Hard tail or Soft tail Mountain Bike?

[jammyauto]

I'm in the market for a mountain bike and was hoping for some advise from the seasoned single track riders here. I currenty ride a carbonfiber cannondale road bike and have an aluminium commuter bike. Between riding to work and riding the road bike I ride about 80 miles a week. I'd like to ride more.

I want a bike for long rides, not a downhill bike. THe bike has to be light as possible. I'm leaning towards a carbonfiber hardtail bike. Is there any reason I should consider something else?

[korisu56]

I ride a hard tail and my riding buddy rides a soft tail. The second I can quit building my CJ for expo I will be buying a soft tail. You can adjust riding stiffness of a softail for comfort. You're gonna feel everything on that hard tail.

My 0.02. Good luck.

[EMrider]

I'm in the market for a mountain bike and was hoping for some advise from the seasoned single track riders here. I currenty ride a carbonfiber cannondale road bike and have an aluminium commuter bike. Between riding to work and riding the road bike I ride about 80 miles a week. I'd like to ride more.

I want a bike for long rides, not a downhill bike. THe bike has to be light as possible. I'm leaning towards a carbonfiber hardtail bike. Is there any reason I should consider something else?

As I'm sure you know, it all comes down to how and where you intend to ride the MTB. People happily rode hardtail MTBs for 15+ years so there is no necessity in going full suspension. A hardtail can do pretty much anything. But no question a full suspension bike is more comfortable to ride and easier to control on many MTB trails. I ride around Santa Barbara pretty often and would choose full suspension any day for the stuff up there. Lots of steep and chunky stuff where full suspension really shines. Not a lot of long and flowy XC riding unless you get way into the backcountry. IMHO, the front range MTB trails around SB are among the best anywhere. If you intend to ride on the street as well as on the trail, then a hardtail probably makes more sense. Bike mag latest issue has an excellent series of reviews on all types of bikes, including best value choices. With current technology, you don't have to spend a lot to get a lot of performance. Good luck.
R

[trailsurfer]

I'm in the market for a mountain bike and was hoping for some advise from the seasoned single track riders here. I currenty ride a carbonfiber cannondale road bike and have an aluminium commuter bike. Between riding to work and riding the road bike I ride about 80 miles a week. I'd like to ride more.

I want a bike for long rides, not a downhill bike. THe bike has to be light as possible. I'm leaning towards a carbonfiber hardtail bike. Is there any reason I should consider something else?

I would get a Titanium 29er Hard tail. If you want light, durable, and a great ride, you can't beat Titanium. And with the 29er wheel, it is like having 3 inches of travel. I would look at Titus, they have a couple of new designs this year, and they have gotten great reviews.

[jammyauto]

Thanks guys. Sounds like I need to reconsider my options. I was mosty just thinking that a full suspension bike would be alot tougher on the uphills. When I'm in Santa Barbara I'm pretty happy on the road bike. I've got lots of riding buddies and theres group rides like 4 days a week. THat's not to say that I would not ride a mountain bike here though. When I really want a mountain bike is when I travel in my SMB. Mountain biking is available in the remote places I like to camp at. The roadbike is not so good on washboard.

[Bike_Mech]

Thanks guys. Sounds like I need to reconsider my options. I was mosty just thinking that a full suspension bike would be alot tougher on the uphills. When I'm in Santa Barbara I'm pretty happy on the road bike. I've got lots of riding buddies and theres group rides like 4 days a week. THat's not to say that I would not ride a mountain bike here though. When I really want a mountain bike is when I travel in my SMB. Mountain biking is available in the remote places I like to camp at. The roadbike is not so good on washboard.

One of my favorite mtb rides is Little Pine looped back around to Camusea just over old san marcos pass. I rode hardtails, ti and aluminum, when I lived in Goleta and rode those trails, but it was also the time I made the switch to FS bikes for 80% of my mtb riding. How's Gibraltar these days? I used to love that road ride. That and the lake loop around Lake Casitas. Lots of great riding around there!

[jammyauto]

I love riding Gibraltar. I just rode it yesterday morning. All the way up I get passed by pichups full of downhillers. I like climbing on the roadbike but I think coming down off road would be a blast. I have never done it. Can't wait to get a mountain bike.

[EMrider]

Thanks guys. Sounds like I need to reconsider my options. I was mosty just thinking that a full suspension bike would be alot tougher on the uphills. When I'm in Santa Barbara I'm pretty happy on the road bike. I've got lots of riding buddies and theres group rides like 4 days a week. THat's not to say that I would not ride a mountain bike here though. When I really want a mountain bike is when I travel in my SMB. Mountain biking is available in the remote places I like to camp at. The roadbike is not so good on washboard.

Yep, a hardtail probably climbs best. But most FS bikes these days can be adjusted to help when climbing. Just stiffen up the suspension a bit and climb away. Then reset and enjoy the decline. I used to road ride a lot but now only ride the MTB. When on the road, I used to climb out of the saddle often. On the MTB, I never stand and mash. Always stay comfortably seated and just spin away.

I've considered trying to ride up Gibraltar and come down Tunnel when it reopens. Need to get in shape a bit more, but that would certainly be earning my fun after a climb like that.
R

[dustboy]

I'd say if you have the $$ buy a decent 4-5" XC full suspension. The technology is so good these days that the rear suspension stays mostly rigid under pedaling loads. When you are climbing rough technical trails, the suspension is actually helpful because it keeps the rear tire in contact. And, when you go downhill, it's way more fun.

Don't get too hung up on weight, most superlight bikes are not as much fun to ride as their heavier counterparts because they're too floppy. Having a slightly heavier bike that has the stiffness to put a tire where you want it will give you more confidence, I guarantee. This goes not just for the frame but all parts.

Material-wise, I have my prejudices. I wouldn't spend the big money on carbon fiber unless I was a hard-core racer. Aluminum is still king for full-boinger bikes, for the sake of rigidity. For a hardtail, steel is where it's at since it's more forgiving. I don't care much for titanium, I think it's just bling. Too many noodly bikes have been made from the stuff. I'd take a top-end steel frame over Ti, and suck up the small weight penalty.

[Flounder]

As stated above, this entirely depends on where you ride and how you ride. Like many, I started riding and racing on a hard tail in the mid 80's, but my full suspension riding first started in 1990. I have gone back and forth several times since and have owned fleets of both styles of bikes. For me, I'll only ride hard tails here on out, but I know how I like to ride and where I like to ride. My path has taken me to 29er hard tails and I've never been happier.

Regarding weight, do keep in mind that weight is only relative to the weight of the bike AND the rider and even then, only within the world of climbing. Climbing speed is the product of weight (bike+rider) vs. watts, so unless you don't have another couple pounds to lose, don't worry about a couple pounds on your bike. And as we all know now, rotational weight myths are now bunk, so as long as your bike is in "normal" weight ranges, that's all you need.

Regarding materials, the best way to spot an uninformed opinion is to look for people who generalize and say things like, "titanium is this and aluminum is that...." Materials are only what you make of them. You can get just about any material to do anything you want it to do. Keep in mind all frame builders are shooting for the same goal - lateral stiffness and vertical compliance. Just read through bike reviews and you hear the same mumbo-jumbo regarding those qualities regardless of the material. So, should you seek a carbon bike with stiffness and compliance, surely you can find it. Same for Scandium, aluminum, steel, ti and even the bamboo bikes I've ridden can be made to feel pretty slick.

Honestly, I'd just be careful soliciting advice on what to get. No one will know what you need more than you. Take a mental inventory of where you ride and how you ride and start there.

[trailsurfer]

I'd say if you have the $$ buy a decent 4-5" XC full suspension. The technology is so good these days that the rear suspension stays mostly rigid under pedaling loads. When you are climbing rough technical trails, the suspension is actually helpful because it keeps the rear tire in contact. And, when you go downhill, it's way more fun.

Don't get too hung up on weight, most superlight bikes are not as much fun to ride as their heavier counterparts because they're too floppy. Having a slightly heavier bike that has the stiffness to put a tire where you want it will give you more confidence, I guarantee. This goes not just for the frame but all parts.

Material-wise, I have my prejudices. I wouldn't spend the big money on carbon fiber unless I was a hard-core racer. Aluminum is still king for full-boinger bikes, for the sake of rigidity. For a hardtail, steel is where it's at since it's more forgiving. I don't care much for titanium, I think it's just bling. Too many noodly bikes have been made from the stuff. I'd take a top-end steel frame over Ti, and suck up the small weight penalty.


Totally disagree on Steel versus TI. I have both, and have had both. TI doesn't rust, absorbs bumps and washboard, it is just ideal for a hard tail as long as it is well made. It also works great for full suspension bikes as long as the rear triangle is made of aluminum or carbon. I ride thousands of miles of single track every year, and for my money you can't beat TI.

I don't care about the weight, I just prefer the ride over aluminum, carbon, and steel.

[jammyauto]

I've considered trying to ride up Gibraltar and come down Tunnel when it reopens. Need to get in shape a bit more, but that would certainly be earning my fun after a climb like that.
R
If I have a mountain bike when tunnel reopens I'd go with you. I live on montrose place right off tunnel rd. (We're bracing for the possibility of mudslides now with 4 to 5 days heavy rain the the forecast).

After what I've heard here I think I'll rethink my plan and start checking out some FS bikes. Sounds like aluminium might be the best "bang for the buck" so to speak.

[Flounder]

Totally disagree on Steel versus TI. I have both, and have had both. TI doesn't rust, absorbs bumps and washboard, it is just ideal for a hard tail as long as it is well made. It also works great for full suspension bikes as long as the rear triangle is made of aluminum or carbon. I ride thousands of miles of single track every year, and for my money you can't beat TI.

I don't care about the weight, I just prefer the ride over aluminum, carbon, and steel.I agree with you, Trailsurfer. Titanium is perfect for hard tails. It's hard to justify it for many road bike applications now, but for a hard tail it's prime.

I also agree with your opinion of 29er wheels feeling like they rival 3" of sprung travel. The dynamic nature of a 29er wheel is nothing short of amazing to me.

By the way, are you heading down for 24 Hours of Old Pueblo?!

[Flounder]

For a hardtail, steel is where it's at since it's more forgiving. I don't care much for titanium, I think it's just bling. Too many noodly bikes have been made from the stuff. I'd take a top-end steel frame over Ti, and suck up the small weight penalty.You fail to mention WHICH steel bikes and WHICH titanium bikes. Not all steel bikes are compliant and not all titanium bikes are noodly. In fact, I can't think of many Ti bikes at all that are overly flexy, and there have been more than a few steelies that have ridden like jackhammers. Anyone remember riding a Fisher Montare from the early 90s?? Ouch. Brutal.

[jammyauto]

Regarding weight, do keep in mind that weight is only relative to the weight of the bike AND the rider and even then, only within the world of climbing. Climbing speed is the product of weight (bike+rider) vs. watts, so unless you don't have another couple pounds to lose, don't worry about a couple pounds on your bike.
At 6ft and just a wee bit under 200lbs it would certainly be cheaper for me to cut back a little on the Ben&Jerry's than spend that extra$$ money for the last few pounds on a bike. You advice here is spot on but still I'm a sucker for nice stuff will probably buy a bike that is better than my ability. Yeah I'm a poser!




Honestly, I'd just be careful soliciting advice on what to get. No one will know what you need more than you. Take a mental inventory of where you ride and how you ride and start there.
I can appreciate this advice but the thing is I have'nt been riding any off road yet since I don't have a mountain bike yet. I could probaby start by borrowing some bikes though. That can be a little hard though.

I should have reaized this before starting this tread. I was kind of just under the assumtion that the FS bikes were mostly just for the downhill stuff. If it's not obvious by now I'm new to mountain biking and even though I ride my bikes all the time I really spend zero time reading about biking. The guys I ride with are only into road bikes period.

[trailsurfer]

I agree with you, Trailsurfer. Titanium is perfect for hard tails. It's hard to justify it for many road bike applications now, but for a hard tail it's prime.

I also agree with your opinion of 29er wheels feeling like they rival 3" of sprung travel. The dynamic nature of a 29er wheel is nothing short of amazing to me.

By the way, are you heading down for 24 Hours of Old Pueblo?!

I am going and I am racing (SLOWLY). I got 4 rides in this week, and hope to keep up 6-9 hours of riding per week between now and then. But winter time here in Durango does not make for the best training.

When are you heading down? I think I am going down late Wednesday or first thing Thursday morning.

[Flounder]

At 6ft and just a wee bit under 200lbs it would certainly be cheaper for me to cut back a little on the Ben&Jerry's than spend that extra$$ money for the last few pounds on a bike. You advice here is spot on but still I'm a sucker for nice stuff will probably buy a bike that is better than my ability. Yeah I'm a poser!

.
That's not being a poser. By all means, get a fancy schmancy bike! That's part of the fun of owning a bike. Just know that shopping by weight will not yield any performance gains and may even lead you to a bike with a tad less durability than you need. If you envision yourself hucking big jumps and launching into the blue, the last thing you want is a $7000 bike built for uber fast XC racing.

I'd suggest heading to your nearest bookstand and picking up the most recent BIKE magazine. Their new Bike Bible is out with little reviews of various bikes.

Lastly, there are some (including me) that are of the opinion that hard tails are actually great for building solid riding fundamentals. Even after 25 years of riding and racing on and off road, I think riding a hard tail today makes me a better rider and while I'm no hot shot, I've had more than a few guys on full suspension guys in front of me on sweet downhills clogging my "flow."

[Flounder]

I am going and I am racing (SLOWLY). I got 4 rides in this week, and hope to keep up 6-9 hours of riding per week between now and then. But winter time here in Durango does not make for the best training.

When are you heading down? I think I am going down late Wednesday or first thing Thursday morning.I had a major panic attack three weeks ago and started logging 14 hour weeks on the road bike to prepare. I'm freaked out because I'm about 4 weeks behind on my prep. What category are you in? I'm racing solo singlespeed. I think I'm heading down late on Thursday or very early on Friday. I want to grab a good spot on Solo Row and also to help stake out some turf for Team Overland Journal. The campground will be open on Thursday at noon, but that's super early. Let me know when you head down and we can meet up down there to lay claim to some land for the ExPo crew.

[efuentes]

Lastly, there are some (including me) that are of the opinion that hard tails are actually great for building solid riding fundamentals. Even after 25 years of riding and racing on and off road, I think riding a hard tail today makes me a better rider and while I'm no hot shot, I've had more than a few guys on full suspension guys in front of me on sweet downhills clogging my "flow."

Ever since I started riding my rigid almost 29er(650b) old trails are fun again.

[trailsurfer]

I had a major panic attack three weeks ago and started logging 14 hour weeks on the road bike to prepare. I'm freaked out because I'm about 4 weeks behind on my prep. What category are you in? I'm racing solo singlespeed. I think I'm heading down late on Thursday or very early on Friday. I want to grab a good spot on Solo Row and also to help stake out some turf for Team Overland Journal. The campground will be open on Thursday at noon, but that's super early. Let me know when you head down and we can meet up down there to lay claim to some land for the ExPo crew.

I am on the Overland Journal Team, so I just need to get my 3 laps in. I am sure you will be well prepared. I have never ridden the course and I have heard that it is really fast and flowy (sp?).

[Flounder]

I am on the Overland Journal Team, so I just need to get my 3 laps in. I am sure you will be well prepared. I have never ridden the course and I have heard that it is really fast and flowy (sp?).The course isn't all that hard. There's about 6 miles of really tight singletrack that requires you stay focused as to not crunch any cactus on or off the trail. There's one genuine climb, but even that climb is only 300 feet of gain. It's one of those courses that is only as hard as you make it.

And so we don't completely hijack this thread.....

The course is a prime example of a terrain best suited for a hard tail. :bike_rider:

[Bike_Mech]

I know a couple shops in the area there have demo full suspension bikes that you can rent to try out on the actual trails. The rental fee is generally returned if you purchase a bike from them. Even if you don't buy it from them or don't even like that model it's better to invest $60 and know instead of $2k.

-Chris


At 6ft and just a wee bit under 200lbs it would certainly be cheaper for me to cut back a little on the Ben&Jerry's than spend that extra$$ money for the last few pounds on a bike. You advice here is spot on but still I'm a sucker for nice stuff will probably buy a bike that is better than my ability. Yeah I'm a poser!



I can appreciate this advice but the thing is I have'nt been riding any off road yet since I don't have a mountain bike yet. I could probaby start by borrowing some bikes though. That can be a little hard though.

I should have reaized this before starting this tread. I was kind of just under the assumtion that the FS bikes were mostly just for the downhill stuff. If it's not obvious by now I'm new to mountain biking and even though I ride my bikes all the time I really spend zero time reading about biking. The guys I ride with are only into road bikes period.

[STREGA]

:bike_rider: I have been riding Mountainbikes since the mid 80's and have seen alot of bikes come and go. All materials have good/bad points like durability, wieght, rigidity, cost etc. Finding the right bike when you have no mt. bike experiance is not a easy thing to do, ask 10 different people which one is right will more than likely get you 10 different answers, Not saying you should'nt ask for advice just don't put to much stock in one opinion. You will more than likely go through a few bikes before figuring out what you want/like in a bike, I did, so don't buy the most expensive version of a type/brand/version of a bike the first time out. Alot of bike companies use the same frame and just have models with different levels of componet quality which is the real reason for price differances. There are many things to consider beside frame material when buying a mt. bike like 26" vs 29" wheels, top tube lenght (real important imo), H/T vs full suspension. If you can borrow a friends mt.bike assuming your are close in size or even rent a few different bikes and take them out on a easy/moderate trail so you are evaluating the bike and not your bike handling skills (those will come in time!) a 10 mile loop or so would be good and take all the bikes on the same trail to keep it consistent. Most shops will credit you the rental fees if you buy a bike from them.

As far as frame materials its hard not to generalize but I found for me that a good quality steel or Ti (had a Kona King Kahuna with 6/4 ti seat & chain stays that I wish I had back) for a hardtail was best and Aluminum for a F/S makes a light but ridgid frame. Never had a Carbon Fiber frame so I can't comment on them personally but always thought they would be to easily damaged on the type of trails I mostly rode although Carbon Fiber riser bars gave alot of relief to my old bones and joints.

[Flounder]

I mostly rode although Carbon Fiber riser bars gave alot of relief to my old bones and joints.You can attribute that to the riser aspect, not the carbon aspect. Even bar manufacturers such as TTT and ITM will often tell you that aluminum bars (usually in high frequency vibration scenarios on the pavement) will be more comfortable than much stiffer carbon bars. Carbon myth number 512: Carbon bars absorb more vibration than aluminum bars. Not true.

[zukrider]

i vote Giant Anthem in the highest trim you feel comfortable in purchasing. the maestro rear suspension is so climber friendly and the anthem is a 4" xc and quite light i might ad.

definately worth throwing a leg on. also reccomend a 29'er on the hardtail side. fun ride

[3konas]

I would bet you will be happy with either. Just ride and have fun! That's what it's all about. I have multiple bikes and sometimes I find myself reaching for the bike that has air in the tires. At no time during the ride do I say, " ah man, I should've grabbed the softtail". Sure, some trails you can go faster on a full suspension rig, banging over roots, rocks and off drops, but sometimes finessing the trail on a rigid or hardtail is where it's at. Ride a rigid around on your trails for month and go back to your hardtail or FS bike and I guarantee you will be faster! I even ride my cyclocross bike on singletrack trails. It's slow, jarring, I crash a lot, but it's fun and it makes me a better rider! Ride what you got and have fun!

I'm from the northwest and I support Kona. A ti Hei Hei that I bought in 1990 was my first Kona. Current forks won't work with 1990 geometry so it became a rigid singlespeed. That bike has seen some of the best trails in Colorado, Idaho, Moab, Oregon and all of the best trails in Washington.;) It took me around New Zealand with racks held on with pipe hangers. It has had a tough life, and 20 years on, I still ride it like it was new. I can't say that about the steel or aluminum bikes I've owned. Something to consider when choosing a bike.

A friend of mine lived in SB with his girlfriend (now his wife) and he said the riding was great, road and Mtn. They moved to Marin and now he floods me with pictures of the road rides there. I need to make my way south!

Enjoy

[Bike_Mech]

Carbon myth number 512: Carbon bars absorb more vibration than aluminum bars. Not true.

But they, carbon bars, do have a longer life cycle of such vibrations.

I'm no engineer, but that's what I've been told for the past 10 years since carbon bars have been the dominant handlebar material.

-Chris

[STREGA]

You can attribute that to the riser aspect, not the carbon aspect. Even bar manufacturers such as TTT and ITM will often tell you that aluminum bars (usually in high frequency vibration scenarios on the pavement) will be more comfortable than much stiffer carbon bars. Carbon myth number 512: Carbon bars absorb more vibration than aluminum bars. Not true.

Didn't know about carbon myth #512, but I replaced a Easton aluminum riser bar with a Easton carbon riser bar with about the same rise, sweep and width and the differance was amazing for me, maybe it was the placebo effect or something.

[Flounder]

Didn't know about carbon myth #512, but I replaced a Easton aluminum riser bar with a Easton carbon riser bar with about the same rise, sweep and width and the differance was amazing for me, maybe it was the placebo effect or something.Don't get me wrong, I think carbon is pretty sexy. I've got carbon bars on my rig and they do exactly what they're intended to do...look great. I have an old racing friend from way back that has been a product manager for ITM for several years. He told me they did volumes of testing and found their aluminum bars muted vibrations as efficiently, if not better than their carbon bars which were stiffer and used more material mass which they said conducted vibrations just fine. This also explains why so many Pro Tour riders were opting to use aluminum bars over blingier carbon bars. That trend is changing because as was said recently by the head Fred at Deda - fewer high caliber aluminum bars are available.

You also have to take into consideration the frequency of vibrations that in theory could become troublesome for a rider. Those vibrations that carbon can effectively mute (again in theory) are extremely high frequency vibrations. Such vibrations on mountain bikes simply don't travel through fat tires, spokes, forks, rubber grips, padded gloves, etc.

Carbon has an interesting affect on people's perceptions and expectations. If carbon is capable of soaking up vibrations, how would you predict the ride of a Cervelo P4 TT bike with 90mm deep carbon wheel up front, full disc out back, carbon saddle sans padding, carbon bars sans tape and only 2mm of neoprene on the elbow pads. Oh, and 20mm tires up front. Ya....that's a lot of carbon and you better believe that bike would ride like a jackhammer.

[STREGA]

Don't get me wrong, I think carbon is pretty sexy. I've got carbon bars on my rig and they do exactly what they're intended to do...look great. I have an old racing friend from way back that has been a product manager for ITM for several years. He told me they did volumes of testing and found their aluminum bars muted vibrations as efficiently, if not better than their carbon bars which were stiffer and used more material mass which they said conducted vibrations just fine. This also explains why so many Pro Tour riders were opting to use aluminum bars over blingier carbon bars. That trend is changing because as was said recently by the head Fred at Deda - fewer high caliber aluminum bars are available.

You also have to take into consideration the frequency of vibrations that in theory could become troublesome for a rider. Those vibrations that carbon can effectively mute (again in theory) are extremely high frequency vibrations. Such vibrations on mountain bikes simply don't travel through fat tires, spokes, forks, rubber grips, padded gloves, etc.

Carbon has an interesting affect on people's perceptions and expectations. If carbon is capable of soaking up vibrations, how would you predict the ride of a Cervelo P4 TT bike with 90mm deep carbon wheel up front, full disc out back, carbon saddle sans padding, carbon bars sans tape and only 2mm of neoprene on the elbow pads. Oh, and 20mm tires up front. Ya....that's a lot of carbon and you better believe that bike would ride like a jackhammer.

No worrys, don't want to get into a Pxxxing match about carbon fiber. I didn't bolt on a carbon fiber bar for it's bling factor, but out of frustration due to after ride aches and pain I was having. Since I worked @ a shop @ the time the bars didn't cost much and seemed like it would be worth a shot. It helped and literally made the differance between riding and not riding for me.

Not only would the Cervelo ride like a jackhammer but it would be very fast also, everything is a compromise I guess. When I was 20, something like that would be a blast to ride, @ fifty+ it would kill me.

Anyway go ride some of that Prescott singletrack for me, My local trails are under about 4+ feet of snow so its snowshoeing for me for now.

[Flounder]

I didn't bolt on a carbon fiber bar for it's bling factor

Anyway go ride some of that Prescott singletrack for me, My local trails are under about 4+ feet of snow so its snowshoeing for me for now.
I'm certainly guilty of lusting after bling factor. If you don't look good.....

Are you using locking grips? I forget the study I found a couple years ago, but with regard to high frequency vibrations, it was discovered that lock on grips like those from ODI and Ergon did the most to attenuate vibrations. Makes sense. Sure has helped me.

And we Prescottonians will be trainer bound for a while. I woke up to 6" of snow this morning. It's probably rained an inch since. Tomorrow is supposed to be worse. Bummer.

[STREGA]

I'm certainly guilty of lusting after bling factor. If you don't look good.....

Are you using locking grips? I forget the study I found a couple years ago, but with regard to high frequency vibrations, it was discovered that lock on grips like those from ODI and Ergon did the most to attenuate vibrations. Makes sense. Sure has helped me.

And we Prescottonians will be trainer bound for a while. I woke up to 6" of snow this morning. It's probably rained an inch since. Tomorrow is supposed to be worse. Bummer.

No amout of bling will ever make me look good, but when you work @ a bike shop its hard not to buy all the candy lol

Never used the locking grips, but it does make sense it would kinda be like handlebar wieghts like they use on motorcycles

The up side of moisture on the trails is the traction after it drys up, ya it looks like you guys are going to get hammered down there, we been getting more than our fair share here. :bike_rider:

[DaveInDenver]

And we Prescottonians will be trainer bound for a while. I woke up to 6" of snow this morning. It's probably rained an inch since. Tomorrow is supposed to be worse. Bummer.
Whimps. :-) We ride year 'round (well as long as there's snow and ice on the trails).

A box of panhead screws and an old pair of tires keeps you going. However I just invested in actual winter tires, a Kenda Klondike and a Nokian Extreme, to save a little weight. Turns out that 250 #6 stainless panheads screwed into an old Smoke weighs about 1,600 grams. The Nokian weights about 950 grams and the Kenda about 990 grams. Total saving will be more than a kg, well over a pound per tire rotating. Yeah! I might actually roll faster than I walk now...

[jammyauto]

Ok so I've spent many hours parousing the net and reading magazines and buyers guides. I've been to my LBS and looked at a few bikes but have not had the chance yet to ride anything. So far I've narrowed it down to two possibilities; The Specialized Epic comp 29er or the Gary Fisher HiFi 29er (the middle range one, can't remember the name). Both bike are about 2500.00. I'm leaning toward the Specialized because 1. The reviews I've read give me the impression that the brain will make this bike a better climbing bike (I like to climb and there lots of mountains around here) and 2. I like the specialized dealer better than the GF dealer (not the same store). So what do you all think? Any other rides I should consider in the 29er FS under 3K range?

Next question is pedals. The buyers guide I got at borders has nothing about pedals. I want something that I can ride both clipless or with sneakers. My road bike has speedplay pedals and I've ridden it with sneakers a couple miles once and it's really a no go. Reccomendations please ?

[Corey]

Get the Specialized bike, I like them, very good quality.
I have a thread around here on pedals.
It might be in my bike build thread.

I have had two sets of clipless pedals, and I do not like them.
I am switching back to my Straitline pedals this weekend with Five Ten shoes that have a very sticky sole.

Many who ride trails swear by this combo over being clipped in.

[Flounder]

I like the idea of buying the bike you think is the more cooler. I know, it's a very scientific method, but seriously, there gets to be a point when bike technology is not just good but probably better than any of us as riders. I also like the idea of buying from the shop you like as you may need to go back for tune ups, widgets, advice, etc.

On the pedal thing - there's going to be huge doses of personal opinion there. For me, if you took away my clipless pedals, I'd take up lawn bowling. I'd hate to ride without them and the tweener pedals with clipless on one side and platforms on the other are a cruel joke. Don't go there. If you already use road clipless, chances are you'll like the bennies of mtb clipless, but you'll never know unless you try. If you go that route, my experience has lead me to think Shimano SPDs are the better bet. I've busted many Egg Beaters, and Speedplays, but SPDs are pretty solid, common and reliable. TIME is another very good system.

[Bike_Mech]

Ok so I've spent many hours parousing the net and reading magazines and buyers guides. I've been to my LBS and looked at a few bikes but have not had the chance yet to ride anything. So far I've narrowed it down to two possibilities; The Specialized Epic comp 29er or the Gary Fisher HiFi 29er (the middle range one, can't remember the name). Both bike are about 2500.00. I'm leaning toward the Specialized because 1. The reviews I've read give me the impression that the brain will make this bike a better climbing bike (I like to climb and there lots of mountains around here) and 2. I like the specialized dealer better than the GF dealer (not the same store). So what do you all think? Any other rides I should consider in the 29er FS under 3K range?


Did you goto Bicycle Bob's there in SB?

[Corey]

Here are the pedals I will be putting back on too.
No more clipless for me, especially trail riding.
I hate stopping fast and having trouble getting my foot out fast.
http://www.straitlinecomponents.com/products/pedals.php

Pedals are totally rebuildable, they have videos on the site.
Here is the only picture I have of them (http://www.pnw4runners.com/bike_stuff/straitline_pedals/6.jpg) on the bike.
With these pedals and the Five Ten shoes, the shoes stay planted very well.

If I was sticking to street riding only I would stay with the clipless, but here is the type of stuff I will be riding, and being able to take your foot off for balance in a split second is not something I can do while clipped in.

http://vimeo.com/8417542

http://vimeo.com/8955469

[trailsurfer]

Ok so I've spent many hours parousing the net and reading magazines and buyers guides. I've been to my LBS and looked at a few bikes but have not had the chance yet to ride anything. So far I've narrowed it down to two possibilities; The Specialized Epic comp 29er or the Gary Fisher HiFi 29er (the middle range one, can't remember the name). Both bike are about 2500.00. I'm leaning toward the Specialized because 1. The reviews I've read give me the impression that the brain will make this bike a better climbing bike (I like to climb and there lots of mountains around here) and 2. I like the specialized dealer better than the GF dealer (not the same store). So what do you all think? Any other rides I should consider in the 29er FS under 3K range?

Next question is pedals. The buyers guide I got at borders has nothing about pedals. I want something that I can ride both clipless or with sneakers. My road bike has speedplay pedals and I've ridden it with sneakers a couple miles once and it's really a no go. Reccomendations please ?

I think the Epic29er is a great choice. A couple of good friends have them, and they could not be happier. I agree with Flounder on the Pedals. I would go with the Shimano SPD's. I have had Crank Brothers and Speedplays, and they all have broken many times while the SPD's have been bomb proof.

[jammyauto]

Did you goto Bicycle Bob's there in SB?
Yes, Bob brings his vanagon to my shop for repairs so I always try to reciprocate my business with my customers. Hazzard's is also a great shop and they are specialized dealers as well. So two great choices in this town for specialized. I don't dislike the GF dealer, I just don't know them.

That's two reccomendations for the SPD's so I guess I'll give'em a try. As a road bike rider I could'nt imagine not being able to click in. Especially climbing hills. BTW why do we clip in to clipless pedals?

Thanks everyone for the input. It ill be a few days before I place the order and probably a few more days to get the bike. At anyrate I hope to be riding it in a couple weeks time.

[Flounder]

BTW why do we clip in to clipless pedals?
Excellent question. Before 1984 every racer used pedals with toe clips. The cream of the crop being Campy Super Record pedals and toe clips with Alfredo Binda toe straps. Then, in 1984 LOOK came out with the first "clipless" pedal using LOOK's ski binding technology. So long toe clip. Since Bernard Hinault used them, I sure had to, and bought my first pair of LOOKs in 1985. Mavic released similar pedals in 85. Early clipless were heavy like boat anchors, had terrible clearance, required you to drill your own cleat holes in your shoes which often ripped apart but, they were pretty cool. TIME was the next big brand on the scene. Shimano was a tad late to the game but others like Sampson, and Aerolite were also popular in the 80s. I think it's interesting to note, LOOK's cleat and pedal system has remained the same (mostly) since 1984. Shimano's SPD system which hit the market in the late 80s is also largely unchanged.

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

I owned a $6K Seven Cycles Teres softtail and hated it...sold it for 1/2 of what I paid 1 1/2 months later. To qualify this, I'm 6'0", and the frame was fairly large and "noodly". My friend rode the same model bike, but is shorter and his frame was more compact. He liked his, and didn't feel that it was noodly at all.

I'm a hardtail guy, and that won't change. My advice is worth what you paid for it. :sombrero:

Craig

[Cackalak Han]

Never had a softtail, but plenty of full suspensions. Now they're all sold. I like feeling the trail more with a hard tail, and of course a lighter bike is also a benefit. It's also a deterrant to keep me from bombing down rocky trails. :sombrero:

Currently, I don't own a single bike with suspension.


My advice is worth what you paid for it. :sombrero:

Priceless? :elkgrin:

[EricBirk]

I am dh'er so its no secret where my loyalty lies. I however would love to get my hands on a steel or Ti 29er for bombing around on.

Comfort for REALLY long rides and the ability to ride almost all terrain, go with a duallie. Suspension these days is so good my dh bike actually climbs hills half assed not so bad!!!! now thats saying something.
Right now I have a Marin Quake with the custom 8" travel rear link that I got from Shaums March, and a Boxxer on the front. All my buddies ride Intense (m6's, m3's, socoms, 951) I however chose the Marin because it is my "all purpose" dh rig. It can go down with the best of em and still go flat and climb when I need it too.

When I get on a Marin Attack Trail I am in absolute love. In my opinion the quad link is the most under rated suspension system out today. Anyone who rides one and says it rides like crap either has no idea, or doesnt have it setup right.

Anyways thats the end of my Marin rant. Go with a duallie!! oh and I really like the Ibis too :victory: