iPad and Navigation

[Scott Brady]

The iPad has considerable potential as a navigation device. I am currently looking at options for connecting a bluetooth GPS and using the TopoMaps app. or others like it. I do not necessarily intend to keep it running all the time or mounted, but the ability to stop at an intersection on the trail pull-up detailed and large format topo quads is a serious advantage.

My research has led me to several options, including the roqyBluetooth jail break that allows full bluetooth GPS connectivity.
http://www.roqy-bluetooth.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/IMG_0027.png

http://www.roqy-bluetooth.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/IMG_0026-200x300.png

http://www.roqy-bluetooth.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/IMG_0025-200x300.png

I am not very concerned about the jailbreaking component, especially on a device like the iPad (i.e., not my primary communication device, like the iPhone).

Has anyone attempted this?

So far, my favorite navigation app is the Topo Maps for iPad (http://topomapsapp.com/ipad.html)
http://topomapsapp.com/ipad.jpeg

[brained]

I'm working on this exact same setup for myself.

My first choice was for a Notion Ink (the e-ink screen is perfect for this use) but they are having trouble with the Tegra chipset and are delayed until later this year.

Interim choice is an Asus 1000he netbook. Matte screen, SSD, oversized battery, Windows XP, usb GPS puck.

Third choice is the iPad as you've described, vendor lock in is what's keeping it down to last place (I can swap in a fresh battery on the trail with the first two choices).

Sorry I can't be more specific on the iPad use.

[AKRover]

You would only need the bluetooh gps if you have the wifi iPad since the wifi+3G has a gps chip. I have the later and have been playing with Topo Maps and Motionx GPS HD and I am very happy with both.

[tdesanto]

Scott,

I think the iPad could certainly be a great platform for this type of navigation, especially with the built-in GPS option. I wonder, though, about the usefulness of the standard USGS Topo maps for the application you list. I get the impression that in some areas the maps can be out of date and that the info consolidated into other applications, such as Delorme's Topo application might be more current. I.e., Delorme's application combines information from other sources too, and not just from the USGS.

I'm currently using a tablet PC with Delorme's Topo 7, but would certainly like to move to something more streamlined from a hardware standpoint.

I'm curious to hear what you and others find out about the usefuleness of the maps.

Did you decide against getting the one with the built-in GPS or did you have another reason for using a Bluetooth GPS?

[RSB]

I suspect this is because the built-in GPS is not true GPS, nor anything near as good as a receiver w/Flagship SiRFstarIII technology. A dedicated GPS receiver could overcome this.

Scott, I definitely see the potential now w/it being jailbroken! Thank-you for being the guinea pig and showing us this could work. :D


Did you decide against getting the one with the built-in GPS or did you have another reason for using a Bluetooth GPS?

[shane4x4]

I think the iPad will be the perfect device for backcountry navigation, I'm looking forward to giving it the full rundown soon. We're also working on an app that will turn your ipad/iphone into an off-road trail guidebook :)

[RSB]

for example, here's a tracklog comparison between the Garmin 60CS & 60CSx w/SiRF. Obviously, the 60CSx matches the track much better!

http://www.patrick-roeder.de/reviews/pics/tracklogs_02.png

http://www.patrick-roeder.de/reviews/pics/tracklogs_03.png

[DaveM]

for example, here's a tracklog comparison between the Garmin 60CS & 60CSx w/SiRF. Obviously, the 60CSx matches the track much better!

http://www.patrick-roeder.de/reviews/pics/tracklogs_02.png

http://www.patrick-roeder.de/reviews/pics/tracklogs_03.png

I don't know what the interval settings are on those devices but on many GPS units you can specify the track interval. Your images may just be the difference between different interval settings for recording the track points.

[DaveM]

Scott, in your research for this did you find any iPad GPS aps that would allow the unit to display user supplied geo referenced images or vector files as the map?

[1leglance]

I have an extra bluetooth GPS puck laying around I will never use again if you want one to play with Scott.
I can drop it in a USPS Priority mail box and get it too you quick. I used it with my Treo phone a couple of years ago and it was fast from a cold start, quick from a warm start and didn't have trouble in cayons

[RSB]

sorry for not specifying. The interval settings for both units used in these images were set the same, 'Auto' and 'Most Often'. Same conditions, used side by side.


I don't know what the interval settings are on those devices but on many GPS units you can specify the track interval. Your images may just be the difference between different interval settings for recording the track points.

[redbeard]

I suspect this is because the built-in GPS is not true GPS, nor anything near as good as a receiver w/Flagship SiRFstarIII technology. A dedicated GPS receiver could overcome this.

Scott, I definitely see the potential now w/it being jailbroken! Thank-you for being the guinea pig and showing us this could work. :D

It's a real gps, but not as sensitive as the sirfIII. The manufacturers trade off size,power consumption and sensitivity when they create their chips. For a device that is not primarily a gps a less power hungry and sensitive chip was used. But they do use cell tower info when in range of 3g stuff to help you get a lock quicker, which helps offset the disadvantages of the more efficient chip.

I posted a link in another thread that explained the differences.

But the reason it's jail-broken is that I think he has the wifi only iPad, which has no gps. It's certainly nice to know you can get a bluetooth gps working with it.

[Scott Brady]

I have an extra bluetooth GPS puck laying around I will never use again if you want one to play with Scott.
I can drop it in a USPS Priority mail box and get it too you quick. I used it with my Treo phone a couple of years ago and it was fast from a cold start, quick from a warm start and didn't have trouble in cayons

That would be very cool, thanks Lance.

[Ryanmb21]

Why jailbreak it? Is the included gps chip (assuming you have the 3G version) not up to par?

I'm curious of your findings, been thinking about this for awhile. Lots has already been discussed in this similar thread.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37882&highlight=ipad+navigation

[RSB]

wow! Looks like some folks out there already have XP running on the iPad. Could that mean Overland Navigator on the iPad too? hmmmm....

[craig]

wow! Looks like some folks out there already have XP running on the iPad. Could that mean Overland Navigator on the iPad too? hmmmm....

No reason why it wouldn't work.

Craig

[DaveM]

Since no one here seemed to already know, I contacted the TopoMpas for iPad creator and asked about using other geo referenced images besides the USGS GeoTIFF quads. He said it currently wasn't able to do this because of the method he uses to send the image to the app off his server and variations in the GeoTIFF format. He did mention two apps that apparently can do this: Topos2go and Bit Map

Neither looks as robust as the app Scott posted about here but BitMap does look to be able to use any GeoTIFF image you like as long as its in UTMs. That could be great for any one who may want to do their own map annotation directly on the GeoTIFF scan, use other sources of high quality map data besides USGS topos or just want to create their own maps to use on their iPads. I'm going to look into experimenting with BitMap on my iTouch but I'd really like to see how well it works on an iPad.

[RSB]

sweet!! Thanks Craig.

well gentlemen, after looking at the dimensions and realizing the iPad would fit in my rig, I'm convinced. It's smaller than I thought! I'll be ordering me a new wifi model w/Overland Nav & bluetooth GPS. With the ability to jailbreak and access PdaNet on my iPhone, I won't need the 3G model or the $30/mo bill that comes it. :rolleyes: This will be my setup for off the trail use only. I'll stick w/my Garmin nuvi on the road & Garmin 60CSx on foot. The future case Otterbox is coming out puts the icing on the cake! Put my name down on the waiting list... :sombrero: will post pictures!


No reason why it wouldn't work.

Craig

[RSB]

the only primary disadvantages I can see w/this setup is not having a SD slot or the ability to have APRS capability w/my 2m radio and Overland Navigator.

Craig, if I understand it right, a USB to serial connection is the only way to do this?

[RSB]

hmmm... possible solution to transfer radio data to the iPad from a TT3 or Tracker2? don't know about the baud rate compatibility though...

http://www.iogear.com/product_images/web/mt/GBS301_0.jpg

http://www.iogear.com/product/GBS301/

"IOGEAR's Serial Adapter with Bluetooth wireless technology brings wireless Bluetooth technology to your RS-232 serial equipment, allowing you to eliminate messy cables. With a range of up to 330 ft (100 meters), you can communicate with serial devices beyond the reach of conventional cables. Simply plug the wireless adapter into your serial equipment and transfer data to and from Bluetooth-enabled devices.

* Eliminates messy cables and wirelessly communicate with serial RS-232 devices
* Communicates with another IOGEAR Serial Adapter with Bluetooth wireless technology or other Bluetooth-enabled devices
* Auto-connect feature when interconnecting two IOGEAR Bluetooth serial adapters
* Easily accessible DIP switches for baud rate configuration
* Configurable baud rate (9600 to 921600) DB-9 (9-pin) male connector
* Bluetooth class 1 device; range up to 330 ft. (100 meters)
* Compliant with Bluetooth 2.1 specifications
* Supports both DCE and DTE devices
* True plug-n-play, no software required
* Supports RTS/CTS Hardware flow control
* Secure communication using authentication and encryption
* Supports speeds of up to 723.1 Kbps
* Supports Bluetooth Serial Port Profile (SPP)

Device with DB-9 connector and compliant with RS-232 protocol

NOTE: Due to various communication protocols and drivers, this adapter may not work with RS-232 modems, mice, keyboards, cell phones, and devices using proprietary communication protocols."

[redbeard]

, I won't need the 3G model or the $30/mo bill that comes it.

Keep in mind that the $30 bill is only for those who use the 3g, and even then its just month to month. It's not a contract like most phones. You can buy the 3g version and never pay a dollar towards 3g data.

[craig]

the only primary disadvantages I can see w/this setup is not having a SD slot or the ability to have APRS capability w/my 2m radio and Overland Navigator.

Craig, if I understand it right, a USB to serial connection is the only way to do this?

Note: All of my responses here refer to running Overland Navigator on an iPad running Windows XP.

I'm not sure I understand the question, but will do my best.

Overland Navigator will work with any COM port... Serial, USB, Bluetooth, other? I haven't tried it, but you could probably use a Blueport on the serial cable to convert it to a bluetooth connection (E.g. Serial to Bluetooth instead of serial to USB). http://www.gridconnect.com/blueportxp.html

An SD slot isn't required for Overland Navigator to run. You can just copy GPX files to the track directory on the HD instead.

Craig

[craig]

hmmm... possible solution to transfer radio data to the iPad from a TT3 or Tracker2? don't know about the baud rate compatibility though...

http://www.iogear.com/product_images/web/mt/GBS301_0.jpg

http://www.iogear.com/product/GBS301/

"IOGEAR's Serial Adapter with Bluetooth wireless technology brings wireless Bluetooth technology to your RS-232 serial equipment, allowing you to eliminate messy cables. With a range of up to 330 ft (100 meters), you can communicate with serial devices beyond the reach of conventional cables. Simply plug the wireless adapter into your serial equipment and transfer data to and from Bluetooth-enabled devices.

* Eliminates messy cables and wirelessly communicate with serial RS-232 devices
* Communicates with another IOGEAR Serial Adapter with Bluetooth wireless technology or other Bluetooth-enabled devices
* Auto-connect feature when interconnecting two IOGEAR Bluetooth serial adapters
* Easily accessible DIP switches for baud rate configuration
* Configurable baud rate (9600 to 921600) DB-9 (9-pin) male connector
* Bluetooth class 1 device; range up to 330 ft. (100 meters)
* Compliant with Bluetooth 2.1 specifications
* Supports both DCE and DTE devices
* True plug-n-play, no software required
* Supports RTS/CTS Hardware flow control
* Secure communication using authentication and encryption
* Supports speeds of up to 723.1 Kbps
* Supports Bluetooth Serial Port Profile (SPP)

Device with DB-9 connector and compliant with RS-232 protocol

NOTE: Due to various communication protocols and drivers, this adapter may not work with RS-232 modems, mice, keyboards, cell phones, and devices using proprietary communication protocols."

Where does that one get it's power? It would be great if it got it through one of the pins as that would clean up the install and not require batteries like the one I listed.

My Kenwood D710a can be configured to output GPS (w/ APRS positions) at 9600 baud which is in the range of this device. Overland Navigator can support just about any baud rate.

[ThomD]

wow! Looks like some folks out there already have XP running on the iPad. Could that mean Overland Navigator on the iPad too? hmmmm....

Just so nobody gets too excited about this, it isn't really XP on an iPad. It is just a remote desktop session to an XP machine.

[RSB]

sorry, I was referring to APRS capability connecting the iPad to a TT3 or Tracker2. From what I could tell (before finding the serial to bluetooth device), the only way to do this would be via USB to serial. The iPad doesn't have USB connections so this obviously wouldn't be possible.


Note: All of my responses here refer to running Overland Navigator on an iPad running Windows XP.

I'm not sure I understand the question, but will do my best.

Overland Navigator will work with any COM port... Serial, USB, Bluetooth, other? I haven't tried it, but you could probably use a Blueport on the serial cable to convert it to a bluetooth connection (E.g. Serial to Bluetooth instead of serial to USB). http://www.gridconnect.com/blueportxp.html

An SD slot isn't required for Overland Navigator to run. You can just copy GPX files to the track directory on the HD instead.

Craig

[RSB]

pulling this off the manual...

http://gallery.me.com/rsbidinger/100065/blue/web.jpg?ver=12757474220001

is APRS capability operational yet w/Overland Nav? Initially I was planning on purchasing a TT3 to give my Yaesu 7900R APRS capability, but then realized I'd need a 2nd transceiver anyway unless I wanted to dedicate the other side of my Yaesu 100% of the time to the TT3. I may as well get the Kenwood as my dedicated APRS radio!


Where does that one get it's power? It would be great if it got it through one of the pins as that would clean up the install and not require batteries like the one I listed.

My Kenwood D710a can be configured to output GPS (w/ APRS positions) at 9600 baud which is in the range of this device. Overland Navigator can support just about any baud rate.

[RSB]

yes, this is the way I've seen it done the most. However, it's also possible with it being jailbroken. Problem is, it's slooow. So slow in fact, I'm concerned it wouldn't be fluid enough to use w/Overland Navigator, or w/any other nav software for that matter using Windows XP. Combined w/a glossy screen, the lack of USB ports, and the cost of a a serial to bluetooth adapter for APRS capability, it doesn't seem practical for the way I obviously want to use it, essentially, as a UMPC. Therefore, I've changed my mind. Would have ben nice though considering the cost and smaller screen size of the alternative, an actual touch-screen UMPC!

I agree, however, the iPad itself has the potential to be an excellent navigation device for which it is designed. :) I just don't think (as a primary offroad nav system) it's as ideal/practical to use yet as it is to use a netbook. I doubt though we'll need to wait very long to see this happen!


Just so nobody gets too excited about this, it isn't really XP on an iPad. It is just a remote desktop session to an XP machine.

[craig]

Ryan,

Yes, the currently shipping version of Overland Navigator is able to display APRS stations if the TNC/Tracker can output either $GPWPL or $PKWDWPL NMEA sentences (TT4, Kenwood D710a, etc). See the "Anyone using APRS" thread in the HAM section for a couple of screenshots.

Let's start a new thread or use one of the existing Overland Navigator / APRS threads to discuss it further.

[RSB]

great!

yes, indeed. :sombrero:


Ryan,

Yes, the currently shipping version of Overland Navigator is able to display APRS stations if the TNC/Tracker can output either $GPWPL or $PKWDWPL NMEA sentences (TT4, Kenwood D710a, etc). See the "Anyone using APRS" thread in the HAM section for a couple of screenshots.

Let's start a new thread or use one of the existing Overland Navigator / APRS threads to discuss it further.

[Oni]

My buddy has this app on his ipad: http://www.motionx.com/

Played with it a bit and it looks really good. He has the GPS HD. You can look a topos, street maps, satellite maps and more. It has lots of cool features.

[Scott Brady]

Just jail broke the iPad with spirit and then bought the btstack gps. Thanks for sending the bt gps Lance
http://gallery.me.com/overlandjournal/100008/Cydia/web.jpg?ver=12781307290001
Cydia loads with the spirit jailbreak. Gps stack is to the right

Everything works perfect, with full gps functioning in all required apps and fully offline

The bt stack screen
http://gallery.me.com/overlandjournal/100008/Btstack/web.jpg?ver=12781303750001

Topo maps sat works perfect
http://gallery.me.com/overlandjournal/100008/Topo%20Maps%20sat/web.jpg?ver=12781306980001

The excellent topo maps topo app
http://gallery.me.com/overlandjournal/100008/Topo%20maps/web.jpg?ver=12781305990001

[brained]

What is the native resolution of those maps? Can you zoom tighter than that? If so does it pixelate or apply some smoothing?

[Scott Brady]

All zoom in pretty tight

[AKRover]

Thats cool that there is a gps option for wifi ipads. I imagine that the gps chip in the bluetooth unite is a little better then the 3G iPad.

[redbeard]

I'm guessing that the resolution of the topo maps is 250dpi for most states and 400 for california. That's the resolution that they(USGS, State of California) originally scanned it in at. I think there is a project at the USGS to rescan all of them at a higher dpi - like 500 - but it's not a priority as they want to finish the first generation of the USTOPO product.

The imagery they use in the US topo is the NAIP stuff, which is 1 meter color imagery. That's the least you get in the 48 states on the various sites (google, MS, etc), and is usually the best available imagery out in the woods.

I'm not sure what imagery the app uses, but it's likely that it uses the topomaps as provided from USGS.

By contrast, the NG TOPO! I think is 96dpi, though I could be misinformed.

Hopefully this gives some pointers as to what the data sources might be.
http://eros.usgs.gov/#/Find_Data/Products_and_Data_Available/DRGs
http://topomaps.usgs.gov/
http://nationalmap.gov/ustopo/index.html

[haven]

Scott's approach is a great workaround for people who bought the original iPad, and want accurate GPS services.

Since most of us don't have a friend who can donate a free external GPS,
the best idea is to buy the iPad 3G. If you've got the original iPad,
you can sell it for close to what you paid for it on eBay.

The iPad with 3G has the built in GPS. They cost about $130 more
than the standard iPad. You don't need to sign up for a cell phone
contract to use the built in GPS.

[Spur]

Scott's approach is a great workaround for people who bought the original iPad, and want accurate GPS services.

Since most of us don't have a friend who can donate a free external GPS,
the best idea is to buy the iPad 3G. If you've got the original iPad,
you can sell it for close to what you paid for it on eBay.

The iPad with 3G has the built in GPS. They cost about $130 more
than the standard iPad. You don't need to sign up for a cell phone
contract to use the built in GPS.

Is the built-in GPS as robust as an external BT GPS? Is their anything to be gained by adding an external BT GPS if you have the 3G?

Apologies if this has been discussed before.

[evldave]

Is the built-in GPS as robust as an external BT GPS? Is their anything to be gained by adding an external BT GPS if you have the 3G?

Apologies if this has been discussed before.

See Post #7 of this thread. Out of cell tower range, you can (probably) expect GPS tracking on par w/the 60CS, if you use an external GPS w/SIRF III, you will be on par w/the 60CSx. I use the BT-359 w/my netbook and it uses SIRF III and is 1000x better than my old non-SIRF GPS.

Also, a BT GPS can be located near a window if you are having reception issues inside your vehicle.

[Spur]

See Post #7 of this thread. Out of cell tower range, you can (probably) expect GPS tracking on par w/the 60CS, if you use an external GPS w/SIRF III, you will be on par w/the 60CSx. I use the BT-359 w/my netbook and it uses SIRF III and is 1000x better than my old non-SIRF GPS.

Also, a BT GPS can be located near a window if you are having reception issues inside your vehicle.

Thanks. That answers my question. I have the BT 359 for use with my netbook as well. If I ever decide to go the ipad route, I'll definitely want to keep using it.

[off-roader]

Very interesting. After this past weekend's Overland Rally event & speaking with others about this idea including Scott himself, I'm even more interested in using my Wifi Ipad for navigation.

Any recommendations on a BT gps unit? Something reliable & has a long battery life for example?

Any feedback on mounting the Ipad in vehicle? I've seen the new RAM mount. Anyone used it off road? Would it handle a rough trail like the 'con or Dusy Ersham Trail?

Can the camera connect kit with an SD card be used for map storage or is onboard storage the only option for storing map data?

TIA

[yan]

love this thread... this is what i have done in my truck as well... here is a pic of the mount in my tacoma!!!

I'll post more pics... but i use it for OBD II, navigation, music, movies, and more.....

http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_01099.JPG (http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/111469/cat/500)
http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_011111.JPG (http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/111468/cat/500)
http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_01068.JPG (http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/111470/cat/500)

[benedmonson]

This is all great information! I just got in and installed the Ram Mount in my 80 Series. The Ram Mount for the iPad is a nice and tight fit and doesn't seem to move around much on rougher roads. I also like Scott got the Wifi only version, but did not have to jailbreak it due to the introduction of the new bad-elf gps http://bad-elf.com/products/gps/ I will say that the first one arrived working properly except the charge cord wouldn't work. I emailed support and within an hour they had me a new in the mail. This is a new product, but the signal is very strong everywhere on my ipad.

[off-roader]

Ben,

curious if you've checked reception both in canyons as well as in the trees? My use would be primarily off road navigation in those types of areas which are definitely 'challenging' for a gps.

TIA,

Ray

[benedmonson]

Ben,

curious if you've checked reception both in canyons as well as in the trees? My use would be primarily off road navigation in those types of areas which are definitely 'challenging' for a gps.

TIA,

Ray

Sorry Ray,
I used the word 'everywhere' a little too loosely! I've only had it a couple of days, but in my house it locks without the network on extremely quick! I do understand how canyons and jungle canopies affect the GPS signal. Last week in Central America, Graham Jackson's Garmin 276c even would lose signal every once in a while. The one thing you can do with the bad-elf gps is put it on a 6 foot extension and mount it where ever you want to in your vehicle. Below are the listed Tech Specs:
* 66-channel MTK GPS chipset
* Fast GPS lock times
* Up to 10Hz update rate
* SBAS/WAAS/EGNOS/MSAS
* Assisted GPS (when network available)
* Micro-USB port and 6ft cable provided for charging / syncing during use
* App available to update satellite data and firmware
* Max altitude: 60K feet
* Max speed: 1000 mph
Hope this helps. If it has problems then I will go to the blue tooth GPS pucks, but just don't want to jail break if I don't have to!

[cactusjk]

Still looking for a clean FJ Cruiser mount. Also, I am running Overland Nav on a netbook and really like that setup!

[Airmonger]

This is all great information! I just got in and installed the Ram Mount in my 80 Series.

What mount did you use on your 80?


love this thread... this is what i have done in my truck as well... here is a pic of the mount in my tacoma!!!

I'll post more pics... but i use it for OBD II, navigation, music, movies, and more.....

http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_01099.JPG (http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/111469/cat/500)


What Ipad cradle is that? Ram Mount obviously? How are you using the Ipad for OBD II? So much to learn!

Here is what I have done for my Tacoma. The Ram-a-Can - shipped for less than $60 how could I not. The can feels like its filled with cement, the neck seems to be a solid piece of aluminum(watch for fatigue) and it crams down pretty good in the Tacoma cup holder.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i102/danprasil/badelf-1.jpg

[TACODOC]

I like that.

[Airmonger]

Its pretty clean and surprisingly it doesn't get in the way of the center console or the shift knob, even in L.

[TACODOC]

That's key. And it is easily removed or hidden when needed, or transferred to another vehicle ;)

[Spicy McHaggis]

Quick question - are the maps stored locally on the iPad, or do you have to have internet access for the maps to continuously update on it?

I'm guessing the maps are stored on the iPad, because those without 3G (like me) wouldn't be able to use the darn thing!

[Airmonger]

Quick question - are the maps stored locally on the iPad, or do you have to have internet access for the maps to continuously update on it?

On the App, Topo maps for Ipad they are stored on the drive for use whenever you need them. You can only download 20 quadrants at a time so it takes a while to get everything you need.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i102/danprasil/DSC00013.jpg

The green area highlights the maps downloaded

Can you toggle them on/off? Its hard to see the whole area with the maps highlighted.

Has anyone figured out if you can download a whole state or area at a time other than the 20 quads at once?

[DavidG]

My buddy has this app on his ipad: http://www.motionx.com/

Played with it a bit and it looks really good. He has the GPS HD. You can look a topos, street maps, satellite maps and more. It has lots of cool features.

MotionX is excellent on the iPhone. I can only imagine it would be outstanding on the iPad. Coupled with a jailbreak-connected external BT (SiRF III or better chipset) GPS receiver it would really be nice...as long as the app recognizes it.

[benedmonson]

MotionX is excellent on the iPhone. I can only imagine it would be outstanding on the iPad. Coupled with a jailbreak-connected external BT (SiRF III or better chipset) GPS receiver it would really be nice...as long as the app recognizes it.

This is a post that I just made in the GPS Hardware Section:

Yesterday I drove from Ridgway to SLC using my iPad wifi only and new Bad Elf GPS. My software of choice was Motion X Drive the iPhone version as you cannot download the new sweet iPad version unless you you have the iPad 3G version??
The setup was easy, but found out right off the bat that you will have to have an active hot spot in the vehicle to get anything more than the most basic map. Once I activated my Verizon Hot Spot the Motion X software came to life and the message on my screen about no live maps available disappeared.
The iUI was fun to play with along the route and well thought out, but the ipod section to play your music thru works only in portrait mode and we couldn't select our playlist so we had to play one song at a time.
Now for the Bad-Elf part of the deal! Over the period of 6-7 hours the software told me that my iPhone had lost its GPS signal and to make sure that the GPS had a clear view of the sky. Our iPad was installed on the windshield with our new Ram Mount and had a clear unobstructed view of the sky, or as much as it was ever going to have. This would happen every 5-10 minutes and got to be very annoying! I couldn't figure if this was the GPS or the software having a problem or both?
The other thing that I noticed about the Bad-Elf was with the charger. If you have ever seen the little GPS device you will notice that the with it connected to your iPad thru the 30 pin connecter you only have a very small mini usb port available to charge your iPad. The small mini usb port is located on the bottom of the Bad-Elf and at best provides a loose connection for charging. Combine the loose connection with normal driving and it is a challenge to keep juice in you iPad. Upon arriving in SLC we noticed that we were down to 57% power, but the charger had been plugged into the Bad-Elf all day???
So after the first day of use in a real world driving situation I would say not very happy with the Bad-Elf.

[1leglance]

HA see you should have stayed with the Acer and lived in PC land :)
Just giving you a hard time Ben, I know you guys are on the bleeding edge here and that can cause real hassle as you test products, buy/return and try to find the right combo...
trust me even us PC guys are watching this

[tdesanto]

HA see you should have stayed with the Acer and lived in PC land :)

I tried to tell him the same thing. ;)


trust me even us PC guys are watching this

This is very true.

[off-roader]

trust me even us PC guys are watching this
Sure are...

[teebes]

This is a post that I just made in the GPS Hardware Section:

Yesterday I drove from Ridgway to SLC using my iPad wifi only and new Bad Elf GPS. My software of choice was Motion X Drive the iPhone version as you cannot download the new sweet iPad version unless you you have the iPad 3G version??
The setup was easy, but found out right off the bat that you will have to have an active hot spot in the vehicle to get anything more than the most basic map. Once I activated my Verizon Hot Spot the Motion X software came to life and the message on my screen about no live maps available disappeared.
The iUI was fun to play with along the route and well thought out, but the ipod section to play your music thru works only in portrait mode and we couldn't select our playlist so we had to play one song at a time.
Now for the Bad-Elf part of the deal! Over the period of 6-7 hours the software told me that my iPhone had lost its GPS signal and to make sure that the GPS had a clear view of the sky. Our iPad was installed on the windshield with our new Ram Mount and had a clear unobstructed view of the sky, or as much as it was ever going to have. This would happen every 5-10 minutes and got to be very annoying! I couldn't figure if this was the GPS or the software having a problem or both?
The other thing that I noticed about the Bad-Elf was with the charger. If you have ever seen the little GPS device you will notice that the with it connected to your iPad thru the 30 pin connecter you only have a very small mini usb port available to charge your iPad. The small mini usb port is located on the bottom of the Bad-Elf and at best provides a loose connection for charging. Combine the loose connection with normal driving and it is a challenge to keep juice in you iPad. Upon arriving in SLC we noticed that we were down to 57% power, but the charger had been plugged into the Bad-Elf all day???
So after the first day of use in a real world driving situation I would say not very happy with the Bad-Elf.

It sounds like you have on of the new Verizon Ipads, which are only wifi units (which do not have a GPS chip). I really wish Apple had done better marketing between the various versions of the devices.

The '3g' model, available on AT&T service, contains an actual GPS chip that does not require cell service and perform perfectly fine, even far, far away from towers.

[teebes]

This is a post that I just made in the GPS Hardware Section:

Yesterday I drove from Ridgway to SLC using my iPad wifi only and new Bad Elf GPS. My software of choice was Motion X Drive the iPhone version as you cannot download the new sweet iPad version unless you you have the iPad 3G version??
The setup was easy, but found out right off the bat that you will have to have an active hot spot in the vehicle to get anything more than the most basic map. Once I activated my Verizon Hot Spot the Motion X software came to life and the message on my screen about no live maps available disappeared.
The iUI was fun to play with along the route and well thought out, but the ipod section to play your music thru works only in portrait mode and we couldn't select our playlist so we had to play one song at a time.
Now for the Bad-Elf part of the deal! Over the period of 6-7 hours the software told me that my iPhone had lost its GPS signal and to make sure that the GPS had a clear view of the sky. Our iPad was installed on the windshield with our new Ram Mount and had a clear unobstructed view of the sky, or as much as it was ever going to have. This would happen every 5-10 minutes and got to be very annoying! I couldn't figure if this was the GPS or the software having a problem or both?
The other thing that I noticed about the Bad-Elf was with the charger. If you have ever seen the little GPS device you will notice that the with it connected to your iPad thru the 30 pin connecter you only have a very small mini usb port available to charge your iPad. The small mini usb port is located on the bottom of the Bad-Elf and at best provides a loose connection for charging. Combine the loose connection with normal driving and it is a challenge to keep juice in you iPad. Upon arriving in SLC we noticed that we were down to 57% power, but the charger had been plugged into the Bad-Elf all day???
So after the first day of use in a real world driving situation I would say not very happy with the Bad-Elf.

Are you running the latest IOS update on your iPad? I would reach out to the bad-elf folks as something doesn't sound right. As a use of the integrated GPS, I haven't faced these types of issues.

Some folks on the bad-elf forum chatting about the various 30-pin cable types, too. If it wasn't charging correctly, it was more than likely not able to transmit data properly, either. Good luck!

[jrose609]

My boss handed me a 64GB, 3G Ipad earlier today for a Christmas gift. I know very little about these things. Looking forward to reading more about the navigation ideas. Those mounts in the Tacomas look great.

Dang! Good for you! I like your boss.........

[wesel123]

My boss handed me a 64GB, 3G Ipad earlier today for a Christmas gift. I know very little about these things. Looking forward to reading more about the navigation ideas. Those mounts in the Tacomas look great.

Is he hiring?????? Please.......................

[greg mgm]

Hijack.....do you mind saying what your job is?
Great boss and great job? Does that really exist??



Yep, one of the nicest people on Earth.
LOL! A great boss + a great job = no hiring because nobody ever leaves.

Now, how the heck do I navigate with this IPAD thing?

Keep the ideas coming.

:lurk:

[Chris]

Man! I was waiting to hear the answer to that last question?? :sombrero:

[greg mgm]

I won't answer the question publicly, but he has a GREAT (dream) job!

[off-roader]

So any more updates on the BE GPS? I hope we've been able to figure out why it didn't work reliably... Otherwise Ill just jailbreak my Ipad and use a BT GPS I guess w/ my newly received RAMM ipad car mount.:ylsmoke:

[sk8rdi16]

This is all great information! I just got in and installed the Ram Mount in my 80 Series.

Hey Ben, Would you mind posing up some photos of the iPad Ram Mount in the 80. Which mount did you go with and how did you mount it?
Thanks!!

[off-roader]

So any more updates on the BE GPS? I hope we've been able to figure out why it didn't work reliably... Otherwise Ill just jailbreak my Ipad and use a BT GPS I guess w/ my newly received RAMM ipad car mount.:ylsmoke:

Or maybe I won't need to... seems there's a new bluetooth gps compatible with ipads, ipod touch's, iphone's, etc. being offered by Dual...
Discussion thread here... http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=818257#post818257
Dual website page here...
http://gps.dualav.com/
PDF on this gps here...
http://www.gps.dualav.com/pdfs/xgps150.pdf

Hmmm... just noticed it doesn't indicate if it's a sirfstar III chipset or not.

[Schattenjager]

Today I decided I wanted the iPad to go with me on my longer Alaskan trips. Using the Otterbox Defender, I was a little sad at the scant offerings for vehicle mounting while using this awesome case. Then, while searching around Ram Mount's web site - I found THIS (http://www.ram-mount.com/NewProducts/tabtiteipadmount/tabid/3617/Default.aspx). Will work with all the Ram mounting systems!

Seems like a perfect solution. The careful observer will notice the Photoshopped in silver bar on the side of the Defender case that Ram is using as a model. Guess the lawyers are into everything. Anyway, thought it was pretty neat and only came out yesterday!

http://www.ram-mount.com/Portals/0/Skins/NationalProducts/images/1ipad6.jpg

[Awkragt]

I'm probably going to be picking up an IPad 2 Friday. How much storage space does that topo maps program need to download say a whole state like WA?

Also what is the best/cheapest non-jailbreak GPS available if I get the wifi only version?

[off-roader]

I'm probably going to be picking up an IPad 2 Friday. How much storage space does that topo maps program need to download say a whole state like WA?

Also what is the best/cheapest non-jailbreak GPS available if I get the wifi only version?

The amount required to store an entire state's map depends on the resolution & data format being used by the app, but I don't know exact figures.

As for the best/cheapest non-jailbreak gps, there are only 3 that I know of but hopefully, there are others I'm not aware of...
- There's the Dual Bluetooth GPS (very new, no known unbiased reviews yet), not sure the price, nor the quality of their support. They didn't respond to my request for information so I'm doubtful on the quality.
- Then there's the Bad Elf GPS. Ben Edmondson (sp?) had one and the last I recall had mixed feelings on the unit's abilities based on his first use (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=768875&postcount=25). Maybe he can update us on that?
- Then there's the GNS 5870 MFI Bluetooth GPS Receiver which someone said they purchased but I haven't seen any updates on it's effectiveness in the field.

HTH.

[Awkragt]

The amount required to store an entire state's map depends on the resolution & data format being used by the app, but I don't know exact figures.

As for the best/cheapest non-jailbreak gps, there are only 3 that I know of but hopefully, there are others I'm not aware of...
- There's the Dual Bluetooth GPS (very new, no known unbiased reviews yet), not sure the price, nor the quality of their support. They didn't respond to my request for information so I'm doubtful on the quality.
- Then there's the Bad Elf GPS. Ben Edmondson (sp?) had one and the last I recall had mixed feelings on the unit's abilities based on his first use (http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=768875&postcount=25). Maybe he can update us on that?
- Then there's the GNS 5870 MFI Bluetooth GPS Receiver which someone said they purchased but I haven't seen any updates on it's effectiveness in the field.

HTH.

Thanks. Its about time for a sticky that's got the basics. The number of ipad threads is hard to sort through.

[redbeard]

Here's some numbers to give you a ballpark idea.

The Nat Geo set for Colorado is on 7 CD's - and I think it can fit on 1 DVD. So 4-8 Gigs. They are compressed and not super hight resolution.

The original geotiff files I think run about 13 Gigs (again, for colorado).

I asked about the mapbox product earlier, as you can load your own maps (using their tools to create it).

I may try to create a statewide topo set to see how big it gets. Of course, for that product it also depends on the number of zoom levels.

More info is at mapbox.com. I'm not affiliated with them. They didnt respond to an email asking for some info. I don't have an iPad so I can't test it.

[off-roader]

Yeah, similarly for california, the Nat Geo set is on 8 CD's. I've put it onto a single 8 GB SD card which I use in my onboard Navigation laptop. it's too bad Nat Geo doesn't make software that can use the same data CD's on my Ipad.