Multi-purpose Taco build

[BogusBlake]

So I bought my '04 Tacoma Double Cab 4wd a little over two years ago to replace my '85 Xtra Cab for daily driving duties. The '85 has since turned into my rock buggy and I've managed to keep my welder away from the Taco. However, this truck serves many roles for me and the stock configuration falls a little short in a few of those, it's time for some modification!

This truck needs to be a trail capable camping and tow rig that I commute to work in.

First, a few requirements:
-The Taco is my daily driver as well as my tool for exploring some very remote areas, so reliability is paramount.
-The Taco is not my main wheeler, but it's no stranger to 3.5-4 rated terrain, so armor and well performing suspension will be needed.
-I use the Taco to tow my buggy. I don't want a bigger truck, but I do need more power and better brakes.
-My wife and I are still young and kind of like sleeping in a tent on the ground and our camping gear is already fairly modular and packs into the truck well, so I don't have the need for fancy gizmoes like roof top tents or drawer systems.

Unfortunately, this build will be SLOW- the Taco isn't my main wheeler and nice parts for new trucks are expensive.

[BogusBlake]

Very soon after I bought the truck, I put on a Yakima Q-tower rack system. I like the roof rack because I can carry mountain bikes with the bed full of camping gear. The bike trays hold the bikes securely enough for some moderate wheeling, but the height of the rig with them up there is a hinderance when dealing with overhanging trees and brush.

The rack has a 400 lb dynamic capacity; I find it very useful to transport uncut (20ft) sticks of steel.

I have a habit (and luckily the wife buys into it) that when something breaks or wears out, I take the opportunity to upgrade it. The factory battery took a crap last summer so I put in an Optima red top. I went with the red top because, for now, it only has starting duties. I run a red/yellow dual battery setup on my buggy and when I get a winch for the Taco or start accumulating power drawing accesories, Ill probably go that route. That's a long time away though, so I might want something different by then...

I've only seen my ATF temp light once and I never want to see it again. The truck flat tows the buggy OK, but it's slow on hills and I can feel the tranny slipping every once in a while. I added a TRD transmission cooler in September and I swear I can actually feel a difference, especially when accelerating after being in city traffic.

Just for a little more help with towing, I swapped out the stock fan clutch for a factory Heavy Duty unit. It kicks on sooner which is also nice for summer wheeling with the AC on!

Putting parts on costs money but the Gray Wire locker mod is free so I did that. Racecar doughnuts in 2wd are fun and all, but I did it mainly for those times when I don't need to drop it into low range but do need the extra traction. I also disconnected the piezo beeper because it's just plain annoying.

[BogusBlake]

A few of the groups I wheel with have a lot of mildly built or near stock vehicles in them so I like to take the Taco instead of the buggy on those trips. I also like to get to camping spots that are "off the beaten path". Since the rocks in AZ like to bite, I built some rock sliders. The sliders extend outside the body but not quite to the sidewall of the tires which will keep me from getting wedged. When I upgrade tires, this will be even more pronounced.

[BogusBlake]

For towing, I really do need more power and torque from the engine, especially for mountain grades. Fortunately, there's an easy solution to this- a TRD supercharger, headers, and cat-back exhaust system. I believe the performance gain from these parts will offset the slight degredation of reliability and fuel consumption. I don't have any of these parts yet, but I'm saving my pennies!

If there's one place the Taco fall flat, especially when towing, is the braking department. I make it a point to avoid towing my buggy in traffic and on busy roads. There's a TRD Big brake kit for '05 and up, but those of us with '04s are out of luck... or are we?

Astute Toyota fans might notice that the front suspension of the Tacomas and Tundras are VERY similar. The Tundra is a bigger truck and meant to tow (and stop). The spindles are the same and the control arms are the same, but the brake rotors and calipers are WAY bigger (larger diameter and thicker) on the Tundra. Luckilly, Tundras came with the same 16" wheels as the Tacos (they have a 17" option, but the 16's still fit on those).

I did some research and it looks like Tundra rotors and calipers will bolt right up to my Taco spindles. Ill have to modify the brake backing plate to clear the larger caliper, but that's no big deal. I scored a set of calipers from an '05 4wd Tundra (wrecked with 7K on the od. Ouch!) for 65 bucks. Ill pick up some rotors sometime soon and bolt everything up. Stay tuned, more on this later...

[Nullifier]

sounds like you have a nice rig coming along! the brake plans you have sound interesting. I'll be following that mod closly! Good luck witht ht project hope all works outlike you plan!

[edgear]

So I bought my '04 Tacoma Double Cab 4wd a little over two years ago to replace my '85 Xtra Cab for daily driving duties.

So as Blake's wife once said -- he's a bad influence on me!! I used to own a Tacoma PreRunner, but after hanging out w/ Blake too much, and trying to follow him down trails that my 2WD w/ rear lockers just couldn't handle, I traded it in for a 4WD double-cab. This may or may not have also been inspired by his purchase of the same truck just two weeks prior.

But we've definitely wheeled them for all they're worth! It's funny the looks you get when you're on a difficult trail driving a shiny, stock vehicle. Attached are some photos from the day I bought mine (I drove it straight from the lot to go offroading), and from some other trails around Southern AZ (pre-mod days).

It's been awesome having him as a technical advisor/consultant, as well as a fabricator of custom modifications. Since he's had a few years now to "practice" on my truck, it will be awesome to see what he does to his! I'm proud to have a set of his prototype rock-sliders & lower rear shock-mounts. Definitely quality work, and he fabricated them "spur-of-the-moment" without the assistance of ProE.

[Desertdude]

the dynamic duo! :clapsmile

Blake what are your thoughts on better brakes? I know there is a thread floating around here somewhere with opinions

When I was able to upgrade the suspension it made such a big difference in on-road driving

[kcowyo]

For towing, I really do need more power and torque from the engine, especially for mountain grades. Fortunately, there's an easy solution to this- a TRD supercharger, headers, and cat-back exhaust system. I believe the performance gain from these parts will offset the slight degredation of reliability and fuel consumption. I don't have any of these parts yet, but I'm saving my pennies!



Yup, easy solution, but no, not cheap. However a SC is no more expensive than regearing two diffs, which many people (with larger then stock tires) do to regain 5th gear and regain MPG. You may actually find your mileage improves with a SC due to using required 91 octane and acquired throttle discipline. I did.

A high dollar exhaust system of a Magnaflow Hi-Flo cat and muffler, with a stock 2.5" pipe ("back-pressure" being key to the SC's performance) did little to compliment the SC from what I can tell. Other than adding a drone throughout the RPM band, that gets old after about the 4th day. I think a header may be a more effective compliment than a new exhaust set up.

I'll be interested in your braking solution. Sounds like you're on to something with the Tundra rotors and calipers. Additional speed & torque is great, but stopping when you need to is usually a little more important!

[Ursidae69]

Looks good Blake, when it's time for a brake job I plan to upgrade to the Tundra brakes as well. Nice welding on the sliders. :clapsmile

[Scott Brady]

The factory battery took a crap last summer so I put in an Optima red top.

Good choice. The Red Tops seem to last so much longer from my experience. The Optima Blue and Yellow tops just cant take the draw downs (and the Red isnt used for that anyways)



I've only seen my ATF temp light once and I never want to see it again. The truck flat tows the buggy OK, but it's slow on hills and I can feel the tranny slipping every once in a while. I added a TRD transmission cooler in September and I swear I can actually feel a difference, especially when accelerating after being in city traffic.

Very nice find Blake. What was the price?


Just for a little more help with towing, I swapped out the stock fan clutch for a factory Heavy Duty unit. It kicks on sooner which is also nice for summer wheeling with the AC on!

Man, I need that too... Did you keep the part number of that unit? I am going to swap out all hoses and belts and the clutch fan for the arctic trip.

On, and those sliders are incredible :luxhello:

[p1michaud]

So I bought my '04 Tacoma Double Cab 4wd a little over two years ago to replace my '85 Xtra Cab for daily driving duties.

Very nice truck you have there. I'd also be interested the part number for the heavy duty fan clutch. I like the functional improvements you made. The DC Tacomas are a very nice platform for build up as can be seen with the various Tacos on this board.
Cheers :beer:,
P

[BogusBlake]

The Toyota part number for the HD fan clutch (they call it a "Coupling Assy") is 08921-04950

The TRD tranny cooler was just under 3 bills; a little bling, I know, but it was designed to work with this tranny in this truck, and it fit perfectly in the spot it was designed to go...

On the Supercharger- Ill definately do the headers to smooth out the lower end of the powerband, but if the rest of the exhaust will just drone, Ill leave that off . I can't stand exhaust noise. Ill regear for sure when I upgrade tires. I'm not a heavy right foot kind of guy, so (potentially) more gas miliage is just another reason to get that thing, right?:hehe:
(I'd like to restate that this won't be happening for a while)

[Mlachica]

Just for a little more help with towing, I swapped out the stock fan clutch for a factory Heavy Duty unit. It kicks on sooner which is also nice for summer wheeling with the AC on!


Wow, that's freakin cool!

Glad you started a thread, I'll be watching with great anticipation. :lurk:

[BogusBlake]

I ordered some Brembo front brake rotors from tirerack.com and they came in the other day. Attached are pictures of the Tacoma brake caliper and rotor (on the left) compared with the Tundra parts. The Tundra caliper is way bigger, the rotor is around an inch larger in diameter, and much thicker.

I took off the Taco caliper and rotor from the driver's side, and put on the Tundra rotor. I dollied out the backing plate to clear the rotor, but later realized I could have just bent it a little with my hands. I mocked up the caliper and marked the corners of the backing plate that interfered (you can kind of see the sharpie marks in the picture). I cut them off with tin snips. The rotor just sits around the hub and is captured by the caliper. I mounted the wheel to check for clearance. There's plenty of room in the wheel for the caliper and I had no rubbing anywhere. I took the wheel off and torqued the caliper bolts and started swaping the brake line.

Here's where the only snag was- the Taco uses a banjo bolt to secure the brake line to the caliper while the Tundra uses a flared fitting. The threads in the hole are the same though, so I checked to see if the banjo fitting would seat on the face of the caliper hole. The hole has a nice machined surface to seal the banjo fitting, but the bolt bottomed out on the flare before the fitting had seated. I took the bolt out and milled .125" off the end. This could have been done carefully with a saw or cutoff wheel, but I wanted to use my new toy! This let the banjo fitting seat on the caliper and it sealed right up.

I repeated the process on the passenger side then did a quick "gravity blead" and took a careful test drive down my street. I can feel the brakes are stronger, but they are still soft because still need to blead them for real (just waiting for the wife to get back and help me!):D

I did one side carefully, just to make sure it would all fit right, then knocked out the other side. The swap was really easy, only took me about 2 hours, including dealing with an unforseen issue. Ill report back later about the improvement I can feel.

I kept the stock Tundra pads in there because I didn't want to drop money on TRD pads until I was sure everything worked. Ill pick those up next time I'm at the stealership.

[BogusBlake]

Pictures of the banjo bolt, before and after, and the backing plate.

[BogusBlake]

OK, so those Tundra brakes? Flippin' strong.

My wife helped me bleed 'em and I took off around the neighborhood. Right away, I could feel that they were stopping the truck faster. I kept bumping up the speed until I was comfortable stopping hard from 45mph. I checked the fittings and they were dry. Awesome!

I headed up the street to where it turns to dirt. I skidded the truck to see if the ABS still worked and of course it did. On the way back, I stopped hard from 60 mph three times in a row and did not feel any fade at all. I would have felt it after one with the Taco brakes. Checked for leaks, none.

Did some more hard stops and noticed that even when I do feel some fade (it takes a bunch of stops in a row), it only takes a few seconds for the brakes to recover and deliver full power again. I can't wait to see what they feel like with high performance pads in there!

[Grim Reaper]

Are the pistons larger in the bigger caliper or is it just a dimensional change to fit the larger rotor?

Does the Tundra run a master with a larger bore?

[Desertdude]

Nice work there - do you notice any different feeling in the steering due to the added size/wieght of the tundra parts?

I have been up in the pines cutting a bit of firewood and noticed while pulling the M101 full of wood the Tacoma took a bit longer to stop :REExeSquatsHL1:

[BogusBlake]

Are the pistons larger in the bigger caliper or is it just a dimensional change to fit the larger rotor?

I didn't measure, but if they're bigger, it's just by a little.


Does the Tundra run a master with a larger bore?

I don't know. I thought about getting a Tundra MC and booster and replacing the Taco stuff with it, but that was my backup plan if just the calipers and rotor swap didn't work as well as I hoped.

The Tundra pads have a little more surface area, but friction force is NOT related to area (force due to Friction = normal force x coefficient of kinnetic friction). The larger diameter of the rotors contributes alot to the power and the more metal (more thermal mass) is what allows them to last longer without fading.


do you notice any different feeling in the steering due to the added size/wieght of the tundra parts?

Not at all. They're not that much heavier. Also, the caliper is not rotating mass.

[Bergger]

Good choice. The Red Tops seem to last so much longer from my experience. The Optima Blue and Yellow tops just cant take the draw downs (and the Red isnt used for that anyways)




Very nice find Blake. What was the price?



Man, I need that too... Did you keep the part number of that unit? I am going to swap out all hoses and belts and the clutch fan for the arctic trip.

On, and those sliders are incredible :luxhello:

I've been thinking of putting the green clutch in as well. Where did you pick yours up and was the install very difficult?

[BogusBlake]

I've been thinking of putting the green (fan) clutch in as well. Where did you pick yours up and was the install very difficult?

I got it at Precision Toyota and my mechanic installed it for free during a routine service visit. I assume it wasn't hard since he didn't charge me for it.

I've replace the one on my '85 and it was a 10 minute job.

[Scott Brady]

OK, so those Tundra brakes? Flippin' strong.


This is awesome Blake. I need to do this conversion for my pig...

Please let us know how the TRD pads work out.

Oh, and would you mind listing the part numbers you have used so far?

Thanks :victory:

[BogusBlake]

Oh, and would you mind listing the part numbers you have used so far?


I don't have the actual Toyota part numbers, but here's a list of the parts I used:

1 pair of 231mm calipers with pads (Factory, Toyota)
1 pair of Rotors (Aftermarket, Brembo)

All parts from 2005 Tundra SR5 Access Cab, 2 or 4wd.

[Mlachica]

Outstanding Information!!! And of course, great work!

:Mechanic:

[p1michaud]

Attached are pictures of the Tacoma brake caliper and rotor (on the left) compared with the Tundra parts. The Tundra caliper is way bigger, the rotor is around an inch larger in diameter, and much thicker.

Very nice work.
I believe that you have the 16" wheels. I'm currious if this mod would work with someone who has 15" wheels?
Sounds like a pretty easy swap except for the banjo bolt.
Very nice R&D work! :Mechanic:

Cheers :beer:,
P

[BogusBlake]

I'm currious if this mod would work with someone who has 15" wheels?

It will not work with 15" wheels. In fact, stock Taco brakes won't fit in 15" wheels. 6-lug Tacos from 01-04 all came with 16" wheels.

*edit to fix year*

[p1michaud]

It will not work with 15" wheels. In fact, stock Taco brakes won't fit in 15" wheels. 6-lug Tacos from 99-04 all came with 16" wheels.

I've got a 1999 Tacoma with 15" wheels. I think that the 16" wheels came from 2001 to 2004.
Cheers,
P

[BogusBlake]

I saw Jeremy's bed bar / hi-lift mount and got jealous, so I buit one this morning. I mounted it to the truck with stainless steel hardware. I put on two tabs for lights in the future.

[BogusBlake]

I was working on my buggy and while rooting around in my stash of switches, I found the rear deck light switch I saved when deconstructing the dash of my '85. I thought to myself- that looks like it's about the size of those blanks by the power outlets in the Taco...

I popped off that panel and the switch fits in there like it's meant to! I'm planning on putting an amber light (to be switched with a set of driving lights) on the drivers side of my bed bar and a lower power, diffuse white light on the passenger side. This switch will be perfect for that one!


This discovery got me thinking that if Toyota used the same size switches for that many years, there's probably all kinds of factory switches to be had at the junkyard. I'm going to check that out next time I'm there.

[Desertdude]

you got skillz dood :bowdown:

[BogusBlake]

you got skillz dood :bowdown:

You mean like Numchuck skillz? Spearfishing skillz? Computer hacking skillz?

:hehe:

[edgear]

You mean like Numchuck skillz? Spearfishing skillz? Computer hacking skillz?

:hehe:
Ok, Napoleon....



you got skillz dood :bowdown:
:iagree:

[BogusBlake]

After a little debate, I decided that even the possibility of a little increased gas milage was worth it so I did the deck plate mod to my airbox.

I picked up a 4" deck plate, a tube of sensor safe slicone, and some fasteners and went to work. I know the hole you cut in the airbox doesn't have to be clean and round, but I'm kind of a perfectionist so I used a trammel cutter. A quick swipe with a deburring tool and I was left with a perfectly circular 4.375 diameter hole.

I mocked up the deckplate in the hole and rotated it a couple degrees so none of the 6 screw holes would have to punch through one of the internal ribs of the airbox. I centerpunched the screw holes then drilled a hole for a #8 screw.

I siliconed the face of the deckplate and installed it. I'm a sucker for clean bolted joints, so I used stainless steel button head cap screws and nyloc nuts.

I installed the airbox back in the truck and let it sit for a little bit so the silicone would cure. Then I went for a test drive. While it's not the rocket-boost acceleration increase I was subconsiously hoping for, I think I can feel a little bit more power. Ill have to wait until I fill the tank to know about the gas milage. I didn't notice any increased noise inside or outside the truck.

Total install time was less than one hour from when I pulled the truck in the garage.

[Ridgewalker]

BogusBlake I'd like to hear your interpretation of whether or not the "deckplate mod" improves anything under a load such as your buggy (i.e. mileage or power). There seems to be a lot of differences of opinion on it.
Thanks for this excellent build thread!:bowdown:

[pskhaat]

I don't get this mod? Deckplate? An access port on the air filter box? I must be missing something?

[Ridgewalker]

I don't get this mod? Deckplate? An access port on the air filter box? I must be missing something?

Pskhaat, yes it is a hole cut in the front of the air filter box in which you add a marine deckplate. This deckplate has a removable center which when removed allows more opening for air to inter the filter. The theory is if you get more air into the filter it will increase the power.
Hope this makes sense?

[BogusBlake]

I don't get this mod? Deckplate? An access port on the air filter box? I must be missing something?

It allows more airflow into the airbox. The only inlet in the stock configuration is about a 2.5 inch hole in the side of the box. Adding the deck plate lets you open up the box for better flow but still have it sealed as well as stock for those times when you need that.

Ill be towing the buggy on a known route in a few weeks so Ill be able to report back on loaded power and milage then.

[j_nigrelli]

ok, i'll bite....

once it's taken out for better/ increased flow, why would said flow ever want to be DEcreased...?

[BogusBlake]

ok, i'll bite....

once it's taken out for better/ increased flow, why would said flow ever want to be DEcreased...?

Deep water crossings, extreme dust conditions, etc.

It's not that you would WANT to decrease the flow, but that's what happens when you seal up the airbox back to factory configuration.

[Ridgewalker]

Ill be towing the buggy on a known route in a few weeks so Ill be able to report back on loaded power and milage then.

Great. I'll be watching for your results.
Thanks in advance.

[BogusBlake]

So as everyone has probably read in other threads, the deckplate is not all it's hyped to be. I ran through two tanks of gas back to back on identical routes and conditions and experienced approximately 10% LESS MPG with the plate out. While mid to high RPM power definitely seems to be more with the plate out, that's not where I spend most of my drive.

I had high hopes. :( Oh well, no harm done and it's not like I wasted any time.

I still think Ill try towing with the plate out. I like to experience things for myself!

[Willman]

Great build Blake!!!!!

How are the new brakes working out????? Anything you would change?? Any fade at all anymore????

Did you get the TRD pads yet????

Overall........Was the brake mod worth the $$$$$??

:coffee:

[BogusBlake]

An update on the Tundra brakes:






THEY'RE AWESOME!!!



I haven't picked up the TRD pads, and I may not until the factory pads start to wear out. The rotors and pads broke in really well and the braking got even stronger after a few months. I've towed the buggy a bunch, down a couple long hills too, and the brakes make a very noticeable improvement.

Here's a story: my crawling crew and I were heading back up from Sierra Vista. I was flat towing my buggy and the guy behind me has a big Dodge pulling a similar sized buggy on a trailer. We were pretty much matching speed when the stoplight in front of me turned yellow, I stepped on the brakes and stopped pretty darn quick. I looked in the mirror and my buddy's swerving into the shoulder. He pipes up on the radio "Damn, you weren't kidding about those brakes!"

I pretty much only feel fade at the end of a long downhill while towing. Even then, if I coast for a couple seconds without the brakes, they recover to full power.
I don't think there's anything I would do differently, but I am curious to see someone else try it with slotted rotors.


Was the mod worth the money? I'd say it's so far the highest performance gain for the money I've ever done besides the Aussie Lockers in the buggy.

[BogusBlake]

Since the thread got bumped, I figured I'd post up my latest install. This last weekend, I confirmed that it's still too hot for any sane person to work in the garage all day.

The wife and I are taking our Tech license exams on Thursday, so to prepare, I installed our Yaesu FT-7800R dual band radio and Larsen 2/70 antenna.

Rule one for any gadgets I put in my truck is INCONSPICUOUS. I can't stand the big piles of radios, cords, and crap some people have cluttering the cab. No offense if you're one of those people, I just impose this on myself. That said, I spend a couple weeks (during my commute) thinking about all the places I could put this radio that would offer ease of operation yet be out of the way and unobtrusive. I finally decided a remote mount with the faceplate frenched into headliner with an external speaker mounted through the headliner overhead.

I picked the FT-7800 because of its 2M/70cm transmit capability, it's remote mountable faceplate, and (maybe most of all) its orange lighted buttons that match the Taco's dash lighting.

On to the install! I dropped the headliner down (not a short task). I measured to the center a few inches in front of the dome light and marked the spot for the speaker. I took the case of Cleartone speaker apart and marked the screw holes. I cut a small circle in the center to clear the magnet. I screwed through the headliner into the front of the speaker box. I used hot glue to tack the speaker wire down for strain relief and to keep it from bouncing.

The front of the headliner has a bubble right behind the rear view mirror that has enough depth to accommodate the faceplate. I (very carefully) cut an "H" shape and folded back the tabs to form a pocket. I screwed the faceplate mounting bracket into the headliner on the top and back. I hot glued the corners to keep the cuts from propagating. Hopefully that's effective.

I tacked the faceplate cable too, then reinstalled the headliner. I routed the speaker and faceplate cables down inside the drivers C-pillar cover. The last two pictures attached show the speaker and faceplate as installed.

[BogusBlake]

The faceplate install looks nice and clean. It tucked up in the headliner pretty well. I mounted the mic hanger up there too, but I'm a little worried about the long-term durability of that attachment.

I mounted the antenna on the drivers side, in nearly the same place as the factory radio antenna. I picked the Larsen 2/70 because of it's dual band capability, NMO mount, and because it's black, not chrome.

I mounted it with a angle bracket mount as far back on the fender as I could get the drill to punch the mounting holes. I carefully matched the orientation of the factory antenna across the hood. I routed the coax through a grommet in the firewall and under the carpet to the rear of the cab where I would mount the transceiver.

I mounted the transceiver to the rear of the cab, behind the rear seats. I used zip-ties to the radio bracket to strain relieve the cables.

I ran 12ga power wires directly to the battery with ring terminals. I have a Blue Sea fuse block that I'll eventually install, but not until I have more than one aux circuit.

I haven't Tx'd yet, but commuting the last couple days I've been doing some scanning and listening. I don't have any alternator noise coming through the radio and everything sounds nice and clean. I can't wait to get my callsign and call CQ!

[edgear]

That looks awesome, Blake! Did you copyright your install? Mind if I copy you?? I can't wait to see it up close. I think I'll probably end up ordering most of the same components. Kinda sad having a call sign but no equipment to transmit with...

[erin]

Very clean install Blake, not that I expected anything else though, haha!

Maybe in the future, I'll have to pick your brain on all this radio stuff, really not my cup of tea.

[SEREvince]

Love the clean installs!

Question on the brakes, several write ups I have read say that the 231mm Tundra calipers will not fit and to use the 199mm calipers.

Any reason why?

Thanks

Vince

[DaveInDenver]

Where you mounted your radio face is pretty similar to where my radio ended up. It looks like with the just the face you have the display closer to the rear view, but I had to turn my radio towards the driver a bit to be able to read the LCD. Yours looks a whole lot nicer than my hack job, though.

6282

[BajaTaco]

Blake, that looks awesome. Nice job! Good luck to both of you with your tests today.

[BogusBlake]

Love the clean installs!

Question on the brakes, several write ups I have read say that the 231mm Tundra calipers will not fit and to use the 199mm calipers.

Any reason why?

Thanks

Vince


The calipers I used are 231mm ones. They fit just fine.

I suspect that the wheels on earlier versions were the reasons the big calipers didn't fit. I've read about some 4runners having to use the 199mm calipers for that reason.

[Jacket]

Is that face plate being supported only by the headliner?

[DaktariEd]

That's a really nice arrangement and install...
:sombrero:

[BogusBlake]

Is that face plate being supported only by the headliner?

Yeah. It's screwed into it.

The facepalate doesn't weigh much and the headliner has a layer of plastic or fiberglass or something under the felt that stiffen it up. I have a backup plan if this turns out to not be so durable.

[Bighead]

The calipers I used are 231mm ones. They fit just fine.

I suspect that the wheels on earlier versions were the reasons the big calipers didn't fit. I've read about some 4runners having to use the 199mm calipers for that reason.
Are you still running OEM wheels? What is the backspacing?

[BogusBlake]

Are you still running OEM wheels? What is the backspacing?

Yep, Factory wheels.

[ntsqd]

snip............
The calipers I used are 231mm ones. They fit just fine.
Something I'm curious about, no change in upright, that is to say that the Tundra calipers bolted to the Taco uprights and had the proper radial clearance (or something close) with the larger rotor OD?

If so, that might be handy knowledge when looking at upgrades for earlier trucks.

Have you any idea if, and if so, by how much the piston areas differ?

Hope that's not putting you on the spot, I used to design for wilwood so brake stuff is kind of a hobby of mine.

[BogusBlake]

Something I'm curious about, no change in upright, that is to say that the Tundra calipers bolted to the Taco uprights and had the proper radial clearance (or something close) with the larger rotor OD?

The Taco and Tundra "uprights" are the same part (at least for '04), so they required no changes.




Have you any idea if, and if so, by how much the piston areas differ?

I didn't measure. I know the force applied by the brakes (or any other hydraulic system) is directly related to the area of the piston. I don't think the increased braking power is due to larger pistons, but rather the larger diameter (and therefore longer moment arm) of the rotors. I also think the Taco brakes faded really fast which I perceived as weak brakes. The much greater thermal mass of the Tundra parts helps with this problem, allowing the brakes to be more effective for longer.




Hope that's not putting you on the spot, I used to design for wilwood so brake stuff is kind of a hobby of mine.

No worries- I'm an engineering geek too.

[DaveInDenver]

Did you get 231mm calipers under the Toyota TSB or did you just go to the parts store and ask for calipers for a Tundra? I'm not sure what NAPA would give you if you got loaded calipers for, say a 2002 V8 Tundra.

I thought the 231mm (the 13WL castings) and TSB 5.7" pads would not fit Taco and 4Runner 16" wheels without grinding (supposedly OK on 17" wheels). Interesting. My understanding was that you had to go with the 199mm (the SW13E castings) for older 16" rim trucks.

You get the bigger and way heavier Tundra rotor in both cases, so that's probably the biggest part of the upgrade. This is all academic for me since I'd still running those like, so 1991 15" rims. But I would like to do the Tundra brakes (if they'd even work on mine) and so if I ever did go to a larger rim I might just go straight to a 17" rim if it means my choice of brakes is not limited.

[ntsqd]

For a entirely different though fairly generic application I wondered which gained more braking torque, Rotor OD increase or piston area. It was nearly a draw. Which surprised me, I expected the rotor to win.
Thermal mass flattens out the curve (& may be enough for the application), but longer term is pumping more air thru the rotor. Remember those early Greenwood Corvettes with the Corvair cooling fans bolted onto the BBS wheel centers?

What does the "199mm" and "231mm" refer to? That'd be a puny rotor OD, so it must be something else like caliper length?

[DaveInDenver]

What does the "199mm" and "231mm" refer to? That'd be a puny rotor OD, so it must be something else like caliper length?
Caliper length I believe. The rotors are something like 14" in diameter. All of my knowledge is gained through reading and catalogs, not first hand with my own eyes and so it's got to be tempered with a great big AFAIK... I believe the 231mm calipers are also thicker, but I don't think the 199 and 231 refer to thickness. That would be about 9" deep. I dunno, maybe?

[BogusBlake]

I'm not sure what the 231mm vs 199mm refers to either, but I assume it has something to do with the length of the caliper. Funny thing is, I measured the calipers and they weren't either of those numbers.

Anyway, I made sure I sourced my factory calipers from a post-TSB truck (an '05 Tundra) to make sure I got the 231's.

As far as the wheels go, '04 through '06 Tundras had the same wheels as my Taco, so there's no problem with rubbing. All the guys on TTORA who did a swap like this on 4runners did have to grind the wheels, but they have different wheels than me.

[Hoosier 45]

Hi Blake,
You look like you do very nice work.

I had a couple questions:
1. Did your tranny cooler come with an engine oil cooler?
2. Do you think the tranny cooler would be worth the $$ to some one who rarely tows, in order to lengthen drive train life? Every vehicle I have driven I keep till it goes to the junk yard or parts car status.
3. What size stock did you use for your sliders? & Do you have prints?
4. A question to all, I live in Indiana and welding to the frame seems like it would expose the inside of the frame to future rust problems. How do you deal with this?

Thanks Martin

[BogusBlake]

Hi Blake,
You look like you do very nice work.

Thanks!



I had a couple questions:
1. Did your tranny cooler come with an engine oil cooler?
2. Do you think the tranny cooler would be worth the $$ to some one who rarely tows, in order to lengthen drive train life? Every vehicle I have driven I keep till it goes to the junk yard or parts car status.
3. What size stock did you use for your sliders? & Do you have prints?
4. A question to all, I live in Indiana and welding to the frame seems like it would expose the inside of the frame to future rust problems. How do you deal with this?

Thanks Martin

1: No.
2: I don't see why not. There are are cheaper universal coolers to be had.
3: The sliders are 1.5" OD 11ga (.120 wall) HREW. The prints I bent to were drawn on my shop floor in chalk.
4: It's dry here, so I didn't worry about that. That is a valid concern for someone living where you live though. Not sure how I'd deal with it. Fill the frame full of Great Stuff?