Rubicon...Is it worth it? [Archive]

Wanderlusty

01-03-2007, 12:35 AM

Ok, when it was TJ's, I could easily see that the Rubicon was definitely worth the price. I did not see this in time, unfortunately, and ended up with the (lowly?) X.

But as I look over the options on the new JK, I have to admit I don't know if the Rubicon is worth the $6,000 premium it costs over a similarly equipped X.

To compare and contrast:

Dana 44 Rear - Both Rubicon and X have Dana 44 rears standard on Unlimited

Dana 44 Fronts- Only Rubicon, but the Dana 30 has proven to be a tough axle, and the 'new' Dana 30 is even beefier, I hear.

T-Case: Rubi has a lower 4lo. However, at least in the TJ, I have always found the 'regular' T-Case to be just fine.

Lockers: Ok, Rubi advantage here.

Gears: Rubi is standard with 4:10's...X can be ordered with 4:10's at no charge.

Tires: Rubi has 32 inch BFG's, X has...rubber bands...

So the way I see it, where the Rubi edges the X is lockers, tires and T-Case.

The T-Case, as long as you don't live to rockcrawl, I don't see as an issue.

The tires...I would probably be swapping to 35's with a 3-4 inch lift, so that is kind of irrelevant.

The lockers...ok, I have no good answer here. Yes, I want lockers, but lockers can be added for maybe 2k for selectable lockers (ARB) so that still leaves a 4K difference in price.

Odds are that I am still going to try my darndest to get the Rubi anyway, but I am not as convinced as before that it is worth the premium.

Am I not considering something? Agree? Disagree?

detailbarn

01-03-2007, 12:44 AM

personally I like to build my trucks the way I want them so I would start with an x. The way I see it building the truck up yourself will allow you to build a better truck overall that suits your specific needs. You may find that you don't need all that the rubicon offers but if buy one you're stuck with it. However if you buy an x you can progressively build it up to the level of performance you need.

Scott Brady

01-03-2007, 12:56 AM

You get the equivalent of nearly $10,000 worth of aftermarket parts in that package and they are under warranty. Pretty smokin deal IMHO.

Wanderlusty

01-03-2007, 01:02 AM

You get the equivalent of nearly $10,000 worth of aftermarket parts in that package and they are under warranty. Pretty smokin deal IMHO.

Yea, I can see that if you were rippin' and replacin', but the stuff in the X has a $ value too. (Axles/T-Case) so I guess that bears some considering.

This is mostly a mental exercise, I imagine, though, because I have lusted over a Rubi for a long time. Why let economics bother me now...

Detailbarn: I hear you. The whole "built vs. bought" deal. And I do want to 'Build' mine to some extent. However...I don't think that the Rubi comes with anything I "DON'T" want...save for $6k more on the sticker...

upcruiser

01-03-2007, 01:23 AM

Interesting post. I did not realize they upgraded axle specs on the new X's for the Unlimiteds. The Rubi is a great vehicle for sure, but I could see the X representing a better value relativel speaking for sure.

goodtimes

01-03-2007, 01:42 AM

If you are going to be adding lockers, tires, t'case gears, etc to an X....then yes, I think the Rubicon is worth the money. The rubicons are pretty much ready to go out of the box, where the X will need some work before tackling some of the moderate to difficult trails. IMO, it really depends on what kind of trails you are going to be on, and if you do your own wrenching. Anyone priced a pair of ARB's and the install recently? That is half of the premium of the rubicon right there!

Wanderlusty

01-03-2007, 02:50 AM

Well, what I have travelled so far is about a 2.5 to 3 on the Scotty Scale. The X that I have has never even shown signs of strain. Though it is not completely stock, sporting 3 inch lift and 33 inch tires, it is open diffs and even the :yikes: Dana 35 rear. It hasn't broke yet. I have never been stranded by break down or 'stuck' or to be honest, challenged at all, save for the challenge of picking a good line, which I seem to do ok at.

But at the same time, there are a lot of trails I have not gone on, or turned around when I looked ahead and decided that it would be beyond the capability of my vehicle. Many chances are that I would have made most of those, but I often am a lone vehicle, so I wisely shy away from what can really get me in trouble.

And I do know that I will hit trails when I go out west where some of the stuff the Rubi comes with stock is more "Necessity" than "Luxury" in a lot of cases.

I had priced the ARB lockers themselves, and guesstimated on the labor, but I may be a bit shy.

I just know that when I buy, I intend to upgrade the tire and suspension anyway, so the nicer tires and such were a wash as far as the Rubi goes.

The lift and tires may not be a neccessity for most stuff I run, but I know I have used my breakover angle that I enjoy on my TJ enough to know that I need to do what I can to increase the breakover angle on a JK. The Unlimited is SO much longer...and it fits 35's without near the trouble of the TJ...so that is why I am looking at that size.

But heck, I am sitting on this deal until I find out what they are going to do about DIESEL. Of course, that adds even MORE $$$...

"Just Empty Every Pocket" for sure...

goodtimes

01-03-2007, 03:04 AM

If you are thinking diesel....hold off for a year. ;)

Scott Brady

01-03-2007, 03:06 AM

Then again, my brother in law has run 3+ trails in his stock 4cyl/Auto TJ with 31" tires and sliders.

I just think that buying an engineered solution is almost always a better option. Especially when a 75,000 mile warranty is involved.

jeffryscott

01-03-2007, 03:15 AM

Buying it built, as in the Rubicon, you are ready to go, no down time getting lockers, etc ... put on. And as Scott says, warranty.

Plus, as you go more places, having "more" vehicle is always better ... thank of how much enjoyment you may have gotten had you gone down some of those roads you turned around at because you weren't sure the TJ was up to it ... As you learn more what the vehicle can do, your confidence and desire to push just a little more will certainly be rewarded by having the Rubicon - I could picture many situations when you would look at a trail and think, if I had bought the Rubicon I'd try that ... whereas I doubt there are too many situations you'd look at a trail and say, I have a Rubicon, It's too much truck for that trail ...;)

Scenic WonderRunner

01-03-2007, 03:18 AM

Funny this thread should show up today!

This morning I was up at 4:30am to take my daughter to the airport.....so she could go find the end of her rainbow in Hawaii.

I remembered seeing an ad in last nights paper regarding a new 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited ....at $6,000 OFF MSRP.

At 9AM this morning I was test driving my first ever Jeep.

A beautiful...white Rubicon Unlimited with "soft top".

$24,500..........after the $6,000 Off. And they were open to offers as today was the last day of the month and year for their dealership.

I took it on a 5 mile test drive which included one freeway entry merge (I was completely underwhelmed with by this merge!).

While trying to merge onto the freeway.....there was no kick down gear that appeared, so I just slowly gained speed.

I'm confused by the "diff lock" switch. I would like to see a switch that locks the front and rear separately, but there was no clue as to how it works....even in their catalog. The salesman didn't even know.

The steering appeared to have tons of over steer on the paved streets I was on. Woooooooo..........Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!

The tires were WAY too small............paleeeeeeeeeeeese!

There was plastic everywhere you looked!

I did not like the soft top (way too cold and noisy!) and knew I would Never use it offroad (way too much dust which would ruin my beautiful new Rubicon!)........so only a hartop would do!

I'm really trying to like this Jeep! I know it's good! ......and I respect the Jeeps and all the guys that drive them, own them and love them.

But somehow..........it just does not fit me.

I don't know why and can't explain it.

So.........Anyway!...........Is it a good deal at $6,000 OFF MSRP............?!!!!!! ............hehe

Somehow I think it would take at least another $5,000 to $10,000 for me to be happy with this.

So...........

How does one become a Jeep Luva>?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

cshontz

01-03-2007, 03:22 AM

The lockers and transfer case are gold. I tend to agree with Scott - plus, its all factory-installed equipment which eliminates the middle-man and pretty much ensures that it is done correctly. For what we do, I'd say a Rubicon would be more than worth it. But it also depends on you - you might find it more fun to build. :)

I've found for general overlanding the stock t-case is more than adequate, but the moment you set foot on something more technical, you'll love the control that a 4:1 transfer case has to offer. In many cases, that kind of granny makes using your pedals unnecessary, which is wicked cool.

Add lockers to the equation, and technical driving becomes as simple as point-and-shoot.

cshontz

01-03-2007, 03:31 AM

Oh, and don't forget the electronic swaybar disconnects that are now available on the 2007 Rubicons! Sure, its an electronic gizmo that really has yet to be proven on the trail, but that should seal the deal regardless. Manual disconnects are a pita.

Jeepers should never leave the pavement without disconnecting the front swaybar, whether its a gravel driveway or the Rubicon trail. Seriously. ;)

Gear

01-03-2007, 05:57 AM

I'd buy it. Where is it located in San Diego. My kids need the leg room.

Or will I just have to wait for the Diesel 4 Door Rubicon. When ever that happens.

Wanderlusty

01-03-2007, 01:42 PM

Then again, my brother in law has run 3+ trails in his stock 4cyl/Auto TJ with 31" tires and sliders.

Anyone who has spent some time in a Jeep on a trail, even in stock, non-Rubi form...it is amazing what these machines are capable right out of the box.

As far as Diesel...I am waiting for it for now, but it isn't neccessarily a foregone conclusion that I would end up with a diesel. But I like the idea...

The other consideration is Manual vs Auto. For me, my TJ has the 5 speed, and I :drool: over the 6 speed. However, I want my wife to get more involved, both riding along more and driving. Driving a manual is something she can't, or won't do. So thinking auto for that reason. I kinda wanna :violent-smiley-031: and MAKE her learn manual, but that would probably be just mean.

Well, I am trying to wait a year anyway, because I want to pay down (or pay off?) the TJ and get the wife's car paid off too. But it will be hard, because it is getting really tiresome slinging a carseat in the back of a SWB TJ.

Robthebrit

01-03-2007, 04:46 PM

Not to hijack the thread but I have a pretty unique perspective on the manual/auto argument as my truck is effectively either. I can driver over an obstical as a stick shift, reverse and drive over it again as at auto!!

A stick will make you a better driver as you have another dimension of the vechicle control to deal with, however this additional level of control can get you in trouble by stalling in a really bad place. On the other hand with an auto its easy to mistake your ability for the capability of the truck as you effortlessly glide over steep obsticals without ever slipping a wheel. To make the required torqure to drive over a steep obstical with a gas engine you typically need high RPMs which and a stick puts you in a situation of high clutch wear and spinning wheels (your transfer case helps with this). In this same scenario the 3:1(maybe more) torque multiplication of the converter and the slippage allows for a lower engine RPM and no wheel slip. An automatic while driving offroad can easily get the tranny temperature light to come on as all that torque converter slippage generates a lot of heat, if you do a lot of driving on anything other than dirt roads you might want a tranny cooler and change your fluid more often. A stick in an diesel is a completely different beast and much easier to deal with.

Going downhill, the stick has an advantage, engine breaking is significantly reduced with a torque converter and in a small truck may not be effective at all. To get any engine breaking you typically have to shift to a lower gear which is a problem if you are already in the lowest gear. For me this is not a problem as A) I always have a lower gear B) I get pretty good engine breaking to start with as my torque converter is nearly 2 feet across C) I have an exhaust break and D) my converter locks up at 1600rpm so if I change to a low enough gear and get over 1600 rpms I get full engine breaking.

Not being able to handle a stick off road has the potential to damage the engine, for example accidently rolling back on a steep hill while in a too high forward gear and letting the clutch out, or you are already stalled, you start to roll back and you let the clutch out. Regardless of the setup you are trying to turn the engine over backwards and a lot of modern engines (and some old over head cam engines) will slip the timing and you'll be really stuck.

The mechanical reliability of a modern automatic is greater than a stick especially as the clutch in the stick shift ages. However, if a modern auto does break or goes into limp mode then you'll have problems getting it fixed in the middle of nowhere and you'll be driving home in 2nd gear! If you drive a stick to the middle of nowhere learn how to drive without the clutch just in case you need to.

Just my 2c, now back to the thread.

Rob

Wanderlusty

01-03-2007, 06:03 PM

Rob,

Well, if the 'Mog wasn't cool enough as is....

Anyway, I am comfortable with the Manual on the trail, and like the extra control it gives. It is really just a matter if my wife will drive it much more if I get an auto. I would hate to get an auto for her sake, then her never drive it...

I can see where an auto could be nice, onroad and off. I know around town, the stick sure does kinda get old, but it is worth it for me.

I AM concerned about heat buildup in the auto, though...another reason why personally I favor the 6 speed.

And from what I have heard from JK owners and folks that have test driven both is that the stick makes it at least FEEL as if you are getting better throttle response.

This whole 'drive-by-wire' deal sounds as if it changes the driving experience a bit and that in itself will take some getting used to.

If there is one thing I am not too keen on in regards to the new JK it is all the techno-gadgetry that they added compared to the TJ.

That isn't enough to dissuade me, though...

Scott Brady

01-03-2007, 06:10 PM

I run a manual in my Jeep because it makes the trails more challenging. For technical terrain, nothing beats an automatic for fine control and reduced drivetrain damage.

For an expedition rig, I would prefer a manual.

If I buy the JK, it will have the 6-speed.

I like a manual in my race trucks too.

cshontz

01-03-2007, 06:28 PM

In regard to transmissions, I swing both ways. Automatics seem to be more common in Cherokees, so that's what I currently run. I don't mind it, except steep descents make me nervous with an automatic. :smiley_drive:

Seems like a tough call, David. Sounds like something to discuss over a romantic dinner for two. :ylsmoke:

:removeredX:

Robthebrit

01-03-2007, 07:26 PM

It really is only something you (and your wife) can decide.

goodtimes

01-03-2007, 07:39 PM

I run a manual in my Jeep because it makes the trails more challenging. For technical terrain, nothing beats an automatic for fine control and reduced drivetrain damage.

I must disagree. A manual transmission, backed with the appropriate gear ratios in both transfer case(s) and differentials will provide more control than an automatic....you just need to know what you are doing. The automatic is definately more forgiving, but with with the manual transmission you can control the link between engine and drivetrain, and thus you have a better ability to control wheel speed. The Automatic you have to use the brakes to fight the transmission to accomplish this, which leads to goofy things happening with certain suspension systems (4 link suspensions with poor geometry are the worst...).

For pure finesse, manual trans and deep gearing are the way to go. For user-friendlyness, automatics are better.... IMO of course. :safari-rig:

Scott Brady

01-03-2007, 07:49 PM

I must disagree.

100% of competitive rock crawlers run automatic transmissions, which is done for fine control, minimal drivetrain wind-up (which leads to loss of traction) and reduced component failure due to the dampening affect of the torque converter. :ylsmoke:

But, manuals are way more fun :roost:

articulate

01-03-2007, 07:53 PM

Odds are that I am still going to try my darndest to get the Rubi anyway, but I am not as convinced as before that it is worth the premium.

Am I not considering something? Agree? Disagree?
Dave, I gave a "Depends/Don't know," just to be helpful. :)

The X package isn't going to be disappointing, except you'll have to go get new tires right away ( ;) ). Scotty and the boys have a good point about the lower t-case and factory lockers being installed by the manufacturer and covered with a nice warranty. It's good bang for the buck.

But if your buck isn't banging so well - as in your budget is tight - you're not selling yourself short by purchasing the X package. The t-case and lockers are expenive do-dads, but they are also gravy on a well-stacked plate. Luxuries, so to speak.

You asked, I gave. :beer:
Be well,
Mark

Robthebrit

01-03-2007, 07:57 PM

I am a stick person too so I have no idea why I am arguing for an auto... However, wouldn't that same gear setup with an auto would give equally fine control, you should not need to use the brakes except to keep it still, there is no stalling to deal with and you get the torque multiplication for smooth climbing.

I think thats what Scott is getting at.

Rob

goodtimes

01-03-2007, 08:39 PM

100% of competitive rock crawlers run automatic transmissions, which is done for fine control, minimal drivetrain wind-up (which leads to loss of traction) and reduced component failure due to the dampening affect of the torque converter. :ylsmoke:

But, manuals are way more fun :roost:

You are partially correct. They run automatics to save drivetrain components when they are hooked up to large displacement, no-muffler havin' engines which are used to get the croud worked up. Lots of tire spin, smoke, noise and carnage are used as advertisement. Another thing, the comp guys are usually running a manual valve body so they can start from a dead stop in whichever gear they want, very important with deep gearing and big vertical steps.

On the trail, I see more manual transmission buggies than I do automatics. I also see more small (4 cyl and v-6) engines than v-8s. If you want finesse, look at a linked/coil-overed buggy with a 22RE, 250:1 crawl ratio, manual transmission and sticky tires with about 4psi in them.

But I will agree that manuals are more fun too. :ylsmoke:

crawler#976

01-03-2007, 09:32 PM

I have a slightly modded Toy that has lower gear ratios (roughly a 5.2:1) than a Rubicon. With a 5 speed, there are certain obsticals I dread because I know I've got to heal and toe on a rock face...definately exciting, but not THAT exciting.

If I ever build another hardcore trail rig, it will be an automatic with an ORD doubler - the NP203/205 setup.

Down hill decents can be too slow with deep gears - good example is the exit of Martinez Canyon. I started down in low/low first and had the tires start to slide due to the loose terrain - shifted to 3rd and regained control.

'Nuther thing about an auto vs stick - the torque converter is effectively doubling (or even tripling depending on the stall speed) your gear ratios. I've driven my bud's V8 CJ-7 Jeep over the same trail as my beater, and it "feels" very similar in many respects, and then again very different too.

One more item. With low gear sets and a manual it is possible to back drive a clutch past it's RPM rating. If for some strange reason you have to use the clutch on a steep decent and let the rig roll without braking, the clutch RPM gets too high real, real fast. In double low I can hit 5000 RPM at just over 5 MPH, so at 10 to 15 MPH the clutch could easily exceed 10000 to 15000 RPM. Without a scatter sheild, things could get interesting to say the least.

Anyway, I'd certainly take the Rubicon package - to me it would be like buying a Taco without the TRD package - why???

Mark

Wanderlusty

01-03-2007, 09:34 PM

Dave, I gave a "Depends/Don't know," just to be helpful. :)

The X package isn't going to be disappointing, except you'll have to go get new tires right away ( ;) ). Scotty and the boys have a good point about the lower t-case and factory lockers being installed by the manufacturer and covered with a nice warranty. It's good bang for the buck.

But if your buck isn't banging so well - as in your budget is tight - you're not selling yourself short by purchasing the X package. The t-case and lockers are expenive do-dads, but they are also gravy on a well-stacked plate. Luxuries, so to speak.

You asked, I gave. :beer:
Be well,
Mark

I hear you and hear you again. Since I currently drive a TJ "X" as I believe you do too, I sure know that they can do quite well for themselves.

Hence why I hesitate to just automatically jump for the Rubi, despite all it comes with.

And how well my "buck is banging" come GO time will probably be a big factor.

I just want to consider all the angles. I am looking for the JK to be the truck I settle down with. I would love for the TJ to be such, as I love it.

But it is a few feet too short to comply with the addition of a "3rd passenger" and all the associated gear. Heck, just him in there in the back seat now renders the passenger seat useless.

Once he switches to forward facing, at least we will have that back, but between all that and the negative yardage behind the seat that barely holds a first aid kit....hello JK-U!

Getting a JK is mostly a foregone conclusion. Now I just have to settle in on what fits best.

The fact that I want to 'settle down' with this next vehicle for a while...good argument for the Rubi...

See...back and forth, back and forth...both arguments have their merit.

I am digging the side-topic of Auto vs. Manual. As for me personally, as Rob said, that decision will be between me and the wife. I will get whatever I darned well....am allowed to get...

4Rescue

01-04-2007, 03:57 AM

Scott Brady

01-04-2007, 04:10 AM

You are partially correct.

Just partially?

You don't think they run automatics for fine (infinite actually) control and to minimize drivetrain wind-up? I have been in competitive rock buggies as a ride along and between the cutting brakes (two), shifting the t-case and left foot braking I cannot imagine including a clutch in the equation and being competitive.

Honestly, I cannot think of one single advantage to a manual on technical terrain other than descending a hill.

I know that you like a manual Brian and so do I, and I am not trying to be argumentative either (as I have big time respect for your trail experience and knowledge), but I am just really struggling with how a manual would have any advantage on 4+ trails.

upcruiser

01-04-2007, 04:59 AM

I'm a manual lover myself. One thing that almost deterred me from the 80 was the auto tranny. That said though, I actually really do enjoy the ease of use. In my 60 and my old CJ5, I had gotten myself into predicaments on several occasions, stalling on steep inclines (usually related to the oversized Webber being finicky in the 60) and when I was really trying to creep through rough terrain with the stock gears and 33's. In the 80 it couldn't be simpler and to me makes it alot easier to squeeze in the throttle gradually and avoid wheelspin. Still though, from a tactile point of you, I prefer driving with a manual, just feels like I have more control. In sports cars I'd never consider an auto. Once you master the art of heel and toe and left foot braking in a manual trannied car on the track, you really start having fun.

goodtimes

01-04-2007, 05:35 AM

No argueing here Scott...I just honestly feel that an experienced driver has more control and finesse with a manual transmission and appropriate gearing than with an automatic. I also feel that rock buggies are generally not a prime example of control or finesse. Maybe the drivers are getting better with the un-needed use of power than they used to....I have not paid much attention to the competitions lately. On the trail, the guys running the manuals and deep gears make it look much easier than the automatics.

From personal experience with both automatics and manuals, I feel much more "connected" to a vehicle with a manual transmission. I [usually] know how to manipulate the transmission to get what I want...this is not really an option with a automatic. You get the gear that the PCM decides you need (yes, you can force it into a lower gear, but not a higher gear--unless you run a manual valve body, which is no fun on the street)

For example, last years ExTrophy event. When I was sitting at the bottom of the hill (start line) when I pre-ran the rally course. I was in 4-lo. If I was in an automatic, I would have stood on the gas, the jeep would have made it 1/2 way up the hill before it stopped accelerating, hesitating for a second as it grabbed 2nd gear. It would have carried 2nd gear through the immediate left (top of the hill) and probably tried to grab 3rd as I eased off the gas and made the right to head between the trees. Then when I got after it again, it would have downshifted, quite possibly back to 1st gear due to the low speed at which I made that off camber right hand turn, but it would have gone to second as soon as it found first due to the engine speed....

But, with the manual, I pushed it into 3rd gear, let loose of the clutch as I stood on the gas....and kept it in 3rd gear all the way until I made the right turn back into the wash (after turn 4). I was able to keep the engine RPM where I wanted, with a direct connection between the engine and transmission...no hunting for gears, no wondering what the heck the PCM was going to decide to do....it was where I wanted it and I knew what it was going to do.

Another example....front tires are on top of a large verticle step, rear tires are at the bottom. You don't have enough traction to crawl the ledge, so you need to bump it. With deep gears and an automatic, you start off in first gear, and may or may not build enough speed to give yourself the traction you need...you might very well need 2nd gear to give yourself the wheel speed in such a short distance. Going through 1st gear, waiting for the 1-2 upshift and then building wheel speed probably isn't an option....with a manual, pick the gear you need, put it there and go.

Then of course is the textbook Pyeatte move...come into a corner to hot in way to high of a gear (5th), downshift (to 3rd) with the expectation of accelerating out of the corner, but waiting to long to get back after the gas and end up sliding sideways down the road, hoping you don't hit the ditch or go wheels up....and hoping that guy that is right on your heels sees you and stops before his ARB bumper gets up close and personal with your door....OK, so maybe that isn't such a good example :hehe:

Now don't get me wrong...automatics are much easier to drive, they are more forgiving with the shock loads, they do offer a notable effective gear reduction, they are easier to feather the brakes with (control front wheel hop), and if you don't have deep enough gearing, they are much better....but, like I said, with the proper gearing, I think the manual is better on techincal terrain.

Oh, there is one more very good example of manuals being just too cool....The first time I got high centered in my jeep, 2 guys driving some big stupid ford super dutys told me I couldn't make it through the rock garden where they had stopped (FWIW, this was on Dishpan Springs, before they built the bridge). I got almost all the way through, literally getting stuck on the last damn rock. With the jeep idling in 4-lo/1st gear with both lockers on...I got out of the jeep, lifted up on the rear bumper and pushed forward, the jeep pulled itself off the rock, I looked back at the nay-sayers, walked back to the jeep (now idling down the trail), got back in and went on my way. You will simply never see the look on those guys faces when trying to get an automatic off that rock.

Scott Brady

01-04-2007, 05:47 AM

Then of course is the textbook Pyeatte move...come into a corner to hot in way to high of a gear (5th), downshift (to 3rd) with the expectation of accelerating out of the corner, but waiting to long to get back after the gas and end up sliding sideways down the road, hoping you don't hit the ditch or go wheels up....and hoping that guy that is right on your heels sees you and stops before his ARB bumper gets up close and personal with your door....OK, so maybe that isn't such a good example :hehe:

That WAS cool :)

On the above example (ExPo rally course), I would want a manual too. On the fast stuff, let me row the gears...

Wanderlusty

01-04-2007, 02:03 PM

Oh, there is one more very good example of manuals being just too cool....The first time I got high centered in my jeep, 2 guys driving some big stupid ford super dutys told me I couldn't make it through the rock garden where they had stopped (FWIW, this was on Dishpan Springs, before they built the bridge). I got almost all the way through, literally getting stuck on the last damn rock. With the jeep idling in 4-lo/1st gear with both lockers on...I got out of the jeep, lifted up on the rear bumper and pushed forward, the jeep pulled itself off the rock, I looked back at the nay-sayers, walked back to the jeep (now idling down the trail), got back in and went on my way. You will simply never see the look on those guys faces when trying to get an automatic off that rock.

Now that seems like a sweet move there. I can only imagine the looks on their faces!
:Wow1:

Wanderlusty

01-04-2007, 02:14 PM

As far as I know the New JK Rubicons use AAM axles same maker as they used on the Powerwagon and the HD Rams... Those are ALOT nicer axles than 44's, either way if were talking about the new JK's, I'd say buy an older(pre 07) base unlimited (cause the new JK unlimited is ****in AWFUL imo) and build it to suit, it has the 4.0L not the 3.8 and you can put D44's or D60's under it if thet's what you're wanting... There are suposed to be ALOT of mechanical improvements made to the Rubi's for 07, but they unfortunately come in the new ****ty body style with the junk motor and no 2dr LWB option. As far as I'm concerned, the 2dr unlimited was the best Jeep ever made... that's my .02

The new JK Rubi's still roll Dana 44's, albeit improved ones. From what I hear, they have more in common with a Dana 60 than the 44's that the TJ had.

As far as the TJ vs JK....I am a big fan of the TJ....I own one, and may try to keep it if finances allow (probably not... :( ) and am a HUGE fan of the 4.0. That engine is AWESOME.

But even a 2 door ULTD does not solve the problem of slinging a carseat into the back seat. It is really quite a feat of gymnastics...and it is getting old...

I don't really care for the techno-gadgetry that made it's way into the JK, but other than that, to me anyway, it still looks like a Jeep. And I think the 3.8, while it may not be the 4.0, will be fine...I think 'JUNK' is inaccurate. These same engines in the minivans have been known to go several hundred thousand miles. AND that isn't even including if the DIESEL comes.

I hate to see the TJ's go...but I think the JK's are fine...

86cj

01-06-2007, 01:06 AM

FAT-MAN,

I use my jeep much like you do and have faced the issues on your mind. I could have waited and got the Rubicon LWB instead of my Sport LWB, but a 4:1 T case would not work for me.
In 4 hi the 4.0 does not have enough power to pull the Jeep around loaded in anything soft or steep off road and heats up the convertor.(or smokes the clutch). A 4:1 can't generate the wheel speed needed for my type of wheeling, also a SYE would be nice but is not needed at my lift height (3").

I am going to have to regear axles Rubi or not, and with so many people crying about the "Poser" front 44, I choose to go with the Sport and sort out all the axle upgrades avaliable later. With the AEV Highline fender debute (35 or 37" tires small lift) the Rubi front 44 would not be the best choice anyway.

An auto works good for me as I never had any luck downshifting a manual on a hill climb without loosing to much momentum. A Jeep 6cyl can't rev enough to stay in first all the way up most hills and does not have enough power to pull anything higher at the top. I have had both in all conditions and prefer an auto.
From my experience an auto most likley will last the life of vehicle with no repairs just filter changes. A manual trans Will need a clutch someday and if a repair is needed to the manual box (CHING!! internals are ridiculous) you will wish for a commonly available rebuilt auto. "Of course if you reguarly rebuild your rig from junkyard parts disregard the rebuilt manual horror story"

calamaridog

01-06-2007, 07:38 AM

But, manuals are way more fun :roost:

I'd trade my automatic for a manual in a second (can you throw in roll-up windows and cloth seats?). Too bad they only offered the V8 with the 5spd manual overseas, otherwise I'd have one.

Manuals ARE way more fun. Most people lack the SKILL to properly use them. Heaven forbid that SKILL should be needed to drive in these competitions:D

And don't forget, what goes up must come down. Compression braking is a wonderful thing. The only saving grace going downhill with the 100 series is the awesome brakes.

I'd definitely buy the Rubicon, what a great package. I'd say that it's almost expedition ready. Just add storage and go!

calamaridog

01-06-2007, 07:43 AM

So...........

How does one become a Jeep Luva>?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark,

At SLOWER speeds, on a semi-technical trail, you would become a Jeep lover!

Z O O R O P A

01-06-2007, 07:17 PM

Scenic WonderRunner

01-07-2007, 01:47 AM

THANK YOU .....Calamaridog!....aka...Bryan.

Now I get it!

I do like the Jeep.....

.....and just think how much Kewler this whole Jeep thing will be with a future Diesel Engine!

....and YES.....I think it's worth it!

..........:bigbossHL:

Wanderlusty

01-07-2007, 02:02 AM

it will be 2 years atleast for a Diesel JK engine

the 6spd manual is so smooth, but if you live in a city where MOST of your driving is done - regardless an auto is worth it even if its your exped. vehicle.

Anyone who is using a JK for daily/weekly use and fairly frequent trail use will prefer an auto if you live in an area with a population over 100,000

City around 50,000 and even then, my standard does get old around town. But I cope...

But with talking to my wife, I think she is getting more and more interested in riding along and occasionally :smiley_drive: but still not enthusiastic about driving standard, so starting to lean towards the auto anyway. It is (current Jeep) and will be (Future Jeep?) my DD so I do need to think about what concessions I want to make to that end.

computeruser

01-07-2007, 01:14 PM

it will be 2 years atleast for a Diesel JK engine

the 6spd manual is so smooth, but if you live in a city where MOST of your driving is done - regardless an auto is worth it even if its your exped. vehicle.

Anyone who is using a JK for daily/weekly use and fairly frequent trail use will prefer an auto if you live in an area with a population over 100,000

Really? Seems like a bit of a leap from personal opinion to universal conclusion.

I spent years with a YJ with a stick, now have a TJ with a slushbox. And I spend most of my time in urban and dense-suburban areas with lots of traffic, AND I tow at the vehicle's rated towing capacity on a regular basis. Seriously thinking about swapping the TJ's slushbox out for a stick, despite the cost/aggrivation/downtime...

Z O O R O P A

01-07-2007, 08:52 PM

yeah I grew up on stick myself but it gets old in stop n go traffic. Besides, there are "somethings" much easier to do in a car with an auto that just make it all the more worth while :exclaim:

RunninRubicon

01-08-2007, 03:24 AM

I can remember the days when I first learned to love a stick-shift. Then came kids and a mini-van. Now, I love slingin a stick again. I live in a city of a million people. I don't mind shifting gears. It reminds me why I made the decision to buy my third Wrangler. Shifting reminds me of what I CAN do and the rest just wish for. With the 4.0 I-6 I can lug around town at 800rpm and still have enough punch to catch the light. Never underestimate what a 64:1 ratio can do for you. Ya just gotta love a 4:1 transfer case-gears are your friend. Selectable lockers & a operators manual with explicit instructions-with pictures for the thicker brows, both covered with a long running factory warranty is just golden! "Da! Ya break it - THEY fix it." Life doesn't get much sweeter. It doesn't take long after bending a wrench or two, to realize early on! Parts ain't cheap! Gettin someone ELSE to pay for them-Candy to this baby-thank you extended warranty!
This auto vs stick debate has and will go on for as long as the two trannys are built. I say learn to use what you brought to the table and be happy for the guy who has, because both will get you where you want to go and that's why we drive Jeeps in the first place .....at least that's my 2 cents.:ylsmoke:

thejafe

01-08-2007, 03:32 PM

I factory ordered my TJ with all the options that I felt were necessary for my base vehicle. I started with a SPORT, not a Rubicon and it came out to just over $24k.

It would have been nice to have the D44's front and rear + the 4:1 transfer case of the Rubicon but I wanted to keep initial costs down. So far I've been just fine on the trails with a D44 rear only. I don't see myself upgrading my front axle to a D44 anytime soon.

In the future I may add an ARB locker, but that won't be until after I regear from 3.73 to 4.11.

Basically, I chose to build my rig to my own specifications, rather than purchase the Rubicon package. There's no right or wrong way to do it, but there certainly are arguments for both purchasing the Rubicon package and for building from the ground up.

SeaRubi

01-09-2007, 04:37 PM

I have one of the afore-mentioned 2006 unlimited rubicons, mine with the 6 speed. Thus far it has been a great vehicle. The new 2007 unlimiteds are too large a vehicle for my needs, but the extra equipment can't be beat.

Many people fall into the trap of tallying up the premium and make a financial comparison based on armchair-mechanic estimates and don't fully take into account the length of time and expense required to install all of those aftermarket goodies. Underestimating my own wrenching skills and available time led me to sell my prior vehicle and go with the Jeep Rubicon. Nowadays I find the little bit of free time I do have is spent adventuring and not stressing over what needs to be done to my vehicle next.

fwiw

Scott Brady

01-09-2007, 04:44 PM

Welcome SeaRubi! :smiley_drive:

SeaRubi

01-09-2007, 05:00 PM

thanks Scott! :ylsmoke: I'll check in over in general, too. 'felt compelled to respond to this thread here ;)

Wanderlusty

01-10-2007, 08:49 PM

You know, what sucks about this whole thought process...

The more I think about actually moving up to a JK Unlimited, the more I think about that to afford that, I would most likely have to get rid of the TJ...

And...this is the thing....I DON'T WANT to get rid of the TJ. Even with the inconvenience of slinging the kiddo in the back....

Every time I think about having to get rid of the TJ, it kinda makes me sad.

So where does that leave me? I don't know.

cshontz

01-10-2007, 08:54 PM

So where does that leave me? I don't know.

Do it, David. It'll only sting as long as it takes you to get to the dealer. The below picture is not of me, nor is it of my Jeep. :(

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/18/70892898_2b116b417a.jpg

Wanderlusty

01-10-2007, 09:02 PM

Do it, David. It'll only sting as long as it takes you to get to the dealer. The below picture is not of me, nor is it of my Jeep. :(

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/18/70892898_2b116b417a.jpg

Seems like a mixed message there...."DO IT" and " :( "

I guess as much as I love the TJ, another motivator is that it is only a year and some change from being paid off. I hate starting the whole cycle over again.

Despite it's Dana 35 inferiority, it has never let me down, and it only has 40K on it. And....honestly.....as many things as there are that I DO like about the JK, there is a lot I DON'T like....whereas the TJ, save for the space issue, I have no quarrel with. Perhaps that is just due to familiarity, though.

Part of me is considering keeping the TJ and picking up a car or something for the daily grind that is more kiddo friendly. Something cheap I can pay off in 2-3 years vs. 5.

BajaTaco

01-10-2007, 09:26 PM

I didn't read through the entire thread yet...

but I voted "yes".

For me the bottom line would be that if I could afford the $ for the Rubicon pkg, I would not hesitate to get it. The added strength of the D44 front axle along with the F/R OEM lockers and cool t-case would make it very worth it for me. If I couldn't afford it though, then I couldn't afford it. Period. So I would either get the X and add the lockers when the budget permits, or save up for the Rubicon.

SeaRubi

01-10-2007, 09:51 PM

Up to 33" tires, I think the OEM solution is good. Over that and ... I'm not so sure.

Things I DON'T like about the OEM stuff:

* chain driven transfer case. The borg-warner in my rangie went "pop" and was a similar design. at roughly 3.3:1 ratio it wasn't far off from the NP241OR

* rear locker: seen lots of issues with the rear locker grenading. It's a torsen style limted slip in addition to being fully lockable. Sounds great but the long term i'm not so sure. i think the jury is out on long-term reliability of this unit.

* semi-float hubs. okay maybe it's a rover thing, but the thought of breaking a rear axle in the middle of nowhere and worrying about having the wheel stay on kind of freaks me out

* locker air-lines: i've already had one pop off inside the diff. the airline runs through the axle casing and connects internally, versus having the connection point on the outside of the diff-case like ARB. Left me stranded once in the snow, which brought the suck.

just a few anti-Rubi notes ... I think it's still worth it to me, but if I were building a trail rig / rock crawler, I'd have started with a nice TJ Sport and upgraded everything else, retaining the 4.0L engine.

ARB's and an Atlas II are definitely higher quality pieces of equipment. For me it was getting all that stuff installed and fronting the cost out of pocket that sent me down the Rubi path. I don't plan on hardcore rock crawling, and enjoy a nice mix of trails and overland type travel. 255/85's are the biggest tire I plan to put on mine, so I feel the stock axles will be more than sufficient after upgrading then to Superior or Alloy replacements.

For the fella with the TJ w/ 40k miles ... think about your down payment. What are your feelings on a trailer? What are your plans for the vehicle? can you get by with using a less expensive alternative in the diffs like truetrack limited slips, or maybe an aussie locker? That would be a hard choice to me... I was facing a drivetrain rebuild on the rangie when I bought mine so it made sense. If I had a reliable vehicle to begin with, the pull wouldn't have been nearly as strong.

fwiw

I didn't read through the entire thread yet...

but I voted "yes".

For me the bottom line would be that if I could afford the $ for the Rubicon pkg, I would not hesitate to get it. The added strength of the D44 front axle along with the F/R OEM lockers and cool t-case would make it very worth it for me. If I couldn't afford it though, then I couldn't afford it. Period. So I would either get the X and add the lockers when the budget permits, or save up for the Rubicon.

Wanderlusty

01-11-2007, 04:08 PM

Up to 33" tires, I think the OEM solution is good. Over that and ... I'm not so sure.

That’s my current setup…

For the fella with the TJ w/ 40k miles ... think about your down payment. What are your feelings on a trailer?

Mixed. I like the idea in general, but there are some cons.

1. Tugging a trailer over trails with the D35 just about precludes a busted axle soon.
2. Trailers like the Adventure Trailers are not exactly cheap…
3. ….especially if you add the cost of a new axle to the mix.
4. Not sure how crazy I am about tugging a trailer down (or up?) certain types of trails. Guess it could always be left at a basecamp if it was really tough stuff, but generally, I like taking trails that GET me places. I may be wrong here, but I feel like I would be limited.
5. Generally not so sure about the extra effort driving a trailer requires.

What are your plans for the vehicle? can you get by with using a less expensive alternative in the diffs like truetrack limited slips, or maybe an aussie locker?

Not on the TJ. Anything axle wise would basically preclude getting a new one. I am not going to ‘build’ the D35.

Would like to find a D44 and build it.

Or suck it up and get the JK.

That would be a hard choice to me... I was facing a drivetrain rebuild on the rangie when I bought mine so it made sense. If I had a reliable vehicle to begin with, the pull wouldn't have been nearly as strong.

fwiw

Yep.

RunninRubicon

01-13-2007, 08:47 PM

I have read concern after concern and worry after worry about NP transfer cases chain vs gear. I have never seen or heard of a chain slippin off a tooth on a properly serviced case. Worn sure. These things are built to handle over 1100lbs or torgue - tuff stuff. Certainly NOT the weakest link. Same can be said about the axle-shafts. If you have doubt about your rigs abilities - carry a spare. Better yet evenly match your tire size to the axle. We've read what to run with what a million times. Loosing hoses - certainly heard more issue from ARB owners then Rubi owner. (my club has 26 rubis in it). As for pulling off-road trailers. I pull on that's about 1000lbs over everything I point it at-never an issue. I do drive differently with a trailer then w/o-dah!
Are they worth it- Did an 88 YJ the hard way piece by piece-spent over $30K to get what I have in my used 2003 Rubicon that cost $17500 w/a 4" Fabtech, aftermarket bumpers, wheels/33" Goodyears and rock-rails. They weigh more then an "X" and have no more power so performance can be an issue. So do as I did and implant a Kenne Bell Blower and let er rock!:Mechanic:

Wanderlusty

01-29-2007, 02:41 PM

Well, I thought I had decided on just keeping the TJ....but a weekends worth of contemplation and I am leaning back towards a JK Rubi again.....

It's not that I am indecisive...ok, maybe it is....

I think the reality is if I started really upgrading the TJ....that is a lot of $$$ that could go towards a JK....

AND....

That doesn't really solve the real issue....lack of space. And with one kid here and thoughts of trying again for number two probably after our fall trip....I know that I need more space...period....

I hate thinking of parting ways with a TJ that I otherwise have no quarrel with...and DEFINITELY hate the thought of MORE payments, but I have to be realistic about the NEEDS as well as the WANTS. (NEED more space...WANT a Rubi while I am at it...)

I still have a while to decide....and still seeing how the DIESEL thing goes, too....but at least for THIS week...I am back to considering the JK-U Rubi...again....for now....

SeaRubi

01-29-2007, 04:52 PM

Wanderlusty

01-29-2007, 05:26 PM

just ... do ... it :coffeedrink:

think about how happy you'll be DRIVING the damned thing and not figuring out how to spend every free 10 minute block wrenching on that TJ with a new child ...

me thinks a JK is in your future ;)

Me thinks you are probably right. Heck, I see they even have some pretty cool looking Mopar steel bumpers and a steel skid to protect the swaybar disco and steering, and a 9500 lb Warn that can be dealer optioned. Heck, a Rubi with that, what they call the "Off-Road" package....and really, lift and tires is just about all there is left.

Not to say that it would ever really be "done" even so....

SeaRubi

01-29-2007, 05:55 PM

Me thinks you are probably right. Heck, I see they even have some pretty cool looking Mopar steel bumpers and a steel skid to protect the swaybar disco and steering, and a 9500 lb Warn that can be dealer optioned. Heck, a Rubi with that, what they call the "Off-Road" package....and really, lift and tires is just about all there is left.

Not to say that it would ever really be "done" even so....

shoot -screw the lift 'n tires. it comes with 32's, which really is plenty to get into trouble once in awhile, and wholly adequate for exploring back country. that's how i've been using mine on 1" less tire.

looking for trouble on a night run:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~thefains/img/roverPics/misc/night_run.jpg

easy summertime wheelin' and camping:
http://www.speakeasy.org/~thefains/img/jeep/summertime_jeep.jpg

Wanderlusty

01-29-2007, 06:03 PM

shoot -screw the lift 'n tires. it comes with 32's, which really is plenty to get into trouble once in awhile, and wholly adequate for exploring back country. that's how i've been using mine on 1" less tire.

Dunno....I have just been so spoiled by my lift....I think I would miss it. I know that I cruise right over what my friends in a 04 Rubi and 03 TJ (both with no lift and 31's) drag on.

And that doesn't even take into account the 2 foot longer wheel base of the JK-U compared to my ShorT-J...losing a lot of breakover....

I know that it wouldn't be an urgent issue....but would probably end up lifted anyhow. Besides, I just like the look, too ;)

durango_60

01-29-2007, 10:28 PM

I was just playing on the Jeep site and noticed that both the Sahara and the X now have an option for a rear locker. It currently has a price of $0 but I'm sure that will change. If I could pick up an X with a locker for MSRP of ~23k it may be worth it instead of getting a Ruby for 29k.

This looks to confirm it... http://arifleet.com/production.html

goodtimes

01-30-2007, 01:46 AM

SeaRubi

01-30-2007, 04:55 AM

Wanderlusty

01-30-2007, 01:34 PM

Equipping a non-rubi with a rear locker....hmmm....

Kinda sheds a new perspective on my poll.

The more of this kind of stuff they throw on non-Rubi's....the less of a deal the Rubi's become....

Not to say that it isn't still a great deal.

I guess I will just have to see what the offerings are when I am ready to buy.

goodtimes

01-31-2007, 01:55 AM

The more of this kind of stuff they throw on non-Rubi's....the less of a deal the Rubi's become....

But it will come with a price ($$$). Once you add up the options (locker, d44 rear axle, rear disk brakes, etc), you start approaching the price of the rubicon that already has all that.

I do think it will be a popular option though...there are a lot of people who really don't need the 4:1 t'case gears or even the front locker....

good on 'em (DC).

Wanderlusty

01-31-2007, 01:31 PM

But it will come with a price ($$$). Once you add up the options (locker, d44 rear axle, rear disk brakes, etc), you start approaching the price of the rubicon that already has all that.

I do think it will be a popular option though...there are a lot of people who really don't need the 4:1 t'case gears or even the front locker....

good on 'em (DC).

The Unlimiteds are now all coming standard with D44 rear. In fact, I think that only the lowest trim level in the 2 door SWB gets a D35.

This (rear lockers) if it is indeed legit....will be something for me to consider. I fall under the category of someone who probably doesn't need 4:1...though I would not regret it if I had it...

Still, there is just something about a Rubi....;)

goodtimes

01-31-2007, 02:51 PM

The Unlimiteds are now all coming standard with D44 rear. In fact, I think that only the lowest trim level in the 2 door SWB gets a D35.

This (rear lockers) if it is indeed legit....will be something for me to consider. I fall under the category of someone who probably doesn't need 4:1...though I would not regret it if I had it...

Still, there is just something about a Rubi....;)

One thing to remember with the 4:1...low range is really low. There is very little overlap between hi range and low range. In 4-low/4th gear, I have the same final drive ratio as 4-hi/1st gear. On alot of trails I find myself going between hi and lo range alot due to the lack of overlap. The 4:1 is great on techincal stuff, but on easier trails I end up running in hi range until I get to a more difficult obstacle, shift to low range, and then back to hi as soon as I get through the obstacle. Kind of a pain sometimes. 2.73:1 low range has its place....

Wanderlusty

01-31-2007, 03:14 PM

It is rare I even use 4-Lo...but there are a lot of trails I have backed away from due to being by myself or not having recovery gear, too...sooo.....

durango_60

01-31-2007, 04:04 PM

One thing to remember with the 4:1...low range is really low. There is very little overlap between hi range and low range. In 4-low/4th gear, I have the same final drive ratio as 4-hi/1st gear. On alot of trails I find myself going between hi and lo range alot due to the lack of overlap. The 4:1 is great on techincal stuff, but on easier trails I end up running in hi range until I get to a more difficult obstacle, shift to low range, and then back to hi as soon as I get through the obstacle. Kind of a pain sometimes. 2.73:1 low range has its place....

So are you suggesting that a JKU w/ D44, rear locker, 2.73:1 case, 4.10's, 2" lift and 33's might be a better solution for the type of wheeling most folks on this site pursue? I imagine with a rig like that you could handle the same terrain the folks with expedition built Tacos or Cruisers will be tackling.

goodtimes

01-31-2007, 05:24 PM

SeaRubi

01-31-2007, 05:39 PM

So are you suggesting that a JKU w/ D44, rear locker, 2.73:1 case, 4.10's, 2" lift and 33's might be a better solution for the type of wheeling most folks on this site pursue? I imagine with a rig like that you could handle the same terrain the folks with expedition built Tacos or Cruisers will be tackling.

i'd say less expensive, not really better. in 4-hi, 1st gear still yields 18:1 with 4.10's in the differentials. With the Rubi's limited slip, there's a fair amount of terrain I can tackle in 4-hi with true 3 wheel drive. With a Sahara packed with a rear detroit, it's be about the same for most "overland" type trips. I don't think you'd really miss the extra equipment of the Rubi.

Assuming both rigs have 4.10 diffs and the GS370 6-speed, here's the final drive ratio for 4-hi, and then lo-range for the NP231 (standard) and NP241OR (rubicon).

4-hi | NP231 | NP241OR
trans | 2.72 | 4:1
====================================
1st | 4.46 | 18.286 | 49.74 | 73.14
2nd | 2.61 | 10.701 | 29.11 | 42.80
3rd | 1.72 | 7.052 | 19.18 | 28.21
4th | 1.25 | 5.125 | 13.94 | 20.50
5th | 1 | 4.1 | 11.15 | 16.40
6th | 0.84 | 3.444 | 9.37 | 13.78
R | 4.06 | 16.646 | 45.28 | 66.58

Based off these numbers, I can see that the majority of trails I've been where the 2.72 lo-range wouldn't really be a liability, because it is rare that I drop into 1st gear. I'm usually in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th and then will shift over to 6th for basically double-tracks in the dirt, and back to hi-range on gravel roads.

Where the deeper 1st gear comes in handy is in rock crawling, where the extra control and slower speed of 73:1 is a real asset over the "bump and throttle" technique in tackling obstacles.

edit: more nerd stuff: if you take out 1st gear of the rubi and just compare it with 2nd gear and on, you can see that 2nd-6th is nearly identical in final drive ratio to 1st-5th of the NP231's 2.72:1 lo-range.

231 241OR
==========
49 42
29 28
19 20
11 16
9 14

Wanderlusty

01-31-2007, 06:38 PM

Here is something I found out there surfin'

http://www.brettandjillianwoods.com/jeep%20stuff/index.htm

in this thread:

http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=1485

durango_60

01-31-2007, 09:28 PM

Well I got tired of riding this fence and just ordered a new Rubicon Unlimited 6 speed.:wings:

Guess I better start making some Jeep friends cause my yota buds are surely gonna disown me:shakin:

SeaRubi

01-31-2007, 09:47 PM

Well I got tired of riding this fence and just ordered a new Rubicon Unlimited 6 speed.:wings:

Guess I better start making some Jeep friends cause my yota buds are surely gonna disown me:shakin:

nice!! my rover friends took the news of my conversion to Jeep land pretty hard - but they got over it :)

Wanderlusty

02-02-2007, 07:21 PM

I see now that not only is a locker in the rear available on non-Rubi's, but you can also add the Swaybar disco....from the factory. I knew you could order the part, but now you can order it factory installed.

So....I know that the swaybar disco is a $675 option, the rear locker says $0...but doubt that is true.

But say it runs about the same as the swaybar disco, you are talking $1200...then all you lack vs the Rubi is front locker and 4:1 case. Hmm...

Just more food for thought for an already overstuffed mind....

cshontz

02-02-2007, 08:29 PM

For technical 4:1 is pure gold, but 2.72:1 is well-suited for overlanding. It'd be nice if you could have your cake and eat it too. I think I'd still opt for the Rubicon, but these features as options on other models certainly narrows the margin. I think you'd be exceedingly happy with either.

Enough talk. Your next post must include a pic of your new Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited. ;)

Wanderlusty

02-02-2007, 08:54 PM

Enough talk. Your next post must include a pic of your new Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited. ;)

HA!

That would be nice....

But nope, not gonna pull the trigger on this until at LEAST '08 model year. Seeing a lot of bugs still being worked out....also not willing to pay the premium most have to pay right now.

I did stop by the dealer the other day.

Me: I will be getting one, but it will be '08 at least before I do. I don't buy first year models.

Salesman: What it would take to get me in an '07?

Me: It would have to be one HECK of a deal...

Salesman: I will give you $500 off sticker....

Me: I said....it would take a heck of a deal....

Salesman: Ok, well thanks for looking....

Seriously, $500 off sticker? I understand it is a new vehicle, and am willing to wait. But I told him one heck of a deal, and that is the best he could throw at me? I am hearing lots of stories of folks getting them for near invoice. Through my employer, I can get it for $300 over invoice. And that is before any haggling at all.

Last vehicle I bought, I drove to Texas to get.

I don't really think that a lot of these dealers have a clue that...especially when it comes to Jeeps....people know what they are looking for and know what others are paying. I am all about supporting hometown biz. But jerk me around....you are just wasting my time....

I will drive a little to save a lot. Heck, I will drive a lot to save a lot. I don't think a lot of salesmen understand the amount of information the consumers have at their disposal these days.

Anyway....I predict one day you WILL see me posting pics of my new JK...just no time soon.

86cj

02-02-2007, 10:31 PM

I absolutely would have ordered my LJ sport with only the locking 44's from the Rubi if available. The swaybar disco is icing on the cake...
.......Decisions for the FATMAN...........

When you are comparing ratios so mathematically......Remember it is best not to load your transmmision in it's higher gears to heavily. The higher cogs can't take the bigger loads of the low range gearing when you do find traction......

Get the low range that works for your type of wheelin', it doesn't matter which decal is on the hood..........

Z O O R O P A

02-03-2007, 08:29 PM

I can get a Rubi for 27K through a friend - I am still going to wait until the end of the summer

lol Fat Man that is funny, you must have laughed pretty hard - I bought my Volvo C70 which retailed for 44500$ I got for 36 flat first year model - been a peach :)

They are having a lot of bugs so be sure to get Xtd-warrnty I think it is 1200$ for 100k, that is what I was quoted

stjjames

02-04-2007, 01:56 PM

Unless your playing in the rocks Ive found the 4:1 to be abit low for general trail riding. You may have stated your desired terrain, but this is an expedition forum so Im guessing its not straight rockcrawling.
The new unlimited is pretty sweet. I would try to pick up a rubi & prolly swap transfercases.

RunninRubicon

02-04-2007, 05:06 PM

I might as well join the fray...I ran a GM 700R-4 w/reversed corvette valve-body. electric overdrive, raptor clutch pack..very hardy. I followed Advanced adapters recommendations in preparation to install behind my 4.2 in an 88' YJ that I bored .40 over, installed a H264 Crower cam, 4.0L head that I lightly ported and polished and matched the exhaust to Borla S/S headers and to the intake of a MOPAR EFI kit manifold. (230hp or so). I ran 33" BFG MTs w/ Detroit lockers on 4.56 gears. RE 4 1/2 leaf springs....tuff and ready rig. I was climbing behind the COKE ovens in Cochran, Az. and split my tranny case in the middle of now where.
Point two-Got sagebrush between the belly-pan and the body and of-course it caught on fire from the catalytic converter and burnt down...melted the oil-cooler lines and was nearly unextinguishable (water canteen, 2 fire extinguishers and one passer-bys-completly out by the fire department.). Point here is cooler lines can be an issue in various ways.
They require more oil...more expense to maintain.
They heat the oil very warmly (just plan hot) here in Tucson. Necessitates
synthetic oil here. Did I say more money?
They weigh more then a typical manual stick.
Typically get poorer gas mileage
Some will speak to longevity, and my answer it take your foot off the clutch-pedal!! People usally get just as many miles out of one as they do the other. and last but certainly not least is manuals give me something to do besides talk on the cell-phone!:hehe: