Diesel G 463 for the US

[inkblotz]

Hi All:

Well it seems that the survey we presented to Mercedes in Graz at the 30th anniversary and the one to MBUSA has done some good. I received a phone call from MBUSA. They said that there is a good possibility that we will get a diesel G for the US market. We need your input to help MBUSA understand what we want. They have said they are working on a 463 Diesel. So most likely it will be a Bluetec. Forget the 461 it's not in the cards. To keep the price point down they are considering selling a base 463 diesel G that you customize yourself.

Please fill out the survey, that Drew put together so that we can pass along our diesel desires.

http://web.mac.com/drewplatt/Gelandewagen/Survey_2.0.html

Thanks Drew and Mark:victory:

[haven]

Welcome to ExPo, Drew and Mike. And thanks for listing Expedition Portal
on your web page of links to sites of interest to Gelandewagen enthusiasts.

Personally, I think the survey asks for too much personal and financial
information for me to be comfortable filling it out online. It's more like
a prospect sheet for a dealer than a survey that would inform MBZ
corporate decision-makers that a diesel GWagen would have a market.
But that's just my reaction.

Chip Haven

[Fernweh]

Welcome to ExPo, Drew and Mike. And thanks for listing Expedition Portal
on your web page of links to sites of interest to Gelandewagen enthusiasts.

Personally, I think the survey asks for too much personal and financial
information for me to be comfortable filling it out online. It's more like
a prospect sheet for a dealer than a survey that would inform MBZ
corporate decision-makers that a diesel GWagen would have a market.
But that's just my reaction.

Chip Haven

Yeah,

I have also seen the black G-wagen with lots of antennas and dark tinted windows circling the neighborhoods here.

If the boys from MB don't see a real market for the Diesel G here in the US - it will never happen......So the survey should be filled out by those interested people only who are also willing to put their money were their mouth is.
I do not have that kind of money for a vehicle without spark plugs......

Thank you Drew & Mark for all your sincere efforts

Karl

[charlieaarons]

To keep the price point down they are considering selling a base 463 diesel G that you customize yourself.


Thanks Drew and Mark:victory:

By this you mean a comprehensive option list?

Charlie

[Root Moose]

I'll disagree on the financial bit - just asking how much you'd pay? Maybe the form has changed. I don't see anything remotely leading for financial.

I do have a problem with the names and email addresses being publicly displayed though. That is a no-no in my opinion.

I think they should bring over the 463, basically option it out the same way as a full-loaded Wrangler Rubicon, charge an extra $10k. Done. I await delivery. Can I get a gas engine? ;)

[charlieaarons]

Can I get a gas engine? ;)

Of course you can, right now. It's called the G500.

Charlie

[Root Moose]

Don't need a hot rod engine in a 4x4.

Is there a ~4.0 litre straight six available in the current G?

[charlieaarons]

Don't need a hot rod engine in a 4x4.

Is there a ~4.0 litre straight six available in the current G?

Here is an interactive spec for Gs in Germany. there should be a translate button at the top.


http://www.mercedes-benz.de/content/germany/mpc/mpc_germany_website/de/home_mpc/passengercars/home/new_cars/models/g-class/w463_crosscountry/technical_data.html

Note that 16" wheels fit. I could use my 8.25R16 XZLs!

Charlie

[Fernweh]

Of course you can, right now. It's called the G500.

Charlie

Soorry Charlie........it's a G550 now......:victory:


Yes, you do not need all that power in the offroad/Overland environment, but sure it's nice to have when traveling long distances to it

http://up.picr.de/4250942.jpg

[timmy!!!!!!!]

Diesel white 4 door LWB with and autobox and a/c please. Everything else is just luxury options... well central locking if I have to have it I won't complain to badly. Oh and 10k more than a rubicon.

[snyder.hunter]

Diesel white 4 door LWB with and autobox and a/c please. Everything else is just luxury options... well central locking if I have to have it I won't complain to badly. Oh and 10k more than a rubicon.

Please fill out the survey - Mercedes Benz USA will look at the surveys aforementioned before they look at this thread.

[Viggen]

I dont think this will happen as there really is no market for a diesel G in the States. They marketed it as a luxury mobile here in the US whereas it is used as a workhorse everywhere else. People who buy G's in the US have enough money to afford them and dont mind the crappy mpg from a big V8 in the front.

VW does these things all the time. "Would you like a TDi Tiguan?" Sure, thatd be great. "Sorry, never going to happen as there is no demand." Well, how about in the Passat wagon? "Sorry, no demand." Sure, they have a TDi Touareg but that SOB starts in the high 40s which puts it out of reach of most people who would like a diesel for the right reasons, i.e. more than mpg.

All the European workhorse SUVs are marketed as luxury cars in the US and most buyers will not see any advantages of paying the extra for a diesel when they are already spending a bunch of money on the car to begin with.

[Ruination Fan]

I dont think this will happen as there really is no market for a diesel G in the States. They marketed it as a luxury mobile here in the US whereas it is used as a workhorse everywhere else. People who buy G's in the US have enough money to afford them and dont mind the crappy mpg from a big V8 in the front.

I see this as the most likely issue. Over here in the states, Benz is luxury....complete opposite of on the other side of the pond. It would be nice to have a diesel 463, but Bluetec is a pretty huge leap from the inline 6 with injection pump. The bluetec has a lot of stuff going on (additive you have to add to the tank, and flush from the system if not used and much more). They are good motors, but not the best IMO for expo use. I prefer the 460-461(still dreaming of finding one for a decent price) style due to the more manual accessories(windows,t-case,mirrors). The 463s are nice, but are built from a lot of left overs from other chassis (203s,124s,etc...)for the luxury items.

[inkblotz]

Expedition Portal did not receive the link to the first survey as it was put together in May of 09. It was made into an aluminum clad brochure that was presented to the head of the G-wagen division in Graz at the 30th anniversary celebration and another one was presented to the head of the G-wagen division at MBUSA. I received several phone calls and emails regarding the results from MBUSA.

This second "survey" was put together to answer specific questions that MBUSA asked me.

So for me any chance of getting a Diesel G here in the US is a good one.

Here is the link to the first Survey post: http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=14598&posts=1&mid=151326&highlight=enthusiasts+survey&highlightmode=1&action=search#M151326

Thanks
Mark

[Root Moose]

In case this thread makes it to MBUSA...

I think there is a market in North America, or at least in Canada anyway, for a gas or diesel G that is focused as competition to the Jeep Wrangler. Make it $10k more than the top of the line Rubicon and strip out all the luxury crap. Even bring the older chassis (463?) in a similar way to what VW has done with the "City Golf" in Canada.

I expect there'd be lots of buyers if the way the guys in the local 4x4 club lust after the few Gs that are in the club (461 and 463 vintage). Why don't those guys go out and buy older Gs? Because older Gs cost over $20k around here and are ~20+ year old vehicles. It does not fit the normal car buying value equation and it certainly is a hard sell if you have to get financing. Now, a $35-$40k new Rubi versus a $45-$50k G makes more sense.

$0.02

[Viggen]

for a gas or diesel G that is focused as competition to the Jeep Wrangler. Make it $10k more than the top of the line Rubicon and strip out all the luxury crap.

Never going to happen. An MB marketed to compete with Jeep? Never ever ever. I dont think that most people even realize that the G Wagen still exists outside of certain "rich" markets of the country. The market as it is is so narrowly defined as a result of MB's efforts that a diesel coming in would make no difference whatsoever. We would want it because we like the off road capability aspect of it but alas, ExPo is not the real world and we are not a viable market in the US

[Root Moose]

Hey, I can dream can't I? LOL

I agree with you, it won't happen.

[snyder.hunter]

Hey, I can dream can't I? LOL

I agree with you, it won't happen.


If Mercedes Benz took a gamble and had an aggressive marketing campaign here in the USA with a TV commercial or two, full spread ads in 4x4 magazines, Rolling Stone magazine, People... online then people would understand the pedigree of these trucks. Just because it's not known by the US market does NOT mean it cannot compete. People just need to know about the product at hand here. Once this is done it will be more likely people will buy, especially if it is Diesel.

I have my doubts as well that gambles of this proportion will be taken, but perhaps they will?

Hunter

[Viggen]

If Mercedes Benz took a gamble and had an aggressive marketing campaign here in the USA with a TV commercial or two, full spread ads in 4x4 magazines, Rolling Stone magazine, People... online then people would understand the pedigree of these trucks. Just because it's not known by the US market does NOT mean it cannot compete. People just need to know about the product at hand here. Once this is done it will be more likely people will buy, especially if it is Diesel.

I have my doubts as well that gambles of this proportion will be taken, but perhaps they will?

Hunter
Look at the average salary of the typical buyer of those periodicals and then look at the cost of the truck itself. They do not match up very well. They will see the pedigree but that will not equate to actual sales. People are now keeping their vehicles for longer amounts of time leading to a downturn in actual new car sales. Because of this, MB would be mad to try and federalize a new diesel motor and produce one to meet the US specs. Look at the sales of VAG's Q7 and Touareg TDI for reference. Both are very well thought out in their execution and come with a diesel built buy arguably one of the best diesel motor designers and producers. Their problem, the premium placed on the motor added to an already pricey truck places it well out of many buyers reach. MB would be doing the same thing.

We can dream. I WANT diesel offerings in the US and would buy one new but all that depends upon the cost. Make it $35k+ and you lose a huge amount of the market. Many people who want diesel powered SUVs arent willing to spend that much money. I know that I am not. For proof, look at the ridiculous popularity of using a Cummins motor that has no business being in anything other than a bread truck being swapped into just about anything with wheels. The demand is there but its all price dependent.

Root Moose, Ill dream with you on this one.

[Root Moose]

FWIW, I could care less about the diesel aspect. Stick an already certified gas engine into the "stripper" truck and bring it over. If they could do it for approximately the price of a Wrangler even better. I'd probably have to be restrained from buying one - seriously.

[charlieaarons]

. Because of this, MB would be mad to try and federalize a new diesel motor and produce one to meet the US specs. Look at the sales of VAG's Q7 and Touareg TDI for reference. Both are very well thought out in their execution and come with a diesel built buy arguably one of the best diesel motor designers and producers. Their problem, the premium placed on the motor added to an already pricey truck places it well out of many buyers reach. MB would be doing the same thing.

.

The motor is already "federalized". It is the same 3.2L V6 they put in everything else, from the Sprinter to the E series.
And FYI our BMW X5 35d is cheaper than an X5 with the 4.8L V8 (which it exceeds in torque), but slightly more expensive than the 3.0L petrol inline 6 (which it exceeds in hp and mpg).
I would hazard a guess that the price of a diesel G would be midway between the G320 which isn't sold in the US and the G500, which is sold here. So it might be LESS expensive than a G500. Not cheap by any measure.

Charlie

[zimm]

FWIW, I could care less about the diesel aspect.

"i COULDNT care less." think about it.

[zimm]

the way these are built, they will NEVER be cheap.

[Root Moose]

"i COULDNT care less." think about it.

Nah, I'll wait for your treatise on the subject. ;)

[Indiana Drew]

Hello Gbees - it has been about 2 weeks since the first submission to Survey 2.0 came in and we are at 88! Keep encouraging others to take a few minutes and share their feelings!

[snyder.hunter]

Hello Gbees - it has been about 2 weeks since the first submission to Survey 2.0 came in and we are at 88! Keep encouraging others to take a few minutes and share their feelings!

so exciting to see this whole thing panning out... great job everyone (you too drew, I guess ;)

[mk216v]

Hi All:

Well it seems that the survey we presented to Mercedes in Graz at the 30th anniversary and the one to MBUSA has done some good. I received a phone call from MBUSA. They said that there is a good possibility that we will get a diesel G for the US market. We need your input to help MBUSA understand what we want. They have said they are working on a 463 Diesel. So most likely it will be a Bluetec. Forget the 461 it's not in the cards. To keep the price point down they are considering selling a base 463 diesel G that you customize yourself.

Please fill out the survey, that Drew put together so that we can pass along our diesel desires.

http://web.mac.com/drewplatt/Gelandewagen/Survey_2.0.html

Thanks Drew and Mark:victory:

Added, thx Drew and Mark!!!

[otiswesty]

Expedition Portal did not receive the link to the first survey as it was put together in May of 09. It was made into an aluminum clad brochure that was presented to the head of the G-wagen division in Graz at the 30th anniversary celebration and another one was presented to the head of the G-wagen division at MBUSA. I received several phone calls and emails regarding the results from MBUSA.

Mark

Here's some pics of the presentation of the first survey with Heinz Neunzig, myself and Tim Watkins to Axel Harries of MB in Graz last summer.

[Ryanmb21]

Submitted. I would love to have this option available, thanks.