'04 DC Suspension Advice

[aheiser]

Hey Everyone! I've been digging in and searching all the info on the board. I love it here! All the rigs are so inspiring!

Anyway, I have a build planned for my '04 Taco DC and despite searching and reading hundreds of good posts, I'm still going back and forth about what to run in terms of a suspension/lift. I typically like doing things only once, but I don't have loads of money laying around to throw at it (does anybody I guess? lol).

To start, I'm shooting for a 2.5-3" lift, some 285/75's, and an ARB bumper with an M8000 in it. I figure it will be nice to get the weight up front at the same time as the lift so I can get the ride height correct from the beginning. So here comes my point of indecision. Many people seem to say that an OME lift all around with 882s in front will do me just perfect. Simple, performs well, is affordable, etc. Others seem to state that adjustable coilovers perform better, are adjustable, some are rebuild-able, etc. So ultimately, the questions I seem to still have, and would like some input on are:

* How much do you think I'd appreciate the adjustability of a coilover? I like the rear end to sit at least level if not a little higher, like stock. So I'm looking for probably 2.5-3 in front and 3-3.5 in back. Will 882s with trim packers get me there? And allow me adjustment room?

* If I do head the way of adjustable coilovers, and if I couldn't swing the price of say Donahoes, are something like the Toytec COs still very good? I suppose if enough people were to tell me "Yes, the donahoes are absolutely worth 400-600 more than OME coils or low end adjustable coilovers" I would consider them. But I'm hoping to keep things a bit cheaper than that overall.

Thanks for any advice, criticism, trash-talking because of a repeat subject :D

[TEJASYOTA]

It depends on what you plan to do with your rig....or how hard you plan to wheel or expo or mud or DD your truck. It all adds up to what you need.

Not sure if you saw this thread during your searching.
What to ask yourself, before purchasing a suspensions system - click here (http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94262)

It will help ask some of the questions you need to ask yourself.
Then there are links that are very good information on the different IFS systems out in the market (note that Donahoes = Hoes = ICON).

The two you mentioned in your link will do the job, but I if you ready do plan to use the ARB bumper, I would vote for an adjustable CO for the front. Be it ICON, SAWs or FOX.

keep reading and asking the questions.
Hey post up a pic of your truck.

[mtnbike28]

I don't know how the road salt is in N. Colo., but here in NY, everyone who bought the adjustable/rebuild-able fronts said they wouldn't do it again, they are rusting solid.... granted this is a small sample size, 4 people, but I went with OME... not sure/doubt if it would fit 285s, I stopped at 235/85 16s

just my 2 cents

[aheiser]

Hey good point! That would be important info! I would describe my usage of this truck as light to heavy-moderate off-roading. Mostly in the rocky mountains in CO, perhaps some in Moab, etc. So not a lot of mud, swamp blasting, or dune jumping.

We do a lot of camping but typically my load out will be two adults, and maybe ~300 lbs of gear including truck stuff, water, etc. We go pretty light.

Sounds like in the rear, something like the OME springs will work pretty well. Is there a good reason to spend the extra on deavers or alcans even if I don't really load the truck down hard?

Here's a pic from last year right after I got it. Not much has changed except of course the removal of the cheesey nerf bars :D

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx330/m4sh00ter/Stock.jpg

[aheiser]

I don't know how the road salt is in N. Colo., but here in NY, everyone who bought the adjustable/rebuild-able fronts said they wouldn't do it again, they are rusting solid.... granted this is a small sample size, 4 people, but I went with OME... not sure/doubt if it would fit 285s, I stopped at 235/85 16s

just my 2 cents

Hmmm. Good thoughts. Here in Northern CO, they don't use salt, but nearly as bad, they use a lot of Mag Chloride. I'm fairly meticulous about washing my truck and getting the crap off of it as soon as it gets nice, but that's certainly a concern.

[seanz0rz]

with that much weight up front, i would highly recommend sonoran steel's lift using the tundra coils.

its a tundra coil with an adjustable bilstein 5100 shock, plus diff drop. you can piece it together your self if you wish to, might be cheaper.

with this front lift you can run 285/75r16 with a little trimming of the pinchweld. its what i run in mine with shrockworks bumper and more recently a smittybilt xrc8 winch with standard steel line. it gives me a great ride and plenty of flex in the front.

i wouldnt go much past 2.5 inches of lift on the front, thats when you really start blowing out cv's at full droop.

cant comment on the rear setup, i know nothing about leaf springs.

[cruiseroutfit]

Running a near identical 'Radiant Red' 04' DC with a customized OME setup all the way around. The rear springs have beyond proven themselves and the front coils/struts are a great combination of suspension attributes and longevity alike. With the Utah winters the threaded body adjustable coil-overs just don't last and rebuilds can be timely and costly alike.

Here is a great thread on the front suspension options:
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30469&highlight=shock
(4Runner & Tacomas use the same basic front end components)

[007]

I've had the OME and the Donahoe setup. I prefer the coil overs for baja type driving over long distances because they don't heat up and fade.

If shock fade is not a concern or something that you notice I would certainly go with the heavy coiled OME.

If you do get adjustable coil overs you can spray them with a product called fluid film a couple times a year.

[aheiser]

Thanks guys, this is some great info. I wasn't familiar with the Sonoran Steel lift, I'm going to do some reading on it. So far, it sounds like for sort of "slow crawling" and rocky stuff, I may not reap some of the benefit of something like the Icons, etc. I do like however that the icons and similar CO's are easily adjustable without disassembling.

One last question. Any reason with an OME setup to go with bilstein 5X00 series shocks front and rear as opposed to the OME shocks? At least other than the fact that I don't like yellow? :p

[grouch]

I have Donahoes on my 03 that I put on when I lived in CA. I was worried about the salt once I moved to CT but this has proven to be unfounded. My shock bodies have taken on a dull look to them but no corrosion. They are still completely adjustable. The only thing I do is wash the truck after a the salt is off the roads. When they are shot, I will replace them with a new set because I am too lazy to rebuild them.

[Willman]

Love the Color!!

I love my Donahoes! They are worth every penny! I do see many used pairs come up for sale on TTORA..

For the rear....I'm running Deavers....they are a great spring for the most part. They flex great....some people have had problems with them breaking and not holding the weight...These OME Dakkar rear springs (http://www.sierraexpeditions.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1045) are my next set!! Sierra Expedition (http://www.sierraexpeditions.com/index.php) is selling a package deal on a rear kit.

If i was you....get the Donahoes and the Dakkars!

Hope this helps!

:)

[aheiser]

Love the Color!!

I love my Donahoes! They are worth every penny! I do see many used pairs come up for sale on TTORA..

For the rear....I'm running Deavers....they are a great spring for the most part. They flex great....some people have had problems with them breaking and not holding the weight...These OME Dakkar rear springs (http://www.sierraexpeditions.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1045) are my next set!! Sierra Expedition (http://www.sierraexpeditions.com/index.php) is selling a package deal on a rear kit.

If i was you....get the Donahoes and the Dakkars!

Hope this helps!

:)

Wow, so you're actually interested in replacing the Deavers with OMEs? Seems like people really describe Deavers as the best rear spring.

[austintaco]

I am running the tundra coils and red/blue bilsteins from a TRD tundra up front and a pair of 3" ALL Pro springs in the back.
Here's a link to some installs of tundra coils. I have the red/black tacoma at the bottom.
http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=49.0

When I put everything on, I think I gained just under 3" in the front and just over 3" in the rear. The rear settled more than the front and after a few months I had 2.75" up front and 3" in the rear.
The ARB up front dropped me down another 1/4" to 2.5".

However, I didn't think this completely through when I bought everything and the All Pro's don't support all of my gear. With a loaded up truck, the springs flexed significantly and I had about 1/2" before rubbing, but they were designed for flex not carrying a load.

For the front, I want to change to adjustable bilsteins, and I am still trying to decide what to do for the rear. I thought Deavers would be the way to go, but maybe I will look into the Dakkars.

[Howard70]

Hello Guys:

We're running Alcans on the rear of our DC 2004. They were great springs, but have settled under our loads and I'm looking for a replacement that is a better load-carrying spring - thinking about the OME Dakkars several of you have mentioned. When I ordered the Alcans, I had the axle position moved slightly to better fit the 255/85 MT's. That seemed to work great.

So here's the question - as the OME Dakkar's are off-the-shelf and not a custom fabricated spring like the Alcans or Deavers, do they position the rear axle well for the 33 - 34" diameter 255/85 MT's?

Howard

[aheiser]

And to add to Howard's question, how much lift do most people see out of the rear OME Dakars? I'm looking for probably 3-3.5", unloaded. But I seem them listed as 2.25". Am I pretty much going to have to beef them up or go with some 1" lift shackles?

[cruiseroutfit]

Who makes these Dakkars :D Its Emu Dakar by Old Man Emu :D

They are off the shelf and from OME only come in one variety for use in Tacoma. Several of us have found some tweaks to beef them up using commonly available OME AAL's but out of the box they are just a single spring.

I posted a couple pics here that you can see the axle alignment:
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=537815&postcount=57

Some have found it necissary to relocate the axle using the common plates, I'm inclined to beleive there is a slight difference in the openings, particularly on the 96/97 in which they actually used a different spring lenght and must be modified to fit the OME or other common Tacoma springs.

[007]

So here's the question - as the OME Dakkar's are off-the-shelf and not a custom fabricated spring like the Alcans or Deavers, do they position the rear axle well for the 33 - 34" diameter 255/85 MT's?
Howard

They did on mine, but some I know have had to relocate. I think there are variables in trucks and possibly body styles.


And to add to Howard's question, how much lift do most people see out of the rear OME Dakars? I'm looking for probably 3-3.5", unloaded. But I seem them listed as 2.25". Am I pretty much going to have to beef them up or go with some 1" lift shackles?

Yes

[austintaco]

I just heard back from All Pro about adding an AAL to their spring pack. They are working on one now to go with their springs, but mentioned Trailmaster as one that seemed to work in the past.
Their relocation plates for 1st gen 4runners will work with the Tacoma.

[TangoBlue]

And to add to Howard's question, how much lift do most people see out of the rear OME Dakars? I'm looking for probably 3-3.5", unloaded. But I seem them listed as 2.25". Am I pretty much going to have to beef them up or go with some 1" lift shackles?

Straight Dakar's with the Dakar AAL will give you the 3-3.5" but you will have to drill the hole to accept the centering pin on my 2001 extended cab. Also count on adding an axle relocation plate to center a 33" tire in the wheel well; I used Roger Brown's (4crawler). Also will need extended shocks - I replaced my OME N85 with N76.

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

My truck is set up with All-Pro front shocks. However, instead of the Tacoma springs that all-pro sells with the shocks, mine have the tundra springs (to support the extra weight of all the junk up front)- so essentially I'm running off-the-shelf Bilstein coil-overs for a Tundra (order them from any Bilstein dealer) with the all-pro upper mounting plate for a Tacoma. They support a TJM bumper with a Warn 9000, and seem to do fine. The rubber mounting bushings have worn out after many, many off road miles, but they are a $2.50 item direct from Bilstein, and can be swapped out fairly easily.

For the rear I have Deavers springs and Donahoe remote reservoir shocks. I have found them to have a really nice ride both on and off road, as well as great flex off road.

Has anyone brought up 63" Chevy springs for the rear as an economical alternative?

[aheiser]

Straight Dakar's with the Dakar AAL will give you the 3-3.5" but you will have to drill the hole to accept the centering pin on my 2001 extended cab. Also count on adding an axle relocation plate to center a 33" tire in the wheel well; I used Roger Brown's (4crawler). Also will need extended shocks - I replaced my OME N85 with N76.

No kidding? Did you mostly relocate the axle for aesthetic purposes? Or to prevent rubbing? And moved it rearward I'd guess?

What do people think about the AAL vs longer shackle in this case? Worth looking at shackles or will the AALs perform better?

[cruiseroutfit]

...What do people think about the AAL vs longer shackle in this case? Worth looking at shackles or will the AALs perform better?

Load capacity. As many of us continue to add things to our builds or haul more and more out into the wilds, the springs are getting taxed, the AAL bumps up the active spring rate of the leafs whereas a shackle would increase height without a spring rate change. Both could be beneficial, just depends on the users needs.

[aheiser]

That makes total sense! Thanks.

Sounds like if I want the tail to sit a bit higher, and I have the front at 2.5-3, I'll pretty much count on doing the AAL/Shackle from the very beginning.

[TangoBlue]

No kidding? Did you mostly relocate the axle for aesthetic purposes? Or to prevent rubbing? And moved it rearward I'd guess?

What do people think about the AAL vs longer shackle in this case? Worth looking at shackles or will the AALs perform better?

Me kid? No way. Had to move the axle rearward because of the rubbing when the tire got stuffed - about the lower 2-3 inches on the flares. I recall the ExpeditionWest Tacoma build mentions the same thing as do several other threads when installing Dakars and larger tires (mine are 285s).

[aheiser]

Me kid? No way. Had to move the axle rearward because of the rubbing when the tire got stuffed - about the lower 2-3 inches on the flares. I recall the ExpeditionWest Tacoma build mentions the same thing as do several other threads when installing Dakars and larger tires (mine are 285s).

Great, good to know as I'm pretty set on Dakars for the rear and I really like the 285s. Also appreciate the info on the shocks as I would have guessed the N85s would have been sufficient.

[austintaco]

What about the Zuk mod?

http://yotatech.com/f116/zuk-s-coil-spring-mod-saggy-rear-leaf-springs-199860/

Zuk has a bunch of applications on his page, but I am thinking of trying this on one of my trucks.

[Howard70]

...Had to move the axle rearward because of the rubbing when the tire got stuffed...ExpeditionWest Tacoma build mentions the same thing as do several other threads when installing Dakars and larger tires...

Are you guys sure that you moved the axle back (rearward)? I'm pretty sure that I had Alcan move the locating pin forward by 1/2 to 5/8ths of an inch to center the axle in the rear fender well of my 2004 double cab.

I just looked up Scott's old write up on the 255/85/16s and here's what he suggested regarding centering the axle:

"Rear: Deaver custom 10 leaf pack with .5" center pin adjustment to midline of truck. Expedition load height: 1.75-2.00". The rear suspension is critical to fitting these tires, as the center pin MUST be moved forward .5" to allow full compression or the tire will destroy the rear of the wheelwell. Shocks are Bilstein 5100, extended length"

Again, the pin was moved forward. I'll admit that I'm geometrically challenged so I could be wrong, but I think that moving the pin forward moves the axle forward, doesn't it?

Howard

[TangoBlue]

You're absolutely right moving the pin forward does move the axle forward.

I moved mine to the rear since the tire was rubbing on the front of the fender and it was a half inch forward of off center. The relocation plate with the half inch offset to the rear centered the axle in the wheel well and no longer do I have rubbing on the front of the fender anymore. Plenty of opportunity to validate that modification about a week later in Moab.

I'm thinking that since I'm running Dakar's and the other folks you cited were running Deavers or Alcan's, therein may be the difference. I think anyone who replaces leaf springs with anything other than OEM may expect a little difference in the centering of their axle. Just my observation, YMMV.

[Howard70]

Hello Tango:

Interesting! I noticed from your signature line that you're in an extended cab while I'm in a double cab. That could account for the difference also. The take home message is that everyone ought to take measurements of their own set up to make sure they get the best results!

Attached is a photo of the measurements I used for our truck (atcually our 1st truck that was totalled by a drunk driver).

Howard

[TangoBlue]

Excellent point Howard. Different truck-body styles in addition to different manufacturer's springs might also contribute to how the axle sits in relationship to the frame, too. I agree with you conclusion, "take measurements of their own set up to make sure they get the best results."

After this dialog, I dug up this pic from before installing the axle relocation plate... from the front bottom of the flare mounting bolt and on down is where the contact did occur but is now remediated by relocating the axle rearward.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp22/TangoBlue/CIMG0730.jpg

[aheiser]

Hello Tango:

Interesting! I noticed from your signature line that you're in an extended cab while I'm in a double cab. That could account for the difference also. The take home message is that everyone ought to take measurements of their own set up to make sure they get the best results!

Attached is a photo of the measurements I used for our truck (atcually our 1st truck that was totalled by a drunk driver).

Howard

Howard, just to check, are you running 255s in this photo? Or 285s?

[aheiser]

Good discussion. It sounds like really I just need to have the relocation plate handy as I lift the truck. That way, I can take measurements as I go and move things appropriately.

[TangoBlue]

Good discussion. It sounds like really I just need to have the relocation plate handy as I lift the truck. That way, I can take measurements as I go and move things appropriately.

Roger that. Or rather wait after you get everything mounted up the way you want; suspension, tires, wheels, and then see how it all sits. If it's not the way you like, rubbing fore or aft, order the plates from your favorite vendor or call up Roger Brown (4crawler) and he can build them to your specification.

[Howard70]

Howard, just to check, are you running 255s in this photo? Or 285s?

255/85/16's. That would definitely effect how the fender was filled out, but I don't think it should affect what it would take to center the axle.

Howard

[cruiseroutfit]

Some more on the relocation plate and axle centering discussion:
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19699&highlight=dakar

Regarding the rear shock options. The N76's may work for some but may be too long (~16"-24" for the N76 vs ~14"-23" for the N85) for others, this obviously depending on the load setup of their truck as well as the addition of an AAL or taller shackle. Likewise some are using the N94's which are spec'd as the lighter shock option, I'm not a fan, even less of a fan on heavy build trucks like many found here ie rtt's, canopy's, payload, etc. I ran them on my very first iteration ~01' and changed them out in less than a year. For that reason I've found the best results (both personally and with customers rigs) using the N85's. Of course the N91S front and N85 rear combo has now been replaced by the new Nitrocharger Sport (90004 & 60062 respectively). I've had the fronts on for several months and just installed the new rears, so far so good :cool:

[TangoBlue]

You're absolutely right in pointing this our Kurt. We only went with the N76 after getting additional lift after mounting the AAL. There was perhaps an inch of extension with the N85's which would have made that shock the limiting factor with any kind of flex. I wouldn't recommend this to just any truck - only if you know the type of load and wheeling you'll be doing and with the addition of the AAL.

[cruiseroutfit]

You're absolutely right in pointing this our Kurt. We only went with the N76 after getting additional lift after mounting the AAL. There was perhaps an inch of extension with the N85's which would have made that shock the limiting factor with any kind of flex. I wouldn't recommend this to just any truck - only if you know the type of load and wheeling you'll be doing and with the addition of the AAL.

Hey TangoBlue, what suspension are you running on the front?

[TangoBlue]

This is my suspension:
2 x OME 882 Front Coil Springs
2 x CS046R Rear Leaf Springs; added a Dakar AAL 29XL because they were running flat.
2 x OME N91S Shocks
2 x OME N85 Shocks; swapped for N76 shocks to increase travel for the added height of the AAL.
2 x OME SB43 Bushing Kit
1 x OME GS12 Shackle Kit

[cruiseroutfit]

This is my suspension:
2 x OME 882 Front Coil Springs
2 x CS046R Rear Leaf Springs; added a Dakar AAL 29XL because they were running flat.
2 x OME N91S Shocks
2 x OME N85 Shocks; swapped for N76 shocks to increase travel for the added height of the AAL.
2 x OME SB43 Bushing Kit
1 x OME GS12 Shackle Kit

Cool, thanks! :cool:

[aheiser]

Do you guys think that if I don't need a lot of extra load bearing capability over stock, the AAL's will be too stiff and I should go with shackles for a little bit of lift instead?

[cruiseroutfit]

Do you guys think that if I don't need a lot of extra load bearing capability over stock, the AAL's will be too stiff and I should go with shackles for a little bit of lift instead?

Yes, I would start with a tad taller shackle versus height at the expense of ride quality. OME Dakars are a dual stage spring (ie overloads) so the ride is satisfactory when unloaded regardless imo but the AAL does add a fair amount of spring rate (figure roughly 10-20%) which can absolutely be noticeable in the cab.

[aheiser]

Yes, I would start with a tad taller shackle versus height at the expense of ride quality. OME Dakars are a dual stage spring (ie overloads) so the ride is satisfactory when unloaded regardless imo but the AAL does add a fair amount of spring rate (figure roughly 10-20%) which can absolutely be noticeable in the cab.

Great thanks! That brings up one more question. If I do go with some shackles, who makes a good 3/4" lift shackle that works with OME springs? Anything that works with stock Taco springs will work with the Dakars?

[cruiseroutfit]

Great thanks! That brings up one more question. If I do go with some shackles, who makes a good 3/4" lift shackle that works with OME springs? Anything that works with stock Taco springs will work with the Dakars?

The Dakars themselves absolutely. However there are two different bushing kits available for the Tacoma rear springs, varying by the shackles used. Make sure to address that when ordering.

[jjjewett]

Kurt,

How do you like the 60062 compared to the N85 in the rear?

-JJ

[cruiseroutfit]

Kurt,

How do you like the 60062 compared to the N85 in the rear?

-JJ

It has not been as noticeable as the change in the front however I can say I'm completely satisfied with my ride quality. As many know my current 04' Tacoma has had no fewer than 10 different iterations of suspension under it. I can honestly say its set for the remainder of my ownership :D

[Box Rocket]

Has anyone found a suitable option for longer shackles to work with the rear dakar springs?

I'm on the search and could use some help.

Here's the best options I've found so far..... the Toytec 1" lift shackles should work and allow me to reuse the greasable OME shackle pins. Could require redrilling the shackle plates to correct size.

The Daystar 1.25" lift shackles might work too if you needed a little more height but since they have a center support I'm uncertain if they are the correct width for the OME bushings.

Tacoma Extended Shackles (http://www.wheelersoffroad.com/gstacoma.htm)

[6string]

Has anyone found a suitable option for longer shackles to work with the rear dakar springs?

I'm on the search and could use some help.


I went with All-Pro here (http://www.allprooffroad.com/9504tacomarearsuspension/9504springshackles). No worries. Easy install and they did the job great. Recommended.