Trash storage

[pwc]

Keeping up with my line of storage thread... :) ....
I've struggled from time to time with a good system for storing trash on the trail. Usually the plastic bag works fine but I'm one of those guys who in the past has been known to drink a good number of bottles of liquid type refreshments. So I'd like to seperate the gross smelling trash stuff from the likes of recycling things (it's ok to group all recycling into one container). The plastic bag just doesn't work well out here in the PNW as we have trees that like to rip them open.

So I'm looking for suggestions of a fairly cheap, easy method of storing/separating trash and recycling for a multiday backcountry trip. Something that won't spill.

I had the idea of some kind of storage box (rubbermaid kind, not hard plastic) but that hasn't been perfected.

Any ideas?

[DaveInDenver]

I use heavy duty trash bags as liners inside a dry bag. The dry bag keeps the smell at bay and the heavy lining (I use the 3 mil bags from Home Depot) makes it easy to clean up at the end. You are limited only by the size of a dry bag you use. A small one works fine on a day trip and a bigger one (or several I suppose in your case to separate waste) covers you on a long trip.

[mountainpete]

Check out my other thread on Ziploc big bags... might work for you. :sombrero:

[Scott Brady]

This is a great thread. Trash was the one consideration I spaced when designing my truck. I am considering some type of canvas bag to hang from the back...

[Whoknows]

I'm using one of these. I line it with a trash bag. It has a lid and it can be used to store gear at other times.

http://www.shop.com/op/~Kingsford_Kaddy_Charcoal_Dispenser_Clear_Containe r_with_Blue_Lid_20_H_x_10_W_x_19_D-prod-35417814-46707275?sourceid=3

[articulate]

:REOutArchery02:
You hit the mark with this thread! Dealing with trash is complicated because you don't start out with any on board. Instinctively I think that Scott's canvas bag idea has the most merit. Heavy duty, and it can pack away once it's emptied. Especially at the beginning of a trip.

What do yo do with the plastic bins at the start of a trip?

[Nullifier]

In Oz they make these bags that strap tot he rear spare tire carrier like a back pack for trash. Michelles sacks makes a nice unit down there. It is a problem though. One thing I have is a collapsible trash can that works great for camp. I put a bag in it and then toss it in the bed or cargo rack after.

[goodtimes]

The best way to store trash is to simply not generate it. I usually start by getting rid of as much as I can at home. Food gets stored in tuperware containers (which get washed and go home with me). Paper towels are replaced with cotton towels that get thrown in with the dirty clothes once they are dirty. Non disposable plastic cups and light weight pans (hijacked from my backpacking stuff) usually serve as dishes--all washed and re-used. I pack most of my meat in freezer paper, which burns quite nicely. By the end of most trips, I only have a single burlap sack partially filled with cans and [glass] bottles.

[desertgirl66]

The best way to store trash is to simply not generate it. I usually start by getting rid of as much as I can at home. Food gets stored in tuperware containers (which get washed and go home with me). Paper towels are replaced with cotton towels that get thrown in with the dirty clothes once they are dirty. Non disposable plastic cups and light weight pans (hijacked from my backpacking stuff) usually serve as dishes--all washed and re-used. I pack most of my meat in freezer paper, which burns quite nicely. By the end of most trips, I only have a single burlap sack partially filled with cans and [glass] bottles.

Yes, good point Brian. We try and pre cook a lot of food and then seal-a-meal it to boil up in hot water at camp. Most veges are pre-chopped and eggs are already put into containers that can be washed out. It's those darned "beverage" containers that can build up :p

[SeaRubi]

my plan has always been to generate a ton of trash, and just let pwc take it away on the top of his 110. i guess this plan hasn't been working out so well for pwc :wings:

i like the idea of using lined dry-bags. would probably pack down relatively well and stowe easily on a roof rack. and +1 on not generating any ... good feedback there.

we had talked about trying to make some kind of manual trash compactor at one point that would condense garbage down and then get added to a container exclusively retained for that purpose. sounds good in theory, however concrete details in terms of implementation are fleeting.

[calamaridog]

I think Brian hit the most important point. Unpack stuff from the original bulky packaging and use reusable containers. This works well for most things but disposable plates, etc. cut down on the need for water to clean. Not washing dishes also means more time for :beer: and :REOutCampFire03:

Many standard trash bags are .5 mil thick. I use true "heavy duty" bags that are 4 mil thick. I used to have some that were 6 mil thick, but I don't see them anymore and will have to special order them. Use a plastic zip tie to close the bag up tight.

[BlueFly]

I've been mulling this over too. I prefer the canvas/dry bag solution- lightweight, expandable, stowable when empty, can hang off the back and not take up interior space. Just have to figure out the best material/tie down system.

I've also considered using one of the gamma lids on a bucket though. Depends on the trip and what kind of trash you'll be generating. If you're traveling through a pack it in/out area the bucket might be better, or a rocket box/ammo can.

[RoundOut]

One of the biggest concerns when storing trash, especially if it contained food, is critters. Critters can smell odors through almost any container and are quite clever at opening things, depending on the frequency of human visitors they have encountered.

Depending on the critters in the area, whether bears, racoons, mini-bears (ground squirrels), or just ants, one must carefully prevent critters from getting your food and your trash. Keeping food in the cab of the truck is safe, but nobody wants to keep their trash in their vehicle, unless the odors can be contained, too.

In forested areas or where scattered trees are available, we have always hoisted food and trash off the ground up under a tree with a rope thrown over a limb. Separate areas if possible, of course. In arid terrain without trees, there are less likely to be large critters, but also no trees available to keep the mini bears or ants away. On a short expedition where space is not at such a premium, take an extra cooler and this works well to keep critters away.

If campfires are permitted, burning everything but metal and glass gets rid of it well, but burning plastic is not very environmentally friendly, as it emits some toxic smoke.

Balancing the amount of water available to clean dishes is also important. If doing dishes, disposal of the dishwater should be done with a sump to capture small food particles that would otherwise end up on the ground. Using a coffee can, cut some holes in the bottom with a canopener. Put pine straw, grasses or other similar media in the can and pour the dishwater over it. The straw will collect the particles and you discard it with your solid waste, whether in a fire or packing it out.

At the end of the day, PLANNING is key. The better one plans meals and cooking, the less trash they'll generate, making this less of an issue.

[pwc]

I like the backpack onthe rear tire idea, that way it won't get ripped by trees. And a heavier bag would help. I have a drybag and tried that once but it was kinda bulky.

Planning is key, but for weekend/3 day trips we don't always spend a lot of time pre-preparing stuff as it takes as much time as does getting to where we're going! I'm not worried about doing dishes since we just have a basin filled with water, put them all in it, and use it as an excuse to get our hands warm at the end of the evening. I also have something of a plan to make sure I've got enough water on board that it's not much of an issue. I like it better than just throwing away paper plates time and again, but that's just me. Although I DO like burning things. :)

I guess we just need to do a better job of putting bottles back in the containers they arrived in, that should help. It's the recycling that tends to add up, more so than garbage at points. Isaac's plan of throwing stuff on top of my truck will soon be ending (roof basket coming off :) ). He may, gasp, have to pack out his own trash in the future :yikes:

The more I think about it, the more I like the thicker 4+ mil bag in some kind of backpack thingy that straps over the spare on the back door. Plus we plan on making the back end of the truck more of a cooking area so having the trash there will be handy.

I remember fondly the discussions about a trash compactor of some kind, something that maybe you drove over. Reducing the amount we create now seems easier :)

Wait, if I put the backpack on the spare tire, how will people know I drive a Land Rover???? :D

[rusty_tlc]

An onion sack hung from the spare work great for beverage empties. The little bit that I can't squeeze out just drains out on the ground. It is also handy to pick up any trash found along the trail. Burlap sacks, and nylon mesh laundry bags work well.

All of the above also serve double duty as dunk sacks to cool said beverages in a mountain stream prior to consumption too.

Note: when you discard the over packaging on food, remember to clip cooking instruction out first. Not that I have ever found my self sitting in camp trying to figure out what to do with three packets of dry ingerdients or anything. :doh:

[SeaRubi]

peter ... say it isn't so! :yikes:

(starts re-reading thread ...)

[devinsixtyseven]

Dealing with trash is complicated because you don't start out with any on board.Ah but you do! It just doesn't look/feel/seem/smell like trash when you start.

Any sealable container, designated trash and planned from the beginning to be stored on the vehicle at full volume, saves trouble later. So does packing items which have "useful" trash--plastic jugs can be rinsed and refilled with purified water, cardboard can be used as kindling.

In the past I've used a small sealable Tupperware container, lined with a bag, for things that can't be burned, buried or eaten. I like the idea of using a solid sealable container rather than a loose bag of any sort, since I'd hate to poke a hole through the bag from either side accidentally (rocks, roots, tools, aluminum cans, accidentally broken glass, etc).

Really the only trash you'll end up with will be cans (aluminum or steel), glass, plastic, and poo...everything else can be eaten, buried or burned.

Last long trip, we made the mistake of taking a zillion half liter bottles of pre-mixed sports drinks. By the end of the trip, the empties were stashed everywhere. It would have been better to mix up something in advance and stick it in a 5g jug.

[david despain]

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1839&highlight=burning+trash

in this thread i mentioned burning the trash. :campfire: seems everyone has their own opionion about that and no two are quite the same. in the past we have burned everything that would burn. that includes steel, glass, and aluminum. never had any sign of it left in the morning. some will argue that it releases bad gasses into the air. this may be true. some would argue there is less stuff to be burried in a landfill, this also may be true. like i said lots of opionions.

[SeaRubi]

Last long trip, we made the mistake of taking a zillion half liter bottles of pre-mixed sports drinks. By the end of the trip, the empties were stashed everywhere. It would have been better to mix up something in advance and stick it in a 5g jug.

+ eleventy billion :) I noticed a dramatic reduction in garbage by making a couple concessions on beverage selection over the summer. For one, I pre-mixed some margaritas instead of bringing beer or wine. My spouse bought me a nice martini travel set for christmas the year prior, and putting it to use I found that gatorade margaritas with a few ice chunks were actually quite palatable as experienced from my nalgene bottle :)

the other was water. I used to carry drinking water almost all in individual bottles. sticking to the nalgene plan I just used bulk water from containers, a couple chunks of ice and a teaspoon of gatorade powder and I was good to go. the gatorade cuts the flat taste of the water and ice stays around longer in the cooler if its not trying to absorb heat from a few dozen bottles ;) this also had the great benefit of being able to carry a much smaller cooler with zero beverages stashed inside. just dinner meat, some eggs and pre-cut veggies. I kept everything uber-sealed inside zip-locks so i could use the ice in beverages.

between those two items alone I think I reduced 50% or more of the garbage levels typically created on multi-day trips.

edit: I also heartily reccomend the use of sporks :) between a couple of lexan sporks I picked up at the surplus for $.99 / spork, and a dutch style SS mess kit i had very little in the way of dishes to clean up after meals.

[pwc]

That thread had just what I was looking for (but couldn't seem to find in my own search :) )

I like two bags mentioned and while it's not a lot of money, I might see if I can get something made up State side and give a local shop some work. My Dad gets a lot of canvas boat work done and I'm sure I can get a bag made up that's just a rectange. then make an X with climbing webbing and clips over the tire. Sew in extra clips that'll attach to the bag near where it goes over the tire. and not let it move much
Run two more pieces of webbing along the circumfrance of the tire face between the top parts of the X as well as the bottom (making the bottom look something like this X ). That should stop the straps of the X from walking down the tire. those can be sewn in permanently but have a tensioner strap in the middle, so they will fit any size wheel.

Right now my wife and I mainly use smaller grocery bags each day. With group trips, the larger contractor thinkness hefty bags would be used. The small ones are handy if you know you will be places you can dump small amounts of trash, while the big ones are handy for groups.

I really like this idea. thanks everyone for the suggestions. the biggest benefit I see (besides finding a way for Isaac to carry his own trash and not having bags leak on my roof) is being able to easily pick up other people's trash on the trail. this has, to our hidden shame, been a short fall of a lot of our trips. we haven't had an easy place to put trail trash so a lot of time the smaller, messy stuff stays put. :eek:

[BajaTaco]

Great thread. If anyone has seen Al Walter's collapsible garbage can, and knows where I can get one of that size, please let me know. The only ones I can find are too big or too small.

BTW, I use plastic bags, and stow them in a plastic storage bin on the roofrack.

[RoundOut]

Great thread. If anyone has seen Al Walter's collapsible garbage can, and knows where I can get one of that size, please let me know. The only ones I can find are too big or too small.

BTW, I use plastic bags, and stow them in a plastic storage bin on the roofrack.

Try this link (http://cgi.ebay.com/LARGE-COLLAPSIBLE-TRASH-GARBAGE-CAN-ONLY-8_W0QQitemZ250069542711QQcmdZViewItem). We have a guy in my son's Scout Troop that brings one of these camping. It's great. Only consideration is if it is windy and you haven't much trash in it yet.

[tdesanto]

I have 2 plastic crates/bins that are the same. Rubbermaid, I think. Flexible, but sturdy. I keep one of them filled with fluids for the car, belts, spare bulbs, etc...you get the idea. The other one fits underneath the other when it's empty and the lids stack nicely. These I keep on the roofrack when traveling. I allow enough space on the roofrack to keep the bins separate whenever I start filling the other one with plastic bags that I've filled with trash.

When at camp, I pull the bin down and either place it on the ground with the open plastic bag to make it easier to throw stuff away, so long as ants or other critters are not an issue. Or, when they are a problem, I use a cargo strap to lash it to my rear spare tire. This keeps it handy and off the ground away from ants and such.

Whenever I pack up for the night, I can either put it inside the vehicle or on top of the roof rack.

Here's a picture of how I might use it at camp (temporary location):
5789

[pwc]

That's a good idea. We now use a bin just like that and tying it to the rear wheel while at camp might be an option.

I've been thinking more and I'm planning to give some netting a try. I'll make something of a basket that is 2'x2'x1' and open at the top. it'll then have straps to go over the rear wheel and I'll put a garbage bag inside when on the trail (where most of the trash is).

I'll post pictures when I get it built.

[frgtwn]

http://www.demobags.com/


I can see these used for lots of purposes, including trash, lined with plastic for the smelly, messy stuff.

Very tough. About a dollar a piece. Reusable. (I have yet to toss one out.)

Carry it on top, on the back? Learn to tie knots. Or use a cargo net if you must.

(They make nice (cheap) gifts for your wheelin' friends.)

Dale

[justfred]

The OP brushed past one of the most important points, IMO - separating the "garbage" from the "trash". Garbage is icky smelly stuff - food remains, soiled food wrappers/cleanups, coffee grounds, poo, etc. This should be well-separated from anything dry and inoffensive. I usually end up with a small bucket (Homerbucket/agribucket lined with a compactor bag) of the former, and a bag (heavy-duty trash bag) of the latter, after a week or so (Burning Man). Depending on where you're camped, sometimes it works to leave the garbage bucket open to dry out - a sprinkle of sand on top helps dry it out or reduce major odors; it occurs to me that salt would work too. Then I fill about another bag with other trash and junk that blows by or I find along the way. Burn any paper products if possible. Some "garbage" can be dried out and burned as well, especially uneaten food (reminder to self: always bring/prepare smaller quantities unless you know it'll get eaten!). The buckets seal well enough to keep odors down, though I usually put the bucket in the back of the trailer, I have carried it in the car when I had to. Use caution when opening/discarding when you get home as contents may have putrified during the flight!

Taking beer in cans rather than in bottles saves a whole lot of space. Unfortunately the better beers don't come that way and you can't repackage beer. A few big bottles are better than small bottles. Tequila tastes fine in Nalgene and is more space-efficient. (I'm told that other mind-altering substances are even more space-efficient, but there are other unpleasant tradeoffs to those as well!) On the other hand, sometimes it's nice to get away into the wilderness and not need to "alter your reality". Plus, I sleep better when I don't drink.

The Demo Bags look great (aside from the annoying auto-play video on their website).

One of my frequent annoyances is when I go out for day trips or beach walks and forget to bring a bag for trail trash. The contractor bags seem like they'd work well for this. Ever notice how most trash bags hide the "mil" size somewhere in the small print, when it might be the most pertinent information on the package?

[pwc]

So you're saying the demo bags need a liner for wet stuff? Looking at them, I'm assuming they don't normally get that kind of trash. That might be a good router to go inside of some holder.

I'm still narrowing down my choice and think I'll have something made up in the next couple of weeks. A heavy bag like those should do the trick.

[frgtwn]

The demobags are a rather porous woven material, somewhat like the poly tarp material. No, they are not designed for liquids, or the yucky stuff we must bring home. So, I suggest a liner.

To address the original post, they can take a lot of abuse from trees, branches, trail demons, and other gremlins attacking those plastic bags. I would love to have a video of a demobag being attacked by a racoon. My money is on the demobag. (This may be retracted at any time.)

Come to think of it, I think I'll take a bunch to this week's trip and pass them out. And, no, I've no interest in the company. I just like stuff that works. And cheap stuff. In that order.

Dale

[elcoyote]

We try to keep our trash down to a minimum by pre-cooking and pre-packaging our food in vacuum sealed bags like Desert Rose. We generally buy fresh or in bulk anyway so this just makes sense and keeps food prep to a minimum in camp.

Paper waste gets burned if we are having a fire, but mostly we pack it out. We never use paper plates or disposible cutlery. Not PC IMO.

Yes, not all the better beers are to be found in cans but there's still plenty to choose from. Wines in a box are getting better, particularly the ones from NZ. Take them out of the box and just transport the bag.

The trash that does get transported out gets seperated for recycling and receives the double hefty bag treatment before being lashed to the roof rack. Haven't lost anything yet!

[HenryJ]

It has been a little over a year now since I had been searching for a tire cover with a pocket to store trash.
This thread , Boomerang Tire Cover! (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3755) started it all for me.
I tried to contact Boomco and was referred to a Land Rover dealer. No luck finding one in either case as , evidentially they had better things to do than sell me a cover.
I continued the search for a bag, sack , or pack that could be attached to the spare tire. I know I had seen solutions from Australia, but have had no luck tracking anything down. I really was not wanting to hang a canvas sack from the back. (just not my style, no offense)

Today I finally broke down and made one.

I used four yards of black duck cloth. This is the material that insulated coveralls are made from. It is breathable and washable. I did not want something that would retain water. Waterproof material would trap moisture and not wash out nearly as well. Not to mention the condensation that may form inside if moist items were stored there. I want stuff to dry out if possible. I had a choice of black, brown or off white. Black won. I have kind of a black thing going with my truck. Sure it might be hot, but it will hide stains better than the lighter colors.

I bought a heavy parka zipper 26" long, heavy thread and some brass grommets. I already had a good stock of 3/8" and 1/4" shock cord, so I was all set there.
It took about four hours to put it all together, including two trips to town for materials. 110 yards of thread was half what I needed ;) All seams are at least double stitched. And it is double layered everywhere.

http://www.s-10crewcab.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10006/normal_cover6.jpg http://www.s-10crewcab.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10006/normal_cover5.jpg

My spare is a 33x9.50-15. The cover fits snugly. I may need to add longer cord if I go to a bigger tire. This was a tight fit to put on. There is plenty of material to go to 10.5 tires if I need to.

http://www.s-10crewcab.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10006/normal_cover4.jpg http://www.s-10crewcab.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10006/normal_cover3.jpg

The grommets in the bottom are to aid in draining so that I can just hose it out. I also "Vee'd" the bottom back side so that road dirt could be washed down and out. It is a little looser at the bottom than I planned, but it offers a nice chute for drainage.

http://www.s-10crewcab.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10006/normal_cover2%7E0.jpg http://www.s-10crewcab.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10006/normal_cover1.jpg

That is a 3L can stuffed in there. I think it will be a nice addition and a handy place to store trash or dirty clothes. Who knows what I might want to put in there. I can see it as a nice place to throw the recovery strap too.

All together I had about $50 in materials. Not a bad price considering I could not find one anywhere. Thanks all for the inspiration!

[TeriAnn]

in this thread i mentioned burning the trash. seems everyone has their own opionion about that and no two are quite the same. in the past we have burned everything that would burn. that includes steel, glass, and aluminum. never had any sign of it left in the morning. some will argue that it releases bad gasses into the air. this may be true. some would argue there is less stuff to be burried in a landfill, this also may be true. like i said lots of opionions.


HOT BUTTON HAS BEEN PRESSED

My opinion is that I have picked up way too much trash out of other people's dead campfires that they have left behind.

Sure everyone thinks their campfire will vaporize steel and ?? with glass. I often times don't use camp sites just because I hate dealing with other people's trash and I'm pathologically incapable of leaving other people's trash behind.

Please, pack out EVERYTHING you do not consume. Don't leave it in a fire pit for others to pack out.

[Bergger]

I like to pack things in reusable containers then use as much paper as possible, plates, paper towels ect. Burn the paper and take the rest with you. I found these on sierra trading post and was thinking of getting a few. They are made for dog food but could have other uses, one being trash. Collapsible and water resistant, 20 or 40 gallon sizes.


http://www.sierratradingpost.com/eccStoreFront/stp/product_images/97441/f_97441_2.jpg

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/eccStoreFront/stp/product_images/97441/f_97441_3.jpg

[ntsqd]

Friend of mine uses car air bags (steering wheel/dash - not suspension) for his trash bag. Made of woven kevlar, so it takes a lot to hurt on. Don't deal with liquids very well on their own, but a normal trash bag as a liner solves that. Best of, in his line of work they're free!