Which is better for expedition camper U1300L or U1000L?

[Jolly Roger]

Hi all

In my quest for an expedition vehicle, one of my choices is purchasing a used Unimog and having a camper built for it. There are a couple of used Unimogs for sale in my local area . . . a 1985 U1300L and a 1999 U1000L.

I'm hoping someone could tell me which would be the better platform for a camper and why?

I have another posting on this forum detailing my requirements in a bit more detail:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47158

I don't know a whole lot about the Unimogs so any advice would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

[Jolly Roger]

Sorry for any confusion its a U100L not a U1000L.

Cheers

[Victorian]

The U100 has less power and load capacity, not sure how much but certainly less than the 1300. If possible, try and get a 1300 even better with the 170HP engine! The 130hp version is a pig.... I have driven them in the military for years and was always amazed how gutless the non-turbo version was.

Cheers,
Andreas

[boroburner]

You arent going to buy my 1300 are you???? lol

[Jolly Roger]

You arent going to buy my 1300 are you???? lol

My problem is that I don't know what to buy????? Somewhere out there is the perfect vehicle for my trip . . . I just don't know what it is yet.

[Victorian]

Without sounding like an snob I would always choose an Unimog over ANY North American brand. Drive one, compare them and you will see.

[Jolly Roger]

The U100 has less power and load capacity, not sure how much but certainly less than the 1300. If possible, try and get a 1300 even better with the 170HP engine! The 130hp version is a pig.... I have driven them in the military for years and was always amazed how gutless the non-turbo version was.

So you think the U100 would be too underpowered to carry a small camper? I like the fact that it would probably be more comfortable on the highway than something like the U1300, although perhaps not quite as capable offroad. Any U100 owners out there who could offer any comments???

[Victorian]

I just got my Unimog spec book out...

U100 92HP ,5 gears, 2.3 tons of load capacity, shorter and more narrow, smaller tires (cheaper!)

U1300 136HP (no turbo), 8 gears, close to 4 tons load capacity


Just keep in mind that non of the Unimogs are racing cars... You will have to change gear every 10km/h till you reach 80km/h! That is a lot of gear changes at the end of the day and can get tiring in city traffic.

[Jolly Roger]

Thanks Andreas, that's all good information to know.

Cheers

[rhodos]

what typ exactly ? - U100L aka 408, not a bad choice for a camper - modern technic, light, big enough for a camper - if i had to decide between a 408 and a 1300 i guess i would go for the 408.

check all tecnical data at:

http://www.daimler.com/Projects/c2c/channel/images/6787_9660_-1_-1_20399.pdf

In the German UNIMURR forum (http://www.unimurr.de/forum-unimurr/wbblite/index.php) is a guy (Tom Held) who is building a camper on base of an U100L, if you are interested contact him, or mail/pm me for his email.

hth, Werner

[Iain_U1250]

The main advantage of the U100 over the U1300 is that it is faster in standard trim - it should be able to do 100kph on the flat. A U1300 will need "fast axles" or an overdrive able to reach 100kph. If you add a high camper back to it - then you will need to up the engine power a bit - add a turbo and intercooler to the U1300 an it should be able to drive at 100kph. I'm not sure what you would do to the U100L - but since the engine is the same as the Sprinters - there should be some tweaks you can get to get a bit more power.


If you are looking for a smaller Unimog, try a U1250 like mine - they are a bit lighter, a bit narrower then the U1300 yet have a 124hp turbo engine that can be tweaked up to around 160hp with an intercooler and fuel pump adjustment - they will definitely need fast axles and an overdrive - in standard form their max speed is 78kph. U1300's are more common - plenty of ex-military trucks in Europe.

The U110L/U140L range is another option - but they were meant for municipal use as tractor/ implement carriers, they have a bit more power.
I think all the U100-U140's are fugly, especially the asymmetric nose ones that are most common - the bigger SBU are much nicer.

In the end it depends on your own personal needs - work out how much stuff you want to carry, how much fuel and water you need, and whether you plan to be able to live in, or just sleep in the back. In my own truck I'm going to need all of the 3 ton capacity.

[Jolly Roger]

Hi Werner

Thanks very much for the links and the spec sheet, both will be very helpful!

Cheers

[Jolly Roger]

In the end it depends on your own personal needs - work out how much stuff you want to carry, how much fuel and water you need, and whether you plan to be able to live in, or just sleep in the back. In my own truck I'm going to need all of the 3 ton capacity.

Hi Iain

Thanks for all of the info. We're still in the process of trying to figure out what we'll need and how much it will all weigh. Not an easy task for a newbie. Ideally, we'd like something that we can live in as we hope to be on the road for quite a few years. I also hope to be able to work on the road (all I need is a laptop), so having a bit of space to do that would be important. We're going to look at the1300L this weekend so at least after seeing that in person we'll have a better idea of what they are like. At the moment, all I have to go on is what I've seen and read on the internet.

Cheers

[Tmax]

the U100L you are looking at is a turbo model and is actually quite fast. unless you are looking for big cargo capacity, it's a much better choice than a ex millitary 1300L. a/c and leather go a long way too.

[Jolly Roger]

I had a look and a test ride in it last night and it looked great. Our idea is to have a custom camper box constructed for the back. Even with the turbo, do you think it would have enough grunt to haul a decent sized box around with all the accoutrements and supplies inside? I agree that the seats and AC would make a big difference.

[charlieaarons]

2 main concerns in my mind, in addition to comfort and top speed:
1) load capacity - campers tend to weigh more than planed, and continue to gain weight as one adds stuff
2) availability of low working gears. Ex-military U1300s sometimes did NOT come with "working gears" and just had the 8 spd with 13:1 1st gear, ~69:1 total reduction. Very borderline for creeping over rough ground with a heavy unwieldy load. Adding the 5.76 working gears can require transmission removal and dis-assembly to install a longer shaft = expensive and difficult.
The ultimate low "crawler gears" 55.7:1 aren't needed and I only have thm on my U500 because I ordered it new and I can match the wheel speed to winch speed with them.
AKAIK all U100s have some kind of low range, although road gears aren't particularly slow even in 1st.

Charlie

[oonimog]

Incendo,
The U100L you're considering is a nice truck and the owner, Greg, is a good guy. In standard form, the U100L is a bit more modern and comfortable than the standard U1300L but leather seats and A/C are easy additions. The U100L is quieter than the U1300L and far more like a US pickup. It's smaller so it's easier to manoeuver, will consume less fuel, pollute less (Euro II emissions), and will be less expensive when it comes time for tires (typically much sooner than you might expect as they don't last on the big trucks). The trade off is that it's not quite as good off road as it's bigger cousin due to the lack of a really low crawling gearbox and less ground clearance. Unless you really plan to push it, this may never be a problem. Also depending on where you plan to take it, the U100L engine is managed electronically, the U1300L's is all mechanical and the OM352/352A engines are one of the most common and robust diesels in the world.

Another thing to consider is that until you have the camper body on it, you'll need to stop at the scales with the U1300L but not the U100L as unladen it's 5500kgs. Both trucks have air over hydraulic brakes so you'll need an air endorsement on your DL. As Charlie mentioned, weight adds up quickly and you should stay well below the max GVW for off road use or you'll be breaking and repairing things often. If you can live with the lower GVW, the smaller truck may be the more sensible option. I like the U100L but prefer my U1300L37 for my needs.

If you do decide to go for the U100L, the original fiberglass camper body that was built for that specific truck is still floating around. In fact, I believe a member of this forum mhiscox (Mike Hiscox) owns (or owned) it and may be able to help you to reunite the two...

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/plembesis/Dsc00360.jpg
That's Greg's truck in the picture

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/plembesis/cabin2001.jpg

[Victorian]

Nice looking camper! Any pics of the inside?

[oonimog]

Unfortunately, there's not much to see inside as it was unfinished.

[Jolly Roger]

2 main concerns in my mind, in addition to comfort and top speed:
1) load capacity - campers tend to weigh more than planed, and continue to gain weight as one adds stuff
2) availability of low working gears. Ex-military U1300s sometimes did NOT come with "working gears" and just had the 8 spd with 13:1 1st gear, ~69:1 total reduction. Very borderline for creeping over rough ground with a heavy unwieldy load. Adding the 5.76 working gears can require transmission removal and dis-assembly to install a longer shaft = expensive and difficult.
The ultimate low "crawler gears" 55.7:1 aren't needed and I only have thm on my U500 because I ordered it new and I can match the wheel speed to winch speed with them.
AKAIK all U100s have some kind of low range, although road gears aren't particularly slow even in 1st.

Charlie

Hi Charlie

Thanks for the info. I went to see a U1300L yesterday and thought it was quite a nice machine. It was a little louder than the U100 during the test ride but seemed to perform well when carrying a heavy camper box, even up a steep embankment. Although it only has the 8 gears, it seemed like a VERY capable vehicle and I hope I would not find myself in too many situations where I needed more than that to extricate myself from a problem. I would LOVE a set-up like yours (U500 & Unicat Camper) but sadly my budget wont's stretch to it. However, I currently have my wife up for sale on Ebay so if I get a decent bid on her I may be in the market for a new U500!

Cheers

[Jolly Roger]

[QUOTE=oonimog;681958]Incendo,
The U100L you're considering is a nice truck and the owner, Greg, is a good guy. In standard form, the U100L is a bit more modern and comfortable than the standard U1300L but leather seats and A/C are easy additions. The U100L is quieter than the U1300L and far more like a US pickup. It's smaller so it's easier to manoeuver, will consume less fuel, pollute less (Euro II emissions), and will be less expensive when it comes time for tires (typically much sooner than you might expect as they don't last on the big trucks). The trade off is that it's not quite as good off road as it's bigger cousin due to the lack of a really low crawling gearbox and less ground clearance. Unless you really plan to push it, this may never be a problem. Also depending on where you plan to take it, the U100L engine is managed electronically, the U1300L's is all mechanical and the OM352/352A engines are one of the most common and robust diesels in the world.

Another thing to consider is that until you have the camper body on it, you'll need to stop at the scales with the U1300L but not the U100L as its GVW is 5500kgs. Both trucks have air over hydraulic brakes so you'll need an air endorsement on your DL. As Charlie mentioned, weight adds up quickly and you should stay well below the max GVW for off road use or you'll be breaking and repairing things often. If you can live with the lower GVW, the smaller truck may be the more sensible option. I like the U100L but prefer my U1300L37 for my needs.

If you do decide to go for the U100L, the original fiberglass camper body that was built for that specific truck is still floating around. In fact, I believe a member of this forum mhiscox (Mike Hiscox) owns (or owned) it and may be able to help you to reunite the two...

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/plembesis/Dsc00360.jpg


Yep, the U100 was quieter and more comfortable that the U1300L. However, not by as large of a margin as I would have thought. Also, as you pointed out, A/C and nice leather air-ride seats would make it an even closer contest. The U1300L I saw had an ex-military radio box on the back which must have been quite heavy. Inside it had a fridge, table / bed, shower, sink, water tanks, battery array, toilet, etc. so was carrying a fair bit of weight. In spite of that, it was much livelier than I thought it would be. Although it wouldn't cruise down the hwy at 100 km/hr like the U100, I think it would still be fine.

In terms of off-road performance, I probably won't really know what I'll need until I'm actually out on my trip. However, at this point I'm thinking either vehicle would probably meet my needs. The increased capability of the U1300 is really nice, but then again, the smaller size, comfort and better fuel economy of the U100 is also a draw.

The fiberglass body that used to be on Greg's truck looks very nice and by the way, Greg is a very nice chap. How do you think a fiberglass body would stand up to the rigors on a long multi-year journey as opposed to one of the military radio boxes? It would obviously be much lighter and easier to carry around, but I'm not sure it would be a tough as the radio box. However, that's just my gut feel and not based on any previous experience with either type. Thanks for Mike's info. I'll try and get in touch with him and see if he knows where the body is these days.

Cheers

[oonimog]

I see you're located in Langley (me too), have you checked with Mross in Ft. Langley? Was the truck a turbo? Was the box a radio box or an ambulance? Did it resemble the shape of the yellow one in the photo or was it more square? These are ambulance bodies which are very heavy because they were designed to withstand a rollover at speed. Despite the weight, I really like them but they aren't tall enough to stand in. A friend in Germany increased the height of his (yellow) by adding the center raised section. The box on white 1300 also started as an ambulance and was stretched in length and height (located on Vancouver Island).

I expect the fiberglass body would be no problem as it was specifically built for the Mog. Mogs typically have a separate frame that the load body is mounted to. It uses a 3-point mounting principle to allow the truck frame to flex without stressing the load body.

Regards,
Pete

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/plembesis/128-2835b.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/plembesis/128-2899_IMG.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/plembesis/mog139.jpg

[mhiscox]

Thanks to Pete for discussing my fiberglass shell in my absence. Here's the link to the thread that was up when the shell was for sale:

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27257.

Lots of pictures and information there for anyone who needs it.

[Jolly Roger]

I see you're located in Langley (me too), have you checked with Mross in Ft. Langley? Was the truck a turbo? Was the box a radio box or an ambulance? Did it resemble the shape of the yellow one in the photo or was it more square? These are ambulance bodies which are very heavy because they were designed to withstand a rollover at speed. Despite the weight, I really like them but they aren't tall enough to stand in. A friend in Germany increased the height of his (yellow) by adding the center raised section. The box on white 1300 also started as an ambulance and was stretched in length and height (located on Vancouver Island).

I expect the fiberglass body would be no problem as it was specifically built for the Mog. Mogs typically have a separate frame that the load body is mounted to. It uses a 3-point mounting principle to allow the truck frame to flex without stressing the load body.

Regards,
Pete

Hi Pete

Nice to see someone else on the forum who's in my neck of the woods! I've emailed Mross a couple of times but haven't received replies to any of my messages. I also drove out to their location a few weeks ago but failed to find any sign of life. Consequently, I assumed they had perhaps shut down the business. Are they still going?

The box in question was a square one and the owner informed me it was from a radio truck. It felt VERY solid but I'm sure it was also quite heavy. The Unimog carrying it did not have a turbo engine. It was high enough to stand up in (I'm around 5'9" and had a couple of inches to spare), although if you spent a long time in it (as we plan to do), it may have felt a little claustrophobic. However, as you pointed out with the example photos, it could always be stretched in height and / or length.

Cheers

[Victorian]

I see you're located in Langley (me too), have you checked with Mross in Ft. Langley? Was the truck a turbo? Was the box a radio box or an ambulance? Did it resemble the shape of the yellow one in the photo or was it more square? These are ambulance bodies which are very heavy because they were designed to withstand a rollover at speed. Despite the weight, I really like them but they aren't tall enough to stand in. A friend in Germany increased the height of his (yellow) by adding the center raised section. The box on white 1300 also started as an ambulance and was stretched in length and height (located on Vancouver Island).

I expect the fiberglass body would be no problem as it was specifically built for the Mog. Mogs typically have a separate frame that the load body is mounted to. It uses a 3-point mounting principle to allow the truck frame to flex without stressing the load body.

Regards,
Pete

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/plembesis/128-2835b.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/plembesis/128-2899_IMG.jpg

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/plembesis/mog139.jpg


The white one was based in Victoria, close to Dallas Road... Met the owner and got a tour. Very nice Unimog! As far as I know, they sold their business and are now on a VERY long trip with the camper.

[dzzz]

What's the U100 GVWR? I can't see a 96hp truck move at a decent speed on a highway, much less the interstate.
Is the fiberglass shell on a truck, or are those old pics?
Those are some nice pics. Putting an extension on the radio cab roof was a good idea.
I don't see solar on any of the trucks. That's somewhat surprising.

[Jolly Roger]

What's the U100 GVWR? I can't see a 96hp truck move at a decent speed on a highway, much less the interstate.

Apparently the U100 has been tuned to 160ph.

[Jolly Roger]

Apparently the U100 has been tuned to 160ph.

Sorry, hp not ph

[dzzz]

Sorry, hp not ph

So if it's a 5500kg model it has 2500kg of payload. I expect it would be run somewhat overweight with a camper, even being careful.
The engine upgrade trades some life for hp, but that's probably acceptable if well done.

[rhodos]

A well constructed camper box in 2m by 3m comes with interior to 1000 - 1300 kg. For this you need a good constructed 3 point mounting frame (good constructed means some calculation on the framework and not throwing in steel to make it solid enough), box itself build from 50 mm sandwich panels and the interior from lightweigth plywood.

bye, Werner

[dzzz]

A well constructed camper box in 2m by 3m comes with interior to 1000 - 1300 kg..


I think you would probably want to aim for less than 1000kg with a 2500 kg payload. My 4m alaskan weighs about 1000kg. My total finished wet GVW (with a whole lotta 'wet') is 13,500 to 14,000 kg.
I am clearly not the person to hire to keep a U100L under GVWR. :)

[Tmax]

Hi Pete

Nice to see someone else on the forum who's in my neck of the woods! I've emailed Mross a couple of times but haven't received replies to any of my messages. I also drove out to their location a few weeks ago but failed to find any sign of life. Consequently, I assumed they had perhaps shut down the business. Are they still going?

The box in question was a square one and the owner informed me it was from a radio truck. It felt VERY solid but I'm sure it was also quite heavy. The Unimog carrying it did not have a turbo engine. It was high enough to stand up in (I'm around 5'9" and had a couple of inches to spare), although if you spent a long time in it (as we plan to do), it may have felt a little claustrophobic. However, as you pointed out with the example photos, it could always be stretched in height and / or length.

Cheers

just give hans a call before hand. somtimes hes gone on business.

[Jolly Roger]

just give hans a call before hand. somtimes hes gone on business.

I popped over to see Hans late last week and had a really good chat with him. He had some interesting ideas about a vehicle for our trip and suggested that the Mercedes 1017 truck may be a good option for what we are planning. Seemed a genuinely nice chap and was very helpful.

[Victorian]

I popped over to see Hans late last week and had a really good chat with him. He had some interesting ideas about a vehicle for our trip and suggested that the Mercedes 1017 truck may be a good option for what we are planning. Seemed a genuinely nice chap and was very helpful.

I drove 1017's in the military. Empty. They are gutless. Just saying. But surprisingly good offroad!

[mhiscox]

I popped over to see Hans late last week and had a really good chat with him. He had some interesting ideas about a vehicle for our trip and suggested that the Mercedes 1017 truck may be a good option for what we are planning. Seemed a genuinely nice chap and was very helpful.
As you contemplate this project with a 1017 and Hans Mross, you may want to join the Mog Mailing List--sign up at

http://www.tx4x4.com--

and solicit the members' opinions of your plans. The Moglist contains many of the country's foremost experts on MBz offroad trucks and their capabilities--including those with dozens of years of experience actually using their Mogs--along with the parts suppliers and the mechanical experts. It's an excellent community of very friendly, helpful and well informed people.

[Iain_U1250]

A 170hp 10 ton truck is obviously not going to have the same "guts" as 300hp 3 ton pick-up. If it means you can only drive at 70kph up a hill then so what. The advantages of something like a 1017 or a Unimog is in the gearing, off road ability and the strength of the chassis. My U1250 has the working gears, so low range first has a 52:1 ratio - multiply the 400Nm of torque by 52 = 20,800Nm - that's enough to pull a train - and that's what mine used to do. It is designed to be used at it's full capacity all the time, unlike the smaller FUSO/Canters, or normal 4x4's especially the compromise ones that are one the market now.

Getting back to the OP post - U1300 vs U100L - I guess it depends on whether you want something for an extended stay - months on end, or just for holiday trips. If you like camping and are prepared to live small and use the truck as a place to sleep in, then go for the lighter U100L.

If you want a camper big enough to live in semi-permanently, and must have all the luxuries, then you need a bigger truck like a U500 or a big MAN. If you want something in between - then a U1300L would be a good place to start.

Once you get used to a truck after moving from a car/4x4, then it seems to shrink. My U1250 seemed huge when I first got it, now I look at it and it seems small - especially compared to the U1700/38 and the U500's. I spent a few hour yesterday with a fellow Mogger who is building a U1750/38 DOKA - and that a big truck but with the DOKA, the camper will be the same size as mine.







I drove 1017's in the military. Empty. They are gutless. Just saying. But surprisingly good offroad!

[Jolly Roger]

As you contemplate this project with a 1017 and Hans Mross, you may want to join the Mog Mailing List--sign up at

http://www.tx4x4.com--

and solicit the members' opinions of your plans. The Moglist contains many of the country's foremost experts on MBz offroad trucks and their capabilities--including those with dozens of years of experience actually using their Mogs--along with the parts suppliers and the mechanical experts. It's an excellent community of very friendly, helpful and well informed people.

Hi Mike

Well, I've still got a long way to go in determining which vehicle is correct for us. However, I think I can probably rule out the U100 as I think it may be a little too limiting for what we want. We want a reasonable sized living area as we'll hopefully be on the road for quite a few years. From what I've gathered, the U100 may not be up to the task of carrying a heavy camper as well as some of the other models. Thanks for the tip on the Mog Mailing list, I'll sign-up for sure.

Cheers
Simon

[Jolly Roger]

I drove 1017's in the military. Empty. They are gutless. Just saying. But surprisingly good offroad!

Would you be able to expand a little on what you mean buy "gutless"? Are you thinking in terms of the type of comparison that Iain mentioned, or did you have something else in mind? As you were a former driver of the 1017's, I'd be interested in hearing more of your feedback.

Cheers
Simon

[Jolly Roger]

If you want a camper big enough to live in semi-permanently, and must have all the luxuries, then you need a bigger truck like a U500 or a big MAN. If you want something in between - then a U1300L would be a good place to start.

Hi Iain

You make some valid points. We are looking for something to live in semi-permanently but at the same time, we don't need ALL of the luxuries. Some of the large Unicats with all the bells and whistles look wonderful but are sadly out of our price range. Something smaller which still has the basics (berth, kitchen, toilet shower, spare room for the Parisian hookers, etc.) would be all we need.

Cheers

[Victorian]

Would you be able to expand a little on what you mean buy "gutless"? Are you thinking in terms of the type of comparison that Iain mentioned, or did you have something else in mind? As you were a former driver of the 1017's, I'd be interested in hearing more of your feedback.

Cheers
Simon

Even though, the U1300L shares the same engine as the MB1017, it feels way different. You will shift a lot, especially uphill. That is not much different from the Unimog, but I would expect something else from a semi truck. I'm talking about shifting down to second and rev. it up to the limiter. It will feel like the pistons will come flying past you at any moment. And again, this was with an empty truck.
I don't know, if they can be tuned, fitted with faster axles and such. But i would not want to drive on fresh from the army.

Cheers,
Andreas

[Joe]

Hi there,

do you have in the "new world" Steyr trucks? It is a more modern style truck as the 1017A or 1217A (as I have it).

Benefits of the 12M80 compared to the Mercedes:
- standard 240 HP (instead of 169 HP standard - increase possible, 200 HP no prob)
- 8 gears (instead of the aweful 5 gears of Mercedes which are much too far away in between)
- all locks (Mercedes with front differential lock more or less not available)
- 14:00 tires possible (front axle as far as I know too weak)
- although more modern still no electronics - a simple piece of metall and you can repair nearly everything

Downsides as far as I am aware:
- Spare parts not as easily available as for a Mercedes
- some (or most of them???) spare parts are extremely expensive (claim from an owner of a 12M80 - pls. don't ask me which ones he named in particular).

[mhiscox]

Hi there,

do you have in the "new world" Steyr trucks? It is a more modern style truck as the 1017A or 1217A (as I have it).
I know you didn't mean to make us feel bad, Joe. ;)

Nope, that's another one of a pretty large number of expedition-capable chassis we don't have imported into the U.S. or Canada. The Fuso FG is the only recent 4x4 cabover truck available to us.

[Joe]

I know you didn't mean to make us feel bad, Joe.
:iagree:

[rhodos]

Nope, that's another one of a pretty large number of expedition-capable chassis we don't have imported into the U.S. or Canada. The Fuso FG is the only recent 4x4 cabover truck available to us.

Sorry Mike but here i have to disagree - the Steyr 12M18 was build with little mods (Allison automatic trans, not sure about the engine) for the US military (new Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles) and according to a friend who has driven it its a great truck.

http://www.army.mil/-images/2007/05/11/4873/index.html

http://www.army.mil/-images/2007/05/11/4874/army.mil-2007-05-17-110512.jpg

bye, Werner

[mhiscox]

Sorry Mike but here i have to disagree - the Steyr 12M18 was build with little mods (Allison automatic trans, not sure about the engine) for the US military (new Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles).
Werner's right, of course, but I get to defend myself by pointing out that, as best I know, all the U.S. Steyr's were actually built south of Houston under license to Stewart and Stevenson, so they technically weren't imported.

My other out might have been to claim that they aren't available for private use, which they generally aren't. However, the funny thing is that my Sprinter conversion was being done at the same time as one of the SSSS trucks was being worked on:

http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp283/mhiscox01/HBBExtDS.jpg

and it's still up on the website at Creative Mobile Interiors:

http://creativemobileinteriors.com/sections/sale/BadBoy/BadBoyindex.asp.

We had a thread on the medium FMTV a year and a half ago:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=356358

and the truck got a lot of positive comments. Anyone know whether these FMTVs will be availalbe as surplus, or whether it'll be like the HUMVEEs where they're scrapped once they can't be used? (Not totally a thread hijack because this maybe would be a better expedition choice than a U1300 . . . though the one at CMI once was selling for about $300,000, which could get you about a dozen U1300s. :sombrero:)

[cwsqbm]

Anyone know whether these FMTVs will be availalbe as surplus, or whether it'll be like the HUMVEEs where they're scrapped once they can't be used? (Not totally a thread hijack because this maybe would be a better expedition choice than a U1300 . . . though the one at CMI once was selling for about $300,000, which could get you about a dozen U1300s. :sombrero:)

According to the DOD, the HUMVEEs don't meet DOT, and therefore can't be sold to the general public. I expect the same will happen with the FMTV. To me, its just a scam and a waste of our tax dollars.

[Jnich77]

According to the DOD, the HUMVEEs don't meet DOT, and therefore can't be sold to the general public. I expect the same will happen with the FMTV. To me, its just a scam and a waste of our tax dollars.

Not really, the Humvee has a 30-40 year service life. The Military gets its money out of them.

[rhodos]

Mike, you are right about the "under licence production" but hey they used the Steyr blueprints, so you basicaly get a Steyr (very similar to the 4x4 MAN 2000 which was made by Steyr too). If you wait a few years it should be possible to import some 12M18 legaly (25 years limit)

bye, Werner

btw, nice build at CMI

[dzzz]

Hi Iain

You make some valid points. We are looking for something to live in semi-permanently but at the same time, we don't need ALL of the luxuries. Some of the large Unicats with all the bells and whistles look wonderful but are sadly out of our price range. Something smaller which still has the basics (berth, kitchen, toilet shower, spare room for the Parisian hookers, etc.) would be all we need.

Cheers

Have you considered less truck? Maybe the Fuso FG? Even the biggest mogs don't have a long wheelbase and are a bit of an extravagance as a base for a camper. There's a lot of knowledge here on how to (and how not to) build an camper on a FG. Heavier trucks will have a higher cost per mile without a lot of added benefit.
If your not building the camper yourself starting with a second-hand expo type vehicle and doing some rehab will almost certainly be less expensive than starting from scratch and it will get you on the road sooner.
Many of us here want to design and build our own campers. But that approach is not necessarily to save money and it can delay actual travel.
True military trucks are fun for regional camping and wheeling but not necessarily for extended travel. Your not going to find may old soldiers looking to pleasure travel in a deuce and a half.

[Jolly Roger]

Have you considered less truck? Maybe the Fuso FG? Even the biggest mogs don't have a long wheelbase and are a bit of an extravagance as a base for a camper.

Actually, the Fuso FG was one of the first trucks we looked at. We have a dealer 5 minutes from where we live and would could pick up a brand new 4x4 until for around $50,000 CDN. The problem is that they run on the Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel which I've been told is not generally available outside of North America and Europe. I've also been told that using lower grade diesel in these vehicles would NOT be a good idea and would lead to all sorts of problems. We could opt for an older FG (if we could find a nice one) which would eliminate the ULSD problem. Do you think the FG could comfortably carry a similar load to a Mog (i.e. nice camper)?

[Jolly Roger]

and it's still up on the website at Creative Mobile Interiors:

http://creativemobileinteriors.com/sections/sale/BadBoy/BadBoyindex.asp.

Looks like a very nice truck but it would be hard to justify almost $300,000 for it. For that price you could get a pretty nice truck & camper combination.

[charlieaarons]

Re the "Bad Boy": I wouldn't touch it unless a diagnostic computer was included with diagnosis and parts and electrical diagram software; also guaranteed access to spare parts.

Charlie

[dzzz]

Actually, the Fuso FG was one of the first trucks we looked at. We have a dealer 5 minutes from where we live and would could pick up a brand new 4x4 until for around $50,000 CDN. The problem is that they run on the Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel which I've been told is not generally available outside of North America and Europe. I've also been told that using lower grade diesel in these vehicles would NOT be a good idea and would lead to all sorts of problems. We could opt for an older FG (if we could find a nice one) which would eliminate the ULSD problem. Do you think the FG could comfortably carry a similar load to a Mog (i.e. nice camper)?

I think the FG forum has a ton of information. Perhaps even work arounds for ULSD when leaving North America. Likely the same engine is used throughout the world.

It can't carry as much as the larger mogs but it can carry enough to be an overland -type vehicle. If you look at mogs analytically the only mog that can be made the proper length to carry a good size camper and weight is the U500 due to the conventional frame. Other mogs have wheelbases similar to large cars and a frame design that I've never heard of anyone making longer. Mogs aren't particularly good cab/chassis for campers at the mid price level. They are one of the good choices as high-end cab chassis for two person vehilces.
Does it make sense to start a mid price build paying for portal axles and trying to find an engine/axle combination that can keep up on the interstate? Probably not.
The FG cab id pretty small. My german-sized body likes a german vehicle. But for average size people the FG is an economical, reliable truck.

[Iain_U1250]

I suggest you do a bit of research on FG before buying one - seems like you have to know how to mount the camper properly or the chassis will break. Other known problem in the Fuso / Canter range are the front limited slip diffs, shock supports, driveshafts. All of which can be overcome, but I would be wary of buying a second hand one unless you plan on rebuilding it. Same goes for a mog but at least they are stronger to start off with.

As a way of putting things in context, this link is to a page with video of Ron's GXV U500 on the Tanami track - the videos show the good parts. Ron spent 6 hour on this road and all that broke was his fridge.

http://gxvmoghvn.webs.com/australia8tanami.htm

[dzzz]

There's nothing inherently fragile about an FG. Weight and capacity wise it's in the range of a heavy duty pickup. Treat it like a Class 6 or 7 commercial truck and it breaks.

The trick with mounting a camper on any cab chassis is to be leery of becoming an amateur automotive engineer. Not saying don't do it, just when in doubt error on the side of simplicity and proven methods. Real world physics doesn't care if we really don't understand issues like metal fatigue.

Essentially what happened with the FG was point loading a frame that was never designed for that sort of treatment. A mild steel torsion tube unimog is very different from an FG frame.

Personally in a six figure FG build I would start by finding out if there was a way to have All Terrain Warriors do it. Especially if Oz was in the long term travel plan.

[dzzz]

..........

As a way of putting things in context, this link is to a page with video of Ron's GXV U500 on the Tanami track - the videos show the good parts. Ron spent 6 hour on this road and all that broke was his fridge.



He did have the option of spending eight hours on the road and saving the fridge. I'm not comfortable with the idea that anything less than the most expensive will be regretted. Plenty of people do just fine traveling Oz in a Ford Fiesta and a tent.
If I drove that road with a U500 I would be thinking the whole way about using a grading attachment.
Thanks for the link. I'm curious what tire pressure Ron found best for washboarding. I'll shoot him an email.

[Jolly Roger]

Well, I would love an expedition vehicle like one of the GXVs based on the U500. Unfortunately, its out of my price range at the moment.

[Joe]

Hi,

Lassie aka Jürgen has a MOG, his specs from the Geman quote are:
Rear & front axle ~ 3 tons (metric) each
Tires MPT Conti 81
He had used here in Iceland (and there is really a lot of washboard!!) 2 bar (29 psi).

Hope that information helps.


Ich musste mich bzw unseren Mog an den für uns idealen Luftdruck im Gelände bzw Pisten herantasten. Für unsere Achslast (hi / vo je ca 3,0 to) bzw Radlast von je 1,5 to hab ich 2,0 bar in unseren MPT Conti 81 als ideal empfunden. Die MPT - Reifen sind natürlich für solch einen Einsatz ausgelegt und mit einer jeweiligen max Rad-Traglast von 3,55 to noch lange nicht ausgelastet - also eigentlich der Idealfall.
Generell: die Reifen übernehmen bei langsamen Tempo und niederem Luftdruck einen Teil der Federung, fangen aber zu walken an und werden dadurch potentiell warm. Du hast mit deinem Gewicht und deinen Reifen ganz andere Voraussetzungen als ich mit meinem relativ leichten Unimog und vergleichsweise kräftig dimensionierten Reifen. Dennoch denke ich, dass ein Luftdruck von 3 - 4 bar sinnvoll gewesen wäre. Einzelne Schnitte sind allerdings nicht vermeidbar - ich hab auch ein paar Kratzer in die Flanke bekommen. Da hilft nur vorausschauendes Fahren und Fahrspur 'lesen' - klappt leider nicht immer und nach 80 km Piste wird man müde...

[Jolly Roger]

Can anyone tell me the main difference between a U1300L and a U1550L? Is the U1550L just a beefier version of the U1300L or are there significant differences between the two models?

I've seen a U1550L for sale in Europe, details are as follows:

-Long wheelbase 3,7m
-Gearbox UG 3/65
-OM366A engine, turbo, power increased to 230hp
-Hydraulic PTO front
-New tires 405/70R20
-Split gearbox
-Fast axles
-Top speed 120kph
-Very good condition
-Year of production: 1993
-Mileage: 125.000km

Looks like a very nice, clean unit. Cost including shipping to Canada, duties, etc. would be around $57,000 CDN.

Is this a fair price for this model?

Many thanks

[Victorian]

Although I can't help you with specific details, but the price sounds alright. Any pics? Does it have AC? Is it just a chassis?

If possible try and get one with a flat bed! It would be super easy to mount a box on top of it!

[Iain_U1250]

Sounds more than fair is everything is in good condition, it certainly has everything you would want in a Mog.

Check for rust, but since all the body parts are either repairable or available through MB I would not worry to much about it.

Try to get some history on it - not many people modify a Mog to that extent - there must be a reason for it.

U1550 is the last of the "small" SBU's - it should be very similar to my U1250 but with the 150hp motor and it's the 3.7m wheelbase, so you gain an extra 1/2m of cabin space and 1.5 tons more load capacity.

[dzzz]

What's the weight and GVWR?
I would want to know the rpms at 60 mph.

I remember a 2450 L38 selling in the $50-60K price range a couple years ago. That's a bigger truck, but it may not have been as well optioned. I like the 2450 L38 as a camper platform.

3700mm is a long wheelbase for a mog, but a short one for a camper platform - 14' to 15' foot box with a design that carries all the weight forward.


Can anyone tell me the main difference between a U1300L and a U1550L? Is the U1550L just a beefier version of the U1300L or are there significant differences between the two models?

I've seen a U1550L for sale in Europe, details are as follows:

-Long wheelbase 3,7m
-Gearbox UG 3/65
-OM366A engine, turbo, power increased to 230hp
-Hydraulic PTO front
-New tires 405/70R20
-Split gearbox
-Fast axles
-Top speed 120kph
-Very good condition
-Year of production: 1993
-Mileage: 125.000km

Looks like a very nice, clean unit. Cost including shipping to Canada, duties, etc. would be around $57,000 CDN.

Is this a fair price for this model?

Many thanks

[polvoson]

I'm selling my 1300L in Port Coquitlam
If you would like to go for a drive let me know.its has fast axles, OM 366A and XM 47s.
It will do 98 on the hiway and crawl over anything you throw at it.
I PM ed you with my personal info.
Paul

[Jolly Roger]

Well, I finally pulled the trigger on a Unimog! I'm going to purchase the U1550L from Germany. It's a 1993 and has a OM366A engine, turbo, 230hp, 3.7m wheelbase, hydraulic PTO on front, split gearbox, fast axels and dual diesel tanks.

I'd like to thank everyone for all of the feedback, advice and support that was offered to me during the selection process. It really was a great help and much appreciated. I'll be sure to post some photos of the camper build as and when it gets underway.

Many thanks

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/999750908_sT5ie-M.jpg

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/999751058_4fhL7-M.jpg

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/999751192_cJSNj-M.jpg

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/999751821_VRCVZ-M.jpg

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/999751746_C7oYF-M.jpg

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/999752370_65acJ-M.jpg

[ersatzknarf]

Wow ! Loooks nice and clean. Looks like you got a nice one ! :D

[Victorian]

Congratulations! Looks like are very nice base for your camper.

Any idea about the history of your Mog? Hours? Millage? is it TUEV conform in Germany? Reason I'm asking about TUEV, is that it means the trucks is 100% roadworthy.

May have to come over from Victoria one day and pay you a visit. :smiley_drive:

Cheers

[oonimog]

Congrats on buying a great looking Mog. When can I expect to see it cruising around Langley?

[Jolly Roger]

Well, I'm still looking into options for constructing the camper box, either locally or in Germany. Depending on which option I go with, the Mog may be residing in Germany for another 6 months or so. However, as soon as I get it back to Langley I'll let you know and would welcome any visits from fellow Moggers.

[Victorian]

I would highly recommend that you contact Peter or Rainer at Archemobil.
http://www.archemobil.de/de/aktuell.html#c45 They both are former co-workers of mine at Unicat. I truly believe that this company is one to watch for in the future!!!

Cheers,
Andreas

[Victorian]

How about something like this one:
http://www.archemobil.de/index.php?eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FP1060374_Unimo_0610_2.jpg&width=800m&height=600m&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20style%3D%22margin%3A0%3B%20backg round%3A%23fff%3B%22%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript%3Aclose%28%29%3B% 22%3E%20|%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5=bbfd7560a97cfb122d3ec3e9671c4d89

[Jolly Roger]

I would highly recommend that you contact Peter or Rainer at Archemobil.
http://www.archemobil.de/de/aktuell.html#c45 They both are former co-workers of mine at Unicat. I truly believe that this company is one to watch for in the future!!!

Cheers,
Andreas

Looks like very nice products. However if they are in the same price range as Unicat then I'll have to give them a miss. I also couldn't find an English option on their website so was not able to read any of their information.

[Tmax]

congrats. looks like a very nice clean mog.

on a side note, the om366A are only rated up to 155 hp with factory specs.

[dzzz]

I would highly recommend that you contact Peter or Rainer at Archemobil.
http://www.archemobil.de/de/aktuell.html#c45 They both are former co-workers of mine at Unicat. I truly believe that this company is one to watch for in the future!!!

Cheers,
Andreas

There's a beast I hadn't seen before.
http://www.archemobil.de/uploads/pics/IMG_3668.jpg