Belly armor

[Benjisan]

I'm taking the advice of a friend who does some tough off-road trails and I'm holding off on the the lift and 33" tires I had planned. I'm told the Rubicon is pretty capable on 31" tires right out of the box and that I should see what it can do stock before I decide what extras I need or want on it.

I'm also told a good thing to invest in right away is belly armor and a tummy tuck. I've narrowed it down to either the JeepMedic tummy tuck and engine skid or the Nth TT and engine skid. Does anyone here have any recommendations, pros and cons on these two, or just general advice on these tummy tuck skids? In addition to the TT and engine skid I'll be bolting on a Rokmen steering box skid. I hear its pretty stout.

Thank you in advance.

Oh I suppose I should mention I'll also be adding a JKS 1.25" Body lift and 1" MML as well as JKS disconnects to make it a little more capable when rocks get in my way. I hope I am able to disco alright with just a 1.25" BL...

[goodtimes]

The rubicons are indeed pretty capable out of the box (been there, done that). I don't have any experience with either of the skid plates you mention..but pretty much anything is better than the OE part. The big thing you want to look at is the front and rear (leading and trailing) edges...the OEM part is bent down at both ends...this is bad. At a minimum, you want something that is flat, better if it is bent up at each end. Also, you want a skid plate that has some support across the width of it, otherwise it WILL bend. I have managed to bend mine even with 3/16" C-channel running across it in 2 places (FWIW, I built mine from 1/4" steel plate).

Also, be sure to match the amount of motor mount lift with the amount of lift the belly pan provides--this keeps the centerline of the crankshaft/mainshaft/t'case output shaft parallel to the ground...which keeps your fan square to the radiator and shroud, and also keeps your fan centered in the shroud--both good things.

In addition, I suggest you look at boxing in the lower front suspension link captures...these are the lowest hanging parts of your suspension, and are very easy to bend. Weld-on skid plates are very cheap (used to be less than $25 per pair), or just use some flat stock like I did. The steering box skid is another vital part--I used one from Kilby, it ran me $35, laser cut, powder coated 3/16" plate...use any of them, they are all pretty much the same. One final thing, add a engine oil pan skid plate to the list. I used one from Tera...it was designed for the 2002 and earlier TJ's, but it was a 5 minute fix to get it to fit the 2003+ (grind 1/4" off of the front drivers side corner to clear the exhaust)--$60 and it has saved the bottom of my oil pan on more than one occasion.

You are on the right track....just add some armor in those strategic places and go enjoy it.

[Joaquin Suave]

Though I'm not a Rubicon owner...

A super good friend of mine owns a 4x4 shop that is either #1 or #2 in the country for doing the Nth Degree long arm conversions (in volume) and by FAR #1 in doing the Kilby AirRock systems, so I've been under a lot of Rubies.

Nth Degree makes KILLER PRODUCT!!!!

You might want to plan ahead further...So that what mods you buy now might not conflict with future wants.

It sucks to spend $$$ on parts only to later find that you will have to pull them off because they conflict with another package.

It happens with my buddies clients all the time. And I seem to have and endless source of great slightly used Jeep parts for cheap or often free.

[goodtimes]

It happens with my buddies clients all the time. And I seem to have and endless source of great slightly used Jeep parts for cheap or often free.

I don't suppose long arms or coil-overs are ever part of this endless source of great used parts? :peepwall:

[Joaquin Suave]

I don't suppose long arms or coil-overs are ever part of this endless source of great used parts?

No, but there are piles of stock stuff. being a CJ owner, thats not much use to me. I have scored thing like air compressors, back up lights, tires, even a photovoltaic panel.

I am constantly amazed at the rich older guys and all the over the top bling bling gizmos they put on they're TJ's.

I look some us the upgrades and think to my self...."i could stay in Mexico for 1, 2, 3, 6, 9, months for that kind of money"

[goodtimes]

...think to my self...."i could stay in Mexico for 1, 2, 3, 6, 9, months for that kind of money"

I hear that. I want to re-work the chassis on my rubicon...but parts alone are going to be upwards of the cost of a used 80 series cruiser....

[Benjisan]

Thanks you all for the tips so far. I saw armor for those suspension links but thought that might be overkill but I suppose I should do it right and weld some on there.

As for planning the upgrade route, I couldn't agree more. I want to avoid spending money on parts only to remove those perfectly good parts for something new and/or bigger a few years later.

Speaking of upgrades, I recently saw a question on another forum that went something like, "What would you do different?" It seems like most people said something to the effect of, "Straight to 35's and a long-arm."

Oddly enough, my buddies all tell me the same thing, forget 33" tires and small lifts. Wheel it stock and then go straight to the 35's and a long arm. They say I'll eventually want 35's anyway and its better to skip all the junk in the middle and save the money.

I'm just going to wait and see how she handles off-road and then decide. I try to explain to him I don't really want a rock crawler perse and I'm looking more for "an adventure machine." 35" tires seem like a bit much for someone who would use it to go on hard rock trails only a handful of times a year. Plus, there is the expense...long arm kit, rework brakes, regear, cv shaft, expensive tires, etc.

[cshontz]

It seems like most people said something to the effect of, "Straight to 35's and a long-arm."

Sure. So you can increase your center of gravity, regear, fuss with driveline angles, diminish handling, and introduce undue strain unto your drivetrain.

That advice isn't bad, but its presumptuous. I know three things for certain: 1) 75% of all "lifted" Jeeps have more lift than they should. 2) 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot, and 3) the more you do to your Jeep, the more you have to do to your Jeep.

All-in-all, it just depends on how and where you want to roll - and I mean "roll" as in :smiley_drive:. But certainly don't let the rock crawling community dictate what you need unless that is what you're into. Refer to #3. ;)

[goodtimes]

Actually, the rock crawling community tends to shy away from long arms. They hang to low and are easy to bend. But, at some point (usually around 4" of lift), the short arms are at such a drastic angle relative to the frame that the ride and handling characeristics have deteriorated so much that long arms are about the only solution if you spend much time on the slab.

If highly technical trails (4.5+ on the old 5 point scale) are not in your future, long arms really don't become much of a problem. On easier trails, certain obstacles will still be a problem, but there simply aren't many of those obstacles. Honestly, I would go for long arms with 3.5+ inches of lift for a non-rock crawling rig...especially if you are doing any moderate to high speed travel down rough roads (baja). I really wish I would have gone that route.

On the 33 vs 35" debate....35's really do require alot more work...specifically re-gearing. It is a huge expense, even if you do the install yourself, you are looking at $700 for 2 rubicon gear sets and master install kits. Plan on another $200+ per axle for the labor if someone else does it.

[Wanderlusty]

I considered 35's for about as long as it took me to add up all the neccessary parts. 33's for me...

Honestly, I don't see 35's to be at all worth it. If you lay out big bucks, and live for the 4+ trails like the rock crawlers, then go 37's and REALLY spend some $$$.

The difference in ground clearance between 33's and 3 inch lift and 35's and 4.5 inch lift....is....just not worth it. Hold out your hand, look at your index finger, and decide if an amount of added ground clearance less than the length of your finger is worth $2k+.

In fact, a TJ on 33's with a nice tucked pan will actually have a better breakover angle than a TJ on 35's still sporting the stock skid....

As far as long arms vs. short arms....I like what doesn't cost me $...

I won't be seeing Baja any time soon, and drive like a grandpa anyway...(no offense go grandfathers)

As far as what skids, I have heard a lot of good about Nth. And from what I have read, they don't even require a BL, but provide a pipe that you jack up into the tunnel until it dimples the tunnel a little for proper T-case fitment. Correct me if I am mistaken.

[goodtimes]

... from what I have read, they don't even require a BL, but provide a pipe that you jack up into the tunnel until it dimples the tunnel a little for proper T-case fitment. Correct me if I am mistaken.

This is true...and not to cool IMO. You put a piece of pipe on top of your (aluminum!) t'case, and jack the case up until it bends the body tub...or breaks the t'case housing, whichever comes first (I've never heard of that happening..but I cringe when I think about it).

As for 35's being worth it...all depends on the trail you are on. There have been many many times where I rub the t'case skid plate I built--which is ~1.5" higher than the OE plate. If it were 1.5" lower, it would have been much more challenging, and in one case, it would have made the trail impassible. You cannot discount even an inch of ground clearance when you are on difficult trails. The challenge is finding just how much ground clearance you need for the trails you run, and modify your rig accordingly...as we all know (and have mentioned), each inch of extra ground clearance costs more than the previous one did...

[RunninRubicon]

I run a TeraFlex Belly-up pan. Gave me about 3" more ground clearance. Understand I run a 1" body lift already but it takes this to clear the tranny. I did this instead of a long-arm. They require a lower pan then stock to mount the in board mounts to the body. It does require a higher lift to compensate and/or bigger tires. To me this made better sense. It does require a rear CV drive-shaft. Got mine from Rubicon Express. I had to change my rear pinion ange because the lift was so effective. I now have no drive line vibrations and very rarely do I scrap my belly pan overy rocks. I run rock rails as well. This combo makes a very durable driveable rig that can do most anything one dares. Yes, I run 33". Lastly, I added Currie steering gear and drag-link. I added a Super Ring by Superior over my front diff it takes allot of abuse. Having spent lots of $$$ on several different venues over the years, I like this combo the best. I live in the southwest desert and we have mostly rocks and more even bigger rocks so ...yes I'm a rock crawler by default.:rappel:

[Benjisan]

Hmm, went to the Nthdegreemobility website and discovered they make all kinds of armor for the underbelly. Differential sliders, auto transmission skid, oilpan skid, transfer case skid and tuck. I like the idea of putting all that plate on my Jeep's vulnerable belly but here's my next question...

If I armored the lower control arms, steering box, differentials, oil pan, auto trans, and the TC with a tummy tuck...how much are my springs gonna sag with all that extra weight?

[RunninRubicon]

Hmm, went to the Nthdegreemobility website and discovered they make all kinds of armor for the underbelly. Differential sliders, auto transmission skid, oilpan skid, transfer case skid and tuck. I like the idea of putting all that plate on my Jeep's vulnerable belly but here's my next question...

If I armored the lower control arms, steering box, differentials, oil pan, auto trans, and the TC with a tummy tuck...how much are my springs gonna sag with all that extra weight?
I agree with you. I feel it is unecessary to add a steering box skid or an engine bay skid. Those things have never been in harm's way for me. I do run a 4" lift and 33" tires but a little care in tire placement has prevented any intrusion into these. Here in the southwestern deserts I need all the air movement and heat removal I can get out from under the hood. Holding it in with an engine by skid just makes no sense to me. The added weight of all this just sucks at the pump.

[goodtimes]

I agree with you. I feel it is unecessary to add a steering box skid or an engine bay skid. Those things have never been in harm's way for me. I do run a 4" lift and 33" tires but a little care in tire placement has prevented any intrusion into these. Here in the southwestern deserts I need all the air movement and heat removal I can get out from under the hood. Holding it in with an engine by skid just makes no sense to me. The added weight of all this just sucks at the pump.

Properly designed skid plates will not restrict air flow through the engine compartment. They also add very little weight in the big picture. My steering box skid weighs less than 10 pounds, and is below the frame...no air flow issues here. On the flip side though, it has kept my steering box off of the rocks many times. If you ever look at it, the box is in a very bad location on TJ's, it is just waiting for you to slip off of a 3' vertical step and smack it on top of the rock...at which time you end up leaving your rig on the trail while you run into town and spend $350 on a new steering box.

My oil pan skid plate weighs less than 7 pounds. It extends from the bell housing forward to about 2" in front of the oil pan, and is about 2" wider than the oil pan. It doesn't extend beyond the exhaust system (which wraps around the oil pan on the '03+ TJ's). No air flow issues, and what sucks worse than a rock through the oil pan?

My belly pan is a heavy SOB. 1/4" plate and 3/16" C-channel reinforcements. But it puts up with so much abuse that I have already bent it. Lighter is not always better....depends on your use.

If you spend much time on the harder trails, you know that you don't always have alot of options with tire placement. When you are faced with one or two choices, skid plates become very important. How many lines are there through the first obstacle on Hiway to Hell for a narrow vehicle like a TJ? How many lines are on the 3rd obstacle on Upper Ajax if you don't have a buggy? The trails dictate where you put your tires, not your vehicle.

If you are not pushing the envelope of what your rig is capable of, then skid plates become much less important, as you generally have more choices of tire placement and don't have volkswagon sized rocks trying to eat your jeep for breakfast. But never discount the need for skid plates on big rocks.
:safari-rig:

[RunninRubicon]

Properly designed skid plates will not restrict air flow through the engine compartment. They also add very little weight in the big picture. My steering box skid weighs less than 10 pounds, and is below the frame...no air flow issues here. On the flip side though, it has kept my steering box off of the rocks many times. If you ever look at it, the box is in a very bad location on TJ's, it is just waiting for you to slip off of a 3' vertical step and smack it on top of the rock...at which time you end up leaving your rig on the trail while you run into town and spend $350 on a new steering box.

My oil pan skid plate weighs less than 7 pounds. It extends from the bell housing forward to about 2" in front of the oil pan, and is about 2" wider than the oil pan. It doesn't extend beyond the exhaust system (which wraps around the oil pan on the '03+ TJ's). No air flow issues, and what sucks worse than a rock through the oil pan?

My belly pan is a heavy SOB. 1/4" plate and 3/16" C-channel reinforcements. But it puts up with so much abuse that I have already bent it. Lighter is not always better....depends on your use.

If you spend much time on the harder trails, you know that you don't always have alot of options with tire placement. When you are faced with one or two choices, skid plates become very important. How many lines are there through the first obstacle on Hiway to Hell for a narrow vehicle like a TJ? How many lines are on the 3rd obstacle on Upper Ajax if you don't have a buggy? The trails dictate where you put your tires, not your vehicle.

If you are not pushing the envelope of what your rig is capable of, then skid plates become much less important, as you generally have more choices of tire placement and don't have volkswagon sized rocks trying to eat your jeep for breakfast. But never discount the need for skid plates on big rocks.
:safari-rig:
I've driven both those several times....loved em both. Upper Ajar's waterfall allows little variation true though ....didn't require a skid. Hwy to Hell does indeed have boulders not rocks but also had options...still didn't risk bangin my oil pan or steering box. Just my opinion, like yours. Run with what you feel YOU need to. I just feel they are added weight for what they provide. I don't want to argue, I suspect I drive less aggressively then you. Maybe that's why I formulate such an opinion.

[goodtimes]

I've driven both those several times....loved em both. Upper Ajar's waterfall allows little variation true though ....didn't require a skid. Hwy to Hell does indeed have boulders not rocks but also had options...still didn't risk bangin my oil pan or steering box. Just my opinion, like yours. Run with what you feel YOU need to. I just feel they are added weight for what they provide. I don't want to argue, I suspect I drive less aggressively then you. Maybe that's why I formulate such an opinion.

No argueing here, just stating my opinion (and we all know about those). Every skid plate on my TJ has been up close and personal with rocks. Some people do consider me an aggressive driver (just don't confuse aggressive with fast). I have been known to put my jeep places where many people won't go...but if you have been over H2H, then you have been in some of those same places.

[RunninRubicon]

It's good to find another soul who loves Florence, Az. I feel it's the Moab of southern AZ. I just hope Martinez canyon doesn't close as the Coke Ovens are about to. I really love the back wall in that canyon. The views are drop dead gorgous. The road just keeps givin! Did Jack handle last week...benign.
Keep the rubber side down....didn't manage that last year on Upper Ajax-set'er on her side.

[goodtimes]

The only problem I have with FJ is the number of rednecks out there trashing the place. But it has such a great mix of trails...Martinez is probably my favorite...easy enough to get stockers through it, but has enough optional stuff to play on, and the scenery is simply spectacular once you start up the hill. I'll try again in a few weeks to get some folks gathered up for a run up there (it's been a while since I went through there).

[Beowulf]

Which skid did you decide on? I personally have the:
Nth TT
Nth Oilpan
Kilby Steering skid
Kilby Gas tank skid
JKS Mini Control arm skids
AEV Rocker Guard
Riddler Diff covers

This will pretty much guard you against most things unless you like really big rocks and are heavy on the petal.

I have all this and still wheel like it is made of glass. Of course it is my DD. I have to pay for it somehow.

[RunninRubicon]

Which skid did you decide on? I personally have the:
Nth TT
Nth Oilpan
Kilby Steering skid
Kilby Gas tank skid
JKS Mini Control arm skids
AEV Rocker Guard
Riddler Diff covers

This will pretty much guard you against most things unless you like really big rocks and are heavy on the petal.

I have all this and still wheel like it is made of glass. Of course it is my DD. I have to pay for it somehow.

I run a Superlift Super-ring front diff cover, Currie Steering (drag and tie-rod links), My front Rugged Ridge bumper has steering box protection, My Fabtech lift has skids on the lower links axle and frame ends, and I run a Teraflex belly-up pan that gives me 2 1/2inches more ground-clearance with-out having to go to a long arm (some argue the long arms hang on rock vs short) and keeps my center of gravity lower then a 6" long arm lift. Don't get me wrong I'd love a Nth degree gyro 6" w/ 35" BFG rock-crawlers....but this is a DD and I can't see running $350. tires down the highway 75-80% of there life. Besides I'm spending all my money on an Engel frig for my trailer and a utility drawer to mount everything inside in a more organized manner. ..I just can't have everything I want!@#$%&*??

[goodtimes]

..I just can't have everything I want!@#$%&*??

:xxrotflma

Welcome to the club!

Good call on the engle too.....that will probably be my next major mod (after reworking the suspension).

[RunninRubicon]

I saw a Long arm add-on from Nth degree that made me salivate!. The lower control arms were designed to stay up and out of harms way and only added 1/4" to the drop in whatever belly-pan you presently have. You did need to have a 4" lift already installed though to convert.
Have you decided what to do for a suspension lift or are you one whom may very well build your own?
I must admit I am always looking for a better mouse trap when it comes to suspensions. Full-traction's 4" looks very appealing to me. I like my Fabtech but at highway speed going on and off the throttle for traffic my Jeep makes allot of Yaw or tail waggle. More then I would like. Full Traction's tri-angulated upper contol arm feature would eliminate that and the need for a rear track-bar. It's tempting me:exclaim: