XJ going from 5.5'' to 3.5''/4.5''

[SWbySWesty]

Hi guys,

So I've built the Sour Grape in the Jeep section.

Quickly: Rubicon Express 5.5 Heavy Duty Long Arm kit. SYE, 4.56 gears, 33'' tires. Lockers F+R.

Thoughts: This thing is a monster. I've been driving it for a few months now and I just think that it might be too big. I have found that I don't DO the monster rock trails and that I'm more the adventure style where I'll go baja running like Jeepspeed or just general exploring, but nothing ridonkulous.

What to do?: I spoke to Rubicon Express about going to a lower height and with the Long Arms they said I could do two things:

drop to 4.5'': replace springs, take out shackle for leafs and replace shocks (could still fit 33's with trimming)

drop to 3.5'': replace springs, leafs, shocks and trackbar (might not fit 33's)

So NOW the debate is: WTF to do? Swap with someone with RE components looking to upgrade? Purchase and resell my junk? Keep it large and in charge?

I guess I could easily take out the shackle, put the bolt back in and see how she sits at that height to see if it's to my liking???

What are the thoughts from the pros? ...and don't call it blasphemy :snorkel:

[BIGdaddy]

what about dropping to 3.5, and running those iceland flares we've all talked about on NAXJA? I'll bet you could keep the 33"s and gearing...and have a better on-road ride, without losing the "under-diff" clearance [clarence]

How do you feel about cutting your fenders?

[SWbySWesty]

I was planning to cut the fenders anyways - so no need for new fenders. I think I'm going to remove the shackles out back, slide the bolt in, lower the Jeep and see how it looks because all the extra expense of going to 3.5 is tough...besides - I do like to go fast and want to have some travel ;)

[Riot]

You will be able to fit 33's under 3.5" of lift without an issue.
I've seen bigger than that on smaller lifts.

Here is my jeep, 3.5" RE lift, with 33" tires.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=581241&postcount=1139


If you have any questions about it, feel free to ask.

[Root Moose]

I say 4.5 without cutout flares, 3.5 with.

For the record I'm not a fan of flareless so I'm biased.

[Riot]

I say 4.5 without cutout flares, 3.5 with.

For the record I'm not a fan of flareless so I'm biased.

For the record, I wish I could afford bushwhackers.(haha) Also, I wish I had gone 4.5" just because I want to be a little more noticeable, but as far as functionality goes, 3.5" will get you just about anywhere you need to go.

[SWbySWesty]

Thanks guys - my questions have been answered for my main concerns! I can do either way and keep the expensive gear like tires and gearing.

So now I'll just figure out 3.5 or 4.5. 4.5 seems easier to do...simple spring swap up front and potentially shocks depending on which monotubes I have (can't remember if they're the 4.5-5.5 or 5.5-7.5)

[comrad_zeelaagee]

I have the RE 3.5" SF kit- it works well. I'd love to bump up to 4.5" (springs and add shackles) and have long arms for the articulation and increase the height because I know when the bumpers go on the ride height will drop a bit.

MHOFWIW

[Nikson]

if you are able to keep your long arms and drop to 4.5, that works the best in my opinion for the 33s.

personally gone that way (only no long arm fronts, but will here soon)...

Long Arms give you a lot softer ride & lower you keep the lift, less up travel on your axle you will have.

Good Luck...

[Maximus Ram]

since you have everything under there already, I say take it down to 4.5.
Thats what i am running on mine and it seems to be the right height for me.
I would say 3.5 because of alot of the problems associated with the taller lift, but you have the drop components needed to make the 4.5 so go with it.

[SWbySWesty]

Yea - I'm going to try out 4.5 and see how it is since the only thing I hope to need are front coils (which I can resell if i don't like it).

Going to 3.5 is going to cost a lot more unless I find I direct swap, but I'm going to give 4.5 a go first.

[BIGdaddy]

Yea - I'm going to try out 4.5 and see how it is since the only thing I hope to need are front coils (which I can resell if i don't like it).

Going to 3.5 is going to cost a lot more unless I find I direct swap, but I'm going to give 4.5 a go first.

hey I think you should try out 4.5, and see how that is...

:coffeedrink:

[Backwoods Rambler]

You can cut XJ coil springs to the height you want....... just sayin' :coffee:

Get that 3.75" lift you've always been dreaming of :D

[SWbySWesty]

Really? The coils definitely look like they have molded ends...

http://rubiconexpress.com/Images/Products/RE1345/324.jpg

[Root Moose]

Yeah, just cut out a piece in the middle and weld it back together.

[SWbySWesty]

Really? I don't have access to tools to do that kind of stuff...but that sounds like you need a REALLY good weld...I always heard of ricers just chopping springs from the top all ghetto - but not cutting out the middle and rewelding.

[Maximus Ram]

I think you'll be happy with 4.5. Like you said, 5.5 is a bit much and 3.5 would seem a bit low after having the 5.5 .
Have you checked craigslist for some 4.5 springs ? Maybe offer a trade for some RE 4.5 for the 5.5's...

[SWbySWesty]

Yea - I'll trade the 5.5 springs and mostlikely the rear shackles (to help them have a full set) for the 4.5. I just need to figure out which friggin' shocks I got...

[Root Moose]

Really? I don't have access to tools to do that kind of stuff...but that sounds like you need a REALLY good weld...I always heard of ricers just chopping springs from the top all ghetto - but not cutting out the middle and rewelding.

ZZZZzzzzzzzz

I caught a big one.

LOL

No, just yanking your chain. :D

[Backwoods Rambler]

XJ front coils do not taper at the axle, so they can be cut to length. That picture looks like a ZJ/WJ rear coil??

[XJCamper]

My 99 is riding on a 3.5" Rubicon SuperRide with the full springs.
I am currently running 33 x 10.50 BFG All Terrain KO's on the factory wheels.
I have a very slight rubbing at full lock on the LCA. But, the Rubicon LCA's are round and it does not rub hardly at all.
With that said, I do not disconnect at all. If I did I would tear off all of my flares. I do lots of trail riding but most of the trails are FS roads.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=353&pictureid=1365

[bat]

That is the key to lift and tire choice are you going to disconnect.
Running 33' with 3.5 can be done but if you disconnect you will tear up things.

[SWbySWesty]

Thank you for the photos! Does anyone have 4.5 w 33's in a photo just sitting on the ground?

I'll definitely be cruising baja at some speed and will probably want the 4.5 for the whoops...hehe the cargo gets pretty loud when I do that ;) - (i.e. no glass beer bottles allowed)

[BIGdaddy]

My 99 is riding on a 3.5" Rubicon SuperRide with the full springs.
I am currently running 33 x 10.50 BFG All Terrain KO's on the factory wheels.
I have a very slight rubbing at full lock on the LCA. But, the Rubicon LCA's are round and it does not rub hardly at all.
With that said, I do not disconnect at all. If I did I would tear off all of my flares. I do lots of trail riding but most of the trails are FS roads.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=353&pictureid=1365

nice:drool:

[alosix]

Thank you for the photos! Does anyone have 4.5 w 33's in a photo just sitting on the ground?

I'll definitely be cruising baja at some speed and will probably want the 4.5 for the whoops...hehe the cargo gets pretty loud when I do that ;) - (i.e. no glass beer bottles allowed)

Ugh.. too bad the one I air bagged is on the other coast so I don't have pics. We could just 'simulate' whatever lift you wanted to see. Its sitting on ORO 6" air bags that we've been running right around 4-4.5" inches of lift with 33s and to me it looks 'proportional'. Haven't had it off road enough to check rubbing, but its got TJ flares on it and a reasonable amount of sheet metal cut away.

After doing one with 32x11.5s, Bushwacker cutouts and a 2" lift.. I'd probably run 3.5" lift with some sort of cut out flare personally.

If you're worred about rubbing that can be fixed with some fine tuning of the bump stops. If you're still worried about whoops after that you can still set your shocks up long enough to have sufficient 'droop' travel.

If that's still not enough, then applying something like this:
http://www.rubiconexpress.com/Jeep/JK/RE1398.aspx

(I know the pic is JK, but they have a TJ mount which could work with a little mod on the front and I think the JK setup might work on the rear as it sits).

Jason

[SWbySWesty]

Thanks! I can't decide whether to hack my fenders with my dremel all the way or to go the Bushwacker route...I guess since I'm not seeing lots of rocks, they would be more practical on my rig since they'll be less prone to breakage?

[Explorer 1]

Coming in a bit late on this thread, but if it hasn't alreday been said , a lot would depend on how much articulation you want. If you really limit your upward movement by longer bumpstops, you can get away without much or any cutting, however the more you want to stuff that wheel into the "well" the more room you have to make for it. On a earlier thread I had some guy tell me about how he was running 37's without any cutting. ( a little hard to believe but he had really limited his axle 's upward movement.)

Here are 33x12.50's on a 4.5 front lift.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q41/fredsjeep/Cherokee/XJresize.jpg

Thanks,
Fred
Explorer 1

[SWbySWesty]

Thanks, Fred! I want to be able to stuff as much as possible (such as in your pic)...how much cutting did you do to fit the Bushwackers?

[Explorer 1]

It is hard to say, I started with the recommended amount the "bushwacker' people said in their directions and then went from there. I would lift up the suspension and then articulate each side to see possible rub spots. I would also spray new undercoating inside the wells just before a trip and then see where the tires rubbed it off to know where I needed more room.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q41/fredsjeep/Cherokee/August2009004.jpg

I also cut out the inside or underside of the bushwasker fender flares to allow more room. I did the with a simple dremel.

I ended up cutting enough that I needed to rivet the two sides of the outside and inside fenders back together. I wanted as much articulation as possible without much if any rubbing.

Here is a picture with the flares off. I recently decided to go another route than the bushwackers. My experience is that they need either to be stronger of softer. The dont' bend of flex and when you do hit something they are strong enough to dent your sheetmetal at he same time they break. Bushwacker replacement parts are very over priced. A front fender flare is over $100.00 shipped.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q41/fredsjeep/Cherokee/Jeepjune2009002.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q41/fredsjeep/Cherokee/Jeepjune2009003.jpg

I'm currently working on how to stuff 35's without more lift and still keep the articulation I want. (we'll see)

One other item is the off-set of your rims to move the tire away from the LCM's.

I really getting an education on mig welding thin metals!

Thanks,
Fred
Explorer 1

[SWbySWesty]

What about just getting fiberglass fenders like the Jeepspeeders? Seems that it would be practical...albeit expensive since then you still need to repaint them! :eek:

[FishPOET]

...bushwackers. My experience is that they need either to be stronger of softer. The dont' bend of flex and when you do hit something they are strong enough to dent your sheetmetal at he same time they break. Bushwacker replacement parts are very over priced. A front fender flare is over $100.00 shipped.

I had the same experience with Bushwackers. In less than a year I had 1 front and 1/2 of one rear break and damage the fenders. I took them off.

[SWbySWesty]

These fiberglass ones are pretty cheap...although unpainted as well:
http://www.glassworksunlimited.com/19to20jechfr.html

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-17120696680161_2096_560107
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-17120696680161_2096_576663

[Explorer 1]

Fiberglass fender flares are so clean looking!

Any experience with how they handle a brush or kiss against a rock?

Thanks,
Fred
Explorer 1

[SWbySWesty]

there are multiple debates on NAXJA about them - seems there are two camps (love or hate). Hardcore rock crawlers say they break when dragged on rocks...I would probably agree although I have no firsthand experience

However the other camp says they're fine because if you break them, simply reglass them together (depending on how bad it is), then repaint and voila.

But is the $500 tag (after painting them to match) worth it?

[Explorer 1]

I'm of the old school of "Pretty is as pretty does" They sure are slick looking but I can imagine how quickly they loose their luster when in contact with a piece of granite or even sandstone.

Thanks and I agree $500 a fender, I thought the bushwackers were high!

I'll continue working on my modifed tube style that I can re-paint with a can.

Thanks,
Fred
Explorer 1

[kc0tma]

What would be cool (and cheaper) would be to take a fender in good shape and create a mold for it, then use that master mold to make your own fenders. It wouldn't matter how hard you were on them, you could always just make new ones! :wings: You could do it totally custom too, like with the prerunner and trophy trucks that have the really wide front fenders, you could customize the size of the wheel opening and how much flare they have and everything.

[SWbySWesty]

I'm going to give the following a go: It's a guy on NAXJA (whom I know) that plainly relocated his stock flares...I like the look of it!
http://nicandjosh.com/modules/gallery/v/josh/socalxj/fendertrim/

[jh504]

Ive got the perfect solution for you. Ill trade you my 3.5" lift for your 5.5" lift and you will have everything you need...........

[SWbySWesty]

Ive got the perfect solution for you. Ill trade you my 3.5" lift for your 5.5" lift and you will have everything you need...........

I went ahead and purchased new 4.5 coils...there's a guy local to me who offered the same thing. We'll see how the 4.5 height sits this weekend and then if I don't like it, I might swap with him - but upon talking to more people, I really want to keep my droop travel with my long shocks since I sometimes run fast and might need the extra dampening from droop to compressed...:smiley_drive:

Will keep y'all posted this weekend!

[OverlandZJ]

I know you want to swueeze 33's, but i ran 32x11.5's on stock wheels with 4.5", stock flares with zero issues. (minor rubbing on CA's and coil tower)

I'd consider dropping down in tire size before adding the expense of flares.
q

[jh504]

4.5" is a good height on an XJ. My buddy has 4.5" on his daily driver running 31x10.50s with nothing trimmed. The 31s fit perfectly inside his fender when fully stuffed. There is only about 1/8" of room on the back though when they are in there and if he had 32s it would scrub. Only when fully flexxed though.

[OverlandZJ]

4.5" is a good height on an XJ. My buddy has 4.5" on his daily driver running 31x10.50s with nothing trimmed. The 31s fit perfectly inside his fender when fully stuffed. There is only about 1/8" of room on the back though when they are in there and if he had 32s it would scrub. Only when fully flexxed though.

Now that you mention that i had very minor rubbing in the rear fenderwells as well.. was nothing to speak of though.

Yeah, 4.5-5" on my first XJ was perfect.. i'v been chasing that overall combination of fit and comfort since.. i remember when 32's were considered BIG on an XJ. :sombrero:

[SWbySWesty]

I know you want to swueeze 33's, but i ran 32x11.5's on stock wheels with 4.5", stock flares with zero issues. (minor rubbing on CA's and coil tower)

I'd consider dropping down in tire size before adding the expense of flares.
q

hmmm- I'd rather just cut flares than purchase some because if I drop to 32's i'm geared at 4.56 and my speedo would then be more off...I think with some good trimming this weekend, it'll be all okay, but we'll see...:smiley_drive:

[jh504]

Now that you mention that i had very minor rubbing in the rear fenderwells as well.. was nothing to speak of though.

Yeah, 4.5-5" on my first XJ was perfect.. i'v been chasing that overall combination of fit and comfort since.. i remember when 32's were considered BIG on an XJ. :sombrero:

I havnt seen the 4.5 + 32 combination personally but I dont imagine the rubbing would be all that bad. The back is no big deal anyway. I think that would be a good way to go for our man here. 32x10.50 is a good size too, especially when you consider that Interco generally makes their tires taller than the rest of the competition. Could turn out being a little closer to a 33x10.50 with just enough shaved off to leave room to keep stock fenders and wells.

[jh504]

hmmm- I'd rather just cut flares than purchase some because if I drop to 32's i'm geared at 4.56 and my speedo would then be more off...I think with some good trimming this weekend, it'll be all okay, but we'll see...:smiley_drive:

If you want to cut it up then by all means go for it. All mine have been cut. You can make the stock flares work with trimmed fenders too.

[OverlandZJ]

A new speedo gear is a tad bit cheaper than Wackers. :ylsmoke: I ran this combo with 4;56 also.

Heres my 88 just before i rolled it.. i think this was early 00.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d24/ExpeditionXJ/_0195.jpg