Scratch Building a trailer... got a few questions

[Rezarf <><]

Howdy everyone...

Let me first say I have learned a lot by reading tons of posts here! THANKS!

I have been lurking here for a few months and thought I would finally post up a few questions that I would like to ask. I frequent ih8mud often but it seemed like this is the place for some more specific trailer/camper questions.

Here is a link to my brainstorming thread on mud: http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=108388

I have a few more questions that I will ask here, and any info/advice would be greatly appreciated.

1) I am going to build a metal "skeleton" out of 1" square tubing with .125 wall, and skin the inner surface with sheet metal.
*What gauge would be best?
*I would like to use stainless rivets, do you see any major problems with that? Welding is my other option here, but I want to be able to remove/modify any panels as time goes on.
*Do you recommend a good body sealer for the seams and joints?

2) What is the best way to figure out the distance needed between my tires (35x12.5" MT/r) and the trailer tub. I cannot see the springs flexing all that much they are rated at 1000# each. Any ideas on how much space to leave between the two?

3) Have any of you used a shurflo Aqua King Jr. water pump for on board water pressure? Is there a better system for a pump and faucet? Looking to have a sink/faucet combo, and a hand held shower.

4) What is the best feature of your trailer setup? So, if you were building one what would you be absolutely sure to include?

Thanks in advance!

Drew

[Sgt Grunt]

I would include a tailgate, lockable storage, battery set up charged by the pulling vehicle and solar panel, and mean enough frame etc. to handle mild pulling if you get stuck.

Just some thoughts....

[Rezarf <><]

Thanks, I have all that planned. I have aquired lots of components and have a few more to gather up.

Should be fun for sure.

Rezarf <><

[Grim Reaper]

All these concepts were created in AutoCad .00001

Now that's the funny!

I haven't made any progress on mine yet. I missed a free frame that was nearly perfect for the boxes and even had 6 lug axle. It would have got me rolling for the short term till I could do the air suspension.

I really like the concept drawing.

[Rezarf <><]

Thanks I decided to change it a bit. I will not knock off the corners of the top section, instead I will make it similar to the m101 and m416 sides, I am also loosing the side doors and making one large locking lid.

Anyone on the rivets vs. welding?

Rezarf <><

[Grim Reaper]

Rivets or welding....either will work well with proper planning. If its aluminum with a skinned sub structure the rivets will be fine.

A tip is Silicon sealants BLOW. Get a good sealant like Vulkem 636. http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=24 That stuff is 10 times the sealing of silicone. Just make sure you have it where you want it before it dries. It sticks GOOD. Alcoa Gutter seal is a little thin for building. It is meant to reseal an existing seam.

RV places will have it or a similar products under different names. Ask for a roof sealant in a caulk gun dispenser.

[Rezarf <><]

Thanks for the tip.

I am going with stainless rivets and steel tubing and sheet. I will check out that product for sure, thanks again!

Where are you at in Atlanta? I am a ramblin' wreck from Georgia Tech, ID 1999.

Rezarf <><

[Grim Reaper]

I am in Marietta. Went to Southern Tech when it was still sort of an extension of GA tech.

You don't happen to Know Adam Black that had the Black Jeep XJ did you? He was going there around that time.

[Rezarf <><]

If an xj is a cherokee, then yes, I knew Adam. Wow, small world.

Rezarf <><

[elcoyote]

Just an idea, if you haven't built your chassis or box yet, you might want to check out the pictures of the body panels I posted at: http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3674

[Grim Reaper]

If an xj is a cherokee, then yes, I knew Adam. Wow, small world.

Rezarf <><

Sure is. He is a regular on Pirate with the nick of "Indulf" if you want to drop him a line.

[Rezarf <><]

Closing in on final design phases for my trailer. Thought I would bounce a few more questions out there.

1. Trackwidth: How much wider than my FJ40's width you say is acceptable? If I can make a trailer a full 4 feet wide, I will have a bit wider stance than the cruiser itself. About 4 inches per side. However, this would allow the trailer to fit flat sheet goods without a problem.

2. How much room should be budgeted between the tires and the frame rails of the trailer? Anyone have a m416 or m101 that they could measure for me?

3. I may go with the m416 shape and style but the Aussies seem to make the box a bit wider without issues. This trailer will see a lot of Moab and Colorado high country, not a lot of tight trails, any opinions?

4. What height would you like to see the box and why, I am thinking of a minimum of 20" but higher would add storage, and raise the COG. Opinions?

Thanks!:victory:

Drew

[Grim Reaper]

Closing in on final design phases for my trailer. Thought I would bounce a few more questions out there.

1. Trackwidth: How much wider than my FJ40's width you say is acceptable? If I can make a trailer a full 4 feet wide, I will have a bit wider stance than the cruiser itself. About 4 inches per side. However, this would allow the trailer to fit flat sheet goods without a problem.

2. How much room should be budgeted between the tires and the frame rails of the trailer? Anyone have a m416 or m101 that they could measure for me?

3. I may go with the m416 shape and style but the Aussies seem to make the box a bit wider without issues. This trailer will see a lot of Moab and Colorado high country, not a lot of tight trails, any opinions?

4. What height would you like to see the box and why, I am thinking of a minimum of 20" but higher would add storage, and raise the COG. Opinions?

Thanks!:victory:

Drew

Width:
On the street you could make it as wide as a Semi. For the trail you are probably best served keeping it the track width of the vehicle you are pulling it with. The goal is to have it follow along in the trucks tracks. On a tight turn that may be a problem and the trailer may make a tighter turn then the truck. Knowing that I would be hesitant to go wider.

Wheel clearance:
Trailers don't do much in the way of articulating. They just twist in relation to the hitch. You can be pretty tight. My road trailer I threw a set of mags on it a buddy gave me off a XJ. They rubbed. I put a 1/4 inch spacer and its been fine. Never rubbed again. Now it doesn’t see what a off road trailer is going to see. I would recommend you have 1-2 inches from the side wall. That will get you some play if the trailer slides sideways a wedges you won’t risk side wall damage.

Box Width:

Again I think the width of the truck pulling it would be a good guide for the maximum width. The designer of the Ausie trailers was designing for unimproved roads in the outback not rock crawling. As an example the trailer I am designing will have a floor 42 inches wide...what the floor is of my 4Runner. I am incorporating a rub rail that will form the fender and a halo bar/cargo rack for the top. The goal is if I flop it will protect it from major damage. The body at its widest point will be between 42-50 inches. Box being the easiest to build but it would be nice to have some extra room a little higher.

Box height:

Will it have a hard top?

With a hard top I would give 2-4 inches over the talest thing you think you will bring...Good guide would be your Fridge.

I'm actually incorporating a sleeping bunk in mine so my over all height from bed to top will be around 48. inches. The body will be aluminum so it won't have a big effect on CG.

[offroadchef]

check this out..

http://www.pbase.com/rophoto/trailer

[Grim Reaper]

check this out..

http://www.pbase.com/rophoto/trailer
Nice!

That's more along the lines of what I plan to build. I am using salvage out door equipment cabinets so my shape is governed by them but I really like some of the interior ideas he has.

[Rezarf <><]

I already have the RTT so more of a chaser style trailer is what I am gunning for.

Drew

[Rezarf <><]

Hey Guys-

What do you think about electric brakes on a unit this size (similar to the chaser) I know that they use them and their design seems very top notch!

Opinions? I can add it to my axle that I am having built for 75 bucks... just thought I would see what you think.

Thanks in advance.

Drew

[njtaco]

I will always be an advocate for trailer brakes, electric or otherwise. Bear in mind you will need a brake control added to your tow vehicle unless you opt for surge (hydraulic) brakes. $75 sounds reasonable to add at this point.

If the flanges are in place on the axle tube, you could add them later, BTW. It is probably more expensive to retrofit than $75, though.

I like electric brakes better than surge because of the adjustability a good controller offers.

[Grim Reaper]

Ditto. You can never have too much brakes. Last thing you want is to be going down a steep hill and hav the trailer start pushing you.

Invest in a good controller like a Kelsey Hayes or a Jordan. http://www.bestbrakecontroller.com/ The inertia's would be easily tricked on hills. If you have to go with an inertia get the Prodigy. Its the best of them.

[elcoyote]

Avoid surge brakes. They are problematic in off road conditions such a drop offs and steep descents. Electrics allow you to manipulate you brakes with the overide control from inside your vehicle, very handy indeed when you are trying to nerf your trailer around an obstable rather than over it. Be sure to tuck your wires away, use waterproof connectors and run seperate wires to your drums. if you use the one wire approach, you will experience a voltage drop.

[njtaco]

if you use the one wire approach, you will experience a voltage drop.

Never thought of that for brakes...good advice.

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

Hey Guys-

What do you think about electric brakes on a unit this size (similar to the chaser) I know that they use them and their design seems very top notch!

Opinions? I can add it to my axle that I am having built for 75 bucks... just thought I would see what you think.

Thanks in advance.

Drew

I opted for no brakes when I had my trailer built. Soley based on towing over in California. In Ca. if your trailer has brakes and there are snow chain controls, then your trailer must also have chains. Not that big of a deal, but it was one less thing to deal with. Although the tentrax is not a very heavy trailer.

[offroadchef]

go to this site http://www.ctc-parts.de/ it is in german,but the pics might be helpful

[d110pickup]

I stumbled onto this buildup thread on an Australian board; it may be of some use to ya'll.

http://z4.invisionfree.com/Vic_All_Terrain/index.php?showtopic=375

Mike

[Grim Reaper]

I stumbled onto this buildup thread on an Australian board; it may be of some use to ya'll.

http://z4.invisionfree.com/Vic_All_Terrain/index.php?showtopic=375

Mike

Very cool site. The trailer I am designing will look something like Echo IV. It will have a sleeping bunk in it so it will be about 50 inches floor to ceiling. Body ill be about 7-7.5 ft.

Black for the Reefer box doesn't make a lot of sense though.

[elcoyote]

I opted for no brakes when I had my trailer built. Soley based on towing over in California. In Ca. if your trailer has brakes and there are snow chain controls, then your trailer must also have chains. Not that big of a deal, but it was one less thing to deal with. Although the tentrax is not a very heavy trailer.

On a small trailer, it is very rare that the CHP enforces the req. The only time I have seen them do it, they also required chains on 4WD vehicles too. If you do not have chains in the snow for your trailer, simply turn your brake controller way down to prevent lock up.

[elcoyote]

Hey Guys-

What do you think about electric brakes on a unit this size (similar to the chaser) I know that they use them and their design seems very top notch!

Opinions? I can add it to my axle that I am having built for 75 bucks... just thought I would see what you think.

Thanks in advance.

Drew
Assuming that this is a leaf spring set up, get the longest springs possible to smooth out the ride. A shackle in the rear will help too.

[d110pickup]

Here's a trailer build on a Land Rover site from the UK. Again hopefully this will be fodder for ideas.
http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=79838
Looks heavy to me.
Mike

OK, just tried the link and some photos are visible and some want you to register on the site. Sorry.

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

On a small trailer, it is very rare that the CHP enforces the req. The only time I have seen them do it, they also required chains on 4WD vehicles too. If you do not have chains in the snow for your trailer, simply turn your brake controller way down to prevent lock up.


That is what I was trying to convey. Yes, Elcoyote you are right. I meant that if there are chain controls being enforced, the tow rig and the trailer need to have them. That is if the trailer is equipped with brakes. It's a very minor consideration.

[Rezarf <><]

Well, I just returned from my Honeymoon with my beautiful bride in Australia and I must say I am now VERY motivated to get this trailer going. I have decided to change my design a bit and go for a 7' long box, and to make it around 30" tall vs. the shorter m416 style sides which are a little less than 20" if I remember correctly.

I saw a LOT of very cool trailers with the Ultimate Trailer being one of the very coolest. I must say however, for the price of these things I have become more and more impressed with the US based Adventure Trailers... hats off to those guys for a quality product at a fraction of the AU prices!

I have just about everything in place to begin fabbing stuff up. I am really excited to get moving on this agian.

...More questions to follow!

Rezarf <><

[Rezarf <><]

Just ordered up my axle from

www.abctrailerparts.com

Randy is the owner and I am getting a 3500lb axle, 6x5.5 hubs, spring perches, springs, ubolt kit, shackles, hangers, lug nuts, and easy lube hubs, and all the hardware to make it work...

...custom fabbed to my spec's 55" wide (trackwidth) all for...

$132.99!

plus another 60 shipped to my door! WHOO HOO!:jump:

Here we go...

Rezarf <><

[Mike S]

That's the same set-up that I used on my trailer. Wait until you go down to your Toyota dealer to buy the lug nuts...:confused:

Post pictures?

Sorry I am coming late to this post. I have designed and built a similar trailer for my FJ60 and now FZJ80. Water tank, pump, battery banks, charger, yada yada...

Mike

[Rezarf <><]

Mike, lets see some pics of this thing man.

You are right up the road from me, I have seen your place on the way to Ft. Collins... at least I think I have.

I am in Louisville.

Drew

[Mike S]

Drew

PM me with your e-mail, I'll send some info along. I have a few photos also.

Mike

[offroadchef]

look at these

http://www.expeditions-service.com/ga_trailer_bilder.php

[cruiseroutfit]

Sounds like your getting the ball rolling...

I used the exact same dimension axle... I paid ~$110 for the axle, but mine didn't inlclude the leaf springs as I had planned to use much longer ones than the ones they provide. We have some pretty big trailer supply places here in SLC, but I was amazed at the price difference between a couple of them. For the same axle I was quoted anywhere from $110 to $300... you know which one I went with :D

Pics... Pics... Pics...

[dieselcruiserhead]

Which one did you go with, Henderson's?

[cruiseroutfit]

Which one did you go with, Henderson's?

Yup, they have them in stock. Darrell might have one he's looking to sale too. It is a chunk of DOM with Cruiser spindles/hubs cleanly attached. Very heavy duty...

[Rezarf <><]

Sweet Kurt-

I followed your build closely on mud and your site.

I am excited to get my hands dirty and get working on this thing.

Rezarf <><

[Rezarf <><]

look at these

http://www.expeditions-service.com/ga_trailer_bilder.php

Dang man!

Now that is a trailer! Mine will be much more simple than that but wow, it looks like the first travel trailer I have ever seen on terrain like that.

Thanks for the link... is it german?

Rezarf <><

[offroadchef]

Dang man!

Now that is a trailer! Mine will be much more simple than that but wow, it looks like the first travel trailer I have ever seen on terrain like that.

Thanks for the link... is it german?

Rezarf <><

yes it is, do you have any questions?