hot water heater

[CAPTAIN COORS]

Linda said, “no more trips without hot water for showers”. I need help finding an in-line, (between the tank and shower head) on demand water heater. We have ruled out portable or engine heating devices. This would be the last piece of creature comfort for our rig.

[stevenmd]

I think BrownChurch has one. Google them and search their website. Otherwise get in contact with CAMPA and see if they will sell their trailer hot water heater/shower separately or source it for you.

[Desertdude]

I have researched this one to death... hot water comes with many trade offs - including space, power to operate, ease of use, maintenance. I have a couple of different set ups.

The Zodi (http://www.zodi.com/web-content/Consumer/zodiextremeshower.html), the Helton heat exchanger, and a fancy Isotherm marine water heater.

The Helton (http://www.helton.com.au/)works well, the 12v pump is a bit light but it does the job and you can use creek water if available.

The Isotherm (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|10172|319676&id=606334) along with a water tank and 12v Surflo pump is amazing, but you can be seduced into using too much water when showering. It takes a fairly large inverter to run, heat water while driving down the road ( yes something else to monitor) you also need clean water to operate, hard to use a bucket of creek water in this closed system. And this is a pricey set up for a shower.

The last DV trip we decided to go back to low tech and brought along the Zodi (http://www.zodi.com/web-content/Consumer/zodiextremeshower.html) - basically a pump/tank that you heat up on a stove - this is so basic and solid that it is hard to want to keep the fancy isotherm, which takes up valuable space and weight.

While camping it does not take much too make you feel like a million dollars again - give me 1 gallon of warm/hot water without to much monitoring, set up or cost, and I am good to go!

[articulate]

Mmmm... the hot water thing is tough because, like WaterDude said, it comes with some trade offs. But the "happy wife" thing is a pretty good upside . . .
http://www.hotcampshowers.com/ does what you want, but uses your engine as the heat source. So it may be more involved than you want.

Glind (http://www.glind.com.au/htm/default.asp) out of Australia is virtually the same concept. Except they have a pretty girl in their advertisement.

[Desertdude]

from the Glind site

Sand Spear - Sand spear with jet tube is designed to extract fresh water out of sand.

very interesting...

[stevenmd]

Glind (http://www.glind.com.au/htm/default.asp) out of Australia is virtually the same concept. Except they have a pretty girl in their advertisement.
Well the hits on their site just went up...:victory:

[CAPTAIN COORS]

Thanks guys for input, just hoping something new had been developed that I missed, you know we don’t need hot water just warm water to take the chill off, you would think some smart guy would come up with a good idea

[articulate]

I remember seeing these shower heads for sale in Peru that heated (or warmed) the water as it shot out. The technology is out there. Perhaps not available in 12v DC?

Several months ago, I thought about using a drop-in or "submersible" 12 volt heater in the tank. This is pretty feasible, and inexpensive: http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/hotwater.html

Would have to drill a hole in the tank and insert a fitting to thread it into place - not a terrible amount of work. But you could wire it through a switch so it doesn't have to be on constantly. I think I may do this method.

[pskhaat]

Very interesting. That 600 watt one at 12v would consume what 50 amps? 300 watt one is a little more interesting at 25 amps, but that's some serious current requirements for a rig.

[articulate]

Ummmm, you've got a point there. These are designed for stock tanks (with mucho agua). I wonder if there are smaller heaters like this available?

The search continues to go where no man has gone before.

[CAPTAIN COORS]

thanks mark for the link for the submersible" 12 volt heater, this maybe the only way to go

[bigreen505]

What are the downsides of the Zodi? It seems like an almost ideal option.

[pwc]

Ummmm, you've got a point there. These are designed for stock tanks (with mucho agua). I wonder if there are smaller heaters like this available?

The search continues to go where no man has gone before.

Those are just regular water heater elements though. you can buy those at any hardware store. :)

Might not be a bad idea though....small tank, switch up front and turn it on before you plan on stopping.

Actually, I'm thinking a flat plate heat exchanger (http://frybrid.com/parts.htm#heat) plumbed into the heating path. Then circulate the the water back to a tank that's maybe 10 gallons. Put one of those heater coils in it too to help heat if you are showering in the morning.

Even at 25 amps, if you have something like a Hawker 1200 with 44amp hours, you could run that 25 amp unit for an hour solid and not hurt the battery. If you have backup, you have nothing to worry about. If the truck is running, you don't need to worry about it at all.

[elcoyote]

I agree that the ZODI is the simplest solution if we are talking about their Hotman Extreme unit which is basically a Hudson bug sprayer. I am not a fan of their shower head which takes 2 hands to operate. I have replaced mine with a common sink sprayer from the hardware store that has a push button that allows for one handed operation. What I like the most about the Zodi is that it is completly self contained and I am not tethered to propane cylinder or electrical source. Our average time to heat it up to 102 is about 7-10 mins on the camp stove. The added benefits are that it doesn't require any late night wrenching on the rig and for $119 you're good to go! Oh yeah, and the really good news is that my wife likes it too :)

If you want to get fancy with an on demand propane fired system, the most compact and efficient system I have seen on the market is the Omega.
http://www.omega2000group.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=69
It would still require some work to install i.e. tank, pump etc.

[rusty_tlc]

What are the downsides of the Zodi? It seems like an almost ideal option.
They need a continious flow of water or they melt down, according to a friend who ruined one.

[elcoyote]

They need a continious flow of water or they melt down, according to a friend who ruined one.

That is if you are referring to the Zodi Hot Tap Series, not the Hot Man Extreme.

[articulate]

Those are just regular water heater elements though. you can buy those at any hardware store. :)

Might not be a bad idea though....small tank, switch up front and turn it on before you plan on stopping.
I'm reviving this to come back to your comment here. You opened my eyes! Having never dealt with replacing/fixing/working on a hot water heater in my home or elsewhere, I had no idea. Beautiful point you make, bro! Beautiful.

Now I assume, though, that these hardware store heater elements (http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1276817&cp=&pg=2&parentPage=search&sr=1&searchId=19740747581&origkw=heater+element&kw=heater+element&parentPage=search&searchId=19740852001) use 120v power. And they all seem to be upwards of 1440 frickin' watts.

Some how, the 12v elements for 300 watts (http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/hotwater.html) are more practical.

I'm thinking about Scott's comment:

Very interesting. That 600 watt one at 12v would consume what 50 amps? 300 watt one is a little more interesting at 25 amps, but that's some serious current requirements for a rig.
Like Cap'n said, we're not looking to make boiling water here. We just want to warm it up. What, run the heater for 20 minutes maybe as we pull into camp . . . Is it too unsafe or impractical to do?


Input?






Edit: A little searching found a "tankless on-demand" (AKA in-line) water heater for Marine/RV use at this page (http://www.plumbingsupply.com/eemaxso.html) about 1/3rd down. Note that they require 120v and are nearly $300. Cap'n, this might be the sort of thing you wanted in the beginning. Got a power inverter? If so, for $300 you're back in the expedition business with Linda.

[blupaddler]

So without me filling up a 1 gallon container of water and pouring out over a minute...What is 1gpm? Or any idea of something I can compare this too?

[Tucson T4R]

This is a little over kill unless you are just using it in a base camp. Last week I tried out the Zodie X-40 Hot water heater. What I found was I had to replace the weak hose clamps with real screw down hose clamps on the bottom of the heater and on the output of the pump. After that it worked reliably.

One drawback was the burner adjustment is only a 90 degree valve so it was over sensitive and would be dificult to get set right for the shower. What we ended doing was using the carry case with a garbage bag in it to hold the supply water. Then we recirculated the water while heating until the entire supply of about 5 gallons was up to our desired temp. Then you just turn off the burner and pump the pre-heated water for you shower...no worries.:victory:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/bgarland40/07%20Richmond%20Basin/RichmondBasin07047.jpg

[njtaco]

Just some thoughts here...


Homeowner water heater elements are 240V usually, about 1500 watts, 38 ohms.
This is too much resistance for 12V, not enough heat made. (3.78 watts)

There are 120V models available, but IMO, they will not work well.

A 300 watt 12V element needs 25 amps to push through .48 ohms...manageable, but not ideal.

Using the 600 watt, .96 ohm, 24V element (sold above) in a 12V system will halve the needed amps (to 12A), and produce half the heat (150 watts). Driving all day will produce plenty of hot water with little effect on the truck. A thermostat on the tank will prevent overheating, and avoid overuse of the available power.

As noted earlier, a 70+/- amp hour battery dedicated to this project would keep a small tank warm for quite a while. Also, the warmer the water is going into the tank (start with a solar bag) the less draw for hot water later.

Wiring to the element plays a big part, too. Less line loss=more volts (and watts) at the tank=more hot water.

So... is my math right? What are your collective thoughts on this idea?

Regarding the GPM question: Run your home shower at the lowest acceptable flow into a 5 gal bucket, and time it. Keep dropping pressure till it takes 5 minutes to fill. This will seem like forever, of course. This will also be 1GPM. A typical RV water supply (demand) pump provides from 2 to 3 GPM in the best of circumstances, at about 40 PSI. My supply at home is about 60-70 PSI. Yours is probably close to that.

I hope this helped, more than hurt. :smilies27

[OutbacKamper]

IMO 12volt water heaters are about as practical as 12volt air conditioners. What I mean is that they are theorectically possible, but not the most efficient choice. If you have to run your engine most of the time because of the heavy amp draw, then wouldn't it be more practical to use coolant from the running engine in a heat exchanger (such as the Glind and Helton systems mentioned earlier)?

A friend in Australia has what I consider to be the ultimate, expedition style,hot water shower. It is also the lightest, simplest and cheapest system I have seen. It consists of a canvas bag (about 2 1/2 gallon capacity) a short hose, valve & shower head attached to the bottom of the bag. He hangs the bag from a tree branch, roof rack etc. and fills it 3/4 full of ambient temperature water. Then add one billy can of boiling water, mix and shower (gravity feed). With a little experimentation to determine the ideal amount of cold and boiling water to mix, the water temperature is actually more consistant than my heat exchanger sytem on the 4wheel camper.

Cheers
Mark

[njtaco]

Thinking out loud again...

If my 240V, two element (2x1500Watt) 40 gallon water heater takes an hour to heat up to 120 degrees, wouldn't a 12V, 150 watt, single element in a 2 gallon tank take an hour, too? Maybe less? This would provide two showers (mixed with cold water.)

This is dirty math at best, but you get the idea...

[fisher205]

I haven't seen the Zodie's and have actually used a weed sprayer. Paint it partly black and it heats up almost as well as my old solar shower. We sometimes supplament with warm water on the stove. The problem I see is that these electric pump systems all will use more water. This water is in the potable tanks and you are hauling a lot of water (weight) just to have the convenice of a hot shower. We only shower if there is a water source nearby. I use only a hand pump with my system to help conserve water and power. I know it's a Luddite thing, but is reliable and you don't seem to waste as much if you have to hand pump it.

[cruiseroutfit]

I'm very happy with my engine mounted heat exchanger... :D

http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/content_images/photogallery/Skyline_Swell_2006/Slyline_Swell%20(10).jpg

Its a great setup for me... it only takes a couple of minutes to warm up after the engines been sitting overnight, and I like to warm up my motor before I head out... so no loss there. :D

[spressomon]

I'm very happy with my engine mounted heat exchanger... :D

http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/content_images/photogallery/Skyline_Swell_2006/Slyline_Swell%20(10).jpg

Its a great setup for me... it only takes a couple of minutes to warm up after the engines been sitting overnight, and I like to warm up my motor before I head out... so no loss there. :D


Ditto. I added a hand throttle to my 100 for winching...and it serves second duty as a temp regulator for the HH!

[cruiseroutfit]

Ditto. I added a hand throttle to my 100 for winching...and it serves second duty as a temp regulator for the HH!

I use the hand throttle on my FJ40 too :D

I've done a couple installs for folks where we plumb it after the heater control valve (which essentially controls the amount of coolant entering the heat exchanger)... That way you use the heater contol selector on your dash to control your shower :cool:

[Desertdude]

something like this one...

http://homepage.mac.com/desertdude/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-10-29%2020.48.59%20-0700/Image-F08EFE1A48F411DA.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/desertdude/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-10-29%2020.48.59%20-0700/Image-F08EE84C48F411DA.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/desertdude/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-10-29%2020.48.59%20-0700/IMG_0012.JPG

2 years and still going...

full Tacoma install photos (http://homepage.mac.com/desertdude/PhotoAlbum105.html)

[CAPTAIN COORS]

I'am going with a submersible electric hot water heater elements, plan on installing parts this weekend, if all goes well, i'll post some pics of the installation and some info as to how well it heats the water

[CAPTAIN COORS]

finished the instillation of the submersible water heater element, seems to work ok, cheap at around $60, will field test it and let all know how it worked

[njtaco]

Which element did you use? (Voltage?)

[CAPTAIN COORS]

12 volt, 300 watt, looks small in a 20 gallon tank but it can put out some serious heat

[Scott Brady]

Nice job Randy. That will take the chill off :)

[articulate]

finished the instillation of the submersible water heater element, seems to work ok, cheap at around $60, will field test it and let all know how it worked
That's a great place for the tank. Excellent use of space, I think.

So yeah, the heater element and tank fitting???? What's the scoop? And did you have to do a battery bank in the tool box for this or have you always had two yellow tops back there? Are you running with 3 batteries?

I think something like this is the perfect solution for simplcity. I can't wait to check it out.

Mark

[CAPTAIN COORS]

i just added the second yellow top, like TIM THE TOOLMAN saids "you can't have too much power", got the heating element from www.hydrogenappliances.com and the bulkhead fitting from WWW.PLASIC-MART.COM, the only problem i had with the instillation was the switch, it was too small to handle the 25 amps (it got real hot) i'am not a very good electrician but i'am learning

[kcowyo]

Nice work Captain! :clapsmile

[articulate]

ARGH ARGH ARGH!

Gotcha.....you are the pioneer with that drop in heating element then. Some of the other boys brought up the amp requirements and all that jive, as though this would't be practical. I see that you have a thermometer attached, very cool. I've got to do this.

I take it that your intention is to get a feel for how fast the water gets to a reasonable temperature from say, oh, 60 degrees (pulling that from my hip pocket)? If it has a switch, you probably had to install a relay, too?

Nice work. I'm now very inquisitive.....

[Mlachica]

i just added the second yellow top, like TIM THE TOOLMAN saids "you can't have too much power", got the heating element from www.hydrogenappliances.com (http://www.hydrogenappliances.com) and the bulkhead fitting from WWW.PLASIC-MART.COM (http://WWW.PLASIC-MART.COM), the only problem i had with the instillation was the switch, it was too small to handle the 25 amps (it got real hot) i'am not a very good electrician but i'am learning

Great job!!! I like it A LOT, and the simplicity is outstanding. I can't wait to hear your real world review.

[flyingwil]

i just added the second yellow top, like TIM THE TOOLMAN saids "you can't have too much power", got the heating element from www.hydrogenappliances.com and the bulkhead fitting from WWW.PLASIC-MART.COM, the only problem i had with the instillation was the switch, it was too small to handle the 25 amps (it got real hot) i'am not a very good electrician but i'am learning

Do you have a relay?

Looks good. I too am interested in the real world test results. Keep us posted!

[Tucson T4R]

i just added the second yellow top, like TIM THE TOOLMAN saids "you can't have too much power", got the heating element from www.hydrogenappliances.com and the bulkhead fitting from WWW.PLASIC-MART.COM, the only problem i had with the instillation was the switch, it was too small to handle the 25 amps (it got real hot) i'am not a very good electrician but i'am learning

Flyingwil suggested the right solution to your "hot switch" problem. Just like when you add extra driving lites, you don't want the current feeding the lites to run through your switch. Use the switch to just pick or activate the relay. Then the relay points will connect the 12V source to your heater element. That way, the only current going through your switch is the minimal draw required to pick your relay. You defintley want to use a relay curcuit to supply anything that is drawing any significant current.

Does that make sense?

[CAPTAIN COORS]

no relay, but i will try to install one, how big of a relay with 300 watts, 12 volts, 25 amps?

[Tucson T4R]

I'm not sure of the relay ratings. I would think an electrical supply place should be able to recomend the correct size for your application. Similar to sizing a fuse...understand what your total current draw will be and then pick a size larger than that to give yourself an operational buffer.

Since your circuit is drwaing 25 amps, I would look for a relay that is rated at 30 amps or more.

[CAPTAIN COORS]

first test run, 20 gallons @ 62 deg., 3 hours raised the temp to 89 deg, everything seems to be working fine

$25 poly tank - $50 heating element - hot shower at the end of a long day priceless

[Mlachica]

:bowdown: :clapsmile Very cool Capt!

Does the 20 gallons include drinking water? Or do you guys take really long showers :rolleyes:

Is water quality affected by the heating element as far as taste and odor?

[CAPTAIN COORS]

the water is not for drinking but we do keep it clean so we could use for drinking if needed, 20 gallons will last us for 4 days for showers and cleaning up after meals (we do share with the less fortunate)

[Grouseman]

I'm wondering if a person had say a 5-10 gallon tank, how long would it take to heat up to say 100?

5 gallons would be enough for two people to clean up each day.

This item might be a great answer for hot water showering while camping.

SS

Update. I asked about a 5-8 gallon tank with the 300 watt heater and they said it would take 10 minutes to heat the water up to 100. If we could figure out a very easy way to use the battery in your truck for heating the water that would be great. I have a blue top, but after a few heat ups it would probably need charging.
I do have a heat exchanger on my cruiser but it does not heat the water up well.

SS

[Rezarf <><]

Very cool stuff, thanks for the thread!

Anything you would change? Which bulkhead mount did you purchase?

Thanks!

Drew

[CAPTAIN COORS]

WWW.PLASTIC-MART.COM

1" POLYPROPYLENE FITTING PART #10485

requires 1.75 inch hole saw, also you must be able to reach inside the tank, i just cut a hole in the top and sealed it up after the instillation

[ujoint]

Just got through reading all of these threads since I plan on adding my water tank & possibly a heater. I'm still not sure what I want to do!

[dd113]

this is a great thread; can someone educate me a bit on how the fittings work....I would want a pump running to a spray head with an on/off switch either built in or I can attatch it.

I guess this is not the hot shower application!


I use what we called int he Army an Aussie shower. It is about a 3 gal canvas bucket with an open top and a hanging strap on top. On the bottom is a shower head that rotates to open flow. Never seen one FS and looked all over for it on the web. I will find a PIC eventually

[CAPTAIN COORS]

dd113

the bulkhead fitting has a female 1" npt thread to match the heating element thread, cut a 1.75" hole in the tank, place the fitting through the hole, is held in place with supplied nut, of course you have to get your hand inside the tank, if all goes well it will not leak! the wash board (see pic) is mounted on the roof top frame, this was a simple solution for me, for a more elaborate setup see scott's thread

[adventureduo]

Reviving a old thread.

Anyone else try this setup yet?

Im thinking about going this route.

[Grouseman]

Check with C.Coors, he has THE setup. I'm going to do one like his in the very near future.

Grouseman

[adventureduo]

Yeah, i know he did it.. was wondering if anyone else did it too?

Coors, is your setup still working good?

[pskhaat]

Temperate Switched Relays?

Anyone know of any? Using any?

[CAPTAIN COORS]

yes the heating element is still working, no problems, had the temp up to 103 (20 gallons) this is really the only way to go, cheap, simple and it works!

[Boston Mangler]

I am looking for a solution that will have a tank that holds drinking water as well, one tank, 2 uses (drinking and shower)

[Grouseman]

BM,

I'm thinking the 12 volt hot water heater is THE system for showers, cleaning, etc. Then buy the bottled water by the case, packs easily. That is my present plan.:wings:

Grouseman

[Boston Mangler]

Then buy the bottled water by the case, packs easily.

No, that is exactly what i am trying to avoid!

I want one tank to deal with for both uses.

[Tucson T4R]

No, that is exactly what i am trying to avoid!

I want one tank to deal with for both uses.

I have a 15 gal tank on my trailer. I have found that it's difficult to keep it clean enough for perfect drinking water. I know is clean but it still has a taste to it that I don't like. I now primarily use the tank water for washing/cleaning and I carry good drinking water in an Igloo water cooler and two Scepter water cans.

I do chlorinate the tank and flush it out before trips so I can drink the water if needed, I have just found the Scepters and my Igloo cooler to provide better tasting drinking water.

[Boston Mangler]

I have a 15 gal tank on my trailer. I have found that it's difficult to keep it clean enough for perfect drinking water. I know is clean but it still has a taste to it that I don't like. I now primarily use the tank water for washing/cleaning and I carry good drinking water in an Igloo water cooler and two Scepter water cans.

I do chlorinate the tank and flush it out before trips so I can drink the water if needed, I have just found the Scepters and my Igloo cooler to provide better tasting drinking water.

Copy that! Thanks!

[Grouseman]

Bump...

[PCRover]

I thought about using this 12V heater solution for my trailer, but then after some thinking I don't want to kill my batteries just to heat up water that is needed for only a few minutes for a shower or such. I use my trailer for base camping, not for expedition trips, so the battery might not be getting a charge for quite some time. One possible energy saving solution would be to have a smaller 5g tank for the heated water separate from a larger cold water tank. This would use a lot less power to heat up and would be easier to keep hot over a period of time.

The 12v heating element is a great idea, and will be a simple solution for a lot of water heating needs.

[PCRover]

Where can I get one of those super cool power distribution centers??

[tacojosh]

I met this guy in Moab this year, he had a booth set-up and he said he would sell the system to me as soon as they where available to the public. I had a terrible wire mess with 6 relays and a fuse block witch had over 38 wires alone for those connections! I eliminated all the relay wires and fuse block wires now!
The only place I know to get this thing is here: www.4x4spod.com
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/angelastro/Source_2.gif
http://www.4x4s-pod.com/Images/500-800k_Installed_3.jpg
The are letting me try thier new switch panel also which I am going to test for them.

[PCRover]

Thanks! It is a very cool product.

[Grouseman]

What about a 1500 or 2000 watt power invertor that is powered by the battery in your truck? Then have the typical 110 volt hot water heater. Is this a possiblity? Inquiring minds NEED to know.:) I'm down to weeks for my next big trip and I don't have a hot water setup yet.


Grouseman

[Desertdude]

What about a 1500 or 2000 watt power invertor that is powered by the battery in your truck? Then have the typical 110 volt hot water heater. Is this a possiblity? Inquiring minds NEED to know.:) I'm down to weeks for my next big trip and I don't have a hot water setup yet.
Grouseman

It is possible- see it here (http://web.mac.com/desertdude/iWeb/80.series.landcruiser/deck.drawer.system.html)

I still think the Helton in the Tacoma (http://homepage.mac.com/desertdude/PhotoAlbum105.html) rocks for inexpensive simplicity

[pskhaat]

DesertDude, this kind of stuff brings tears to my eyes. How'd you do it?

[Desertdude]

I took a few deep breaths and then applied the right amount of aim and pressure. :Wow1: - When it is done properly, it has a factory look and basically disappears. :safari-rig:

(I also had a bit of practice on my Tacoma first) :shakin:

[Super Doody]

It is possible- see it here (http://web.mac.com/desertdude/iWeb/80.series.landcruiser/deck.drawer.system.html)

I still think the Helton in the Tacoma (http://homepage.mac.com/desertdude/PhotoAlbum105.html) rocks for inexpensive simplicity


DD,

Nice set up. What's the name of the yellow shower head/pump unit?

[Grouseman]

Bump...

[cruiseroutfit]

DD,

Nice set up. What's the name of the yellow shower head/pump unit?

If you are referring to the setup in his Tacoma, it is a Helton unit. Undoubtedly they rebadge the unit for thier kits (Turbo Shower) as I have seen them for sale in different configurations. They seem to work pretty good, out of ~100 I've put in service I know of two issue, one was DD's and a switch failed (turned out to be an easy fix) and the other was just emailed to me yesterday and I havn't seen the unit. They are NOT a high volume unit, but I prefer it that way. Most the the showering I have done in the last couple years is out of a Scepter can, I don't want to waste precious water and the low volume of the Helton pump is just enough IMO to have a comfortable shower. I've seen many with Sureflo, etc. pumps and make no mistake they really make for a nice shower, but they also eat up precious water. That being said, if you camp near a reliable water source most often... go with a higher volume unit :D

[Desertdude]

Thanks Kurt for explaining...

After two years with the Helton in the Tacoma I am extremely happy with how it works. There is enough heat accumulated during driving to not have to run the engine for at least 4 showers. (approx- 3-4 gallons of water)

[articulate]

WWW.PLASTIC-MART.COM

1" POLYPROPYLENE FITTING PART #10485

requires 1.75 inch hole saw, also you must be able to reach inside the tank, i just cut a hole in the top and sealed it up after the instillation
Oh Captain My Captain:
I'm moving forward with this mod. Care to share how you sealed the tank after cutting the hole in the top? Use a hack saw to make the hole? How's it sealed up? VERY curious.

Muchas gracias.

Marko D.

[CAPTAIN COORS]

i used a piece of plactic larger than the hole (about 2" per/side) and attached it with all-purpose adhesive spray, how good is the seal? not sure, we do not use the water in this tank for dranking, so far no problems

[dbolton]

Desertdude said:

"After two years with the Helton in the Tacoma I am extremely happy with how it works. There is enough heat accumulated during driving to not have to run the engine for at least 4 showers. (approx- 3-4 gallons of water)"

Hold it...you use your Helton without the engine off? And it heats up the water ok?

I absolutely believe you (on anything, really), but I've had this thing in my truck for two years and it never occured to me to use it without the engine running...(running outside to try it out)

:jumping:

[solarskipper]

Folks,

I am working on a hot H2O tank, but have a question. I understand the need for a vent tube, but what are you using in the way of a filter? It seems that anything foam would allow sand and dirt at some point. What are you doing to address this?

Thanks

[Desertdude]

Hold it...you use your Helton without the engine off? And it heats up the water ok?


Yeah it works. I set up fast ;)




Folks,

I am working on a hot H2O tank, but have a question. I understand the need for a vent tube, but what are you using in the way of a filter? It seems that anything foam would allow sand and dirt at some point. What are you doing to address this?

Thanks


I am using a simple RV inline filter (http://www.rvupgradestore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=178) I am also careful where I get the source water from.

Using the Helton System there is a bit of coarse foam at the bottom of the 12v pump and I keep this off the bottom of the bucket if I am using creek water.

[solarskipper]

Thanks for the quick reply. Actually I am talking about the filter on the vent tube for those folks who have onboard H2O tanks. I assume they have a vent tube to accommodate the elevation changes and the volume reduction in H2O due to usage.

Air has to get in and out, but then so can dust… I am hoping someone has solved this issue already.

Desertdude, thanks again the simple under hood unity is looking easier and easier ha

[Tress]

Just wanted to add my tow cents, still new to all of this and jumped in head first, after researching this topic for a few months without the help of this forum i came across http://www.excelamerica.com/calentadores_eng.htm unit and ended up getting off ebay. No power required, its a propane unit, not too big but should provide plenty of hot water, ill let you all know how it works once im all set up.

[articulate]

Actually I am talking about the filter on the vent tube for those folks who have onboard H2O tanks. I assume they have a vent tube to accommodate the elevation changes and the volume reduction in H2O due to usage.

Air has to get in and out, but then so can dust… I am hoping someone has solved this issue already.
Hmm, good point. I haven't put in a filter on the vent tube. Off the top of my head, go to an auto parts store and get an inline fuel filter. Clamp it to the end of your 1/4" vent line.

My vent line is so long that I've never worried about it. But a fuel filter would only be less than $10 to add.

[Desertdude]

Sorry for the density :yikes:

On the vent tube;

I have only used the water filler as an air escape. I have a vent tube I use when filling, it has a valve I open when I want to speed up the filling process.

I would rather keep it sealed from all the dust. :D

[ntsqd]

Mark's idea is how I vent older fuel tanks. Should be good to 50 microns or so, 10 microns if you opt for a clunkier EFI filter.

[solarskipper]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the input. I took it all in. I ordered all the major parts today, tank, pump, and heater. I have / will pick up the balance when I run by Home Depot and parts store

Mark, after crunching the BTU requirements I ended up going with the 300 watt heater. It is tough on the 250 amp hrs of batteries but seems to be the only achievable system. It will still take almost 5 hours to raise 20 gallons 30 degrees. Of course I am hoping for a little help from the sun to provide free energy.

I think Captain Coor’s (he actually admits drinking that stuff ha) 3 hours and 27 degree rise was helped along by the sun’s heat. According to my numbers, it should take over 4 hours to lift 20 gallons almost 30 degrees. So I am using his experience has a guide that the tank can get a significant addition of heat but the sun it self. I have no way of adding that in to the equation except using his field results. So 300 watts it was.

Vent: I like your idea Desertdude, mount a valve and keep it closed except when using it. Would be great for the flat / lower elevations but with Tahoe less than 2 hours away, I spend a few days up a 6500+ so I need to be able to vent a little bit more than you guys.

Ntsqd and Marks idea on the inline fuel filter was what I have been kicking around. I am not sure that the inline fuel filter is set up for removing patricides from a gaseous media. They are meant to operate in a liquid media. I was think of a way to hack in a breather (oil type) or a lawn mower filter set up… or maybe I just loop the tube down a wrap cheese cloth over it…….

Dang, typical I am over thinking this way to much. I usually just drink water out of an old 8 year old blue plastic can… and if we are lucky I rinse it with baking soda before I fill it and throw it in the truck. It’s just if you are going to build it… build it right.

I will post some pics and progress report when things start to come together. Now I just hope all get here before the mid-April Mojave trail / Death Valley run. Right now a pizza and cold beer are calling my name

[ntsqd]

The fuel filter media will pass either a gas or a liquid (try blowing thru one), but block solids larger than some certain size.

I prefer "analysis paralysis" to "over-thinking".........
:)

[Lynn]

So, the on-demand water heaters have been mentioned a couple of times. Has anyone set one up?

I used household on-demand heaters when living in Spain, Germany, and Turkey, and some were OK. The older one I had in Spain, though, you had to watch. If you ran the hot water, then turned the water off, and back on again within a few minutes, it would come out scalding hot. Matter of fact, steam would come out of the faucet.

Granted, technology marches on, but I still wonder how well an on-demand heater would work with a push-button sprayer type shower head. Could be dangerous.

[Tucson T4R]

So, the on-demand water heaters have been mentioned a couple of times. Has anyone set one up?

I used household on-demand heaters when living in Spain, Germany, and Turkey, and some were OK. The older one I had in Spain, though, you had to watch. If you ran the hot water, then turned the water off, and back on again within a few minutes, it would come out scalding hot. Matter of fact, steam would come out of the faucet.

Granted, technology marches on, but I still wonder how well an on-demand heater would work with a push-button sprayer type shower head. Could be dangerous.


I use the Zodi X-40 for longer base camp stays. It has the same issue. When fired up, you need to have continuous water flow or it will turn into a steam generator. The hot watr temp control is touchy and it would be easy to cook yourself if used during a shower. I use it to recycle water in a container until the entire water source is up to a good tempature, then I turn the burner off and just pump the at temp shower water. Not the best system, but it does heat water quickly.

[Green Ganesha]

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=130524&postcount=7

[stevenmd]

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=130524&postcount=7
Trevor - that omega 200 unit... does it require a pump also or can it suck the water out of a bucket on its own power?

[Green Ganesha]

Trevor - that omega 200 unit... does it require a pump also or can it suck the water out of a bucket on its own power?

My Omega 2000 heater requires a pump. They also sell a "zero pressure" version, which I'm guessing maybe doesn't. (Not sure what "zero pressure" refers to.) But if you're looking for something portable to draw from a bucket, the Omega 2000 may be a little overkill. It's better suited to a more permanent installation, such as on a trailer. (Mine draws from the trailer's pressurized water tanks.)

[solarskipper]

Touché Ntsd ha

I should have seen that coming…… at the risk of sounding old, I grew up when you could work on a car without a degree in Computer Science. I have from time to time done a road side diagnostic on a fuel filter…….usually not the problem but made you look like you knew what the heck you were talking about ha

I was talking about whether the filter material would be as effective in air as it is in fluid. That is why I was thinking about an “adapted” old style oil breather.

I would go on but I already feel the analysis paralysis coming on. Gonna have to steal that term, it's just too good to not use in real life

[ntsqd]

Touché Ntsd ha

I should have seen that coming…… at the risk of sounding old, I grew up when you could work on a car without a degree in Computer Science. I have from time to time done a road side diagnostic on a fuel filter…….usually not the problem but made you look like you knew what the heck you were talking about ha

I was talking about whether the filter material would be as effective in air as it is in fluid. That is why I was thinking about an “adapted” old style oil breather.

I would go on but I already feel the analysis paralysis coming on. Gonna have to steal that term, it's just too good to not use in real life
Be my guest. I stole it from a Colorado K5'er who, AFAIK, coined the term. :)

I believe the gas vs. liquid filtration to be a non-issue. It has proved to be the case in a single example......

[womacje]

http://www.excelonlinestore.com/servlet/the-264/Electric-110V-Tankless-Water/Detail

Anyone used one of these yet? I'm looking for a smaller unit to use than the Eccotemps and the other large on demand water systems. I am running an inverter in the truck.

When i used this in a hotel in Brazil a decade ago, it worked great, so long as you didn't reach up to adjust the direction of the shower-head, its shocking!