Tvan

[jerdog53]

Howdy all!

I am really surprised there hasn't been any posts about this here. Our friends in Oz have seen them for sure but most Americans haven't yet i have found.

This expedition camper trailer is built by Track Trailer (http://www.tracktrailer.com) and is called the Tvan! It is the most awesome off road camp/tent trailer I have run across on the net! Two problems with is I have seen (1) it is not imported into the states as of yet and (2) its a bit pricey in the 25K range.

I don't work for them but I want to make all of you aware of this product and when you visit the web sight fill out the information request and ask them when they will start to import them, the more of us ask the more interest it will generate a some thing is bound to happen.

Here is a few shots I have found of the Tvan on the net.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q182/jerdog53/Tvan/Tvan3.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q182/jerdog53/Tvan/b349.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q182/jerdog53/Tvan/631c.jpg


http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q182/jerdog53/Tvan/18bf.jpg



:luxhello:

[RunninRubicon]

Nice pics. What kind of suspension does it run? Looks like it has merit though for the price it ought to! thanks for the insights.:sunflower

[jerdog53]

Nice pics. What kind of suspension does it run? Looks like it has merit though for the price it ought to! thanks for the insights.:sunflower


This trailer has a trailing arm suspension in a Y configuration, very robust looking. If you look at the web site they will go into detail about it.

[jerdog53]

I still want one of these, owning an LJ my self I want something light weight and very off road worthy.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q182/jerdog53/Tvan/8353.jpg


If this TJ can pull it then my LJ could.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q182/jerdog53/Tvan/c12.jpg

Would there be enough interest in these to order a shipping containers worth from OZ maybe a group buy kind of thing 6-8 units what ever would fit in a large shipping container and see if we couldn't get a price cut on the bunch from the manufacturer.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q182/jerdog53/Tvan/trader762.jpg


The more I look at these the more I want to do something about it.

[Doin_It]

That is site is saved in my favorits list. That is a very cool trailer, little pricey, I think though. The suspension, (they have a video on how trails) is no doubt the best trailer suspension out there right now for trailers of that size. Overall looks pretty neat.

[Camuyano]

A while back I filled out the information request form for the Tvan when I was considering building a large expedition trailer. They sent me a nice package that included an awsome DVD. After watching the DVD, my wife was like, "I want one..." until she saw the price. :Wow1: I am not saying that it's not worth it but it is a lot for such a small trailer.

I was surprised that they sent the DVD since the product is not marketed in the US. I am not sure if they still do that. Maybe there's a way to have one of those shipped over here? Of course, that would add a bunch more to the price. ;)

[jerdog53]

They still do send the DVD even though we are in the states and they know we are.

The company I work for imports a fair amount of large items from overseas from places like Chili and Japan. I talked to the director of "transportation" the guy over that aspect of the business as he is a fellow Jeeper and he told me it would be easy for him to set up track and coordinate. All I needed to do for mine would be set up the payment with the factory and he would handle delivery. His other concern was dealer support or the lack there of, I feel like we as expedition type people have the ability to overcome that aspects in our lives so I really don't think that is an issue. The other think we may need to look into and not being an electrician I can’t really speak to would be the fact the external power supply is set up for 220 vs. 110 but I really cant see that being an issue. I could assume that the 220 is converted to 12volts and fed into the system like it came out of the batteries. He seemed to think that shipping on an individual basis would be around $3K a unit but it would drop with the more units ordered.

They seem a little pricey to me to and this is why if we are able to do like a group buy thing we may get to get them a wholesale or at least a better price.

I have been in email contact with a sales manager in OZ about this and if you like you could ask him questions directly, his name is Craig Hewitson chewitson@tracktrailer.com.au

[Tucson T4R]

Not to hijack this thread, I really like the TVAN trailer but importing trailers is more complicated than I originaly thought. That's why I ended up with a formaly approved imported off road camping trailer.

Here's a qoute from Martyn at Adventure Trailers on importing trailers:

Per Martyn: "The major issues with importing trailer are that they must meet DOT and NHTSA regulations to be sold here. Individuals can not import their own trailers unless they go through a Registered Importer and there are only about 3 companies who deal with trailers and they deal exclusively with big rigs.

King Kamper and Campa USA are the only two who import and have stock of foreign made trailers as far as I know. There are a couple of other "companies" who will arrange for a trailer to be shipped to the USA for you, best be careful when dealing with them, if they are not recognized by the DOT and NHTSA the imported trailer is subject to re export or destruction."


I own one of the King Kamper trailers and they formaly import theirs already into the US. They have all the US approvals and have converted the power to our 110V requirement. They also re-sourced a lot of the trailer parts to US suppliers for easy service.

Here's their Website:

www.kingkampers.com

Let me know if you have any questions - they are similar in price at around $20K but I think you get a little more for your money.

Pictures of mine can be found in this thread:

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2398&page=5

[jerdog53]

That really wasn't the way it was communicated to me about the importation of trailers. I thought there might be some DOT issues but I figured you could get around that by calling it a home build trailer. I am sure that a supplier couldn’t do it that way but a few of us one timers probably could.


I have looked at Kimberly Kampers long and hard but couldn’t get past the weight of them behind my LJ and I don't like the possibility of wet canvas folded up onto the bed. Get around that I will look again. I do see they are working on a sport SUV model that is smaller and lighter than the next model up but you still have canvas folded up on the bed. I really like the way the Tvan looks and the way the canvas folds up into the top of the door with has hard sides and roof.

[Tucson T4R]

That really wasn't the way it was communicated to me about the importation of trailers. I thought there might be some DOT issues but I figured you could get around that by calling it a home build trailer. I am sure that a supplier couldn’t do it that way but a few of us one timers probably could.


I have looked at Kimberly Kampers long and hard but couldn’t get past the weight of them behind my LJ and I don't like the possibility of wet canvas folded up onto the bed. Get around that I will look again. I do see they are working on a sport SUV model that is smaller and lighter than the next model up but you still have canvas folded up on the bed. I really like the way the Tvan looks and the way the canvas folds up into the top of the door with has hard sides and roof.


I know exactly what you mean. I went nuts drooling over this South African offroad trailer:

http://www.brakhah.co.za/

I even engaged the owners trying to get them to export to the US. In the end, they weren't interested in the added hastle. I finaly gave up and went with the KK.

The KK deals with the potential of wet canvas by covering the bedding with a plastic tarp before folding up the trailer. The hard sides and top around the sleeping area on the TVAN are attractive though....I have to agree.:)

The newer sport models of KK are lighter and may be more in line with what your looking for. I don't know anything about your LJ's towing capability but at least with the 4Runner, the full size KK I have tows like a dream with no sway and is steady as rock both on and off road. I don't know what your vehicle width is...you defintley want a trailer that is no wider than your tow rig.

All just food for thought. Good luck in your quest. I can relate.:costumed-smiley-007

[elcoyote]

That really wasn't the way it was communicated to me about the importation of trailers. I thought there might be some DOT issues but I figured you could get around that by calling it a home build trailer. I am sure that a supplier couldn’t do it that way but a few of us one timers probably could.


DEAD WRONG! It will be stated on the bill of lading that it is a trailer in the container. Customs will run the VIN. The VIN is encoded to identify the MFG, which factory it is built in, the unique # of the trailer, how long it is, how many axles it has, when it was built plus a check digit which is an algorithm of all the other numbers in the VIN to verify its legitimacy. If the VIN is not US Compliant, it doesn't get out of Customs until it goes through a Registered Importer (of vehicles) who will render it compliant and there are only a handful of them. The compliance process is expensive...it's not the parts that get you, it's the protocol. Take it from one who has gone through the process and does it for a living. You don't want to give yourself an expensive headache.

[adventureduo]

*choke $25k!

[Tucson T4R]

*choke $25k!


If your choking, just wash it down with this :beer: :sombrero:

[adventureduo]

Yeah i think i'll need quite a few of them to write that fat of a check.

[Rezarf <><]

I have been in Oz and seen them up close, they are SHA-WEET! But for 25K, there are a lot of other cool things I would hunt down first.

Another killer camper trailer is the Ultimate Trailer... equally as nice. For the US market, there isn't a better trailer than the Adventure Trailer IMHO.

Drew

[Martyn]

I have been in Oz and seen them up close, they are SHA-WEET! But for 25K, there are a lot of other cool things I would hunt down first.

Another killer camper trailer is the Ultimate Trailer... equally as nice. For the US market, there isn't a better trailer than the Adventure Trailer IMHO.

Drew

Drew
Remind me to put you on a retainer :-)
Those are some very generous words, thank you.

[spressomon]

The other real world issue, even assuming you can legally get one of these on the streets of USA...which doesn't seem likely based on the actual experiences of Mario and Martyn...what are you going to do when (not "if" but "when") you need assistance with a replacement (warranty or not) part or such? I can only imagine what kind of hassle you'd have in this scenario with a trailer that was sourced half way around the world and there isn't an importer stateside to assist.

[spressomon]

And I second what RESARF stated...not only do the AT guys make an extremely well crafted trailer, that has been refined from their and others actual off-road use, but it is very competitively priced given it's design, construction and performance features...but also they provide fast response to any issues that may arise. I needed a larger gasket/weatherstripping to better seal the top lid of my Horizon...Martyn hand delivered this to me at no charge within a week of my call....problem solved.

[OutbacKamper]

If you are determined to import something unique, but are put off by the regulations regarding importing trailers into the US, here is a possible compromise:
instead of importing a trailer, import a tray top camper and put it on a trailer built in the US:
http://www.innovan.com.au/img/gallery/intext/19.jpg
this is a trailer made by Innovan for their tray top camper (seen in the background) I am sure you could find someone in the US to build a similar trailer, or perhaps adapt an existing offroad trailer design?
Here is another tray top camper that would work (highrise):
http://www.highrise.com.au/Gallery/images/gal14.jpg
Tray top version
http://www.highrise.com.au/Gallery/images/gal19.jpg
Trailer version

One advantage that both these designs have over the Tvan is that there is no canvas.

A side benefit of this approach is that when at home you can remove the camper and have a useful utility/bike/atv trailer

What do you think?

Cheers
Mark

[jerdog53]

DEAD WRONG! It will be stated on the bill of lading that it is a trailer in the container. Customs will run the VIN. The VIN is encoded to identify the MFG, which factory it is built in, the unique # of the trailer, how long it is, how many axles it has, when it was built plus a check digit which is an algorithm of all the other numbers in the VIN to verify its legitimacy. If the VIN is not US Compliant, it doesn't get out of Customs until it goes through a Registered Importer (of vehicles) who will render it compliant and there are only a handful of them. The compliance process is expensive...it's not the parts that get you, it's the protocol. Take it from one who has gone through the process and does it for a living. You don't want to give yourself an expensive headache.




When I did the correspondance with Craig Hewitson at Track Trailer in Jan of this year he never indicated that these trailers are not DOT compliant or that it would be difficult to import one to the US. He did tell me that there was one unit he helped export to Canada and several units that went to Europe and he never indicated it couldn't be done they just havn't done it due to cost.

[jerdog53]

If you are determined to import something unique, but are put off by the regulations regarding importing trailers into the US, here is a possible compromise:
instead of importing a trailer, import a tray top camper and put it on a trailer built in the US:
http://www.innovan.com.au/img/gallery/intext/19.jpg
this is a trailer made by Innovan for their tray top camper (seen in the background) I am sure you could find someone in the US to build a similar trailer, or perhaps adapt an existing offroad trailer design?
Here is another tray top camper that would work (highrise):
http://www.highrise.com.au/Gallery/images/gal14.jpg
Tray top version
http://www.highrise.com.au/Gallery/images/gal19.jpg
Trailer version

One advantage that both these designs have over the Tvan is that there is no canvas.

A side benefit of this approach is that when at home you can remove the camper and have a useful utility/bike/atv trailer

What do you think?

Cheers
Mark

I did look at those and don't remember as to why I dismissed them but I think it was again due to weight behind my LJ.


Somerthing else I did look at was this one http://trayon.com/main.php?page=photogallery&id=7

[jerdog53]

And I second what RESARF stated...not only do the AT guys make an extremely well crafted trailer, that has been refined from their and others actual off-road use, but it is very competitively priced given it's design, construction and performance features...but also they provide fast response to any issues that may arise. I needed a larger gasket/weatherstripping to better seal the top lid of my Horizon...Martyn hand delivered this to me at no charge within a week of my call....problem solved.

The AT trailer is a nice unit, with a tent on top and I want more than that.

[Martyn]

The AT trailer is a nice unit, with a tent on top and I want more than that.

We are always sketching designs out on napkins, and thinking new ideas.

What are you actually looking for that's more than a trailer with a tent on top? Who knows you could be the catalyst that sparks a whole new trailer design.

[Rezarf <><]

Drew
Remind me to put you on a retainer :-)
Those are some very generous words, thank you.


Martyn-

I am building my own (largly to budget restraints) but that sure doesn't mean you don't give mad props when you see folks doing it right! Keep it up, I hope AT redefines recreational camping in the US... it would go a long way if more folks got interested in keeping/gaining access into our backcountry.

Keep up the good work fellas! :bowdown:

Rezarf <><

[jerdog53]

We are always sketching designs out on napkins, and thinking new ideas.

What are you actually looking for that's more than a trailer with a tent on top? Who knows you could be the catalyst that sparks a whole new trailer design.


Well, traditional American styled pop tent trailers have been done to death. Every one is like the other and are all geared toward road travel more so than rough off road as we all know. There a few rough terrain models out there but to be pulled behind a Jeep they are a bit too wide and heavy. Personally my wife and I are getting old enough that we don't want to be sleeping in a tent on the ground or otherwise, want to be able to stand to dress and or get out of the weather. Would like to see more of a bed than just a piece of foam, I would prefer hard side and top over the sleeping area rather than canvas and I do like the pull out kitchen design seen on many OZ trailers. Off road designed suspension with good ground clearance and articulation I think goes with out saying. I don't feel that heat is not necessary that is what sleeping bags are for and the kitchen area should be outside like a pull out unit to keep the overall size of the trailer as small as possible. Use aluminum and composites to keep the weight down. Provisions for storage of food stuffs, personal items, propane, water and extra fuel(Jerry cans) along with a spare tire.

Why not set up a contract with Track Trailer to import all the piece parts and you guys assemble and distribute the Tvan in the US rather than coming up with your own design, do all the research and engineering and then the manufacturing costs on top of that. I would think TT would be eager to have a reputable manufacturer such as AT in the US put their product to the US market. That trailer wouldn’t be in direct competition with either of your current trailer models it would be merely the next logical step up.

Have I talked long enough?

[Tucson T4R]

All good suggestions. I agree that something the next step up in size and features would nicley compliment the AT trailer line. All the previous ideas sound good, I just wanted to add my support for the pull out external kitchen. I have one on my KK and it was one of the primary reasons I like the trailer (after off road suspension and capability of course). :arabia:

AT has done an outstanding job designing and supporting their current off road trailer line. I would expect significant interest from the US in a trailer that is "the next step up" if AT decides to either build their own or put their name behind and support an already proven product.:wings:

[spressomon]

Curious: How much time does it take to get the Ivan set-up for camping?

[jerdog53]

Curious: How much time does it take to get the Ivan set-up for camping?


According to the DVD where they set one up under the clock about 4 minutes.

[spressomon]

According to the DVD where they set one up under the clock about 4 minutes.


Wow...that's fast given how big it looks; impressive to say the least.

[Martyn]

Why not set up a contract with Track Trailer to import all the piece parts and you guys assemble and distribute the Tvan in the US rather than coming up with your own design, do all the research and engineering and then the manufacturing costs on top of that. I would think TT would be eager to have a reputable manufacturer such as AT in the US put their product to the US market. That trailer wouldn’t be in direct competition with either of your current trailer models it would be merely the next logical step up.

Have I talked long enough?

Importing product is not as easy thing to do as it seems, we have done that before and been very unhappy with:

Pricing; the USD is extremely devalued right now as many of you have realized when converting prices from AU$ to USD to product is very expensive

Delivery Times; we have no control over when product will be available, for those of you who have done business with Australian companies most of them are just not interested in increasing productivity to export their product. ARB would be the exception to the rule.

Quality control; We have no control over QC and help is half the globe away. After pre paying for product we could be left with a large head ache.

Cash Flow; We would have to pay up front 50% on ordering 50% on shipping, buy a container load, pay for shipping, import duty and tax, and that's before we have sold a single unit.

It's just a very bad business plan in my opinion.

On the other hand I work with a very capable and innovative business partner. He has never failed to start out with a basic concept and improve upon it to the point at which it's so superior any comparison to the original idea has disappeared. I'll stick with the "Made in the USA" plan.

[CodyLX450]

$25k?

It looks nice but thats shocking for a hardshell/tent combo short trailer.

[RunninRubicon]

I love our brother Australians however, I agree with Martyn. There's a whole gammit of reasons why we should buy american.

[Tucson T4R]

:iagree: Unless you have the support of a major importer that maintains a large stock of parts and provides great customer service, you don't want to go down this road.

My KK, even with US dealers, can be challenging to support when unique non-stocked parts are needed. I have been very lucky and have had the opportunity to work directly with KK engineers in OZ. They have provided great support but we still had to deal with the challenges of outrageous shipping costs and time for small parts and payment complexities.

Working with a US manufacturer is soooo much simpler and more efficient.

Don't get me wrong though...I'm keeping my KK until someone pries my cold dead hands off of it.:elkgrin:

[jerdog53]

:coffee:

[Tucson T4R]

:coffee:

It is some good reading, isn't it. :) Lots of food for thought.

I vote for you to work with AT and see if they can design and build a trailer that meets your specifications (or close to it). It may take awhile to get through it but the end result would be sweet for both you and AT.

Just my two cents thrown in there.:sombrero:

[jerdog53]

Well you don't see me jumping through all those hoops to order a Tvan and get it coming do you, yes money is a key factor and if there was product support in parts and service I might be more inclined to spend the coin. I truly love the design and what it represents and it totally disgusts me that the best we Americans can come up with is a rough terrain pop tent trailer. No offence.

[RunninRubicon]

Well you don't see me jumping through all those hoops to order a Tvan and get it coming do you, yes money is a key factor and if there was product support in parts and service I might be more inclined to spend the coin. I truly love the design and what it represents and it totally disgusts me that the best we Americans can come up with is a rough terrain pop tent trailer. No offence.
Hey now, one says we can't build a copy-cat version here. After-all we Americans showed the world how to do many modern gagits. It wouldn't be out of line at all to produce one here if you could draw up a design and get some backers to fund your manufacturing process. Distribution can be easily dealt with as this medium can be an advertisement anyway. So, go for it! Heck you might even beat the price they want for the import! Be there competition. Capitalism rules bro!

[DesertBound]

Well you don't see me jumping through all those hoops to order a Tvan and get it coming do you, yes money is a key factor and if there was product support in parts and service I might be more inclined to spend the coin. I truly love the design and what it represents and it totally disgusts me that the best we Americans can come up with is a rough terrain pop tent trailer. No offence.

While I understand your frustration at not being able to get exactly what you want (I wouldn't mind a diesel Patrol, myself :D), I don't think the current North American off-road trailer designs are "the best we Americans can come up with". Rather, I believe it has everything to do with market and demand. The market for the high-end trailer that you want doesn't currently exist in North America the way that it does in Australia and South Africa. We don't have the history of overland travel that those places do, and there just aren't enough folks here who are willing to pay the $20+ grand that it would take to build such a beast.

It's the same lament heard on every vehicle forum in the land. "If they'd only bring the over, I know they'd sell every one of 'em!". Companies are in business to make money, so you can bet if they truly thought there was a business case, somebody'd be doing it. One could argue that there's pent-up demand here for a high-end off-road trailer like the Tvan just waiting for a product, but to speculatively design and build such a thing would be a financially risky proposition.

As for me, I'm thrilled that there's [I]any company in the States making a true off-roadable trailer with off-the-ground accomodations, kitchen facilities, and ample storage. Now if I could just convince my wife that we need one...

[elcoyote]

While I understand your frustration at not being able to get exactly what you want (I wouldn't mind a diesel Patrol, myself :D), I don't think the current North American off-road trailer designs are "the best we Americans can come up with". Rather, I believe it has everything to do with market and demand. The market for the high-end trailer that you want doesn't currently exist in North America the way that it does in Australia and South Africa. We don't have the history of overland travel that those places do, and there just aren't enough folks here who are willing to pay the $20+ grand that it would take to build such a beast.

It's the same lament heard on every vehicle forum in the land. "If they'd only bring the over, I know they'd sell every one of 'em!". Companies are in business to make money, so you can bet if they truly thought there was a business case, somebody'd be doing it. One could argue that there's pent-up demand here for a high-end off-road trailer like the Tvan just waiting for a product, but to speculatively design and build such a thing would be a financially risky proposition.

As for me, I'm thrilled that there's [I]any company in the States making a true off-roadable trailer with off-the-ground accomodations, kitchen facilities, and ample storage. Now if I could just convince my wife that we need one...

You hit the nail squarely on the head. Thank you.
Here at AT we have tons of product designs that never even make it to the prototype stage because they fail our price point/market demand criteria. Overlanding in the US is still in its infancy and the community is still small. Unfortunately the US market perception of what a trailer should cost has been corrupted by the mass produced low quality pop ups coming out of midwest factories. The reality is that to build a trailer durable enough for overlanding takes high quality materials, careful fabrication, time, all of which equals $.
I would hazard a guess that the total current market for commercially available overlanding type trailers in the US is not more than a couple thousand per annum at best.

US innovation is not dead. We are not done improving upon our core product platforms and we have a couple of new products that will be out in the next 12 months that are significantly different from anything offered in North America. Stay tuned, you may be pleasantly surprised...

[Squob]

Hi Mario,

Does this mean that you're going to build a trailer with a new configuration, perhaps similar to the way the roof area is engineered on the Tvan ..?

I ask because we're going to run a piece on the Tvan on Squob (http://squob.com) soon, and I'd be interested to know where AT is heading in that regard.

Cheers

Chris

[Martyn]

I have an African trailer that is legally registered in the USA. I got some funny looks when I took it down to the DMV. The best part was when they were creating title to the trailer...The woman asked me for the weight rating of the axles. I told here it was on the form from the MFG , which I had given her. Frustrated, she replied "I don't speak African"...the weight ratings were listed in Kilograms : )

Motorized vehicles are a challenge to import for sure, I've looked into that. Trailers don't seem to be that big of a deal though. What kind of serious concerns could the DOT possibly have? Axles, wheels, and a frame dressed up with some lights?

I wonder, how difficult is it to EXPORT trailers to Europe or Africa?

There are a lot of hurdles to jump. The EU does not have a set of standards for trailers that is community wide, so each country had different regulations, This should change in the next 12 months.

South Africa has SABS standards that have to be adhered to, and then each country in Southern Africa has their own variations on the SABS. Africa is a big continent so regulations change from region to region and country to country.

The sad facts surrounding "I don't speak African" are that most people think Africa is a country not a continent. There are some 2000 languages spoken on the continent and the colonial boundaries of countries in no way reflect the diverse groups who live there.

The fact the USA still uses imperial measurements is beyond my comprehension.

[Hilldweller]

The fact the USA still uses imperial measurements is beyond my comprehension.The metric system is just a fad; it will pass....
We've already convinced most of the industrialized world to learn English...

[elcoyote]

Compliance in the EU is quite complicated. I just returned from Germany where over-ride couplers are required. The regulations state that the mfg of the chassis must certify the entire system through the TUV i.e. the chassis, the brakes, the mechanical linkage and the over-ride coupler as one unit. No deviation is allowed. Annual inspections are required to make sure that the owner has not modified the system after purchase.

To answer the question about the TVAN to Squob, we are emulating Aussie clam shell design for space efficiency but with a euro twist while complying with the needs of the US & Canadian markets.

[Accrete]

...Would like to see more of a bed than just a piece of foam, I would prefer hard side and top over the sleeping area...We have an Aliner Ease (http://www.accrete.com/p-tgl/taco/pix/Aliner/TACO-Liner-www.jpg) and we took the stock mattress out and put two 4" memory foam mattress toppers in it and it is the most comfortable bed i've slept in! So you might try that when the time comes.

My project next year is to go with 8 matching rims/tires for both rigs and get the aliner up a bit more than it is. Swap out the standard hitch with a Lock & Roll hitch. We regularly take it on fire/logging trails no problem, but would like the aesthetics and ease of similar wheels all around.

: ) Thom