Are FWC campers worth the money?

[waynemaple]

I need to be sold a little more to spend the big bucks. Can they hold up and last until the loan is paid? Two side windows or one? with or without a furnace? I love this country.

[Northern Explorer]

Been happy with mine. I sure hope it hold up another 10 months (when the loan is paid off). I plan on using it for many years after that. :smiley_drive:

Mine didn't come with an extra window option so I can only say that the windows and screens in the pop up section let in plenty of light and ventilation.

I went with relatively few options because I wanted to keep the weight down. I did however go with the furnace because of the climate that I live in (great lakes area). The auxiliary battery system w/ separator is a must as far as I am concerned. I also went with the water pump. Check out the link in my sig for a few other things I have done.

[Rockcrawler]

They are definitely worth it... especially when you find a good used one. Ours is a 2002 and has a few cosmetic issues from the use over the years, but mechanically everything works as it should. We are the 3rd owners and from what I understand it led a pretty easy life before we got it as an on-road camper for state park use etc. Since we acquired it, it has been off road on top of the mountains in Utah and Arizona, through KOFA and several other offroad trips that I can't remember at the moment. They are most definitely built to last.

[davidshourd]

I also got mine used almost a year ago (FWC Eagle 2008'). it has been down to Utah once for a week out in the canyonlands, and dozens upon dozens of trips throughout Oregon, Washington and Idaho. Primarily on back roads with rock, snow, dirt, mud, logs, you get the idea. no failures of any kind to record. worth the money, and you will immediatly realize that once it is sitting in your truck. Good luck, and keep us posted as to what direction you go.

check out this video of us down in canyondlands Utah last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKRZlUyRMJ0 There should be a couple of them once you get to this link. but these show just how much beating they can take when mounted correctly to the right truck.

where in Oregon are you? I am out in Lake Oswego if you wanted to check one out in person first.

[waynemaple]

Thanks for the info, and advice. I know I'll be happy, I just have to convince the Mrs. There is only one lightweight camper on the market for this truck, so I pretty much have two choices for 4 season camping,;Tow trailer or Spend the cash on a pop up. Say "ya to da UP eh", Northern Exp! I grew up by the Mighty Mac. If you need some fun trails, for the coly, PM me sometime. I've wheeled with S-10s mostly, and a sweet 1954 ford tractor, all over the Mackinac area. Not alot of people+boredom=create your own fun!!!

[waynemaple]

Nice truck and good video David, would love to test the Canyon there soon.

[Larry]

Everybody has an opinion and here is mine…..

I have come to notice a trend with the FWC crowd here and on other sites, as it seems so many people buy theirs used. Does anybody buy theirs new anymore? I have to tell you, after looking at them first hand in Denver this past winter at the show I can see why so many people patiently search and wait for a nice used one to pop up. FWC are built for the long haul and hold up incredibly well. As with any new product, purchasing a new one gets pretty pricy just to cover the bill of materials. Just as you can’t build the same exact house now that you built 30 years ago for the same money.

In my opinion, the down side of a FWC is a 2010 model looks just like a 1984 model. That is a huge turn off for me. Why bother buying a new one that looks just like a 25+ year old one? So you get black framed rounded windows instead of square ones??

As well as they are built, and as strong as that aluminum frame is, I don’t feel right about dropping $20,000 for a brand new Grandby that has corrugated aluminum siding and an old looking interior package. In the RV market, only the cheapest and lowest cost entry level class B RV’s and towables come with corrugated aluminum siding while everything else comes with smooth composite blow molded outer panels that look more modern and look a lot more at home on today’s smooth body styled trucks. I have a hard time believing there is that much of a weight penalty to use composite outer panels…even if it was an option.

I am a FWC fan but will continue on with my search for a nice used one as well but if I am going to settle for ancient looking corrugated siding and old looking interior….I am not paying $17,000+ to get it.

I will also say, while at the Denver show the folks from Hallmark seemed a lot more interested in chatting with customers than I found at the FWC booth. While the Hallmark is in a different category than the FWC, Hallmark is a viable alternative for the money (if purchasing new) while the features and weight penalty justify the cost more than the FWC does in my opinion. At least for the full-size truck crowd.

Sorry Stan…. I am just sayin’ . Your camper needs an exterior update badly as well as your website. Last year you were asking for input for a new website. We are 10 years into the millennium here…..it is not 1984 anymore. My preference is FWC and I hope you realize your biggest fans can be the toughest of critics too. I have no problem with purchasing a new one….just not one that looks like a 1980’s model

[davidshourd]

Everybody has an opinion and here is mine…..

I have come to notice a trend with the FWC crowd here and on other sites, as it seems so many people buy theirs used. Does anybody buy theirs new anymore? I have to tell you, after looking at them first hand in Denver this past winter at the show I can see why so many people patiently search and wait for a nice used one to pop up. FWC are built for the long haul and hold up incredibly well. As with any new product, purchasing a new one gets pretty pricy just to cover the bill of materials. Just as you can’t build the same exact house now that you built 30 years ago for the same money.

In my opinion, the down side of a FWC is a 2010 model looks just like a 1984 model. That is a huge turn off for me. Why bother buying a new one that looks just like a 25+ year old one? So you get black framed rounded windows instead of square ones??

As well as they are built, and as strong as that aluminum frame is, I don’t feel right about dropping $20,000 for a brand new Grandby that has corrugated aluminum siding and an old looking interior package. In the RV market, only the cheapest and lowest cost entry level class B RV’s and towables come with corrugated aluminum siding while everything else comes with smooth composite blow molded outer panels that look more modern and look a lot more at home on today’s smooth body styled trucks. I have a hard time believing there is that much of a weight penalty to use composite outer panels…even if it was an option.

I am a FWC fan but will continue on with my search for a nice used one as well but if I am going to settle for ancient looking corrugated siding and old looking interior….I am not paying $17,000+ to get it.

I will also say, while at the Denver show the folks from Hallmark seemed a lot more interested in chatting with customers than I found at the FWC booth. While the Hallmark is in a different category than the FWC, Hallmark is a viable alternative for the money (if purchasing new) while the features and weight penalty justify the cost more than the FWC does in my opinion. At least for the full-size truck crowd.

Sorry Stan…. I am just sayin’ . Your camper needs an exterior update badly as well as your website. Last year you were asking for input for a new website. We are 10 years into the millennium here…..it is not 1984 anymore. My preference is FWC and I hope you realize your biggest fans can be the toughest of critics too. I have no problem with purchasing a new one….just not one that looks like a 1980’s model

good point, and well put.

[Stan@FourWheel]

Hello Larry

No hard feelings.

The forums are here for just this reason, so you can all discuss the pro's & con's, likes & dislikes of what is out there, share experiences. We encourage this.

We know that our campers are not for everyone. That is why there are 4 or 5 other big pop-up camper manufactures and we all seem to keep on building campers year after year.

Each company has a focus and a market share they go after.

Yes, we do sell new campers here, lol. For the past 10 - 15 years we have been selling approx. 300 campers each year (+ or -). We are not a big company, but we stay busy for our size & number of employees we have.

We have been building the FWC's for 35 years now and keep building what works. The aluminum siding works. It might not look as nice as the fiberglass sides, but our customers are usually looking for a camper that is "durability & utility" oriented. Most of our customers are not looking for the frills, bells & whistles, or the fancy paint job. They seem to be very simplistic folks & minimalists at heart.

If you ever have looked for or tried to find a used four wheel camper, most people realize how much in demand they are. When most people do a web search for "other" used pop-up campers on the market they can usually find quite a few for sale at any one time. Not so easy to find a used FWC. This is why we know what we are doing is right & that people like our products (or at least we think so, giggles). Who knows, we could be wrong. But as long as people keep buying as they are, I think the owner of the company here will keep building what we have build so well, for so many years.

I'm a "used" kinda of guy myself. If I can find a good deal on a used camper and save some cash, count me in! But there are some customers that don't mind spending the money to order a new camper with just the right options, the right sized camper for their truck, and with the new camper smell. Some used campers I have seen over the years were in excellent / like new condition. Other were beat, dirty, and smelly. It just depends on how the original owner took care of the camper. Some potential FWC customers just get tired of looking for a used FWC, tired of missing each used camper that hits CL by a few hours, and end up ordering a new one.

We all have different wants & needs. It is the beauty of living here in the USA. We as customers have lots of different choices.

Hopfully in the future Four Wheel Campers will be able to experiment with some new styles. We do consider all the options out there, we really do. But we continue to build what works.

Happy Camping !


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[Regcabguy]

I'm a fan of the dated corregated aluminum exterior based on the appearance of a fiberglass exterior motorhome and another Northstar like mine with smooth exterior. Both look weathered and frankly,fragile. Stan makes the best offroad camper out there and packs a lot of practical and functional features into one. If I wasn't so darn tall I'd buy one.

[Stan@FourWheel]

The campers (Grandby / Hawk / Keystone) we build for the Ford superduty trucks have 6' 7" of interior headroom when popped up ?

:)



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. . . If I wasn't so darn tall I'd buy one.



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.

[waynemaple]

Thanks to all and this is very helpful information. I have been looking for two years to find a used FWC that fits my truck bed. I don't mind buying used at all, they just don't make that many small campers. I don't have a problem with buying new, the product just has to last under normal wear conditions. I will soon be ordering a custom Finch shell, unless NorthernExplorer will sell his:elkgrin:.Hey Stan(FWC) could you speed up production from 12 to 6 weeks, if I help build it. Just a thought.

[davidv]

Stan,

Is this some sort of Apple inspired "product leak." I hear the commitment to corrugated sided camper, the suggestion of possible new materials, and then pictures of this (i know this next statement outs me as not totally committed as form follows function minimalist ) incredibly awesome looking smooth sided 4 wheel camper.

Do tell more!!

Dave

[kcowyo]

Everybody has an opinion and here is mine…..


A lot of well thought-out and fair comments, several that I agree with...




I will also say, while at the Denver show the folks from Hallmark seemed a lot more interested in chatting with customers than I found at the FWC booth.


I'll take a slight exception to this comment though... In fairness Larry, I worked that show for 5 long days, in front of thousands of people, on our feet with no breaks and we spoke to as many folks as possible until all of their questions were answered and my voice was shot. While there was no way for the two of us to talk to every person who came by the booth, we tried our best and worked our butts off while practically having to yell at folks over the jumping water dogs next door... A week like that might have killed a lesser man, ha! ;)

I'm sorry we didn't get a chance to visit though... If you had said, "I'm Larry on ExPo, with the 8.1 in the '78 Chevy", I would have known exactly who I was talking to. I met a lot of folks from ExPo that week in Denver, and we were overwhelmed at the response from the public. FWC still has many loyal local owners from their days when they started in Colorado.




I don't have a problem with buying new, the product just has to last under normal wear conditions.

I put my '92 through as many abnormal conditions as anyone I know of... Structurally, it's still sound & solid. Externally, the appearance belies it's age. Some "wear items" such as cushions & flooring have taken a beating and require maintenance or eventual replacement. But they should last the duration of your loan. The reliability & durability of these units far exceeds, and in my mind outweighs, the perceived dated appearance.

Something else to be aware of that seldom gets mentioned about these units is their incredibly high resale value. If you buy a new camper and in a year or two decide it's not right for your family or 'travelling style', with a fair asking price, you can more often than not, sell these within a week of listing it. The flip side of used models being a pain to find, is that new ones are often a breeze to sell. Points to consider...

.

[Larry]

Thanks for the receptive reply Stan. You are a very patient PR spokeman! The smooth sided pictures you posted leave one to think I am not the only one with a corrugated siding hang up. Perhaps I should call you to discuss exterior options outside of regular production specs. I hear you on the waiting game for the perfect used “thing” as I went through that for a topper on my ’78 and gave up on that quest and ordered a new Snugtop. BTW….the Grandby I want is for my 2005 HD standard cab long bed…not the ’78.

It is nice to see you post that you encourage likes and dislikes. Perhaps you can print this as ammo with respect to what customers want and present it at your next company staff meeting with the owners of FWC when they beat on the sales and PR staff to cultivate new conquest customers as all companies seem to do when they want to grow a business.

I am loosely related to your industry as my company manufacturers motorized stripped chassis and cab chassis for the RV and commercial truck industry and are members of RVIA. The echo we hear from both RV and Commercial end users is they are tired of rusting sheet metal, looking for weight savings, MPG gains and GVWR gains and we are exploring exterior alternatives similar to the material used on GM truck sportside beds from a few years ago (RRIM -Reinforced Reaction Injection Molded) polyurea polymer body panels as well as other composites in order to save weight, add strength, resist corrosion and UV resistant. I don’t know how well this material would work for FWC or add to your build complexity but maybe it is something to look at if the engineering and materials cost drives a business case and reasonable price for the end user. Not to say your old corrugated aluminum is heavy or corrosion prone…it is just out of date. Yes, corrugated siding “works” but so did carburetors, breaker point ignition, drum brakes and direct drive transmissions in my industry. There is always room to make a better widget even if it is only for appearance.

Kcowyo,

Take no acception. I have worn many of holes in carpet at booths at industry shows as well. Like yourself, our ambassadors spend more time out on the show circuit than our own employees. Long shows can take it’s toll on anybody. I totally understand but I actually did speak with you behind your Tundra and I did mention that I learned about the show via Expo and traveled 150 miles to see a FWC in real life. While we were chatting another gentleman that you were previously were talking to returned and you continued on with him while I was looking over your camper. I respected your conversation and let you have your time with him then I walked over to the other guy that was working the show with you, who I specifically asked if he was Stan, which he was not, and barely showed an interest in speaking with me while I looked over the other camper. Maybe I turned him off when I crawled on my exterior corrugated aluminum soapbox? LOL

[washington taco]

I looked hard at both campers @ EXPO 2010 (Hallmark) & (Four Wheel). I feel it will take a factory visit for me to decide. I will be at the Four Wheel factory this summer and Hallmark next. I must admit the Hallmark is much more contemperary looking and the Four Wheel has the outstanding rep! Tuff choice, but my on line build out price ran about $19,000 for ethier one. The reason for the long drawn out purchase is I have daughter that will be attending college soon and thats one years tuition. The other factor for me is the next truck full size VS mid size. The Hallmarks are heavy.

[NothingClever]

... In fairness Larry, I worked that show for 5 long days, in front of thousands of people, on our feet with no breaks and we spoke to as many folks as possible until all of their questions were answered and my voice was shot. While there was no way for the two of us to talk to every person who came by the booth, we tried our best and worked our butts off while practically having to yell at folks over the jumping water dogs next door...

Yes, he did.

[NothingClever]

I respected your conversation and let you have your time with him then I walked over to the other guy that was working the show with you, who I specifically asked if he was Stan, which he was not, and barely showed an interest in speaking with me while I looked over the other camper. Maybe I turned him off when I crawled on my exterior corrugated aluminum soapbox? LOL

That was probably Tom, the owner of the company. I'm betting you caught him at a bad moment. When I was there, he was engaging, courteous and affable. I didn't make a purchase and I'm young enough that he could have easily flicked me off his coat sleeve but he didn't...he told me he was fine with my not purchasing and that he was in the conversation for the long run.

[NothingClever]

The reason for the long drawn out purchase is I have daughter that will be attending college soon and thats one years tuition. The other factor for me is the next truck full size VS mid size. The Hallmarks are heavy.

And ditto....college is about 4 years out for my son but it's weighing on my mind. I'll be retiring at the same time so, yeah, I'm at that point in life where every toy purchase get scrutinized. The Ducati Multistrada is looking less and less "right now" and more and more "uhhh, next year...maybe".

[Regcabguy]

The campers (Grandby / Hawk / Keystone) we build for the Ford superduty trucks have 6' 7" of interior headroom when popped up ?

:)



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. I should have said elbow room. My wife and I tend to bump into each other in the Northstar as it is. What your design provides is bookoo headroom in the sleeping area. Due to the underbed storage on mine(much appreciated btw) the distance between mattress and ceiling is pretty tight. Everything's a tradeoff.:sombrero:

[waynemaple]

Thanks to Steve @ FWC for putting together my Finch order. After looking at an Eagle model nearby I've decided to get one. They are no doubt worth the money!!! Until August happy tent camping.:wings:

[davidshourd]

right on man! we must go out once you get that thing! still down for some camping in the near future?

[NothingClever]

I'm wiring money tomorrow morning for a 2009 Fleet which the owner (retired) slept in 2 times and decided it was too small. For two nights of slumber and for helping him get it out of his garage, he knocked off $2,500 from the factory price.

Tomorrow I'm also dropping off my truck at Armorology for some suspension work and to nail down a front and rear bumper design.

Sometime this summer I'll probably get the Supercharger. If not this summer, then next summer after I get back from Afghanistan.

Right now the purchase and truck prep are still simply the culminating acts of a long research project. I'm sure I'll be giddy the first time I pull in to a mountain state park, flip on the heater, snuggle up next to Mama, the baby and the dog and dream about espresso from our new Bacchi in the morning after a nice trail run.

Now to find a buyer for my Technitop and my Can-Back.

[kcowyo]

Ohh yeah! Great news, glad that worked out for both of you guys, NothingClever and waynemaple. Congrats on your purchases!


Hope you both enjoy - :smiley_drive:

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[oly884]

I've had mine since 2006 and I couldn't be happier. It's survived -10 in Montana (thanks to the furnace) and plenty of heat over in eastern WA. Heck, it may even survive my 2 week trip to Montana!

In all seriousness, it's something that I don't regret one second for purchasing.

[Northern Explorer]

Great news. Too bad you have to wait until August. What options did you go with?

[waynemaple]

So the run down on the camper is FWC Finch shell model with; ext cab over bed,mech camper jacks, furnace,Thule track system,Artic pack,roll over couch bed,aux battery sys, tan cloth interior, and all the fun that comes with customizing it. I plan on in the future adding; solar recharge kit/ extra batt, porta potty, led light kits, space for cook stove and porta sink ( unit that I build), cork flooring(for insulation and feel on those cold mornings), wind/ branch shield, exterior lighting, wild Bear security system, of course a gun rack( joking), entry/exit ramp for my senior Akita( his jumping days are over), Side awning from Thule http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/orsracksdirect_2104_57523036, some kind of 12v cooler??? and alot of other small things over time. All the FWC fans have helped alot with thier upgrade info and support, thanks. Now time to work on the truck, needs brakes and injector cleaning. Or should I say time to test the GM loaner car on the dunes, I mean trail...

[davidshourd]

Right on. building it out should be a good time. and since you will have all of the base stuff already installed you should be able to make a pretty sweet set up.
I like that awning, I had not seen that one before. I would like to figure a way to mount it directly to the side of the camper. maybe some quick clips that go on the side of the roof so you could just clip it onto the roof when you get set up. have a couple clips around the camper (Back, and both sides) so you could move it around depending on the site....

[NothingClever]

The only options my Fleet's PO didn't get were the solar panel and the Yakima track system.

What grabbed me most was the already complete dinette conversion.

I'm starting to get pretty excited to get the camper installed and....wait for it....wander the west :sombrero: .

[Desert Drifter]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!! I actually prefer the aluminum siding over filon. Too many filon separation horror stories!!!

I want a Hawk so bad I can taste it!!! With all the options I want it is still well under the weight rating for my F150.

I've seen used Hawks for sale but so close to the new price that I should just order a new one with all the options I want. And I can get better financing on a new unit.

Someday!!!!! :drool:

[Rob in MT]

While I can see there may be a difference in product between ATC and FWC when purchasing the kitchen, couch, etc, but is there any difference when buying the shell? When puttng the list of options that I am interested in the cost difference is fairly substantial. thanks

FWC Eagle Shell ATC Bobcat Shell
Driver Side Window $525.00 $495.00
Aux Bat $395.00 $375.00
Screen Door $235.00 nc
Rear Wall Steps $195.00 $175.00
AlumBoat Racks $235.00 $210.00
Extra Cabover $575.00
Install $495.00 $395.00
Heater Box $875.00 $750.00
Camper Jacks $595.00 $580.00
Awning Light $ 45.00 $45.00
Wire For Solar nc $100.00
12v outlet $ 45.00 $55.00
Camper $6,495.00 $6,445.00
$10,710.00 $9,625.00
sales tax $830.03 $745.94
$11,540.03 $10,370.94

[kcowyo]

I'm not privy to what is used through-out either brand, but you could ask FWC about their new "Classic" line... Same design & frame, more basic version, better price point.

Four Wheel Camper Classic - (http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/tcm-exclusive:-2010-four-wheel-camper-classic/)

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[Stan@FourWheel]

Hey Rob in MT

In the end you will need to choose what camper you like best and what camper will suit your needs best.

The ATC campers are nice, but we have a few features that cost more to build and we have a few features I like better over the ATC's (just my opinion and my personal experience).

Here are a few differences that I hope will shed some light on the difference that I know about ...

We use a marine style headliner in the camper. I really prefer this over the cloth headliner. Maybe it is just my preference. I have seen too many of the old cloth headliners fall apart, but they are probably using a better material than the older campers. I have not heard of any complaints on their new camper. Seem to be doing great.

We offer 2 different interior wall colors these days (Birch or Villa Grey Snow White) (I'm pretty sure they use the western oak interior walls). We still can use the Western Oak interior if someone wants it.

We have 4 different interior fabric colors to choose from.

We don't use the exterior storm flaps on the soft sided "pop-up" portion of the camper any longer. It took us many, many months to get it right and go back to the old original FWC pop-up window design. Some people like the exterior flaps, some people don't. We found that most of our customers were not tall enough to roll up the exterior storm flaps and found them a hassle. Sine Oct. 2004 we have not had the exterior storm flaps on the FWC "pop-up" windows.

We use the ploy foam insulation (white styrefoam boards) in the front wall, rear wall, side walls, and the roof on the FWC's.
I think they are still using the spun fiber, fiberglass batting ?

We reinforce our eye nuts in the camper base with a thick aluminum backing plate to make them stronger.

We use the Fan-Tastic roof vent" in all of our campers. The vent lid has a lifetime warranty on it.
Not sure what they are using ?

We can install a "no screw" roof now upon request on most of our campers. This is a BIG plus in my opinion.

We are using a high quality plywood for the camper base (Russian Birch).
I'm not sure what they are using ?

One the interior base of the "shell models" we are finshing off the double step design with paneling & carpet w/ small extra storage areas.

The small side cabinets one the walls are hinged (no sliders anymore).

Driver Side Window (they have us beat on the price).

Aux Battery (FWC uses the Deka sealed AGM glass mat battery).
I don't know what they are using for their aux battery ?

Screen Door (they have us beat on the screen door), but we are now installing radius rear camper doors on all of the FWC. The new camper doors w/ a screen also come standard with the clear screen door slider.

Rear Wall Steps (they have us beat on the price).

Alum/Boat Racks (they have us beat on the price).

Extra Cabover (this is now a "standard item" on an FWC if you order an Eagle Shell. There is no additional cost in your case.

Install ( what are they using for an install on a new Tacoma ?)
External tie downs ??
Inturnal tie downs ?
FWC uses a specially fabricated steel inturnal tie down system that works great.

Heater Box (they have us beat on price).

Camper Jacks (they have us beat on price).

Wire For Solar (FWC nc, $50 to pre-wire and install plug on roof) (they charge $100.00).

12v outlet (FWC now use a "dual 12v" outlet for $45) (they have a single I think for $ 55 ?).

Camper (they have us beat on price by a few bucks).

sales tax (Woodland 8.75%) (Sacramento = ?? %)


Hope this helps.

Either way you will be happy.

Both campers are built well.

Jeff & Marty will take good care of you, we will too.

:)


Happy Camping !



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[Jonathan Hanson]

Roseann and I put over 150,000 miles on our Four Wheel Camper, with no issues at all except for some loose door fittings. For much of that time we were resident naturalists on a wildlife refuge, seven miles of rough dirt from a highway. So every time we went anywhere, even just to town, the camper got 14 miles of rough-road exposure.

It's no wonder the used ones command such high prices.

[snorkel54]

Stan's post shows what a class guy he is.

[Rob in MT]

Thanks, not having to pay for the extended cab brings the Eagle more in line with the Bobcat.

While I can guess, what is the no screw roof? Does this mean the boat racks or anything else attached to the roof goes against the no screw process?

[Sleeping Dog]

Interestingly, a couple of weeks ago I was surfing through a forum that the owner of ATC was participating and was being baited by other participants to rip FWC. He didn't and was very complementary about the product and company but clearly stayed (as Stan has) what he viewed as ATC's advantages.

As a consumer in this industry it's nice to see competition taking place with deportment and class.

Jim

[bill harr]

Jim you are correct. I visited both FWC and ATC looking for my camper. Both pointed out what the advantage was to their camper. Neither bad mouthed the other. Rare in business this days. for my needs I was going to go with the ATC but found a used Hawk at a price I could not pass up.

Both FWC and ATC are worth the $$

Bill in STockton.

Jim I also like your avatar.

[Hilldweller]

I should have said elbow room. My wife and I tend to bump into each other in the Northstar as it is. What your design provides is bookoo headroom in the sleeping area.
Does anybody know how much "headroom" there is in a Hawk or Granby? I'm tossing between a Hawk or Marc's XP Prototype right now :drool: .
I emailed FWC last Saturday but haven't heard back yet...

BTW, the FWC crew was very affable at Overland Expo. So much so that we had dinner with them at the closing ceremonies.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v352/billpearlman/896.jpg

[Stan@FourWheel]

.
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The Hawk, Grandby, & Keystone Model have 6' 6" of interior headroom when the roof is popped up.

There is approx. 27" of space between the cabover bed mattress and the ceiling of the camper.

If you have a Ford F-250 or F-350, there will be 6' 7" of interior headroom inside the camper when the top is popped up.

Hope this helps.

Happy Camping !

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[Hilldweller]

There is approx. 27" of space between the cabover bed mattress and the ceiling of the camper.Wow.
Is that with the 2" or 3" mattress? Can that be stretched a bit? Is there a higher roof option?
I'm wide enough at the shoulders that I have to turn sideways in my house to go through most of the interior doors; I don't know that I could even lay in the FWC bed on my side, roll over without hitting the roof....

[Stan@FourWheel]

Hello there

There is way more room up there than sounds like.

The 27" is more than generous.

I am 6' 4" tall and approx. 260 lbs (pretty big guy).

I took a tape measure here in my office and measured accross my shoulders, maybe like you did after seeing my post of 27", and I was surprised too.

I was thinking ... "wow, he is right, I would not be able to roll over either".

But my next thought was ... "how come ? I have been in those beds for years and had plenty of room to move around".

Ah Ha ! Let me grab the digital camera and jump in the bed.

There is tons of room to move around, roll over, get in & out of the bed.

(see pictures attached)

Sorry I could not get a better looking model for the example pictures (lol)

:)

If you look at a tape measure, it doesn't work.

But when you are up there, there is lots of room.

I still had about 1 foot of extra room between me and the top when I was on my side.

Just thought I would better explain.

Hope this helps.

Happy Camping !


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[Hilldweller]

The wife and I built a mock-up this morning; we took the Conqueror mattress, laid it on the floor, and built a roof over it at the 27" height. I can just barely move around on all-fours under it while she has no issues at all ---- my back hits fully if I put my elbows straight or knees together...
There's no sitting up though.

It'll do; just wish it were higher.

Camper talk is on the back-burner for the time being too. Something a bit more pressing has come up here. :(

[56farmerjohn]

Hello new member here... I bought my FWC "Hawk" model new in 04',It is on my 04 toyota 4X4 Tundra.. Got a lot of options on the camper , refrig, upgraded lights, furnace, artic-pak,screen-door,elec water pump,fantastic fan, mech. jacks, awning , aux battery system..Have had some minor glitches, nothing major.. I have camped all over the U.S.A in this rig , thru snow, wind, rain etc... It hasn't failed me yet!! Downsides , poor sofa design, outside windows too-high, poor fit on the tundra(caused by the tundras shallow bed)lack of storage, sliding doors on the cabs.. Buutt, considering the hard use I've put it thru, it is definitely a keeper...

[Stan@FourWheel]

Glad to hear you are enjoying the camper.

Very glad to hear you are actually using it and exploring too !

Lots of customer high expectations of getting out to explore, but find themselves stuck working all the time, and not getting away to travel as much as they hoped for.

:(



You wrote:

Downsides ...


<< poor sofa design >> We have redesigned the couch since then.


<< poor fit on the tundra (caused by the tundras shallow bed) >> We now offer a custom fit Hawk called the "Kestrel Model" so the camper fits much better on the old Tundra trucks.


<< sliding doors on the cabs >> We now have hinged doors on all of the cabinets.


:)


We have been making many changes over the past few years.


Happy Camping !

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[waynemaple]

Any fwc owners that purchased new have trouble with production times? My sale was in May 18th 2010, and I'm being told that now it won't even be built until September. I was verbally told by my sales person that it would be 12-13 weeks to build. And I had to make all the calls in regards to when it would be ready. I am fuming mad, to already have taken time off to travel with my family, and no camper remotely near the time promissed. Just wondering if anyone else had to deal with this? I have tried to contact Tom Hanagan (general manager) with no luck yet, to find out if this is standard practice with his bussiness. So far the campers seem great, but the service is starting to make me think twice.....to be continued..........

[davidshourd]

that is terrible to hear!

Stan! chime in and let us know what the story is! 12-13 weeks seems like a reasonable production time unless there was something unforeseen?

[dzzz]

Any fwc owners that purchased new have trouble with production times?

Not a FWC owner, but my Alaskan is months late. I ordered in winter, but didn't push it. May is a tough time to order a camper. A month or two late from an optimistic prediction is the norm.

Comment on smooth siding from a earlier post: It just doesn't work well from a strength and showing damage perspective. Why aren't aluminum garage doors smooth?

Smooth siding on a trailer is wavy in a way many people would not accept on a truck camper.

[kcowyo]

I have tried to contact Tom Hanagan (general manager) with no luck yet, to find out if this is standard practice with his bussiness.


Tom owns the company. The buck stops with him and that's who can best answer your question. The fault of the delay is no more the sales staffs, than it's the fault of the waiter who unknowingly serves you an overcooked steak... The sales staff doesn't manufacture the camper, anymore than the waiter cooks your steak.

I understand your rightful frustration waynemaple, but the answer to your questions can't be found here. Your questions & frustration should be directed at Tom. Keep calling.

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[1tonpaulie]

First reply from newbie on side lines. I ordered a New Grandby 1/5/10 from Sean Dempsey in Eagle Wisconsin. He said My Grandby would be built about the first of march and he recevied it March 20th. I think FWC is a Awesome company with great customer service. That being said, A customer should only have to make one phone call to speak to the owner. Mr Tom should call him back in a reasonable amount of time. The company prides them self on customer service.

[waynemaple]

Tom owns the company. The buck stops with him and that's who can best answer your question. The fault of the delay is no more the sales staffs, than it's the fault of the waiter who unknowingly serves you an overcooked steak... The sales staff doesn't manufacture the camper, anymore than the waiter cooks your steak.

I understand your rightful frustration waynemaple, but the answer to your questions can't be found here. Your questions & frustration should be directed at Tom. Keep calling.

.

All this talk about steak is making me hungry again, I should clarify that my frustration is mostly directed at myself for already taking time off work to enjoy a camper that I will not be in possesion of. Your right about the sales staff not being involved with production, and I will be trying again to reach Tom. This thread was very helpful in making my decision about which camper company to buy from, so I thank you for the comments and help everyone.

[Stan@FourWheel]

Hello waynemaple

We are feeling your pain too.

:(

Earlier this year we got slammed with new orders.

Both Steve & myself tried to let customers know of this when they were placing their orders earlier this year and to expect a few months for production times.

We try and get feedback from the owner and the production department week by week so we know what to tell customers for expected delivery times.

Sometimes of the year (slow periods) we can get the campers done before the customers were expecting it, and other times of the year (busy season) it can unfortunately creep past the expected delivery dates depending on the volume of orders.

We have been gradually bumping up inventory for parts & pieces and also adding more staff in the warehouse for production. But it can take weeks and months to get new employees trained and up to speed before we let them loose.

We don't want to hire a bunch of new people and throw them in to start building new campers without the proper training. The over all quality of the camper would suffer if we did that. We want the quality & construction to be top notch and is very important to us.

We apologize for the delays in getting campers ready for all of our customers that ordered earlier this year.

We are trying to get as many campers out the door right now so people can get out and use their new camper.

If we could get the campers ready earlier we would.

Again, I also feel your pain & frustrations !

My forehead is flat these days from banging my head on the wall.

As a sales person it hurts to tell the customer production times are long.

Tom would be the best person to talk with, as he is the owner of the company.

If you would like to e-mail me your name and phone number ... send it to me at ... stan@fourwh.com ... I would be glad to make sure Tom gets the message.

I'm guessing your sales person was Steve ?

Or was it me ?

:O

Either way I would be glad to get the message over to Tom.


Thanks for your understanding.

Talk to you soon.


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[dzzz]

It's surprising how many companies that manufacture for a specific customer order don't track the dates the customers are given. I expect that in many, or even most companies the squeaky wheel get his stuff before the quiet customer.