Well Phooey!

[Rexsname]

Darn it! I had my first "off" this afternoon. I was invited to go on a little ride after church. We went up Hwy 89A toward Jerome from Prescott Valley. I was approaching a mild left hand bend at about 35 or so and thought I'd better slow down a bit. I was allready leaned over some when I decided to brake. The bike then felt like it didn't want to turn and didn't particularly want to slow down much either. The outside edge of the turn had a nice wide run off area so I looked where I wanted to go and then...WHAM! I lowsided. I would guess I was going about 15-20 mph when I went down.

Damages? A small scratch on the visor of my helmet, a skinned elbow, torn pants, fubared shift lever, dented tank, damaged headlight/turn signal assembly. No damage at all to my Tourmaster jacket so I dont quite understand how I got a skinned elbow.......

I'm a little sore and will go to see the chiropractor asap.



REX

[Flounder]

Shoot. That is a bummer, but you sound like you'll ride again, which is not to be taken lightly. Many years ago I was burning through those very turns on my Ducati 916 and hit a bunch of chattered pavement that put me right on the white line. I kept it up, but it was spooky. It happens. Make your repairs and get back out - asap.

[MarcFJ60]

My first (and so far only) get off was on about my fifth ride. I figure as I long as I learned a lesson and didn't get too banged up it was okay.

Here's to lessons learned and hopefully seeing you on the road sometime soon :beer:

[Scott Brady]

Glad you are (mostly) ok Rex.

[Rexsname]

I took a 800mg Advil when I got home and am understandably still sore. We'll see how I feel in the morning........

REX

[CoastalDefender]

We'll see how I feel in the morning........

REX
Hopefully you feel like buying a new helmet. The scratch compromises integrity of the helmet, however small, and a new one may save your life when you get back on your hog...

[LandCruiserPhil]

Sorry to hear:Wow1: Glad to hear you are alright. Get back on ASAP and head back to that corner.
Just out of curiosity what let go the front or rear? Did you go off the road? More info request.

[Rexsname]

I was intending on riding into the runoff area and was braking toward it. The front tire went out from under me as soon as it got to the dirt/gravel. I'm pretty sure that this is purely a case of a lack of riding expirience.

I've got a Mojave Trail trip to distract me this week and then I can start to get the bike back to a riding condition.

As far as the helmet goes...... The scratches are very small and slight, I'll take it to the shop that I bought it from and have them take a look. It really doesnt look bad at all, I can't feel cant deformation in the foam liner.

REX

[UK4X4]

"I was intending on riding into the runoff area and was braking toward it. The front tire went out from under me as soon as it got to the dirt/gravel."

your answer is in your comments , front brake and gravel - dirt do not mix

[LandCruiserPhil]

"I was intending on riding into the runoff area and was braking toward it. The front tire went out from under me as soon as it got to the dirt/gravel."

your answer is in your comments , front brake and gravel - dirt do not mix

ABS is your friend :roost:

[datrupr]

Bummer, Rex. I'm glad you're ok. Shake it off, patch it up, and get back on the saddle. Sometimes you have to take your knocks to sharpen your skills. Enjoy the Mohave and get back on the saddle.

[Rexsname]

"Back opnt he saddle"


Dude.............Have another cup of coffee! :Wow1::wings::bike_rider:


REX

[ntsqd]

Hopefully w/o sounding like an arse I'm glad to hear of this Rex. The more that you fall, the better your falling instincts and skills will be. I am convinced that the only reason that I survived taking my old GPz into the side of J.D. McGrath's Blazer at ~60 MPH (GPz moved the rear axle sideways ~12") was because I come off my bicycles with monotonous regularity and have been doing so for 40 years.

Falling is a part of riding. Learning how to do it sucks, but it is important.

I am glad that you're not seriously hurt!

[goodtimes]

I was intending on riding into the runoff area and was braking toward it. The front tire went out from under me as soon as it got to the dirt/gravel. I'm pretty sure that this is purely a case of a lack of riding expirience.

I've got a Mojave Trail trip to distract me this week and then I can start to get the bike back to a riding condition.

As far as the helmet goes...... The scratches are very small and slight, I'll take it to the shop that I bought it from and have them take a look. It really doesnt look bad at all, I can't feel cant deformation in the foam liner.

REX

Helmets are a "one time use" item. If it bounced -- it should be replaced.

In the real world, most do not follow that rule. Each rider must answer one question for themselves: How much is your head worth? Are you willing to risk your life on a helmet which is known to be damaged? The choice is yours.

:)

[scarysharkface]

Glad your biff was minor. Get a new helmet. Front brake and gravel don't mix, but you know that now. Don't over-do it with the Advil. This is how we learn! :bike_rider:

John

[datrupr]

"Back opnt he saddle"


Dude.............Have another cup of coffee! :Wow1::wings::bike_rider:


REX

LOL. There, I fixed it.

[grahamfitter]

I have a 1980 CM400T. It is a sorta-kinda cruiser styled bike. My friend in high school had a Honda "Hawk" I think it was a CB400. In my limited research, the Hawk has a fuel capacity of 3.8 gal. Mine has a capacity of only 2.6 gallons.

Does anyone know if the Hawk tank would fit on my bike? Any Idea where I might find one to try?


REX

Its probably less than 2.6 gallons now! :sombrero:

Glad you're OK and ready to get back on the bike. Ride safe.

Cheers,
Graham

[Rexsname]

Aaron (Datrupr) showed me how to post pictures from Photobucket over the weekend. I took some pictures this morning and cannot for the life of me figure out how to get them from my computer into Photobucket.

I am planning to show you all the damage, but for now I'm stymied :(


REX

[RedRocker]

Photobucket has a place to click to download, click that and it should give you a browse option that can lead to your picture files. Hold down the ctrl button and click the ones you want to load.
Next time you hit a corner too hot, look ahead to where you want to go through the turn and counter steer. Breaks aren't a good idea once you're leaned over. You'll be amazed how far you can lean over w/o going down. I always figured in those situations that the worst that could happen was a low side if I stayed in it. If I panicked and hit the brakes or stood it up I'd high side or smack something. Having slid on my butt before I opt for the first option and it usually pays off.

[goodtimes]

Next time you hit a corner too hot, look ahead to where you want to go through the turn and counter steer.

That is actually an important point to bring up. You should be looking at the exit of the corner. Most people (myself included) tend to focus on the apex of the turn, only shifting to the exit when they reach the apex. You should be looking at the exit much sooner...



Breaks aren't a good idea once you're leaned over.

If you need to shed some speed in a corner (ideally, you would be at the correct speed *before* the corner), the rear brake is much more forgiving than the front. Obviously, you don't want to lock the rear tire up, but gentle application can slow you down without the huge nose dive and steering issues associated with the front brake.



You'll be amazed how far you can lean over w/o going down.

I saw a video a few months ago of some guy on a track (professional racer) who got so deep in a corner that his inside fork tube started dragging the ground. It levered the front tire off the track, as evidenced by the bike movements. Using his elbow and knee, he pushed the bike back off the ground, and recovered from what was, technically, a crash, without stopping (He finished the lap doing a wheelie, he knew that his time would suck anyway, so he was having a little "crash recovery" celebration). So how deep can a bike go into a corner and still recover? Pretty darn deep.

[T.Low]

Helmets are a "one time use" item. If it bounced -- it should be replaced.

In the real world, most do not follow that rule. Each rider must answer one question for themselves: How much is your head worth? Are you willing to risk your life on a helmet which is known to be damaged? The choice is yours.

:)


Also glad you are ok (shaken, but not stirred).

Once a helmet has been hit hard enough to "do its job", it then has lost the ability to absorb and spread the energy of the impact. Significance beeing that next time the energy will pass directly to your mellon.

For much the same reason, helmets truly do have a shelf life also.

[ntsqd]

If you need to shed some speed in a corner (ideally, you would be at the correct speed *before* the corner), the rear brake is much more forgiving than the front. Obviously, you don't want to lock the rear tire up, but gentle application can slow you down without the huge nose dive and steering issues associated with the front brake.


I was just looking for another posting of mine and found this thread again. GT, I nearly high-sided my sport bike because of the rear brake. As I was sliding off the bike saddle on the inside going around a corner my foot clipped the rear brake pedal. The bike Instantly stood up straight. Had I not been off the inside it may have kept going. It was a very dicey couple of seconds. From that point on I made a hearty effort to always brake standing up and never leaned over.

Rex, fyi, this happened at the WB Olivas Adobe Dr. to NB Victoria semi-circular transition.

I don't know if the Traction Circle was discussed in your class or if you're familiar with it or not. A tire has a finite amount of traction (radius of the circle) and can be used in any direction within the circle. If it is all braking then the traction arrow points straight back. If it is all cornering then it points straight to one side. If it is a combination of the two then it points at an angle. Note that if both cornering and braking that it can't corner as well because of the braking and it can't brake as well because of the cornering. When in doubt, get OFF the brakes and look at where you want to go, not where you're afraid of going. The bike will always, always, always go where you're looking if you're still in control of it, even if that its not really where you wanted to go.

[Rexsname]

Interesting that this thread got bumped to the top again......

I went down to the shop yesterday to check on things and the mechanic showed me something. When he was rolling the bike out of the back of my truck he grabbed a handful of front brake and......nothing! The lever went all the way to the handelbar!!! It worked the second time but I was thinking about other things at the time not "Should I squeeze it again" :Wow1:

A master cylinder rebuild kit is $31 and one hour of labor. I should have it back on Tuesday or Wednesday.

REX

[goodtimes]

As I was sliding off the bike saddle on the inside going around a corner my foot clipped the rear brake pedal. The bike Instantly stood up straight.

That's interesting. I use the rear brake in corners on a more than 'infrequent' basis. Granted, most of the time it is on huge sweeping corners (1/4 mile long overpass/on ramps where I catch up to traffic), but I have goofed around in parking lots using the rear brake on tight, fast corners, and on the street where someone does something rather dumb in front of me while I am 1/2 way through a corner . . . the rear brake has always been much more forgiving than the front. The bikes (plural) never wanted to stand up with the rear brake, although there is a definite impact on the handling. Obviously, the best solution is to not use your brakes in a corner, but I still find that if I need to, the rear brake is better than the front brake.



I don't know if the Traction Circle was discussed in your class or if you're familiar with it or not. The traction circle concept is a good thing to understand, regardless of how many tires a vehicle has. I don't recall it being in the MSF course (of course, it's been years . . . ), but it probably should be.

[robert]

ABS is your friend :roost:

Not so much on loose surfaces- gravel and sand fool the ABS into thinking it's locking up and so it releases then grabs again, releases then grabs again. That's why BMW puts a cutoff switch on the GSs; the Strom needs one but last I checked (and it's been a while) I don't think anyone had come up with a good way to rig one up.

Disclaimer as I'm not trying to be argumentative, you may well be a better rider than me (I won't claim to be more than an average rider so that's not hard to do) and the Strom is the first bike I've ridden on dirt and gravel that had ABS. I've ridden BMWs with ABS before, but never off paved roads.

[ntsqd]

I've driven a rear wheel only ABS 4 wheeled vehicle off pavement. The ABS got immediately disconnected right after it's interference caused me to simultaneously generate about 12" of air under all 4 tires.

[goodtimes]

ABS + dirt = no good.

Four wheels or two, I ain't no fan of ABS.

On the road, I like it . . . but not in the dirt.

[Rexsname]

I got my motorcycle back this afternoon. :bike_rider: Unfortunately, it was right in the middle of evening traffic time. I hadn't ridden in a few weeks so I took it easy and took the back ways home. No incidents to report. The windshield was broken in the accident and I am eager to replace it. It gets very windy at 65mph! :Wow1:


REX

[scarysharkface]

I got my motorcycle back this afternoon. :bike_rider: Unfortunately, it was right in the middle of evening traffic time. I hadn't ridden in a few weeks so I took it easy and took the back ways home. No incidents to report. The windshield was broken in the accident and I am eager to replace it. It gets very windy at 65mph! :Wow1:


REX

The back ways home are usually preferable to me when I'm on the bike! :bike_rider:

[Rexsname]

It was close to dark when I got home and I noticed that the headlight was skewed slightly to the left. I went back down to the shop and the took a closer look and decided that the forks are bent :mad:. The bike is rideable (I guess) but now I need to come up with another couple hundred bucks to make it right. I bought a cheap bike to save some money........it's not working out that way at all.


REX

[scarysharkface]

It was close to dark when I got home and I noticed that the headlight was skewed slightly to the left. I went back down to the shop and the took a closer look and decided that the forks are bent :mad:. The bike is rideable (I guess) but now I need to come up with another couple hundred bucks to make it right. I bought a cheap bike to save some money........it's not working out that way at all.


REX

Are they actually bent, or just twisted? You can usually straighten them (if twisted) by standing in front of the bike, wheel gripped tightly between your knees, and a good hard push/pull on the handlebars. If you have a motorcycle chock or something to wedge against, you can substitute that for your knees. Twisting forks is pretty common and nothing to get worked up about (or drop $$ to have some kid at the shop do exactly what I've described).

If they are indeed bent, which is unlikely but possible, then you'll need new ones. Some people straighten them with reasonable success, but I wouldn't ride on straightened fork tubes...

John

[goodtimes]

Rex -- you can buy a whole bike for 'a couple hundred bucks'. I paid $250 for mine (same model and year as yours).

Forks for that bike are not expensive.

[Cypher]

Damn I just found this thread! Glad you were OK Rex! Sorry to hear about the bike and your pains...

[Rexsname]

The guys at the shop put a 6 or 7 foot cheater bar between the fork tubes while one of them held the bars and the other one did his thing. It is better than it was before. It is not perfect. I was quoted $90 for new fork tubes. I need new fork seals as well. Labor is $75 an hour and there you have my guesstimate.



I rode down to see Carrie this morning. As much to save money as to 'get back on the horse that threw me'. It was 37* when I left even with several layers of clothing it was C-c-c-cold! I think my hands suffered the worst. I got a little rain and continued on my way. I never did get all the way warm until I got home and into my tub.

Does anyone have a reccomendation on cold weather gloves that will still allow the level of dexterity that I need? I am using Mechanix-ware gloves and I like the way they fit but they provide no warmth....


REX

[scarysharkface]

I've got a nice insulated pair of Carhartt elkskin (I think) gloves that don't offer as much protection as good armored riding gloves, but are warm, comfy and let me get at the switches. I think they were $20 or so at my local farm-goods store..

They tell me that replacing fork seals is no big deal if you're at all mechanical. I'm not, so I've paid to have mine replaced on a couple of bikes. Make sure they use OEM seals, because they actually last longer than the aftermarket ones. Fork seals can leak for a long time on a bike like that before needing to be replaced. When they quit leaking, then you know it's time! :sombrero:

If the handlebars aren't completely straight but it doesn't drive you crazy, just ride it anyway..

You're that much closer to *needing* the bike you really want! :bike_rider:

On a related note, my wife and I did some woods riding today with a friend. We all took turns on my Kawasaki KLR650, my Suzuki DR350 and Jerry's Yamaha WR250R. The Yamaha feels lightest, the KLR is most road-worthy and the DR350 is just a smokin' little beast that's fun to ride. All three are good bikes with their own strengths and weaknesses, and riding them all over the course of a single afternoon was great for comparison.

John

[Sleeping Dog]

Rex glad to hear that you're chastened but OK

Its common for some riders to use a bit of rear brake to scrub off a bit of speed in a corner but you need a light touch.

If you are fully leaned over, too much brake or even closing the throttle will result in the bike low siding. A turning MC is a careful balance between a directional force, traction and gravity.

Applying the brakes as you begin to lean a bike over will cause it to try and straighten up. This is more noticeable on bikes equipped with ABS as the system will try to maintain traction while in a non-abs bike a tire will likely lock up and you'll go down. If you try continue through the turn by pushing against the bikes attempts to right itself you can end up in a tank slapper.

ABS in dirt, sand, mud, or off road in general - no good.

ABS on dirt, sand or mud that is over pavement can be a lifesaver.

Jim