80 series where to buy, what to look out for

[pangaea]

Maybe its the bad influence of all the Toyota folks on this board, but I'm considering picking up an 80 series. :D

Seriously though, its something that I've been considering for quite some time as an addition to the Rovers. I've narrowed the search to either a 96 or a 97. However, I wanted to tap into everyones collective wisdom as to where a good place to pick one up would be. I know I could go over to IH8Mud, but honestly I'd like one that's been well taken care of, and preferably never wheeled before. I plan on outfitting it for serious expedition use, and will probably take it on some long distance trips. Any suggestions other than the typical classifieds, autotrader, etc?

Also, does anyone know what the typical service life is on the 80 series engines. Common TLC gremlins to keep an eye out for mechanically?

[brittan]

Slee has a good "what to look for" doc here:
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/newbie/newbie100.htm
Hope it helps.
I am in the process of picking one up. I just kept my eye on craig's list and the autotrader online. There are a lot of early 90's rigs out there for cheap. I went with the 97.
Good luck.

[kcowyo]

I check Denver's Craigslist everyday, looking for random stuff. Here's a listing of the Cruisers that have been offered lately - Landcruisers for sale in Denver area (http://denver.craigslist.org/cgi-bin/search?areaID=13&subAreaID=0&query=landcruiser&catAbbreviation=car&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max)

The Denver auto page is quite active, much better than Salt Lake City's. I also check 'em on eBay all the time. There have been some good buys on eBay for 80's in the mid-west lately, if you have anyone out that way who can check it for you.

The biggest thing to watch out for, for anyone vehicle shopping right now, whether its an FJ80 with lockers or a 4 cyl Corolla commuter car, is make sure it didn't come from the areas flooded by Katrina & Rita. There will some great deals coming out of the gulf region on used cars, but the deal isn't that great if the car sat underwater for 2 weeks!

[60seriesguy]

Nathan, the availability and price elasticity of 80 series Cruisers has a lot to do with the markets into where they were originally sold into. Remember, the 80 series was very much considered a luxo SUV and marketed as such, despite the "wolf in sheep's clothing" facade. If you're not going to look locally, then focus on affluent suburbs of large cities where they sold high (relative) volumes and where they've since been replaced with newer, more luxurious SUVs by folks that were never interested in their 4wd capabilities and/or longevity.

Shoot for the newest available truck and don't bother with the non locker-equipped versions, in most cases there is very little (if any) price difference during initial purchase, but it will save you a lot of hassle and/or over $1,000+ worth of lockers later.

The 80 series (and I'm sure Schott's coming after me for this) was the high water mark of the Land Cruiser's offroad design and it takes very little (cheap coil lift, skidplate, sliders, a couple of bumpers and some decent tires) to set them up for serious off road use. There is a LOT of expedition-oriented aftermarket support for them as well, it's an excellent platform for the type of four wheeling you do.

Good luck and let us know if we can help with specific details. The 80 Series section on www.ih8mud.com is a great source of information for the model, make sure to check the archives of this very active group.

[ShottsCruisers]

Shoot for the newest available truck and don't bother with the non locker-equipped versions, in most cases there is very little (if any) price difference during initial purchase, but it will save you a lot of hassle and/or over $1,000+ worth of lockers later.

The 80 series (and I'm sure Schott's coming after me for this) was the high water mark of the Land Cruiser's offroad design and it takes very little (cheap coil lift, skidplate, sliders, a couple of bumpers and some decent tires) to set them up for serious off road use. There is a LOT of expedition-oriented aftermarket support for them as well, it's an excellent platform for the type of four wheeling you do.

HA! I can't come after you for that. It's true. For severe off-roading the 80 was the apex in the line. I can come after you though for mis-spelling my name.

As for insisting on lockers? I agree IF you don't plan to re-gear. If you're going to regear (and I'm sure he is) then adding ARB lockers only costs you the parts.
For me it was MOST important that I get a truck from a dry climate. I did not want anything near snow or oceans, etc. I found that '97 Lexus without lockers and had to buy it. It lived in AZ, it's immaculate, and I'm not sad it doesn't have lockers. Obviously if you can find a locked one you're better off, BUT, I'd not trade a non-locked AZ-mobile for a locked road salt, ocean-spray mobile. My '93 was from Lincoln, NE. Won't EVER buy from that climate again (especially an 8-year old truck!).

[pangaea]

Thanks for the help everyone. I agree, the 80 series seems like an expedition rig. I think that thing that really helped me get the bug to pick one up, was that I recently helped outfit a couple of 80 ser trucks for a big expedition across Africa.

Seeing the actual dimensions on the truck, the huge cargo area, the mechanical reliability that comes with a Toyota, etc kind of put me over the edge.

Actually, my deep dark dirty secret is that I was doing a trip in Africa a couple of years ago, and one of our LR 110s broke. The rental company replaced it with a Land Cruiser. Since the trip was filled with a bunch of Rover nuts, I was the one who got "stuck" driving the Cruiser. Long story short, I was really impressed with Toyotas from that moment on.

[pangaea]

One more question: Is anyone aware of any long term issues with the mechanical reliability of the viscous coupling t-case on the 94-97 Cruisers during extended arduous use? Personally, I'm a bigger fan of traditional t-cases for a number of reasons (mechanical reliability being paramount).

[pangaea]

I check Denver's Craigslist everyday, looking for random stuff. Here's a listing of the Cruisers that have been offered lately -
The Denver auto page is quite active, much better than Salt Lake City's.

Great idea. Handn't even thought about there. Pretty decent collection, all things considered.


The biggest thing to watch out for, for anyone vehicle shopping right now, whether its an FJ80 with lockers or a 4 cyl Corolla commuter car, is make sure it didn't come from the areas flooded by Katrina & Rita. There will some great deals coming out of the gulf region on used cars, but the deal isn't that great if the car sat underwater for 2 weeks!

Good point. That's definitely something to keep an eye out for. I know what level of salinity the tidal surges introduced to that area, but any extended amount of time sitting in the water can't be good for it.

[GeoRoss]

I can't give you any real info on the T-case reliability.

As to finding an LC, patience is the word of the day. If you are convinced that you need e-lockers, take a double dose of patience as I think I saw on ih8mud they represent less than 10% of the LC's sold in NA. I personally would stay away from those in the rust belt. Mine had spent the majority of its life in AZ. I have had to replace alot of the rubber, but the payoff is when I removed the stock running boards I didn't need PB blaster, breaker bars or need to worry about busting a bolt/nut. They came off like butta.

Take a very careful look at the cooling system and signs of abuse. Some would say that one of the weak links with the FZJ's is that if the cooling system is not taken care of, there is an increase in overheating and head gasket failure. I have no personal experience on this and I'm just parroting what I have distilled from mud.

Ross

[pangaea]

I can't give you any real info on the T-case reliability.

As to finding an LC, patience is the word of the day. If you are convinced that you need e-lockers, take a double dose of patience as I think I saw on ih8mud they represent less than 10% of the LC's sold in NA.

Interesting that it was such a small percentage. But I do think I'd rather wait for an e-locker equipped vehicle... As to patience, I've got plenty of that, thanks to the weather-imposed four wheeling season here in Colorado.

[Scott Brady]

Nathan,

We will keep an eye out for you here in AZ. There are many 80 series available in Prescott (mountain town, wealthier demographic, snow).

Having spent thousands of miles on the trail with the FZJ80's, they are most impressive. If I could have bought a new one in 2004, it would be in my driveway.

Make sure to search for the Lexus (LX450) variant too, as they are only re-badged.

[pangaea]

Scott,

Thanks I appreciate it. Here in Colorado, they use Mag Chlor on the roads instead of salt in the winter, but I'm not convinced that's any improvemnt. A Southern vehicle would certainly be nice.

[MaddBaggins]

I haven't heard any xfer case issues and I know guys with rigs over 200k. Birfs need to be maintained every 60-70k, if they haven't been don't fear, they aren't grossly expensive for new ones. If you buy one, before wheeling with it DO take care of this http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=6994
and http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/tz_heater_hose.htm
This is known as the PHH - pesky heater hose. It has a habit of blowing after 100k or so letting loose all you coolant. The reason it is pesky is that it is difficult to get to.You don't want that to go while in the boonies.
Otherwise, if it looks good and sounds good, it prolly is good.
Oh, the 91-94 models have a beefier transmission than the 95-97 models and the 91-92 models have a weeker engine than the 93-97 models.
Good luck and welcome to the darkside :D

[riverguide]

Nathan I've got a white 4runner and it says toyota on it, looks really cool, has some sweet tires, doesn't have birfs or phh's, has a locker and some cool looking seat covers. I'm sure with some extra work I could make it look like an 80 series for you, then we can just trade "my 80" for your sweet disco..How's that sound? ;)

EDIT: and how could I forget. It's got 6 new lugs and lug nuts! what a deal.

[blupaddler]

Nathan...

Everyone has pretty much summed up the important issues.
1. Lockers...get them. Most people don't even know what that "little" switch is for.
2. Head Gasket (more common on later models 95-97)
3. PHH
4. Birfs, either make sure PO has done it or do it yourself (better of the two)
5. Cooling issues more associated with later years 1995-1997, the 1993-1994 have a 3 row radiator (I think). People with the superchargers have to really be aware of this.
6. My 94 and some others have issues with floor heat on the passenger side front, and the rear under the second row seats on long trips. Some say it dissapates with Heat shielding under the floor mats.
7. Slee is a wealth of information, as is ih8mud. Check out them for more information.

That's all I can think of...for now.
I will keep an eye out for you in the San Diego area. Let me know what years you are looking for and your price range.

:jump:

[pskhaat]

I'm considering picking up an 80 series.

Welcome to the dark side!

Well, these are only my opinions, and I get :campfire:'d left and right for this on Mud, but I would very seriously consider a 1991/1992 80 series. Here's why (sorry if I'm repeating myself from the other thread):

1. Price is right. You can often find equally driven trucks from the 91/92 compared to the 93/97s, at a fraction of the price.

2. The 1FZ-FE engine in the 93-97s is a FANTASTIC engine, don't get me wrong, but...it is prone to head gasket failure at about 80k on the old faulty gasket (they've since been redesigned). It also has heater hose problems where the rubber cracks from being too close to the block. $3 in parts can leave you stranded if you can't get your arms in that tight hot engine area.

3. FJ80s (91/92) are simpler on electronics (like ECU) and much easier to repair in the field. Is this likely to happen, no, but we are talking about expedition use here.

4. 15" wheel option. 93-97 you HAVE to run 16"+ wheels. Tire selection is drastically improved. With this you also get vented front backing plates on the 93-97s you don't.

5. Back-compatibility with the earlier model land cruiser engines like gaskets, the BLOCK, bellhousings, distributors (if you had to replace it), plugs, etc, etc.

6. Engine was shared with the earlier 62 series.

7. 91/92 has a timing GEAR not a timing chain.

8. Condsidered in some circles a superior commercial tranny

9. Engine cooling fan to prevent vapor lock in really hot places.

10. Can troubleshoot engine codes through the dash lights (95+ you can't due to OBD).

11. You can put in a manual adjust distributor to take advantage of poor fuel locales.

12. R12 AC.

But most important is a 91/92 FJ80 can take advantage of all the other aftermarket mods for an FZJ80. There are tradeoffs though:

- Semi Floating rear vs Full Floater (not that big a deal)

- Not as much HP (but it does have a lower torque curve).

- No factory lockers in the US. As Shotts said, if you plan to regear, this is NOT an issue really.

If I were stuck in the bush, I'd probably take an FJ80 over an FZJ80. Now EVERYONE will tell you otherwise because most people like the increased HP, but if my life depended on it, I'd prefer the pushrod, single under-head cam simple tractor engine vs. the highly-computerized double overhead cam timing chain, ``how does this work?'' Again, don't get me wrong, I love my 1996 FZJ80, but I've always debated a FJ80 for my great Expedition when the kids are older.

Oh yeah, if you're really sick, you can MORE easily bolt on a manual tranny from a 1976+ vehicle and part-time 4WD where the 93+ is a lot more difficult to do.

Anyway to sum up, you'd be suprised that you can find some low-mileage FJ80s available simply as the FZJ80 was much more road-worthy and saw quite a bit more miles on average.

[blupaddler]

Is the 12AC better? I thought, or have been told the R134 is easier to refill and colder. Maybe I am just confused.

Other benefit of earlier model...Cloth seats. The leather that Toyota used sucks! Most people have cracks and the leather is wearing out. I think you can also change over to a 5spd manual on the 91-92. There is also a manual front hub conversion, allows you to go part-time.

;)

[Scott Brady]

Well, these are only my opinions, and I get :campfire:'d left and right for this on Mud, but I would very seriously consider a 1991/1992 80 series. Here's why (sorry if I'm repeating myself from the other thread):

Anyway to sum up, you'd be suprised that you can find some low-mileage FJ80s available simply as the FZJ80 was much more road-worthy and saw quite a bit more miles on average.

I have certainly been enlightened...

The auto tranny is legendary in those years. Supposedly from a big bus.

[MaddBaggins]

The 93-94 Fzj80 also have the bigger tranny. and I have only heard a couple of people on the 80 tech board say they have had head gasket problems. I have 128k on mine with no problem.

[pangaea]

If I were stuck in the bush, I'd probably take an FJ80 over an FZJ80. Now EVERYONE will tell you otherwise because most people like the increased HP, but if my life depended on it, I'd prefer the pushrod, single under-head cam simple tractor engine vs. the highly-computerized double overhead cam timing chain, ``how does this work?'' Again, don't get me wrong, I love my 1996 FZJ80, but I've always debated a FJ80 for my great Expedition when the kids are older.


Thanks for the insight. Thats definitely food for thought... I "thought" that I had decided on a 95-97, but now I'm not so sure. The reliability and ability to field fix is certainly an important thing for an expedition rig... Plus, the cost savings could go towards a diesel conversion later on ;-)

:smileeek:

[pskhaat]

the cost savings could go towards a diesel conversion later on

Well, I'll tempt you a little more in that a 2H or 12HT (4.2 cyl Toy diesel, and turbo version, respectively) bolts right in the F-series' (91/92) engine mounts and IIRC the bellhousing too :-)

[pskhaat]

Is the 12AC better? I thought, or have been told the R134 is easier to refill and colder.

I think it's DEFINETELY easier to refill (as r12 I think requires an EPA-cert'd person to refill) , but I personally think r12 cools much better than the r134a.

[ShottsCruisers]

One thought regarding the insistance on having Factory Lockers. I write this because I was insistant on having them too. I'd not look at any truck that didn't have them. I ended up buying a Lexus that DIDN'T have them. Here was my thinking:

If you're going to 4-wheel the thing then 35's are going on. When you do this you can either drive a total slug (my '93), or re-gear.

If you re-gear the cost I was just quoted was $2200+ figuring the gears, labor, and all the install-parts stuff.

At the same time I do gears I can add ARB lockers and the total went to $3800. So, that's $1600 for lockers.

I bought my AZ-only Lexus for $10,500. I see them going for $14-16,000 with lockers though most are from rusty areas. Add in my $1600 expense for lockers and I'm way ahead and I have stronger diffs at the $12,100 mark.

Just another angle on what to look for. :beer:

[pskhaat]

Yep, I'm seeing things like this in AZ:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=188801441&dealer_id=56868563&car_year=1991&search_type=both&make=TOYOTA&sponsorModel=&transmission=&distance=100&model=LC&address=85255&make2=sel_one&certified=&advanced=y&max_mileage=&max_price=&bkms=1132260202702&sort_type=mileageASC&min_price=&end_year=1992&color=&start_year=1991&drive=&isp=y&engine=&doors=&fuel=&lang=en&cardist=34

This is under the $5k range. Even in the worst case, you can get a completely rebuilt (with increased displacement from an FJ60 block) engine, plus lift, lockers, gearing, bull bars, tires, and the works for less than most 1995+ locked FZJ80s.

[blupaddler]

I like the ideas and simplicity of the earlier models...

However, the older the vehicle, the more problems you are going to typically have wrong with it. I know it is a Toyota. But, things wear, and a lot of the time you end fixing "little" things. A newer vehicle is "new." This will especially be brought out by modding and adding new stress to areas that were never stressed before.

Just thought, I'd throw another wrench into the process. ;)


Great discussion though.

:clapsmile

[Desertdude]

Find a 97 with the lowest miles locked or unlocked - you will not be disappointed at all... a 52K vehicle for a 1/4 of the price ;)

OK - hang with me here:

(Metal spiritual energy section) - I visualized one for nearly 8 months - an 80 with low low miles in my possession not wheeled or perverted ( ok ...gold bling aside ;)

Here is your mantra - " I see myself driving a late model low milage 80 series landcruiser and I will help someone out of their jam" - Tap into the cruiser source in your mind as I did. Someone out there needs to rid themselves of the vehicle and there you are with the cash - "a fair exchange"

Finding a mint 40K mile 80 series is pure heaven :victory:

you can do it too :D

[pangaea]

Well, I'll tempt you a little more in that a 2H or 12HT (4.2 cyl Toy diesel, and turbo version, respectively) bolts right in the F-series' (91/92) engine mounts and IIRC the bellhousing too :-)

b*st*rd... you're not helping with the decision here. :D

Those diesel engines are awesome...

It is a tough decision. I'd love to have a disel powered rig, which would be far easier to do pre OBD II. Then again, there is something to be said for lower miles and a newer vehicle....

I may have to try Desertdude's mantra. I just hope that the Rover mojo doesn't get in the way.

[Life_in_4Lo]

Pangaea,
We had a LR Disco 2 with us on the Death Valley trip (this year he is coming again- albeit with some lockers this time!).

Coming from a more modern ride, I limited my search to 96-97. Power is a consideration, even the 1FZ is no speedster. Also the full-floater axles were after 94+ I think? That is pretty important to me.

I will have to say that a rare find like Pasquale's is, well, rare! It is special indeed. It is def. the way to go if you can find one. However, the penalty is not as great imo, for a higher mileage rig compared to 'normal' vehicles. Quality of previous owner's maintence goes a long way.

Having wrenched on it now, it is built stout. Things they simply do not do anymore in construction, the 80 has it. It is also very easy to work on.

I read somewhere that the 80's design parameter was to be built for 300,000 miles of offroad service. Whether that's true, I don't know but it doesn't seem far from the truth.

Around here, the LX450's typically have lower mileage/and or are cleaner. They also have minor upgrades like higher grade leather. Identical rigs so if you don't mind the body cladding, you can spread the net to look for them too.

[calamaridog]

I was in the market last year for a 96-97 LX450 or LC. They are wonderful vehicles and there are some real nice ones in Southern California and AZ market. Most of these vehicles have mostly fwy miles and have never seen dirt roads.

When you are ready to buy, I'm sure theses forum members will spread their wings and help you out.

I have looked at several vehicles for members of IH8MUD in the Southern California area and reported back to them regarding the actual condition of the vehicles. One guy had me take the vehicle to my mechanic after I told him it warrented further consideration. He ended up buying the vehicle and flying out from TX to pick it up.

The point I am making is that you can find a vehicle in awesome condition if you use your resources and spend the time to do it. There really are some cherry older vehicles owned and maintained by crazed maintenance fanatics.

I ended up with a newer 2000 UZJ100, as a compromise with my wife. What I've found is there was no compromise made, but that is another thread.

Happy hunting.

[pskhaat]

Yep, actually 1,200,000 miles over a 30 year duty life. This allots ~300,000 between 3 rebuilds.

The duty life is HARD work though, rarely what we all with put on it. 300,000 miles of commercial and off-road use is impressive. The block has enough guts for 3 rebuilds. I think (CMIIW) this is the case for all LC engines through 1997. I'm not sure what the duty is on the 2UZ-FE as it's original intention was not solely the LC.

FF rears were 93-97, funny the 100 series is back to SF 98+

[Desertdude]

Life_in_4Lo picked up a super sweet LX450 - that looks new inside and out.

they are out there - we'll keep an eye out for you :)

[Life_in_4Lo]

Yep, actually 1,200,000 miles over a 30 year duty life. This allots ~300,000 between 3 rebuilds.

The duty life is HARD work though, rarely what we all with put on it. 300,000 miles of commercial and off-road use is impressive. The block has enough guts for 3 rebuilds. I think (CMIIW) this is the case for all LC engines through 1997. I'm not sure what the duty is on the 2UZ-FE as it's original intention was not solely the LC.

FF rears were 93-97, funny the 100 series is back to SF 98+

That is an amazing factoid.
Well, as long as you keep the rubber bits&pieces up to snuff it sounds like a lifetime rig!

[Life_in_4Lo]

Life_in_4Lo picked up a super sweet LX450 - that looks new inside and out.


Yes, I absolutely love it!
:D

[pangaea]

That is an amazing factoid.
Well, as long as you keep the rubber bits&pieces up to snuff it sounds like a lifetime rig!

You're right, that is a pretty amazing service life... I wonder what it would be for the diesel rigs, those lumps seem to run forever.