A new '07 4Runner for Expeditions [Archive]

Redline

11-25-2006, 04:45 PM

I'm new here, have been reading the threads, and would like some input & opinion regarding my questions and concerns. First I should lay some ground work...

For the last year and a half I have been setting-up an '05 Jeep Wrangler LWB TJ/Rubicon with a 6-speed. It has a moderate, 3-inch lift, front/rear bumpers, Warn 8274 Winch, sliders, cross-over steering, 4.88 ring & pinions and a few other mods. My approach has been to try to keep the Jeep nice for on-road use while tying to make it a better wheeler and crawler. So far I have been fairly successful at keeping it a dual-purpose rig, but compared to a new Toyota it is certainly lacking in on-highway comfort. Off highway the LJ is very good, and for slow speed rock crawling it probably has few peers (other than other set-up, purpose built rigs) but for longer highway trips the ergonomics, wind noise, (lack of) power and other characteristics make it less than ideal.

I have ordered an Adventure Trailer Chaser, which I should have near the beginning January. Though I should be able pull the Chaser behind the LJ almost anywhere I would care to 4-wheel my LJ (maybe even the Rubicon Trail?) surely a new 4Runner would pull a Chaser just as well, except on the more difficult trails. In an effort to have something much more conformable to cover the highway miles that are involved in any trip, a new Toyota has been on my mind for a few weeks. I also seriously considered/studied the pre '05 TDR Tacomas a few years ago.

I read a 20+ page thread about setting-up an '05 Taco as well as a shorter thread about an '06 4Runner. I had expected to post here with questions about a new Taco but after a visit to the Toyota dealer yesterday where I drove a new TDR Tacoma, an FJCrusier, and a V8 4Runner (in that order) I was most impressed by the 4Runner. Good power, ride, creature comforts and ergonomics for my tall frame. I'm now thinking a V8 4Runner SR5 with a few select options might be very nice (surprising words for me to type:-). I'm an manual transmission fan but was really impressed with the 5-speed A/T in the 4Runner. I came away impressed and excited, and thinking I could be very happy to drive one of these upscale, comfortable SUVs as my daily driver and expedition vehicle.

Some of my concerns/questions are:

I really prefer a manual trans, how will A/T and hill decent feature control speed down technical hills?

Will the ABS (than can't be turned off) cause problems while needing to ride the brakes on slow down hills?

No T-case shift lever, so how reliable is the 4x4 twist knob on the dash (manual hubs and T-case is my preference)?

How does the part-time V6 and full-time V8 system work? Axle disconnect on the V6? Axles always turning on the V8 as it's a viscous coupled system waiting for slippage unless the center is 'locked' into 4x4?

No locker option is a slight negative (cheaper from the dealer/factory) but I assume I can put a an ARB in the rear? Front too?

If I could clear 265/75R16 or even better 255/85R16 without a suspension lift (just trimming?) that would be great. But I think the new 4Runners are a little low and it may need a few inches of lift for added clearance or less lift to compensate for a heavy front bumper/winch. What do you guys think?

Are there any good rear bumpers for the new 4Runners to drag off-road?

There is lots to think about. If I decide I want to sell my Rubicon, sacrificing some killer off-highway crawling ability for a much more comfortable daily-driver and expedition vehicle, I will obviously loose most of the several thousand dollars I have put into the Wrangler (but I've learned plenty). And, although I prefer the styling of my TJ to the new Jeep JK, if/when Jeep comes out with a new diesel I would like to have one as I'm a big-time diesel fan. Still, a Toyota (reliability/quality) may be a better all-around 'car' and an expedition platform.

Thank in advance for any comments/opinions,

James

Sgt Grunt

11-25-2006, 05:42 PM

James,

Are you set on buying/trading for something new???

I just did a 3500 mile trip in my Land Cruiser FZJ 80 that was loaded to the hilt and was over all pretty happy with how it did, minus the fuel consumption. Since the trip, which was mostly on road :( . I have gotten the bug to look at a few other options. But, I will say that for a multi use all around good truck the 80 is very good candidate, barring one thing... the last one to come into the U.S. is 10 years old. So for me in keeping with a similar set up to what I have, a double cab Taco probably makes the most sence, follow by a 100 series Land Cuiser.

If I was to change my set up completely, I would buy a slide in camper for my 06 2500 Dodge Diesel and build something to pull behind it on a trailer. After all we do live in the land of perfect highways and doing real expedition travel will probably at best be 25% off road.

Which ever way you go it will be fun. If you decide to sell the Jeep let me know, I may go the tow rig route sooner than later. I hope my Toyota friends don't hear me say that...:yikes:

Ryanmb21

11-25-2006, 06:41 PM

You ask several great questions, I love my '06 4runner. The V6 and V8 4runner's have the same transmissions and transfer case's, they come with a torsen differential that when shifted into 4hi can be used on-road 100% of the time, which the V8 always is. These come with a center diff-lock, which when locked = a normal transfer case. ARB lockers can be put in the front and rear, although most people have been fine with ATRAC which comes standard. I chose the V6 because I like the option of using 2wd and saving some gas.

There are several good lift options, although I don't think a rear bumper has been made yet.

Here are some threads worth looking at:

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811&highlight=runner

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1825

Also, another good forum that focuses on 4runner specifics is :

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/index.php?

(This site has some awesome 4runner's, and loads of info specific, a must read if your are considering a 4runner)

Good luck!
:rockon:

Scott Brady

11-25-2006, 08:20 PM

I would recommend keeping the LJ...

Buy some nice seats, install a Borla exhaust system (headers and exhaust) and gearing, add some insulation to the flooring and maybe a headliner in the top.

Use all the money you save on a new vehicle for fuel to explore the SW :beer:

k6uk

11-26-2006, 08:20 AM

I am totally loving my 4runner!
I am still in the process of outfitting it, but it has been just great on and off road, and I don't regret it a bit!

http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/110362328-M.jpg
http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/96244336-M.jpg

Redline

11-26-2006, 12:30 PM

Yes, I am set on buying new (it's a disease :-). I like getting exactly what I want (color, options) and starting with a clean sheet and doing it 'my way'. Wearing-in the engine and other systems changing fluids early and often, hoping to help longevity. This matters not if a vehicle doesn't stay in the stable long but if it does, like my '96 F-350, you know the history and have laid a great foundation. Once the first 100k pass you are more than ready for more (s)miles.

I did consider the FZJ80 briefly. While an excellent platform, they are 10-years old as you say and I don't care to start with a vehicle with a long, unknown history and presumably several thousand miles (100K+).

My Wrangler is cool and functional but your '25% off-highway' comment hits the 'nail-on-the-head'. This is one of the main reasons I'm thinking of changing vehicles. Most travel, including adventuring/expeditions includes lots of highway miles...

James

James,

Are you set on buying/trading for something new???

I just did a 3500 mile trip in my Land Cruiser FZJ 80 that was loaded to the hilt and was over all pretty happy with how it did, minus the fuel consumption. Since the trip, which was mostly on road :( . I have gotten the bug to look at a few other options. But, I will say that for a multi use all around good truck the 80 is very good candidate, barring one thing... the last one to come into the U.S. is 10 years old. So for me in keeping with a similar set up to what I have, a double cab Taco probably makes the most sence, follow by a 100 series Land Cuiser.

If I was to change my set up completely, I would buy a slide in camper for my 06 2500 Dodge Diesel and build something to pull behind it on a trailer. After all we do live in the land of perfect highways and doing real expedition travel will probably at best be 25% off road.

Which ever way you go it will be fun. If you decide to sell the Jeep let me know, I may go the tow rig route sooner than later. I hope my Toyota friends don't hear me say that...:yikes:

Redline

11-26-2006, 12:36 PM

Sound advise from the experienced... Though the LJ is far from paid for I have thousands invested that I will loose/sacrifice.

I already have the have gearing on my LJ, it did make the power/drivability much better. Some reclining Mastercraft seats would be relatively inexpensive compared to buying anew 4Runner with an 8-way seat attached :-)

Still, reading the link posted above from your thread on the ARB 4Runner trip/test swings me back the other direction, confirming what a great, comfortable, capable ride the new 4Runners are, or can be.

James

I would recommend keeping the LJ...

Buy some nice seats, install a Borla exhaust system (headers and exhaust) and gearing, add some insulation to the flooring and maybe a headliner in the top.

Use all the money you save on a new vehicle for fuel to explore the SW :beer:

Redline

11-26-2006, 12:37 PM

What size tires/lift do you have?

I am totally loving my 4runner!
I am still in the process of outfitting it, but it has been just great on and off road, and I don't regret it a bit!

http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/110362328-M.jpg
http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/96244336-M.jpg

Redline

11-26-2006, 12:41 PM

"although I don't think a rear bumper has been made yet"

I see this as a big negative. The 4Runner doesn't have a very good departure angle and therefore a stout, aftermarket rear bumper is needed for the guaranteed butt dragging in the sand & rocks.

You ask several great questions, I love my '06 4runner. The V6 and V8 4runner's have the same transmissions and transfer case's, they come with a torsen differential that when shifted into 4hi can be used on-road 100% of the time, which the V8 always is. These come with a center diff-lock, which when locked = a normal transfer case. ARB lockers can be put in the front and rear, although most people have been fine with ATRAC which comes standard. I chose the V6 because I like the option of using 2wd and saving some gas.

There are several good lift options, although I don't think a rear bumper has been made yet.

Here are some threads worth looking at:

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811&highlight=runner

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1825

Also, another good forum that focuses on 4runner specifics is :

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/index.php?

(This site has some awesome 4runner's, and loads of info specific, a must read if your are considering a 4runner)

Good luck!
:rockon:

Redline

11-26-2006, 12:50 PM

I think the 4Runners have an electronic throttle... Can they be 'power-braked'?

I know the system won't allow the tires to slip but I want to confirm the engine power is not cut if the right foot is on the gas and the left is on the brake at the same time. Obviously for slow technical sections of road being able to inch forward playing the engine against the brakes is critical. (My little VW Golf TDI won't let me do this, but it doesn't 4-wheel much :-)

PSI Sensors:

Reading the 4Runner brochure indicates it has tire pressure sensors. If/when tire PSI is low what happens??? If just an 'idiot light' illuminates I think it's probably okay. If there is a warning beep or anything else is affected then I would say it's bad. Obviously I will let air out of the tires when off-highway.

Thanks,

James

Redline

11-26-2006, 01:04 PM

Nitto Terra Grapplers 265/70/17 |OME suspension

Having now read your signature line, I see what suspension/tires you have. The tires are not taller than stock?

Do the 07s come with ATRAC? Are they calling it something different?

I see Downhill Assist Control (DAC), Hill Start Assist Control (HAC) and Torsen limited-slip center differential listed in the brochure, but no ATRAC. Is the Torsen center diff the same as ATRAC?

You ask several great questions, I love my '06 4runner. The V6 and V8 4runner's have the same transmissions and transfer case's, they come with a torsen differential that when shifted into 4hi can be used on-road 100% of the time, which the V8 always is. These come with a center diff-lock, which when locked = a normal transfer case. ARB lockers can be put in the front and rear, although most people have been fine with ATRAC which comes standard. I chose the V6 because I like the option of using 2wd and saving some gas.

There are several good lift options, although I don't think a rear bumper has been made yet.

Here are some threads worth looking at:

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811&highlight=runner

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1825

Also, another good forum that focuses on 4runner specifics is :

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/index.php?

(This site has some awesome 4runner's, and loads of info specific, a must read if your are considering a 4runner)

Good luck!
:rockon:

Robthebrit

11-26-2006, 02:55 PM

Torsen or 'Torque Sensing' diffs are usually used to make a permanent 4WD drive systems and are not like a-trac, a-trac is completely computer controlled and torsen is a completely mechanical system although may have some electronic components these days. Torsen diffs are used on H1s and are basically an open diff that works as a torque multiplier, ie, they can multiply the torque of the low traction side and apply it to the high traction side.

They work very well although lifting a wheel can cause problems, if the torque multipler is 5 then 5 times 0 is 0 and in effect that axle is disabled. If you get one wheel on both axles off the floor you are effectively stuck. H1's quite effectively get around this by holding the brake and applying gas, then you get 5 times the braking force applied to the other wheel which is more than enough to overcome the brakes and move the vehicle forwads, its a little tricky to get just right but it does work. Diagonal ditch crossings are a typical cause for lifting one wheel on each axle and it is this that gave the H1 a bad name with some offroaders, it really is just a name and the H1 is great off road once you get used to it. Torsens can sometimes have problems with ice and deep snow for the same reasons.

If you have a Torsen in all three positoins you can effectively forget about engaging/disengaging 4wd etc and let the system handle it. The end result is a system like the modern electronic systems but something seems more correct about them, there is less voodoo and they are all mechanical.

I am not 100% sure how they actually work, you can find exploded pictures of them on the web and they appear to be remarkably complicated. I have never had to take to pieces and really figure it out.

Rob

LexusAllTerrain

11-26-2006, 03:41 PM

Ryanmb21

11-26-2006, 04:15 PM

Ryanmb21

11-26-2006, 04:17 PM

I think the 4Runners have an electronic throttle... Can they be 'power-braked'?

PSI Sensors:

Reading the 4Runner brochure indicates it has tire pressure sensors. If/when tire PSI is low what happens??? If just an 'idiot light' illuminates I think it's probably okay. If there is a warning beep or anything else is affected then I would say it's bad. Obviously I will let air out of the tires when off-highway.

Thanks,

James

An idiot light comes on, that's all. The sensors are in the wheel, so changing the tires doesn't affect the system at all, and it works on the spare as well :elkgrin:

TACODOC

11-26-2006, 05:11 PM

Hmmm... Both are good machines. I'd keep the Jeep, it with an Adventure Trailer is a sweet combo IMO.

Redline

11-26-2006, 05:16 PM

What happens if you buy aftermarket wheels?

An idiot light comes on, that's all. The sensors are in the wheel, so changing the tires doesn't affect the system at all, and it works on the spare as well :elkgrin:

Redline

11-26-2006, 05:21 PM

"4-wheel Traction Control in 4WD mode only. Rear-wheel Traction Control in 2WD mode."

Above is from Toyota's website. No mention of ATRAC that I can find, but maybe they are just calling it 'Traction Control'?

Could one probably squeeze on 265/75R16s without a lift, which would make the 4Runner about .75-inch taller? I have a set of Toyo M/T in 265/75 that are almost new that could go on a new Toyota (also have some 255/85 but I'm assuming lift would be needed). The only bad thing would be that they are Load-Range-E and might be a little stiff for that nice suspension.

The stock size is 265/65/17, so mine are a bit taller. From what I understand, The Torsen limited slip, is more of an advantage when on-road that off, it gives you AWD for slick road conditions, where traditional 4wd would faulter. In tough off-road situations, it's my understanding that locking the center diff and using ATRAC will get you through almost anything, and yes ATRAC is standard on all 4x4 4th gen 4runners.

I have used the brake and throttle at the same time and never noticed any power decrease, although I could be wrong on this.

Redline

11-26-2006, 05:37 PM

I know my wife wants me to keep the Jeep!!!

I was out trolling the car lots this morning before the salesmen were up... The 4Runner would certainly be a great driver, eating-up the road miles to get off-highway, but once there would need some money to add clearance/traction [locker(s)] for the more technical stuff. I just read Scott's Off-Road article on the ARB 4Runner as well as the thread linked above.

Looked at '06 Wranglers (no Rubicons) and a new SWB JK too... Of course my set-up rig is better that the stockers and I will need a compelling reason to buy as JK over my LJ (like Diesel Power).

I like to shop for, buy, and build rigs but you are correct TacoDoc… A Jeep and an Adventure Trailer is a good combo. With a Chaser behind my mild LJ they are probably equally capable (or close). With a 'stock' 4Runner I would probably be limiting the trailer's ability.

Decisions and MONEY!
:smiley_drive:

Hmmm... Both are good machines. I'd keep the Jeep, it with an Adventure Trailer is a sweet combo IMO.

LexusAllTerrain

11-26-2006, 06:11 PM

Well if you are not happy with the Jeep, upgrade. I am very happy with the Runner and also cosidered a 07' Jeep wrangler wich my wife likes 4 door, however for the money ( half price ) I think i made a good decision on the 4Runner, also after i saw and read about Scott's experience with the 04' ARB 4Runner, I was sold on it. I will spend about 3k on the mods and be done with it for a savings of 10.5k . I am sure i can travel next year and spend the 10k in my trip to Belize/guatemal or less...

Redline

11-27-2006, 03:49 AM

Continuing with my manic study of the new 4Runner as a possible replacement for my '05 LJ I read something that is helping me stay with my Jeep, or at least give the Tacoma a second look and slow down.

In an older review from 2003 on Rockcrawler.com they mention that all 2003-up 4Runners will have a tow hitch as it is an integral part of the frame. This is not bad for strengthening/crossmember feature (I love stout bumpers & hitches), however it tells me that removing the stock hitch for an aftermarket bumper/hitch combo with more clearance will be more difficult. This might be one of the reasons there aren't any rear bumpers for the 4Runner yet (another might be not enough demand).

I'm back to the Tacoma which was my original focus, more stuff available for it (Armor, Armor, Armor :-) and I think I need to drive one with the 5-speed A/T. I was first impressed with the 5-sp. A/T when it was behind the V6 in an FJCrusier. This combination felt really strong to me (better than the V6 6-speed Tacoma I had just driven). I really liked the control of the gated shifter for the 5-speed [surprised I'm writing I like an auto more than a manual in this application; on-road anyway]. I'm assuming the Tacoma has the same gated shifter as the FJ and 4Runner?

And, I looked at Jeeps today too... Very few on the lot here right now, a few regular 2006s and ONE JL SWB that was sold. Looking at stockers sure made mine look good. I gave the JK another look and thought how careful I need to be about buying a Toyota. I'm sure the Toyota would please in many ways, particularly on the highway and on fast dirt, but I might have buyers remorse if Jeep was to come out with a Diesel in the LWB JK within a year or so... Steady boy Steady :-)

Life_in_4Lo

11-27-2006, 05:51 PM

In an older review from 2003 on Rockcrawler.com they mention that all 2003-up 4Runners will have a tow hitch as it is an integral part of the frame. This is not bad for strengthening/crossmember feature (I love stout bumpers & hitches), however it tells me that removing the stock hitch for an aftermarket bumper/hitch combo with more clearance will be more difficult. This might be one of the reasons there aren't any rear bumpers for the 4Runner yet (another might be not enough demand).

That is incorrect. The 03 orig came w/ a 5000lb hitch that was bolted onto the rear crossmember. It was up high and the bumper plastic kind of 'integrated' around it.

They soon came with a "draw-tite" or U-haul type of hitch that is tubular and drops down under the bumper. it also has a higher load rating.

All of the hitches, no matter the year, are bolt-on units.

My friend is planning on a rear bumper from 4x4labs.com this winter... armor is slow in coming but it was the same for the 80 series land cruiser. I don't think the 4x4 aftermarket hit it seriously for quite some time.

Redline

11-27-2006, 07:09 PM

They changed the hitch but one still needs to have the hitch as the rear most cross-member, right?

The 4x4Labs option is cool, and they are pretty close to me if I need something from them. Probably the only negative would be cost. I just called them to get an idea of what would be involved for a new/different vehicle...

Someone (me? :-) needs to drop off their vehicle for a month or so to allow for a mock-up and then wait for Luke to have the pieces cut and then assembled. The gentleman I spoke with indicated the rear bumpers with two swing out carriers (one for hi-lift & Fuel, one for tire) usually cost around $2000.00.

That is incorrect. The 03 orig came w/ a 5000lb hitch that was bolted onto the rear crossmember. It was up high and the bumper plastic kind of 'integrated' around it.

They soon came with a "draw-tite" or U-haul type of hitch that is tubular and drops down under the bumper. it also has a higher load rating.

All of the hitches, no matter the year, are bolt-on units.

My friend is planning on a rear bumper from 4x4labs.com this winter... armor is slow in coming but it was the same for the 80 series land cruiser. I don't think the 4x4 aftermarket hit it seriously for quite some time.

k6uk

11-28-2006, 05:15 AM

What size tires/lift do you have?
Sorry for the delay.
I have 285s. With a 1" body lift, 2.5" longer rear coils (20% firmer), Donahoes in the front, and Spidertrax wheel spacers all around to help out the lexus rims. Working great for me so far!

And she does flex nicely:
http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/98302981-L.jpg

Scott Brady

11-28-2006, 03:11 PM

Those 4Runners are total sleepers... I wanted to go out and buy one the day I gave the ARB 4Runner back.

devinsixtyseven

11-28-2006, 09:03 PM

the abs system is always active. however, it doesnt seem to activate below a certain speed, like 10mph, 5mph, something like that. i have been able to pop the abs offroad, but only doing things i oughtn't. if you're on a technical obstacle, it's not been anything to worry about in my experience. if youre going down a steep hill, and youre moving too fast anyway, youll have more to worry about than the abs.

that said, if you get on loose terrain on a very steep hill, i could see the abs becoming a problem if the vehicle got out of control and started rolling/sliding down the hill.

-sean

Redline

11-28-2006, 09:15 PM

Damn Scott, you're not making this easy for me... :-) :-) And sleepers are cool just because they sneak up on you :-)

I was so impressed with the V8 4Runner last week that I was thinking of buying one (still am) and I haven't even driven one off-highway!

As always there are positives and negatives for every platform, but I haven't been able to completely stop thinking about a new Toyota, 4Runner in particular after my test drive last Friday.

Cons:

1) For me the biggest one is that I have spent plenty of cash outfitting my '05 LJ and most, if not all of that would be flushed down the toilet to start again with a new platform that is even more expensive to modify. Rear bumper/carrier would need to be 'custom', further adding cost.

2) Rear overhang is substantial I think making the above 'custom' rear bumper more of a necessity for more difficult trails than if it were not so long and low in the rear. But 4x4Labs sounds willing to make one if I give them my rig and lots of cash.

3) Lockers need to come from the aftermarket; more cost.

These first three could all be listed under one heading: money.

4) Even when set-up, a new 4Runner is certainly not the best rig for difficult/extreme trails (though it is surely plenty good for most trails and expedition travel). This is not necessarily a 'con', maybe just a trade-off for comfort.)

5) Buy a new Toy and possibly miss out on a Diesel Wrangler JK (but a JK still is not a plush as a 4Runner:-). The 4.7L V8 seems terrific, thought still not a diesel. With diesel comes economy and range.

Pros:

1) Comfort! (I must be getting sore & sensitive at middle age) I was so impressed by the ride of the suspension and the power, 8-way adjustable seat that I could see many comfortable hours in the saddle in one of these 4Runners. Comfort equals less fatigue and happier travel, both on and off highway. My wife would prefer that I not even think about trading vehicles because of the cost and extending out payments (starting over)... but although she is a 'trooper' and a good traveler she has commented about how the Wrangler is not a very comfortable vehicle (like when we drove to Moab in April for the EJS) and I know she would be a happier camper/traveler in a 4Runner even though I don't thin she wants to hear my rationalizations now.

2) Brakes:

Wow. The 4-wheel discs on the Toyotas kick the butt of the 4-wheel discs on my Wrangler.

3) Power

I really liked the torque and horsepower of the 4.7L V8, the thing moved forward well with the 5-speed A/T whether using part throttle or full stomp to bring out the horsepower. Maybe the V6 would be enough, as I have read many people like it, but it seems that the 2-MPG penalty for the V8 is well worth the extra power.

4) Toyota

Though I have yet to have ANY problems with my Jeep (other than the ones I have created with mods) I don't think my Wrangler can or will compete with a Toyota in the longevity & reliability departments. Toyota has a well deserved reputation for reliability and unless someone tells me things have changed, their 4x4s still seem more desirable than many others when it comes to hard use and many miles.

5) Tow, Tow, Tow Your Boat (or whatever you want)

The 7000-lb. tow rating of the V8 is nice to have, though it sounds like a lot for such a small/short vehicle. The engine and brakes are probably up to it, maybe the trans too, not sure how the 110-in. wheelbase and rear overhang would like that load or a very long trailer... but it might barely pull my old 30-ft Avion travel trailer (like an Airstream) which weighs about 7K+ loaded for a trip. The 4Runner wouldn't have to be our primary tow vehicle, but it might be able to be a stand-in for our old F-350 Diesel.

6) 'Drives Nice' for Particular Drivers

Rack & Pinion over recirculating ball; steering precision, enough said.

Neutrals

I would like a 4Runner for its ride & handling, maybe even its economy compared to a Wrangler, but how much of that would be sacrificed with a lift?

Those 4Runners are total sleepers... I wanted to go out and buy one the day I gave the ARB 4Runner back.

Redline

11-28-2006, 09:18 PM

Thanks for that input and clarification, I agree, it could be cause for concern. Did you see this with your ARB test Scott or didn't you have it in the type of terrain that might cause a problem?

the abs system is always active. however, it doesnt seem to activate below a certain speed, like 10mph, 5mph, something like that. i have been able to pop the abs offroad, but only doing things i oughtn't. if you're on a technical obstacle, it's not been anything to worry about in my experience. if youre going down a steep hill, and youre moving too fast anyway, youll have more to worry about than the abs.

that said, if you get on loose terrain on a very steep hill, i could see the abs becoming a problem if the vehicle got out of control and started rolling/sliding down the hill.

-sean

Redline

11-28-2006, 09:21 PM

Do you find the stiffer rear coils too stiff? How much of the good stock ride do they eat up? How about the front?

Do you have the stock 3.73 gearing with your 285s? If so, is the performance still good & strong, close enough to stock? V8 or six?

Sorry for the delay.
I have 285s. With a 1" body lift, 2.5" longer rear coils (20% firmer), Donahoes in the front, and Spidertrax wheel spacers all around to help out the lexus rims. Working great for me so far!

And she does flex nicely:
http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/98302981-L.jpg

k6uk

11-29-2006, 01:04 AM

Do you find the stiffer rear coils too stiff? How much of the good stock ride do they eat up? How about the front?

Do you have the stock 3.73 gearing with your 285s? If so, is the performance still good & strong, close enough to stock? V8 or six?

My truck rides really good, it feels more "alive" but not too stiff at all. The 20% firmer rear springs match the Donahoes very nicely (the bilstien 7100s are great too), I might get firmer rear springs if I hauled a lot of gear - but most of the time my truck is empty and I didn't want a harsh ride.

The donahoes feel great up front, very good ride and excellent off road.

I have the stock gearing with the V8 and it really feels fine. I was worried about it a lot when I did it, but it turned out to be a non-issue. I'll get lockers and gears someday... but honestly I don't need the gears as it stands.

-Mike

Redline

11-29-2006, 08:36 PM

What do you 4Runner & Tacoma guys think of 255/85R16s on a new 4Runner?

I have read here that 265/75s will fit with little or no perceivable rubbing. Depending on where the minimal rubbing occurs with 265s, I'm wondering if the 1-inch taller but narrower 285s would clear or almost clear with no lift.

I would love to get about 1.5-inches of lift from tires alone (maybe a little trimming like Scott did on his Tacoma). If need be maybe a very small lift from adjustable Danahoe's adjustable coil overs which would also allow for height adjustment from adding bumper/winch weight.

How much handling loss might occur with 1-2 inches of lift in the front. Lots of caster loss?

If I decide to change from a Wrangler to a Toyota (it's as likely that I won't as I will at this point; tough decision, lots to study) long distance road comfort and handling are some of the motivating factors to make the move to Toyota. I want to be fully informed before any purchases as I don't want to loose the excellent, responsive handling by making mild modification. Obviously stock is best for on-road but off-road would be greatly improved by a few sensible mods, and probably necessary for some of the moderately difficult trails I will want to travel.

Scott Brady

11-29-2006, 09:40 PM

What do you 4Runner & Tacoma guys think of 255/85R16s on a new 4Runner?

There will be a lot of trimming. I test fit the 255/85's on the 4x4Runner I had (2004 model) and fender clearance was an issue with 1.5" lift.

Redline

11-30-2006, 03:36 AM

Wow, that ARB 4Runner only had 1.5-inches of lift? It looked like more in the Off Road article. But 1.5-2.5-inches sounds like a nice increase for one of these 'low riders'. Add another .75-in. or more from tires and the off-highway benefits should be very noticeable.

It's helpful to know how 255s will/won't clear. One either needs less tire or more lift. Maybe 265/75R16 is a better choice.

Related to this I called both Total Chaos and Demello OffRoad today to learn a bit about adding a lift to a 4Runner. Sounds like a Danahoe's adjustable coil overs and Total Chaos' upper A-arms would allow for a couple of inches and allow the proper caster to be dialed in too. If I decide to do this expensive experiment I want the nice ride and control on-highway to mostly remain with the 4Runner. I like the idea of being able to adjust the height, particularly if I decide to lift before a bumper/weight is added, I can boost it up later to compensate for weight & sag.

James

There will be a lot of trimming. I test fit the 255/85's on the 4x4Runner I had (2004 model) and fender clearance was an issue with 1.5" lift.

Redline

11-30-2006, 03:51 AM

I have a fair amount of experience but all of it with solid axle trucks, I think I know the answer but assuming is not good enough. If someone would be so kind as to answer this very basic question...

When the front of a IFS 4Runner/Tacoma/FJCruz is lifted does the lower front (differential?) section of the truck raise with the lift? This area appears pretty low on the 4Runners.

I'm assuming it does but have seen what appears to be a lowered frame-mounted differential on GM trucks after a lift.

Asked another way: Will a 2-in. lift on a new Toyota raise the front/middle 2-inches while the rear, solid axle remains in place, only to be lifted by taller tires?

Thanks for filling in a gap :-)

James

calamaridog

11-30-2006, 04:10 AM

Couple things.

The basic design of the 5spd auto is the same from the v6 and v8 but the one mated to the v8 has some beefier cast iron parts vs. all aluminum with the v6. I really like this transmission!

Rear bumpers are not a deal breaker. You will find with the Toyota's that not everthing is available before it hits the market like the Wrangler. Don't let this deter you from having one fabbed up to do what you want it to do. There are several good fabricators within a days drive of NV who could make a wicked bumper.

I frequently wish I had gotten a v8 4runner instead of my Land Cruiser...

Redline

11-30-2006, 05:09 AM

calamaridog:

Very interesting and helpful. I like technical info and it's interesting to learn that the V8 has a different version of the 5-sp. I agree with you on the transmission. Gearhead friends who have been listening to me rattle on about my Toyota 4Runner infatuation are amazed when I tell them how much I like this automatic tranny. I like manual transmissions in trucks. But, the 5-sp seems to drive so nice. I think the gated-shifter is a big plus, allowing extra control for willing drivers.

Yep, I know someone local who could make something crude for me, and I called 4x4 Labs yesterday which is only about 100-miles away and apparently they could do a nice custom bumper/carrier for close to 2k!

I usually consider armor an important first for my rigs, but because of the cost (custom) I think I might add a small lift first to improve clearance and reduce drag/damage IF! I sell my Wrangler and jump head over heels for a sexy 007 4Runner :-) The little seductress.

Would you elaborate on your thoughts of a V8 4Runner over your Land Cruiser? Is it the size?

James

Couple things.

The basic design of the 5spd auto is the same from the v6 and v8 but the one mated to the v8 has some beefier cast iron parts vs. all aluminum with the v6. I really like this transmission!

Rear bumpers are not a deal breaker. You will find with the Toyota's that not everthing is available before it hits the market like the Wrangler. Don't let this deter you from having one fabbed up to do what you want it to do. There are several good fabricators within a days drive of NV who could make a wicked bumper.

I frequently wish I had gotten a v8 4runner instead of my Land Cruiser...

calamaridog

11-30-2006, 07:18 AM

I miss having a manual transmission only when I'm going downhill. It's much easier to have the automatic the rest of the time:D The good thing about the 4runner and LC is the brakes are very good, unlike many other large and medium SUV's.

My thoughts on the difference between the 4runner and LC... and why I've thought about having a 4runner instead? The size is surprisingly similar actually. The LC is not that much bigger really, but sometimes the extra inch counts. You can feel the weight though, and extra 1000lbs.

Specifications - 4runner V8 / LC (UZJ100)

height - 71.1/73.2 (1.1 difference)
width - 75.2/76.4 (1.2 difference)
length - 189.2/192.5 (3.3 difference)
wheelbase - 109.8/112.2 (2.4 difference)
track - 62.0/63.8 (1.8 difference)
curb weight - 4500/5400
gross weight - 6000/6900
tow cap - 7000/6500?

The rational of buying the 4runner instead would be having a newer design (coil overs in front instead of torsion bars) and lower mileage vehicle with better aftermarket product support. Dollar for dollar I would have had a newer vehicle with less miles. I'll say this though, the 98+ Land Cruiser is the best deal in the used 4x4 SUV market. You can get a hell of a vehicle for around 20k right now.

(I'm just having remorse because mine is due for all the 90k-100k maintenance and PM that these vehicles need once every 90k-100k to keep in top form.)

At around 100k you will want to PM the water pump, starter contacts, timing belt, and front CV's most likely. Then it should be good for another 100k or so;)

Now, as far as lockers go, your better off with the unlocked Toyota rear end and adding an ARB. The rear ends with the Toyota elocker have been failing too much for my taste. I believe you will not need a front ARB for anything you will do in the 4runner. Most of the time the TRAC system will work fine.

Forget the rear bumper. Do the lift and tires for a bit of an edge. Drag the hitch a little and your good to go:) If the plastic gets a little beat up, who cares? It's going in the dumpster eventually!

Redline

11-30-2006, 02:35 PM

Right on about the brakes. My Wrangler brakes are pretty weak, and the Toyotas are terrific, closer in performance to my wife's VW Golf TDI and my BMW M/C. Heck, even my big, old '96 F-350 has better braking power than the LJ. (I'm still on the original brakes at 120k, manual trans.)

I agree, starting with a new/newer vehicle is nice, so is more aftermarket support; advantage 4Runner (of the two named).

Manual trannys and down hill control go together!

Nice to know about the Toyota eLockers failing (not for the guys that have them). Toyotas locker is more fragile than the ARB? Why?

For some reason they aren't calling traction control 'ATRAC' on the 4Runners, but I'm sure you're correct that it will do well in most circumstances. This past April at the Easter Jeep Safari in Moab, on the Heel Revenge Trail, I watch a new stock (except for belly skid plate) FJCrusier negotiate the Hells Gate obstacle with ATRAC. A very good driver (Toyota Rep) modulating the brakes/gas drove the FJ out of a tight sidehill spot he had put the FJ into.

Size matters, bigger or smaller, depending on the task. I thought the new Tacomas, 4Runners, FJs were very wide, but the 4Runner's overall width is almost the same as the new, wider JK Wranglers. Of course narrower is often better off-highway and wider is more comfortable.

I was thinking the same thing about dragging the rear bumper... I have dragged the rear of my crew-cab F350 many times, but the Reunel rear bumper can take almost anything. My thinking was that if/when I drug the rear, lower plastic corers of a 4Runner, I might do a little plastic trimming with a sawsall :-). I looked under there and the bottom few inches are 'just there' not doing much other than matching the front bumper and adding to the stock look. With an eye on a replacement rear bumper the rear surely doesn't have to stay pretty forever.

I miss having a manual transmission only when I'm going downhill. It's much easier to have the automatic the rest of the time:D The good thing about the 4runner and LC is the brakes are very good, unlike many other large and medium SUV's.

My thoughts on the difference between the 4runner and LC... and why I've thought about having a 4runner instead? The size is surprisingly similar actually. The LC is not that much bigger really, but sometimes the extra inch counts. You can feel the weight though, and extra 1000lbs.

Specifications - 4runner V8 / LC (UZJ100)

height - 71.1/73.2 (1.1 difference)
width - 75.2/76.4 (1.2 difference)
length - 189.2/192.5 (3.3 difference)
wheelbase - 109.8/112.2 (2.4 difference)
track - 62.0/63.8 (1.8 difference)
curb weight - 4500/5400
gross weight - 6000/6900
tow cap - 7000/6500?

The rational of buying the 4runner instead would be having a newer design (coil overs in front instead of torsion bars) and lower mileage vehicle with better aftermarket product support. Dollar for dollar I would have had a newer vehicle with less miles. I'll say this though, the 98+ Land Cruiser is the best deal in the used 4x4 SUV market. You can get a hell of a vehicle for around 20k right now.

(I'm just having remorse because mine is due for all the 90k-100k maintenance and PM that these vehicles need once every 90k-100k to keep in top form.)

At around 100k you will want to PM the water pump, starter contacts, timing belt, and front CV's most likely. Then it should be good for another 100k or so;)

Now, as far as lockers go, your better off with the unlocked Toyota rear end and adding an ARB. The rear ends with the Toyota elocker have been failing too much for my taste. I believe you will not need a front ARB for anything you will do in the 4runner. Most of the time the TRAC system will work fine.

Forget the rear bumper. Do the lift and tires for a bit of an edge. Drag the hitch a little and your good to go:) If the plastic gets a little beat up, who cares? It's going in the dumpster eventually!

devinsixtyseven

11-30-2006, 03:11 PM

caster and camber decrease as the upper control arm drops, since it's mounted at a positive angle of attack and shorter than the lower control arm--makes it more stable on big hits, when you need stability most.

if you stay at or below 2.5" lift, you should still be able to get your truck aligned (this is for a tundra, but probably similar/same for v8 runner) at +0.25 degrees camber, +2.00 degrees caster, and +0.04 degrees toe, both sides absolutely equal (dont accept that road crown garbage).

with the new body style 4runner, i'd definately get a mild ride height adjustment, at least in the front...it has less ground clearance from the factory than older models, for whatever reason. might just be the weight, i dunno.

the front diff doesnt drop with a coilover lift unless you get a drop bracket/cradle lift (different terms for the same thing). you can get a diff drop spacer, which will help your cv joint angles, theyre cheap and easy to install. youre also correct regarding the rear, if you change the ride height in front with the coilover and dont do anything in the rear, the back only goes up from the larger tire. fwiw, you can get a 34" or 35" tire in the rear wells of a yota without trimming anything. the front is the hard part :D.

-sean

k6uk

11-30-2006, 05:17 PM

Diff drops are not necessary with the new 4runner. There is plenty of room to lift without getting your CV angles too extreme.

-Mike

Redline

12-01-2006, 06:12 AM

Redline

12-01-2006, 02:40 PM

I went on second test drive yesterday, this time in a V6 SR5 at about 4500-ft instead of near sea level with a V8. The V6 goes very well, though I think I would still prefer the V8 power/torque even with the MPG and premium gas penalty.

Salesman and I went on a little easy off-highway test, small ruts, rocky-road, I answered one of my questions. The 4runner does power-brake nicely, the electronic gas pedal doesn't shut off the power when you are on the brakes, good for slow speed control. Tried downhill decent control; what a joke. Not even on a difficult or super steep hill but the ABS starts grabbing/cycling loudly and speed is not super slow. Thankfully this feature has to be 'turned on' it is normally off. The brakes work normally and downhill control was maintained nice and slow using the brakes normally/correctly, who'd of thought? :-)

Did a short blast up to 30-40-MPH then jammed on the brakes to test the ABS in the dirt, halted the Toy well. I assume there may be situations off highway where puling the ABS relay could be beneficial if the ABS makes a habit of engaging in technical places where you don't want it to.

Climbed a little steep hillside, smooth but no road there, just a grade for eventual construction, it did well, had the center diff locked in Lo-range. Like this 5-speed, low range first gear seemed pretty low. Anyone know the ratios for this transmission?

It certainly needs lift, the front diff is low and the skids plates/break over-over angle were found a couple times/easily. I think three inches of suspension lift (Danhoes? or OME?) and 32 or narrow 33 inch tires would make a huge different for about 4-inches more clearance. I can see that high-speed runs across the desert could be very fun (Note to self: not too fast/try not to crash :-)

Ryanmb21

12-01-2006, 06:03 PM

Tried downhill decent control; what a joke. Not even on a difficult or super steep hill but the ABS starts grabbing/cycling loudly and speed is not super slow. Thankfully this feature has to be 'turned on' it is normally off. The brakes work normally and downhill control was maintained nice and slow using the brakes normally/correctly, who'd of thought? :-)

Did you use the DAC while 4Lo and 1st gear?? It's my understanding that the system only works when in 4Lo and 1st gear, if you are in 2nd or above it doesn't work. If so, I'm surprised you didn't like it I thought it worked pretty well.

Bergger

12-01-2006, 09:27 PM

Did you use the DAC while 4Lo and 1st gear?? It's my understanding that the system only works when in 4Lo and 1st gear, if you are in 2nd or above it doesn't work. If so, I'm surprised you didn't like it I thought it worked pretty well.

It only operates in 4Lo and I too am surprised at your results. I have not tried it myself but have heard good things from others that have it.

Redline

12-01-2006, 10:38 PM

Yep, I tried it in low-range first gear...

Remember, my take on it is just 'my opinion', filled with my personal experiences and biases. It was working as designed/correctly. My point and opinion is that I can control downhill decent better, smoother, either faster or slower, using the brake pedal normally myself and instead of the electronic gizmo.

James

It only operates in 4Lo and I too am surprised at your results. I have not tried it myself but have heard good things from others that have it.

Redline

12-01-2006, 10:40 PM

If you can fit 285s with 2.5-inches of lift + 1-in. body lift & wheel spacers, I'm thinking/hoping I could fit 255/85s with 3-inches of suspension lift.

How far off is your speedometer with your 285s?

Sorry for the delay.
I have 285s. With a 1" body lift, 2.5" longer rear coils (20% firmer), Donahoes in the front, and Spidertrax wheel spacers all around to help out the lexus rims. Working great for me so far!

And she does flex nicely:
http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/98302981-L.jpg

Redline

12-02-2006, 05:22 AM

What load-range are your 285s, E or D?

I have a set of E-load-range 265/75R16 Toyo M/T that could go on a lifted 4Runner, though I would prefer a softer, D-range sidewall.

If your 285s are E-range, and ride well/soft enough, maybe there is hope...

redLine

Sorry for the delay.
I have 285s. With a 1" body lift, 2.5" longer rear coils (20% firmer), Donahoes in the front, and Spidertrax wheel spacers all around to help out the lexus rims. Working great for me so far!

And she does flex nicely:
http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/98302981-L.jpg

LexusAllTerrain

12-02-2006, 12:52 PM

Did you use the DAC while 4Lo and 1st gear?? It's my understanding that the system only works when in 4Lo and 1st gear, if you are in 2nd or above it doesn't work. If so, I'm surprised you didn't like it I thought it worked pretty well.

I agree, it works great, and I have put this feature to it's test, and each and every time works great for my use and liking, and I go in very steep hills with deep loose sand!

k6uk

12-02-2006, 03:34 PM

You have Lexus rims... The tire PSI sensors are in the stock wheels as I understand it. If/when you change to a different/aftermarket wheel without the sensor what happens? Nothing? Do you simply just loose the low tire sensor feature (fine with me)?

Also, how important do you think the rear window deflector is to help keep the window clean? I like the look of the Runners better without them but think they might be very functional?

redLine/James

You can just move the wheel sensors from your stock wheels over to the new wheels... the tire shop may charge you for this. That's what I did. But, yes the only thing you have to deal with if you don't have the sensors is the dashboard light.

I have no idea about that air deflector... You may want to ask the folks at toyota120.com it's almost exclusively 4th gen 4runners over there.

Did you use the DAC while 4Lo and 1st gear?? It's my understanding that the system only works when in 4Lo and 1st gear, if you are in 2nd or above it doesn't work. If so, I'm surprised you didn't like it I thought it worked pretty well.

I have used it quite a bit and it does work nicely... but... since the 4runner will engine brake in 1st gear low... most of the time I just use this option. But on certain terrain the DAC is nice.

If you can fit 285s with 2.5-inches of lift + 1-in. body lift & wheel spacers, I'm thinking/hoping I could fit 255/85s with 3-inches of suspension lift.

How far off is your speedometer with your 285s?

I think the 255/85s will be much more difficult since they are a bit bigger in actual diameter. The problem isn't the fender but the body mount that is right behind the front wheel. It is a serious limitation. Some guys have cut it, and then box welded it... but I don't think it does good things for your warranty situation. I think 285s are the limit without cutting that.

I'll have to check what load rating my Cooper STTs are... but they feel nice.

-Mike

Redline

12-10-2006, 08:07 PM

Not that I don't value the the opinion of Scott & TacoDoc or any others who advised against selling my nice LJ and buying a Toyota, but with some hesitation I have decided to sell my Jeep (I may buy another in a couple years :-). I met up with an acquaintance last week and when he learned I was thinking of selling my Wrangler he wanted it. Although buying and selling new vehicles is always financially taxing, and adding expensive accessories doesn't help, I was able to sell my LJ for a fair price, slightly above high blue-book. Building the Jeep was a good learning experience too. Tomorrow I'll take the Jeep to him and he will give me the money. I'll pay off the Jeep note and pocket a few thousand that will go back into a 4Runner almost immediately. I know I will miss my LJ as it is a very 'cool' 4x4, nicely set-up and ready for most trails and adventures... But it is not very comfortable to spend hours behind the wheel traveling to destinations many miles away. There are always trade-offs...

I have decided I want a 4Runner instead of a Tacoma, a little shorter wheelbase, more comfortable/luxurious, V8 power, and an enclosed utility vehicle instead of a pickup (I have another pickup for hauling). I want an SR5 V8 which apparently is very hard to find, more Sports and Limiteds, and even then there are many V6s to a few V8s. Part of the problem is I'm not negotiable on two things; it has to be a White V8. I do have a line on a White SR5 V8 with a few options which will be available this coming week a few hundred miles from me. I wanted the upgraded JBL stereo but this one doesn't have it (though stereos are easy to upgrade if I chose to), and it has the extra side curtain and roll-sensing a air-bags (with a cut-off switch). I'm not really much of an air-bag fan though they do have their positives... If my wife and I were to get blasted from the side on the streets I guess we might be happy to have them. As long as we turn them off when 4wheeling we should be okay. My decision whether or not to buy this particular SR5 hinges on its sunroof option. Originally I wanted a sunroof as I thought looking up to see more of world would be beneficial, particularly off-highway. But the moon-roof option reduces headroom by 1.4-inches directly over my head. Though I'm tall, I like to raise the seat for a good view of the road/trail. I'm going to continue shopping and test drive another 4Runner with the moon-roof and power seat to see if it will be okay. It appears most 4Runners have the moon-roofs; one salesman I have had contact with did a search several hundreds miles wide and found ONE SR5 V8 without a sunroof in S. California. I haven't called on it. My timing seems good as there are rebates rebates from $1250-2000.00 depending on what and where I buy.

Until the 4Runner grows up it will be hard for it to fill the shoes of the LJ, but I have plans to do the basics rather quickly. Within the first two months I plan to lift the 'Runner about 3-inches, add a Shrockworks bumper, winch, rock slides, and tires. These mods should improve the 4Runner's off highway prowess a lot. A locker(s) and a custom rear bumper will have to wait for money and needs evaluation. Because I made this decision to change platforms before my Adventure Chaser is finished I'm getting it made with Toyota hubs instead of Jeep, saving me the chore of changing it later.

James/redLine

LexusAllTerrain

12-11-2006, 01:07 AM

Great thinking! and one thing I did right away was to install a yellow top OPTIMA battery, same plan like yours, next will be adding the tires 265/70-17"
unsure if I am going with ALL-TERRAIN tires or MUD-TERRAIN, time will tell, my wife wants the tough look:confused: , however we need to get the right mods for our future needs wich are mainly exploration/expedition type;no roxk!:rockon: however we do alot of SAND driving in remote virgin bays.:ylsmoke:

BajaTaco

12-11-2006, 02:15 AM

Congrats on the decision.

Nice choice on the color :victory:

k6uk

12-11-2006, 01:05 PM

Congrats!

You'll love the 4runner.
As for the stereo... I've heard better than the JBL anyway... the JBL is fine for me... but a good aftermarket system could outperform it.

Good luck with the purchase!

-Mike

Redline

12-14-2006, 02:27 PM

Yep, it would be easier to find a basic 4Runner if I wasn't set on a V8. But since my Wrangler was not very powerful on long grades and highways in general I think it will be nice to have a little more scoot.

My last four new vehicles have all been white, 3 trucks and a Jeep. Now Toyota too :-)

Congrats on the decision.

Nice choice on the color :victory:

Redline

12-14-2006, 03:06 PM

I almost had to give up my ideas/preference of buying a 4Runner and go back to thinking of a Tacoma. After a third test drive, this time in a power seat/sunroof V6 car, I decided that the 1.5-inch loss of headroom was too much when I had the power seat raised a little where I would prefer to have it. I simulated being bumped from off-highway jolts and know that my head/hair would at least touch the roof if I didn't lower the seat. This would negate the sight-line advantages and optimum adjustability that are available with the 8-way power seat. Comfort, power, and ergonomics were driving forces for me to sell my Jeep and buy a 4Runner in the first place. I decided I needed to find a V8 sans sunroof OR go back to Tacomas...

I'm obviously lucky. A Toyota salesman acquaintance from another board did a search for me in the whole 'Denver Region' (CO, UT, WY, NM, AZ, NV) plus California. This search located only five, SR5 V8s, all in California. Only one was missing a sun-roof and was a basic model with few options. Armed with this information I shopped on the internet for more than a week, looking at dealer stock and making a few calls. I didn't call the dealer with the 2006 SR5 V8 without the sun-roof; until Tuesday (after my 3rd test drive where I decided I really wanted no moon-roof).

I called the Fleet department and made a deal for this NOS (new old stock) 4Runner. It's almost a year old, being originally shipped in Dec. 2005. It only has 38-miles on the clock. After talking to a couple salesmen, it was clear that 4WDs don't sell well in So. Cal, particularly ones without leather. Two different people said "you know, it's a 4-wheel-drive" like it was a negative :-) Except for the fancy JBL stereo which I would like (but stereos are very easy to add/change) it is just what I want right down to the wheels. SR5 V8, White with grey interior, with 16-inch wheels (very hard to find 16s too). It has only three 'options' : Roof Rack, Carpeted floor mats, Tonneau Cover for cargo area. It's a stripy 4Runner, but in my mind there is no such thing as they all have, power-locks, windows, A/C-climate control, cruise, tilt-wheel, etc. I made a deal for $500.00 under invoice and there is a nice rebate too. It would be nice to buy a 2007 but it is even better to buy exactly what I want.

I'm having it shipped north to within a 100-miles of me and I will pick it up next Tuesday or Wednesday. Then in January, let the modifications begin :-) In stock trim it sure looks like/is a Mall Crawler...

James/redLine

Ryanmb21

12-14-2006, 04:09 PM

alright! :sombrero:

Those white ones sure look sweet, I had the toughest time deciding between black and white.

Good choice on not getting a sun-roof, I appreciate the head-room very much.

LexusAllTerrain

12-14-2006, 08:29 PM

alright! :sombrero:

Those white ones sure look sweet, I had the toughest time deciding between black and white.

Good choice on not getting a sun-roof, I appreciate the head-room very much.

Congratulations on your find, however have you done any reasearch on the Nitto Tires, I believe they only come in the P rating.:o

Redline

12-14-2006, 10:55 PM

I don't know that I care for a P-passenger car tire... A 'C' or 'D' load range would probably be fine. Though I have a set of close to new Toyo M/T 265/75R16s on my F-350 that I was thinking of transferring to my Runner, I know these E-range tires are heavy and stiff from having them on both my '05 Jeep and my F-350. Even though I love these tires (take little wheel weight too) and they are the correct size, I'm considering buying a set of BFG M/T in 265/75R16 which are D-range for my off-highway wheels.

Another option is a set of C-range Toyo A/T 265/75. But these are not aggressive off-highway treads and they would be a better replacement for the stock Michelins when I wear them out on the pavement using the stock wheels.

Congratulations on your find, however have you done any reasearch on the Nitto Tires, I believe they only come in the P rating.:o

LexusAllTerrain

12-15-2006, 01:11 AM

Oh! that's right you got the 16" wheels a much better selection in tire sizes.

I can not wait to see what king of tires you get for your Runner.

Redline

01-06-2007, 08:14 AM

I've had my 4Runner for about two weeks now, I drove it a lot during the first week, about 2000-miles. After doing the first few hundred smiles with limited cold-starts and trying to break it in my way, my wife and I drove the new Toy a few hundred miles to see family for Christmas, then returned home a few days later. We turned around and left the next day on a quick 1000-mile round trip to Southern California.

I haven't been in the dirt yet with this low-rider stocker, but have seen several miles of snow and ice. I'm very impressed with this ride. It's fast, comfortable, quiet and just an all around nice vehicle ("for a girl my wife says :-). Plush comes to mind compared to what I'm used to driving. My Jeep Rubicon was a great rig, but there is not doubt that all the road miles are much more pleasurable in the Toyota.

The on-road and long distance comfort was a prime motivator to buy the 4Runner so I hope I can retain most the positive traits after the modifications.

The first phase will include:

Shrockworks bumper & slides
Winch w/synthetic line
OME suspension
Tires/Wheels:
Toyo A/T 265/75R16 on the stock wheels (everyday & light wheeling)
Toyo M/T 265/75R16 on aftermarket wheels (for 'serious' travel :-)

It will take a few months to gather the parts and do the installations, might have to find some extra money too.

My still undecided second phase ideas are:

On-board air; probably a 12V from Extreme Outback Products
Aftermarket skid plates
A rear bumper/carrier (this will be $$$ as currently I believe custom is the only option)
Rear and/or Front lockers 'as needed' after wheeling with only ATRAC for a while.

redLine

BajaTaco

01-08-2007, 05:51 AM

Excellent, glad to hear you are enjoying it. There is a lot to be said for a comfy long-distance machine.

Nice choice on the air compressor for your 2nd phase mods. :ylsmoke:

calamaridog

01-11-2007, 10:02 AM

You should go wheel it while it is stock. You will appreciate all the modifications more and it will help put them in perspective as to real gains vs. perceived ones.

Redline

01-11-2007, 01:50 PM

Yes, I agree, and I will do a little wheelin' soon, though there are limited options here in Winter. But I have lots of experience 4Wheelin' and I know that my 4Runner is too low to do much of what I want off-highway. The approx. 3-inches of lift, armor, and tires will be a big improvement in my opinion... and I can't wait.

My front Shrockworks bumper will be the hang-up, as I'm getting the heavy-duty front OME springs, but I think they will be too stiff without the bumper/winch weight. My lift will be here this weekend but I plan to wait for at least a few weeks until the bumper is close to arriving.

But I do plan to do lots of 4Wheeling with my first phase modifications before I move forward with any thoughts of lockers :-)

You should go wheel it while it is stock. You will appreciate all the modifications more and it will help put them in perspective as to real gains vs. perceived ones.

LexusAllTerrain

01-19-2007, 04:44 PM

I went offroad in my stock 4runner to have a good point of reference.

I just install the BFG All Terrain tires and they made a huge difference, more ground clearance and better traction!

I just ordered my OME 3" lift with the heavies up front, expecting to add the bumper soon! Will probably add a winch too!

Good luck on your build, and lets check each others progress.:bike_rider:

Redline

01-22-2007, 03:17 AM

Yesterday I put new tires on too: Toyo A/T 265/75R16. My measurements indicate about 10/16" of lift over the stock 265/70R16 Michelins. I plan to run a set of M/Ts for serious playing :-)

I went offroad in my stock 4runner to have a good point of reference.

I just install the BFG All Terrain tires and they made a huge difference, more ground clearance and better traction!

I just ordered my OME 3" lift with the heavies up front, expecting to add the bumper soon! Will probably add a winch too!

Good luck on your build, and lets check each others progress.:bike_rider:

LexusAllTerrain

01-22-2007, 03:38 AM

Yesterday I put new tires on too: Toyo A/T 265/75R16. My measurements indicate about 10/16" of lift over the stock 265/70R16 Michelins. I plan to run a set of M/Ts for serious playing :-)

I am glad to hear that, I will be putting my 4Runner thru it's paces in my up coming Baja trip.
South to Bahia de Los Angeles and San Borja Mission.
I need to do my OEM Suspension in 2 weeks.:26_7_2:

Oh! by the way I was hoping i would not loose any power with the bigger tires, and I did not notice any changes!

Redline

01-23-2007, 03:14 AM

I will have to thoroughly test the ATRAC and think very carefully about adding lockers. I was very impressed with the ATRAC's ability to transfer power to the non-spinning wheel during my baseline test last week. No, it's not as good or the same a lockers, but if it works very well or good enough most of the time, without spending the money, or more importantly, digging into perfect, new differentials, I may never add lockers. The stock Toyota traction control is the best traction 'device' I have ever experienced short of true lockers. And one advantage they have is that they are useful/safer in more varied terrain (ice).

....

The first phase will include:

Shrockworks bumper & slides
Winch w/synthetic line
OME suspension
Tires/Wheels:
Toyo A/T 265/75R16 on the stock wheels (everyday & light wheeling)
Toyo M/T 265/75R16 on aftermarket wheels (for 'serious' travel :-)

It will take a few months to gather the parts and do the installations, might have to find some extra money too.

My still undecided second phase ideas are:

On-board air; probably a 12V from Extreme Outback Products
Aftermarket skid plates
A rear bumper/carrier (this will be $$$ as currently I believe custom is the only option)
Rear and/or Front lockers 'as needed' after wheeling with only ATRAC for a while.

redLine

LexusAllTerrain

01-23-2007, 04:29 AM

I will have to thoroughly test the ATRAC and think very carefully about adding lockers. I was very impressed with the ATRAC's ability to transfer power to the non-spinning wheel during my baseline test last week. No, it's not as good or the same a lockers, but if it works very well or good enough most of the time, without spending the money, or more importantly, digging into perfect, new differentials, I may never add lockers. The stock Toyota traction control is the best traction 'device' I have ever experienced short of true lockers. And one advantage they have is that they are useful/safer in more varied terrain (ice).

Indeed you need to test your vehicle, before you make a desition on the lockers, I spend some time yesterday in the dunes, some are very incline, and the Atrac works great, I did not even need to air down! I just can not wait to get my OME Suspension. by the way who did you order from you OME?

Redline

01-23-2007, 05:18 AM

I ordered from Slee Off-Road; Ben was very helpful and seemed very knowledgeable.

I have my OME suspension sitting in my garage, but I'm waiting for my front bumper to arrive in a few weeks before I do the suspension. I too ordered the heaviest springs for V8 + bumper/winch. I have decided not to put the suspension on without the bumper because it will ride stiff, probably be nose high and need another alignment after the front end changes ride height. I expect the Shrockworks bumper and slides to be here around mid February.

redLine

Indeed you need to test your vehicle, before you make a desition on the lockers, I spend some time yesterday in the dunes, some are very incline, and the Atrac works great, I did not even need to air down! I just can not wait to get my OME Suspension. by the way who did you order from you OME?