80 axle question

[upcruiser]

I'm looking to purchase a complete used front axle for my '92 FJ80. I found a company that sells used cruiser bits (thanks to the advice of this forum) that has both locked and unlocked axles in stock. $1,000 for an unlocked and $1,250 for one with a locker. My question is this, is there any reason why I couldn't throw in a locked front, drive it without the locker hooked up untill the time and date I could spring for the price of a full floater rear with locker? I don't see why I couldn't and from the research I've done, stock gearing is the same across the various model years and the front axles are interchangable between the FJ's and FZJ's. Lockers aren't CRITICAL for what I use the truck for, but definately would be nice down the road. What do you guys think?

[ChuckB]

I'm sure that its probably do-able. I think its just a wiring issue. If you haven't already done so, I would check 'mud.

[cruiseroutfit]

Not only can you do it... you can also run the front locker before you buy the rear FF... the wiring is pretty straightforward. $1250 is a fair price if your buying from a shop... if you scour the used market you can find a set of locked axles in that price range.

[upcruiser]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I might be able to find one cheaper, but these come with warantees so that makes it pretty nice. I was always under the impression that if you are getting into traction limited environments, you wanted to lock the rear first, then, if needed the front. I haven't heard of anyone locking front but not rear. Is that safe to do?

[cruiseroutfit]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I might be able to find one cheaper, but these come with warantees so that makes it pretty nice. I was always under the impression that if you are getting into traction limited environments, you wanted to lock the rear first, then, if needed the front. I haven't heard of anyone locking front but not rear. Is that safe to do?

Well its sound judgement to use the rear first... but thats not to say you can't use your front if you have one... The front it typically a weaker unit than a rear, especially when your tires are turned (birfs lose alot of their strenght in the off center positions). It will also make steering a bit hard (only when engaged), so use accordingly.

That said I would wire it up... it might make the difference of stuck or not...

[njtaco]

My 2 cents...from a Tacoma driver :truck:

Running a warranted locker with out wiring it "until I get a rear locker" negates a good part of why you purchased one with a warranty to begin with, doesn't it? The least you would do (IMHO) for peace of mind is do the complete wiring job for both front and rear, and use the front prudently from time to time. This way you will be ready for the FF, locked rear whenever you get to it.

On another note, *** edited, did not apply here***


I don't know the 80's very well, so I'll also ask: What is the difference between your current rear axle and the one you want? I know what FF means, so can I assume yours isn't a FF design? Obviously, the locker, too. Thanks for humoring me ;)

[upcruiser]

Ok, well that makes sense about using it sparingly. I just didn't want to create any weird stress on my drivetrain. I've never had lockers on any of my trucks so I'm a newb in that regard.

NJ, the FJ80's have a semi floater rear axle, pretty much the same as the FJ 62's outside of the spring perch mounts. To upgrade to a FF'er I have to also go with rear disc brakes and 16" wheels, though I think I would likely jusy try grinding the calipers to accomodate 15's since I have two set of them.

[Grim Reaper]

Wow thats up there. Maybe I am ignorant about 80's but can you not modify the housing? On my 86 4Runner I am about to put a Taco e-locker in it in a week. Not hard at all to modify.

You can pick up TRD lockers for 300-500 all day long used for the Tacos. You can buy them factory new for $900 http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/index.php?cPath=25
They also sell kits to wire them.
You might even get them cheaper at the dealer. I hear you can get a discount at some Toyota dealers with the TORRA discount. www.tacomaterritory.com do some searching.


Bottom line is as long as it has not been messed with and not showing rust you should be ok.

Places you can find used.
www.tacomaterritory.com
www.pirate4x4.com/forum
http://www.ih8mud.com/

[Boston Mangler]

Kristian

Its all about what you use the rig for man.

I retrofitted elockers into my 80 here: (front writeup coming soon) http://www.yankeetoys.org/mangler/elockerinstall.htm

I have retrofitted and fabbed in 2 elockers into non-elocker housings. Its a pain, but doable. The front locker mechanism is completely different then the rear, so getting a custom or non us shaft isnt an issue in the front, you can use the non locker shaft with the locker, etc.... The issue with this is the limited gasket surface and potential for leaks if not done 100% perfectly!

I suggest just waiting and finding the proper housing and buying a complete locked front end if you must get a locker.

Again, it all depends what you use your rig for.

Me, i use my rig for everything from fire roads to somewhat gnarly trails.

With a decent suspension and some nice aired down tires, there is almost zero need for a front locker on an 80! That is my opinion of course. I have put my rig through some gnarly stuff and have only engaged my front locker once or twice and that was just to see if it worked. Personally, i prefer to push my rig and my driving skills to the limit in stock form and see what it/I can do instead of push a button and point and shoot! :D

If your plan is just to wheel the rig and do moderate stuff, the front elocker isnt needed. If you plan on more serious stuff, it might be a good idea. But if you are wheeling serious stuff and need a front locker, you will probably want stronger axle shafts, etc..... The front locker does put a ton of stress on the related parts.

I didnt answer your question really, but what i am trying to say is that if you find a good deal on a NON Locker front end, i wouldnt hesitate jumping on it.

Also, check with the brake compatibility. I think the 93+ front ends use differnt calipers and ABS and such, make sure that all meshes with the older stuff.

:PROFSheriffHL:

[Boston Mangler]

Maybe I am ignorant about 80's but can you not modify the housing?

Yes, pretty easily i might add! :D


On my 86 4Runner I am about to put a Taco e-locker in it in a week. Not hard at all to modify.

The front end of an 80 requires almost the exact same mods as a rear of your runner minus the custom shaft to install an elocker

[upcruiser]

I should clarify, I am indeed looking for a complete front. I have no reusable parts on my font axle as it sits (birfs, inner axles, 3rd member, seals, bearings, etc are all toast) so it is going to be waaay more economical to buy a complete.

I do take the truck into some pretty hairy stuff, but my goal is setting it up for longer trips with more mild type wheeling then rock crawling activities. I've been pretty impressed by how the rig does totally open from my past outings. I guess my issue is whether springing for the extra $250 is something I should do (which the major downside is that it is setting me up for a rear axle swap $$).

I've got some time still, because I'm not planning on doing this swap till April.

[Boston Mangler]

I should clarify, I am indeed looking for a complete front. I have no reusable parts on my font axle as it sits (birfs, inner axles, 3rd member, seals, bearings, etc are all toast) so it is going to be waaay more economical to buy a complete.

Gotcha!


I guess my issue is whether springing for the extra $250 is something I should do (which the major downside is that it is setting me up for a rear axle swap $$).

That would be your call. One other thing to take into consideration is that if you use the OEM wiring setup and brain like i did, you can NOT use only the front locker. The settings are either REAR ONLY or FRONT AND REAR, no FRONT ONLY options. Obviosly there are ways around this, but it might be quite involved if you want to use front locker only with factory wiring.

And yes, since your REAR current axle is of the Drum Brake Semi-Float flavor, you would need to swap the entire thing out completely because the elocker can not be installed into a semi float housing.

Also, the pre 93 80's do NOT have ANY of the wiring for the elockers, so my writeup would not apply to your application!

Hit me up with any questions!

Thanks

[Grim Reaper]

Yes, pretty easily i might add! :D



The front end of an 80 requires almost the exact same mods as a rear of your runner minus the custom shaft to install an elocker

No custom axle shafts needed. Might have to drill the pinion flange I hear to hook it to my shaft or swap it with one from Marlin or inchworm. Haven't measured mine yet to see what way I need to go.

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/electric_locker/

[cruiseroutfit]

No custom axle shafts needed. Might have to drill the pinion flange I hear to hook it to my shaft or swap it with one from Marlin or inchworm. Haven't measured mine yet to see what way I need to go.

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/electric_locker/

I think thats what Boston was saying... no axle shaft needed for the front... the rear LC axle DOES require a custom or OE E-locker shaft (long splined).

Just to toss another consideration into the mix... if you do plan to really wheel the 80 HARD, the E-lockers have their proven downfalls versus that of an ARB, etc.

[Boston Mangler]

I think thats what Boston was saying... no axle shaft needed for the front... the rear LC axle DOES require a custom or OE E-locker shaft (long splined).

Bingo, yes, that is what i was saying!


Might have to drill the pinion flange I hear to hook it to my shaft or swap it with one from Marlin or inchworm.

Be super careful doing that, loosening that nut might throw your pinion gear depth out of whack. In theory it shouldnt happen, but it does happen and can potentially have catastrophic results! Keep an eye on it! Kurt from Cruiseroutfitters can probably elaborate on that!

[upcruiser]

Kurt, for my application, the elockers will be fine. I'm just looking for more piece of mind to keep me out of trouble. Its not really that I'm going to be doing anything super tough with them, but more insurance for me since most of the stuff I do is solo. ARB's would likely be more $ total when all is said and done but I bet when all the things like brake conversions 2 axles swapped, harnesses, wiring, etc, it probably will be pretty close.

Mangler, yeah, I think I will probably pick your brain when I get closer to pulling the trigger on this and doing the work.

[cruiseroutfit]

Kurt, for my application, the elockers will be fine. I'm just looking for more piece of mind to keep me out of trouble. Its not really that I'm going to be doing anything super tough with them, but more insurance for me since most of the stuff I do is solo. ARB's would likely be more $ total when all is said and done but I bet when all the things like brake conversions 2 axles swapped, harnesses, wiring, etc, it probably will be pretty close....

It will likely be close indeed...

Say your $2000 for the two USED axled (I'm assuming $1250 for the front, $750 for the rear). You still want to service the axles (knuckles, bearings, etc) so add another ~$350. Add another $100 for the wiring/switches (likely cost more) So assuming your doing all the labor, your at ~$2550.

ARB's:
Lockers: $1500 (shipped)
Compressor: $175 (small)
Install Parts: $140 (assuming carrier bearings only), $250 for full kits
ARB Carrier Install: $350-450 if you pull 3rds.
Knuckle service parts: $350
$2550

[upcruiser]

Wow, those numbers look good for the ARB. I'd prefer to go that route since I'd be getting onboard air along with the locker goods. I haven't priced ARB's in awhile, but I could have sworn that it was about $500 more with respect to parts the last time I checked. Yeah, I think I'm going to go without the front locker and maybe go for the ARB coversion at a later date.

Thanks for all the help.

[cruiseroutfit]

Wow, those numbers look good for the ARB ...I haven't priced ARB's in awhile...

You just have to know where to shop ;)

Glad I could help! :cool: