H1N1 Vaccine

[stevenmd]

Would you get the vaccine and why (yes or no)?

The company I work for is giving it free to all our employees. I still on the fence whether or not to proceed with getting it myself. Opinions welcome but I would prefer some feedback based upon actual empirical data.:ylsmoke:

Thanks!

[lwg]

No I wouldn't.

1) They haven't fully tested it, not sure if it even works. Don't know the side effects of the vaccine if there are any.

2) I generally don't trust the Government to put things unknown to me into my bloodstrean. To many X-Files episodes I suppose...

3) I think I may have just gotten over some sort of Flu the last week, thus my immune system should be in good shape now.

[chrismc]

The H1N1 vax is made using EXACTLY the same method as the seasonal flu vaccine, and has received EXACTLY as much testing (and is just as safe). If you normally get the flu vaccine, then you should definitely get the H1N1 vaccine. If you don't normally get it, then its probably a decision you should discuss with your doctor. Whatever you do, make sure you get your information about it from a licensed healthcare provider, not from the TV or Internet. Personally, I do volunteer work in coordination with the County Health Dept, and my girlfriend is finishing up med school. Based on the informed people I've discussed it with, I'm getting it (and haven't even thought twice about it).

[chrismc]

There was actually a good 60 Minutes segment about the vaccine tonight. When they asked an expert what the effect will be if people are afraid of the vaccine and don't get it, he responded very frankly: "More dead people". That pretty much sums it up.
Another nice tidbit (just for you, lwg): 10 million doses have been administered, and they have had zero reports of major side effect. Side effect reports have only included standard vax issues (sore arm, etc...).

The vaccine does not come from "The Goverment". It was developed by research institutions, and is manufactured by pharmaceutical companies. In fact, one of the six institutions that created the vaccine is my hometown St Louis University- a private, Jesuit school with an outstanding medical program. Much of the vaccine testing was done here in St Louis. Lay off the X-Files before bedtime. ;)

[6Pins]

I will be I plan on it. Vaccines are safe. Yes, there was a problem in the 70's with 400 people having and adverse reaction, out of 40,000,0000 doses. Those are pretty good odds in my book.

There was a really good article this month in Wired about vaccines and the impact of people not getting them. Scary stuff is starting to come back.

[H2O_Doc]

Real easy risk analysis on that one: yes, I will get one. I get flu shots every year.

[Streakerfreak]

My wife is a receptionist at a walk in medical clinic. Guess who has checked in all 20+ confirmed case of H1N1 patients to walk through there....you got it, my wife. The clinic has limited supplies right now, but as soon as they get more we will both be getting the vaccine.

Honestly, if your company has the vaccine and is giving them out for free, then there is really no reason not to. Remember, if your not on the high-priority list it will be very hard to get it another way.

[DurangoSteve]

I won't be getting the vaccine. I have experienced H1N1 upclose and personal. It sucked. A week of hideous chills, body aches, awful respiratory crap, a cough that hurt my heart. A hacking cough that lasted for weeks afterwards. Bad news.

If you're a pretty robust person, I wouldn't bother...IF you don't mind the possibility of a week of hell. If you are not healthy, I would absolutely get the vaccine. This is an especially nasty strain of the flu. If you have any serious health issues, don't hesitate. Glenn Beck is an idiot. Ignore him.

lwg, you mentioned that you just got over "some kind of flu." H1N1 isn't run of the mill. Besides the aforementioned symptoms, the incredibly rapid onset is a real differentiator from other types of flu. I had the sniffles and some post nasal drip, and within 4 hours I was sick as a dog. Never had anything like that before.

[grouch]

I won't get it. Every time I get a normal flu vaccine, I get the flu. I don't see any reason to add something into me that doesn't belong there. As far as the doctor on 60 minutes goes, that is what he does so of course he will suggest getting one. I am quite positive if you ask an chiropractor, he will suggest an alignment for the same ailment.

[PathfinderTR]

One has to wonder what is going to happen next year (or even next week perhaps), when there is the possibility that this thing slightly mutates, and the current shot is useless. I see this becoming a yearly thing from here on out.

BTW, no I currently do not plan on getting one.

[RogerH]

My wife and I both got the H1N1 vaccine. I got the nasal spray and she got the injection. We are both Registered Nurses and in the ER. Some of our colleagues did not get it.

I guess what pushed me "over the fence" was seeing (2) patients in their 20's and (1) in his 30's be admitted to the hospital with H1N1 and they eventually died. Now there were many admitted that eventually went home, but the fact that these were young healthy adults was the surprise. As a previous poster stated, the vaccine is produced just like the seasonal vaccine and many have been given without incident.

Some years I get the flu vaccine, others I don't. Sometimes I get the flu even if I had the shot, it just means that I picked up a different strain, or I was exposed just about the time I was vaccinated.

Everyone has their reasons/beliefs. To each their own!:coffeedrink:

[Streakerfreak]

One thing needs to be cleared up here

Many people believe the flu/H1N1 shot can cause the flu. There is no live virus in the vaccine so it truly cannot cause the flu. However, some people do experience one of the common fall or winter viruses shortly after vaccination and will simply mistake those infections for the flu. Other times they have picked up a different strain then what the shot was for or have been infected around the time of the shot so they mistake it for the shot giving them the flu.

I poo pooed the H1N1 Virus like many others and payed no attention to it...that was until Jenn started to check in infected patients daily. She started working there back in October 2008 and since that time she has brought home and given me 2 different strains of flu, 3 Upper respiratory infections, and 2 multi day stomach bugs.

[RogerH]

You are correct! (The nasal spray for H1N1 is considered "live" but attenuated, meaning it has lost its virility).

[Streakerfreak]

You are correct! (The nasal spray for H1N1 is considered "live" but attenuated, meaning it has lost its virility).


Right, though I keep forgetting about the nasal spray.

[Desolation]

Went to the Dr'z last week a follow up visit.
He asks me if I am going to get a flue shot, actually advised it.
I asked which I should get and he says I have to get the shot and that even if I wanted it, I could not get it, because there isn't any available.
I said fine because I didn't really plan on getting one, but if I change my mind... The reply was by the time we get enough, you wont need to get one. RIP:Wow1:

[78Bronco]

I'm not getting the vax. It's just the flu. Media is serving FEAR. People die of the flu every year, so H1N1 wont be any different. So much for evolution, humanns are getting weaker and weaker.

[RMP&O]

Heck NO I wouldn't get the vaccine. I don't trust the government to have my health in their best interest. Just look at the FDA for many examples of that. Also the vaccine is proving to be worse for you then the swine flu. Not to mention how quickly it was rushed out, no way it has been tested enough.

There are other ways to beat the flu and or not get it besides taking some governement cooked up shots.

my .02

[HanzoSteel]

I'm healthy and usually never get sick so I won't be getting it, but I would recommend a child getting it.

[AndrewP]

Heck NO I wouldn't get the vaccine. I don't trust the government to have my health in their best interest. Just look at the FDA for many examples of that. Also the vaccine is proving to be worse for you then the swine flu. Not to mention how quickly it was rushed out, no way it has been tested enough.

There are other ways to beat the flu and or not get it besides taking some governement cooked up shots.

my .02


There are a lot of uninformed people out there and you seem to be one of them. As has been stated, this isn't the government's vaccine. And tell me how it's worse than getting the H1N1 virus itself? It will keep you from getting this particular strain of influenza A.

This Influenza is not really different from any influenza A. Most healthy people will have a 7-10 days of illness and a week or two of recovery. No big deal right? Except a few will die, as with any influenza A. With the vaccine you get to skip the 3 weeks of illness/recovery. And you won't end up in the dead pool either. That's a pretty good deal.

I fully agree that the media has hyped this like the OJ Simpson trial. It makes people watch the news. It is just the flu, but it's real flu, and most people don't have even partial immunity to this strain.

Remember that in industrial settings, influenza vaccines cut winter absences from work by 40%. That says something right there.

If you have access to this vaccine, take advantage of it. There is no downside.

And yes, I have personally had the vaccine.

[ddog45]

I am a respiratory therapist in Longmont and feel if you dont want to get the shot or nasal spray quit talking about it and get out of the way so someone who wants it or feels they need it. Im so sick of hearing people complain about it if you dont want the vaccine and want to gamble on not geting the flu go for it. We have had a few deaths related to the flu in people with other health issues. I am young I am healthy and I feel good about my health but when patients come into the hospital and cough in my face I feel the need to protect myself anyway possible a little huf of the flu doesnt seem nearly as bad as ending up on a ventilator.
If you are overweight and out of shape maybe you should cut to the front of the line because you are at more risk than the rest of us.
Good luck stay healthy:victory:

[Life_in_4Lo]

There was actually a good 60 Minutes segment about the vaccine tonight. When they asked an expert what the effect will be if people are afraid of the vaccine and don't get it, he responded very frankly: "More dead people". That pretty much sums it up.
Another nice tidbit (just for you, lwg): 10 million doses have been administered, and they have had zero reports of major side effect. Side effect reports have only included standard vax issues (sore arm, etc...).

The vaccine does not come from "The Goverment". It was developed by research institutions, and is manufactured by pharmaceutical companies. In fact, one of the six institutions that created the vaccine is my hometown St Louis University- a private, Jesuit school with an outstanding medical program. Much of the vaccine testing was done here in St Louis. Lay off the X-Files before bedtime. ;)

I saw this 60 minutes also. They asked if there were side effects and the doctor said "we looked hard but couldn't find one case" It was all sore arm, tiredness, etc.
But I remembered another story I saw on tv just last week-
http://a11news.com/2477/h1n1-flu-shot-cripples-cheerleader/

That freaked me out!

[matt s]

A little reading on that reveals that it happened before the h1n1 was even out, and that she had some pre-existing neurological condition.

[Life_in_4Lo]

yeah I just saw it on tv
here's what I saw, it's really sad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug__x-FnOE4

edit-
wow, 60 minutes swine flu show from '76!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTOXkyaFv4

now i'm not a conspiracy theorist and am not against medicine but this stuff is interesting- just put it in context and don't go nuts about it! ;)

[Antichrist]

The H1N1 vax is made using EXACTLY the same method as the seasonal flu vaccine, and has received EXACTLY as much testing (and is just as safe).Considering that every flu shot ever administered could be considered a test, I don't see how you can say one just developed could be tested as much.

I've never gotten a flu shot and have no plans to get this one.

[R_Lefebvre]

I'm still on the fence. I have a pretty strong immune system, I've never gotten a vaccine before and rarely get sick. The only thing that has me thinking about getting this one is the fact (what the media is saying anyway) that this hits young healthy people harder, because their body over-reacts to it, and you end up with pulmonary edima and die from that.

But I also am fearful that this was rushed out and not tested enough. I've got my tinfoil hat on, and see that... Big Pharma has gotten a lot of money out of this. The Canadian government bought enough shots to vaccinate EVERYONE in Canada. Normally only a small fraction get it. So they're getting big money.

At least, up until now, the H1N1 strain has shown to be LESS deadly than the regular seasonal flu, on a deaths per infection basis. Again, I only have second thoughts because it affects young healthy people more. Last week a 13 year old boy was killed very quickly. Came down with symptoms on Sunday, father took him to the doctor, they said "he'll be fine, just the flu, go home". He did, and he died Monday night.

[stevenmd]

Thank you for your replies everyone. A little bit of history on me: I am a pretty healthy guy - except for genetically high cholesterol for which I take medication - I eat healthy, work out 4 -5 times per week, etc. I have gotten the flu vaccine in the past and I have gotten sick every time - not the yearly fall/winter seasonal crap, I'm talking about being really really sick.

I recently had a two week bought of flu-like symptoms, but kept myself dehydrated and was/am now fine.

I am in daily contact with patients who have the H1N1 and have been for months now. I am not concerned for myself but for my children. I don't want to bring anything home to them.

FYI - I had that Asian bird flu in the late 90's that went around... it sucked but I survived just fine.

I guess I'm still on the fence. I would like to see more studies about this.

[Ursidae69]

I last heard that health care folks, teens and younger and the very old would get the vaccine. There was not enough time to make one for every citizen this year so they prioritized. Has that changed? I get the nomal flu shot every year and I will get the h1n1 vaccine if I can find it. Imagine 40% of the entire workforce in the USA out this fall sick for weeks at a time? If you have the chance, get the vaccine I say.

[1speed]

I won't get the vaccine, I've never had a flu shot. I'm sure I've had the flu before, but I try not to go to doctors so I've never been "officially" diagnosed.

I also believe in black helicopters and have a tin foil hat. :REOutShootinghunter

[Rando]

I can't tell you whether or not to get the flu (seasonal or H1N1) shot, for that you need to talk to your primary health care provider. At the very least, if you must get your info from the web, go to a site peer reviewed by medical doctors such as webMD.

One thing I can tell you, as a doctor (but not a medical one :) ), getting health info from tin foilers on a 4WD discussion forum is bad for your health.

[Hilldweller]

I can't find the shot available around here; nor can I find shots for the seasonal flu any longer.

[fowldarr]

They are way behind on the scheduled number of vaccines. I'm not surprised you can't find it anywhere. Right now, we have it for health care providers, and some of the high risk groups (pregnant, multiple comorbidities, child care providers etc.)

[Martinjmpr]

One thing I can tell you, as a doctor (but not a medical one :) ), getting health info from tin foilers on a 4WD discussion forum is bad for your health.

I think of it as natural selection. ;)

Every year I was in the Army I got a flu shot. We were told (anecdotally, don't know if it would be legally valid) that if we refused the flu shot and got the flu, we could be punished administratively (article 15.)

Besides that, being in a unit that frequently had to travel to sub-saharan Africa, we got vaccinated for just about everything: Yellow fever, cholera, Hep A and B (each one a 2 shot series) Gamma Globulins (just before deploying to Haiti in 1994), anti-malarials (incluing Mefloquine, which we called "crazy pills), a bunch of other stuff I don't even remember and of course the infamous Anthrax vaccine when I deployed to the middle east in 2004.

Never had a bad reaction that I could trace to any of those shots so I just have to smile and shake my head at the tinfoil hat crowd.

Besides, every Dale Gribble wannabe out there knows the government doesn't put mind control drugs into vaccines - that's what chemtrails (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory)are for! :P

[R_Lefebvre]

I can't find the shot available around here; nor can I find shots for the seasonal flu any longer.

Our evil social healthcare system somehow wrangled one of the large pharmacuetical manufacturers in Canada to prioritize production to provide enough for to immunize everyone here. I understand this has affected worldwide supply because there are only 6 manufacturers? Sorry about that. ;) Actually though, they outright cancelled the regular seasonal flu vaccine production. Something about a study showing that people who got the regular shot last year, were twice as likely to have gotten H1N1 last spring. No idea on the causality of that.


One thing I can tell you, as a doctor (but not a medical one ), getting health info from tin foilers on a 4WD discussion forum is bad for your health.

Actually, I come to places like this to get a "second opinion". The diversity of knowledge in places like this is incredible. Some of the worst advice I've ever gotten is from doctors.


I am not concerned for myself but for my children. I don't want to bring anything home to them.


I forgot to mention, but that's also one of the reasons I'm considering it. I have a newborn and almost 4 year old at home.

I'm just so skeptical becuase this is being pushed so hard, and it's non-sensical. This started last spring, they made a huge deal, and it was so not a big deal. In fact, the death rate per person infected is less than the regular flu was. So why all the hype?

[roadkill]

I've read that many have been infected and have either not needed medical attention and/or were never admitted to a hospital but the CDC has the mortality rate based on only those admitted to a hospital.

first SARS, then avian bird flu and now swine flu. wonder what the next "panic" will be. IMO its all media hype.

edit to add, I am not going to get the shot. I've read enough about the lack of testing and use of adjuvents that I want no part of it.

[R_Lefebvre]

Roadkill, that is a good point. Early on they were only counting "cases" in the rare occaision somebody was hospitalized. So the "mortality" was artificially high. It was later on in the spring when they started getting a better handle on it that they started counting real cases they realize the mortality rate was lower than the regular flu.

And, they're not even testing for it anymore, which is leading to some interesting results.

The 13 year old boy, presented to hospital with flu symptoms. They didn't even get a doctor to examine him. The triage nurse just looked at him, said he had the regular flu, don't worry about it and go home. He died the next day. Rumor here at work was a guy was diagnosed with H1N1. Panic ensued until we got the full story. He went to his doctor, looked at him and said "Well, it's too early in the season for regular flu, it must be H1N1, so quarantine yourself for 3 days."

And don't get me started on the hand sanitizing thing. My wife had a baby last week so I was in and out of the hospital several times. They now have this security booth set up, they stop you , ask you if you have symptoms, give you a mask if you do. In either case, you HAVE to use the hand sanitizer. So at one point, I'm carrying two suit cases, one in each hand. I set them down, use the sanitizer, then pick up the cases again. So if there was anything on my hands, I just cross-contaminated again with the suitcase handles. It's completely pointless.

The doctors just don't want to come out and say "Look, there's nothing we can do. If you get it, you get it." So they just put out this "wash your hands" thing. Now kids are getting dermatitis on their hands from excessive washing.

[Superu]

Since you asked.

Yes, I am planning on getting the H1N1 as soon as it is available here. My entire family (2 adults, 3 kids 10, 8 & 4) has already been vaccinated for seasonal flu and my 4 yr. old has had the H1N1 vaccine as well.

At this time, my 10 year old is 2 days w/o a fever after a bout with flu that is waiting to be confirmed as H1N1. Since he was vaccinated over a month ago for seasonal and due to the rapid onset of symptoms, our pediatrician feels it is more likely than not that it is H1N1. We'll find out soon enough and yes, he will be getting the vaccine next week at school.

My 8 year old just got back from the doctor's office and is in the same boat now with 102.8 fever. The variable here is that he also has asthma which makes him more vulnerable than average to complications from flu. My wife is picking up his scrip for Tamiflu as I type this.

Add to that the 12 year old girl in the next town who recently died suddenly after appearing to get better from the flu and rapidly deteriorating (yes, she has been confirmed H1N1 positive with no known underlying health issues, in otherwise excellent health and fitness and well regarded youth soccer player.) and I will hedge my bets with the vaccine rather than against it.

Finally, maybe the fact that I work in Biotech/Pharma and I know well the dedication and selflessness that many of our doctors, scientists and lab techs exhibit makes me less likely to buy into the Govt./BigPharma/Boogeyman conspiracy theories.

There are plenty of areas on which I don't trust big business and government, but this isn't one of them.

[howell_jd]

I say get the vaccination if available. And be prepared for a mutation...not necessarily an H1N1 mutation but any number of possible mutations. It's a fact of life that viruses abound. Consider this though, tuberculosis (caused by a bacterium not a virus) used to be a leading cause of death in America (and continues to plague many areas of the world) but is hardly a contributing factor to early death anymore because of preventative measures. That's why an H1N1 (and future vaccines for any and many flu strains) is advisable. I've been stuck with needles, given oral doses of vaccine, snorted mists, had vaccine delivered direct through skin (like a liquid needle - ouch). Gov't experimentation perhaps but in my line of work missing a day because of sniffles affects mission readiness.

[lwg]

The H1N1 vax is made using EXACTLY the same method as the seasonal flu vaccine, and has received EXACTLY as much testing (and is just as safe). If you normally get the flu vaccine, then you should definitely get the H1N1 vaccine. If you don't normally get it, then its probably a decision you should discuss with your doctor. Whatever you do, make sure you get your information about it from a licensed healthcare provider, not from the TV or Internet. Personally, I do volunteer work in coordination with the County Health Dept, and my girlfriend is finishing up med school. Based on the informed people I've discussed it with, I'm getting it (and haven't even thought twice about it).

I don't get the regular flu vaccine for the very same reason I won't get the H1N1 vaccine. For now, my immune system is plenty strong to handle the flu. Not getting the vaccine allows it to do its job properly and build up proper immunity.

I really not a tin-foiler per se. There is tons of research and logic behind my decision. My wife works in health care (Dr's office) and tons of folks are coming in with the flu right now. She still hasn't had any of her patients hospitalized.

To the folks who work in ER's and such, you are just as polarized about this as others. Keep in mind that by the time somebody with H1N1 reaches you they are probably in pretty bad shape. I would guess/assume that for every person hospitalized for H1N1 there are literally thousands who aren't. Thus you are more likely to see the bad side of this virus.

[kjp1969]

One thing I can tell you, as a doctor (but not a medical one :) ), getting health info from tin foilers on a 4WD discussion forum is bad for your health.

Funny stuff. My whole family will be getting the H1N1, if we can find it.

[Life_in_4Lo]

currently not avail at my doctor

[Root Moose]

I got my shot today... but I was wearing my tin foil hat so the government mind control drugs can't take hold.

[RMP&O]

There are a lot of uninformed people out there and you seem to be one of them. As has been stated, this isn't the government's vaccine. And tell me how it's worse than getting the H1N1 virus itself? It will keep you from getting this particular strain of influenza A.

Perhaps I am misinformed but I still won't be getting any shots. I don't get flu shots of any kind. The only shots I get are vacs for Yellow Fever, Dengu Fever, Malaria, ect when I travel. I also skip on taking my malaria pills most of the time when I travel.

I still stand behind my statement...the FDA apporves many things for safe consupmtion that are well known and proven to be very harmful to humans. I feel the same is true with the medical industry so unless I really need something I am not taking it. I live healthy, eat well and take care of myself. Last time I had a cold was 5+yrs ago. Last time I had the stomach flu was 3+yrs ago. If you take care of yourself and practice good hygine you very rarely get sick.

Swine flu doesn't scare me one bit. Neither did SARS. Millions of people die every year from smoking cigs or drinking booz or living unhealthy lives. That doesn't seem to be important though to those in charge. If the cash being spent on Swine Flu was spent on other things more important maybe we could come up with some real results for real problems.

I don't care if anyone wants to get the shots, that is your choice. But I will never get the shots. If I get sick I have many ways of getting rid of the virus using natural methods that work very well for me. Just for poo and giggles here is a video of one of many different things you can take to prevent getting sick or get rid of a virus. Watch the movie if you are interested and take it for what it is....I am not trying to cause arguements by linking it just showing other things are out there besides shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGjUp1zoov8

[Lost Canadian]

I got mine this morning. The way I look at it, what's one more? I've been immunized against MMR, tetanus/diphtheria, hep A&B, polio, typhoid, yellow fever, meningococcal meningitis, cholera, and who knows what else. I don't get sick very often, but when I do it seems to kick the snot out of me,...and I don't particularly enjoy it. So I'll take my chances with the one in a bajillion odds that I'll have an adverse reaction if it means I won't get sick from H1N1.

[Superu]

Perhaps I am misinformed but I still won't be getting any shots. I don't get flu shots of any kind. The only shots I get are vacs for Yellow Fever, Dengu Fever, Malaria, ect when I travel. I also skip on taking my malaria pills most of the time when I travel.

I still stand behind my statement...the FDA apporves many things for safe consupmtion that are well known and proven to be very harmful to humans. I feel the same is true with the medical industry so unless I really need something I am not taking it. I live healthy, eat well and take care of myself. Last time I had a cold was 5+yrs ago. Last time I had the stomach flu was 3+yrs ago. If you take care of yourself and practice good hygine you very rarely get sick.

Swine flu doesn't scare me one bit. Neither did SARS. Millions of people die every year from smoking cigs or drinking booz or living unhealthy lives. That doesn't seem to be important though to those in charge. If the cash being spent on Swine Flu was spent on other things more important maybe we could come up with some real results for real problems.

I don't care if anyone wants to get the shots, that is your choice. But I will never get the shots. If I get sick I have many ways of getting rid of the virus using natural methods that work very well for me. Just for poo and giggles here is a video of one of many different things you can take to prevent getting sick or get rid of a virus. Watch the movie if you are interested and take it for what it is....I am not trying to cause arguements by linking it just showing other things are out there besides shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGjUp1zoov8

I guess I'm missing something here. Smoking and drinking are conscious choices. Are you saying that one can simply "choose" not to get influenza? Seems to me that plenty of clean living people still get the flu every year.

And what exactly, should "those in charge" do about people drinking and smoking? :coffee:

[RMP&O]

I guess I'm missing something here. Smoking and drinking are conscious choices. Are you saying that one can simply "choose" not to get influenza? Seems to me that plenty of clean living people still get the flu every year.

And what exactly, should "those in charge" do about people drinking and smoking? :coffee:

I am not always atriculate... :rolleyes:

I guess I am saying and do feel that how you live your life has a big effect on if you get sick or not. So in a way I guess that yeah we do chose to some extent to get sick or not. Key words there are "to some extent." A large majority of adults get sick at work (office) or when their kids bring it home. So if we practiced a bit better hygine in these enviroments IMHO there would be much less flu going around. Also if people stayed home when they were sick instead of going to work or school or the grocery store less viruses would get spread around. True that is not completely possible or realistic but how often do you see a sick person in an airport or in the grocery store? Sneazing, coughing and wiping snot on their hands is how viruses like the flu get spread. By going out in public they are just spreading it around.....

You are right bad habits are personal choice, including eating at McD's everyday. I don't know what those in charge should do...I am just not very happy with what they are doing. I don't feel cigs & booz should be illegal but come on these things kill more people than just about anything else. It just seems a bit silly to me how worried people get about something like the Swine flu when there are much more serious health probs in our society, even worse in poorer countries. It also seems to me that if we focused on the serious problems more devoting more resources to those problems it would help people more than worrying about a flu virus that really isn't all that serious.

[superpowerdave]

We haven't been given the choice to get the shot yet, and to me that's pretty stark. I'm a military guy, and the government normally makes sure the guys on the front line get what they feel the country needs before the rest of the country ... and they make it mandatory.

The base hospital told me there were no plans to innoculate the active duty members unless they requested it.

On one hand I agree that the media hyped this up something fierce. On the other hand, there is a kernel of truth buried deep in all that garbage they feed us on the nightly news in my opinion. All those scary reports about the vaccinations doing terrible things to people can't all be fiction.

Sure, there is risk with every vaccination, but saying that it's been tested as long and in as many people as the standard flu shot is preposterous. The test bed on the standard flu shot is decades old, while swine flue broke out while I was in Iraq this last time ... less than a year ago.

[Superu]

Sure, there is risk with every vaccination, but saying that it's been tested as long and in as many people as the standard flu shot is preposterous. The test bed on the standard flu shot is decades old, while swine flue broke out while I was in Iraq this last time ... less than a year ago.

With all due respect, the test bed of which you speak is the same testbed used for the Novel H1N1 vaccine. Although, some might argue that it's better than the average. The biggest differences from the production and testing of the standard seasonal flu vaccine (which itself differs in composition from year to year) are three-fold.


The Novel H1N1 virus grows a bit more slowly than the average flu virus we've seen in recent years so supply has been constrained.
Instead of only one major US medical center working on the efficacy and safety testing as is usually the case, this year all 8 sanctioned facilities are involved which actually ends up giving you a larger statistical sample in a shorter amount of time than standard trials.
Processing of FDA paperwork (electronic filings actually) has been prioritized and accelerated. Not reduced or eliminated.


Those are the facts, not the hype, from someone who works directly in the biotech/pharma industry and is very familiar with these processes.

That said, I'm not here to convince anyone what to do about their personal health decisions, just concerned that the hype is obscuring the facts about this situation. The OP asked for feedback from the forum and this is mine. Hope it's helpful to someone. :ylsmoke:

[Superu]

You are right bad habits are personal choice, including eating at McD's everyday. I don't know what those in charge should do...I am just not very happy with what they are doing. I don't feel cigs & booz should be illegal but come on these things kill more people than just about anything else. It just seems a bit silly to me how worried people get about something like the Swine flu when there are much more serious health probs in our society, even worse in poorer countries. It also seems to me that if we focused on the serious problems more devoting more resources to those problems it would help people more than worrying about a flu virus that really isn't all that serious.

I happen to agree with some of what you've said here about attention to serious health problems here and in the developing nations.

Bjorn Lomborg's book Cool It: The Skeptical Environmentalist's Guide to Global Warming comes to mind. In it he explains that there are many ways we could better be spending money and resources to improve conditions for people globally than those that are in the news most frequently and therefore become most popular.

In the case of the H1N1 vaccine, I personally feel it is of value and worthwhile. Doesn't negate my feeling that other areas need attention, just that given the widespread nature of this virus, there is value in taking measures to reduce its impact. :ylsmoke:

[stevenmd]

I say get the vaccination if available. And be prepared for a mutation...not necessarily an H1N1 mutation but any number of possible mutations.

Correct. They are already getting prepared for a combination of the H5N and the H1N1.

After speaking with several of our staff physicians for a few hours, specifically about the history of vaccines and how this current batch is produced, I feel absolutely comfortable with modern production of vaccines.

I will be getting the H1N1 shot tomorrow. It is being offered to all our staff. I noticed the only ones not getting the shot are those who have, well, without trying to be stereotypical here, beliefs is such things like Santeria, etc.

From what I have been hearing on the news, these shots are now like gold. It seems every place is out of them or did not receive them. I am glad I work in a high risk area and have the opportunity to receive the shot.

Thanks for all the input everyone and I wish everyone a healthy winter!

[DaveInDenver]

I don't get flu shots of any kind.
Same here, I have always skipped getting flu shots. But for a number of years now I have been taking vitamin D3 (a higher dose in the winter particularly, about 4000 IU spread over the day) and a multi-vitamin that includes selenium and vitamin E. It's not that I'm just some nut, this has been my plan for most of my adult life with my doctor's advice. It you look at the research it seems to show that people who otherwise should be fine (i.e. young and middle age healthy adults) contract the flu often get more sick than they should because of nutritional deficiency. A big reason you get sick more in the winter is the lack of sunlight and the decrease in vitamin D produced by your body. Vitamin D is crucial to your immune system's efficiency and most people are badly deficient from unhealthy diets. There is also evidence that vitamin D deficiency is linked with an increase in cancer rates, too. It's a combination of being inside more now and wide use of sunblock, the UV inhibitors make natural vitamin D production decrease in your skin.

I should make the point that my plan is pretty much in full agreement with my doctor, who recommends helping your body do what it does naturally rather than pimping drugs. He's not some new age hippie doctor either, but grew up on a farm in Iowa and been practicing for 35 years now. We do drugs for some things when it seems like the right choice, so it's not a complete aversion to it but rather trying to minimize it. Some of his other patients just want the shot, no second thought. But he's fine to work with others who prefer not to resort to a drug for everything.

So does all this make me a Santeria believer? If so, alright. But how is that any different than everyone believing that just getting a shot each winter can make up for 364 days of eating like crap and not exercising? Is that not a blind faith, too?

[stevenmd]

I'm not sure how vitamin D can protect you from a viral infection, specifically H1N1. Vitamin D does not have the power to "crack open the envelope" of a virus, thus causing it to die. Vitamin D is not specifically formulated to attack the proteins in the DNA strand of a virus.

I'm sure one's health comes into play at some point in regards to whether or not you contract a virus; however, I would think a predisposition to exposure would be more a determination of contraction.

Of course, I will also be offering a sacrifice to (insert deity here) just in case the H1N1 shot in ineffective.:elkgrin:

[DurangoSteve]

Goat sacrifices are especially effective at keeping nasty viruses at bay. Or so I've been told...:ylsmoke:


I'm not sure how vitamin D can protect you from a viral infection, specifically H1N1. Vitamin D does not have the power to "crack open the envelope" of a virus, thus causing it to die. Vitamin D is not specifically formulated to attack the proteins in the DNA strand of a virus.

I'm sure one's health comes into play at some point in regards to whether or not you contract a virus; however, I would think a predisposition to exposure would be more a determination of contraction.

Of course, I will also be offering a sacrifice to (insert deity here) just in case the H1N1 shot in ineffective.:elkgrin:

[DaveInDenver]

I'm not a doctor, but his explanation was that vitamin D deficiency has correlation to how your immune system regulates itself. It's not preventing you from getting the flu but if you do come down with flu the illness is shorter and less virulent. Supposedly your body overproduces inflammatory cytokines when vitamin D deficient and pneumonia or epithelial reaction are generally why you get very sick or die from flu.

It's also supposedly why we get sicker in the winter, since less sun exposure makes you more susceptible to this. Also we tend to be more dehydrated in the winter which concentrates viruses and keeps them from being expelled. Like I say, I don't fault anyone for getting a flu shot but I don't feel it's the right thing for me and I didn't just come to this conclusion. I have not taken a flu shot in 15 years and the last time I got one I got very sick from it, which is why I started looking into it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19172691

Moro JR, Iwata M, von Andriano UH.

Gastrointestinal Unit, Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts 02114, USA. j_rodrigo_mora@harvard.hms.edu

Vitamins are essential constituents of our diet that have long been known to influence the immune system. Vitamins A and D have received particular attention in recent years as these vitamins have been shown to have an unexpected and crucial effect on the immune response. We present and discuss our current understanding of the essential roles of vitamins in modulating a broad range of immune processes, such as lymphocyte activation and proliferation, T-helper-cell differentiation, tissue-specific lymphocyte homing, the production of specific antibody isotypes and regulation of the immune response. Finally, we discuss the clinical potential of vitamin A and D metabolites for modulating tissue-specific immune responses and for preventing and/or treating inflammation and autoimmunity.

[H2O_Doc]

Y'all do know that vaccines USE our "natural" defense system to protect us, right? People are talking like its some sort of unnatural process. Maybe youre not getting exposed from my 4 year old's boogers, but its the same process.

[Root Moose]

Now, now - don't start talking sense - people like their plots that involve witchcraft.

[DaveInDenver]

Y'all do know that vaccines USE our "natural" defense system to protect us, right? People are talking like its some sort of unnatural process. Maybe youre not getting exposed from my 4 year old's boogers, but its the same process.
So do you feel that MF-59, i.e. ingested squalene, is a naturally occurring process? What about a dose of Thimerosal every year? Is that natural? What about some of the other things in flu shots, disodium-phosphate, Triton X-100, Tween 80, Trometamol? What the heck is all this stuff?

[H2O_Doc]

No, but that want at all my point and eatin' cheetos aint exactly natural either.

Focus : )

[DaveInDenver]

Now, now - don't start talking sense - people like their plots that involve witchcraft.
I assume that is directed at me, but I'm not the one taking the witch's brew in the arm every year. What's so awful about my approach? I'm not saying getting the flu is all peaches and cream, but I also think annual injections of mercury and aluminum don't come without risks, too.

No, but that want at all my point and eatin' cheetos aint exactly natural either.

Focus : )
Part of the reason I don't eat Cheetos... We try to avoid junk food in general, we make our own jam, bake our own bread. We ain't perfect granola heads but we try. I do drink store bought beer and lots of it.

[stevenmd]

Y'all do know that vaccines USE our "natural" defense system to protect us, right? People are talking like its some sort of unnatural process. Maybe youre not getting exposed from my 4 year old's boogers, but its the same process.

Correct. The vaccines cause our body to manufacture the anti-bodies that fight the specific disease. With the H1N1 vaccine, it causes our body to manufacture the anti-body to the protein that makes up the protective envelope of the H1N1 virus. If we contract H1N1, then the anti-bodies destroy the protective shell of the virus, thus causing the virus to die. This of course, is a very simplistic explanation.

[stevenmd]

I assume that is directed at me, but I'm not the one taking the witch's brew in the arm every year. What's so awful about my approach? I'm not saying getting the flu is all peaches and cream, but I also think annual injections of mercury and aluminum don't come without risks, too.

Part of the reason I don't eat Cheetos... We try to avoid junk food in general, we make our own jam, bake our own bread. We ain't perfect granola heads but we try. I do drink store bought beer and lots of it.

Hey buddy, leave Cheetos out of this... don't make it personal...:coffeedrink:

[DaveInDenver]

Correct. The vaccines cause our body to manufacture the anti-bodies that fight the specific disease. With the H1N1 vaccine, it causes our body to manufacture the anti-body to the protein that makes up the protective envelope of the H1N1 virus. If we contract H1N1, then the anti-bodies destroy the protective shell of the virus, thus causing the virus to die. This of course, is a very simplistic explanation.
Is this what your body would do normally when exposed to a virus? What is different about exposing your immune system via a vaccine compared from the environment, then?

[offroadsubie]

one thing I observed everywhere i go these days, all this panic about the
h1n1 and the vaccines, but I still see 80% of people go to public bathroom and do #1 or #2 and go out the door without washing their hands!!!! :Wow1:

[DaveInDenver]

Hey buddy, leave Cheetos out of this... don't make it personal...:coffeedrink:
I can't stand the way they make your fingers all nasty, ewww.

[H2O_Doc]

I do drink store bought beer and lots of it.
that makea you a good human being qualified to enjoy my company. Your other points are well taken.

[grouch]

one thing I observed everywhere i go these days, all this panic about the
h1n1 and the vaccines, but I still see 80% of people go to public bathroom and do #1 or #2 and go out the door without washing their hands!!!! :Wow1:

You did the math?

[DaveInDenver]

one thing I observed everywhere i go these days, all this panic about the
h1n1 and the vaccines, but I still see 80% of people go to public bathroom and do #1 or #2 and go out the door without washing their hands!!!! :Wow1:
No kidding. What's nasty is I've seen people do that at work. Dude, I know who you are and I see you in the lunch room and now you are handing me a stack of paper? People sometimes wonder why I keep a bottle of hand sanitizer at my desk. Duh.

[stevenmd]

Is this what your body would do normally when exposed to a virus? What is different about exposing your immune system via a vaccine compared from the environment, then?

Yes, this is what your body would do. However, look at it this way... say it takes your body a week to "naturally" produce the anti-bodies without prior exposure via the vaccine. It takes the H1N1 virus less than 1 day to seriously threaten your life. Not everyone's body can hang on 7 days for their body to produce the anti-body. Prior exposure via the vaccine means you already have the anti-bodies and your body can begin fighting immediately.

So as you can see, time plays a factor, which is especially important with the H1N1 virus.

[stevenmd]

I can't stand the way they make your fingers all nasty, ewww.

That's why I keep a box of latex gloves by the bed when I eat Cheetos... um, it just occurred to me that that comment can be taken sooooo many different ways...:elkgrin:

[H2O_Doc]

Sure, its for the cheetos.

And the Jergens....rough hands?

[DaveInDenver]

And here I thought talking about why I don't get a flu shot would be personal. Yikes!

[offroadsubie]

No kidding. What's nasty is I've seen people do that at work. Dude, I know who you are and I see you in the lunch room and now you are handing me a stack of paper? People sometimes wonder why I keep a bottle of hand sanitizer at my desk. Duh.



at least you work in a office(guessing), I'm a trucker, I see more public bathrooms(no funny jokes please :coffeedrink:) than my home one and it's mostly truckstops so imagine...got a "professionnal size" bottle of purell in my truck.

[stevenmd]

So I got the H1N1 nasal mist deal today.

So you have made a good argument on the pros and cons of getting the vaccine for yourself... but what about for your little ones?

What is your stance specifically on the H1N1 vaccine for children.

I have an 18 month old. I am trying to decide whether or not to have him vaccinated.

Your input?

Consult your pediatrician. As for me, all 5 will be getting the H1N1 vaccine.

[Superu]

Consult your pediatrician. As for me, all 5 will be getting the H1N1 vaccine.

X2 on the advice and personal experience. My 4 yo has had the intra-nasal, my 8 yo will get the vaccine on Monday after he's been off TamiFlu for 48+ hours and my 10 yo will get his next Friday at school. My 10 yo and 8 yo have been sick with the flu since last Thursday and Sunday respectively.

My wife and I will get our vaccines as soon as it's available for us.

New England Journal of Medicine has an interesting map (http://www.healthmap.org/nejm/) that you can animate to show the progression worldwide of cases in the past two weeks.

[R_Lefebvre]

Well, I just got it done. Did it for my kids. Well, mostly the baby who can't get vaccinated and they say is at risk.

[Explore Oregon]

No plan to get the H1N1 vaccine and here is a few of the reasons why.

1. It is hard to find around here and when some becomes available it goes before you know it.
2. I’m not in a priority demographic.
3. Unlike a lot of the people around me who are so afraid of the swine flu because of the media hype they would sell their mother to get a dose, I would rather let the dose I would use go to someone’s child or other high risk person who A. wants it and/or B. needs it.
4. I don’t get the regular flu shot and I don’t get the flu, I don’t see that this is going to be that much different. The last time I got anything worse than a cold was 20 years ago.