Frame saver?

[Cackalak Han]

Those that have steel bikes, did you use any kind of frame saver to prevent rust? I just bought an all steel SS MTB frame and I'm just wondering if I should get it treated. Or maybe just drill a tiny hole at the bottom at the BB? I honestly don't think it will rust out before my riding life time, especially adding in the fact that I technically live in a desert.

Anyway, just curious what your thoughts were.

[TCM]

I always use Weigle Frame Saver in my steel frames. Even in the desert it is cheap insurance against corrosion and adds negligible weight. A hole in the bottom of the BB is also a must to drain water, assuming the BB shell is actually open to the seat tube. Some BB modern shells are a solid tube and a hole would serve no purpose.

[ckblum]

You mean like a chro-mo frame? I had chro-mo BMX's and older steel framed bikes and never had a problem with corrosion and I live in the lower mainland of BC, rainy and wet, near the ocean.

I wouldn't drill a hole in the BB, I think it would just let dirt and nasties enter.

[Bike_Mech]

I also always use Weigle Frame Saver in my steel frames. Water sometimes can't get down to the bb shell. And I agree that it is cheap insurance. I've seen frames rust out through the toptube where moisture collected that seeped down the seatpost and down the toptubes venthold(I suspect that was the path).

-Chris

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

I always use Weigle Frame Saver in my steel frames. Even in the desert it is cheap insurance against corrosion and adds negligible weight. A hole in the bottom of the BB is also a must to drain water, assuming the BB shell is actually open to the seat tube. Some BB modern shells are a solid tube and a hole would serve no purpose.

I have used Frame Saver in one former steel tandem (good rust insurance), but it's heavy, goopy stuff. I could tell a noticeable difference in the bicycle weight (again, this was a tandem, though). For my current bikes, I typically just use a spray-type oil and/or 3-in-1 oil once a year. I'm more of a "fair weather rider", though, so don't typically ride in thick, nasty, rainy slop.

Craig

[4xdog]

I have steel frames that are over 90 years old, and doing just fine with no frame saver.

I have a 35+ year old Reynolds 531 DB frame on a commuter that has a number of scratches and scrapes, but no rust.

I have a 3 year old Waterford fast road frame that I **did** use Weigel's Frame Saver on, but that's mainly cause I spent almost $3000 on a custom 68 cm frame with polished stainless lugs and BB, and I'm planning to ride that one until I drop (or the Alex Singer now being finished for me turns out to be an even better bike)!

My conclusion -- go ahead and treat. It's not hard to do, and it'll give some peace of mind. Is it really needed? I don't think so. If you stay on top of cleaning the frame, and especially watch bottle cage inserts, you'll be just fine.

Don

[Co-opski]

I love the Waterford and Gunner bikes. Same goes for me nothing added to my steel frames and I live in a rainforest. The best thing to do is not leave it outside all winter in the snow. Bring it in and clean it now and then you should be good.

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

One other point, which will vary on geography, is that it's a more sensitive issue in the northern climates if your bikes stay in an unheated garage. The inside of the steel tubes will "sweat" with temperature fluctuations. All of my steel bikes stay nice 'n cozy indoors.

The only exception is the BMX tandem I built for my kids, which hung in a damp, uninsulated pole barn for 2 years. However, the tubing on this bike is so freakin' thick, I'm not really worried about it. :sombrero:

Craig

http://www.altelco.net/~emenaker/images/bmxTandemComplete2.jpg

[Cackalak Han]

Ok, so another question -- Is it PROVEN to work? If I treat the frame (properly), will I never have to worry about rust?

One other question - Will using spray paint to paint the inside of the tubes work?

Just to point out, my steel bikes are not ridden in snow or a lot of rain. Mostly for summer rides. We hardly have any mud out here, much less substantial rain showers, so that probably won't be an issue.

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

Ok, so another question -- Is it PROVEN to work? If I treat the frame (properly), will I never have to worry about rust?

One other question - Will using spray paint to paint the inside of the tubes work?

Just to point out, my steel bikes are not ridden in snow or a lot of rain. Mostly for summer rides. We hardly have any mud out here, much less substantial rain showers, so that probably won't be an issue.


It's steel - there's never a guarantee against rust, despite what any coating manufacturers may claim. You can prevent, but not guarantee. Seriousy, I can see where you're coming from. I used to be (and still am to an extent) very anal-retentive about my bikes, and I worried about rust a lot. Now I use preventative cautions, and don't worry as much. I just ride & enjoy.

Paint probably won't stick well, as there will be oils on the inside of the frame, most likely. Even if there wasn't, you wouldn't get consistent coverage in the tubes.

Are you opposed to the light oiling idea?

Craig

[tacollie]

I have seen frames rust with frame saver on occasion. Most newer frames have weep holes that allow moisture to dry out. 10-15 years ago builders thought they could weld the tubes shut to prevent rust. This limits weld penetration and potentially traps moisture in. Fat Chance and Ibis were a couple brands that really had that problem.

Honestly, I think is is more important to clean the sweet off your frame as it tends to creep under cable guides where paint coverage can be tricky. I have seen 6 month old aluminum frames with top tubes that have corrossion holes.

[xcmountain80]

I have done nothing and had the 531 Reynolds frame since I was 14, I still have it and still ride it while scratched it is not rusting. I spray gt85 or triflow in the internal cable guides and breather holes about once a year just in case. The bike is a Trek 660.

A

[Cackalak Han]

1x1 Speed Craig - I'm not opposed to the light oiling, and honestly, that's what I'll probably do. I do not want to cake the inside with that frame saver stuff. If I ever do splash into a creek or whatever, I'll take out the seat post, fork, BB and leave it inside to dry out for a while.

Thanks for all of the replies.

[tacollie]

My brother has a Reynolds 853 Fluid that with him for 13 years now. It spent a couple years in Missouri, 5 in Hawaii, a couple in Colorado, and the last two in Oregon. When you go out in the heat and sweat all over it clean it off when you are done. If you chip the paint touch it up. Its a lot like your truck in that sense.

[Cackalak Han]

Good tips, tacollie. How are the CO trails? Is it different than UT?

[tacollie]

Trails vary a lot in Colorado. The western slope is obviously similar to Utah. The mountains can be real nice outside of the snow and mud seasons. Lots of dirt that offers good traction. The front range offers a wide variety of trails. Where I am it is mostly gravel, sand, and sandstone.

Soveriegn the Ritcheys tend to hold up better than a lot of bikes from that era. Just make sure the paint is in good shape and you should be good for a while.

I like hearing about people riding all these steel hardtails.:wings:

[tacollie]

Nice color sovereign. Is That logo airbrushed?

[TCM]

Why take the risk. Weigle's Frame Saver is made specifically to protect steel frames, is cheap and it works. The cost is less than $15 and if applied correctly will completely cover the inside of the tubes. Once it has set, it is a very thin layer of protection that does not flow and is not at all messy or clogging.

Modern steel bicycle frames are made with very thin gauge tubing which does not hold up to corrosion. Sure the inside of our truck frames are probably unpainted but then again these frames are in some case close to 6mm thick. Bicycle frames on the other hand can have sections of tubing less than 1mm thick. Trust me on this, I had a steel Davidson road frame that rusted through above the BB and this was while living in Colorado, a "dry" state.

Use Weigles and put a 1/8" hole in the very bottom of the bottom bracket shell next to the cable guide to drain water out of the seat tube. This does absolutely nothing to harm the frame but allows water that has run down along the post to drain out. It also protects the bottom bracket bearings which can otherwise be destroyed in very short order if surrounded by water. Of course if your BB shell is solid and not open to the seat tube then this hole is not necessary or even desirable and many Tig welded frames do have this solid style BB shell.

[TCM]

I have seen frames rust with frame saver on occasion. Most newer frames have weep holes that allow moisture to dry out. 10-15 years ago builders thought they could weld the tubes shut to prevent rust. This limits weld penetration and potentially traps moisture in. Fat Chance and Ibis were a couple brands that really had that problem.

Honestly, I think is is more important to clean the sweet off your frame as it tends to creep under cable guides where paint coverage can be tricky. I have seen 6 month old aluminum frames with top tubes that have corrossion holes.

Independent Fabrications does not use any breather holes in the construction of their frames and they are some of the best steel models on the market. The top tube, down tube, seat stays, chain stays and fork legs (if spec'd with a steel fork) are completely sealed. This does nothing to prevent the application of a proper tig weld nor does it lead to corrosion problems. Yes there is a very small amount of water vapor (from the air) that is inside the tube at the time of construction . But this moisture it is irrelevant as the oxygen inside the sealed tubes is quickly used up by the formation of a miniscule amount of rust which then creates and anaerobic environment (zero oxygen) that prevents further corrosion.

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

Recently powdercoated in APC Green:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/triuneself/IMG_0269.jpg

Semi O.T...

That's one sexy bike. More pics, please. :sombrero:

[tacollie]

Independent Fabrications does not use any breather holes in the construction of their frames and they are some of the best steel models on the market. The top tube, down tube, seat stays, chain stays and fork legs (if spec'd with a steel fork) are completely sealed. This does nothing to prevent the application of a proper tig weld nor does it lead to corrosion problems. Yes there is a very small amount of water vapor (from the air) that is inside the tube at the time of construction . But this moisture it is irrelevant as the oxygen inside the sealed tubes is quickly used up by the formation of a miniscule amount of rust which then creates and anaerobic environment (zero oxygen) that prevents further corrosion.

This is true, but real world welds arn't always "proper". I have seen multiple Indepentent Fab bikes with tiny holes in their welds and therefore not completely sealed. Independant fab is one of the few companies that still tries to seal their tubes for a reason. The other problem with this is it is impossible to back purge. The welds cannot fully penetrate without it. This is not the end of the world and thats why 95% of steel frame builders don't do it. Back purged frames are far stronger than ones that arn't. Don at Anvil has a good article about this. http://anvilbikes.com/?news_ID=22&catID=3

I guess a builder could easily plug their purge hole after the fact. Sorry if I wasn't clear with my earlier post. Also, I am not against Indepentant or anything like that.

[tacollie]

Why take the risk. Weigle's Frame Saver is made specifically to protect steel frames, is cheap and it works. The cost is less than $15 and if applied correctly will completely cover the inside of the tubes. Once it has set, it is a very thin layer of protection that does not flow and is not at all messy or clogging.

Modern steel bicycle frames are made with very thin gauge tubing which does not hold up to corrosion. Sure the inside of our truck frames are probably unpainted but then again these frames are in some case close to 6mm thick. Bicycle frames on the other hand can have sections of tubing less than 1mm thick. Trust me on this, I had a steel Davidson road frame that rusted through above the BB and this was while living in Colorado, a "dry" state.

Use Weigles and put a 1/8" hole in the very bottom of the bottom bracket shell next to the cable guide to drain water out of the seat tube. This does absolutely nothing to harm the frame but allows water that has run down along the post to drain out. It also protects the bottom bracket bearings which can otherwise be destroyed in very short order if surrounded by water. Of course if your BB shell is solid and not open to the seat tube then this hole is not necessary or even desirable and many Tig welded frames do have this solid style BB shell.

Did you Davidson have sealed water bottle bosses? A lot of times moisture gets in that way.