unimog 404 camper

[iandraz]

Hi all,

I'm just starting out building an expedition camper based on my Unimog 404. It's probably going to take a couple years before it's ready to travel, but I'm not in too much of a hurry. Here's a rough sketch of what I'm aiming for:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/371400383_fd77dc51ed.jpg

Right now I'm starting with the torque free subframe, here's some pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/iandraz/sets/72157594383936183/

I'll try to keep that page updated as things progress.

- Jacob

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Jacob!

Welcome to the forum!

OK.....that's on my dream list of 4x4 trucks and mods to do!...:26_7_2:

God's Speed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

[Robthebrit]

welcome, its good to see another mogger.

What are your plans?

Rob

[iandraz]

I don't have a scanner to upload my plans but basically I'm thinking I'm going to have an outside frame made from steel angle, with 1.5 inch Nida-core for the wall panels, plus maybe an inch of foam insulation on the inside. The angle steel will probably be 6" by 6", maybe 14 gauge or thereabouts.

Kind of the same construction as the latest Turtle Expedition truck:

http://turtleexpedition.com/vehicles/turtle5.php

Anyone have any experience with Nida core?

Also I'm looking at using the Thetford C-4 cassette toilet. Seems relatively easy to install since it's all self contained.

http://www.thetford.com/permanent_cassette.cfm

As far as appliances, I think I'm going to go all electric, with solar power + diesel generator charging the batteries.

The interior plan is going to look a lot like the Unicat trucks, just a little smaller since the 404 isn't as big as the new Mogs.

- Jacob

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Jacob..........

Check out what this member has done...........




http://www.thesupercamper.blogspot.com/





http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4089


#7 01-29-2007, 03:36 PM
SuperCamperos
Observer Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 16



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Nida core is great stuff. You get the frame, skin, and insulation in one piece. The cost really isn't too bad, around $200 a 4' x 8' sheet. Working with fiberglass isn't too terribly hard, but very itchy, especially when doing the cuts. You must have a 8" disk sander and know how to use it, if you want the seams to look good. Orbital or belt sanders won't cut it. If the design has purely 90 degree angles, you can hide all the seams with aluminum angle which cuts down on sanding time and gives some impact resistance. The Turtle Expedition and the Earth Roamer prototype seemed to use aluminum framing with the nida core bonded in--and not glassing the seams. Makes for more difficult frame, but less resin work.

Fiberglass laminated marine plywood seems like it would be too heavy with less insulating qualities.

Same goes for using fiberglass in a mold. You need a lot of glass to get the thickness for rigidity. Using Carbon fiber would just compound this problem. Fiberglass actually ends up being stiffer than carbon for the same weight because the additional thickness is helping you more than the stiffer modulus of the carbon. and carbon is way too expensive and difficult to work with.

Welded aluminum frame would be a good option, but you need to know how to weld, and aluminum is more difficult than steel, it seems.

I can give you some tips on using fiberglass if you decide to go that route...
__________________
http://www.thesupercamper.blogspot.com/

[Robthebrit]

Concerns I would have if building this camper on a 404 frame are exceeding gross weight and engine power. The 2 feet of camper that stick above the cab are going to cost you in speed and power.

A 404 is using all of its 84hp when going down the freeway at 50mph unloaded. With your extra weight and wind resistance 40 mph may not be obtainable and on hills you'll be significantly slower than a 404 already is. I realize expedition vehicles don't have to be fast but this phrase is usually heard when talking about going 70mph or even faster, you really do need to be able to get up to around 50mph even when out of the US.

Unicat don't usually use the lightweight mogs, on the SBU styles they use the 1550 instead of the 1300L. The trucks are exactly the same size but the 1500 series has a significantly higher gross weight and is available with much more engine power (240-280hp). The 1300 is no lightweight in comparison to a 404, its gross vehicle weight is around 16,000 pounds and for many years it was the smallest mog.

I had a radio box 404 for a few months, it wasn't actually mine but it was parked on my driveway and I would drive it a couple of times a week to keep the oil flowing. Compared to my 416 it was slow going and the radio box didn't have much in it, if the box was full I would be driving in 35mph on the smallest hill. The 404 has the same top speed as my 416 but it spends a lot less time there and my 416 is no speed demon.

There are some things you can do, make sure you get the petronix ignition, get a tranny cooler as that is a 404 weak spot and the extra weight is not going to help. Consider pulling the M180 engine and replacing it with an M130, this gives much more power and is almost a direct fit. I would not consider a diesel engine, the 404s gearing doesn't match diesel RPM ranges, even with the fasting spinning diesels that'll fit (OM617A at around 5000rpm) you have more torque but all your top speeds are lowered because of the 1000rpm reduction in engine speed. The 617 at 5000 is a little noisey to be sitting next to for long periods of time.

Another thing that has always concerned me with the 404 is the single circuit brakes and most slave cylinders I have seen have been on the edge of failing, if one cylinder fails you lose your brakes. Rebuild or replace all the cylinders, check the lines for corrosion and check the rubber parts.

I don't mean to sound negative I was just thinking about and I have been around mogs for a lot of years. If you are going to build a really nice camper the cost of the truck is tiny fraction of the total cost, you can get solid diesel mog for 20k is it really that much difference in the total cost of things?

There is a guy on this forum that has a 404 radio box as a camper, maybe he can give some insight on actual experience.

Rob

[charlieaarons]

I agree with Rob, if you're planning on significant travel (you must be, to want to build a big elaborate camper), get the right chassis. If you have 80K to spend there is a U500 cab chassis for sale, a demo, on Ebay, covered by warranty. If not, try to find the newest most powerful largest gvw SBU chassis you can.
Overloading a chassis past gvw with something bulky like a camper will really slow you down but also is downright dangerous. There is a reason why no-one in Europe builds campers on 404s.

Charlie

[unimogmike]

I have a 404 radio box which i use as a camper. I have done pretty much everything listed...installed a M130, updated the brakes to SS sleeves, trans temp guage, etc.etc.etc... With these modifications, it will easily cruise at 55-60 and actually goes up hills in the slow lane rather than on the shoulder with the hazard lights on. Every unimog owner learns to enjoy the scenery.

While my inital cost of entry was very low (I have owned this truck for a long time), I am sure over the last 10+ years I have invested an amount equal to the current cost of a nice used diesel truck. The one thing 404s have going for them is parts are generally cheaper than most unimogs due to the extensive surplus parts. If i were to do it again, I would most likely look at a diesel mog, pinzgauer or maybe even a mercedes 911 or 1113 (ex firetruck). But for now, my unimog camper is very modest but comfortable. It works for me and my four kids would rather take the unimog on a camping trip than anything else.

For any long term expeditions I would highly suggest two items 1) a hardcab truck/cab, there is no security with a soft top truck and 2) when you get the subframe done, borrow some forklift counterweights(or something similar) and drive the truck. you will find unless you upgrade the engine and brakes, the take-off power and stopping ability may be way less than you expect. I noticed a difference between a troop carrier truck and my radio truck prior to any modifications.

Good Luck with the project,

Mike

[iandraz]

Thanks for the ideas everybody.

a little context with the speed issue: I'm mostly planning on traveling 3rd world countries. I was recently in India, and driving on the Mumbai-Pune "Expressway", one of the newest most modern "highways" in India we never got over 90 km/hr. Usually we were going 60-70 km/hr and on the hills the trucks were all going about 404 speed. Of course I would not want to use this truck much in the US, Canada, etc.. If so I would have bought a Sprinter.

Looking at the manual the capacity of my truck looks to be 3000 lb. I assume that's with the bed that i removed so the total capacity would be around 3500-4000. Looking at the specs on bigfootrv.com this would be able to carry even the largest of their campers. So I think as long as I'm careful with the weight I should be okay.

- Jacob

[Colorado Ron]

I would most likely look at a diesel mog, pinzgauer or maybe even a mercedes 911 or 1113 (ex firetruck)

This statement caught my eye. Just curious why you stated youd rather have a pinz over the 404. You mind expanding a little. I had a tough time deciding myself, and just curious your thoughts.

[unimogmike]

I purchased my unimog before anyone really imported pinzgauers (at least I had never seen one). I have seen some really nice pinz trucks converted to campers, mostly the 6x6 chassis. I like the selective locking portal axles and "high-speed" capability, i have heard you can do 65-70 mph...that would be wishful thinking in a 404 if you want to keep the transmission intact. About the only think I have found that I don't like about the pinz is the cost of parts. I have not really spent any time in one, but from what I do know I would definetly take a hard look at one if i was in the market. Plus is would go nice with my haflinger.

[iandraz]

I was trying to get a feel for the amount of flex in the frame so I strapped my digital camera to the frame and drove around a little. Here's the video if you're interested:

http://jacob.warmanarchitecture.com/UnimogDriving.mov

- Jacob

[offroadchef]

has anyone seen this style of camper box on a mog? not the standard style box.

http://www.clatskanie.com/bat/ is where i found the pick, he also a mog -trailer combo

[iandraz]

I like the solid cab on that one, I'd sure like to build something like that. I recently got mugged which has got me thinking more about the safety factor of a solid steel cab with thick windows.

[alaskantinbender]

Greetings from Alaska.
Unimog mike and robthebrit pretty well told the story on the 404.
The 404 is a great starter mog and with some care and feeding will be a passable expedition truck.
It has a much lower pricetag and parts are still inexpensive relitive to the bigger trucks.
One thing I have noticed in colder temps is that the gas engine is easyer to deal with. I haul a fair amount of fire wood with my truck in the winter as I never seem to get it done in the summer.....
It hauls a 8 foot pickup camper with ease.
The addition of a hard cab would be a terrific in the cold as well.
I have seen a few homemade hard tops on 404's that dont look to hard to fabricate.
Look on: http://www.rockymountainmoggers.com/


Regards,

Jim

[iandraz]

Figured it'd be good to start drawing this up in CAD before I'm ordering parts and cutting lots of metal. See attached.

[63tlf8]

Figured it'd be good to start drawing this up in CAD before I'm ordering parts and cutting lots of metal. See attached.

iandraz,

Been following your thread. I have a hardtop 404 and am at start with the camper construction. Two comments if I may, what arrangements do you have for a torsion free subframe for your camper and have you considered a pop-top of some style to lower the overall height? There are a number of good reasons to look at height with a 404 including fuel consumption and C of G with a relatively light truck.

404's aren't too popular with the big rig blokes but if you want / need to travel light and small and have tripped with a tent in the past then you can be exceedingly comfortable with a 2 x 3 Mtr box for months on end and many 404s have done the big trips.

Tony

[iandraz]

For my torsion free subframe I'm using Trelleborg VP25/5085 bushings at the front and rear, with rigid mounting in the middle (sort of a diamond arrangement).

www.trelleborg.com/upload/IndAVS/Files/Industrial%20PDF/VP&UD.pdf

There's some pictures on the Flickr set i mentioned earlier.

Pop top would probably be a good idea for fuel consumption and clearance issues. I decided it would be easier/cheaper/simpler/more reliable to just keep it a simple box. Also I'm hoping to be doing less driving and more long-term camping, so the pop top might not be as necessary.

[63tlf8]

For my torsion free subframe I'm using Trelleborg VP25/5085 bushings at the front and rear, with rigid mounting in the middle (sort of a diamond arrangement).

Looks good. I've used the torsion free sub frame that was part of the original fire equipment compartment. Same concept, rigid mount in the middle and single pivot front and rear. To suit my needs I've gone for a removeable 3 x 2 Mtr box for the camper with elevating solid roof and sides, similar concept to the Alaskan in the US but without the cutaways at the bottom to fit in a pickup. For a little more complexity it gives the solid and insulated construction wanted plus a cab height camper for overhead clearance.

Heres the tray and a picture taken by a forum member of the camper style I've decided on. (Seem to be having trouble with the attachments)

Tony

[whatcharterboat]

Hi guys, was wondering if anyone here has CAD drawings/files (with dimensions) for Pinz 4x4 and 6x6 or 404 mogs ????? Ron??? Thanks in advance.

[iandraz]

I have the CAD file I used for my model (of my unimog 404). It's pretty basic, just based on me measuring the truck with a tape measure. What format can you use? It's in Pro/E now.

[whatcharterboat]

What format can you use? It's in Pro/E now. . Autocad or pro desktop would be good. I will send you an email with my details.

Thanks for the response. A couple of us at work are thinking of building a 404 or pinz for ourselves using a camper body that we have just moulded in fibreglass. At this stage we just want to see how they marry together. I had thought of burying the body right up to the front of the door pillars so that the windscreen is part of the camper body.

I suppose that will mean we will have to attach the front section of the cab to the floor frame so that it moves independantly from the chassis. Have done this before with FG's without problems (see pic. This is nothing like the body we intend to use, just wanted to show a cab we attached to the floor frame which was still torsionally free of the chassis. Also this body goes right over the cab instead of stopping at the door pillars) http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8d739b3127ccec5715f490e2e00000040O00EcMWrVmzZMg e3nwI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D480/ry%3D320/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8d739b3127ccec57040186ea400000040O00EcMWrVmzZMg e3nwI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D480/ry%3D320/
Unfortunately I'm still still a bit ignorant as far as the mog's dimensions go and the pinz maybe way too narrow for the body we have.Thats where we are at anyway.

Regards John

[whatcharterboat]

Anyone have any experience with Nida core?

I will be back at work next week and will send through some pics of an old composite panel construction if you like. We often use Nida-Plas for flooring and high density urethane foam for everything else. There is a panel builder around the corner from us called "vanglass" See link:

http://www.freezefoam.com.au/specs.htm#

Also we have used Epoxy foam panel but this has other issues. Now we lay up all our products in a mould and back them with foam to get the insulation, strength and light weight in one. Much quicker build when you are tooled up but for a DIY job the vanglass type panel is the way to go. Actually it's not that hard to make your own laying up on a smooth table as a mold. This way you can even incorporate some hard fixing strips under the inside laminate to fasten cabinetry to later. Although building the cabinetry from the same panel and glassing it to the walls is probably even better.

Fixing to fibreglass has its own issues. There are a whole range of products specifically for this. Have a look at some here

http://www.rotaloc.com/

We use a lot of rivets that split and form a claw when you pop them rather than screws.

Sorry I don't have those build pics right now. Maybe mid next week. I'm sure they will give you some ideas. We did the whole thing with a powersaw and a staight edge so I'm sure you could tackle it at home. That build even used a Thetford Cassette toilet like you mentioned. BTW we built the interior first then put the walls up around it. Much easier to glass the insides of the cabinetry.

Regards John

[whatcharterboat]

Sorry that's a hard site to get back to the homepage. This is a better link. http://www.freezefoam.com.au/

[iandraz]

Thanks, that's very helpful. I think that's similar to the kind of material I'm hoping to use. What sort of cost range did it run you?

[whatcharterboat]

Probably not relevent to do a comparison. We pay outrageous prices for polyester resin, polyurethane foam, etc. in Australia. Try getting some costs from your suppliers locally. I know its cheapest for us to make our own flat panel on a table when we need to rather than buy it in (save yourself some bucks by doing it yourself if you are skilled enough).

[iandraz]

Got another piece of metal on the truck. This is the rear cross member, which is mounted to the frame with a rubber bushing to allow the frame to flex. Here's a picture:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3260/2906751074_cc62176a20.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/iandraz/2906751074/

And I got a video too:

http://vimeo.com/1864746

[whatcharterboat]

Hey. These are the pics I said I would send through. Had to ask the boss if it was OK. As I said before with this construction method, there is too much labour involved for us now but if you were going to do this at home and you have the skills and the time it would be quite effective. But it's not likely we'll do it again comercially.

We made some simple radiused corner molds for joining the panels at right angles. Also these panels came with flowcoat on the inside so it was alot more work to grind up all the edges prior to glassing the inside of the joins. Finishing the inside can be done with Flowcoat, carpet or even gluing in a thin Gelcoated glass panel.

Makes for excellent insulation, strength, light weight, and nothing to rot. Literally hose it out if you want. Also note the Thetford Cassette toilet like you asked about.

BTW Love your Mog and am very keen to see what you do with it.

Let me know if the size of the pics is OK. Still having dramas posting.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/2908997138_43acf04c27.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/2908157115_6796aa3140.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3054/2908162487_f4062806ec.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3076/2909013132_33134e358a.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3218/2908172995_b2be10f19e.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3073/2903676013_a1749df15f.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3196/2903676455_258c65b581.jpg

[iandraz]

Cool thanks for the ideas! Here's some more cad pictures...still working on getting you the cad file.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3088/2912808074_a72d7e2298.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2911957061_a7c36f1590.jpg

[iandraz]

So I'm having some second thoughts about the Unimog 404 chassis. Compared with the Fuso FG, I'm foreseeing issues with enclosing the cab, comfort level in the cab, safety, reliability, ease of repair, fuel economy, insurance, licensing, etc. And older Fuso FGs are in the 10-15000 range which is only a bit more than this Unimog. I haven't invested too much yet that can't be easily transferred to a Fuso. And the Unimog hasn't really lost any value since I bought it. What do you think? Anybody interested in a ready to build Unimog expedition vehicle platform? :)

[Octamog]

So I'm having some second thoughts about the Unimog 404 chassis. Compared with the Fuso FG, I'm foreseeing issues with enclosing the cab, comfort level in the cab, safety, reliability, ease of repair, fuel economy, insurance, licensing, etc. And older Fuso FGs are in the 10-15000 range which is only a bit more than this Unimog. I haven't invested too much yet that can't be easily transferred to a Fuso. And the Unimog hasn't really lost any value since I bought it. What do you think? Anybody interested in a ready to build Unimog expedition vehicle platform? :)

How about doing a cab conversion on the Unimog chassis? Replacement Isuzu (and other make) cabs are available for very reasonable prices. I bought an Isuzu FTR cab brand new complete (less seats) for $4000. Find a hinge assembly from a suitable donor, and make it fit! Really not that much work, and you'll have the comfort of a late model truck on Unimog chassis with Portals. Think of it as building your very own U-20 (http://octamog.smugmug.com/gallery/1377196_erxDi#P-2-20)!

[Robthebrit]

sounds like a lot more work to me than finding a late model 1300L, those turbos really help haul when at high altitude, also helps keep the smoke down. Going through the tunnel on I70 (11000 feet?) my 416 camper puts out a most impressive cloud of death.

Rob

[iandraz]

Yeah I've been pretty gung-ho about Mogs up to this point but it seems like there's just too many good reasons to go with the Fuso, especially for getting on the road sooner and cheaper. From the information I can find it appears the frame rails on the Fuso are about the same width as the 404 (870 mm to the outsides of the mounting brackets) or possibly narrower. So I can pretty easily adapt the 4-point torsion free mounting I've already fabricated.

[63tlf8]

So I'm having some second thoughts about the Unimog 404 chassis. Compared with the Fuso FG, I'm foreseeing issues with enclosing the cab, comfort level in the cab, safety, reliability, ease of repair, fuel economy, insurance, licensing, etc. And older Fuso FGs are in the 10-15000 range which is only a bit more than this Unimog. I haven't invested too much yet that can't be easily transferred to a Fuso. And the Unimog hasn't really lost any value since I bought it. What do you think? Anybody interested in a ready to build Unimog expedition vehicle platform? :)

Hi iandraz,

Can't offer you the answer to that. Depends on what your needs vs wants really are.

My 404 is a hard cab but other than that my decision points are much the same as yours. If you are going alone into rough country then the 404 has certain benefits including military style toughness, ease of basic repair and lockable diff 4x4, which may be difficult to get in an older Fuso in the US. There are still 404 expedition vehicles plugging along on most continents but to my mind you wouldn't want to invest too much in them as after all they are a 40 -50 year old tractor.

If you are on made dirt roads or better then you don't need what the 404 has to offer. From there its all down hill for the 404. Most anything you choose will be more economical, quieter, much newer; and the list goes on. I enjoy my 404 for what it is and accept that most of the others I meet in my travels are doing it easier than I am. My advantage is that if travelling alone I only take it where I would take a Fuso, so I have huge reserves by comparison if I need to turn tail and go back.

Good luck with your choice.

Tony

[Average Joe]

iandraz,


404's aren't too popular with the big rig blokes but if you want / need to travel light and small and have tripped with a tent in the past then you can be exceedingly comfortable with a 2 x 3 Mtr box for months on end and many 404s have done the big trips.

Tony

Could you please tell me the exact usable inside dimensions of the radio box on the 404? Is 2 X 3 meters the exact outside size? What is the height inside the box? Lastly, Was the 416 ever available in a radio box configuration or just the 404?
Thanks a bunch.

[63tlf8]

Could you please tell me the exact usable inside dimensions of the radio box on the 404? Is 2 X 3 meters the exact outside size? What is the height inside the box? Lastly, Was the 416 ever available in a radio box configuration or just the 404?
Thanks a bunch.
Hi Average Joe,

You tagged this on to my post of two years ago so I'll chime in. My MOG was a TLF and the body was approximately 2 x 3 Mtr. I dumped the body, made a new tray and made my Camper as a slide on for the tray. Give or take a few cm, my tray is 2 x 3 Mtr, no idea what a radio box dimensions are, exact or otherwise. Traveling height is 1.3 Mtr, and elevates to standing height when set up.

Cheers

[Average Joe]

Hi Average Joe,

You tagged this on to my post of two years ago so I'll chime in. My MOG was a TLF and the body was approximately 2 x 3 Mtr. I dumped the body, made a new tray and made my Camper as a slide on for the tray. Give or take a few cm, my tray is 2 x 3 Mtr, no idea what a radio box dimensions are, exact or otherwise. Traveling height is 1.3 Mtr, and elevates to standing height when set up.

Cheers

Thanks for the info. I'm getting a lot of ideas but having a surprisingly hard time finding exact specs of the radio box which would really start things off on my end. I have a great source for materials but need to know specifics before aquiring them. Anyone you know of on here that you could connect me to that has a radio box that I could get the dimentions from? I would start my own thread if I could but being new to the forum I think I have to wait a bit before being alowed to start one.