New Guy from Idaho, future camper build

[IdaSHO]

Hello guys and gals. Occasional lurker, first time poster here.

Ive had the itch to build either a flatbed pickup camper, or a small trailer camper for some time. I have decided strongly against the trailer. Simply because I would rather not limit myself to what I can tow, even when Im camping. In other words, my options are still open to tow something, even with a pickup camper installed.

The rig is my '96 Powerstroke 4x4 Flatbed. Rancher special, as I call it. It is just ugly enough to make people think twice about hogging my lane. And it has the power to pull nearly anything up any grade.

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/temp/PSDtow.jpg

The plan is quite simple. Build an easy to install/remove flat-bottom camper to ride on the flatbed. Other key requirement is if needed, I would like it to remain 100% functional as a camper when off of the truck. Even if that means setting the thing right on the ground. Kind of a 'POD" of sorts. So the camper must be very strong.

Another requirement is the insulation factor. Im gong with a minimum of R12. Depending upon the budget, I may push it to R15. This will be coupled with a radiant shield foil as well. It gets darn cold up here in Northern Idaho. :coffee: So floor, walls, and ceiling will be insulated. And few windows will be used.

Ive been active in the residential and commercial building industry for more than 15 years now. So, instead of looking to some sort of fancy super-lite honeycomb fiberglass wall panels to build the thing, I will be going a little more old-school. It will without a doubt be heavier, but I know it will work, it will more than likely be cheaper, and I dont have to learn a new trade to build the thing. I want to build it once, and do it right the first time.

Im planning on building the structure using a primary skeleton, a steel square tubing cage at all integral strength points.

The walls will be laminate of my choice. Right now Im looking at

3/8ACX - radiant foil shield - R12closed cell rigid foam - hardwood paneling

The outside will be coated entirely with a roofing/deck coating we carry at work called Gaco-roof http://www.gacoretail.com/gacoroof.html If anyone has any feedback on this product, please let me know. Ive heard nothing but good things about it for home building, however.... I hope to use the TAN version.

The interior will be sparse to save space. A "full" bed for the wife and I, a bench seat, table, and various cabinets for storage. There will be room enough for a small counter with sink, and if we feel the need, a closet for a porta-potty can be added.

Anywho.... here is what I have on paper so far.

The flatbed is a full 86" x 96", and the cab sits 32 inches above the deck.

Side
http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/camper/camperdraw03.jpg

Back
http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/camper/camperdraw01.jpg

Floorplan
http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/camper/camperdraw02.jpg

[Redline]

I like it.

1996 Power Stroke is a great truck.

Welcome :)

[fisher205]

I would HIGHLY recommend a passenger side door instead of out the back. Trust me, if you hit any kind of dirt road especially if it has a little water added you will have a hard time getting in an and out of the back without getting dirty. See www.bimobil.com and Turtle Espeditions for some good example layouts. Also this will allow you to hang all sorts of things off of the back, such as spare tires, bikes, fuel cans. - Brad

[bucketosudz]

Welcome to the Portal!! Nice rig and Ohhh how I miss Northern Idaho. I spent 2 years in CDA and I would go back in a heartbeat. Will be watching your thread.:victory:

[IdaSHO]

Well, Im having too much fun now. I ran across another build thread on this forum that showed some Google Sketchup images.

Im hooked....


Now Im thinking about a hard-side tilt top:victory:

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/Camper/CamperSketch01.jpg

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/Camper/CamperSketch02.jpg

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/Camper/CamperSketch03.jpg

[Bogo]

Good luck with your project. I'm designing a back for a '94 Toyota 4x4 mini truck.

Watching weight is the most important thing. It adds up very fast! Don't forget to consider water, extra fuel, tools, people, food, and luggage.

PS: A bonded together AL/foam/AL wall is light and stiff. Fiberglass skins can make it even lighter. If you have a large enough and truly flat floor it is relatively easy to bond up your own panels. I've considered using liquid nails and regular construction foam, but am worried about the temperatures the regular construction foam can withstand. A horizontal white painted surface of a car or boat at sea level at 35 degrees latitude can reach 220F on a sunny calm day.

Take a look at the thicknesses of walls that the windows you want to use can be mounted in. Motion Windows 1800 Series (http://www.motionwindows.com/prod1800.php) which is double paned can be installed into an up to 3-1/4" thick wall.

[IdaSHO]

Thanks for the suggestions, and the link to the windows.

Ive been running some rough numbers for weight, and I think Im going to rethink things a bit. I scored a bunch of commercial sheetmetal studs that I could use for wall framing (layed flat) and have found a source for 48" wide aluminum roll metal. So, currently thinking a welded sheetmetal framed body, wrapped in aluminum.


So Until I really decide, Ill continue to have fun with this Google Sketchup

Darn addicting!

I like this design though. A lot. Plenty of space, simple hard-side tilt up, and still short enough to fit into my garage (9' tall door)

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/Camper/CamperSketch04.jpg

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/Camper/CamperSketch05.jpg

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/Camper/CamperSketch06.jpg

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/Camper/CamperSketch07.jpg

[Bogo]

The lightest wall I've come up that is affordable is a 0.04" FRP sheet with a 3lbs per cu ft structural foam. That is $15/sq ft for a 1.75" thick foam wall with a weight of about 1.04 lbs/sq ft plus glue. I found a carbon fiber skinned foam board that is much lighter, but at $1000 for 8 sq ft it is unaffordable.:Wow1:

FRP sheet: http://www.tchweb.com/tchstore/product/510-3700/c900/Smooth-Fiberglass-Sheet--Black.html

Foam: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/divinycellfoam.php

This is my design as it looks now. The box in the pictures is not quite as wide as I'm currently planning. It is also drawn with 1" thick walls versus 1.75" thick ones.

Top down:
http://www.nerdvest.com/images/cross-linked/Micro_RV-05-001.png
Top up:
http://www.nerdvest.com/images/cross-linked/Micro_RV-05-001-up.png
Corner construction detail:
http://www.nerdvest.com/images/cross-linked/Corner-detail.jpg
The red sliders will be thinner or absent. Orange is foam, but 1" rather than the 1.75" I'm leaning towards using now. The aluminum corner pieces will be bonded to the panels with auto body adhesives or VHB tape. The outer frames will be welded together at the corners. The inner angle pieces will just be fitted and glued in place. The angles are architectural profile 2"x2"x1/8" aluminum. The curved outer piece is formed by bending 1/8" aluminum plate. The lighter foam at the corner is low expansion window sealing foam from those cans. I'll need to use a longer straw, but that is doable. It will be done after the inner angle is glued and setup. Some conduits will be in there for wiring for side marker lights. At 80" wide it just trips truck marking regulations for USA and Canada.

Even with all this lightening work I'm still looking at 475 to 500 lbs for the box. The interior is 6'9" long and 6' wide. When the top is up it is 6'2" high inside. I'm feeling a bit frustrated as the window I want to use has a frame about 2" thick so I had to go to 1.75" thick walls for it. I was originally looking at 1" thick walls.

The base truck is a '94 Toyota 4x4 Pickup.

[Bogo]

The lightest wall I've come up that is affordable is a 0.04" FRP sheet with a 3lbs per cu ft structural foam. That is $15/sq ft for a 1.75" thick foam wall with a weight of about 1.04 lbs/sq ft plus glue.

It should be possible to use the FRP skins with housing foam wall board insulation sheets and lower the price. It just won't be as strong or able to handle as high of skin temperatures from sun heating.

[krebsatm02]

Bogo, what are you using to seal the sliding part? Have an interior layout yet?

Here's what I'm working with at the moment...

M1010 (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31649)

[Bogo]

Bogo, what are you using to seal the sliding part? Have an interior layout yet?

Here's what I'm working with at the moment...

M1010 (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31649)

Interior is free form. I was going to make boxes that can be latched down to rails on the floor and walls.

For sealing the sliding part there will be two brush style gaskets. One at the top and one at the bottom. When at the top and bottom positions there is only a 1/4" gap. When closed the top will rest on a D style seal that will either be on the top of the base wall or affixed to the bottom of the top's walls and there will then be a ledge for it to seat against. The D seal should keep most road dust out.

[IdaSHO]

your sealing methods are very similar to the plans I have. I really didnt want to deal with a full lift though. The tilt is MUCH easier to build, actuate, and seal. And you dont have the weird door access issues. Just dont get the additional headroom. :ylsmoke:

[Bogo]

your sealing methods are very similar to the plans I have. I really didnt want to deal with a full lift though. The tilt is MUCH easier to build, actuate, and seal. And you dont have the weird door access issues. Just dont get the additional headroom. :ylsmoke:

That hinge could have a flap of EDPM glued over it. That will allow a conventional heavy duty piano hinge to be used. What I'm worried about is keeping blown water while driving out, yet also being able to keep water running off the roof out too. If the hinge point is above the root top I can see how to do it, but if it is at the roof height I can't.

Yep, I concur that tilt is easier to build. I want hard sides and trying to do that on such a small platform as mine using a hinge is difficult. This way also allows me to make it fairly short.

As for the door. I'm divided. I'm tempted not to have one on the top part but I fear that may be a mistake. I'd just put a window there. The sloped part at the bottom will drop down to become a stair. So a person exiting would be first stepping down some, but I don't think that will be enough so I may need the top. I'll mock up the opening and do some walk throughs to see if it will work. If I do have to have a door on the top portion is will be tall enough to allow the door on the bottom to be opened when the top is down.

[boblynch]

I might have been the one to set you on the Google Sketup path. If so, sorry and welcome to the cult. Two features you may find helpful. Layers allow you to assign objects to groups and have the ability to only view the assigned groups rather than the entire sketch. This is very helpful for isolating separate items and checking dimensions. The second one is the Rotate feature. This is good for checking articulation and approach/breakover, and departure angles. Best of luck.

[IdaSHO]

Thanks for the tips! Yes, Im addicted..... very much so! :Wow1:

The layer feature, is that in the free version? or do you have the paid version?

[Bogo]

Window-->Layers

I haven't played with it myself yet.

[fisher205]

Nice work on your camper. It's been fun to watch your ideas evolve on line. I have to say you caught on to Google sketch way faster than I did. Nice work.
-BRad

[63tlf8]

The lightest wall I've come up that is affordable is a 0.04" FRP sheet with a 3lbs per cu ft structural foam. That is $15/sq ft for a 1.75" thick foam wall with a weight of about 1.04 lbs/sq ft plus glue. I found a carbon fiber skinned foam board that is much lighter, but at $1000 for 8 sq ft it is unaffordable.

This is my design as it looks now. The box in the pictures is not quite as wide as I'm currently planning. It is also drawn with 1" thick walls versus 1.75" thick ones.

Corner construction detail:
http://www.nerdvest.com/images/cross-linked/Corner-detail.jpg
The red sliders will be thinner or absent. Orange is foam, but 1" rather than the 1.75" I'm leaning towards using now. The aluminum corner pieces will be bonded to the panels with auto body adhesives or VHB tape. The outer frames will be welded together at the corners. The inner angle pieces will just be fitted and glued in place. The angles are architectural profile 2"x2"x1/8" aluminum. The curved outer piece is formed by bending 1/8" aluminum plate. The lighter foam at the corner is low expansion window sealing foam from those cans. I'll need to use a longer straw, but that is doable. It will be done after the inner angle is glued and setup. Some conduits will be in there for wiring for side marker lights. At 80" wide it just trips truck marking regulations for USA and Canada.

Even with all this lightening work I'm still looking at 475 to 500 lbs for the box. The interior is 6'9" long and 6' wide. When the top is up it is 6'2" high inside. I'm feeling a bit frustrated as the window I want to use has a frame about 2" thick so I had to go to 1.75" thick walls for it. I was originally looking at 1" thick walls.

Hi Bogo,

Interesting how many come up with almost identical concepts completely independently. I'm half way through my construction and it bears quite a resemblance to yours, although it is going on a 404 UNIMOG. Looks like you are going through the same iterations as I did with windows and so on.

I have plenty of spare weight capacity so I went for steel framed lower and GRP over honeycomb for the upper section. The box is 3 Mtr x 2 Mtr. Walls are 30mm lower and 20mm upper. The weight will be some 500 Kg all up with all interior storage, tanks, batteries etc plus actual water, food and clothes. About twice your weight but with a 1500 Kg payload there is plenty in reserve. I'm using GRP bonding angles and epoxy adhesive for joining the corners of the the upper section.

Good luck with your build.

Tony

[IdaSHO]

Thanks for all the responses guys. It really helps to keep the gears turning :ylsmoke:

As for this build...

Im getting there. And with the help of Sketchup, proper planning shouldnt be problem!

This is the right side wall framing. Using lightweight sheetmetal steel studs, 1.5"x5.5" I can get them for cheap at work. They are basically a C-channel steel, in various gauges.

Joints will more than likely be welded and/or pop riveted.

This is shown utilizing a 16" OC rivet frequency for attaching the skin. :chef:

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/Camper/CamperSketch08.jpg

[IdaSHO]

And the last bit done before heading to bed.

The skeleton is done.

Complete with framed in outside access points, main entry door.

Exact window locations are yet to be determined. And since I have moved the sleeping area to above the cab, we now have the option of using the pass-thru rear window on the pickup to gain entry to the camper. :coffeedrink:

I realize that this may be a bit heavy for a true exp-camper, but this truck has a very good payload capacity, and I would much rather this camper be very strong and a bit heavy, than brittle.

Im shooting for a wet weight of 1500 lbs at this point.

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/Camper/CamperSketch09.jpg

[Bogo]

Hi Bogo,

Interesting how many come up with almost identical concepts completely independently. I'm half way through my construction and it bears quite a resemblance to yours, although it is going on a 404 UNIMOG. Looks like you are going through the same iterations as I did with windows and so on.

I have plenty of spare weight capacity so I went for steel framed lower and GRP over honeycomb for the upper section. The box is 3 Mtr x 2 Mtr. Walls are 30mm lower and 20mm upper. The weight will be some 500 Kg all up with all interior storage, tanks, batteries etc plus actual water, food and clothes. About twice your weight but with a 1500 Kg payload there is plenty in reserve. I'm using GRP bonding angles and epoxy adhesive for joining the corners of the the upper section.

Good luck with your build.

Tony

My design is somewhat off of Sönke's hard-side popup camper (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20822). I had originally rejected the idea due to weight before I saw his. After exploring a few other ideas I am now back to the design again, but this time I have a much lighter design.

I chose to use AL angles and plate at the corners because I wanted some impact strength for handling tree branches. I'm figuring allot of my use will be on fire roads.


Thanks for all the responses guys. It really helps to keep the gears turning :ylsmoke:

As for this build...

Im getting there. And with the help of Sketchup, proper planning shouldnt be problem!

This is the right side wall framing. Using lightweight sheetmetal steel studs, 1.5"x5.5" I can get them for cheap at work. They are basically a C-channel steel, in various gauges.

Joints will more than likely be welded and/or pop riveted.

This is shown utilizing a 16" OC rivet frequency for attaching the aluminum skin. :chef:

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/camper/campersketch08.jpg

I don't think a 16" OC rivet frequency will work for a vehicle. Take a look at what they use on semi trailer boxes. They are much closer than 16". Nowadays they don't bother with rivets because gluing with VHB tape is much faster and stronger than riveting. It also leaves a smooth leak free skin. It takes some surface prep time, but that is much less than the drilling and riveting time. Auto body glues can also be used. They are better when the pieces are not as well fitted. That is why I am thinking of using them over the VHB tapes.

Z channels, hat channels, and square tube all provide gluing surfaces for both sides of the wall. They can all be formed to custom by a metal fabricator. Square tubing can be found with very thin walls.

[IdaSHO]

I don't think a 16" OC rivet frequency will work for a vehicle. Take a look at what they use on semi trailer boxes. They are much closer than 16". Nowadays they don't bother with rivets because gluing with VHB tape is much faster and stronger than riveting. It also leaves a smooth leak free skin. It takes some surface prep time, but that is much less than the drilling and riveting time. Auto body glues can also be used. They are better when the pieces are not as well fitted. That is why I am thinking of using them over the VHB tapes.

Z channels, hat channels, and square tube all provide gluing surfaces for both sides of the wall. They can all be formed to custom by a metal fabricator. Square tubing can be found with very thin walls.

Thanks for the concern.

What gauge is typical siding?

The stuff Im looking at is 26 gauge coated STEEL (not aluminum as I previously thought). And typically spans 24"+

[Bogo]

Thanks for the concern.

What gauge is typical siding?

The stuff Im looking at is 26 gauge coated STEEL (not aluminum as I previously thought). And typically spans 24"+

OK, I see. You are referring to 16"OC as the span between studs. I was thinking 16" between rivets. The RV industry uses whatever they need for attaching to, but then they use continuous one piece skins.

Somewhere on the web I ran across an RV repair place where you could order 8' and 9' wide AL skins for repairing RVs. They were available up to 45' long.

Old semi trailer skins, I don't know the thicknesses or materials and I know it varied. Trust me that they were as thin as they thought they could get away with.

Typical semi trailer siding now is a composite. Often only on the order of 1/4" thick. The skin will have surfaces that are either AL or FRP and the core will be a stiff thermally stable plastic. They buy them in sheets large enough to skin the whole side of the trailer as one piece. Yeah, a little awkward for us.

[IdaSHO]

Thanks for the info. Yes, the 16OC is 16" on center between studs.

Interesting stuff, that VHB tape. If the budget allows, I will certainly be using it instead of fasteners. That stuff isnt cheap though!

I got some more work on the renderings.

Seeing that using 6" studs all the way around was very overkill, I downgraded to 4". This will shed some weight, as well as lessen the $$ needed for the skeleton.

I also framed in the two access doors on the drivers side. A rear one primarily for fuel door access, and a front one that will allow access to under the main cabinet, as well as allow a load of storage. I am going to build this with plumbing in mind, even if I dont go for it. I dom however, have immediate plans for propane heat. So I am creating storage space, accessible from the outside for not only a fresh water tank and pump, but also a propane tank and all associated hardware.

Red is the primary, heavy gauge sheetmetal frame.
The remaining skeleton will be done in a much lighter, thinner gauge stud.

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/Camper/CamperSketch10.jpg


And a quick rendering of the interior.

From left to right....

http://www.bonnefinstudios.com/kwb/Camper/CamperSketch11.jpg

Rear storage, full width but narrow. I think this would be a great place for things like snow skis and snowboards :coffeedrink:

Primary bench, that will also fold out into a "twin" bed.

Secondary bench, creating fuel filler access from the outside, and a bit of storage.

Primary counter, with LOADS of storage under, and a large outside access panel that can double as an outside prep table.

Pass-thru window bench. Allows for easier access thru the pass-thru window, and connects storage areas from drivers side to passenger side.

Secondary counter, with storage access from outside, slated for propane tank housing, and possibly the heater too.

And finally, the primary sleeping area above the cab of the truck. A 48x72 area, just big enough for a "full" mattress.:wings:

[Mickldo]

On the ones we build at work we use 70 x 30 alloy box and a hat section that is 30mm high. We use the box section where there is a join in the sheets and we run two runs of 1" VHB tape down the box, one either side of the join. IMHO the 4" studs would still be massive overkill. If you are using steel 2" box would be fine or if you use alloy for the frame 3" would be plenty.

[IdaSHO]

Well, this project has been scrapped.

I came across a camper I couldnt pass up. it will serve as a great start to my build.

Look for a thread shortly :victory: