Fiji Bottled Water - True Cost?

[mountainpete]

This article popped up on Digg regarding Fiji bottled water - right now the second most popular premium water in the USA. Should make for a good discussion:

What are your thoughts? Does information like this sway your purchase patterns?

****
From: Tree Hugger (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/02/pablo_calculate.php)

In summary, the manufacture and transport of that one kilogram bottle of Fiji water consumed 26.88 kilograms of water (7.1 gallons) .849 Kilograms of fossil fuel (one litre or .26 gal) and emitted 562 grams of Greenhouse Gases (1.2 pounds).

Twenty-six times as much water used to make it than you actually drink. As much fuel to make it as there is water in the bottle. Staggering is an understatement.

Click here for original source at : http://www.triplepundit.com/pages/askpablo-exotic-bottled-water-002401.php

[FJ Cruiser]

the comments below the post are entertaining to read

[mountainpete]

I agree - especially the one that calls him a quack :p

[flywgn]

Pete,

That's interesting, but I doubt some of Pablo's assumptions and calculations. I read his entire article and the comments following. I'd like to spend more time with the original article, but my analytical side says, "There's something missing here."

It' still food for thought. I was at a "Harvesting Clean Energy" conference a couple of week-ends ago and was amused by the fact that during the "Break-out Sessions" many attendees found it necessary to go outside and have a cigarette break. Now go figure. We're there to learn about making our air cleaner and these blighters have to foul up the air around them with smoke.:littlefriend:

Oh well.

Allen R

[DesertRose]

Good post, Mountainpete!

Absolutely that kind of information informs our buying decisions. We don't, in general, buy much processed food or drink of any kind - for the very reasons stated above. Processing and transport have a huge impact on our country (its landscapes, air and water quality, resources, etcetera). Buying and consuming locally is important. If local is not available, then we try to find less consumptive alternatives.

Plus, bottled water is so expensive - it's something like $5 or more a gallon!

I could go on and on about the expense and health evils of processed foods, but instead, I'll go cook a big hunk of beef roast bought from a local rancher . . . served with locally grown winter greens and turnips . . . and fresh bread . . . washed down with well water! :chowtime:

[devinsixtyseven]

It most certainly does sway my purchase patterns. I try to buy quality & local when reasonably possible, and save long range for expensive/awkward/specialized purchases. No sense in buying boutique goods from another state if there's something local.

[DaveInDenver]

What are your thoughts? Does information like this sway your purchase patterns?
It does sway me to some extent, although it sorta seems obvious that bottling water and shipping it goodness knows from where has got to be less efficient than drinking what comes from the tap. I personally like the fluoride is poison argument in the comments section. In high levels (much higher than the typically under 1 ppm level we get in most city water), it does cause fluorosis (makes your teeth all gray and nasty) and probably bone decay, but most troubling to me is the possible link to bone cancer. The whack-o people think fluoride reduces intelligence, which is why it's in the water supply, to keep us dumb and sedate. No, I'm naturally slow and the beer is plenty to keep me sedated.

Consequently, I'm not particularly worried about a fluoridated water supply, but it's interesting to note that the practice started after noticing kids down in the Springs had stained teeth, but fewer cavities. Took dentists a couple of decades to realize it's because the run-off that supplied Colorado Springs city water had high levels of fluoride from the cryolite present in the geology of Pike's Peak. And who says non-natives don't know local history?

[flywgn]

We do purchase and drink bottled water when traveling. The price doesn't bother me. After all, the beer I drink is $12 -$15/gal and the wine...well, that can run pretty high if one is doing a cost/gal analysis. I do purchase much, maybe most, of my beer and wine from producers who re-cycle their production water. At one time I could give you figures on the % of recovery we had from our production at the winery where I was GM, but I don't have their current figures.

We're partners in an organic farm/ranch, so much of what we purchase throughout the year is organically grown, and even that can have some caveats, especially when purchasing "organically-grown" fresh produce.

I wholeheartedly agree with Roseann's assessment of processed foods.

Here at our house, we have a well and the water is WON-derful. Right out of the lava-surrounded aquifer. My coffee in the morning is the best I've ever had (medium roast :coffeedrink: ).

But...back to the original article referenced, it seems to be that there is something about the author's (Pablo's) analysis that appears to be obfuscating. There are recondite numbers and calculations that don't match. I wish I had more time to read it thoroughly, but right now I'm busying myself with preparations for a quick trip down to Baja. I've printed a copy of the article to take with me.

I do wish to make it clear, that I dearly love that kind of information (referring to the article) and use it every place that I can. It's just that I prefer knowing that I'm on solid ground with the logic, the figures, and especially the assumptions.

Pete, I meant to thank you for posting it in the first place.

Allen R

ON EDIT: I just did a quick search of Fijian industries and found that there are 25 companies involved in the plastic industry making, among other things PET bottles, so right away Pablo's assumption of importing the bottles from China is brought into question. Probably just a quick e-mail to the Fiji water producer would answer a bunch of the questions, but I gotta quit this or I'll never get the truck loaded.....:)

[devinsixtyseven]

But...back to the original article referenced, it seems to be that there is something about the author's (Pablo's) analysis that appears to be obfuscating. There are recondite numbers and calculations that don't match.There are. That's why the "quack" comment was so funny...it was a somewhat deserved smackdown. However, a better comment is from the guy who claims to have run a water business in the past...it's less attitude and more sensible.

As fallacious as Pablo's numbers may be, drinking "local" water definately has less global impact than shipping it over from BFE, if not exactly by the numbers and reasons he mentions--it doesn't take a slide rule to figure that out, but the numbers lend pseudo-scientific credence to his emotional appeal. Of course said water becomes muddier (and increasingly scarce) when the population in any area grows beyond the ability of the aquifer or surface runoff to support watering of sidewalks, washing of driveways, watering of golf courses or other wet 'n' humid climate pastimes which are inappropriate in an arid climate.

At that point, bringing in water may be a necessity, since the populations of Chino, Denver and Phoenix don't seem to be interested in conserving water anytime soon. Those populations aren't slackers, they provide quite a bit of muscle and brainpower to the economy, at some point I'm sure there is a balancing point between the cost of supplying water to those cities and the intellectual and manufacturing wealth they generate.

Of course, it would just be a lot easier if people would change with their environment vs the other way 'round. Driveways in Highlands Ranch would be dirtier, but water rights would also stop being top summer news in the Denver Post.

[justfred]

But, heck, all water taste is the collection of minerals and pollutants left in or taken out.

When I buy water, I tend to buy Fiji when it's available; when I'm at home I drink out of the tap, or through a Brita. (Tip: recycle the Brita by using it to filter cheap Vodka!).

That said, I give my fish "Catalina Water" when it's available - shipped from the backside of Catalina, to my local fish store, to me (schlepping those 5 gallon bottles). So, if it's good enough for the fish, it's good enough for me.

[goodtimes]

ON EDIT: I just did a quick search of Fijian industries and found that there are 25 companies involved in the plastic industry making, among other things PET bottles, so right away Pablo's assumption of importing the bottles from China is brought into question.

Everyone should buy more PET bottles! What size do you want? Right now I have about 10 million PET bottles covering over 50,000 sq feet of warehouse...8 oz, 500mL, 20 oz, 1L, 1.5L, 2L, and 3L...all in varying colors and panel/foot designs. Just tell me how many you want.....:REOutArchery02:

FWIW, no one ships PET bottles across the ocean. Resin does get shipped via container ship, but not bottles. They take up to much room. For example, one 40' container will only hold 95,000 500mL bottles (retail sales cost of ~$8000). A big filling plant will run millions of bottles each day. I don't know what shipping costs are on a container ship...but my guess is it that it ain't cheap! Hell, it costs 2 grand to get a 53' trailer from Tucson to Los Angeles (with those same 95,000 500mL bottles). Nope, international shipping of PET bottles is simply cost prohibitive. In fact, shipping is so expensive for PET bottles (again, because a FCL only holds a couple hours worth of product), that many large filling plants are are either building blow molding plants on-site so they can eliminate the shipping cost, or working with companies like Amcor, Plasti-pak, etc., and having them build a facility across the parking lot from the filling plant.

Add to the fact that PET is a heat sensative material. If the box (trailer) heats up in the sun, the bottles will shrink, and become unusable. We can't even let the sunlight hit the bottles here in Tucson in the summer...they will shrink. Imagine what sitting in a cargo container for weeks at a time will do to them!

[goodtimes]

A little digging...Fiji uses an on-site blow molding (PET) plant. With their volumes, they probably do their injection molding there too...leaving them with only needing to import the resin.

Also noticed the author claims a 1 liter bottle uses 125 grams of PET. The heaviest 1 liter we currently produce weighs 33 grams...although we did at one time use a 37g preform for both a 1 liter and a 1.5 liter IIRC.

[whitethaiger]

I scanned the article and comments and have to agree with flywgn. The thing doesn't sound too scientific more like something the mainstream media would like.

As to GT's point about bottles, I was also wondering if they really bottle the stuff down there rather than bringing it in bulk.

I wish I had bookmarked an article by some economist I came across the other day. He discussed some of the issues involved in bringing food stuff from far away. I always assumed that local was better, but it's more complicated than that. Overall it has some advantages for the global environment to use food stuff grown in high density operations rather than organic which usually needs more space to produce the same amounts.
Another big point was that the biggest fossil fuel factor in food transportation is not the long distance shipping by ship, rail or even truck, but the countless individual trips by the consumer. Take the SUV to the store for just a couple of items, etc. So most likely planning shopping trips efficiently (shortest route to hit the different stores), minimizing the number of trips by stocking up on items has a bigger benefit for the environment than just not buying Fiji water.

[goodtimes]

As to GT's point about bottles, I was also wondering if they really bottle the stuff down there rather than bringing it in bulk.


Fiji's website claims they have an on-site blow molding facility (it is on the FAQ page). My initial thought was that they shipped it here in bulk, and bottled it in a domestic plant, where the FDA has a bit more oversight, and therefor eases the whole process...apparently not.

[calamaridog]

Even though the article is full of holes, the reality is that we Americans buy way too much bottled water. Seriously, it kills me when my mother brings a flat of bottled water up to her house in the MOUNTAINS:exclaim:

Then my wife drinks the stuff.

Then my 3 y.o. thinks it is somehow better than the water daddy gets her out of the tap in the MOUNTAINS.

Seriously, I bet the tap water coming out COLD and CLEAN in the MOUNTAINS is better than the crap in the little plastic bottles.

I've bought some nice water bottles for refills and placed them in the fridge. Hope this cuts down on the maddness.

I think I have issues:drool:

[Desertdude]

Leave it to Pepsi to convince many generations to pay more for water than gasoline per gallon. Water (http://www.accidentalhedonist.com/index.php/all?cat=263) has become the path to gold for many...

That said, if I am thirsty or actually dying of thirst I will pay, but generally I like to filter, through reverse osmosis, my own water. I carry it with me in a 21 gallon tank in the back of my vehicle, pumping it out using the very same bottles I occasionally purchase for the thrill of being apart of the Pepsi generation...

[FortyMileDesert]

My thoughts on conservation of energy and less pollution - (just my $.02):

* Ship stuff ground instead of by air. The reason that it's cheaper, is that it takes way less energy to run a truck or two than a 747. Then there's also railroads.

* Bring back schoolbuses in affluent neigborhoods. A schoolbus takes way less energy to transport 40 little kids than 40 moms in 40 suvs.

*** I could go on, but..........

[RoundOut]

* Bring back schoolbuses in affluent neigborhoods. A schoolbus takes way less energy to transport 40 little kids than 40 moms in 40 suvs.

Bring back school uniforms, while we're at it. No more peer pressure, Goths, gangs, freaks, materialism.... Let the kids develop their personalities based on what is inside, not how much money their folks can afford on their wardrobe. Let them carry a fancy book bag, if they have to be different. Many of the parochial schools still employ a uniform policy for this very reason. Don't get me started.
:PROFSheriffHL:

[whitethaiger]

..
Also noticed the author claims a 1 liter bottle uses 125 grams of PET. The heaviest 1 liter we currently produce weighs 33 grams...although we did at one time use a 37g preform for both a 1 liter and a 1.5 liter IIRC.

Got curious and just put an empty 1.25 liter plastic bottle for carbonated water on the kitchen scale: 58g including lid and label. Is Fiji water carbonated? If not they could probably use a less sturdy bottle like those 33g bottles. So that 125 is way out of line.

[Wanderlusty]

Reading this thread is making me thirsty. Anyone have some bottled water?:elkgrin:

[goodtimes]

Is Fiji water carbonated? If not they could probably use a less sturdy bottle like those 33g bottles. So that 125 is way out of line.

I don't think Fiji is carbonated. Even if it is, you can run carb in a 33 gram 1 liter, providing it has a 26 or 26mm neck finish. When you step up to the 38mm finish (like the 1 liter Global Swirl bottle that Pepsi uses), your weight goes up due to the amount of material in the neck.

We do a burst test on our 33 gram 1 liter bottles, minimum burst strength is around 140 psi. For non-carb you can run MUCH lighter. We used to produce a 15 gram 500mL water bottle, and have even ran trials as low as 12 gram. but once your wall thickness drops below ~.004", the bottles crush really easily...so you end up having to put alot of contours into the panels to regain the strength. Of course this drives the price of molds through the roof, which drives the cost of the finished bottle up, offsetting any cost savings from the lower resin cost.

[whitethaiger]

I don't think Fiji is carbonated. Even if it is, you can run carb in a 33 gram 1 liter, providing it has a 26 or 26mm neck finish. When you step up to the 38mm finish (like the 1 liter Global Swirl bottle that Pepsi uses), your weight goes up due to the amount of material in the neck.

We do a burst test on our 33 gram 1 liter bottles, minimum burst strength is around 140 psi. For non-carb you can run MUCH lighter. We used to produce a 15 gram 500mL water bottle, and have even ran trials as low as 12 gram. but once your wall thickness drops below ~.004", the bottles crush really easily...so you end up having to put alot of contours into the panels to regain the strength. Of course this drives the price of molds through the roof, which drives the cost of the finished bottle up, offsetting any cost savings from the lower resin cost.

Great info, I enjoy learning this stuff. Kind of like that Discovery Channel show "How it's Made"

Got another data point on plastic bottle weight: 1gal (~3.75l) juice bottle with lid and labels: 152g.

[DaveInDenver]

We do a burst test on our 33 gram 1 liter bottles, minimum burst strength is around 140 psi.
Several years ago ('94,'95 time frame) I was working for a place that did food and beverage packaging. One of the things we came up with was a LIN injector for non-carbonated drinks and Pepsi was our main user. They wanted to figure out a way to be able to (1) preserve the stuff better using the nitrogen to displace the air in the headspace and (b) stack the pallets higher (IIRC they usually wanted ~60 psi in the bottle). So we came up with this thing that would put a little squirt of liquid nitrogen in each bottle right before it was capped. Getting the charge right at first was interesting to say the least. Nitrogen expands about 650 times it's volume when it evaporates, so just a little will do ya. When the line would slow down, invariably one bottle would get a double shot and would blow up on the capper. I remember the Torrance, CA, 2L line was bad about this, we'd blow up bottles all over. I wonder if they're still using those things? I haven't been in a soft drink plant in years now. Ah, good times, goodtimes.

[goodtimes]

Nitrogen dosers are still in use, and yes, they still tend to blow up bottles if the line backs up....speaking of blowing up bottles....drop a couple of dry ice pellets into a empty 2 liter bottle, pour in a couple inches of water, cap it, set it outside of the cycle counters door and run like hell. :sombrero:

[DaktariEd]

Yup! Always cracks me up watching people buying all that bottled water. Not only paying exorbitant prices, but thinking they are somehow "greener" (read, "better") than other people. :bowdown:

I get a number of 20 oz waters from WalMart once a year or two. The size is perfect for my Igloo icebox I carry in my truck, and my fanny pack bottle pouch. I refill each bottle over and over (with filtered water) until I break it, lose it, give it away, or whatever.

I chose a carbon block based water filter system rather than a reverse osmosis system because the RO wastes as much water as you are "purifying" in the process. This carbon block system is good enough that I used it successfully for years to filter water for a Reef Tank I kept at the time. For those of you who have had coral you know how very pure the water has to be to sustain the reef environment.

Works for me....and it makes me feel soooo GREEN!!!

:sombrero:

[Robthebrit]

I agree its stupid, water that costs more than gas? How did that happen? How can something that falls from the sky be valuable? And the stuff that falls from the sky is probably cleaner.

I know Sparkletts have been busted a few times by the FDA for having water that is not up to standard. Sparkletts is nothing but filtered domestic water, it say so on the bottle - "Sparkletts crystal fresh water is purified using microfiltration, reverse osmosis and ozonation (minerals added)"

Other than the minerals added isn't this water every decent water filter does? You can get just as clean, if not cleaner, water from an MSR filter and pond water.

The label goes on to say "Contains purified water and specially selected minerals for a clean fresh taste". Now then, call me crazy but do you really have to add things to make it 'taste clean and fresh'.

Rob

[mountainpete]

This has created a lot of great discussion! I have learned a great deal from following the thread.

But, I wanted to wait a bit before I answered the question myself. Does information like this sway MY purchase patterns?

The answer is yes.

Today I went to Safeway for lunch and picked a bottle of water off the shelf like I regularily do (it became a replacement for Coke and other soft drinks for me about a year ago). I actually looked at the bottle, thought of the discussion here and put it back on the shelf. It wasn't even a Fiji brand - it was a Safeway generic spring water. Instead I went back to the office and re-filled my Nalgene bottle from the tap. Not only does the water taste just as good, I saved myself about $1 and made myself feel good in the process.

I agree with the vast majority of comments posted so far. I can see flaws in the presented math big enough to drive a Unimog through. The author doesn't paint a true picture of the impacts. But the bottom line is that this information made me change my buying habits - at minimum for today. We'll see what happens next week.

Pete

[Ursidae69]

Yup! Always cracks me up watching people buying all that bottled water. Not only paying exorbitant prices, but thinking they are somehow "greener" (read, "better") than other people. :bowdown:


I don't agree, most of the "green" people I know drink well or tap water for free, that is the green thing to do. Only in America where 99% of our tap water is just fine, would something like bottled water go over so well.

[DaveInDenver]

I agree its stupid, water that costs more than gas? How did that happen? How can something that falls from the sky be valuable? And the stuff that falls from the sky is probably cleaner.

Yeah, that does seem counter intuitive, doesn't it? Bottled water is silly expensive. But the fact is in the western US that is the case and it's because there's not enough of it to go around. You guys out in SoCAL really should think about that. We're all at the mercy of how much snow we get here in the Rockies (and your Sierra Nevada) and you are sorta living on borrowed water. The Lower Basin states (primarily CA) have been getting unused water borrowed from the Upper Basin states for years. If a drought cycle became bad enough to drain the reservoirs completely, CA and SoAZ would be pretty much out of luck if CO, UT, NM and WY ever get to the point of using our full allocation.

The Colorado River is divided into Upper and Lower Basin allocations by the Colorado River Compact, each getting 7.5 million acre-feet. Upper states (mainly the source) are CO, NM, WY and UT, Lower states are CA, AZ and NV (primarily users, although some tributaries do flow in, like the Gila River in AZ). The problem is that around 1922, when the Compact was signed, the river was flowing between 15 and 20 million acre-feet and so they assumed it always would, but historically the river will vary as much as 5 to 25 million acre-feet. The Upper states haven't been able to always use the whole 7.5 million acre-feet, so under what's essentially a gentlemen's agreement we let the down river states use the excess. But we can legally at any time start using our allocation. To compound the problem we owe Mexico 1.5 million acre-feet, which it rarely gets. We do have the stored water, but a reduced flow of the Colorado River for long enough will drain them. Lake Powell was pretty low in 2003 and 2004 and that drought up here wasn't historically all that long.

Everyone in the 7 Colorado River states should read a book called Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner. It goes through the history of water and water rights in the West, with emphasis on the Colorado River and LA's William Mulholland and the LA water board. Water rights are probably one of the strongest legally defended things in the West, even over land and mineral rights in many cases. There's even a water court in most states and the US Supreme Court has heard arguments over use of the Colorado River, it's so important.

[DaktariEd]

I don't agree, most of the "green" people I know drink well or tap water for free, that is the green thing to do. Only in America where 99% of our tap water is just fine, would something like bottled water go over so well.

You're right, Chuck...it's not so much the "greenies" I should have been poking at but the folks who see themselves as "healthier" (or better, etc.) than folks who choose other drinks for their meals. It's that self-righteous attitude I respond to...

Funny thing is that some of these "healthier-than-thou" folks are going to end up dead sooner than a lot of us. There is medical evidence building that extreme diets (uber-healthy?) and too-low body weight may be factors in an early death, contrary to what these folks actually believe.

Now that doesn't directly relate to the topic at hand...

But paying those kind of exorbitant prices for bottled water on a regular basis just seems downright stupid!

Check out also the United Nations' study on bottled water around the world. Fully 25% of samples tested were nothing more than rebottled, non-purified tap water! (I'll look for the source/citation). :yikes:

[DaktariEd]

The True Cost of Bottled Water

03 May 2001
Gland, Switzerland - In light of a new independent study WWF, the conservation organization, is urging people to drink tap water, which is often as good as bottled water, for the benefit of the environment and their wallets. According to the study, Bottled Water: Understanding a social phenomenon, commissioned by WWF, bottled water may be no safer, or healthier than tap water in many countries while selling for up to 1000 times the price. Yet, it is the fastest growing drinks industry in the world and is estimated to be worth US$22 billion annually. The study reveals that the bottled water market is partly fuelled by concerns over the safety of municipal water and by the marketing of many brands which portray them as being drawn from pristine sources and as being healthier than tap water. However, some bottled waters only differ from tap water in the fact that they are distributed in bottles rather than through pipes. In fact there are more standards regulating tap water in Europe and the US than those applied to the bottled water industry. "Our attitudes towards tap water are being shaped by the pollution which is choking the rivers and streams which should be veins of life," argues Richard Holland, Director of WWF's Living Waters Campaign. "We must clean up and properly protect these waters at source, and not just at the treatment works, so that we can all rest easy in drinking from the tap." The study acknowledges that while bottled water has the advantage of being generally safer in areas where tap water may be contaminated, boiling or filtering local water renders it safe at a much lower cost for people on a low income. However, according to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), in terms of nutritional value, bottled water is no better than tap water. It may contain small amounts of minerals but so does tap water from many public municipal water supplies. Some consumers prefer bottled water to tap water for taste reasons. WWF argues that water companies have an important responsibility to ensure that they consistently produce water that is not only safe but also pleasant to drink. The study also finds that every year 1.5 million tons of plastic are used to bottle water. Toxic chemicals can be released into the environment during the manufacture and disposal of the bottles. Furthermore, a quarter of the 89 billion litres of water bottled worldwide annually are consumed outside their country of origin. Emissions of the green house gas carbon dioxide, caused by transporting bottled water within and between countries, contribute to the global problem of climate change. "Bottled water isn't a long term sustainable solution to securing access to healthy water," said Richard Holland. "Clean water is a basic right. Protecting our rivers, streams and wetlands will help ensure that tap water remains a service which delivers good quality drinking water for everyone at a fair price."

source: http://www.panda.org/about_wwf/what_we_do/freshwater/news/index.cfm?uNewsID=2250

[goodtimes]

The True Cost of Bottled Water

03 May 2001. . . Some consumers prefer bottled water to tap water for taste reasons. WWF argues that water companies have an important responsibility to ensure that they consistently produce water that is not only safe but also pleasant to drink.

I wish that the City of Tucson would read that. I don't drink tap water because, to me, it tastes bad. While it presents no health risk, I simply don't like it. So I buy a case of bottled water (in 500mL bottles) every year or two...then, like so many others, I filter my tap water and refill the water bottles until they are either lost, given away, damaged, or otherwise depart company with me. I prefer this to Nalgene bottles because if I run one over, lose it at someone elses house, etc., the economic cost to me is pretty much negligable.

Keeping in mind what I just said about my own personal use (and re-use) of PET bottles...you should NOT refill PET bottles. There are strict controls in the manufacturing and filling processes to eliminate the possibility of contamination Once the bottle is opened and the water consumed, the bottle is no longer free from contamination. Bacteria can, and does, grow inside of them. This bacteria does pose a health risk. So refill at your own risk. ;)

[d1sc0ver]

WOW...3 years and 3 months. This is quite a resurrection...is it a record?

[goodtimes]

Nah -- just another spammer.

[tiresmokindad]

Yes I think goodtimes. :chef: I will cook a delicious food. SPAM! :D I think you are hungry now. :D:victory::coffeedrink:

[AxeAngel]

A former coworker worked for a private equity company that owned FIJI and POM(pomegranate juice). Some food for though - their shipping costs are more than all other costs combined.

You don't want to even know what they did to the local sheep farmers that abutted their wells.

[arktrekker]

I was actually reading through this and got to this page before I realized the age of the thread. I have a fiji water bottle that I have been using for almost as long as this thread has been around. Of course I live very close to Hot Springs Arkansas and get most of our drinking water there in 5 gallon jugs straight from the source for free. Been using the same jugs for a while.

[zidaro]

Big article on the further devastation that FIJI has caused lately, in Mother Jones Mag. couple months ago. Too bad it never reaches mainstream media.
Definite boycott to a company where the term "green" means only $$$