Mitsubishi vs the World

[DzlToy]

Since this is a Mitsubishi forum and its the only marque in the US that offers factory 4wd, there isnt much to compare to. However, I have been working on a research project which should culminate in a cabover 4wd truck built for camping, mountain biking, hiking, kayaking and cross country travel within North America.

I'm looking at UDs, NPRs, FGs, FEs and even FKs in the US. Looking about 2003 and up. So, I would be interested to hear from owners or builders what they like or dont like about each model truck. What would they change, upgrade or do differently if they could. (This does not include camper bodies or conversions, as that could be a whole other thread in itself.

I have access to excellent fabrication facilities so things like adding a front axle under a 2wd truck, replacing leaf springs with a link and coil suspension or swapping an entire driveline out are not a problem. I will start another thread on the buildup plans as soon as a platform is decided upon. I have narrowed down the choices in my mind already, but would like to hear what expo has to say about each model. What is your ultimate base cab/chassis and why?

Cheers,

Jon

[dsw4x4]

I will be in the same boat one of these days. I want to build a 4x4 camper based on a 4 door cab over and so far I am leaning towards npr or nrr crew cab with the short wheel base. Was looking at the late 90s with a cummins 6 cyl for ease of parts or possibly a newer one with a duramax. I am not sure the 4cyl wood be enough umph for pulling trailers in the mountains after the camper was built. Either way I am curious what other people have to say on this post. If I was wanting a single cab I would at least use a ftr cab so you had at least a little room behind the seats. I will do the 4wd conversion my self but I am curious what axle to use for something like this I have messed with heavy trucks before so that part is new to me.

[hinoranger]

I'd think about HINO. All of the asian trucks are good but HINO really has it figured out, IMO. The resale values will reflect that, too.

That said, the U.S. spec. FG isn't everything it could be but it's a pretty fair deal unless you're looking to spend a lot of time & $.

PM me & I'll tell U more when I'm not on my Ipod.

[lehel1]

hello

we love our fuso fg, we purchased new earlier this year and would definitely by it again hands down.

we test drove 2 2wd npr's and the 2wd fe and one other bigger fuso (can't remember the model, but one size bigger) before we decided on the fuso fg. one a 14500 gvwr and the other 19000 gvwr with a bigger motor. we were looking into doing a 4x4 conversion and originally thought we would want the bigger motor and rating. we weren't sure about what sounded like a low horsepower motor rating like the fuso. we definitly wanted more go from our new camper than our unimog camper.
also the company doing the 4x4 conversions for the ud trucks seems to be gone now.

it was an easy decision for us, there appears to be no manual transmission available here in the states for either the fe, ud or npr's 2wd. the difference in the auto vs manual especailly with all the new smog stuff was hugh, the auto feel like half power and worst when trying to climb any type hills in all trucks including the fuso fe. this was with empty trucks. oh a note here, the fuso fg only comes with a manual. some previous years had auto (like to hear from some of those owners how they like there trucks)


we find our fuso fg has plenty of power for our needs which includes regularly running at 14000 lbs in mountain country. the fuel mileage is great for a loaded truck. and our first 4wd drive adventure delivering 68 bales of hay to a customer after some big rains here was great. the exhaust brake on these things is the best i've seen on any truck i've driven. it works right down to idle without shutting off, and after unloading and climbing back out up the hill in horse **** and mud the fuso didn't slip a wheel literally. i don't think a domestic pickup without lockers and mod's would have made it out of there. we were happily surprised ; )

anyhow, sorry to babble. were just enjoying our truck

also, a small note on the npr. it seems at highway speeds they don't like there windows rolled down. the fludder was so bad we actually thought the side window's might break. it was a hot day, the good news is they got great air conditioning in those trucks.

cheers lehel and laura

p.s. forgot to mention, we did suspension grades and run super singles similar to the aussies at atwarrior. so were not a stock truck

[lehel1]

does the hino have a 4wd model available in the states ??

[hinoranger]

does the hino have a 4wd model available in the states ??

no, but since the original poster was asking about converting a 2wd I thought I'd throw that out there.

[max adams]

Right now there seems to be a surplus of the 189.4" wheelbase. We are shortening a bunch of these trucks to the other factory wheels bases for $1500 a truck. One might be able to get a good deal on a FE 180, because dealers are being given good incentive to take them.

[DzlToy]

Thanks for the replies...

To clarify a few things, I am interested in hearing things like rattling windows, controls that arent friendly, etc...features that are difficult to change on a particular chassis. Maybe a rattling window or whistling window, or a vibrating mirror isnt that hard to fix, but to me that indicates poor build quality or lack of attention to detail. Of course all of these things CAN be fixed, but I would prefer to spend my time and money on other things like 4wd conversion, engine swap, selectable lockers, interior/comfort upgrades, etc.

Some complaints on the small cabover trucks are lack of aftermarket support for things like lockers, engine and transmission mods, ring gear selection, etc. Many only come in automatic which along with the low power levels in the large 4 cylinder engine and lack of room in the cab, makes for a less than ideal travel experience. (FG manual noted)

My top two choices right now are 04-06 FK200 and a crew cab FE in the same year range. They have larger engine bays (ISB Cummins swap?) and more room in the cab. These models can be had for 20k - 30k in good condition. Add 20-30k in mods/upgrades and I have a very nice custom truck for the price of a stock 2010 FG standard cab with 155 hp, no selectable lockers, etc.

That is where my thinking is going now, so you guys tell me if I am crazy. My research indicates that Mitsu builds a better truck than Isuzu, but I have attached two PDFs that I found online authored by Isuzu. Maybe GM rubbed off on them too much, as both PDFs are titled incorrectly within the document, lol.

I looked at Hino trucks (owned by Toyota) and I am definitely a fan, just forgot to mention it above. They do build a very nice truck, typical Toyota build quality, but arent exactly easy to find.

[hinoranger]

large 4 cylinder engine and lack of room in the cab, makes for a dismal travel experience. (FG manual noted)

My top two choices right now are 04-06 FK200 and a crew cab FE in the same year range. They have larger engine bays (ISB Cummins swap?) and more room in the cab. These models can be had for 20k - 30k in good condition. Add 20-30k in mods/upgrades and I have a very nice custom truck for the price of a stock 2010 FG standard cab with 155 hp, no selectable lockers, etc.

In that size and price range, don't overlook HINO FD/FE. The 8.0L in this model is a detuned version of an engine used in much bigger trucks, including the Paris/Dakar machines, and shouldn't be hard to get 300hp or so out of it (not that I've done it); the cab is similar in size to that used on the FUSO FK. HINO build quality is top notch, they are expanding therir dealer network at a steady pace. I've had practically zero manufacturer-related problems with my 1998 SG, and have always enjoyed driving it; only complaint would be- like you say, lack of aftermarket accessories.

[haven]

"things like adding a front axle under a 2wd truck, replacing leaf springs with a link and coil suspension or swapping an entire driveline out are not a problem."

I think there's little reason to do mods like this when the FG provides a proven solution. You won't need the power and carrying capacity of a larger chassis unless you're planning to mount a _really_ big camper.

If your goal is camping and travel, then you'll spend less time and money in the planning and fabrication stages if you choose a factory solution. You'll get on the road sooner and have more money to spend on your travels. On the other hand, if your goal is to advertise your fabrication skills, then by all means, get out the welder.

Chip Haven

[engineer]

Thanks for the replies...

To clarify a few things, I am interested in hearing things like rattling windows, controls that arent friendly, etc...features that are difficult to change on a particular chassis. Maybe a rattling window or whistling window, or a vibrating mirror isnt that hard to fix, but to me that indicates poor build quality or lack of attention to detail. Of course all of these things CAN be fixed, but I would prefer to spend my time and money on other things like 4wd conversion, engine swap, selectable lockers, interior/comfort upgrades, etc.

Some complaints on the small cabover trucks are lack of aftermarket support for things like lockers, engine and transmission mods, ring gear selection, etc. Many only come in automatic which along with the low power levels in the large 4 cylinder engine and lack of room in the cab, makes for a less than ideal travel experience. (FG manual noted)

My top two choices right now are 04-06 FK200 and a crew cab FE in the same year range. They have larger engine bays (ISB Cummins swap?) and more room in the cab. These models can be had for 20k - 30k in good condition. Add 20-30k in mods/upgrades and I have a very nice custom truck for the price of a stock 2010 FG standard cab with 155 hp, no selectable lockers, etc.

That is where my thinking is going now, so you guys tell me if I am crazy. My research indicates that Mitsu builds a better truck than Isuzu, but I have attached two PDFs that I found online authored by Isuzu. Maybe GM rubbed off on them too much, as both PDFs are titled incorrectly within the document, lol.

I looked at Hino trucks (owned by Toyota) and I am definitely a fan, just forgot to mention it above. They do build a very nice truck, typical Toyota build quality, but arent exactly easy to find.

Sounds to me like you need a MAN or Unimog. They heve very high build quality. Take it from me, European stuff is built to last....

[DzlToy]

Trying to stay away from a Mog or MAN type trucks for several reasons. Dont have anything against them, just wrong for this application.

The SG HINO that i found is 33k GVW, which is too big, unless I super size my plans.

How do the older trucks hold up?

Get this cheap: http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=2195264

and just build it however I want.. swap the cab for a crew or something larger, SAS (solid Axle swap), engine swap, etc.

Thinking about something like this for the camper:

http://www.piggybackcampers.com.au/grey%20demo%201.JPG

http://www.piggybackcampers.com.au/Single%20Cab%20Free%20Standing.jpg

nothing fancy, maybe a pop top like Maggiolina with a tented kitchen on one side and supplies on the other? Dont need a huge RV and may consider removing it and using the truck for other stuff.

My focus right now is deciding on the chassis, the other stuff can be done on any truck. I realise the FG will be fine for such a small camper. My mod plans were due to other options being available or other uses of the truck. Maybe I will just build another one for that...:D

[kerry]

How do the older trucks hold up?

Get this cheap: http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=2195264

and just build it however I want.. swap the cab for a crew or something larger, SAS, engine, etc.



Thought you were looking for a 4wd. Why an FE instead of an FG? Older Fuso's seem to hold up well. That's pretty low mileage on that one. My FG has 180k on it and is holding up well. Engine was replaced under warranty, near as I can tell. Syncros are worn on the 5 spd but that problem is overcome by double clutching. Pretty typical from what I've read about Fuso manual transmissions in the FG.

[dhackney]

We own a 2007 Fuso FG.

Mods:

Air seats
Dynamat soundproofing for cab
Lengthened frame
Custom spring packs to match weight
Bilstein shocks
Custom rear sway bar
The rest is too much to mention. Definitely the most expensive FG ever built, but I don't think the rest is related to the chassis.


Upsides:

Very, very quiet in the cab. Eerily quiet.
Incredibly easy to drive. Drives more like a car than a 14k GVW truck. This is a factor that you don't consider before you build but is the top day-to-day factor in full time overlanding. Don't underestimate the toll a super capable, do-anything, go-anywhere chassis takes on you moving from cool place to cool place.
Very well built. No rattles, squeaks, etc. Anywhere. And to be honest, we've done things to this truck that would get us arrested if Fuso had a sheriff.
Extremely tight turning radius. This is the most important dimension in day-to-day full time overlanding.
Base chassis is sold in over 150 countries, global parts and service.
Very strong motor, trans and driveline capable of pulling an extremely (think: galactic scale) load. Not that I'd know personally about this, mind you. I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who says... :)


Downsides:

No aftermarket locking front diff (when we built the truck in 2006, may be different now)
Small diameter wheels and tires.
Limited GVW. The truck is great if you stay light.
4.5 mm frame. See previous point.
Very flexible frame, which can be an upside, but more or less forces you to isolate the camper box from the torsional twisting of the frame, especially in the type of use you are describing.



Comments:

For the weight of your payload, it would make more sense to build on a NA market pickup type chassis, especially considering the availability of aftermarket parts.

If you are set on a cab-over / forward control chassis for whatever reason, then I think you'd be better off to buy an FG, slap your desired camper on the back and go.

The biggest lesson I strive to teach people who are in your stage of the process is: It's not about the truck, it's about the experiences.

As Chip said, if a big part of the experience for you is the fabrication, then by all means, go to it.

If, however, your primary goal is to overland North America, then leave now with less versus later with more.

You can see at least 95% of the world's most interesting places in a 2wd VW van. You are considering expending a huge amount of energy to cover the next 2, maybe 3%. Based on 43 countries and six continents of travel, you'd be better off to leave tomorrow with what you've got and rent something locally to see the last 5%. Or strap on a dirt bike. Either way, again, go now with less versus later with more.

[Joaquin Suave]

Chip wrote:

If your goal is camping and travel, then you'll spend less time and money in the planning and fabrication stages if you choose a factory solution. You'll get on the road sooner and have more money to spend on your travels.

Doug wrote:

As Chip said, if a big part of the experience for you is the fabrication, then by all means, go to it.

Take it from someone that is one year and change into a MAJOR remodel of his adventure vehicle...

Buy a stock vehicle and go out and have fun with it!!!!

****
BUT! Don't think that you are so smart that you can defy physics...DON'T OVERLOAD IT!

Hopefully you'll listen to me...But I doubt it, no one else has.

[DzlToy]

thanks for the replies from the two veteran explorers...

My plan is definitely to stay light and simple, no big RVs or camperboxes for me. If I were going to do that, I would look at a Unicat or MAN or MOG or something large for sure.

One of the reasons that I posted the small camper box above is something of that design is simple and light. Its easier to add than to take away IMO.

I am also considering building a larger version (FTR, FK, FM, etc) for a tow rig, so the research on things like cab quietness, turning radius, overall build quality etc will help me there too.

I do like many features of the cabover trucks and I prefer to stay away from large American pickup trucks. My only alternative would be an older Toyota truck with a setup similar to the one I posted previously. I believe however, that an FG is a far superior platform to that, even as much as I love my Toyotas.

Anyone have detailed specs on FG axles? I dont see any reason that you could not install a Dana or AAM type axle under that truck leaving everything else stock and this would give options for things like aftermarket gears and lockers and of course parts are just as readily available if required.


Cheers,

Jon

[Head2Wind]

FG 1993, USDM

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_peAio9mDcUM/SxBiIH0Z0GI/AAAAAAAAHrM/7JpdXemR47E/s800/P1010438.JPGk

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_peAio9mDcUM/SxBiIjmZPRI/AAAAAAAAHrQ/9Ja_IRLXvEw/s800/P1010439.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_peAio9mDcUM/SxBiJPH9DjI/AAAAAAAAHrU/7BBaayK3Nc8/s800/P1010440.JPG

[charlieaarons]

Buy a stock vehicle and go out and have fun with it!!!!

****
BUT! Don't think that you are so smart that you can defy physics...DON'T OVERLOAD IT!
.

I second that advice.
If you really want to make a project out of the chassis step up and find a Class 6, 7 or even 8 forward control chassis and convert it to 4WD. Did you know that the GM T8500 (built in Brazil) come with the incredibly desirable Roadranger 9LL transmission as an option? 0.73 overdrive, 8 normal working gears, low gears down to 26:1! You don't need a very steeply geared transfer case (like 1.4 or 1.6; 2:1 is even better) to get super slow crawling gears.
Of course I imagine most of them came with Allisons, knowing GM's predilection for automatics.
Overloading an expedition vehicle is very easy, so overkill in the GVW and rear GAWR department is necessary.

Charlie

[haven]

I still don't understand the need for GVWR of 20,000 lbs or more,
particularly when you post this photo to represent the kind of camper
you like

http://www.piggybackcampers.com.au/Single%20Cab%20Free%20Standing.jpg

If you decide to use a heavy truck as a platform, you could carry a
dozen campers like this before you'd notice that they were on board.

Maybe you have another use for the truck that you have not mentioned?

[charlieaarons]

Yeah, you're right. But projects have a way of expanding - a lot. You just need to approach the initial stages when you've just got a piece of paper and haven't spent a penny yet with an expanded mind.

Charlie

[dhackney]

Buy a stock vehicle and go out and have fun with it!!!!

****
BUT! Don't think that you are so smart that you can defy physics...DON'T OVERLOAD IT!

I second both of those statements.

[DzlToy]

posting of the camper pic was more of a design idea, not necessarily something that weight or size. I would prefer not to have something the size of a small school bus on the back on my FG :D but I am taking into account the tendency to build bigger and overload. So, if i start small i should be ok :thumb:

Regarding the second use of the truck, yes that is a possibility as well. Two choices, One is to have something like the camper above that can be removed, allowing that truck to be used for towing or hauling as well.

The second option would be to build two identical or very similar trucks, one for "expedition" use with a fixed body and another one to haul a large fifth wheel RV, toyhauler, boat or trailer for excursions that arent off the beaten path :sombrero: