Turbo Diesel 2.8 CRD in a TJ/LJ solved.....

[Metcalf]

Well, it looks the the common ( wealthy ) man can now have the CRD liberty swapped into there TJ/LJ jeep!

http://www.burnsvilleoffroad.com/Articles/LibertyDiesel.aspx

http://www.burnsvilleoffroad.com/Images/Articles/LibertyDiesel/4WDP-100200-DSL-44-48.pdf

http://www.4wdandsportutility.com/features/jeep/1002_4wd_2006_jeep_wrangler_tj_diesel/index.html

http://image.4wdandsportutility.com/f/27283666+w750+st0/1002_4wd_03+2006_jeep_wrangler_tj_unlimited+engine _bay.jpg

Burnsville Offroad was finally able to pull off a full conversion where everything works. AEV was the first to do this, but they will not do another. Burnsville was able to pull it off by swapping the dash cluster and steering column from the Liberty. They also had to swap in a set of JK axles in order to get the ABS speed signal that the computers need ( for cruise control if I remember correctly ). Burnsville also pulled off a 6-speed manual conversion with the Rubicon 4:1 transfer case for you gear grinders.

Overall though this is pretty promising. Being able to use the JK axles for the ABS speed signal solves the last part of the puzzle. This swap could be done now by a talented individual in there garage.

As a note.

-Full backspacing JK wheels would pull the width down to the same as 17" AEV Pinters on TJ axles.

-AEV was able to pull off this conversion by using a small interface computer between the liberty computers and TJ dash cluster.

-Hotwire also did one conversion but was missing the ABS signal so the Cruise control would not work and they had some automatic transmission control glitches.

-Green Diesel Engineering is also doing some very interesting work on reprogramming the engine control computer.

http://www.greendieselengineering.com/

The last piece of the puzzle is really the reprogramming of the stock transmission computer. I hope someone cracks it soon.

Good news all in all.....anyone now where to find a wreaked CRD libby?

[xr8dxj]

:smilies27 Turn-key 7.2 Hemi (automatic) install - $42,500.00 !!!

[Metcalf]

yeah....ouch......I wonder what that 7.2L engine costs just by itself...

No Hemi talk......DIESEL please! :)

[4Rescue]

That is AWESOME Metcalf!!!!!

Thanks for sharing. This engine swap + 6spd Man + a LWB Jeep of some sort would definalty make me consider a Jeep again. I just CANNOT STAND auto tranny's one bit (even less so for Expo use) so I just don't think a J8, no matter how amazing, would ever suit me (plus I think the JK's look hideous w/o the AEV "Highline" body on them). For me the "No manual option" just kills a perfect vehicle espescialy for the price.

This is defiantly cool news and probably will make more then a few here on the Portal VERY happy. Now if I could just remember those winning Lotto numbers....

Cheers

Dave

[Metcalf]

I think its promising. For me, it basically fills in one of the last pieces of the puzzle. The wiring still scares me, but at least its possible!

Personally, I would just use the Liberty 545 auto and NP242. The manual vs auto thing is just personal preference. Even Tom Sheppard uses an automatic in his G-wagen now, I do now that he had some teething problems with it however.....

I would love to see how much of the liberty harness they used. It would seem that they would have used almost all of it, and that might be easier than trying to blend the TJ harness too much. I would LOVE to see someone make a complete replacement harness for the TJ that would allow the conversion. I don't think it will ever happen unless one person is very passionate about the conversion. I would love to tackle something like this if I had more time and space. Once you did the first one it would be pretty easy to board out for some limited production, or at least being able to make one when someone needed one. If someone wanted to eliminate the automatic and its computer that shouldn't be too hard to leave out since its a separate computer.

Beyond the wiring there would need to be.....

-Motor Mounts. I thin making a set that could index of the existing mounts would not be too hard. Maybe just have a jig that could be used on an exchange basis?

-Upper front control arms. This is a sticky one. Everything I have seen so car uses a radius arm style replacement system. RE long arms from Burnsville, and Range Rover arms from AEV. I would love to have an up close look, or access to some CAD data! I would like to know if it would be possible to use a 'bent' upper arm similar to the Currie J-arm to clear the CRD motor mount?

-Cooling package brackets. Both AEV and Burnsville used the complete CRD liberty cooling package. It looks like they where able to bolt it in with a fabricated bracket set. Again, maybe just some blueprints for the industrious people and a set for sale for the people who don't have the time to fab stuff like that themselves.

-JK axles. There are already a good number of places that make TJ bracket sets that would allow this conversion. I like the Clayton Offroad front brackets the best. For the rear I would use the AEV TJ weld-on track bar mount and a set of Clayton spring mounts and lower control arm mounts. Then maybe use a AEV stinger if it will work with the JK rear D44?

-Wheels. Like I said before, if you where to use factory bacspacing JK wheels on the axles the track-width would come out the same as using a TJ axle with AEV Pinters ( perfect for the AEV highline )

-Transmission/T-case. If your using the liberty 545/242 combo you may need to re-index the transfer case? The angle may be too different. If I remember right from the AEV hemi conversions the adapter to do this is out there. Also, on the AEV Hemi TJ conversions you had to use a 5/8" body lift in order to use the Tummy Tucker with the 545 automatic since it is much bigger than the stock 4-speed automatic.

-Driveshafts. They would most likely need to be adjusted. The JK axles would need the pinion flanges replaced with conventional u-joint yokes or the flanges adapted to.

I will edit this when I think of more stuff.

[JPFreek1]

Dieseltoyz in San Antonio has been doing these conversions for several years now. As a matter of fact, we plan on doing one at some point in the semi-near future once we get through all the other projects we're currently working. Stay tuned. ;)

[Metcalf]

Dieseltoyz is listing only the 2007+ Wrangler on there website. That is supposedly a lot easier since it was a factory application overseas.

[haven]

Has anyone worked the problem from the other direction?
That is, install Wrangler Rubicon running gear on a diesel
Liberty or Grand Cherokee. Just asking...

[Root Moose]

-Transmission/T-case. If your using the liberty 545/242 combo you may need to re-index the transfer case? The angle may be too different. If I remember right from the AEV hemi conversions the adapter to do this is out there. Also, on the AEV Hemi TJ conversions you had to use a 5/8" body lift in order to use the Tummy Tucker with the 545 automatic since it is much bigger than the stock 4-speed automatic.

It is possible to re-index the NV242/AW4 combo used in an XJ. IIRC the thread that shows it being done at NAXJA essentially re-drills either the t-case of transmission adapter for the bolt holes and gets on with it from there. NDB

I am assuming the same can be done with the ChryCo transmission. IIRC all the modern NV cases use a flat, round mounting flange so it should work similarly.

I didn't bother with my build, I just spaced the driveline upwards about 5/8" at the transfer case mount and welded a little ~5/8" pocket into my skid plate. Not entirely a flat tummer but a ~9"x9" area sticking out ~5/8" isn't going to make or break an obstacle.

[UK4X4]

http://www.cheapchryslerjeep.co.uk/specials/jeep-wrangler.shtml?gclid=CJb0ktmI_J4CFSBk4wodgzD7JQ

Sold from the factory in the UK..RHD though..

find a crashed one and ship over the front end complete.

a few spanners and scredrivers and your done

[Root Moose]

Yeah, I'm surprised no one has gotten into the "front cut" business for trucks like there is for the JDM stuff.

[Metcalf]

That is a JK front half cut.

As far as I know there was never a factory TJ diesel application.

If you have the right connections the JK diesel swap is doable with overseas parts from Italy or other parts of the EU that use LHD.

This thread is about the TJ application of the diesel, much more complicated.

[Backwoods Rambler]

Has anyone worked the problem from the other direction?
That is, install Wrangler Rubicon running gear on a diesel
Liberty or Grand Cherokee. Just asking...

BINGO! :victory:

[Metcalf]

Installing the JK Rubicon axles under a CRD Liberty would be pretty easy all things considered. The only big difference I could find in the FSMs was that the KJ uses only 3 wheel speed sensors ( LF,RF, and a single rear on the ring gear ). The JK uses one on each corner as far as I can tell. I think you could get by dropping one of the rear outputs from the JK to KJ. The pulse rate of the speed sensors may be different too and would need to be reprogrammed on the KJ.

Now, if you don't have ABS on the KJ you only need one speed input as far as I can tell. It goes directly into the body control module to provide a speed signal for the speedometer and odometer in the gauge cluster over the PCI network.

[wardrow]

Any body have a price on this conversion?

[Metcalf]

I emailed them and will post when I hear back....

[BIGdaddy]

xj diesel? did i miss the answer?

[Metcalf]

The Liberty CRD has been swapped in the the XJ, but it was a 'simple' swap with a manual transmission, no cruise, limited gauge interface, etc. Still a great swap though.

http://www.prindlemfg.com/project_detail.php?projectID=2

[brennanriddle1]

any more info from burnsville on price/ other swaps?

[Metcalf]

I thought I would bump this to the top again....

I think that swapping the CRD powertrain from the liberty into the TJ/LJ wrangler is going to be the only way to get a 'factory' like conversion in a jeep universal style vehicle.

There may be a way to get the speed signal needed for the Liberty body control module by using a star-scan tool to enable the module to think it was a factory non-abs version. This would then allow a single tone wheel input to generate the speed signal needed for proper operation of stuff like the cruise control and speedometer.

This would be a way to NOT have to install the ABS computer OR the JK axles.

I think the source for the single tone ring could maybe be...

-A stock front TJ ABS unit-bearing. This would not be ideal since the computer could not sense and overspeed condition of the cruise control. It should function ok, but would not be safe in my opinion.

-Retro-fitting the rear diff with a tone ring? I don't know if anyone offers this in a TJ diff? I am sure someone like Dynatrac or Currie might be able to get something like this to work. Having to use a custom axle is a bit of a pain in the butt.

-I think the tone ring off the back of a standard 2003+ TJ transfer case might work. This is what a TJ uses for a speed signal so it might be close in pattern and speed. I think this might be able to be retro-fitted to the CRD np242 t-case also using XJ parts.....

Just a few thoughts....

[grecy]

Has anyone made an appeal to AEV to release the info we all need to make this conversion a reality?

Honestly, I understand Dave and the crew don't want to do another because it's a major PITA, and that's cool.
They have no business case, and no interest, so why can't they make the info public so others can benefit from this great (and challenging) idea?

-Dan

[bugnout]

-Retro-fitting the rear diff with a tone ring? I don't know if anyone offers this in a TJ diff? I am sure someone like Dynatrac or Currie might be able to get something like this to work. Having to use a custom axle is a bit of a pain in the butt.

there were a few D44's shipped in Liberty's to South America with tone rings. I think someone found D44 with tone rings out of a Izusu Rodeo as well. I know of one guy who got his hands on one of those.

TJKJ2002 over on www.lostjeeps.com did a SFA conversion and solved the issue without having to install a tone ring. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=29930&hilit=tone+ring

[Metcalf]

AEV used one of there gateway modules to make the swap happen. It also required some custom code for the module (speed signal) The white RHD LJ also used a T1 military gauge cluster which you can't get.

Dave has been pretty forthcoming with info on the AEV board.

And yes, the swap was a major PITA from what I heard.

If I had more space I would probably tackle the swap. I would basically need a shop big enough to strip both vehicles....and leave them in parts for a few months while I built/modified the harness. It's on my bucket list.

Using the liberty gauge cluster and BCM has the potential to solve most of the issues with the swap I think.

[Metcalf]

there were a few D44's shipped in Liberty's to South America with tone rings. I think someone found D44 with tone rings out of a Izusu Rodeo as well. I know of one guy who got his hands on one of those.

TJKJ2002 over on www.lostjeeps.com did a SFA conversion and solved the issue without having to install a tone ring. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=29930&hilit=tone+ring

This post deserves an icy cool beverage. I was actually researching the D44 tone rings today. I must have missed this post when I was posting my last one.

The ability to either add a D44 tone ring or use the t-case output driven sensor can solve the speed problem IF the body control module can be set to a 'non-abs' setting with a dealer style computer tool ( starscan? )

The RD116 Air locker is machined for an ABS tone ring per ARB literature.

I found the part number 4384226 for the tone ring on the KJ rear axle. This is suppose to be a 104 tooth unit ( not confirmed yet ).

Who wants a conversion kit :wings:

[Beowulf]

Weren't there LJ's made for the eqyptian military with the diesel? Shouldn't there be a computer/cluster/....misc parts that were made. Of course I think there were less than 10K made and I'm sure Jeep did not make extras.

I could have sworn I saw on some jeep forum somewhere, or maybe a magazine where someone bought one and did all the swaping.

[Metcalf]

Jeep made the T1 with a version of the 2.8 diesel. It longer than the LJ at a 116" wheelbase.

http://image.4wheeloffroad.com/f/13091916+w750+st0/131_0903_02_z+2007_jeep_military_t1+drivers_side_v iew.jpg

Mopar Skunkworks used one of these jeeps for the 'crate engine' concept a few years back at EJS.....

http://image.4wheeloffroad.com/f/10968039+w750+st0/131_0807_01_z+2005_jeep_tj_wrangler_diesel+front_v iew.jpg

Article here...

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/engine/131_0807_jeep_tj_wrangler_diesel_crate_engine/index.html

Sad fact is that we just can't get the diesel 'BUX' parts here in the USA. The T1 was a military issue jeep like the J8. AEV managed to get a gauge cluster for there white LJ swap, but they said you can't get them.

The easiest way to get the diesel is going to be a liberty CRD swap I fear....

[alosix]

There may be a way to get the speed signal needed for the Liberty body control module by using a star-scan tool to enable the module to think it was a factory non-abs version. This would then allow a single tone wheel input to generate the speed signal needed for proper operation of stuff like the cruise control and speedometer.

Are we working on a PCI bus setup or a CANBus setup?

On my short list of stuff to get working is getting the speed signal into a CANBus hemi ECU from the abs unit to get the 545 shifting right. I think I might still have to source an abs unit to figure out the signals though.

Likely working with an Arduino based controller for this in my project. Since I don't have a FC, ABS, or 'interior' computer I've been having to replicate some of their functionality in my M725 project.

I got the 4wd switch working not too long ago. Just need to build a 30 amp h-bridge so I can shift its NP244 HD.

Jason

[Metcalf]

The Liberty uses most of the bus types....

ECU is Can-c
ABS is Can-c
Front control module is the Can-c to PCI interface gateway
TCM uses an SCI interface I think
Body Control Module is PCI I think.
Dash cluster is PCI I think.

The front control module acts as a gateway module allowing most of them to talk back and forth.

[alosix]

The Liberty uses most of the bus types....

ECU is Can-c
ABS is Can-c
Front control module is the Can-c to PCI interface gateway
TCM uses an SCI interface I think
Body Control Module is PCI I think.
Dash cluster is PCI I think.

The front control module acts as a gateway module allowing most of them to talk back and forth.

Ah, ok. EXACTLY what I'm dealing with in the hemi (05 durago, though the body's are can-b).

So.. I'd bet we're looking at getting the same message onto the bus. I really need to break down and get a can-c abs module to test with.