Kilby rant

[ryanhewitt]

So, after some research I settled on Kibly Enterprises as the manufacturer for the steering box skid for my TJ with the factory bumper. Upon inspection of the product everything looked exceptional. The finish was good, and the holes looked like they should line up. Out come the included instructions and "what's included" for the hardware. This is where it went bad. (1) 1/2" washer, and (1) 1/2" Nylok nut missing. Not a big issue to me, but may be to someone else without extra hardware laying around. For some reason, a piece of flat bar with a nut welded to one end and a hole on the other was included (hole pattern matches nothing). The Kilby steering box skid attaches using (3) points. One uses an existing steering box bolt, the lower bumper mount/bolt hole, and a third left up to the purchaser. The third point has the option of (2) choices. One can either drill a new hole under the bumper similar in location to the actual bumper mounting location, or the third point location is acquired by driliing a hole in the round cross member and securing the skid using the supplied self tapping bolt. One cannot use the first option without pulling the bumper off, attaching the skid, and reinstalling the bumper, due to the round cross member (no way to get to the nut). Due to the winch on my vehicle, I chose not to remove the bumper, and went with the second attachment point. I could see that the "fit" of the skid against the round cross member wasn't great, and would have to fill in the gap with washers. Again not a big deal as I have plenty of washers. Following the instructions on installation of the self tapping bolt was an experience I don't want to repeat. The self tapping bolt is a P.O.S. (probably from China), and simiply didn't work. No matter what I did, the bolt would never "bite" and start cutting the threads. So in the trash it went, and out came the tap. After tapping the hole and using one of my 3/8 bolts, the skid is attached to my vehicle. Has anyone else experienced this type of issue? It seems like it's getting harder and harder to purchase quality products, even from this country! Anyone interested can search for my thread on the Rusty's engine skid issue that I had. I've got the Kilby gas tank skid to install next, and I just hope that I don't run into any of the previous issues. Please chime in if you have had any similar problems. Thanks.

[Ireland]

So, after some research I settled on Kibly Enterprises as the manufacturer for the steering box skid for my TJ with the factory bumper. Upon inspection of the product everything looked exceptional.

The finish was good, and the holes looked like they should line up. Out come the included instructions and "what's included" for the hardware. This is where it went bad. (1) 1/2" washer, and (1) 1/2" Nylok nut missing. Not a big issue to me, but may be to someone else without extra hardware laying around. For some reason, a piece of flat bar with a nut welded to one end and a hole on the other was included (hole pattern matches nothing).

The Kilby steering box skid attaches using (3) points. One uses an existing steering box bolt, the lower bumper mount/bolt hole, and a third left up to the purchaser.

:Wow1::chef::coffee:

The third point has the option of (2) choices. One can either drill a new hole under the bumper similar in location to the actual bumper mounting location, or the third point location is acquired by driliing a hole in the round cross member and securing the skid using the supplied self tapping bolt.

One cannot use the first option without pulling the bumper off, attaching the skid, and reinstalling the bumper, due to the round cross member (no way to get to the nut). Due to the winch on my vehicle, I chose not to remove the bumper, and went with the second attachment point.

I could see that the "fit" of the skid against the round cross member wasn't great, and would have to fill in the gap with washers. Again not a big deal as I have plenty of washers. Following the instructions on installation of the self tapping bolt was an experience I don't want to repeat.

The self tapping bolt is a P.O.S. (probably from China), and simiply didn't work. No matter what I did, the bolt would never "bite" and start cutting the threads.

So in the trash it went, and out came the tap. After tapping the hole and using one of my 3/8 bolts, the skid is attached to my vehicle. Has anyone else experienced this type of issue?

It seems like it's getting harder and harder to purchase quality products, even from this country! Anyone interested can search for my thread on the Rusty's engine skid issue that I had.

I've got the Kilby gas tank skid to install next, and I just hope that I don't run into any of the previous issues. Please chime in if you have had any similar problems. Thanks.
:Wow1::chef::coffeedrink: That better?

[JeepN95YJ]

:Wow1::chef::coffeedrink: That better?


Definitely makes the rant much easier to read.

OP,

Did you call Kilby?

[Scott Brady]

Did you call Kilby to gauge their level of support? The honest reality is that companies do make mistakes from time to time, but it is the support that differentiates the great ones.

[Brad Kilby]

It is possible that we forgot to add the proper washer and nut. It happens and I'm not using that as an excuse. My apologies to ryanhewitt and if you want, I'll still ship those out to you although it sounds pointless now.


That said, we try to build the gear box skid to fit multiple bumper configurations and it's not easy. The idea was to offer the installer their choice of the third bolt mounting option.

Option 1 is to use the self tapping bolt on the round cross member. This requires you to drill a hole of the appropriate size and ram the self tapping bolt in, threading the cross member as you do this. It's a self-tapping bolt. It's difficult by hand, a simple task using air tools.

Another option is to use the nut plate that we provide if you have my pre-drilled bumper.

If you don't have my pre-drilled bumper but have a bumper that cooperates with this mounting option, drill your hole in the lower portion of the bumper and use this nut plate to secure the fastener. I'd have to double check but I believe the factory bumper requires this step.

In ryanhewitt's situation, he couldn't find the proper bolt pattern for this nut plate because, it's a hole of one that doesn't have a hole "pattern" and because the hole wasn't pre-drilled in the factory bumper. Not a big deal really. I think he still could have used either method to mount the skid. I know the nut is hard to get into place due to the bends in the bumper on the backside but i think it's still doable. Wait, now that I think about it, I believe we eliminated the nut and washer in favor of the nut plate itself. It serves the same purpose and is easier to use.....

The one thing to keep in mind is that this skid was designed to be used with a Kilby Bumper first and foremost. We also try to offer other mounting options if you don't have a Kilby bumper. We pride ourselves in having good quality, MADE IN AMERICA products that not only do their job, but also install easily, within reason. My apologies if this wasn't the case.

Brad Kilby

[ryanhewitt]

Brad, thank you for replying. I was going to contact Kilby on Monday, but now that's not necessary. The missing hardware replacement isn't necessary either, but thanks for the offer. I can understand that Kilby wants to produce one product that can be used for as many applications as possible. As I mentioned, minus the spacing with the washers at the round cross member, the actual skid fits well. I think that the actual hardware may be questionable. Where is the actual hardware sourced? The self tapping bolt didn't seemed to be at the same level of quality as the skid itself. Certain people may think a bolt is a bolt, but there is different levels of quality. What's the slot on the self tapping bolt's head for? A screwdriver?! Using the bumper attachment method would not have worked on my vehicle without removing the bumper. On the instructions (included and on the website), the third photo down shows the round cross member and lack of space between it and the bumper. I don't see how anyone could access the nut/ nut plate.
Like I said the gas tank skid is next. It should be here this week, and I should be doing the install on Saturday. Brad thank you again for the reply, as mentioned above, support is just as important as the product itself.

[tommudd]

Hopefully your gas tank skid goes easier! My Kilby gas tank skid on the Liberty went right on no problems, its heavy as heck by yourself but well worth the effort!

Good Luck

[getlost4x4]

sounds more like installer quality problems not part problems. i'm so happy i'm out of the off-road product producing world!:elkgrin:

[I Leak Oil]

No offense but I've never understood why someone posts their product issues on a BBS before exhausting all reasonable options with the vendor\manufacturer first. Seems like wasted time and effort.

[Andrew Walcker]

From my fahter's experience with his TJ, Kilby products have always been top-notch and manufactured to very close tolerances. Since he usually heads to my garage for the install I can speak to Kilby products installing easily. Obviously, from Brad's response it sounds like their customer service is also top-notch.

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

No offense but I've never understood why someone posts their product issues on a BBS before exhausting all reasonable options with the vendor\manufacturer first. Seems like wasted time and effort.



I agree totally. Typically, the poster flames without giving the manufacturer any benefit of the doubt, or even the courtesy of a first chance to resolve the issue. Nobody wins.

[ntsqd]

Woe is the mfg who tries to accommodate every possible combination of parts that their part might encounter in the installation. It is simply not possible to predict, much less design for, every possible parts permutation or combination. The only realistic option is to make the new part work with their own existing product(s) or an otherwise totally stock configuration. Sometimes making it work with just those two knowns is nearly impossible.

[luk4mud]

As a former TJ owner, I can relate to the OP and I think you guys are being unduly hard on him. It's frustrating to buy what you believe to be a quality bolt on product and find out that it was made with so many different combinations in mind that it is difficult to make it work with what you have.

If I research a part and the manuf. says that it is designed to fit what I have, can't I believe them? Or should I assume that it just sort of fits and has been designed for a bunch of different applications?

As a C grade mechanic, I try to do alot of my own work, and in my mind, the manufacturers need folks like me if they want to have any meaningful market to sell to. I'm not a fabricator type, and I get a little miffed at the "shame on you for not being able to make it work" types. I try to research carefully and buy products that are advertsied as being designed to fit my application. I don't expect a pain free install every time, but bolt holes should line up reasonably well, self tapping screws should be of decent quality and should work, all parts should be included.

All that being said, my experience with Kilby, Currie, ARB, Body Armor products has been exceptional. If Brad's folks made a mistake, we should give him a chance to make it right. Not so with Rusty, he gets no second chances ....:elkgrin:

[Scott Brady]

I think the only point that was being made was the OP posted his rant before contacting the company.

These "rants" are becoming more prolific on forums now, which can hurt good companies. I would just ask everyone to consider the impact of their opinions on other people and their families. Many of these companies are small business and their sole source of income. Sure, there are times when companies really screw up, and that should be made public, but something small like a questionable self-tapping screw may be worth a call to the company first and give them the opportunity to make it right. If they blow you off, than give them hell - seem fair?

[luk4mud]

I think the only point that was being made was the OP posted his rant before contacting the company.

These "rants" are becoming more prolific on forums now, which can hurt good companies. I would just ask everyone to consider the impact of their opinions on other people and their families. Many of these companies are small business and their sole source of income. Sure, there are times when companies really screw up, and that should be made public, but something small like a questionable self-tapping screw may be worth a call to the company first and give them the opportunity to make it right. If they blow you off, than give them hell - seem fair?

Yep, totally agree Scott. The OP (and all of us) should contact the manufacturer first. My comments were more directed to the response posts suggesting that it's ok for a manufacturer to design for multiple purposes and still claim "bolt on" applicability. I understand the dilemna they face in trying to design around multiple applications ... but they should be accurate in how they describe and sell the product then. Don't know in Brad's case, he may well have done that.

[tommudd]

I have to think back 30 plus years ago when I started wheeling and building 4WDs and Harleys. You called on a telephone and talked to someone, then sent a money order and waited , when it came you either installed it if it fit right or tried to make it work anyway you could, because you did not want to be on the phone for an hour! Only thing I could really do was complain to Clyde ( my Dobie!) and main helper

There was no internet to jump on and start complaining to the world.
But then now a days you do have people like Brad who jump on and try to do some great PR and make things right with his products

[pray4surf]

Could it have been that on SATURDAY (12/5) there was no customer service that Ryan could contact??? I can understand his frustration - and would assume that (like many of us - myself included) only have the weekends to work on our trucks..

I could understand his frustration, and believe he was just looking for an immediate solution - sure he ranted a bit - wouldn't most of us?

Had this been a weekday, I'm willing to bet Ryan's first avenue would have been to contact Kilby.

There.... my $0.02

:ylsmoke:

[Jeep]

sounds more like installer quality problems not part problems. i'm so happy i'm out of the off-road product producing world!:elkgrin:

I'm with ya there!:)

[ryanhewitt]

I picked up the gas tank skid today without any major issues. As mentioned, the skid is pretty heavy. The box was damaged on one corner. It looks like someone drug the box, wearing through it, and eventually to the skid. The skid's powder coat is gone on one seam area. Not a big deal, I'll just hit it with some paint. Two sets of instructions were included: one page for 97 - 02and one page for 03 - 06, due to differences. I won't get a chance to install it this weekend due to other obligations, so I'm hoping next weekend. Besides the minor box issue, the product looks great and I'm looking forward to the install.

[Maximus Ram]

Keep us updated on the skid install.
As for the packaging, not a whole lot a company can do to prevent "rough" handling by a shipping company and its employees. I've received items that looked like when they started out probably were very well packed, but by the time they arrived, the packaging lookedlike it had been through a rock tumbler. A few passes with a rattle can and no one can tell.

[Jeep]

Keep us updated on the skid install.
As for the packaging, not a whole lot a company can do to prevent "rough" handling by a shipping company and its employees. I've received items that looked like when they started out probably were very well packed, but by the time they arrived, the packaging lookedlike it had been through a rock tumbler. A few passes with a rattle can and no one can tell.

Oh yeah, I recieved a Callies crankshaft for a 572 BBC that had what remained of the wood crate jammed like a cork in the balancer bolt hole, there was road rash on the counterweights, and DHL claimed the product was not packaged correctly, until I showed them the wood crate they came in.

[Root Moose]

I had a Hummer t-case shipped to me once. Properly packaged and everything. The shippers somehow managed to crack the case of it (packaging destroyed). WTF?

Nowadays you have to have insurance. I think it is intentional on the shipper's part to sweeten their deal.

[Nick B]

When I mounted my steering skid I drilled the hole in the round crossmember and then taped a lock nut to a long handled wrench . The wrench was just long enough to reach the hole inside the tube and after a minute of "fishing" around I got the nut started on the bolt .
The self tapping screw/bolt supplied is a joke .

[ryanhewitt]

Well I got the time to install the gas tank skid on the TJ yesterday. Overall the process went fairly smoothly thanks to the instructions. A couple of observations though. I found that if I installed the drivers side first, it allowed the filler hose to find it's way to the proper location easier. I wasn't able to slide the tank/tank skid assembly back as far as I wanted, because the tank started making contact with the vehicle. Because of this the rear diff cover/diff skid is now pretty close to the front of the gas tank skid. I think there is a little over an inch. I don't think there will be any contact, but I'll have to wait and see. To be honest I think it was close before, but didn't check before I took everything apart. The factory exhaust makes contact with the side of the skid. When the vehicle is running, I can hear/see the hanger bouncing off the skid. I placed a piece of old fuel line in between the two and that seems to help. The electrical connection is two piece, one half of the connection is on the tank, and the other is on the vehicle. Originally the tank half connector was attached to the factory skid and prevented the connector from bouncing around and chafing. I wasn't able to use the bracket on the new skid to accomplish this. It seems the bracket is a little further inboard, and the vehicle half wouldn't reach. I simply zip tied the connection to the fuel line instead. I thought I would post the install and observations for those interested. Thanks.

[TJ Willy]

The TJ steering box skid was the first mod on my old TJ. There were some issues but Brad took care of it straight away. Like another said, mistakes are a part of the process... it is how they are managed that makes the difference. I soon purchased the Gas Tank skid from them and loved every minute of it. I did have to shorten my exhaust a few inches to stop the rattle.

Both of those mods were circa 2004...