Back country adventures with kids...how do you do it?

[Old#7]

I am dying to get out on some good back country adventures, I really want to have those memories and enjoy the great outdoors with my two young boys and my wife. My boys are 1.5yrs and 3.5 yrs.

I brought up the idea to the wife about going to Canyonlands and hitting elephant hill or the maze district for 3 or 4 days, (I've been and really loved it) and didn't get an enthusiastic reply. She brought up the thought that sitting in the rig for 4-5 hours to get there and then while you are there sitting in the rig throughout the day, and sitting and sitting and sitting, doesn't sound like a good time. She thinks that the boys wouldn't have any fun because they would be strapped in their car seats "the whole trip".
I told her that it's about the journey, the scenery, the memories. She doesn't want to go on a trip to be stuck in a car for 4 days, and says that the boys won't care about the scenery, that they are too young.

My question is HOW DO YOU DO IT?

I have seen tons of pics on here of you guys out and about with your little ones, and your wives. Do they handle all the driving well? Is it like pulling teeth and more of a headache than it is worth. Help me out here. I don't want to resort to leaving them behind and heading out with the guys for 3-4 days cause that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms at home.

Thanks in advance.

[durango_60]

1. Try to go with another family with similarly aged kids.
2. Breaks every hour.
3. Get to camp with plenty of daylight to spare.
4. Bring toys that you think are a waste of space, ask Pskhaat about the priceless dump trucks.
5. If all else fails, have a top secret dvd player that is there for an emergency situation.

As for your wife, she's either in or out and hopefully you've got that figured out by now.

Also check out http://www.adventureparents.com/ for more info.

[Rexsname]

Try adventureparents.com Lots of good ideas great photography and funny writings.

REX

[BIGdaddy]

love my wife
love my three young daughters (5yrs, 3yrs, 8 months)
love them camping
love them in my jeep

comfy seats, yummy snacks, a break every hour to run around, DVD's to watch, books to read, etc, etc, will build up their endurance for longer trips. We drove from montana to san diego when it was just our oldest, and she did perfectly well.

Remember, your babies love your faces the best, and as long as they get to see you on a regular basis and start to understand that you didn't go anywhere, and that you're in the car with them, they seem to understand.

Mud tires WILL hum a kid to sleep. no joke.

Kids love camping, tossing stones, being in a tent, eating s'mores and pancakes for breakfast.

Thats all I got right now...haha

-Brian

[Bcghosttowns]

I love camping with my kids,i have been doing it since he was 3 months old,he's now 15 and its never been better or worse,just different.
Kids love it out there as long as you let them be kids.And start early they will apprieciate it their whole life.

[stevenmd]

Travel with kids is easy. Travel with wife, not so easy. I think it is harder on my wife than the kids. Kids seem to just enjoy everything while my wife spends too much time worrying about the kids that she does not relax and enjoy everything.

[Token]

I've found that the Diphenhydramine hydrochloride route often works best..

http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/images/Benadryl-molecule.jpg
















It's Benadryl..

[Token]

BTW.. That's for the kids and the wife.. Unless you let the kids drive in which case you should take plenty yourself so you can die quitely in your sleep..

[fowldarr]

We've been traveling with our kids since they were born, my only advice...start now. They have done yellowstone, tours of montana, trips from Idaho to Nebraska and back again, My kids are awesome at travel, never had a problem. They love tent camping and not having to take baths, and pancake breakfasts. My wife does fine too, and she was not a camper when we met. In fact, she is already talking about what we are giong to do this summer, and I had to talk her out of a new tent.

[dirtysouth]

1. Try to go with another family with similarly aged kids.
2. Breaks every hour.
3. Get to camp with plenty of daylight to spare.
4. Bring toys that you think are a waste of space, ask Pskhaat about the priceless dump trucks.
5. If all else fails, have a top secret dvd player that is there for an emergency situation.

As for your wife, she's either in or out and hopefully you've got that figured out by now.

Also check out http://www.adventureparents.com/ for more info.



+1


My 4 year old and I drove to Mission Texas from the Atlanta area to visit some family for New Years. I stopped on the beach in Biloxi to not only give her a break but to also break it up for me also. On our return trip, we drove the 1200 miles straight through and she never once gave me any problems. We stopped, stretched and took plenty of breaks. A DVD player if you don't have one will be the best money you can spend to keep everyone sane.

[Detour]

we wheel moab every year and most the time its my little family with me. my 6 year old daughter and her 10 year old brother have been going since they could walk.

me being the trail boss; i get to decide... period :D we have never had problems with kids. the rougher it is, the better they sleep in the back seat.

there will be things for them to do. there will be things expected of them. they will expect to have fun and they do! make sure you stop so they can chuck rocks for a while while you take pictures of it all...

one of the coolest things is how i finally got my wife to drive. i didn't think i would like giving up the wheel but after all these years it was wonderful seeing her enjoy herself that way.

the kids help fix things around camp and they hand tools, air down tires, get snacks and watch out for each other. lots to do... just make sure you let them participate as much as possible.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Dome-Detour/MOAB%202009/P1030611.jpg
10 yo handing me tools

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Dome-Detour/8AJUMR/P1010001.jpg
the wee one airs down my tires

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Dome-Detour/7ajumr/DSC01555.jpg
my wife the very first time behind the wheel on poison spider (wedgie)

[Expedition Key]

I am dying to get out on some good back country adventures, I really want to have those memories and enjoy the great outdoors with my two young boys and my wife. My boys are 1.5yrs and 3.5 yrs.

I brought up the idea to the wife about going to Canyonlands and hitting elephant hill or the maze district for 3 or 4 days, (I've been and really loved it) and didn't get an enthusiastic reply. She brought up the thought that sitting in the rig for 4-5 hours to get there and then while you are there sitting in the rig throughout the day, and sitting and sitting and sitting, doesn't sound like a good time. She thinks that the boys wouldn't have any fun because they would be strapped in their car seats "the whole trip".
I told her that it's about the journey, the scenery, the memories. She doesn't want to go on a trip to be stuck in a car for 4 days, and says that the boys won't care about the scenery, that they are too young.

My question is HOW DO YOU DO IT?

I have seen tons of pics on here of you guys out and about with your little ones, and your wives. Do they handle all the driving well? Is it like pulling teeth and more of a headache than it is worth. Help me out here. I don't want to resort to leaving them behind and heading out with the guys for 3-4 days cause that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms at home.

Thanks in advance.

I've got a 4 year old daughter and we go on "adventures" or "explore" like Dora the Explorer. Playing up the adventure/exploration side is the only thing that has worked so far and it has worked well. We always have some theme ruling our trips like looking for lost treasure (picking up rocks with quartz etc in them) , pirates (she thinks they are everywhere ;), looking for ghost towns, referring to the map going accross the desert..., over the river... and to the mountains!

On the road to our destination it's DVDs. I never hear a peep.


Thats what works for me.

[Harald Hansen]

You've already got lots of great feedback. I just want to chime in to assure you that it's really doable. I had my 1.5 yo and 5 yo in the rear of the car for 6000 km this summer, using most of the tips in this thread.

I would also like to second durango_60's first bullet point about going with another family with kids the same age. It gives the kids something to look forward to on breaks and when setting up camp, and will give the wives someone who understands their troubles... :D

[Klierslc]

X3 on the other family

If you go with a family that you know well, you can also rearrange the seating during your breaks. I.e. Guys in one vehicle, women in the other; older kids in one, sleeping kids in the other; Terminator on DVD in one, Winnie the Pooh in the other; etc. The possibilities are endless.

[R_Lefebvre]

One key point, is don't expect to head off on a 4 day trip right off the bat. You need to get them used to it.

We travel a lot, and my son got used to being in a car seat for long periods of time right from birth. For a while we were using a DVD player to keep him happy, and then that broke, and we never replaced it. He was about 3 at that time, and he's been fine ever since. He seems fairly content now to look out the window, or ask us millions of questions, or sleep. But, the longest trip we've taken recently was 5 hours, so if we go for more than that, we might need a DVD again. We do try to plan our travel time around his sleep schedule to make things easier, but I'm happy he doesn't need to be glued to a DVD player during a trip. I was really not liking the idea of him missing all the sights outside the car. It would be fine if you could choose to use it for certain periods, but the problem is, with kids, if he knows you have one, he's going to want it.

I also use the "going on an adventure" line with him. He likes Dora and Diego, and so this seems to work really well. It also works well for hikes. We've gone for a 5k hike, and he runs about half the way. Not bad for a little kid. The key is to let him have fun, get dirty, and explore. I think most kids love to explore, but don't get much chance due to an overprotective society. "Don't get dirty!" "Don't run, you'll trip and fall!" "Don't touch the frog!"

I think your bigger hurdle is your wife. She has to buy into the trip.

Actually, I started off going on a few day wheeling trips with my boy while my wife stayed home. I took some video of how much he enjoyed it, and now she's into it too.

[LaOutbackTrail]

The funnest part has been teaching my little girl to potty in the woods... thats why I bring her momma along.:)

My youngin is almost 4 and our trips have been held together by snacks, toys, and letting her get away with a little fun. I give her my camera sometimes and I end up getting a couple fun pictures out of it. Thankfully, she has been a great travel partner, especially when its just the two of us!

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs002.snc3/10941_545368585441_62002887_31994792_7303058_n.jpg


http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs195.snc3/20268_550959860481_62002887_32147725_5900010_n.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/glowingeenklr650/Vehicles/P9270267.jpg

[R_Lefebvre]

Oh, and toys... I have a set of plastic construction vehicles which are dedicated just to camping. So, they are "new" to him any time we go out, which makes a big difference. I also like to buy little kiddy size versions of the camping equipment. He has a tiny sleeping bag, tiny folding chair, etc. Kids love kid sized things.

[LaOutbackTrail]

Oh, and toys... I have a set of plastic construction vehicles which are dedicated just to camping. So, they are "new" to him any time we go out, which makes a big difference. I also like to buy little kiddy size versions of the camping equipment. He has a tiny sleeping bag, tiny folding chair, etc. Kids love kid sized things.

Yeh, meant to mention the same thing above....

Besides what you mentioned there, being able to play with "daddy's toys" makes a big difference too. You can see she has my binoculars and in another pic she has a little walking stick, just like daddy. Its your kid, you should know what makes them smile!

[pskhaat]

...going to Canyonlands and hitting elephant hill or the maze district for 3 or 4 days

Personally recommend Needles & Elephant Hill area over Maze for children. The hikes are smaller, the travel is less and there are a few kid-cool things to do.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26709&p=388406


She brought up the thought that sitting in the rig for 4-5 hours to get there and then while you are there sitting in the rig throughout the day, and sitting and sitting and sitting, doesn't sound like a good time.She's correct. It is grossly painful, but have to break it up.


says that the boys won't care about the scenery, that they are too young. She is correct again. The destinations and stops and playing will be remembered.


Do they handle all the driving well? Is it like pulling teeth and more of a headache than it is worth.Sometimes.


1. Try to go with another family with similarly aged kids.
4. Bring toys that you think are a waste of space, ask Pskhaat about the priceless dump trucks.


Oh, and toys... I have a set of plastic construction vehicles which are dedicated just to camping. So, they are "new" to him any time we go out, which makes a big difference.

We carry around 3 plastic dump trucks that are ONLY used when in the bush. YMMV:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26709&p=388950

http://xepoch.com/mud/resize.cgi/480/480/xepoch.com/mud/camping/DSC01214.JPG

[EMrider]

I am dying to get out on some good back country adventures, I really want to have those memories and enjoy the great outdoors with my two young boys and my wife. My boys are 1.5yrs and 3.5 yrs.

I brought up the idea to the wife about going to Canyonlands and hitting elephant hill or the maze district for 3 or 4 days, (I've been and really loved it) and didn't get an enthusiastic reply. She brought up the thought that sitting in the rig for 4-5 hours to get there and then while you are there sitting in the rig throughout the day, and sitting and sitting and sitting, doesn't sound like a good time. She thinks that the boys wouldn't have any fun because they would be strapped in their car seats "the whole trip".
I told her that it's about the journey, the scenery, the memories. She doesn't want to go on a trip to be stuck in a car for 4 days, and says that the boys won't care about the scenery, that they are too young.

My question is HOW DO YOU DO IT?

I have seen tons of pics on here of you guys out and about with your little ones, and your wives. Do they handle all the driving well? Is it like pulling teeth and more of a headache than it is worth. Help me out here. I don't want to resort to leaving them behind and heading out with the guys for 3-4 days cause that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms at home.

Thanks in advance.

I had similar conversations with my wife a few years ago when my kids were about the same age. Cutting through the fog, these 'concerns' were largely my wife's aversion to the sort of 'adventures' I enjoy. Fast forward 3-4 years, and all is well. I decided to take the kids camping in the backcountry solo with a friend or two and their kids. A dad and kids adventure. As expected, the dads and kids all had a great time with no issues. We drove for hours over rough roads and camped primitive. We got very dirty, stayed up late, ate smores, fished, hiked, shot the target rifle and explored cool areas. My kids are hooked and can't wait for the next trip. My wife is happy too because she likes to see us have these experiences and does not want to stand in the way. She likes to see me and the kids escape once in awhile, but just isn't a camper herself.

The advice given on how to keep kids happy is excellent. But you may also have to consider giving it a try solo (ideally with another family) to see how things work out with the kids. If you can pull that off without annoying your wife, give it a go. It also creates a bit of an incentive to do things with your wife without the kids.....which is a good thing too.

[alaskaboy]

X4 on getting to camp early.

Don't make it just about the driving (slab that is).

mnb

[wagner_joe]

Start now. We never had a DVD player. Drew's been off roading since in the womb. We went to Camp Jeep in Colorado (1997) when Mandy was six months prego..

We didn't wheel for the first 13-14 months, but once Mandy felt secure with his neck strength (personal issue) we went with friends. He traveled well. Slept on many a trips once we left pavement. He usually fell asleep once the jeep started rocking. We didn't do the hour breaks but bringing the correct distraction was always required. As he got older he decided to bring his own gear. Now that he's 12, well he packs quite well. He brings his DVD for highway driving to keep himself entertained. But he usually looks up where we're going and has an agend on what he wants to do on the trip.

We've usually shot for a edu-trip, so Wheeling to a Museum, ghost town, lake, or say train trip (silverton) gives them something to be patient for..
Lunch was usually an hour or two so everyone could explore throw rocks, dig in the dirt, etc.. Just overall relax, a simple trip that you could do in 4 hours might take 6 or so depending on breaks.

We have only one poor memory of Drew in the jeep is was a rocky section of trail, he wasn't asleep that day and i think teething, so it was an eject the wife and screaming kid (our group was large that day) and they walked along side the jeep (we were in 4 low) till we could pick up speed.

The wifes gotta be on board and although she might go for the trip, she might not like things like Elepant hill so take it in stride. Comfort is a two way street if you want to stay married.. :sombrero:

Start with day trips and work your way up (and the entire family) to comfort into the overnight/longer trips. We now own a Horizon from AT due to our love of trips and getting away from it all. It's been 12 years of work though on everyones part..

Enjoy your travels..

[swanyo]

I think the kids are the easy part as long as you are willing to make extended stops to explore and do kid stuff. We started with the DVD, but have weaned them off. Now its mostly travel games, good conversation, music and plenty of snacks.

The wife was tougher, making a clean camp environment meant allot. If she can feel clean at the end of the day, she is in a good mood. Sleeping comfort is also very important. Sleeping with sheets, quilt, pillows and being able to snuggle have made a big difference. The days of opening a cold can of pork & beans and calling it a day are over!

Also since she is in charge of documenting our travels with pictures, she is kept occupied with capturing special moments of our trip. Taking pictures of the scenery, kids and dog has given her something to do while I drive.

I'm also a big fan of setting up camp early, the kids get to play the wife can read a book in the hammock while I'm setting up camp. With good food and a camp fire, and some relaxation the wife feels like it is a true vacation for her and not a chore. I still have to give her a resort vacation every year but she enjoys the outdoors more and more. I think the main thing is to be flexible.

[tdesanto]

Here's a good resource for quality info.

http://www.adventureparents.com/

[Moody]

I've found that a little bit of 'prep work' before the trip is essential as well. I will usually ask my kids if they want to go camping, sleep in a sleeping bag, play in the dirt, go hiking, exploring etc. to get them excited about it. I am heading to Moab next weekend, and I have my son telling me every day how many days until we go to Moab.

We also have a dedicated bin for each kid to put their toys and such in. They feel like they are a part of the packing and preparation. We call it their 'job' for the trip-to get their bin packed with toys they want to bring. Even Olivia, who is small still gets the idea quick from her brother as to the routine.

FWIW, my kids are 5 and 2. Both have been camping since ~3 months of age.

[R_Lefebvre]

An important point, I find, is that when you stop for any time, you gotta let the kids out. Even if it takes a few extra minutes to get them back in their seats. (And that's my wife, 5 months prego at the time).

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/R_Lefebvre/IMG_3848.jpg

So while the big boys are playing in the mud (rescuing some ATVers)

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/R_Lefebvre/IMG_3856.jpg

The little boys can play in the mud too.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/R_Lefebvre/IMG_3872.jpg

And case in point, my wife and I were discussion our vacation plans this year at dinner, I asked her if she wanted to go to the Land Rover weekend again this year. Phil immediately exclaimed he "wanted to go to the Land Rover Weekend!"

[Ford Prefect]

Some great thoughts in this thread, of course...

I think now, for you, the big thing will be getting your wife to read this entire thread. Do not ambush her with it, and let her find out for herself if she feels like this is a possibility.

My wife and I have taken our child (and one on the way) on every 4x4 trip we have taken. He goes everywhere, and he enjoyed riding in the jeep. He actually really liked my CJ-7 because he can see out better than my wife's jeep Grand Cherokee.


Also, how many times have you gone down and done rattle snake trail? If you have not done it it is REALLY close to your home, just go down redwood road to Lehi, and take a right. (look on rockymountainextreme.com for dirrections)

Also American Fork Canyon is really close as well, and a good trip.

My wife and I stay at the LAZY LIZZARD when in Moab, it is a hostle, and only going to cost you about 30 bucks a night for your entire family. (just know that a hostle is not a hilton, but it is better, and warmer, than a tent.)

I can also tell you that my son has driven to Idaho countless times, as well as Colorado, Arizona, Las Vegas, and Wyoming, including yellow stone (LOTS of driving) for a week, and Grand Canyon (fair bit of driving too) for a week.

Good luck, and mostly HAVE FUN! If it is something you have to force then take it a bit easier next trip.

Brian (down in Provo)

[xcmountain80]

Women and gentlemen, I cannot put a value on the information posted. I have a 7.5 mo and am excited to get her out. While I realize she will not appreciate the things I show her right now it's seasoning for longer trips and treks. I truly feel excited about being a parent and look forward to the adventures ahead. My little one had a passport at 5wks of age and has already been to Canada (land of mommy).

A

[Old#7]

Guys, Thanks for all the great info. I have been sharing it with my wife in bits and pieces. I agree that a few local trips might be in order. I can't get ahead of myself and need to start off slowly. Please keep the ideas coming, This is great info and I am sure I am not the only one who will benefit from what is shared here.

Thanks.

[R_Lefebvre]

Just stumbled on this last night. Haven't read through much of it yet.

http://www.overlandwithkids.com/

I should say, that I haven't and am hesitant to take a child less than 12mo on any kind of real off-road. Their neck just isn't strong enough, and they're in a rear-facing seat so you can't see what's going on. We have a 4mo right now, so this summer will be a bit iffy. We'll likely leave Mommy and baby at camp while Phil and I go off on the trails.

Also important, the kids can learn valuable lessons early on:

http://www.youtube.com/user/rlefebvre42#p/a/u/1/4d7wTgtz2p0

[Fergie]

At 9.5 months old, we took our little girl on a 10 day camping trip through CA with us, and she absolutely loved it.

She loved the food:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/bergferg/Farewell%20CA/FarewellCaliforniaJune2009017.jpg

Loved the vehicle:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/bergferg/Farewell%20CA/FarewellCaliforniaJune2009133.jpg

Since she wasnt walking, she was in the carrier a lot, but didnt mind it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/bergferg/Farewell%20CA/FarewellCaliforniaJune2009109.jpg

And she took her first steps in Yosemite:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/bergferg/Farewell%20CA/FarewellCaliforniaJune2009129.jpg

Just plan extra time in the day for stops and rests. Plan your driving around their nap time...free quiet time!

We have skipped DVDs and just engage the kiddo the best we can.

Have a blast, be cautious, but not too much so.

[cellularsteve2]

Great post everyone. We just had our first and he is now 3 months old. We are planning our first weekend getaway next month. We will go to a state or county campground within 2 hours of home that has some facilities. Then if that goes well we will go to the backcountry which I prefer.

steve:victory:

[modelbuilder]

This also might be an option for you. Coming from someone who works with kids all day but does not have any of his own this is what I can only dream of on some days.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Aci0P5xAyiE/SHTbFkMt32I/AAAAAAAAAnk/5FoIpax4Zcg/s400/in%2Bcar%2Btied%2Bdown.jpg

[davidv]

All really good ideas. Here are a few others that have worked for us traveling with our 4 and 2 year old.

- Leave at 5 am if your kids will sleep in their car seats. By breakfast time you have 3 hours of driving out of the way.

- Water. A lake or river is endless entertainment for any kid.

- Have a treat drawer. We have dedicated drawer in the camper full of treats they don't get at home.

Bottom line is we have discovered that kids are natural campers and end up teaching us how to relax in the wilderness.

[nwoods]

What an awesome photo!




And she took her first steps in Yosemite:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/bergferg/Farewell%20CA/FarewellCaliforniaJune2009129.jpg

[The Adam Blaster]

My wife has been hesitant to go tent-camping with our little guy, I think it mostly has to do were her being somewhat of a germa-phobe. lol

Her concerns are centered around bathing and changing him, as well as his safety while we sleep. (Him getting his own little area, but we still able to closely monitor him.)
And also, I snore - BADLY.
I have sleep apnea so if we are all in the same room, I need to have the CPAP machine on, or the little guy doesn't sleep, which means none of us sleep. lol
On our first camping trip, I might have to sleep in the truck, and let them stay in the tent together. :wings:

The road trip part is fine for all of us, he likes looking out the window, and I had downloaded some of his kid-vids onto my netbook, and he gets engrossed in those for 30-minute stretches. Between a nap, a vid, a snack, he was able to stay in his car seat for 4 hour stretches last summer.
I think he was already a little bit used to staying put, my wife's parents live an hour away, and we have driven there at least once a month pretty much since he was born.
Like others have mentioned, start taking short trips early in their life, and they will be great.

[Tucson T4R]

........And also, I snore - BADLY.
I have sleep apnea so if we are all in the same room, I need to have the CPAP machine on, or the little guy doesn't sleep, which means none of us sleep. lol
On our first camping trip, I might have to sleep in the truck, and let them stay in the tent together. :wings:........

I picked up a 12VDC adaptor for my CPAP machine and use it when my wife or Son join me. I skip it when camping alone but the CPAP keeps me from snoring and let's my tent companions get some good sleep. :sombrero:

[Moody]

One thing to consider when camping with infants or very young children is bringing along a small inflatable pool to use inside your tent. Make your child's bed in it, and it provides a 'nest' of sorts that helps them feel more safe and comfortable. Think of it as a portable crib. You can even include some of their favorite stuffed friends to make it feel like home.

[R_Lefebvre]

My wife has been hesitant to go tent-camping with our little guy, I think it mostly has to do were her being somewhat of a germa-phobe. lol

Her concerns are centered around bathing and changing him, as well as his safety while we sleep. (Him getting his own little area, but we still able to closely monitor him.)


Bah, kids these days need to eat more dirt. 100 years ago, kids were born in a barn, nobody was alergic to anything, etc. ;)

Personally, I feel safer with my kids eating dirt out in the woods than from the floor of the daycare, public washrooms, etc.

The sleeping thing is an interesting point. We have yet to figure that one out for our littlest one. The inflatable pool is an interesting idea, but I haven't seen one that small? I was going to think about having my wife make up some kind of mini-crib out of foam and fabric. It would sit at the foot of our bed.

We used to have (and don't laugh) an Eddie Bauer play yard thing that had a tent cover over it. It was good for outside to keep the bugs off, but my wife destroyed it one day trying to pack it away...

[MTDuke]

Prior to kids, my wife and i enjoyed a freewheeling outdoor lifestyle in Montana. Every weekend we were in the driftboat or raft fishing or hitting whitewater, fall was bird hunting with pointing dogs, deer hunting to fill the freezer, duck hunting, skiing...you get the point.

With our first child (now 4 years old) we decided that if we wanted to preserve this lifestyle we needed to set ourselves up to take kids with the amenities they need and keep us sane. A blizzard in a tent is no fun, cold, wet kids are unhappy. Cooking, warming milk for the baby (#2 is 6 months) etcc...

We had a one ton truck and our solution was to buy a Lance pickup camper. We got the smallest model possible so it is not so cumbersome on backroads (no 4-wheeling though). Hot water for baths, fridge, toilet, furnace, and yep.....flatpanel TV for Disney. There was a time when I would have spoken against the TV, but in all honesty its a lifesaver for bedtime movies or days when outside play is limited. Also, a small honda generator is good for boondocking which is our preference.

We have great family times. Wife and I trade off outside the camper chasing game or fishing while the other watches kids She has a dog, so do I so they both get birds. We have been skiing this winter with our 4 yo...one stays in the warm camper with the baby while the other skis with the older kiddo. Most places we go we see no one until we decide we want to.

Its the most fun I can imagine (well, maybe bonefishing on Andros....).

Without the camper I think this would be hard. Kids dont have much patience so having camp setup wherever you stop is great. Kids get dirty real fast. We bring 4 changes of clothes per day. Someone mentioned toys...we bring bikes and tractors and shovels in our dog trailer. Kids get showered before bed and sometimes during the day. Lots of food, lots of drinks.

From my lurking, I'm sure some on here are less maintenance than we are. But, we are 4 season heavy activity outdoor people and with small kids a lot of what we like to do would be impossible without a wide range of features.

[nwoods]

Lots of good advice. I agree with pretty much all of it, particularly the point about having your wife read this thread and some of the sites referenced also. My family started camping when my daughter was about 2, my son was 4 and my wife, who had camped as a girl but not since then. Now we set out with her in charge of events as Mom instead of as just a child participant. It was a an eagerly anticipated moment for me. As luck would have it, it rained almost none stop for 7 straight days. The end result....they loved it! It's all about attitude....and preparation.

Travel, Camping, Overlanding, and Trail Runs are distinctly different activities when it comes to families. You pack differently, prepare differently, and plan differently.

As Dad, it's your job to listen. The stamina of others with you will dictate. Hiking almost to the destination is just as good as getting there, because the key is that you are out hiking with your family, right? Don't over due it. Keep things fresh, that will keep the attitudes positive, and that keeps the memories of the trip positive, and that leads to more trips.

Before you know it, you will go from this:
http://www.woodsfamily.cc/old/West/2004/yosemite/images/Y04-055.jpg

To this:
http://nwoods.smugmug.com/Family/Travel/Hwy-395-on-the-4th-of-July/IMG2764-1600/585338589_xZZE5-XL.jpg

I am very fortunate to have married a brilliant mother. My wife makes travel fun for all of us, and is super intuitive on the kid's needs and moods. It is my job to listen to her. I am working on it :-)

People have mentioned taking frequent breaks. The key really is "cadence". There is a rhythm for these different activities. My house is about 11 hours to Moab, typically a one day straight shot, but with the family, it's a two day trek. We will stop and go into restaurants, hit a few attractions/museums along the way, and quite frankly, enjoy the trip a lot more. Bring pillows, real ones.
http://www.woodsfamily.cc/old/West/2004/yosemite/images/Y04-010.jpg

Bring stuffed animals, bring Magnadoodles, bring Madlibs, and all sorts of stuff like that. I personally don't use the DVD player much, only on really long trips (like from CA to Colorado). Its more important to me to get them all playing with creativity, or looking outside, or singing, etc... Everything is a learning opportunity.

On the Trail, the kids need to get out of the vehicle frequently. There are typically a lot of opportunities for that. It doesn't take much time to unstrap them and put them back in, as long as they obey you and come running back to the vehicle when it's time to round everyone back up. This is important!

When Camping, kids love to get dirty, and often very wet! Bring lots of spare clothes, and spare shoes. Bring BooBoo candy. Teach them about which bugs are fun to play with, and what to avoid. For my kids, the challenge was to teach them to leave spiders alone. They are fascinated by them, but can't distinguish from safe or harmless varieties. They are all off limits because of this. It is really important to lay down the law on stuff like this, and there needs to be penalties if they "forget". With a few carefully established and heavily reinforced rules, you can relax so much more and just let them wander and play!

Letting your kids play with frogs, squirrels, lady bugs, dragonflies etc...that's the magic right there. Climbing rocks, playing in streams, falling into those streams and getting muddy is what its all about. That's what they will remember.

http://nwoods.smugmug.com/Family/Camping-in-Coyote-Flats/CoyoteFlats-37/169531719_X4ZEU-L-1.jpg

Keep them comfortable. Warm sleeping bags are a must. The kids will be very adaptable, and after a full day of play (or travel) will sleep hard after an hour or so of running around like Tasmanian Devils, but pamper the wife! Listen to her needs when it comes to comfort. Those expensive sleeping bags are worth it! Make sleeping in the tent fun. Most families don't sleep together in the house, so a shared tent experience can be special.

http://www.woodsfamily.cc/old/West/2004/mammoth/tent/images/tent_fun-12.jpg
http://nwoods.smugmug.com/Jeep-Adventures/Trail-Runs/Mojave-Trail-Fall-2009/ExPo-Mojave-2009-42/697223133_BHTeR-L.jpg

Be sensitive to altitude. I love life above 10,000 feet, but altitude hits everyone differently, and at different times. On one trip to 11,000 feet, I was hurting that first day with massive headache. Second day, all was well, third day in, my daughter succumbed to altitude sickness, announced by throwing up on MY sleeping bag. You need to adjust your itinerary to these things. Instead of fishing or hiking, she rehydrated and slept most of the day. Fourth day was a blast for both of us. Learn to deal with this.
http://nwoods.smugmug.com/Family/Camping-in-Coyote-Flats/CoyoteFlats-41/169531844_Gvusx-L-1.jpg

Prepare for the cold. Bring a lot more than you can imagine using, and be thankful when you have it!
http://nwoods.smugmug.com/Family/Travel/Overland-Expo-2009/OvExpo-20090425-29/523252687_WALus-L.jpg

Travel with other families if possible, or at least with other parents that have kids, even if the kids are not along with. They will understand your pace so much more!

Not too long ago we did the Mojave Trail with a few others with kids all within about 5 years of age to each other. That is a long day of pavement, followed by 3 days of constant trail driving. A recipe for cabin fever with kids for sure. They loved it, want to go back. The key is to let them play. Rocks are plentiful, and they never tire of climbing them. On that particular trip, we let the kids play with the radios so that they could talk from car to car, and we were treated to a very interesting "radio theater" version of Star Wars. The other parents in the group enjoyed it in a wry, understanding sort of humor, and the non-parents were amazed and befuddled by it, but were gracious enough to tolerate it :-)
http://nwoods.smugmug.com/Family/Travel/Road-Trip-2007/RoadTrip2007-080/191482108_czFqg-L.jpg


I will echo the repeat comment others have stated. Start now, get out and do it. You will not regret it.

http://www.woodsfamily.cc/old/West/2004/yosemite/images/Y04-033.jpg

[bigreen505]

One thing to consider when camping with infants or very young children is bringing along a small inflatable pool to use inside your tent. Make your child's bed in it, and it provides a 'nest' of sorts that helps them feel more safe and comfortable. Think of it as a portable crib. You can even include some of their favorite stuffed friends to make it feel like home.

Brilliant.

[LaOutbackTrail]

This thread inspired a discussion with my wife last night...

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39164

[john101477]

Thanks for bringing this up, I like to take the wife and kid places (paved) but sometimes it really just back fires on me. I have been trying to figure out how to take them on a back country trip for some time now.

[The Adam Blaster]

Bah, kids these days need to eat more dirt. 100 years ago, kids were born in a barn, nobody was alergic to anything, etc. ;)

Personally, I feel safer with my kids eating dirt out in the woods than from the floor of the daycare, public washrooms, etc.

The sleeping thing is an interesting point. We have yet to figure that one out for our littlest one. The inflatable pool is an interesting idea, but I haven't seen one that small?

I agree with you about wilderness dirt VS. the floor in a department store or whatever he picked up and decided to eat when we were shopping last weekend! lol
He does have peanut allergies though, so we do actually have to be pretty cautious about it.

With the inflatable pool... The smallest I've probably seen is about 4 foot in diameter. Maybe you could pinch off some of the sidewall so it wouldn't actually inflate all of the material, and take up less space?
Not sure, but worth looking into...

[The Adam Blaster]

I picked up a 12VDC adaptor for my CPAP machine and use it when my wife or Son join me. I skip it when camping alone but the CPAP keeps me from snoring and let's my tent companions get some good sleep. :sombrero:

So do you have a 2nd battery that you pull into the tent?
Or do you run a cord to the vehicle?

I have been trying to think of what would work best for camping... I've been leaning toward getting a small RV. Just call me "gramps". lol

[The Adam Blaster]

MTDuke, you seem to have a really good system worked out, and starting the kiddo's so early you're going to have a lot of great vacations with them in he years to come!

[R_Lefebvre]

I just happened to be in Toy'R'Us at lunch, looking for a mobile or crib-fish-tank-thing, and saw they have these little mini-crib things intended to help you share your bed safely with the baby. Little padded thingy. Might work. But it's not Expo-chic. ;)

One thing I have to figure out. Rooftop tent, midnight feedings, and baby bottles. What the heck do we do?

I think the trick might be what my wife does for trips sometimes. Sterilize a bottle and fill it with boiled water, but NO powder. It keeps for a long time. When you need it, drop the powder in, give it a shake and go.

[john101477]

All we have really done is day trips but here is a cpl of images from them. My daughter 15mo and wife.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/john101477/people/_DSC0057.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/john101477/people/_DSC0182.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/john101477/people/CastleCrages005.jpg

[The Adam Blaster]

Rob, try a thermos with the boiled water in your RTT.
You could probably put it in a little lunch cooler, or soft-sided cooler bag and it will stay hot/warm for quite a long time. ;)

I think having to dispose of a smelly diaper would be the worst in an RTT, because I wouldn't want that little specimen sharing the inside of our tent when we would be trying to sleep. hahaha
I know I'd be the one climbing down that ladder to distance it from us in the middle of the night, likely only in my underwear... :REOutIceFishing:
(That's the closest emoticon I could find to make me look like I was cold.)

[shellb]

This is a really great discussion with some awesome points and tips...I love this place!

[MTDuke]

MTDuke, you seem to have a really good system worked out, and starting the kiddo's so early you're going to have a lot of great vacations with them in he years to come!


Were pretty happy with our setup, keeps us on the road. It may be a bit less adventurous traveling (although we stay off the beaten path) but until our kids are older I think its the ticket. Great topic, love thinking about these times when its been a VERY LONG winter in Montana!

This kid was head to toe volcanic black soil prior to a shower. The dirt around Yellowstone is sticky stuff.

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/MTDUKE_01/CIMG3270.jpg

Pheasant hunting in November in MT. New baby but mom shot her limit and the dogs were happy!
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/MTDUKE_01/CIMG3503.jpg

Moms turn in the duck blind this winter. She left me milk and a warm camper and took the boat across the lake to the blind I built over the summer.

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/MTDUKE_01/CIMG3476.jpg

Picture of my home made dog/adv trailer. Not near a fancy as I have seen on this site but it has 40 gallons of water plumbed, dog box, top lifts on gas struts, and we can take all the bigwheels and john deer tractors the boy needs plus bikes and hunting gear (and gen, chairs, wood, coolers, etc..).

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/MTDUKE_01/CIMG2171.jpg

Our family cannot wait for spring!

[LaOutbackTrail]

One thing I have to figure out. Rooftop tent, midnight feedings, and baby bottles. What the heck do we do?

I think the trick might be what my wife does for trips sometimes. Sterilize a bottle and fill it with boiled water, but NO powder. It keeps for a long time. When you need it, drop the powder in, give it a shake and go.


We would do that. We would just use whatever water we normally would use (in other words not boiled) often bottled or filtered tap water. Our kiddo didnt mind the cool, not warm water. Scoop your powder, shake, feed! Pretty safe in my opinion.

[MTDuke]

We would do that. We would just use whatever water we normally would use (in other words not boiled) often bottled or filtered tap water. Our kiddo didnt mind the cool, not warm water. Scoop your powder, shake, feed! Pretty safe in my opinion.

Temp was (is) essential for both our kids with milk. Moms got everything needed although I realize not everyone can breastfeed. In our case, when my wife is going to be gone for an extended period we have frozen milk that she previously pumped and I just use hot water to heat it up.

[LaOutbackTrail]

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/MTDUKE_01/CIMG3476.jpg

Not to nitpick and sorry for being irrelevant to this topic, but, you might otta rethink the criss-crossing of the wader's straps. I slipped into a beaver channel while wood duck hunting a few years ago. Now, I'm a skinny sucker and was borrowing my neighbor's waders, think XL on a medium. Anyways... I was submerged trying to get the criss-crossed straps undone. I think one of the straps managed to get caught on an underwater cypress root. The pressure on them and my struggle put the buckles in a serious bind. I managed to undo them and get up enough for my friend to pull me out of the hole! So yeah. Just saying. Hijack off.

[MTDuke]

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/MTDUKE_01/CIMG3476.jpg

Not to nitpick and sorry for being irrelevant to this topic, but, you might otta rethink the criss-crossing of the wader's straps. I slipped into a beaver channel while wood duck hunting a few years ago. Now, I'm a skinny sucker and was borrowing my neighbor's waders, think XL on a medium. Anyways... I was submerged trying to get the criss-crossed straps undone. I think one of the straps managed to get caught on an underwater cypress root. The pressure on them and my struggle put the buckles in a serious bind. I managed to undo them and get up enough for my friend to pull me out of the hole! So yeah. Just saying. Hijack off.

Good point noted.

[R_Lefebvre]

We would do that. We would just use whatever water we normally would use (in other words not boiled) often bottled or filtered tap water. Our kiddo didnt mind the cool, not warm water. Scoop your powder, shake, feed! Pretty safe in my opinion.

I wonder about actually keeping it in the sleeping bag, so it stays warm? Nights can be cooler up here, so the water might be too cold.

[LaOutbackTrail]

I wonder about actually keeping it in the sleeping bag, so it stays warm? Nights can be cooler up here, so the water might be too cold.

Wouldnt hurt to even warm it up a bit and then leave it in the bed with the baby!

[evldave]

Picture of my home made dog/adv trailer. Not near a fancy as I have seen on this site but it has 40 gallons of water plumbed, dog box, top lifts on gas struts, and we can take all the bigwheels and john deer tractors the boy needs plus bikes and hunting gear (and gen, chairs, wood, coolers, etc..).

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/MTDUKE_01/CIMG2171.jpg

Our family cannot wait for spring!

How do the dogs handle being in the trailer? I've been thinking about this myself. My wife's got mild allergy to the dogs (and me too:sombrero:) and I've been thinking about hauling them in the trailer instead of inside my rig. I'm mostly concerned about all that bouncing - way worse in the trailer...

[R_Lefebvre]

I've actually been thinking of going on a little canoe trip with my boy. Just overnight, and just paddle far enough to say we did. Test it out. A little father-son bonding. I'm pretty anxious to do it, would like to it in the spring. After the snow is gone, but before the bugs come. There's a little window there...

I'm just not sure how Phil would handle being outside in cool air for that length of time. I have good warm clothes, down jacket, etc... But he's just got, you know, your typical crappy snow suit from Walmart. Not going to spend a ton on good stuff for a growing boy who won't get to use it *that* much.

He has a decent little sleeping bag, and I can probably just have him in with me. No problem there. Just not sure how he'd respond to being outside during the day in ~50F temps. We took him downhill skiing for the first time last weekend, and he got cold pretty fast. But that was about 20F with a good wind chill.

Any ideas on that?

Also, what about a baby in a canoe. We'd still like to be able to use the canoe a bit, not overnights, but just some paddling during the day. I'm a pretty experienced canoeist, kayaker and swimmer. I don't think I've ever tipped a canoe in my life (that wasn't on purpose). And we have an infant life-jacket. But, the thought of the first few moments of panic if the boat went over... terrifying.

What's the youngest you guys have used a boat with an infant?

[LaOutbackTrail]

What's the youngest you guys have used a boat with an infant?

Walking.

[MTDuke]

evldave,

They do great. Many die hard bird hunters use designated dog trailers. Keeps the mess out of the truck, if they are muddy or stink, get skunked, eat something bad........all those less redeeming dog issues are solved. I wrestled with how big to make the dog box in the trailer and decided the smaller the better as we often travel and stay in cold to very cold conditions. We put 3 Brittanies in that front compartment and they stay warm with old horse blankets added. I have a water tap located on the fender draining a 40 gallon tank that sits right behind the compartment. Having a large water supply is nice too.

Bumpy roads have not been an issue, I do feel bad once in a while about road dust but I close the vents and they do fine.

We have a real issue when I'm pulling a boat or raft and cannot take the dog trailer. We got used to not having them in the truck really fast.

[R_Lefebvre]

Yeah... that's about what we did with Phil. We'll probably scope it out in the pool. The local YMCA has a "theraputic pool". 3-4 feet deep, and warm. We're teaching Phil to swim there, and have brought Elise in when she was about 2 months. Holding her, obviously. She has no problem with it. I might try letting her float with a lifejacket. See how it goes.

I've heard that babies have an instinct not to inhale if their face is in water but... is that true?

[LaOutbackTrail]

Yeah... that's about what we did with Phil. We'll probably scope it out in the pool. The local YMCA has a "theraputic pool". 3-4 feet deep, and warm. We're teaching Phil to swim there, and have brought Elise in when she was about 2 months. Holding her, obviously. She has no problem with it. I might try letting her float with a lifejacket. See how it goes.

I've heard that babies have an instinct not to inhale if their face is in water but... is that true?

Our daughter fell into a pool on her first birthday. :snorkel: Try it in the bathtub.... and only takes a cup of water to do the test. Pouring it down her face that is.

[MTDuke]

What's the youngest you guys have used a boat with an infant?

This is a real issue for us since we fish out of a driftboat or raft and fishing is #1 on our list. Although I'm an experienced oarsman, lots can go wrong in moving water so we held off until our son was 4 (last summer) and we select rivers that minimize the chances of something bad happening (slow, shallow). Our baby will not see the boat until then either as much as it pains us.

This is another good reason to travel with another family. We often trade off with friends so everyone gets some drifts in and rotates staying with the kids. Another plus is that someone can run shuttles and cook while the others are on the river.

A canoe? Your much better than I am, I have yet to meet one I havent tipped!

[The Adam Blaster]

Rob, for your son when it's cooler/colder out...
Go to Costco and get a box of the hand and foot warmer packs, I think they are like $20.00 for a whole box of 40-50 of them. They might not have them now, because their stocking strategy is pretty seasonal.
If you can't find them at Costco, most outdoors stores will have them for sale in singles, but they cost more per unit.
You can load up his pants pockets, and jacket pockets and he can rub them on his legs/arms if he gets chilly.

[pskhaat]

I've taken 'em each bay (not open water) kayaking at a little over 12 months IIRC. We're "lucky" I guess to have a pool at our house so the children were exposed quite literally to water very early on a near daily basis.


I've heard that babies have an instinct not to inhale if their face is in water but... is that true?

Anecdote, those (re)actions are only very early-on (<6months?).

I think water safety and knowledge it is very important. Babies tend to sink for some reason, I remember fearing for my wee one's life on Lake Powell one summer, a well-founded fear we should all have. Overbearing? maybe.

[Mr. Leary]

I've heard that babies have an instinct not to inhale if their face is in water but... is that true?

Not just babies. My stepdaughter fell in the pool at 18 months (before she could swim) and she held her breath as she sank. It took me a couple of seconds to get her, and she was shaken, but otherwise completely fine. I darn near had a heart attack.

An interesting tidbit. Newborm babies can swim (maybe not enough to get to the surface, but they doggy paddle). They also make good walking motions when propped up over a treadmill (obviously they cannot support their weight yet, but...). Both of these instincts are gone completely by one month old and do not return until learned. Human babies really go from fetus to infant, back to fetus, then to infant, toddler, etc. Weird stuff. Humans are the only animals that do that.

[R_Lefebvre]

Not just babies. My stepdaughter fell in the pool at 18 months (before she could swim) and she held her breath as she sank. It took me a couple of seconds to get her, and she was shaken, but otherwise completely fine. I darn near had a heart attack.

Huh... we're teaching Phil to swim, and he's swallowed a lot of water! :Wow1:

I wish there was some kinda infant life-raft. Like a floating pod you could put them in that would make sure they don't end up face first in the water. I don't know how good Lifejackets really work at turning them over.

Sounds like the concensus is it's too early. :( I wonder... skirt the shore, 3-4 foot depth?


A canoe? Your much better than I am, I have yet to meet one I havent tipped!

Yeah, nope never. And we started canoeing at about 6 or 8. My parents used to tie the canoe to a tree with a 100 foot rope.

[LaOutbackTrail]

I wish there was some kinda infant life-raft. Like a floating pod you could put them in that would make sure they don't end up face first in the water. I don't know how good Lifejackets really work at turning them over.

On the contrary, there is a life jacket with such function...
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/glowingeenklr650/Vehicles/P9270267.jpg
See the big flap in the back?
Here is this better?
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/glowingeenklr650/Vehicles/P9270284.jpg
Its designed to lift the head up and pretty much put the kiddo on their back... Its pretty cool and we've tested it, it works.

PS- the color of these photos were ruined by having the camera's auto white balance set to like fluorescent......

[matt s]

Children in boats

We took our children as infants on boats all the time (and since I have a 5 month old now, she will go out this summer). Life jackets like the one shown above are a must. Yes they have gone in, one of my boys just after he learned to walk stripped down and ran off the dock before I could stop him. Luckily his older brother was right there and dove in a grabbed him. The little one thought that it was great fun! Dad was not convinced.

Regardless at the infant stage they are always held by an adult and really only in the boat for transport to or from where we are going. We have not taken them rafting or canoeing on the river. But they have been in a variety of boats on the lake with no issue.

None of that matters really, your own comfort level is what will have to guide you.

[The Adam Blaster]

Kids and water... Here's a good story about me:

I don't even remember this, but my mom just told me the story at Christmas time.
Our family went camping at one of those RV campgrounds when I was young, you know those ones that are basically a farmer's field? :rolleyes:
Anyways, we pulled into the camp ground after being stuck in the car for a few hours, and my parents started unbuckling and taking all three of us out of the back seat. I was about 3 years old, brother 5, and sister about 1 at the time.
Well, my bro got taken out first, then me, then my parents had to wrestle with the baby seat my sister was strapped into, apparently this was a bit more work back in the 70's than it is now. lol
Anyways, when they pulled me out of the car, I looked around for about 2.5 seconds and spotted a pool. It was the middle of summer, it was hot, and I must have REALLY wanted to get into that pool because I just pointed, shouted "POOL!!!!" and bolted straight at the wonderful oasis of inground cemented beauty. lol
Well, my brother gave a shout to alert my parents, (several shouts actually "Adam going to poo!!") <-- he wasn't so good with the letter "L" at that age apparently...
My folks were both still struggling with the baby seat in the car, and my dad popped his head out to see what was happening. The pool was about 200 yards from the car, and I was already 3/4 of the way there, in full stride. I was like a little 3 year old bolt of lightning!
And my dad immediately took off after me, but I got to the pool before him, and promptly jumped into the pool with the patented kid variation of a belly flop.
I must have got my speed from my dad, because he was there within seconds and jumped right in after me, yanked me out fully soaked in my clothes, and missing one of my shoes.
I didn't take in much water, coughed a little once I was back on dry land, and was no worse for wear. I'm sure I was feeling quite cooled off at that point, my dad was wet, but not feeling too cool. :D

When I go camping with my own family in the future, the first thing I'm going to do when I get to the campground, BEFORE letting the kids out, is find where that damned pool is!

[anschoo]

good story

[R_Lefebvre]

On the contrary, there is a life jacket with such function...


We have a lifejacket just like that already we used for our boy. I just don't know how well they work to actually flip them over. I don't think I have the guts to test it.

[mesha]

I agree to start them young. Most of my friends can't figure out how we camp so much with little kids. I tell them it is because we go camping with little kids. Your little ones will love it if you let them have fun and get dirty. My kids think that camping is the normal thing to do and it doesn't disrupt the routine because it is part of th routine.

[Uncle Roger]

Before we were married, my wife and I traveled all over the western US & Canada in my '59 Land Rover 109, camping in the back and all. We did some off-highway driving, but not a lot, but we also didn't do a lot of staying-in-hotels kind of traveling either. Then family-stuff-happened and we didn't do much, but then when my oldest son was born, we bought a Land Rover disco and an RTT. Still not a lot of camping for a couple of years, but by the time he was 4 or 5 we had a group I call "the usual suspects" -- other families with kids the same age as ours that we got along with. We all started camping together. Now that my son is 8yo, we're getting into more off-highway stuff along with the car camping. The last two years we've done an annual LR trip in the Mendocino Nat'l Forest in No. California (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm1U8PG5sCQ), but it's just been my oldest and I -- my daughter has had other conflicts. Were it not for that, she, my wife, and my 2yo would have come along.

So, to actually answer your question.... Here's what I recommend.

Start off with car camping close to home. State or county parks are great. Remember, this is for the kids, not you, so don't expect any challenging driving or anything. Let the kids run around, crawl under bushes, dig holes, etc. Leave the electronics at home; there's plenty to do. Look for frogs, slugs, cool sticks.

If at all possible, go with your kids' friends' families. It's amazing to watch a gang of 12 5yo's running around in sync like a school of fish. Also, it's much less work. You watch all the kids when they're near you and other parents watch them when the kids are near them.

This gets the kids used to the outdoors with minimal complaints -- no long drives, no sitting in the car for hours, etc. Do this as much as possible, as often as possible.

After a season or two, depending on how often you go, start heading further afield. Stick to the same type of car camping, but do it further from home so they get used to the drive to get there. Figure out games they can play in the car together on the ride. Again, if you can rope in a few other families (we usually go with about 6 families), even better -- the kids will entertain each other so you can stand around drinking beer and enjoying the scene.

Depending on where you are and who you're going with, you might be able to fit in a few challenges along the way or perhaps as an outing one afternoon for an hour or so. If your wife is really awesome, she may volunteer to stay in camp with younger kids who don't want to go. This year, I let my son ride up front -- a big dieal for him. (http://www.sinasohn.net/notebooks/201004132100.html) I also brought some cheap FRS radios for him and the other kids to use on the trail and in camp. That made a big difference because the kids were chatting away on their radios just like everyone else on their CB's. In fact, at one point, I heard about oncoming motorcyclists from the kids' radio network before I heard about them on the CB!

The important thing is to get started early, but don't just jump in the deep end. Work it out, if you can, to get your four-wheeling in on your own, if you have to, but ease the kids -- and your wife, if necessary -- into it.

[Uncle Roger]

And she took her first steps in Yosemite:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/bergferg/Farewell%20CA/FarewellCaliforniaJune2009129.jpg


Wow! How wonderful is that! Your daughter is so very lucky!

(Had I had any say in it, my kids would have been named Redwood, Tenaya, and either Granite or Tioga.)

[Uncle Roger]

The sleeping thing is an interesting point. We have yet to figure that one out for our littlest one. The inflatable pool is an interesting idea, but I haven't seen one that small? I was going to think about having my wife make up some kind of mini-crib out of foam and fabric. It would sit at the foot of our bed.

I would be *very* hesitant to use a plastic pool for a sleeping area... Maybe I'm overly paranoid, but it just seems like there's too much chance for suffocation (i.e., > 0).

What we've done is just have the baby sleep between us in double sleeping bags zipped together. But we do that at home too, so it's natural for us.

Another option would be to hit the local thrift shop for a pack-n-play that would be just for camping. When the kid outgrows it, donate it back to the thrift shop. (Assuming, of course, it survives your wife.)

[Uncle Roger]

One thing I have to figure out. Rooftop tent, midnight feedings, and baby bottles. What the heck do we do?

I have one of these: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/29291800 -- it keeps coffee hot a long time. If you're using formula, just fill it with hot water before you go to bed and put the power in a baby bottle. (Or however you do it.

Since you probably won't need that much, you might do better with one of these instead: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10167099 (Less air means less cooling, and they're cheaper.)

If you're using breast milk, get a bowl (or maybe a ceramic wine cooler?) and swirl the baby bottle around in the hot water for a minute or so.

[john101477]

reading some of the most recent posts here I thought I would add our last trip and my daughters first full nights of camping. The first time she went I ended up having to bring my wife and girl out at 2 am or so cause she got sick. So this time we went to an established camp ground about an hr or so away. The first night went fairly smooth with Sierra (our daughter) waking up briefly a couple of time and then back to sleep before we could even get up. The second night was not so much fun. Sierra woke up at 3am. We think the wind woke her up and scared her. Now I can count on 1 hand how many times she has slept with us since she was born but it was apparent to my wife and I that she was not going to fall or stay asleep with out us close by, hence she got the center spot on our queen blow up and 2 extra large SlumberJacks. I can safely say I did not sleep after that. We found out Sierra likes to move a lot in her sleep so she won...
I think I posted before our sleep setup for her. Beside the wind it seemed to work well. We went ahead and bought the Kidco pop tent deal off amazon for $60 thats fits in our secondary room space. It has a little self inflated mattress and we put some of her toys in it (she sleeps with her books) and a few blankets top and bottom and she seemed to like it for the most part. Just have to get her used to the wind at night.

[john101477]

And she took her first steps in Yosemite:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/bergferg/Farewell%20CA/FarewellCaliforniaJune2009129.jpg

Thats priceless. We actually left our daughter with grandpa for our Yosemite trip. Sierra was just a little to young to enjoy it and we kind of needed a mini vacation ourselves. Now she gets a kick out of being outside and gets mad when i do not take her out with me.

Here are some pictures of her in the outdoors

[Uncle Roger]

I'm just not sure how Phil would handle being outside in cool air for that length of time. I have good warm clothes, down jacket, etc... But he's just got, you know, your typical crappy snow suit from Walmart. Not going to spend a ton on good stuff for a growing boy who won't get to use it *that* much.
Layers. Put a warm sweater on under the jacket, warm shirt under that... It's been my experience that kids, when interested enough in something, they forget about being cold.


Also, what about a baby in a canoe. We'd still like to be able to use the canoe a bit, not overnights, but just some paddling during the day. I'm a pretty experienced canoeist, kayaker and swimmer. I don't think I've ever tipped a canoe in my life (that wasn't on purpose). And we have an infant life-jacket. But, the thought of the first few moments of panic if the boat went over... terrifying.

Y'know... I was a pretty good canoeist when I was younger. Then I took my (now) wife on an easy canoe trip. You know, get in the boat, float down the river, they pick you up at the end. I told her there was no way we could tip. So of course we did. She panicked about something, I paid attention to her instead of the river and ker-splash. (And, no, she has not yet forgotten it.)

With a baby, I'd be very worried about what the baby was doing. Lying in the bottom of the boat wouldn't be much fun and would likely be quite uncomfortable, given the inevitable water. You can't put him in a car seat -- it would sink. And if the kid is old enough to sit up and move around, they'll almost certainly do their best to fall in.

Mind you, it's your kid and you need to do what you're comfortable with, but I wouldn't even considerate it. (And I'm pretty easy going.) My wife would likely skin me alive just for suggesting it.

[R_Lefebvre]

We did go canoeing last year with our boy. He did his best to try and tip the canoe, but was unsuccessful. ;) I'm really not too worried about it anymore. We've got a nice new canoe waiting for us to pick it up, I'll feel it out. And certainly, we're not the only ones considering this.

http://www.amazon.ca/Cradle-Canoe-Camping-Canoeing-Children/dp/1550462946

[timh]

We have had our daughter out more times in the year and a half since she was born than most people do in 10 years. She has already had 6 camping trips and countless day trips. Don't try too hard to prepare, just get out and experience it, each time you will modify things to make it more comfortable.

We started with a cheapy ground tent, then bought a RTT, then sold that and are awaiting our turbo tent. Tent and sleeping space has proven to be worth it's weight in gold! And right now, toys don't matter one bit, its all about the sticks and rocks and flowers and birds and everything else that amazes her everytime we go out!:wings:

[Nay]

I head out with four, ages 11, 10, 6, and 5. Biggest problem we have is 10/11 year old boys want to be 14, and Mom wants them to be 7 so Dad has to play diplomat from time to time. :ylsmoke:

Start young. Everybody says it and it is true. My four kids take an 8 hour drive to Moab without DVD as a really fun part of the trip, and that's exactly why we go as a family every time.

[john101477]

I head out with four, ages 11, 10, 6, and 5. Biggest problem we have is 10/11 year old boys want to be 14, and Mom wants them to be 7 so Dad has to play diplomat from time to time. :ylsmoke:

Start young. Everybody says it and it is true. My four kids take an 8 hour drive to Moab without DVD as a really fun part of the trip, and that's exactly why we go as a family every time.

:clapsmile
Thats awesome. I think most dads have to play diplomat a little. keeping mom at bay long enough for the kids to have a little fun is part of the experience. keeping mom at bay long enough for you to join in is the trick :victory:

[Nay]

:clapsmile
Thats awesome. I think most dads have to play diplomat a little. keeping mom at bay long enough for the kids to have a little fun is part of the experience. keeping mom at bay long enough for you to join in is the trick :victory:

I'm so grateful to be out exploring that it's all good :coffeedrink:

Elephant Hill...the Joint Trail...big hike for little legs...

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn35/Sottovoce1/DSC_0663.jpg

All's well that ends well...

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn35/Sottovoce1/DSC_0695.jpg

Invertebrates hatching in desert potholes, what could be better?

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn35/Sottovoce1/DSC_0787.jpg

Especially with a killer sunset....

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn35/Sottovoce1/DSC_0808.jpg

Fun for Dad by definition :victory:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn35/Sottovoce1/DSC_0742.jpg

[nwoods]

Great photos Nay!

[JJBiggs]

This is such a great thread. Thanks to all who have posted.

I grew up in the Northeast. Vermont to be exact. I grew up camping and experiencing nature from an early age. My family and I now live in the Southeast and we have two children. My girl is 4 and my boy is presently 5 months. When our girl was 2, we loaded up our Toyota FJ and headed to Great Smoky MT National Park for some camping. Her initiation lasted one night with a 2.5hr ride home (from elevation) with an ear infection. Overall, not a bad trip. It's time to get out again...

I am aching to do so.

[john101477]

Great photos. Nay you dang near have a full house there :) cute family for sure

yeah this is one of my favorite threads as well.

[Nay]

Great photos. Nay you dang near have a full house there :) cute family for sure

Thanks - I use every millimeter of my 80 series with this bunch... :smiley_drive:

[bkrobbie]

Maybe it is my Canadian origins but I didn't hesitate to take my 16 month old daughter canoe camping for six days in the Adirondacks a few summers ago. We got a properly fitted life preserver and had her sitting up front with Mom the entire time (on top of a cheap booster seat we picked up at a Wal Mart along the way) and she loved it - so much so that she routinely fell asleep as we circumnavigated the Saragnac Lakes.

One thing to remember about canoe camping especially is that it is perfect for outings with little ones in many regards. First, it allows you to travel significant distances without fatiguing them or you. They have plenty to look at, can dip their fingers in the water, and we even gave our girl her own miniature paddle, but importantly you're not physically carrying them and not policing them to try to keep them on the trail.

Second, you can carry a ton of stuff. Since both my wife and I have done some pretty serious backcountry camping (Wyoming, Montana, Idaho) we tend to underpack and panic about both weight and bulk. With a canoe you can carry a ton of stuff without much drama, so the extra food, bigger tent, toys, clothes, etc. can make it a pretty luxurious outing.

Kids seem to inherently love water which leads to my final, and obvious, point - when you are canoe camping, you're definitionally camping right beside the water. A typical day would have our girl jump into the lake first thing in the morning, splash around for two nonstop hours while we made breakfast and got ready to move, nap in the canoe while we paddled between 2-4 hours to the next site, and leap into the lake while we set up our new camp.

Every time she made a mess of herself (ie, constantly) we'd just throw her in the water.

We've since added another girl to the mix, so in a few months I will be able to report on how this whole thing works with two of the little monsters running around, but I would echo many of those here in observing that in general it is an enormously positive experience to take the kids camping.

So long as you remember the trip is for them (so, you stop when they want to stop, you eat when they want to eat, you play when they want to play) you'll never regret dragging them into the woods.

[Nay]

Maybe it is my Canadian origins but I didn't hesitate to take my 16 month old daughter canoe camping for six days in the Adirondacks a few summers ago. We got a properly fitted life preserver and had her sitting up front with Mom the entire time (on top of a cheap booster seat we picked up at a Wal Mart along the way) and she loved it - so much so that she routinely fell asleep as we circumnavigated the Saragnac Lakes.

One thing to remember about canoe camping especially is that it is perfect for outings with little ones in many regards. First, it allows you to travel significant distances without fatiguing them or you. They have plenty to look at, can dip their fingers in the water, and we even gave our girl her own miniature paddle, but importantly you're not physically carrying them and not policing them to try to keep them on the trail.

Second, you can carry a ton of stuff. Since both my wife and I have done some pretty serious backcountry camping (Wyoming, Montana, Idaho) we tend to underpack and panic about both weight and bulk. With a canoe you can carry a ton of stuff without much drama, so the extra food, bigger tent, toys, clothes, etc. can make it a pretty luxurious outing.

Kids seem to inherently love water which leads to my final, and obvious, point - when you are canoe camping, you're definitionally camping right beside the water. A typical day would have our girl jump into the lake first thing in the morning, splash around for two nonstop hours while we made breakfast and got ready to move, nap in the canoe while we paddled between 2-4 hours to the next site, and leap into the lake while we set up our new camp.

Every time she made a mess of herself (ie, constantly) we'd just throw her in the water.

We've since added another girl to the mix, so in a few months I will be able to report on how this whole thing works with two of the little monsters running around, but I would echo many of those here in observing that in general it is an enormously positive experience to take the kids camping.

So long as you remember the trip is for them (so, you stop when they want to stop, you eat when they want to eat, you play when they want to play) you'll never regret dragging them into the woods.

Ah, the musings of those who are still playing man to man defense :elkgrin:

[pskhaat]

Ah, the musings of those who are still playing man to man defense :elkgrin:

LOL. Indeed, the 3+ mark is a whole 'nother world, but I will say that and other descriptions of the same are leaning me towards some canoeing even if taking just 2 of the rascals.

[bkrobbie]

Guys - your point is extremely well taken on the problem of swtiching from man to zone, and I frankly have no idea how those of you with broods of three or more do anything inside your houses, let alone outside in the backcountry.

Kind of off topic, but we took our two girls (then 1.5 and 3.5) to Acadia National Park camping for just over a week last summer (stayed at the Seawall campground, highly recommended as it is just far enough off the beaten path to offer a little more privacy) and it rained every single day.

Not just mist, either, but the kind of rain that forced us into town to buy the girls full-body rainsuits. Every morning we got up to the gentle drumming of a thousand fingers of raindrops hitting the fly, put on our raingear, and started the argument about who was responsible for trying to make the coffee.

After the first day, my wife and I panicked, because we saw the forecast for the week (storm system parked over the area for ten days) and were worried the girls would hate being rained on all the time.

Of course, I forgot my own mantra of "kids freak out for water" and predictably the girls loved it. Seawall is a five minute stroll from one of the more dramatic rock beaches, and the tides are enormous (+/- 20 feet) so there are pools full of crabs, mussels, seaweed, snails, starfish, and god knows what else to play with. They would literally spend hours scrambling all over the rocks and splashing into the ocean.

And, at the end of the day, we'd head off to a local lobster shack and let me say this: plunking down a vivid red whole lobster in front of a three year old, mummifying her in a plastic bib, and telling her to do whatever she wants to the thing, makes for quite possibly the best kids meal ever.

The fact that lobster was cheaper than chicken didn't hurt either.

Anyway, just reading this forum and the posts has me really looking forward to this summer's trip, which we have yet to actually plan - we have yet to agree on a destination, so anyone with good tips on where to go in the northeast chime in (we're well-equipped with an '05 Tacoma so we should be able to get just about anywhere within reason).

Further, lessons have been learned and some pretty serious equipment upgrades have taken place: for example, a Brunton Wind River Range is now in my posession, and will replace the single MSR Fireflly we've been using for the past few years - just the thought of the stove, which is incredibly well made, has me drooling into my coffee...

[R_Lefebvre]

We picked up our new canoe on the weekend and got a little bit of time in it. I can't wait to use it to do some "paddle-in" camping to get some privacy, peace and quiet that we just can't get at a car-camping site. It's very true what Robbie wrote about the capacity of the canoe.

We should be able to fit quite a luxurious camping setup into the canoe, and then have an easy paddle to the campsite. In fact, I'm thinking we might even be able to bring our 60lb First-Up dining shelter. I'm actually only concerned about cubic feet, and not weight. We bought a 17' Swift Temagami, with a weight rating of 1100lbs. Indeed, with my wife and I and the two kids, the hull is barely in the water. We actually did a 4-person paddle, me, my brother, my father, and my son so 175, 175, 210, 30lbs for a total of 590lbs and it seemed like the hull was just starting to come into operating range.

We also got to try out the Naya Water Gear Baby PFD, and it's great. We didn't test the floatation, though I'm sure it's good, and I've seen good reports. But it fit well, and is so much more comfortable for a baby to wear. She was perfectly happy with it. Much better than a standard child PFD which ends up around their ears when they sit.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444262 2462&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302701119&bmUID=1274797721732

http://www.swiftcanoe.com/canoe/modern/temagami.htm

[LaOutbackTrail]

Kiddo enjoyed two great hikes this weekend!

Going up to the Lighthouse in Palo Duro Canyon.
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/TerraXpeditions/Palo%20Duro%20Scouting/IMG_2657.jpg

Kiddo enjoying some cool morning air.
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/TerraXpeditions/Palo%20Duro%20Scouting/IMG_2681.jpg

Mommy and kiddo enjoying sunset and campfire.
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/TerraXpeditions/Palo%20Duro%20Scouting/IMG_2701.jpg

"A super gigantic beetle!"
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/TerraXpeditions/Palo%20Duro%20Scouting/IMG_2724.jpg

A 1000ft elevation gain hike. Lots of this.
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/TerraXpeditions/Palo%20Duro%20Scouting/IMG_2737.jpg
This.
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/TerraXpeditions/Palo%20Duro%20Scouting/IMG_2752.jpg
This.
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/TerraXpeditions/Palo%20Duro%20Scouting/IMG_2746.jpg
This.
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/TerraXpeditions/Palo%20Duro%20Scouting/IMG_2761.jpg
This.
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/TerraXpeditions/Palo%20Duro%20Scouting/IMG_2773.jpg
This.
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/TerraXpeditions/Palo%20Duro%20Scouting/IMG_2794.jpg
And This.
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww89/TerraXpeditions/Palo%20Duro%20Scouting/IMG_2796.jpg

[xpdishn]

I'm home sick today and have read all 10 pages. Our kids are 39 and 37 but that didn't stop me from enjoying every post. Thanks to all you parents that understand that getting outdoors with your kids is priceless.

This is my favorite:


At 9.5 months old, we took our little girl on a 10 day camping trip through CA with us, and she absolutely loved it.


And she took her first steps in Yosemite:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/bergferg/Farewell%20CA/FarewellCaliforniaJune2009129.jpg

Just plan extra time in the day for stops and rests. Plan your driving around their nap time...free quiet time!

We have skipped DVDs and just engage the kiddo the best we can.

Have a blast, be cautious, but not too much so.


Thanks alot,

Gary

[john101477]

I'm home sick today and have read all 10 pages. Our kids are 39 and 37 but that didn't stop me from enjoying every post. Thanks to all you parents that understand that getting outdoors with your kids is priceless.
Thanks alot,
Gary

Being home sick is never a good feeling. I know for me, having my dad and his dad take me out on a regular basis really helped to shape my life. I look forward to sharing the same knowledge that was passed to me. It is something I am grateful for every day.

This is my wife and daughter walking down a ridge while I was taking som pictures of the landscape
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/john101477/people/Campbellridge5.jpg

[nwoods]

After the first day, my wife and I panicked, because we saw the forecast for the week (storm system parked over the area for ten days) and were worried the girls would hate being rained on all the time. Of course, I forgot my own mantra of "kids freak out for water" and predictably the girls loved it.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MbUZLM0G8B4/SKNzqBME0AI/AAAAAAAACds/U1zDtOriVOA/s1600/camping%2Bcalvin%2Band%2Bhobbes.jpg