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lehel1
03-21-2010, 07:37 PM
hello all

well, we've had our first unexpected breakdown on our 08 fuso fg. i havn't had a chance to do a writeup of our last trip and camper progress but thought i'd at least get this info down.

we have about 20000 miles on our truck now, and as you might imagine we have not expected problems this early on.
so, we were driving along near mamath lakes, 20 degrees outside at 10 pm heading for bishop and the yellow check engine light comes on, a minute later the red check engine light comes on, 30 seconds later the engine goes into limp mode. we were in shock. looked into the owners manual and after reading alittle saw one way to possibly reset was to put the key to acc and wait 3 minutes. after repeated attempts the yellow check engine light finally goes out, red one still on. we started the engine, the engine is no longer in limp mode, so we decided to try and make it the 50 miles to bishop and deal with this the next day. we made it about 10 miles and the engine goes into limp mode again, still no yellow light. the red one is still staying on.
after waiting awhile and restarting the engine (now again out of limp mode) we decided to proceed another 10 miles to a campground and camp for the night. at least we found the new camper to be comfortable in the 20 degree temp and we did have a nice evening despite our worries over the truck. i disconnected the truck batteries for the evening thinking this might have some effect on resetting the computer.
at this point the engine was not making any funny noises or running poorly.
the next morning i hooked up the batteries and still had the red check engine light on (somewhat expected) we called the dealer and were told to have the truck towed to a dealer, in this case 400 + miles over the seirra's to sacramento. they also told us that these new trucks have priortory software and only the dealer can work on the problem. they also told us with this sequnce of lights it was a dpf system failure (exhaust system) and we had not watched the dpf regeneration lights and done a regeneration burn cycle. as you might imagine we were not to thrilled to hear this, esspecailly since we have never seen the regenation lights come on since we've owned the truck. we then called customer service and fianally talked to someone that understood where we were and that towing might not be a first and only choice. so after going over the truck symtoms we decided we would drive the truck to the dealer, being carefull to monitor things along the way. we also tryed to check the error codes by pulling the upc fuse and turning the key on, the check engine now flashs and by counting the flashes you can read some codes. this didn't come to any conclusions. we'll, we didn't make it another 10 miles and we're in limp mode again. after waiting, and only driving another 5 miles on the next run we called our freind at customer service again and decided this would not be a good idea. we decided heading to bishop now 60 miles away would be a much better choice than the 400 although theres no dealer there. we then overnighted a fuel filter to bishop as this has been a common problem lately for fuso and might get us running again. this quickly seemed comfirmed when now the truck would not start after our latest limp mode mode. so i pumped up the fuel filter pump and the truck started right up, good news. we kept our speed under 50 heading to bishop and didn't experince any more limp modes for 60 miles.

so, were now in bishop and the next day put in the new fuel filter, also had the shop check and ultimally read the codes and reset the check engine light.

our findings,
1st the fuel filters may (did not for us) not last the 12000 miles the owners book suggests. we will now change them every oil change.

2nd carry spare oil and fuel fiters with you, as these are not readily available at auto parts stores.

3rd the supposedly proiritory software is a crock in this case, both the dealer (who said we have no chice but to have it towed in to the nearest dealer, and no susggestions on getting us back on the road) and customer servive (who were much nicer but still insisted on only a dealer can reset the check engine lights and limp mode) made it sound like we only had the dealer option. and a BIG NOTE here : a fuel filter would not be a warranty item and as such would not cover a tow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as well, a dpf system failure from not doing a timely regeneration is not covered under warranty, the dealer insisted this was the case with us here after hearing the check engine light sequence.

not only did the mechanic in bishop tell us this proirity software wasn't so, he read the codes, reset the computer on our truck and showed us the expensive updated software he purchases evey few months to work on newer cars and trucks. when i shared this with the customer service agent he continued to tell us this was so and it has to be done at the dealer. we'll side with the mechanic this time since he was able to do what he said could be done.
our conclusion is the auto and truck manufatures are once again trying to convince everyone only there dealers can work on there vehicals. this is especially true with the new smog systems.
we we're pretty disappointed with this, but now we had the truck in top shape and were able to continue our trip minus a couple of days to deal with this.

i suppose this is one of the downfalls of the new vehicals, i could always get our old unimog running with the spare parts we carried and it never left us stranded. we sure felt stranded here, and for a moment wondered if we had bought the right truck for a new camper. i can just see us on the dempster hwy in the yucon territory 300 miles from know where dealing with this sort of problem, whew ??
we're happier now after enjoying the rest of our trip and realize this was actually just a small problem in the scope of things and the unknown was the more worry some thing. i hope to be able to purchase a full mechanics manual for the fuso to be better prepared next time i got a problem so as to not rely so much on what the dealer tells us.

we're also excited to hear of so many new campers being done in calif and oregon, i beleive we're up to 5 now. hopefully some of you can make to the overland expo. be great to plan an event ????


cheers lehel and laura

lehel1
03-21-2010, 07:52 PM
oh, almost forgot

the fuel filter ended up being the problem. it did not last 12000 miles and must be changed sooner than the book says. the engine managment system sensed a low rail fuel pressure and set about limp mode. these codes can be read and reset at any good mechanics shop

we did not have a problem with the dpf system (exhaust system) with all the highway driving we regularly do we have not yet had to do a regeneration burn, its done automaticly. this is why we have never seen the dpf lights come on.

cheers lehel and laura

charlieaarons
03-21-2010, 09:21 PM
Does the fuel filter have a fuel heater?
If not, your problem could have been at least partly due to waxed fuel.
Common syndrome when you live in a warm area (Socal, Central Valley, etc) and go to a cold area (Inyo/Mono) with warm area fuel.
Or even a bit of water in the fuel.
You might get some of this:
http://www.powerservice.com/dfs/
and dump it in your tank before starting over the passes.


Charlie

kerry
03-21-2010, 10:35 PM
How difficult would it be to give a low fuel pressure indication of some kind? Standard fuel pressure gauge serves that function in my 30 yr old Bluebird. Got to wonder about the motive of the mfg. I've got about 40k on my fuel filters in my Mercedes 300TD. I keep spares but it does make me wonder if Charlie is right or you ran into a batch of bad fuel.
Any idea that the mechanic was using to scan for codes?

lehel1
03-21-2010, 11:01 PM
hello all

the mechanic used a snap-on code reader which he keeps current with updated software every few months.

the filter did not look that bad after removal, no water or sludge. the mechanics thoughts are the filter is on the small side and adding a second filter with water separator before the primary would be a great help.
also, the truck did not run poorly at any point during this trip. he suggests the trucks computer is set to be very sensitive to the sensors and was not so much starving for fuel but the sensors picked up a slight change in fuel rail pressure. this is also confirmed thru the fuso customer service dept, who suggested right off to change the fuel filter 1st. the guy there (who seemed to know some of his stuff) says there have been many similar calls to him regarding fuel filters.

just a added note for those who havn't received a notice yet, 2005-2010 fuso fe and fg trucks have a safety recall related to the air intake duct system. nothing serious but good to have changed.

cheers lehel and laura

gait
03-21-2010, 11:44 PM
don't you just hate that ... something simple turned into rocket science and hidden from owner.

the mechanic used a snap-on code reader which he keeps current with updated software every few months.
silly question - does anyone know if its standard OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) compliant? If so where's the connection / socket? I've never used them but readers to laptop seem to be readily available. I believe they can also reset. Perhaps I'm just being optimistic!

FusoFG
03-21-2010, 11:46 PM
adding a second filter with water separator before the primary would be a great help.

Lehel, doesn't your FG have a primary filter with a water separator located by the fuel tank? My 93 has 2 in series and my 2004 has 1. All original equipment.

Do you know what kind of reader and software the mechanic had? Might be a good tool to travel with.

1Engine
03-22-2010, 12:10 AM
Hi Lehel,
Don't you get a sick feeling in you stomach when this happens.
I heard a story a few years ago here that a new common rail Jeep had a similar problem of low fuel pressure & the local dealer replaced the HP pump at $2400 only to find the problem not repaired. Dealer sent it to the local Bosch Dealer who replaced the fuel filter.
Keep a note of that Mechanic- sounds like a good one to keep on side:smiley_drive:

lehel1
03-22-2010, 11:58 PM
Lehel, doesn't your FG have a primary filter with a water separator located by the fuel tank? My 93 has 2 in series and my 2004 has 1. All original equipment.

Do you know what kind of reader and software the mechanic had? Might be a good tool to travel with.

yes, it does have the primary filter and water separator by the tank. my thinking is to add a second.

the mechanics code reader was a snap-on (the cost we're told is over $2000) and the updated software every few months runs +800. abit more than would be practical to carry when traveling. i havn't tryed my napa brand simple code reader yet (only $78), may not read the codes but hopefully will at least erase them.

we'll see if we ever have another problem which we hope won't happen for a great while

cheers lehel and laura

nugget
03-23-2010, 12:15 AM
don't you just hate that ... something simple turned into rocket science and hidden from owner.

silly question - does anyone know if its standard OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) compliant? If so where's the connection / socket? I've never used them but readers to laptop seem to be readily available. I believe they can also reset. Perhaps I'm just being optimistic!

Great question....does anyone know the answer as it would be fantastic if they had a Scan Guage available. I have one in my H3 and it is great...except when monitoring fuel economy which can be depressing when you sink the boot.

Bajaroad
03-23-2010, 12:40 AM
Bummer Lehel - thanks for sharing.
With my 33 yr old Bluebird, I carry lots of extra filters, hose, etc - especially in Baja. Clearly I need to get in that habit with my Fuso too.

I was just up in Mammoth/Bishop yesterday. What's the name of the mechanic you worked with in Bishop? I don't know when you were there but the lows were only in the 20's (F) last weekend. Diesel No2 is good down to about 10F according to Exxon.
I was researching ULSD and found Exxon at a informative site on diesel fuel.
http://www.exxon.com/USA-English/GFM/Products_Services/Fuels/Diesel_Fuels_FAQ.asp

1leglance
03-23-2010, 12:44 AM
sorry to hear about your troubles but better to learn when & where you did vs in a truely remote area

I am growing more afraid of all our modern systems and how useless they are in overland travel

DzlToy
03-23-2010, 02:29 AM
easy solution to all of that nonsense is a mechanical diesel motor with a Racor separator and a good filter. :D

It will probably run on three wires, watch your gauges and you are fine.

iandraz
03-23-2010, 03:15 AM
The Mitsubishi website says Fusos 2008 and newer are OBDII compliant. I would think this means a cheap OBD code reader would be all you need for diagnostics.

http://www.mitfuso.com/pages/technicalinfo.html

Unfortunately on my 2004 FG the only option seems to be the proprietary Mitsubishi software or code reader.

I have attempted to use the third party software EvoScan, but it does not seem to be compatible with Fusos:

http://www.limitless.co.nz/

I would really like to be able to read diagnostic information from my laptop. I think for expedition use it's important to have this ability. I'm going to keep researching this.

racewave
03-23-2010, 08:38 PM
Last year I spent a month trying to track down a new pre DPF FG 4X4 to build a rig on. No success, all the dealers said the last of the pre DPF models had all been snapped up early on. Same issues happening with the US pickups. After warranty I would find a way to remove all the extra stuff, that is if you can avoid prosecution for doing so.

charlieaarons
03-24-2010, 12:22 AM
I am growing more afraid of all our modern systems and how useless they are in overland travel

I have tried to protect myself from this by carring the usual array of spare parts plus a spare ECU, engine sensors, and fortunately I was able to obtain the proper laptop/software (Mercedes Star) at a reasonable price.
And by deleting the EGR system. It becomes considerably more complicated with 07 and later vehicles.

Charlie

JRhetts
03-24-2010, 02:14 AM
silly question - does anyone know if its standard OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) compliant? If so where's the connection / socket?

Our 2007 FusoFM is OBDII compliant. We used it when we had what turned out to be a a transmission flurry, and the dealers we talked to confirmed the compliance.

Amesz00
03-24-2010, 09:46 AM
easy solution to all of that nonsense is a mechanical diesel motor with a Racor separator and a good filter. :D

It will probably run on three wires, watch your gauges and you are fine.

i like this man's thinking!
clearly a 6BT cummins or OM366 merc would go real nice...;)

iandraz
03-24-2010, 04:29 PM
Just to reiterate, I don't think Lehel has had any problems with the DPF....DPFs get a bad rap but really they are quite reliable, especially with the long drives and mountain passes typical in expedition travel that get the DPF really hot and burn the soot out. Usually the only time they are a problem is if you do a lot of very short drives and the DPF doesn't heat up enough to burn out the soot. In that case the engine has to do a active regeneration by injecting fuel into the exhaust to heat up the DPF and burn out the soot. Still not an issue cause the ECU takes care of things.

lehel1
03-25-2010, 12:15 AM
hello defenderbeam

aluminess is just about done with our new front bumper, ladders, motorbike rack and such. if all goes well i'll be heading down to san deigo to get it all install at aluminess mid next week, awesome.

then we will be getting everything ready for our trip to "overland expo" which is just a couple of weeks, can't wait ; )

we have got our underbed tool boxes and fenders mounted now, and found a great powdercoating shop in medford, oregon to repowdercoat our wheels. we did them in black this time and now i know what real powdercoating should look like, they look and feel bulletproof.

i do hope to get a writeup done on our trip last month to the desert and get some more pic's loaded sometime soon.

anyhow, we hope to meet some of you down at the expo

cheers lehel and laura

DzlToy
03-25-2010, 12:53 AM
DPFs have a deservedly poor reputation, they suck. Talk to anyone who owns a 08 or 09 one ton domestic truck. They dont work correctly, cause all kinds of other issues (plenty of stories from friends who use their full size trucks every day for work), and worst of all, they KILL fuel mileage...

So, somehow its ok to reduce fuel economy by 30-40% so you are using MORE fuel, as long as you have cleaner exhaust?? (I need the smilie slamming his head into the wall here)

sheesh, where did these people get their education??

Now talk to an 08-09 one ton truck owner who has done a DPF delete and ask him if his problems went away and his fuel economy went up anywhere from 3-7 mpg....

I betcha I know the answer...

4Rescue
03-26-2010, 03:30 AM
WHEW!!!!! Glad to hear you got her back up and running w/o TOO much hassle. Nothing like having a highly specialized an somewhat uncommon rig go all wonky on you when you're nowhere near anything resembling a major city/dealership. Glad to hear you got her sorted w/o having to result to towing it 400+ Miles too eh ;)

Are you in Oregon mate??? If so we should get an "Oregon Contingency" to make the run to Overland Expo this year, kind of a web-foot caravan if you will, maybe stop and pick up others along the way down...Man I'm DREAMING of going this year and it looks as though I just might make it...

Cheers

Dave

Mickldo
03-27-2010, 03:13 AM
I'd be wary of adding an additional fuel filter, especially if you are having problems with low fuel pressure already.

If it was mine I'd be replacing the filter with a better quality unit, probably Racor, to make sure I didn't lose the flow rate but but kept the same level of filtration or better.

lehel1
03-27-2010, 09:49 PM
hello dave

we are just south of the border along the klamath river hwy 96 (btween yerka and eureka)

love to caravan with others, let me know your thoughts ?

cheers lehel and laura

p.s. the consenses so far form fuso is adding a second filter system would be a good idea. the flow rates thru thru the stock and added filters should have no adverse affect on the rail pressure. more filter area means more and longer flow rates between changes. regardless we plan to change our filter or filters every oil change and this should take care of any future problems regarding dirty filters

gait
04-13-2010, 06:41 AM
finally found the ODB connector. My FG649 Canter is right hand drive, connector is visible when windscreen washer reservoir cover (below glove box) is opened.

Unfortunately only one wire connected to ODB connector, I'll track down the pin number later, probably earth. There's another connector next to it, quite different, possibly proprietary Mitsubishi diagnostics connector. About 5 wires.

More importantly, there are two wires, both with connectors. One is labeled "Memory Clear", the other "Diag Check". There are a couple of hints through google that these are useful when no scanner available. Combinations of undoing those two connectors can show the trouble code (flashing light(s) on dashboard - long for tens, short for ones) and clear trouble codes.

Looks like the sort of thing I should find more about.