Mounting Thule tracks on shell... ISO advice

[asteffes]

Hi, folks. I recently ordered Thule tracks for my SnugTop shell. The kit includes spanner nuts, but since my shell is fiberglass I'm planning to use bolts. Of course, I'll use lots of silicone caulking to seal the holes. I'm also planning to beef up the inside of the shell with some sheetmetal to provide more back-up material than washers alone would provide.

I'm not looking to carry lots of weight, but the items I would consider carrying (bicycles, skis or a cargo box) would probably generate significant aerodynamic drag. I certainly don't want the shell to crack, so I'm hoping my idea of backing up the tracks is a sound one.

I would appreciate any advice from folks here who have installed these tracks on a fiberglass shell.

[p1michaud]

...I'll use lots of silicone caulking to seal the holes. I'm also planning to beef up the inside of the shell with some sheetmetal to provide more back-up material than washers alone would provide...
-Adam

Adam, I've installed a THULE system on my shell and here are a few pics and advice. I know BajaTaco and mountainpete should be able to chime in with a few tips for you as well.

Roof rack on shell:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/p1michaud/Tacoma/Camper-RoofRack/DSC02494.jpg

With the Bikes loaded on:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/p1michaud/Tacoma/Camper-RoofRack/DSC02496.jpg

Tips:
1-Make sure you use the small plastic washers between the rails and the shell (they should have come with the hardware to install the rails). Use tons of silicone because it's easier to wipe off a bit of excess as it squeezes out than having to remove the complete rack and re-install it if you have a leak.

2-If you have a liner in your shell make sure to use the smaller drill bit (1/8")for the pilot holes then the larger drill bit (7/32"). You also want to make sure your drill nice and slow with someone inside watching to make sure the liner does not get bunched up on the drill bit and start tearing/separating from the fiberglass.

3-Using larger washers inside the shell (i.e. 1" in diamter) should be more than sufficient to spread and support the load. Remember that most shells are only rated for ~200 to 250 lbs.

4-Take your time to lay out your rack on the shell so it's straight. I used some masking tape to hold it in place then measure it to ensure it was properly ligned up. Don't want to be drilling holes in the wrong place. :eek:

Good luck and show us some pics when you are done. :D
Cheers :beer:,
P

[Nullifier]

I have installed countless tracks into topper since selling racks is a big part of our sales in the shop. Just use a large fender washer on the inside you'll be fine.

As was mentioned the most time is spent getting the tracks parallel. I recomend however lining them up so that the tracks will be outbaord of the foam core section of the toppers roof. If you go through the foam core you will need to get longer bolts, but the foam can compress under stress and then it will be loose. I would also use a self locking nut in the insed with a plastic cap to make it smooth.

In reguards to using alot of silicone. less is more. a small amount around the bolt holes is all you need. if you use alot it will squish out and have to be cleaned up. I would put the bolts in the tracka nd then silicone. If you get the silicone on the thread of the bolts ot will jam up the nut making hard to tighten and almost imposible to remove if you need to.

[mountainpete]

I think the guys covered it pretty well... take your time and plan it out before drilling. Plan out what you want to do and do it once.

The only varied opinion I would have is on silicone use. I personally like to have lots - especially if you have to drill through a honeycomb section of the roof. But I respect the fact that Nullifier has more experience than me and his advice is sound.

Here are a few pics of my system if you are interested. It's Yakima though...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/mountainpete/2003%20Tacoma%20DoubleCab%20TRD/IMG_0554.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/mountainpete/2003%20Tacoma%20DoubleCab%20TRD/IMG_0555.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/mountainpete/2003%20Tacoma%20DoubleCab%20TRD/IMG_0552.jpg

Thanks,

Pete

[Nullifier]

DID you know that the Thule and Yakima tracks are the same. They get them from the same extruder LOL!

[asteffes]

DID you know that the Thule and Yakima tracks are the same. They get them from the same extruder LOL!

That's hilarious. The Thule tracks are on backorder from my vendor. They offered me Yakima tracks for about the same price but I'm holding out for Thule tracks since I wanted to be sure the Thule towers would fit the tracks. Oh well!

[asteffes]

I think the guys covered it pretty well... take your time and plan it out before drilling. Plan out what you want to do and do it once.

The only varied opinion I would have is on silicone use. I personally like to have lots - especially if you have to drill through a honeycomb section of the roof. But I respect the fact that Nullifier has more experience than me and his advice is sound.
Pete

Thank you for the great reply, Pete! It's most helpful. I'm curious how far from the edge you mounted your tracks. I'm not sure where the honeycomb core starts and ends on my SnugTop SuperSport shell.

[mountainpete]

asteffes,

I don't remember how far from the edge I mounted the tracks, but I know it was about as close as I felt comfortable with considering the curve of the roof. You will need to take a look at your specific canopy to decide (sorry).

For the honeycomb, if you have the shell already, go inside and look at the roof. A honeycomb re-inforced roof has a thicker section of fiberglass and resin on the inside of the roof that is added during the mold process to give extra strenght and rigidity. If you have a honeycomb roof, you you will notice a bump where it starts.

On my roof, the honeycomb is a bit off centered (which doesn't really impact strength) so I had to drill holes through the honeycomb on one side and not the other. I personally would prefer to NOT drill any holes through the honeycomb because it can compress and crack, but I have talked to many rack experts that have drilled into them thousands of times without issues. Just don't overtighten any bolts you run through the honeycomb.

Here is another pic that shows some of the bolts and where the honeycomb starts on mine:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/mountainpete/2003%20Tacoma%20DoubleCab%20TRD/IMG_0556.jpg

Hope that helps.

Pete

[asteffes]

Yes, that's most helpful. I looked inside my SnugTop today and it looks like the reinforced section is nicely centered in the top. I have a solid four or five inches on each side of the reinforcement in which I can mount the tracks. I think this is going to work out very nicely.

[asteffes]

Today, I installed my Thule roof rack kit on my '06 Taco's SnugTop SuperSport shell. It was pretty straightforward. Aligning the tracks to be parallel took a lot of measuring, as the honeycomb reinforcement is not centered on my shell. I wanted to be sure the 0.25" bolts and 1.25" fender washers cleared the bulge of the honeycomb. It's sitting in the garage, waiting for the silicone to dry. Hopefully I get to use it later this week for a skiing "expedition" to Lake Tahoe. Anyone want to come along? :)

Pics are attached.

[Nullifier]

looks good. As you can see it is really simple just tedious. I just outfitted an F-250 crew with topper. We did tracks with yakima's control tower system and a q tower unit over the cab. He also got a front class 3 reciever and we put a 4 bike yakima hitch rack on the front. He tows a trailer around to state parks etc so bikes went on front instead of on top since his truck is so high.

[asteffes]

I installed the lights on the rack a couple days ago. They're quite bright (55 watts each Hella 500 driving beams) and are good for lighting up far down the road and higher than the headlamps reach.

[asteffes]

looks good. As you can see it is really simple just tedious. I just outfitted an F-250 crew with topper. We did tracks with yakima's control tower system and a q tower unit over the cab. He also got a front class 3 reciever and we put a 4 bike yakima hitch rack on the front. He tows a trailer around to state parks etc so bikes went on front instead of on top since his truck is so high.

I forgot to mention that with all the rain we've received in northern California, the rack was put to the ultimate leak test two nights ago. I drove from San Jose to Sacramento and back that day in torrential, end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it rain and the interior shell carpet was dry when I got home!

:victory: :coffee:

[p1michaud]

I installed the lights on the rack a couple days ago. They're quite bright (55 watts each Hella 500 driving beams) and are good for lighting up far down the road and higher than the headlamps reach.

I like the driving lights. I've been meaning to install a set for quite some time now. Looks great. Will you leave your roof rack on all the time?
Cheers,
P

[Willman]

Nice Rack my friend!!!

:hehe:

I need to do the same!!!!

I'm thinking of building a custom rack for a Rooftop tent with some lights....Thinking that i am going to have to add some supports to beefup the shell.....

:REExeSquatsHL1:

[asteffes]

Not to rain on my own parade but I've received very little value from all the work and money that went into the roof rack for the shell. I've since sold the ski carriers and stow the skis in the back when I go to Tahoe. They stay free of road grime, and I don't have to deal with a ski rack anymore. I took the lights off because they looked silly after awhile, and it turns out Hella 500 driving beams suck, anyway. I have a Load Warrior that I bought from Mlachia, which I've used a grand total of one time. I'm very close to selling the cross bars, Load Warrior and whatever other roof rack stuff I have laying around.

[robert]

I've got the Yakimas on my topper. If you carry boats they are pretty much mandatory. I also have a bicycle carrier so I don't have to put a muddy bike in the back and I can still sleep back there. I have a Space Booster box I bought to use with the VW but I think I've only used it once- luckily I bought it used for a decent price.

Hella 500s suck- I had them on the front of my FJ40 and wasn't impressed. They'd be even worse up that high although you see a lot of trucks with them up there. Get a set of Hella 4000s and mount them on the bumper- much better.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j16/bajatacoma/IMGP1707-1.jpg

[DaveInDenver]

Not to rain on my own parade but I've received very little value from all the work and money that went into the roof rack for the shell. I've since sold the ski carriers and stow the skis in the back when I go to Tahoe. They stay free of road grime, and I don't have to deal with a ski rack anymore. I took the lights off because they looked silly after awhile, and it turns out Hella 500 driving beams suck, anyway. I have a Load Warrior that I bought from Mlachia, which I've used a grand total of one time. I'm very close to selling the cross bars, Load Warrior and whatever other roof rack stuff I have laying around.
I'm sorry to hear that, you put a lot of work into it. I have and use ski carriers, but with a pickup there is no reason not to put them in the back. One thing people many times don't think about is the deicer spraying on your skis will eventually ruin the edges and bindings, so keeping them out of the weather as much as possible is best. But in a SUV with 4 people sometimes there is no where else to put them other than the top. While I would be lost without my roof racks, that is not the case with everyone. A hitch mount bike rack is more convenient, for example, and roof racks reduce your mileage and increase wind noise. But I wouldn't sell the towers and crossbars, sometimes a roof rack is indispensible. Even though my truck can only carry 2 people, in max outfit I can carry 5 bikes and that turns out to be very useful if you drive in support of a bike tour (we occasionally volunteer as vehicle support for MS150 and stuff). Or if you need to get a load of 10' long material, putting it on the roof can be handy rather than letting it hang out the back.

[TeleScooby]

Sorry you feel that way already, I had the same set up on my tacoma and used it almost daily...but then I was doing light carpentry, so I had wood up there next to the Yakima box that housed alot of my tools (safer then in the shell with my dog) as well as my skis. Combine that with the fact that I had a box built in the bed that cut usable cargo hauling space, a dog who lived in the bed of the truck every day, and had STUFF to haul, I guess that rack really was indespensible for me...



Anyway, enough rambling for now, I would keep the towers and bars for awhile, just to be sure you aren't going to want them down the line...

[asteffes]

I'll definitely keep the bars and towers for those times when I need to move a ladder or other long object. I also have an antenna mount that fits the Thule bars perfectly, and use that when I need to erect the dual-bander antenna. I just don't see myself using the basket or other attachments. It's not a big deal, really, I don't feel bad about the work I did. It's probably one of those things that I'll be glad I have when the right situation requires them.

[Howard70]

A couple of posts here have correctly mentioned that it is best to avoid the cored sections of a shell when mounting rails. However, if you need to mount through the cored section and want to maintain strength you might try a trick that we used frequently when mounting hardware and winches to the cored deck of a sailboat:

1. Drill a hole just large enough for your mounting hardware.

2. Bend a finishing nail with a 90 degree bend, the short side should be about 1/4 inch or so.

3. Mount the bent nail in your hand drill with the long leg in the chuck.

4. Carefully insert the short exposed leg into the hole drilled in #1 and keep the the hand drill straight (axis parallel with the hole). Spin the drill motor slowly and let the short leg knock out the cored material for a 1/4 around the hole.

5. You'll have two narrow holes through the fiberglass and a larger hole through the cored material. Blow out all the loose core material and place a piece of tape over the lower hole in the fiberglass, leaving the upper hole open.

6. Mix some epoxy and inject it into the top hole, filling the space created in the cored material. Wipe off any excess at the top hole leaving a good smooth surface on the fiberglass.

7. After the epoxy sets, re drill the mounting hole for the hardware through the epoxy. Don't worry if your exit hole (bottom hole) is SLIGHTLY misaligned from the original - the epoxy seals all that up.

8. You now have an epoxy "compression" ring around your mounting hole. Tightening the hardware won't compress the set epoxy and your mount is extremely strong.

9. If you want, it is possible to insert a threaded insert into the epoxy before it sets. Plug the threaded insert well to keep epoxy out of the threads and you'll have a clean "nutless" mount to screw mounting bolts into. This is only useful if the mount is something you'll remove often, otherwise just go through step 8.

While this probably seems time consuming, it goes real quick, especially with a lot of holes. Drill them all, then use the nail on all of them, tape them all, inject epoxy in all of them, and drill them again.

An added benefit is that your core material remains permanently sealed from water which can cause delamination over time.

Howard L. Snell

[RoundOut]

That is an awesome trick, Howard! I'll use that some day, for sure.
:coffeedrink:

[Nullifier]

I have done the type of repair work you mentioned on some boat hulls, but doubt I would attack a topper reinforcement like that. It seems like alot of work to take the topper off the truck and flip it upside down just to roll it over and remount it again.

I would probably just laminate a few layers of material to the area I was going to drill maybe some 6"x6" pieces This way I could work with the topper on the truck, and not compromise the core material at all.

[Howard70]

I wouldn't remove the shell to make the compression ring (and I haven't had to when I've done this previously).

I probably miscommunicated in the previous description - here's what I should have added:

Leave the shell on the truck. Drill the mounting holes from the top outside of the shell through the cored top to the inside of the shell. Use the bent finishing nail from the top outside. Blow the cored material out from the top outside into the shell (into the pickup bed). Place the tape over the inside bottom hole. Inject the epoxy from the top outside - it is contained until it sets by the tape. Redrill the mounting hole from the top outside.

If you're working on a vertical surface (perhaps the side of the shell if you have any cored material on the sides) do everything the same except mix your epoxy with slightly more hardener or use a filler powder to thicken the epoxy to peanut butter consistency. Pack the space left by the removed core material full and then place a 2nd piece of tape over the outside hole to prevent the thickened epoxy from slumping out of the outside hole.

I agree that laminating additional layers of fiberglass could also work by stiffening the material on both sides of the core. Whatever works best for someone is what they ought to do. I use a lot of epoxy for all sorts of stuff so that's an easy way for me to go.

Howard L. Snell