Do you need a 4x4 SMB?

[Meekerfam]

Last January I picked up a 86 E350 6.9L 2wd. Since I've redone most the interior, added a 2" Lift, put 20" wheels and 275/60r20 Good year Wranglers HPs. When they wear out I plan on some Toyo's with the most aggressive tread , maybe mud terrains.
I've installed 2 deep cycle (house) 2 heavy duty starting batt. with a 1500w inverter right now the only load is a flat screen travel. DVD player, one 12" florescent light. have 2 table legs to install for a bed extention and table. have 2 gets of legs for the table one length for eating and one set for back extention.
next on the list is a roof rack W/ scene/spot lights and a good set of offroad Lights. hoping to fab up a winch mount after that.

With that said. would a 4x4 conversion really be worth the work and mpg loss?

[1leglance]

4x4 or no....well only you will be able to answer that and it will be based on how often you either get stuck or frustrated at not being able to go somewhere.
However it will happen over time so to worry about it now is too soon.

For me the 4wd part of the Disabled Explorers Sportsmobile means less worry about getting stuck and more fun for the disabled folks who come out to play.
Plus I like going farther away from other people.

[T.Low]

This issue just came up not that long ago. Check it out.

Lots of good points coverred.

I would do your thing for a while and sooner or later you'll know the answer. I've been doing this long enough to know that I wanted/needed 4x4.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46046

[RocKrawler]

^^^ pay particular attention to post #22. If you want to see stuff past the fireroad the 4WD will come in very handy, especially if you dont want to tear up the trails trying to get there in the process spinning only 1 (open diff) or 2 (locked diff) tires pushing a 7K+ lb vehicle somewhere it wasnt designed to go.

[spencyg]

Noticed you have seat belts coming out of your fold-out couch. I also noticed that the couch looks to be made of fairly light weight round tubing and is secured to the floor with C clips. I hope you aren't actually using that seat for passengers during travel...appears to be amazingly unsafe. Mind you, for usage once stopped, it looks great, but I wouldn't consider that an acceptable spot for passengers while underway.

Love your porta-potty solution!

[Jnich77]

If it was me I would keep it a 2x4 and just run all terrain tires. I would add a good locker and a receiver mounted winch that I could change from the front to rear of the vehicle.

If you look at the past... many "expeditions" were done in 2wd vehicles and they got out in some very remote places. really, you just have to knwo your vehicles,(and your) limits.


BTW: The nice thing about a 2x4 is when you re stuck..it usually doesn't take a tractor to get you out...lmao

[Gunracer1]

I find four wheel drive to be nessary for what I like to do. It all comes down to what you want to do.

[haven]

I think you should use the vehicle in rear wheel drive for now, and keep track of the times when you were held back by lack of traction and clearance. I think you'll be limited as much by the width and wheelbase of the van, as you will by the lack of 4x4.

Having 4x4 available is a good idea if you plan to travel solo off the pavement. Travel in rear wheel drive, and use 4x4 if you get stuck. It's less important if you travel with another vehicle that can render assistance.

[ihatemybike]

Still trying to decide which styling I hate more the Cube or the Juke. http://astrosafarivans.org/bb2/images/smilies/icon_oak.gif

[spencyg]

BTW: The nice thing about a 2x4 is when you re stuck..it usually doesn't take a tractor to get you out...lmao

There is much truth to this. The more "capable" your vehicle is off road, the further you'll get before you eventually get stuck. Then the only way to get unstuck is to find a vehicle MORE capable than your own to pull you out. The reality of the situation is that you'll find yourself in far less "sticky situations" in a 2WD vehicle than you would in a 4WD vehicle just because of the nature of getting stuck easier and in places where any 4x4 can pull you out.

Something to think about.

I loaded Boomer up with winches and other extraction gear for the sole reason that I know if I ever get stuck, NOBODY aside from somebody with a Skidder will be able to get me out.

[scotter]

If you are going to be doing any trails in mountain country (mining roads etc.) You will beifit from the 4x4. I used to have a 97 2x4 with a locker in the reaer and it would get me just about anywhere I wanted to go. In fact I used to pull stuck 4x4's back onto the road quite frequently. The big problem I had with the 2x4 setup was keeping the front end on the road or trail when it was slick. If you are going acrros a side slope in particular, if the trail is loose or the rocks are slick with snoe or rain you can get into trouble real quick if all the traction from your locked rear tries to push you in a direction you dont want go. Bottom line is if you plan on going someplace where gravity may win out over traction and your ability to steer on a slick or loose surface do the
4x4 conversion, it's a lot cheaper than tumbling your van down the side of a mountain. I mainly use four wheel drive for keeping the front end where it needs to be. :smiley_drive:

[Jnich77]

I loaded Boomer up with winches and other extraction gear for the sole reason that I know if I ever get stuck, NOBODY aside from somebody with a Skidder will be able to get me out.

I hat to laugh at ya man, but thats funny. I have had friends over the years with "bog trucks" and when those beast get stuck.... its not fun..evidently 18x44's find very deep holes to fall off into...lol.

[EMrider]

Last January I picked up a 86 E350 6.9L 2wd. Since I've redone most the interior, added a 2" Lift, put 20" wheels and 275/60r20 Good year Wranglers HPs. When they wear out I plan on some Toyo's with the most aggressive tread , maybe mud terrains.
I've installed 2 deep cycle (house) 2 heavy duty starting batt. with a 1500w inverter right now the only load is a flat screen travel. DVD player, one 12" florescent light. have 2 table legs to install for a bed extention and table. have 2 gets of legs for the table one length for eating and one set for back extention.
next on the list is a roof rack W/ scene/spot lights and a good set of offroad Lights. hoping to fab up a winch mount after that.

With that said. would a 4x4 conversion really be worth the work and mpg loss?

My family and I have had great fun in our SMB. Our experience is that 4x4 is a 'nice to have' not a 'must have' option. Probably 90% of our trips would have been doable without 4x4. Obviously I'm not pushing the edge in terms of technical difficulty in my outings. The few times that I have pushed the edge, 4x4 was necessary. I'm sure it helped me avoid getting stuck at least twice, and once I did get stuck despite 4x4. But that is 2 incidents in 50k plus miles..........
R

[dsw4x4]

For me it is a must have. I had a two wheel drive van for a long time and I respected it's limits (for the most part) and used it as a tow vehicle. Now that I have a 4wd van I would never go back. How do you use your van? Do you find yourself turning around due to lack of 4wd or has that never been an issue? If it has never been an issue or if you have not gotten your van stuck then i would say it is probably not worth it. If that has been an issue or you have been stuck in a two wheel drive van digging it out for hours on end then you know the answer is yes. Just a reminder 4wd just allows you to get stuck worse in a more remote location though. :smiley_drive:
Jnich77
you are so right when I lived in MO we burnt up winches and broke things that were never meant to be broke trying to pull our fully locked jeeps on 40s and 44s that were buried deep, sometimes to the top of the windshield!! If they can't find the holes and you have the power it will makes the holes.

[T.Low]

[QUOTE=dsw4x4;697257]

For me it is a must have....

Now that I have a 4wd van I would never go back.

How do you use your van? Do you find yourself turning around due to lack of 4wd or has that never been an issue? If it has never been an issue or if you have not gotten your van stuck then i would say it is probably not worth it.

If that has been an issue or you have been stuck in a two wheel drive van digging it out for hours on end then you know the answer is yes.QUOTE]



I think it's really as easy as that.

If you have to ask, it's probably not worth it. It was never a question for me either.

...but you do live in Washington state...hmm

My advice would be to put the resources elsewhere for now, and use the van. You can always do the swap later if you have a 4wd epiphany.:Wow1:

From the outside looking in, it looks to me like you may benefit more from a pop top than 4wd. Maybe start a seperate shoe box to stuff extra money into for when that perfectly trashed 4x4 SMB donor van comes along.:ylsmoke:

[Meekerfam]

Thanks for all the comment. Largest reason for wanting the 4x4 is for winter Camping. The wife has some medical issues that prevent ground Camping. So we one working on this by building the NSMB (non-Sportsmobile) we are in the Pac North and it gets very wet and cold in the winter.

Every comment that is on this is great! Both pro and con, not one person bashed either side.

For now I will keep the 2wd with mild lift, put some AT's on it and see how stuck I get. was planning an a front & rear winch for self & assigned recovery, 75% of the vans use is as a light weight Hwy Camper we do the to get off the beater path here and there.

Again thanks for all the input. Keep it coming. also looking for layout comments good, or bad on my project

[refried]

The only time I really wish I had 4wd is on snow covered roads, I got spoiled having a Subaru and not having to chain up all the time. I haven't had any problems on dry roads/trails other than dragging my trailer hitch and snow/ice covered roads usually aren't a problem unless it's a road like the last few miles of the Mount Baker Hyway (lots of steep switchbacks that tend to ice up). I'm going to try a good set of studded snows this year and see how it does, I'm sure the generic AT tires didn't help. chained up I have no problem.
Before I do a 4wd swap I'll add a selectable locker to the rear and see how much it helps.
What are you using to lift your van? I don't think I could go any higher in front with mine (the top of the fenders are about 54" from the ground), but I'd like to bring the back up about 2" and level it out.

[Stumpalump]

Wait untill your camping on that nice trail and it rains all night. Now you have 6" of mud with 2wd. Next spot is full of pop ups and trailers hogging up all the good spots. If you only had 4x4 you could get to the good spots. Next is you turn around on that fire road and drop a tire in a soft spot. Those old Fords are great and with all the stuff yours has it's only lacking the ability to get to the best camping spots. That is unless you think campgrounds and wallmarts make for good camp spots. Look here to see how easy a conversion is: http://www.ujointoffroad.com/

[refried]

Wait untill your camping on that nice trail and it rains all night. Now you have 6" of mud with 2wd. Next spot is full of pop ups and trailers hogging up all the good spots. If you only had 4x4 you could get to the good spots. Next is you turn around on that fire road and drop a tire in a soft spot. Those old Fords are great and with all the stuff yours has it's only lacking the ability to get to the best camping spots. That is unless you think campgrounds and wallmarts make for good camp spots. Look here to see how easy a conversion is: http://www.ujointoffroad.com/

Not having does limit where I go with the van and I'm very cautious where I'll stop knowing a little mud would getting moving again very difficult.
I've been using fuel economy as a reason not to do the swap but My van is 9' tall as it is I don't think adding a front axle and transfer case would hurt milage much. Do you make a kit or parts to convert earlier Fords?

[CSG]

I'm the guy that started that other thread and am still pretty much as conflicted today. My problem is I don't have the skills or interest in trying to do it myself so I'm looking at nearly $10k to have it done. I prefer camping out of the van but I do have a Land Cruiser too. With the economy the way it is and my own lack of discretionary income these days, it's a moot point in any event.

But I will say this, I would 100% prefer the van had 4x4 as it would remove the doubt I have when wanting to explore. I don't do hardcore stuff so I think of 4x4 as a security on snow or muddy roads. I'm not interested in running trails, doing rock crawling, etc. I'm more interested in the scenario where you go down a dry two-track and it snows overnight. Sure, I can carry chains but it's not the same as having the front axle working for you and having your rig balanced.

Still, as long as the weather's OK I can camp at places like this one in the SNRA in Idaho.

http://www.fenderforum.com/userphotos/photo.php?id=64458

[1leglance]

The wife has some medical issues that prevent ground Camping. So we one working on this by building the NSMB (non-Sportsmobile) we are in the Pac North and it gets very wet and cold in the winter.

Again thanks for all the input. Keep it coming. also looking for layout comments good, or bad on my project

Well aside from the 4wd conversion I would say there are a few things to think about..
#1 Get a Spot since your wife has a medical condition, the cost is trival in the end and the sense of security is great.
#2 Get either a pop top or high top installed as the extra head room makes the van SOOOO much more liveable. I love the fact that the Disabled Explorers Spotsmobile high top let's me move around without any time or hassle.
However with kids I would go with a pop top as the upper sleep space is actually useable.
#3 if you are winter camping the Espar diesel heater is amazing, I don't know the 6.9L engine (gas or diesel) so a propane setup might be in order instead. Either way it makes a HUGE difference.
#4 Setup you layout for cooking outside unless you have to deal with horrible weather, this will give you a better inside layout.
#5 The time and money you spend on sound deadener and insulation will be worth it a hundred times over down the road.

[4Rescue]

I've taken my 2wd VW Fow (albeit lifted and tire'd) places some people fear to go with a 4x4... THat said, I find my 4x4 4Runner to be far more capable and I like the insurance that 4wd can offer. Neat looking interior man, I love the hardwood floors, looks like home :D
lots of good advice here. I agree with others who've said keep track of when you've NEEDED 4wd and then make your decisions on YOUR needs. Maybe you do maybe you don't. Here in the WET NW 4wd can be the difference between getting to camp or home or spending the night in the bush. Course the point about getting stuck further out is spot on and hit a little to close to home eh ;) HAHAHAHAHA

Cheers

DAve
Cheers

Dave

[Saline]

Due to a recent hub failure I found out that in wet conditions a 10,000lb 2wd van sucks.

[zuren]

I posted in the other thread as well....

I drool over 4x4 vans but I have decided to look for a diesel 2WD. The penalty in fuel mileage, more moving parts to maintain and my overall planned use (mostly long distance on pavement, shorter distances on fire/gravel road) just doesn't support having a beast like that. My plan is to have a rear locker, recovery gear and good sensibilities if the going gets too rough.

Nice van!

[Jnich77]

I posted in the other thread as well....

I drool over 4x4 vans but I have decided to look for a diesel 2WD. The penalty in fuel mileage, more moving parts to maintain and my overall planned use (mostly long distance on pavement, shorter distances on fire/gravel road) just doesn't support having a beast like that. My plan is to have a rear locker, recovery gear and good sensibilities if the going gets too rough.

Nice van!

this logic is why I own a 2wd tundra on street tires...lol

[Meekerfam]

I do have a locker in the rear. plan on a tire change. front frame rail extentions to get a good winch mount and keep stock bumper look. put a rack up on roof, and will be set

[T.Low]

I do have a locker in the rear. plan on a tire change. front frame rail extentions to get a good winch mount and keep stock bumper look. put a rack up on roof, and will be set



Sounds sensible.

FWIW I have two sets of tires mounted on the same type of Chevy 5 spoke wheel.

My Kelly Pathfinder AT are light but tuff side wall, suprisingly good off road, great in rain. Got them as new returns to Discount tire $433 mounted etc. Wheels Craigslist $100. Sold my directional Chevy wheels on CL for $125. (Don't like that style at all)

I also have set of Goodyear Wrangler MT. Bought used off Expo, $450 to my door. CL another set of wheels for $125.

I figured, for aobut the cost of a new set of tires and custom wheels, I have two sets mounted and I won't need tires for atleast 75,000 miles.

I'm running the MT's on it currently, as I've done some 4x4 off road trips lately and have another one coming up in a couple weeks.

Then I'll swap back to the AT for the winter (they really do well in winter). We also do some long highway trips which of course the AT's a great for.

[cowboy4x4]

@ spencyg.... The seat you see in his van is ford factory, I have an 86 2x2 as well. ford put out two styles of tube ,round and square. The brackets are 5/16 thick with good size bolts. compared to todays thin metal mounting brackets I totally trust mine.