The right vehicle for me

[txsurfer]

I have been browsing the forums for a bit, and I like the stuff I have seen here. What I want to ask you guys is what is the right offroad vehicle for me to build, I will provide the details and budget, you guys tell me your honest opinions.

The vehicle will be able to travel great distance, a true expedition vehicle. I plan on driving into Mexico and Central America (possibly ship to south america as well) a lot in the next upcoming 10 years. I dont want something too big, as gas will do nothing but steadily get more expensive. I would prefer something around 15mpg or better, 25 would rock :)
I dont want something all sleeping and cooking, I can camp for that. I dont mind sleeping on the ground. I want to be able to carry surfboards and a decent amount of luggage, but being a "backpacker" by nature, I can pack light.

I want to buy the vehicle and start my work on it, possibly topping out at around 9K if possible. I dont need all the crazy rock climing stuff, or mudding stuff. I just want good offroad on medium duty trails. Most of the roads I will be exploring in Central America wont require anything too major. I dont know anything about "lockers" and all that, so feel free to point me to a guide or something.

Cars I have been considering, early 90's Rodeo. Late 80's-93 4runner. 90-95 Cherokee. 80-93 toyota Pickup. Early 90's Pathfinder. Ok guys, have at it. If you can, give me your opinions on strengths/weaknesses of each I meantion if you know of any. I knwo this is a hard question, but I just want to see all of your opinions on this. Just please keep in mind my 4wd requirments. Thanks!

[BKCowGod]

Personally I am a huge fan of the pre-honda/GM small Isuzu (89-95 rodeo/pickup). My ride has all of your requirements and cost under $5k including all mods (current and future)... That would leave you some nice money in the bank for cameras, breakdowns, food, and a more ambitious trip schedule. You will get plenty of good advice from this group... Just sharing something a bit unorthodox that has worked well for me. Oh - 25mpg is easily attainable in a pickup with the 4-banger.

edited to include strengths & weaknesses: short range w/stock tank, underpowered for passing situations, hard to find a nice one. Parts are cheap and plentiful, diesel engine bolts right in, the chassis was used for a bunch of vehicles, it blends in almost anywhere...
http://www.kuhgott.com/temp/truck/rackrear.JPG

[Sgt Grunt]

Toyota seems to be very popular in Central and South America, also I would go with gas vs. diesel. Maybe a 90 's Toy pick up with a topper.

[Brian894x4]

I would have picked a Land Cruiser '93-97, but you're gas mileage and price sort of rules that out.

IMO, and not having made such a trip, the two things I'd want most for a rig going that far would be reliability and servicablity. Toyotas got you covered for reliability. For servicbility, I'd want something within your requirements that can be found in Mexico, Central and South America so parts would be easier to find. So in that case, I think I'd go with a 4runner, any year up to about 1995 and opt for a 22RE and 5 speed. Or a truck of the same generation with a canopy if you're going by yourself or with just one other person.

A 4runner will be more comfortable, but a truck will be able to carry more gear without the rear seat and extra weight of the 4Runners.

To me, overall comfort, luxery, power, etc, are all secondary, when you're going that far and that remote.

Just my opinion.

[Scott Brady]

1995 Long Bed (not sure if the LB is available that year) Toyota Truck with the 22RE and manual transmission.

Perfect solution and low key, reliable and 20+ mpg.

Install 30x9.5 AT tires on it and new shocks (OME would be great), then figure out your load and get a good spring pack for the rear.

Set the bed up like the Baja Taco mobile (www.bajataco.com).

Your 9k will be spent by then.

[Bergger]

1995 Long Bed (not sure if the LB is available that year) Toyota Truck with the 22RE and manual transmission.

Perfect solution and low key, reliable and 20+ mpg.

Install 30x9.5 AT tires on it and new shocks (OME would be great), then figure out your load and get a good spring pack for the rear.

Set the bed up like the Baja Taco mobile (www.bajataco.com).

Your 9k will be spent by then.

I too would opt for this choice. You'll be able to carry more gear and still be able to sleep more safely/convienently in the bed. I believe 1993 was the last year Toyota offer a long box (7' bed) option on the 4x4 so I'd look for one of these. 1992 ended it on the 4x2. My neighbor has a white 1991 4x4 long box and its a great truck! I would definitely opt for the 22RE with manual. The 3.0 6 cyl does not give you enough benefits in the power dept to off set the lose in gas mileage and the potential head gasket issue. Good luck and keep us informed.

[Ryanmb21]

there was a great thread where a $15K expedition vehicle was debated, I know you specified $9K but you might find some value in this great thread:

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2200&highlight=expedition+%2415K

[pskhaat]

Toy truck sounds just about right :) Folks here have travelled south much more than I, but if I may suggest some 16" Toyota wheels and 238/85r16 (http://tinyurl.com/cvlm5) which are your super-common international tire size.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Of course I agree with the Toyota 4Runner/truck picks! and especially the 22RE Engine!

If I were to do this again, I would have selected a 1985 4Runner with the 22RE. You get the solid front axle and a bullet proof engine that anyone can work on easily (especially for your trip south!). It seats 5 when you have the need. The seats fold down flat for camping/exploring. I think it's still one of the best all around choices out there! And I just Love the short wheel base and narrow tight trail abilities!


25MPG! ~~>http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/bymodel/1985_Toyota_4Runner.shtml


From stock to Rock in just $9,000.............!:beer:


clickit! ~> http://www.off-road.com/toyota/readers_rides/2003_08/

stock 1985 Toyota 4Runner....in almost "ExPo white".......
http://toyota.off-road.com/toyota/data/articlestandard/toyota/532005/274515/2.jpg

.

[cruiser guy]

I would agree with the 4Runner as well with the caution that ANY Toyota 4Runner or pickup tend to be carjacker magnets! They are common and easy to service in Central America (like having a Chevy 350 up here) but are also much desired.
If you go to an older LandCruiser like mine, they are also easily serviced but are not as common and not such a desired item by the car jackers.
Make no mistake, the car jackers in Central America are packing guns and they are NOT afraid to use them. I know of several people PERSONALLY who have been carjacked at gun point one of whom was shot in the leg just for kicks AFTER surrendering his vehicle!!

[pskhaat]

Curious, why would an LC make it less desirable? One would think the converse: it more desirable due to its rarity?

[txsurfer]

Im really liking the feedback im getting on this topic. Yes I have already checked out the building an expedition vehicle for under or around 15K. I did get some ideas, but everyone was right at or near 15K. 9K for me is already pushing it.

I could hang on to my RAV4, even though its only 2wd I have gotten that car in some places I didnt think I could. Its small size helps great when stuck it tight spots. It gets around 28mpg and I could possibly bump that a little. I just want something thats mainly going to last. My RAV4 will, but I will be needing to possibly rebuild my tranny very soon. O well... keep em coming guys!
btw , i just found this on houston craigslist
http://houston.craigslist.org/car/237240721.html

[cruiser guy]

Curious, why would an LC make it less desirable? One would think the converse: it more desirable due to its rarity?

It's not that it's a less desirable vehicle, they are not stealing them to use them, they are stealing them to strip them. The Land Cruiser is less common therefore it is harder to get rid of the parts and they won't sell for as much. I get looks all the time at my PTO winch but I've not yet had any carjacker issues.

The 4Runner and pickup are VERY common so it's easy to sell the parts. The 22R is even more common than a Chevy 350 here and EVERYONE who doesn't have one, want's one (not the situation with a Chevy 350)!

You'd need to see the way used parts are sold in Guatemala to know that selling parts that have been stripped is VERY easy. You wouldn't know if the used parts you're buying are stolen or not the way things are done there. I'd assume that the other countries are the same.

Also, do not expect much help from the local police in finding the vehicle AND there is no theft insurance available in Guatemala for non-Guatemalan registered vehicles (my insurance in Central America covers me from Guatemala to Costa Rica with the exception of Mexico, Belize and Panama and does NOT have theft coverage :( )! I've considered a GPS alarm to allow me to locate my vehicle if it is stolen but I have not been able to get answers to the questions I have. Questions like, a: does the GPS alarm website in the states, from say Omega, actually report a Central American location or does their system say the results are invalid because they are outside of the USA/Canada? b: how, exactly does the system work when I am outside of North American cell coverage since, from what I understand, many of these systems utilize the cell system (Central America is on a different cell system).

[Brian894x4]

Im really liking the feedback im getting on this topic. Yes I have already checked out the building an expedition vehicle for under or around 15K. I did get some ideas, but everyone was right at or near 15K. 9K for me is already pushing it.

I'd be interested what folks who've made the journey have to say, but I personally would be nervous limiting my vehicle budget to that amount, including (I assume) vehicle, equipment and any needed repairs and servicing. It's one thing to drive thousands of miles across the U.S., it's quite another to drive thousands of miles in a foreign 3rd world country over mostly back country roads in places where parts and service are non-existent.

I wonder the options would be as far as renting a vehicle for a few months. At least that way, if it got stolen, wrecked or broke down, you wouldn't necessarily be out a personal vehicle, and you'll still have money left over to ship yourself home.

[flyingwil]

I would have picked a Land Cruiser '93-97, but you're gas mileage and price sort of rules that out.

IMO, and not having made such a trip, the two things I'd want most for a rig going that far would be reliability and servicablity. Toyotas got you covered for reliability. For servicbility, I'd want something within your requirements that can be found in Mexico, Central and South America so parts would be easier to find. So in that case, I think I'd go with a 4runner, any year up to about 1995 and opt for a 22RE and 5 speed. Or a truck of the same generation with a canopy if you're going by yourself or with just one other person.

A 4runner will be more comfortable, but a truck will be able to carry more gear without the rear seat and extra weight of the 4Runners.

To me, overall comfort, luxery, power, etc, are all secondary, when you're going that far and that remote.

Just my opinion.

:iagree: Toyota is the way to go for parts, especially the older ones that are not so US based.

[cruiser guy]

I'd be interested what folks who've made the journey have to say, but I personally would be nervous limiting my vehicle budget to that amount, including (I assume) vehicle, equipment and any needed repairs and servicing. It's one thing to drive thousands of miles across the U.S., it's quite another to drive thousands of miles in a foreign 3rd world country over mostly back country roads in places where parts and service are non-existent.

I wonder the options would be as far as renting a vehicle for a few months. At least that way, if it got stolen, wrecked or broke down, you wouldn't necessarily be out a personal vehicle, and you'll still have money left over to ship yourself home.

First off, there is NO rental agency that will rent you a vehicle for that kind of travel. I'd think the reasons are obvious, one only needs to think why we are hesitant to take our vehicles! You CAN rent a vehicle in each of the individual countries but rentals in the third world are EXPENSIVE and generally are not unlimited mileage!

When one looks for a vehicle for this sort of travel (and I've done this 4-5 times to Guatemala and southern Mexico) with forays into Honduras and ElSalvador, you need a vehicle that cosmetically does NOT attract attention so a new vehicle, in my opinion, is out. An older vehicle, that is mechanically reliable is the vehicle you want in my opinion. You don't need $1,000's of dollars of equipment unless you are really going off road. Any repairs needed in those countries are very reasonable especially for those who are used to paying $70/hr. and up.

When I make the trip I carry some spare parts and I spent 6 months prior to my first trip fixing EVERYTHING that I could find as a problem in my rig. I carry a set of hoses, belts, injectors (I drive a diesel), filters, oil, fuel, and air and if it was a long trip I'd take brake pads as well (third world brake components are TRASH). As for availability of parts, you'd be pleasantly surprised if you drive a vehicle that is common in those countries. Many towns will have several "refractioneras" or "repuestos" that sell everything. Remember that folks down there do NOT maintain thier vehicles well and therefore the locals are breaking down all the time so parts are easy to come by but generally of poor quality, which is why you bring your own common parts.

You want your truck running like a fine Swiss watch before you leave and who cares about looks!

I'll probably be through Gresham in the spring on my way south if you want to chat.:eatchicke

p.s. The picture in my avitar is on the north coast of Honduras this past April. It's at the end of the recognized road (well east of Trujillo), after that it's driving on the beach and through the rivers or creeks as you come to them!

[txsurfer]

After roaming Mexico this summer on a bus that I took starting in Houston, I have to say I dont feel at all threatened in that country. I have been to Costa Rica as well, where I felt even more safe. (actually ran into 2 girls from Canada backpacking/hitchiking the whole country by themselves)
I lived out of my backpack and a tent for the better part of 2.5 weeks until I met a guy from california renting a small house ($125usd a month!) and he let me stay with him for $5usd a night.
Someone told me this and I saw the evidence of such when I was there. Mexican/Central American mechanics are some of the best in the world. Because of the lack of availability of parts, they are masters are repairing what they have, plain and simple. I remember when I was in Costa, I was walking down the road and I head this truck from a distance coming up the mountainside, very laborous. It was a 1940-1950's something or other Bedford dually truck with a flat bed in the back with railings. It was piled WAAAAAAY high with bananas and coconuts. Later that week I saw this very same truck broken down with a jacked control arm or something. To think that very same vehicle is probably stick trucking it back and forth from the plantation to the market amazes me, ESPECIALLY for the area I was in, very very remote, not an ATM in sight for 1.5 hours.

I threw up a post in "Expedition Vehicles: Other" about an 84 toyota van with 245K miles I found here in Houston i could probably buy for around 400bucks. I am still considering buying that and driving it all through Mexico. If it breaks down to the point of "no buneo", ill leave her where she lies, and take the bus till my vacation is done.

I understand the Toyota (hotness) down south, I saw a lot of them. That does deter me away from a Toyota based vehicle, but I dont think I will let it stop me. I wonder if my 97 Toyota RAV4 is too new looking??? All this vehicle madness could potentially cut my trip seriously short :(

Cruiser Guy, Gresham Texas up by Tyler?? What road are you taking south? I live in north Houston, but yea sure, Id meet yea up. I would love to pick your brain on the Guatemala subjects for a while, ohh and El Salvador as well :)

[cruiser guy]

The Rav4 is probably not too bad from an appearance point of view, it's pushing 10 years old. My concern is the electronics. You saw yourself that they have the old stuff going. The new electronics confuses them and I've seen them snip wires until it "runs better". That sort of mentality would bother me if it were my car.

Your impressions of Central American mechanics and mine are a little different. There are not many Central American mechanics that I'd allow to play under the hood of my truck! I work at a school in Guatemala and teach shop, including autoshop. I bought a '67 Toyota Land Cruiser that the class is restoring and some of the "repairs" on that truck make me glad I didn't know about them when I drove it from the place I bought it back to the school!! Things like chaffed flexible brake lines that were "fixed" with electrical tape and I could go on!

Are you aware that when you take a vehicle into Mexico you are required to post a bond that says that you GUARANTEE to take that vehicle back out of Mexico and failure to do that means that you will be charged penalties and duties as if you imported the vehicle AS WELL AS be prohibited from coming in with a vehicle again! Leaving a dead vehicle at the side of the road is NOT an option, or at least not a cheap option.

We'll be going through Gresham, OREGON, a suburb to the east of Portland. We have friends there. The closest we get to Houston is ElPaso!

If I were travelling through Mexico ONLY I would be looking at Nissan rather than Toyota because Nissan is much better supported. Mexico used to allow ONLY vehicles to be sold who's makers also had manufacturing facilities in Mexico. That was the "Big 3", Volkswagen and Nissan. Nissan had factories and Toyota did not. Toyota is relatively new in Mexico for new vehicles but the pickups have been coming in for YEARS as U.S imports.

[txsurfer]

Well.... thats some disheartening news about the non importation allowed again. I thought I would just be out my 200-300 I post for and thats it. Hrmmmm.

The crazy thing about the mechanics I cant figure out is it all seems to depend on your area. When I was in Monterrey visiting my "well to do" Mexican friends, I couldnt believe the amount of BMW and Mercedes I saw everywhere! Even saw a ferrari and a Lambo while I was there. I would certainly trust getting my car worked on there, but I would be willing to bet, its close to US labor costs.

My travels right now will be Mexico and Guatemala primarily, but I have intentions to go as far south as Panama and possibly even ship into Colombia in the future. I will need to build something close to bulletproof reliability. I would prefer to be able to refer to a mechanic as not even an option. I did a little reading last night on rebuilding 22re's and it seems pretty straight forward. Now I just have to follow through with this, and start figuring it out. Sometimes it almost seems more of a hassle than worth it for all this lovely vehicle crap. When I find a decent way to mount my surfboards to a motorcycle to protect them during a fall, Ill be heading outa here on moto bike!

Cruiser, How do you like Guatemala??? I have heard nothing but good things so far. I watch/post on www.horizonsunlimited.com often, those guys go EVERYWHERE on motorcycles and they frequent Guatemala pretty often. How many times has your rig been subject to "down south" mechanics?? Is the Isuzu Rodeo a viable option for Central America?

[Scott Brady]

Just get the federale's to notate the vehicle loss and the specific reason on a police report along with the importation sticker. You will still loose the importation fee ($275 the last I remembered), but will not have your Passport number flagged.

[cruiser guy]

Cruiser, How do you like Guatemala??? I have heard nothing but good things so far. I watch/post on www.horizonsunlimited.com often, those guys go EVERYWHERE on motorcycles and they frequent Guatemala pretty often. How many times has your rig been subject to "down south" mechanics?? Is the Isuzu Rodeo a viable option for Central America?

My vehicle is NEVER at the mercy of a Central American mechanic unless I am in his face ALL the time.
I have had the fuel tank patched by them because I don't want to be an astronaut without a space ship!! I also had the frame swapped out because my frame was getting too bad in the rust department because of the salt on the roads in Canada. For that work was more than I could do myself but I was there and helping ALL the time. I found I had more and better tools in my toolbox than the mechanics shop had!
Other than those two incidents it's just regular oil changes but I'm also there the WHOLE time.
All these times the labor costs were extremely reasonable. My frame swap was under $1000 including the frame, and it was a 5 day, 8 hours a day project!!
An Isuzu Rodeo is also a viable option. Not as common as the Toyota so parts may be a little more difficult but less desirable to the car jackers so safety is likely improved. Isuzu is also not common in Mexico for the same reasons as I mentioned earlier.
We like Guatemala. The weather is great but you do need to be aware that you are looked at as being wealthy and you want to down play that as much as possible, ie: DON'T flaunt it with fancy cars and clothes, expensive cameras and staying in fancy places, but that applies to all travel in my book. We had one attempted break in on our vehicle which destroyed the passenger door lock but that's it in two years! There are still lots of places we want to visit and we hope to hook up with the Guatemalan 4x4 club on their outings as well.

[txsurfer]

I have stumbled on an 88 4runner. Its already lifted, good tires. Manual tranny and rebuilt head but the bottom end has thrown a rod. I have never rebuilt an engine but I am pretty mechanically inclined. If I couldnt do it, how much would a mechanic charge? (just take and estimated guess, I have never had to ask for a price on something like this). Its a 22re.
He wants 1100, I think I can get him to 850 maybe 900.

[cruiser guy]

It depends on what it looks like once opened up. It may not be worth rebuilding if it's damaged internally (crank etc.).
Stay with the 4 banger, very popular in Central America and EASY to find parts.