The shoe fits but what caused the blister?

[Overdrive]

I know we have at least one expert shoe fitter on here...

I recently purchased a pair of Danner Hiker Light II hiking boots. Size 13 since they don't make 1/2 sizes after 12. Width B.

They fit like a glove. Feel better than any thing else I've had (I haven't splurged before on quality hikers, though). I think since I have a narrow foot and have always bought the "one width fits all" Made In China stuff, this narrow width really feels right.

I'm new into hiking/long walks. After several very short hikes, all was great. But after a couple 6 mile hikes, I have a large blister on my heel. Soles of both feet feel "hot and tingly" after a long walk. Ouch.

So, is it my softy feet (not used to hiking yet) or a bad fit on the boot?

Thanks

[bucketosudz]

I am no shoe fitter, but it could be a combination of a few things. What were you wearing for socks? Cotton, Wool, Synthetics? This combo can make or break a good experience with hiking. Some of it will be part of the break-in, partially the reason they say to break new boots in gently. Don't want to head out and do a many miles hike in any new boot. That has been my experience anyhow. I can buy a new pair of sneakers that feel like clouds when I leave the store, it is inevitable that if I wear them all day....Poof blisters or sore feet. Given a few wearings they are comfy again. Some of it may be that you are a tenderfoot too! Anyways, I am sure there will be others to follow with better information for you. Cool the feet!

[SunTzuNephew]

Good suggestion. Heel blisters are caused by the heel not fitting securely in the heel cup of the shoe: This can well be because you need a 12.5 and have a 13.

Try different socks. I generally wear a polypropylene liner and a medium weight oversock (I too wear a 13 and need a 12.5 - but extra wide for me). Don't wear cotton socks at all, of course. The poly liner allows the foot to slide, rather than create friction.

You can also attempt lacing a bit differently - a bit tighter down on the instep, with a double pass across the lacing at the point your foot flexes, and then a bit looser on the upper. Or, try an insole (like a Spenco) for a bit of filler in the footbed area.

[Tucson T4R]

My experience has been that boot break in is pretty important. Just ease into it with progressively longer hikes and over time the boots and your feet will become one.

As said above socks are very important. For serious hiking I buy quality synthetic socks designed for hiking that wick the moisture away from your feet. Or you can go old school and wear two layers, one thin silk against your feet and a thicker pair of wool or synthetic on top.

If over time you still have a "hot spot" that seems to always cause you a blister you can go to places like the Summit Hut in Tucson and they can stretch the boot in that area to relieve the pressure point.

And that's about all I know about that. :elkgrin:

[Dennis David]

Neither,

Only preventive care can lesson the chance of a blister. New boots or "soft" feet can only speed the onslaught of a blister. Pay attention to your feet. Read this. (http://www.thewalkingsite.com/blisters.html) Take a look at 2nd skin products by Spenco (http://www.spenco.com/) and "Love Your Feet".

YOU WILL GET BLISTERS

[Overdrive]

I love ExPo. Lots of good suggestions in short order!

I was wearing one pair of thick socks--I think they are wool. I will try the thin synthetic (or silk) liner sock with a thicker outer. Then maybe some sort of insole. Summit Hut here I come.

Giving the feet a rest for now. :smilies27

Thanks guys.

[Lynn]

I've found nylon dress socks work well as liner socks, but I'm a self-proclaimed cheapskate.

[Flounder]

Blisters are the result of moisture building up between the layers of skin on your feet. This moisture builds up as a result of friction and can be exacerbated by excessive moisture inside your boot. Your feet release a tremendous amount of moisture. To the point it's gross. To reduce blisters, you have to combat moisture inside your boot in general and mitigate the friction in problem spots.

As mentioned above, socks are the key. People seldom realize the importance of a good sock. It goes way beyond the type of fiber used in the sock, but how it's used. Obviously, cotton is evil and should never be let outside your house...ever. Cotton is just terrible. Wool (Merino) and some synthetics are the way to go, but don't just buy based on material alone. A Smartwool Phd sock for example is woven in such a way as to control the collection and transfer of moisture. In a nutshell, it takes moisture from the bottom of your foot where it is most heavy, and draws it out of your boot to the cuff of the sock where the moisture evaporates, kind of like a little radiator/evaporator. That particular sock even has a thinner "window" woven above your toes so moisture can radiate through your piggies to the top of the sock. In addition to this, the sock (any good sock) adds important cushion and additional volume to the shape of your foot to optimize fit to reduce the chance of slipping - friction. I'll take crap boots and a good sock over $500 boots and a junk sock any day.

Socks are usually the best way to mitigate blisters, but it's not the only way. Since this is often about moisture, sometimes taking off your boots and letting your feet dry helps. I have used alcohol pads to wipe my feet clean and expedite the drying process. Toss on some dry socks and away you go. If you have friction you can't mitigate, that needs to be addressed the exact instant you feel a hint of a hot spot. Re-lace your boots, change your socks or cover that area with one of the many blister aids available asap.

And sock liners are not as necessary now as they were years ago when sock weaving technology was less sophisticated. Bite the bullet and buy Smartwool Phd socks. They'll run nearly $20, but they do the job of 4 pairs. I can often backpack for 3 days on one pair.

You might also be able to improve the fit of the boot with an improved insole. I'm an advocate of Superfeet insoles. The crummy $2 insole in most shoes is pretty lame. People often wax poetic about the fit of a boot, but seldom mention the footbed. People love to toss around the term, "arch support" but most boots by design don't have much contour on the footbed. And arches don't get supported under the arch. You support a foot from the heal first as that's where all of your weight is. Insoles like Superfeet not only add more contour to a boot where it's needed most, it helps all sorts of fit and efficiency issues.

Dang this is nerdy stuff.
Hope that helps.

[Overdrive]

Thanks Flounder, I'll get a pair of Smartwool.

Moisture sounds like the evil culprit. My boots have Gore Tex lining...would rather have them without the fancy cold weather lining for hiking around Tucson to let the boot breathe.

What would you recommend as a material for a liner sock? I'll first try the Smartwool alone, but in case I go with a liner sock later, what's recommended?

[brained]

i've found nylon dress socks work well as liner socks, but i'm a self-proclaimed cheapskate.

x2

[Flounder]

Thanks Flounder, I'll get a pair of Smartwool.

Moisture sounds like the evil culprit. My boots have Gore Tex lining...would rather have them without the fancy cold weather lining for hiking around Tucson to let the boot breathe.

What would you recommend as a material for a liner sock? I'll first try the Smartwool alone, but in case I go with a liner sock later, what's recommended?The Gore-Tex membrane in your boots is not there to insulate. It's there to provide a waterproof barrier that has some modest breathability to it. All the more reason to wear a sock to help move that moisture. If you buy a good sock, you won't need that liner. Liners are all but obsolete. Good boots and good socks don't need liners.

[Pedro]

Overdrive, I may be able to help you with your fit problems. If you have the ability to take and post photos it would help quite a bit with solving your issue.

It sounds like the first problem was the boot choice for your reigon. GoreTex (no matter how much they tell you it does) does not breathe. I think it may be the root of your problems.

but if you want some further help take photos of the following:

Footbed (top) out of the boot
Footbed (bottom) out of the boot
the blister location
the sock
corresponding area in the boot (where the blister would be if your foot were in the boot)

[Flounder]

By the way, as a "certified" fitter and footwear buyer, I've noticed fewer and fewer companies are producing 12.5 sizes. Plus, I've noticed many manufacturers don't have size specific lasts. The last is the fake foot they build the shoe around. Some companies build one such fake foot and then scale it up or down per each size. Better brands will have lasts that represent the appropriate dimensions for each size. Meaning a size 9 might have a slightly different shape than a size 12.5 and not just be the same shape only bigger.

For this reason, I try to stock specific brands with superior lasting. La Sportiva comes to mind. I've been to the La Sportiva factory in Italy and they cherish their lasts like family heirlooms. Even Olukai flip flops are size-lasted. I also like those Euro brands in some cases because they're often sized in Euro sizes that run in increments of 1/3rds, not halves. So, you have the option of a 12, 12 1/3rd, 12 2/3rds, and a 13. That's a rough approximation, but you get the idea. For you 12.5 guys that's awesome. Not to talk you into different boots, but something to think about.

And Pedro is correct. If you have a Gore-Tex representative explain to you how that Gore-Tex membrane actually works in footwear, you'd wonder how your feet don't cook in those boots.

[Mr. Leary]

Good suggestion. Heel blisters are caused by the heel not fitting securely in the heel cup of the shoe: This can well be because you need a 12.5 and have a 13.

Try different socks. I generally wear a polypropylene liner and a medium weight oversock (I too wear a 13 and need a 12.5 - but extra wide for me). Don't wear cotton socks at all, of course. The poly liner allows the foot to slide, rather than create friction.

You can also attempt lacing a bit differently - a bit tighter down on the instep, with a double pass across the lacing at the point your foot flexes, and then a bit looser on the upper. Or, try an insole (like a Spenco) for a bit of filler in the footbed area.

Yes, and I agree with Pedro as well. GoreTex does not breath very well.

About the lacing thing, though. You must break your shoes in well before you hike, and you must do it properly. I wear my hiking boots every day for two weeks before I hit a trail. I also walk on the treadmill and get them very warmed up, feet sweaty etc., then tear down and re-lace them. Part of the problem is that your boots may be laced up for cold feet, so they only fit well for the first 5 minutes of the hike. Your boots should feel tight in the ankles and on the loose side of snug in the ball of your foot section (I hope that makes sense). Your ankles will not swell very much with heat, but the arch and forward will. YMMV.

I've hiked a bit, :sombrero:, and have come to my own conclusions about gear:

If its cheap, its gonna hurt.
If you don't put in the time, you will be punished for the crime.
If you wear Gore Tex boots, change socks at lunch, and when you change, go to a progressively more cushioned sock (i.e. medium weight to heavy)
Wearing shorts can help keep your feet cool.
Freebie, but not related to boots: If you go on three trips and don't use it (except medical supplies), eliminate it from your packing list.
You CAN use your hat as a pre filter / wash bowl. :elkgrin:

[Overdrive]

Pedro, these boots do not have a removeable insert which is what I think you mean when you say "Footbed, (top and bottom) out of the boot." Photos are not usually workable for me anyway.

Re: Gore Tex. Unfortunately, Danner does not make this model without it. My next purchase will not have it.

I picked up a liner sock made with Cool Max and it has 5 separate toes. Also some Smartwool Phd socks as the outers, and Superfeet inserts. I'm $75 poorer. I asked my wife how the gold prospectors and cowboys survived without all this high-tech stuff. :yikes: Anyway, we'll see how the new stuff works in a while.

Scott

[Pedro]

Interesting. Definitely let us know on the outcome with the toe socks as liners. I have not used those before.

To combat exessive moisture in your boots, you can also try using a talc powder (goldbond ect) if that is the main cause of the blisters.

Flounder, I also work in the footwear industry. Although I am not a buyer, we may have crossed paths depending on who you buy from.

[d1sc0ver]

I've had boot-fit problems before due to my half-sized 9.5 feet. What I do is buy a half or whole size up and wear a good sock liner w/ smart-wool socks. The liner and sock will not take care of the boot-fit, but your feet will swell up anyhow...to a dedgree, so always buy bigger. To remedy the narrow foot, or small ankle problem, use a 'sherpa knot'. A sherpa knot will pull the cuff of the boot tighter before you ever tie the knot, you can actually see it working and feel it as you tighten the lace before tying the knot.

Sherpa knot is also know as lock-lacing:
http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/locklacing.htm

[paulj]

I've had boot fit problems for years. Part of it, I think, is the my heel is relatively narrow, more typical of a woman's foot than a man's. For most part I've given up on boots because they are too stiff (producing heel lift), and do not cup my heel enough. Instead I stick with low cut trail shoes. Several Merell models have a narrow enough heel to work with my feet.

Admittedly a shoe does not provide the protection that a boot does. I worry less about the ankle support, and more about the softer footbed.

When I was using boots, I had best luck with taping my heels before the hike. Tincture of benzoine and Durapore style tape were the best combination.

I also tried all sorts of sock combinations, including double layers ones. Now I mostly use Smartwool (or equivalent) socks.

[Flounder]

Interesting. Definitely let us know on the outcome with the toe socks as liners. I have not used those before.

To combat exessive moisture in your boots, you can also try using a talc powder (goldbond ect) if that is the main cause of the blisters.

Flounder, I also work in the footwear industry. Although I am not a buyer, we may have crossed paths depending on who you buy from.I buy from La Sportiva, Scarpa, Vasque, Exofficio, Patagonia, Merrell, Asolo, Five Ten, Salomon, Kayland, Ahnu, Teva, Chaco, Olukai, Keen, Sorel....ya, for a retailer it's a ton. I'm also a raging footwear nerd beyond help.

[Zatara]

I'm a fan of Keens and recently bought a pair of their Oregon hiking boots.
Mainly because I liked the Keen Targee shoes I had and these are based on those made into a hiking boot. That and they fit GREAT !!
However, they have the Keen dry stuff which is Keens version of Gore Tex and my feet don't breath well in them. They are great for winter and wet activity though.
I'm looking for a good pair of desert hiking boots now for spring/summer that breath well. Maybe Danners ??
Any thoughts ?

[Alchemyguy]

I'm no boot fitter, but I know how to deal with blisters; duct tape before they form. We carry small quantities when we backpack and stop to slap some on hot spots before they get any worse. High quality socks help prevent hot spots, and if you can keep them from progressing to blisters you're doing well. Air your feet out and dry them off at the end of the day, and even consider changing your socks mid-hike if they're wet.

[Yorker]

I'm also a raging footwear nerd beyond help.

I think it is interesting to see how few sizes are produced today. I can't quite remember the exact # but the US Army QMC (talking WW1-WWII era) used to stock 100's of sizes. That was back when infantrymen still depended on their feet as their primary means of transport and there was a decent understanding about what was required to get an ideal fit. If you needed a 9 1/2 EE left and a 10E right you could get issued them.

Nowadays the bulk of shoe manufacturers seem to want to cram you into a pair of ill fitting shoes, and MAYBE supply a 1/2 size or a wide. It is frustrating.

Edward Munson's work on the sizing of shoes is interesting. I'm not saying we haven't made advancements since the Army Shoe Board of 1912 but in general there is far less attention paid to the fit of shoes today than there should be.

http://books.google.com/books?id=frFJAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70&dq=army+shoe+board+munson&source=bl&ots=ZsPXYA3KuF&sig=s6jEiJp-lX-XMwbjx_-mbAYhE1Y&hl=en&ei=0j3HS8qpIoaQNv76mN0I&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=army%20shoe%20board%20munson&f=false

[R_Lefebvre]

That is why you buy boots based on the fit, not by the name brand. If one brand of boot in a 12 is too small, and 12.5 is too wide, try another brand. All the brands have differing widths and fits, because they use different lasts.

One problem I find is some boot makers tend to build boots that fit comfortably in the store, but will not actually function well for hiking. Typical of this is padding that is soft. You put the boot on in the store, and it feels like a slipper. This isn't actually what you want in a hiking boot. You want something that is firm and supportive, but that will eventually break in to fit your foot properly.

You don't want a boot that has any ridges or anything like that that you can feel inside, but you do want firm padding that might not be perfectly comfortable in the store. Even if you have pressure points, they will usually break in over time.

As for the GoreTex... I could see why it would not be needed in the desert. But some form of waterproofing is necessary where I hike, because it's often wet. I've never had a problem with GoreTex boots. But I do wear good socks.

Sometimes even the best boot will cause blisters when new. Or particularly if you're a new hiker. The boot, and your foot, need to break in. Go on short hikes, or just wear them around the office for a few days, until they break in. Good boots, because they are firm, they need time to break in, and there's no way around that.

+1 on the Superfeet. Gel insoles and all that stuff are crap. I pretty much have to put Superfeet in all my footwear now.

[Yorker]

That is why you buy boots based on the fit, not by the name brand. If one brand of boot in a 12 is too small, and 12.5 is too wide, try another brand. All the brands have differing widths and fits, because they use different lasts.


That would work great if everything about the quality and features and style of the differing brands was equal- but it isn't the case. Additionally limited size ranges exist over most brands often forcing people with wide feet to go to shoes longer than they actually need in order to get the width they require. In a world of compromises-feet suffer.

[edit] Also you have to consider that what feels "best" in a store might not be the best actual fit.

[R_Lefebvre]

Can't argue with any of that. Luckily there are enough quality brands that I've always been able to find a good fit. I find Salomon works well for me.

[AmericaOverland]

By the way, as a "certified" fitter and footwear buyer, I've noticed fewer and fewer companies are producing 12.5 sizes. Plus, I've noticed many manufacturers don't have size specific lasts.


Hello!

When are we going to start getting hiking/trail/work boots in America that are an A-width? When people stop abusing themselves with junk food on a regular basis? I just saw for the first time on Red Wing's web site boots available in an "H" width?! WTH?!

Otherwise, I have to get custom-made boots.

[AmericaOverland]

Nowadays the bulk of shoe manufacturers seem to want to cram you into a pair of ill fitting shoes, and MAYBE supply a 1/2 size or a wide. It is frustrating.

Edward Munson's work on the sizing of shoes is interesting. I'm not saying we haven't made advancements since the Army Shoe Board of 1912 but in general there is far less attention paid to the fit of shoes today than there should be.


You're darn right about today's shoe makers. I hate them all because of their approach to maximum profit and one-size-fits-all. That leaves me with only one option - custom boots that can cost at minimum in the upper 3-digits.

There is far less attention paid today because people in general are not active and abuse themselves at the dinner table in the most horrible way - ask the diabetic members of my family. Even one of them is type-1! Destroyed her pancreas! What am I supposed to do when everyone is hooked on junk food!?

[Flounder]

Hello!

When are we going to start getting hiking/trail/work boots in America that are an A-width? When people stop abusing themselves with junk food on a regular basis? I just saw for the first time on Red Wing's web site boots available in an "H" width?! WTH?!

Otherwise, I have to get custom-made boots.You might try Oboz Yellowstone boots. Certain brands trend narrow. Oboz is a new company out of Bozeman Montana. Excellent product and a few models are easy fit for narrow feet. The Oboz Wind River is a NOLS recommended boot. I've got very narrow feet as well and I found the fit of some Oboz shoes to be perfect.

http://www.obozfootwear.com/site/oboz-womens-wind-river.html

Vasque also makes a number of boots in narrow and wide widths.

[AmericaOverland]

You might try Oboz Yellowstone boots. Certain brands trend narrow. Oboz is a new company out of Bozeman Montana. Excellent product and a few models are easy fit for narrow feet. The Oboz Wind River is a NOLS recommended boot. I've got very narrow feet as well and I found the fit of some Oboz shoes to be perfect.

http://www.obozfootwear.com/site/oboz-womens-wind-river.html

Vasque also makes a number of boots in narrow and wide widths.

Then I have to correct you and clarify things a bit. Oboz nor Vasque do not make a narrow boot, but merely a medium-width boot that "happens to run a LITTLE narrow." Definitely not classified officially as a narrow-width boot (must be B-width or less). We have Vasque boots at REI, and I have never had good fitting from them because my foot is low volume coupled with a very short instep.

However, it appears to be problem solved.

**************
**************

SKINNY-FEET PEOPLE LISTEN UP NOW!!!!!!!!!!

**************
**************

The problem may be solved now for some of us. You may want to try out work boots instead of hiking boots, but get good-quality ones. It has to do with the way they are cut and fit your feet. Today, on a hunch, I went in to talk to my Red Wing salesman, my go-to for when I have A-AA width customers (when I find this out on the measurement device, I don't even bother fitting them with our shoes and instead send them straight to him). I currently wear a couple of Red Wing hiking boots, though they are not the best fit, but had been the best fit I found in my entire life. One thing I found out about Red Wing boots with glued-on soles - Red Wing will not resole them. They're disposable boots, though I have worn them for around 200 days each pair per year for near-four years. Not these, as they are welt-stitched with the stitching hidden by a band molded to the top outside edge of the outsole. These, RW will resole them for you and recondition the leather (they won't replace damaged leather uppers, though) for about a third of the cost of new boots. I first tried on a pair of B-width men's work boots and then the women's version. I wanted to try the men's first because I had never tried men's boots before. It didn't work, as it was too big, even when adjusted for men-women size conversion. I tried on the women's version, and presto! It seems to be solved! These are women's Red Wing model no. 2326, available in different widths, only up to size 10, though!

http://www.redwingshoes.com/images/boots/large/2326.jpg

http://www.redwingshoes.com/productdetails.aspx?prodid=1182

I tried them on just to see what would happen. It was like magic! They fit just like in the photo! No puckering in front of the tongue base. A good fit from just behind the ball of the foot, all around the foot's body including the arch, and the instep. They fit like a GLLLOOOVE (like Ace Ventura says it after parking the truck)! I mean they really do! They are not gore-tex, so these should breathe a bit more than my other boots. I was VERY surprised! I had never seen a normal tongue distribution on hiking boots on my feet before as show below!

:wings:

I'm wearing them as I type in order to break them in. Occasionally, I'll get up and walk around for a couple of minutes. There are no pressure points, just pressure across the top of the foot, and once in a while, I'll loosen the laces across that area to relieve some of the pressure. It's odd and completely opposite of what I usually have to do, which is cinching them up beyond puckering at the tongue base in front of the laces. There is very little heel lift (a little is okay), and definitely no toe contact in the toe box, even when I put the foot back and kick the ground toe straight down. There's plenty of wiggle room in the toe box. The outsole doesn't have quite the aggressive tread that the hikers do, BUT my camping style and work schedule allows me to skip rained out camping trips and reschedule them to dry days within a week or two. I do NOT like to camp when it's raining (no-no for my hearing aids). Plus, I'm not a backpacker, but do like to have the support for long day hikes.

To complete today's story, I recalled that I still had a pair of the RW hiking boots brand-new in the box in storage from the day I bought them over 3 years ago (I have a habit of buying extra pairs in case they go extinct, and as soon as I prove these out positively, I will be buying two more pair so that I always have something to wear when one pair is being resoled), so I asked if there was any way that I could return them in exchange for these, and I would be willing to pay the difference. They said yes, since they had my name and transaction record on file. It turned out to be an even exchange, and they even threw in black shoe cream for my old boots for free! This is awesome customer service. That is how you stay in business after all these years!

It seems like these are a good fit!

[Flounder]

Then I have to correct you and clarify things a bit. Oboz nor Vasque do not make a narrow boot, but merely a medium-width boot that "happens to run a LITTLE narrow." Definitely not classified officially as a narrow-width boot (must be B-width or less). We have Vasque boots at REI, and I have never had good fitting from them because my foot is low volume coupled with a very short instep.
t!
I never said they were classified as a "Narrow." I simply said they trend narrow, just as goofy Keens aren't classified as "Wide" yet you could put a clown foot in there.

[AmericaOverland]

I never said they were classified as a "Narrow." I simply said they trend narrow, just as goofy Keens aren't classified as "Wide" yet you could put a clown foot in there.

I'm sorry, you're right. I wanted to clarify in print that these are not narrow shoes. If you are an A-AA width with a low volume foot, go to Red Wing to try on these boots or contact the custom boot makers noted here on EP. These are about your only choices in America. It is critical that all of you understand this. White's Boots seems to have the most reasonable deal, at $270 for a low-cut hiking boot. Another one would be the Thornbush PH by Russell Moccasin for $325 without options. As I mentioned, Red Wing would at most resole and recondition the leather. These other companies will completely rebuild your boots if necessary. I think these companies, though initially expensive, would be the best deal going over the long run. That would be if you absolutely can't find anything that fits or works.

I need to add one other thing - if you need a boot just like the I'm raving about, but for cold weather, without the steel toe cap, consider Red Wing's model no 1626, which is the same shoe as the 2326, otherwise.

[Flounder]

Then I have to correct you and clarify things a bit. Oboz nor Vasque do not make a narrow boot, but merely a medium-width boot that "happens to run a LITTLE narrow." Definitely not classified officially as a narrow-width boot (must be B-width or less). We have Vasque boots at REI,!You're in luck.

Vasque:

Item# W7465 - Breeze GTX Women's Narrow
Item# W7177 - Wasatch GTX Women's Narrow

Those carry over to 2011.

[AmericaOverland]

You're in luck.

Vasque:

Item# W7465 - Breeze GTX Women's Narrow
Item# W7177 - Wasatch GTX Women's Narrow

Those carry over to 2011.

Where did you find these? I do not see them.

[Flounder]

Where did you find these? I do not see them.2010 and 2011 Dealer catalog. As odd as it sounds, I was told the Women's Briza was built on the same super low volume and narrow last used for the narrow badged Breeze. Go figure. So, the Briza is narrow and the Briza Wide is...er...not-wide.

[AmericaOverland]

2010 and 2011 Dealer catalog.

But who sells them FOR Vasque? They may not be available in the American market. They are not available at Gander Mountain, REI, nor Cabela's. Only in medium width with some wide options. I honestly don't believe that they are sold here. Until somebody coughs up the web site of a retailer in America, they don't exist.

[Flounder]

But who sells them FOR Vasque? They may not be available in the American market. They are not available at Gander Mountain, REI, nor Cabela's. Only in medium width with some wide options. I honestly don't believe that they are sold here. Until somebody coughs up the web site of a retailer in America, they don't exist.What in the wuurld are you talking about?? Just because a retailer online doesn't chose to stock those narrows in inventory, that does not mean they are not available, or NOT sitting on a shelf at the Red Wing warehouse in MN by the crate.

It's right here in front of me in the Vasque Fall 2010 dealer catalog as well as in the Spring 2011 dealer catalog.

We're like a lot of retailers. We seldom INVENTORY narrows and wides, but that doesn't mean we can't get one here in our store with a phone call or an email.

Dealer web site: http://www.vasque.com/vasque-shoe/7465-vasque/7465-vasque-womens-breeze-gtx-xcr-olive-sage:sombrero:

[AmericaOverland]

What in the wuurld are you talking about?? Just because a retailer online doesn't chose to stock those narrows in inventory, that does not mean they are not available, or NOT sitting on a shelf at the Red Wing warehouse in MN by the crate.

It's right here in front of me in the Vasque Fall 2010 dealer catalog as well as in the Spring 2011 dealer catalog.

We're like a lot of retailers. We seldom INVENTORY narrows and wides, but that doesn't mean we can't get one here in our store with a phone call or an email.

Dealer web site: http://www.vasque.com/vasque-shoe/7465-vasque/7465-vasque-womens-breeze-gtx-xcr-olive-sage:sombrero:

I checked it out, and yes, it's there. HOWEVER, I check all five retailers here in Houston including my footwear department at REI. We can't special order these. The only one who could special order them is Sun and Ski. I would have to call Vasque and ask to confirm a rumor that they would discontinue the Breeze model soon. One of the stores said that it would be discontinued ONLY in the narrow and wide width and keep making them in the medium width only.

Now, what about a heavy-duty hiking boot in the A-AA width range with a steel shank for long-distance backpacking with say, 50 lbs? I haven't found anything that would work thus far without going custom.

Aside from that, I found two other makers you might consider - http://www.nicksboots.com/ and Viberg at http://www.workboot.com/ - I don't know anything about these two, I just saw them on a page discussing lineman boots.

[Flounder]

I checked it out, and yes, it's there. HOWEVER, I check all five retailers here in Houston including my footwear department at REI. We can't special order these. Now, what about a heavy-duty hiking boot in the A-AA width range with a steel shank for long-distance backpacking with say, 50 lbs? I haven't found anything that would work thus far without going custom.

.Any Vasque dealer can order any Vasque boot. There's no such thing as a limited dealership. It might be that certain retailers don't want to special order them, but they certainly are available to any Vasque dealer. We've ordered a number of narrow and wide Breeze and Briza boots. We just don't stock them because the regular widths fit most of our customers.

Regarding the steel shank component, you won't find many boots with steel shanks. Steel shanks are/were used to stiffen leather mid-soles. Traditionally, the only things available to add stiffness to a boot were heavy layers of leather, essentially raw-hide, augmented with a steel shank. This is common for those classic Norwegian Welted boots like Fabianos, Limmers, etc. Zamberlan is going to re-introduce some Norwegian Welted boots with leather mid-soles and steel shanks. Point being, newer boots don't need the steel. Higher tech alpineering boots as an example will use a variety of fiberglass, nylon, or even carbon fiber mid soles to add stiffness without additional weight (steel ain't light), as well as being able to keep the sole thin. A La Sportiva Makalu has a small chunk of steel (3/4 shank) in it to augment the stiffness of the nylon midsole. So, the inclusion or absense of steel is relative to the construction method used for the boot, not a measure of it's capabilities on the trail. My alpineering boots are as rigid as a plank without a steel shank.

Anywho...the world is flush with excellent boot options. In fact, the much harder part is finding solid custom boot makers. I think one of the very best backpacking boots available these days is this:

http://www.lowaboots.com/catalog/ShowBoot.cfm?StockNum=2204964649&Category=2&Type=M

And whattaya know, it's available in a narrow!! Notice it forgoes the clunky steel shank for a much more efficient 5mm "full width" and "full length" nylon midsole or shank. Sweet boot.

[AmericaOverland]

Wow! Thank you on that Lowa model. I have never been able to find boots like this via google. I'll have to see if I can get a dealer deal on it through work. It would be nice to try it on first, though, since these deals not are returnable per REI policy, AND I can't sell it for a year from purchase IIRC.

It's been a while since I worked footwear, so I forgot about the full-length shanks and the materials. Thanks for the reminder! They do make the boots lighter! Recently, I tried on some casual boots from Merrell, and I was marching around like a nazi or communist soldier because they were so light. The feel of the boot told me they were heavy, but they're not. It's like picking up an empty jug you think is full. Hilarious!

I'll have to contact Whole Earth Provision and see if they can special order these (I recall him saying that he didn't have a single narrow width boot available at the store and didn't know of one, either). These look like a done deal! I would have to find out about whether they can be resoled (do you know?).

The thing about the Red Wing 2326 model is that they can be resoled. I hate having to search all over again for narrow boots, especially if some of these models you've shown thus far cease production in the future. I'm buying multiple pairs for that reason. I don't know if I would be buying these (Lowa and Vasque), since I'm not a backpacker, really, and I'm on the light side. I just like a good, sturdy boot that fits well and works well year-round and on the day hikes I take from my truck. These are rated to be very comfortable on concrete, which is where I spend the vast majority of the time outside of home. I've had to wear the superfeet in the old boots, though. Otherwise, my feet would hurt. I'm going to try wearing the new ones without superfeet, and then see the difference. If they don't give me enough arch support out of the box, I will REALLY feel the difference, as I have a high arch.

Good job on digging up these boots! I've bookmarked these for future reference.

[T.Low]

ALso in the hiking boot business years ago (did the Phil Oren boot fit clinics multiple times).

SOme good info in this thread so far. One thing I've not heard so far is to change into fresh dry socks at lunch break. That was always a recomendation when I was in the industry.

Air out the dogs at lunch, then pull on a fresh pair of socks for the remainder of day. (recommended even with the hi tech hiking socks in mind).Feet sweat a lot morethan most people realize. They are one of the main areas of sweat glands in the body. Especially if you're in waterproof boot with the GoerTex PTFE membrane

With your boots laced up snug, you should barely be able to jamb a finger down inside the back of the boot to the bottom of your heal. Anything more is too loose. And your fitter should have held your boot to the ground as you attempted to raise your heal. He should know if it had too much movement or not, inwhich case SuperFeet insoles or the like should have been tested.

It takes time to do a proper boot fit.If people came in at 20 minutes to closing, I would tell them there was no way we could do a proper fitting that night.

I too remember the Summit Hut in Tucson and you could probably call and get an appointment there with a Phil Oren boot fitting clinic attendee, even with your boots you've purchased elsewhere.

[Flounder]

ALso in the hiking boot business years ago (did the Phil Oren boot fit clinics multiple times).Ha! Small world. Phil Oren is from Prescott. I was in his first week-long boot fitting clinic. Because of that, I was in many subsequent fit clinics as his system evolved and then...devolved. Dude had some messed up feet, huh?

Stephanie,

Because of the way these boots are made these days, resoling is not really much of an option. I could elaborate, but suffice it to say, when the soles are done, so too is the boot. That said, by the time you put 2,000 miles on your boots, new boots sound pretty darn attractive. Regarding buying two or three extra pairs, don't bother. People have had narrow, wide, fat, round, crooked and funky feet for decades and will long into the future. There will be ample boots to fit your feet in the future. I did plunk down $1200 for two pair of custom Fabiano Mountain Masters a decade ago because I happened to be in Italy at the factory and I knew they wouldn't be easy to get later on. Those Lowas would take a LOT of walking to wear out.

[AmericaOverland]

Because of the way these boots are made these days, resoling is not really much of an option. I could elaborate, but suffice it to say, when the soles are done, so too is the boot. That said, by the time you put 2,000 miles on your boots, new boots sound pretty darn attractive. Regarding buying two or three extra pairs, don't bother.


I can't not bother. I don't have the time to be researching boots all over again every 4 years (I'm about to hit 4 years with these and may go to 5 years). Boot makers usually NEVER keep the same models in stock or even change the last on them or drop certain widths over the years. These Red Wings can be resoled, so I'm sticking with the decision to buy more of these so that as I wear out one pair, I can send them in and pull the next pair out. That way, I don't have to wait on them, and I don't have to spend several weeks like I did last time looking for these old ones back then. Not to mention being able to pull out a new pair out of storage for $129 versus $150-170 later on down the road or when they break down when I'm out of a job. That's one thing I didn't mention about buying several pair. What if I lose my job, but need a new pair? Got that covered.

I haven't heard the name Phil Oren in years. What happened?

[Flounder]

Boot makers usually NEVER keep the same models in stock or even change the last on them

I haven't heard the name Phil Oren in years. What happened?Actually, many of the better boot makers never change their lasts. I've actually been to the La Sportiva factory in Ziana de Fiemme, Italy. They have the same lasts they've used for 50 years. They're the crown jewels of any boot maker. They're in many ways the identity of a maker's ability to make a boot for....a foot....their ideal foot, the last. So, if a pair of Makalus from 1995 fits, so too will a pair of 2020 Karakorum Super What Evers.

I'd also point out that everyone's feet change. Something I hoped wouldn't happen even though the Fabiano fitter told me it would. So, keep in mind your fit today may not be the same fit in just five years.

Oh, and Phil just retired. I still see him around now and then. Super nice man.

[AmericaOverland]

Actually, many of the better boot makers never change their lasts. I've actually been to the La Sportiva factory in Ziana de Fiemme, Italy. They have the same lasts they've used for 50 years. They're the crown jewels of any boot maker. They're in many ways the identity of a maker's ability to make a boot for....a foot....their ideal foot, the last. So, if a pair of Makalus from 1995 fits, so too will a pair of 2020 Karakorum Super What Evers.

I'd also point out that everyone's feet change. Something I hoped wouldn't happen even though the Fabiano fitter told me it would. So, keep in mind your fit today may not be the same fit in just five years.

I'm just going by my own experience. I can try a slightly different boot, but it's never the same fit as it was years ago. I had a pair of Merrells, I forgot which one it was (those, I bought around '91), and they had a sloppy fit. Looking back on it now, I didn't think anything of it then, since they were very cushy shoes and hid fitting problems that wouldn't come up at all unless I was on the trail in rough country, and I thought that how it was supposed to be. Getting out there was about toughing it out in those days for me. This was pre-REI (I joined in '93, left in '95, and came back in 2005). I did buy a pair of women's work boots from Red Wing probably about '96-'97, now that I remember, and they fit like a glove, contact with my feet everywhere up to just behind the ball of the foot and plenty of room in the toe box. They were real heavy, though. Things fell through in 2000 and I had to start all over. I made my way back to REI and bought a pair of Vasque Mica or Mica II boots, I think. They didn't fit well, but couldn't find anything else then. I wore thick socks with them and didn't take them on the trails as I hadn't gotten back to the point I could afford to travel without waiting for something else to fall out of my previous car, so I don't know how miserable I would have been on the trail, especially downhill a mile. They started to wear out after nearly two years on the job, so I started looking. It took me several weeks of looking. I looked at the models we had on the web site, I looked at the other retailers in the hope of finding this exotic, Italian or Norwegian hiking boot that would fit me perfect. Hah... Finally I got to thinking about the Red Wings I bought way back then and wondered if they were still in business, so I looked them up and explained to them my problem. I found a couple of their hikers, and they were the best fit so far, but not quite how I needed them to be. Something like this, which are near 4 years old now, and I have not had problems with them so far.

http://www.redwingshoes.com/productdetails.aspx?prodid=1191

No toe contact, no blisters, EVER, even on the entire trail system at Lost Maples (11 miles of some pretty rugged hiking with rocky trails - I don't get out much). The bottom of my feet did hurt, though, and I don't know if that was from too soft an outsole or lack of physical conditioning.

I have a different pair that are suede, different model, same story. The best fit so far, but can't really complain considering the circumstances. And now, I'm finding these new ones to be by far a much better fit. And I'm wearing the light hiker socks for now to really get a feel for how they feel. I have tried to wear them with the thicker socks, and it's the same if I lace them up looser, just a softer feel to the fit. I'm very happy with these. Since they are not gortex or waterproof-breathable, They should breathe better and keep the sweat down, especially here in hot, humid Houston.

I came home from work, and I forgot to take my old boots off, and when I did, just from hours of sitting and reading, my socks were sweaty. The waterproof-breathable stuff, I've not been too crazy about for technical reasons.

Yes, I noticed customer's feet would change over the years after they would try on some of the longer-lived models like the Vasque Sundowners. Some people would have to go up a half size if they had their old boots for more than 5 years. I would have them sit down to be measured and then stand up and remeasure to see if there was a change in the way their arch maintains its shape. If there was, like their feet elongated quite a bit, and I couldn't pick up their big toe while standing at attention, I would talk to them about Superfeet, especially this group of people. The feet tends to change over the years, especially if they don't stay on a healthy dietary and let themselves go. I mean major changes in some cases where illness is involved, and they're just starting to get back outdoors on easy hikes as part of their health recovery program. When they lose weight, a few months later they'll come back and ask for a different boot because their feet are different from the conditioning and weight loss.

I'm one of those people whose feet stay stable and my weight stays the same, and that's why I'm willing to buy the extra pairs knowing they will fit me years later. That's what I've had to do working in the office environments with pumps or flats, depending on the job. I ought to mention that one thing that keeps my feet in shape is the fact that I drum with a double bass drum pedal on my drum set, and I like to play rock.

[AmericaOverland]

I just ordered the Lowa Banff Pro in the narrow width yesterday, through my company! Hopefully, they'll be here before the New Year. I want to try them out before deciding to order more pairs.

[AchillesBogart]

I'll throw my 2 cents into the arena. I make my living on my feet in the woods off the beaten path doing archaeology tech work. So does most of my family, my sister fights fire on a hotshot crew, my dad was a firefighter for the forest service, and my grandpa was a forester. We all own custom made shoes because working feet are an absolute necessity for us.

I got my first pair of custom shoes this summer and I will never go back to off the shelf stuff for any serious walking again. They build the boots to your feet, and let me tell you the fit is like nothing you've ever experienced. The leather and stitching are much higher quality in hand made shoes than OTS, . I wore Georgia's last summer and in 4 months of work the leather was stretched and they leaked like a sieve. I worked longer this summer and my boots still fit tight and are waterproof even though they are untreated leather.

They do cost a lot more, my Kulien's were almost $800, but my grandpa's were 40 years old when he sold them and dad's are 17, so I look at it as an investment. There's still a lot of shoemakers around and if you have the cash and really love your feet, you should pay one a visit.

Also don't wear cotton socks, you should see less and smaller blister's without them. Plus cotton doesn't wick, so if you're feet get wet they stay wet. Here's a scholarly article on the subject of socks and blisters.
http://www.ipfh.org/research/docs/friction_blisters.pdf

[AmericaOverland]

Well...

I got the Lowa Banf Pro boots in on Friday at the store and laced them up. My fears were confirmed... These boots in a B width are too wide for me, requiring me to really lace up tight at the instep area and up to stay in place in the boot and keep from hitting the toe box on a downward slope. This is always the problem with boots like that. The instep portion of the boot (from the heel to the instep point) is too long for a narrow, low-volume foot.

I'm having to send these back, so I'm going back to the Red Wing work boots I mentioned and tried on at home. I'm waiting on the model without the steel toe to come in. They fit really nice, and I will take them to the other Red Wing store with the facilities to resole them...

Stephanie

[AmericaOverland]

And the boots finally came in last week. I took them a few days later on Friday to be resoled with Vibram lug soles at the Red Wing shop. I picked them up yesterday and tried them on today. Looks great to me! Now, I have to break them in and see how they break in. The Vibram soles are stiffer and thicker. I can't tell if they are any heavier than my old hikers. I now have mid-weight backpacking boots that fit me well. The downside to them is, they only have an arch-length fiberglass shank, which is about a 2.5"X3/4" straight strip. I'm not a very heavy person, and I don't intend to backpack anyway, but to hike trails. At least they should stand up to my use for year. I'm getting ready test these and if they are good to go through the break-in period, then I'll buy two more and resole them before storing them.