Poor Turning Circle???

[Mack73]

I'm looking into getting a vehicle to setup as a mild expedition/weekend camper/fire trails rig. I'm looking at a G-wagen as a medium size 4x4 with great potential.

But in looking at the specs the truning circle is somthing like 43.5 ft. I have a rather tight entrance into my house off of an Alley - where the turning radius is critical. I really don't want to backup 5 times every day to manuver it in the drive way. Is the turning radius really this bad? A damn Expedition has a 40ft turning circle!

[zimm]

to be honest with you... its my big gripe. i never thought a vehicle this size would maneuver like suburban... just never occurred to me.

[4Rescue]

Ouch!!!! Can the steering stops be modified or something or is there just bunch of steering bit and what not in the way??? Maybe a rim BS change, maybe along with the steering stops. That is really suprising to hear about these trucks.

Cheers

Dave

[somesnowday]

Huh. I really have no problem with my LBW G Wagen. It maneuvers really well I think. My G has a much tighter turning radius then a Suburban or a Land Rover Discovery.

-
Craig

[4Rescue]

Well... ZImm, being that you have a nice "smattering" of vehicles, how does it compare to the LX470 or even the FJ's (as I know they don't really have THAT great a turning circle for how short the W/B is)??? Is it more of a Live axle interference issue or what???

Clearly we have some varying experienced opinions here eh ;)

Cheers

Dave

[Mack73]

Well I was hoping the specs were being reported wrong all over the place, but here are some quotes I found in my searching:

The core G-Wagen is built like a battleship and has a similar turning circle http://www.trucktrend.com/features/163_0702_mercedes_benz_g_class/index.html

With its tighter turning circle, the Land Rover Range Rover Sport is definitely sprier than the Mercedes-Benz G-Class, something to consider if you do a lot of city driving; http://www.newcars.com/landrover/rangeroversport/reviews/mercedesbenz-gclass.html


Just found this thread on Benzworld: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/g-class/183478-turning-radius.html

Doesn't sound good :(

[somesnowday]

Well, I own a LWB G and I just sold my stupid Land Rover and I'm telling you from person experience and ownership of both that the Land Rover has nothing on my G with turning radius and I have never had a problem with its turning radius. I'm not saying that it turns on a dime, but seriously, the turning radius of my G (and others that I drive and work on for a living) has never ever been an issue.

Any comments from other G owners out there?

-
Craig

[kmaser]

I have a swb w460 and even have the steering stops turned out due to 35 12.50's rubbing. I have never had an issue driving around town, there has been a couple times that I have had to back up once in really tight muddy trees. I also have a g500 lwb and although the turning circle is large than some I have never had an issue with it either. I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor. You can adjust the steering stops to some degree but the limiting factor is rubbing the transverse control arms, angle on the axle cv's may be a factor also
A 1/2ton truck llikely has the same or larger turning radius and nobody worries about that.
kurtis

[zimm]

Well... ZImm, being that you have a nice "smattering" of vehicles, how does it compare to the LX470 or even the FJ's (as I know they don't really have THAT great a turning circle for how short the W/B is)??? Is it more of a Live axle interference issue or what???

Clearly we have some varying experienced opinions here eh ;)

Cheers

Dave

lets see... ill compare the fj, the lx470, the g, and 110nas (unloaded it this year)

everything is anecdotal. meaning, it could be technically wrong on paper!

alterations to rig....

gwagon, +2" tires mich ltx street tires
fj, bfg km2's 10.5/33's +3" suspention but its OME heavy duty rears h55f (rear arb disconnected)
110NAS +1 springs stock for '93 tube mich x's (old rock hard skinnies)
LX, 285/75/16 bfg18's




turning radius/off road maneuverability (sans trees)

1 the fj.... well duhhhhh.
2 tight race, but the nod goes to the 110 because it isnt as wide as...
3 the LX. its good but you still feel like youre wheeling a whale
4 gwagon, ya always gotta 3 point turn that *****

with trees

1 fj again
2 gwagon
3 lx
4 110 (never went NEAR a tree with that thing)

cross axle... ability to keep all four planted (not the same as an rti score)

1 110... yea, tough call but the loner wb and the soft coils made the....
2 railroad tie leafs on the swb fj suffer.
t4 the lx suffers from the ind front end
t4 but there is ls little excuse besides the germans wernt into wheeling when they set up a suspension with coils, live axle, and little play.

highway ride

1 LX, retardedly smooth. opinion preference for long trips.
2 gwagon, it lacks the fluid jounce and rebound control of the LX system and tries to make up for it with firm german street settings.. and it almost works! in fact if youre into a real 4wd truck that makes you speed too, this is it.
3 110 its good. i think i like it more than some rover aficionados. but thats an NAS... the other lacking the SD cage will likely loosen up considerably.
fj... well duhhhhh..

high speed pittsburgh driving bad potholes on sanfran like hill street grid..

1 lx. if you remeber how cars leaped and smashes on traversing cross streets on hills in Bullet, or streets of san fran... this truck will let you down. it takes sudden changes like a baja racer. no air, no driving the bumper in the ground.
potholes? little quiver, not much.
2 110, surprised? i was. i think the soft springs and great approach departure angles make up for being stone age compared to an lx. it aint cushy... but you dont wince either
3 the g doesnt bottom out because the g takes that **** out on you instead. its not jarring... but the lack of play when hitting a live axle square on the obstacle shows.
6 fj.. suicide. you wont bottom out, the car will look great, but you'll still be dead.


plain ol' off road all conditions trip....

1 gwagon. solid stucture, full lockers. easy to place because of shape (thats big). its a tank offroad. i love it.
2 mmmmmmmmm fj. the short comings of the wb are also its virtue. eaaaasy to maneuver makes for a low stress day.
3 110 very out of the box capable. more overlander than wheeler in design, itll shock you off road. stock lockers woulda made it tops.
4 lx, its a capable pig, but a pig none the less.

if i think of more comparos ill post em. ill take suggestions too.

[zimm]

braking


1 gwagon. rear drums? built with body armor? nooooo problem for those front calips.

3,3 the 110 had rover disks in back, (forgot that alteration), the lx is portly,
4 fj, not bad at all really. it just suffer from age.

[zimm]

Well I was hoping the specs were being reported wrong all over the place, but here are some quotes I found in my searching:

The core G-Wagen is built like a battleship and has a similar turning circle http://www.trucktrend.com/features/163_0702_mercedes_benz_g_class/index.html

With its tighter turning circle, the Land Rover Range Rover Sport is definitely sprier than the Mercedes-Benz G-Class, something to consider if you do a lot of city driving; http://www.newcars.com/landrover/rangeroversport/reviews/mercedesbenz-gclass.html


Just found this thread on Benzworld: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/g-class/183478-turning-radius.html

Doesn't sound good :(


Well, I own a LWB G and I just sold my stupid Land Rover and I'm telling you from person experience and ownership of both that the Land Rover has nothing on my G with turning radius and I have never had a problem with its turning radius. I'm not saying that it turns on a dime, but seriously, the turning radius of my G (and others that I drive and work on for a living) has never ever been an issue.

Any comments from other G owners out there?

-
Craig


I have a swb w460 and even have the steering stops turned out due to 35 12.50's rubbing. I have never had an issue driving around town, there has been a couple times that I have had to back up once in really tight muddy trees. I also have a g500 lwb and although the turning circle is large than some I have never had an issue with it either. I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor. You can adjust the steering stops to some degree but the limiting factor is rubbing the transverse control arms, angle on the axle cv's may be a factor also
A 1/2ton truck llikely has the same or larger turning radius and nobody worries about that.
kurtis

i spend allot time in the city and got to drive them all back to back on a daily basis. i gotta back in and out of tight parking with little area to swing.

the g is livable sure. but.... as an off road truck, having to back up off camber to swing around a tree blows. i still like it better than a rover, but i aint no brand loyalist.

the radius thing is true. if the lx is only 2 feet better (dont know), its a 2 feet thats greatly noticeable.

[Fernweh]

braking


1 gwagon. rear drums? built with body armor? nooooo problem for those front calips.



Rear drums? that was before the war:victory:

Now: disk brake front & rear, ABS, BAS, ESP = Ausgezeichnet!

http://up.picr.de/5109877.jpg

[burquedoka]

I know no specs, but I can say never have I stopped and thought to myself that my G's turning radius was an issue, on or off road, and I religiously use it on tight S.W.ern trails. It should not be a deterrent to your decision process.

[4Rescue]

Tight SW trails seem WIDE open compared to the forrest's here in the NW (sometimes... I've certainly seen some tight rock squeezes out there)... Plus you can drive over rocks alot easier then old-groth timber ;) (not to say wheeling in the SW is easy or unchallenging, it's just very differnt up here for sure) Imagine if all those trails and rock down there were covered in a liberal coating of wd-40 and some never-ending goo that cloged your tires etc. That's the NW for ya HHAHAHAHA

I'm really interested to see these beasts in action here in the slippery tangled trails I'm used to.

Thanks for all the good reponce's folks. Hopefully it'll help the OP out in his search a bit eh. Too Bad Mr. Brady is out exploring Mongolia (or is he back now :confused: )cause he sure has had nearly every truck under the sun so I'd be interested to hear his take on the G as well.

Cheers

Dave

[Mack73]

Yes I do appreciate everyones comments. Stats on paper are fine for comparison, but they mean jack in the real world.

I'm looking for a more luxury off-roader (I tainted her with the Audi and she won't accept anything less...oops)

So I'm down to a LR4, G-wagen or GX470.

[zimm]

a gx is based on the LC 120 platform. its a gussied up 4 runner. which is nice. ive never driven one, but a friends wife years ago bought one over an lx. i think she liked the lighter truck better in handling.

i think theres a difference between a luxury car, and a car with luxury appointments.

a gwagon is like an 80 series landcruiser. truck first. its got a live axle in the front. the 120 (and 100) platform has an independent front end which invariably is gonna ride better. the g does a great job, but the potholes and washboards come thru. if shes used to a car like suspended sport ute... and aint into trucks... you may have an issue.

make sure you buy it a price you can sell it for.

[stevegsmith]

Yes I do appreciate everyones comments. Stats on paper are fine for comparison, but they mean jack in the real world.

I'm looking for a more luxury off-roader (I tainted her with the Audi and she won't accept anything less...oops)

So I'm down to a LR4, G-wagen or GX470.
Turning radius schmurning radius. Between your three choices, I bet there ain't much diff in reality.
If it were me, it'd be between the G and the GX.
The GX seems like a great vehicle for the price (from what I've heard) and it will be less expensive to maintain. Supposed to be reliable and you'll have a greater variety of accessories (for now). But the G is a G and I'm too biased to offer an objective opinion really. Remember, G's for the most part are still hand made.
I'd suggest you drive both. New G's are well appointed and really really fun to drive. Drive the GX first though.
My two pennies.

[Mack73]

Yes well the wife want's interior features (bluetooth, nav. blah blah) and leather in a package that looks good. Ride quality really isn't a concern thankfully. Although she really loves the 7 seat (adult sized) ability of the LR4, which is why it is on the list... the reliabilty and excessive use of air bags on the other hand.....

My job is to get the most offroad capability with those restrictions :ylsmoke:

For giggles, here are the turning radius of each (info pulled from edmunds)

G-Wagen: 43.5 ft
LR4: 37.6 ft
GX470: 37.4 ft

So yeah we're talking about an additional 6 ft for the G

[Fernweh]

Yes well the wife want's interior features (bluetooth, nav. blah blah) and leather in a package that looks good. Ride quality really isn't a concern thankfully. Although she really loves the 7 seat (adult sized) ability of the LR4, which is why it is on the list... the reliabilty and excessive use of air bags on the other hand.....

My job is to get the most offroad capability with those restrictions :ylsmoke:

For giggles, here are the turning radius of each (info pulled from edmunds)

G-Wagen: 43.5 ft
LR4: 37.6 ft
GX470: 37.4 ft

So yeah we're talking about an additional 6 ft for the G

Yeah, I just made the turn from the I-405 here onto the 101 Freeway and it almost had to be a three-pointer with all the afternoon traffic behind me ;-)

I certainly would get the LR4 and not be sleeping on the downstairs couch.

[Desertstar]

Yeah, I just made the turn from the I-405 here onto the 101 Freeway and it almost had to be a three-pointer with all the afternoon traffic behind me ;-)

I certainly would get the LR4 and not be sleeping on the downstairs couch.

Karl, I keep telling you, use Sepulveda !!:wings:

[zimm]

hehe. brand loyalists are funny. :coffeedrink:

sure youll get used to whatever you drive. but the radius... its noticeable, im tellin ya. i commented the first time i backed into the drive. .

if shes ok with a wider track truck, id recommend a 2003 or later LC 100/lx470. motor and transmission upgrades.

you cant beat the appointments, the ride or the reliability. wanna cheap lift? move the sensors 1". off road goodies are about 1/2 the cost of g wagons. interior space? well the AO drawers i have in my lx470 are both too wide and too long to adapt to the g.

future offroading when the wife is done? http://www.sleeoffroad.com/

oh... and hand built is the reason my rain gutters werent welded the same on both sides. i had to go from a heavy duty AL weatherguard rack base to a thinner AL casted quick-n-easy base. robots do it better! (although one can make a strong case a german IS a robot)

[Fernweh]

hehe. brand loyalists are funny. :coffeedrink:

And we can also make fun about ourselves.....

sure youll get used to whatever you drive. but the radius... its noticeable, im tellin ya. i commented the first time i backed into the drive. .

nothing a CAT D-7 would be able to take care of

if shes ok with a wider track truck, id recommend a 2003 or later LC 100/lx470. motor and transmission upgrades.

Good choice:smiley_drive:

you cant beat the appointments, the ride or the reliability. wanna cheap lift? move the sensors 1". off road goodies are about 1/2 the cost of g wagons. interior space? well the AO drawers i have in my lx470 are both too wide and too long to adapt to the g.

Nice to have wide drawers for half the price

future offroading when the wife is done?

With whom?

oh... and hand built is the reason my rain gutters werent welded the same on both sides. i had to go from a heavy duty AL weatherguard rack base to a thinner AL casted quick-n-easy base.

What's wrong with the gutters now? I do like them a lot.....

You might have gotten a G-wagen from Austria, built on one side by a Turkish and on the other side by an Armenian craftsman....they might have not been talking to each other....

Robots do it better! (although one can make a strong case a german IS a robot)

Yes, I think your are absolutely right the Germans are robots, programmed by:victory:

BTW I watched a guy taking a G-500 over the Imogene Pass (13114 Feet) in Colorado, not just the truck alone but towing an offroad Adventure Trailer as well. That guy didn't have any problems mastering the tight hairpin turns with his rig at all. No, there were no trees around - at that altitude.
Most hot-air blowing folks will get nose bleeding up that high:wings:

[zimm]

the loader would have to take down my garage, which was built before the 10' setback ordinance.. cant loose that!

the gutters are nice and deep... which makes them a bit fussy with standard all purpose clamps.. but what im referring to is the drivers side on mine being a bit tighter than the passenger side. enough so, that i would have had to bend it a bit to mount a weatherguard cross bar. which kinda sucked because i keep those in stock. i figured id have to custom fab a clamp, but i didnt think the casting would be too thick (on one side).

besides adding a trailer having never improved ones turning radius, the biggest limitation there is experience! THAT is something left best to the wide open west. i almost went that way once then thought better of it. ill stick to an rtt.



and wile i got ya.... when are the 50mm spacers coming on line?

[Fernweh]

the loader would have to take down my garage, which was built before the 10' setback ordinance.. cant loose that!

and wile i got ya.... when are the 50mm spacers coming on line?

What's wrong with parking on the front lawn?

The 50mm Spacers.....wish they would be produced by a Robot.....

I'm still haggling over the outrages engineering cost (for the additional 20mm) plus buying the minimum production run......

How many sets do you need?:elkgrin:

[burquedoka]

Tight SW trails seem WIDE open compared to the forrest's here in the NW (sometimes... I've certainly seen some tight rock squeezes out there)...
Dave

Yes you are correct about the abundance of wide open trails here in my backyard, but do notice I said TIGHT SW trails, since, contrary to popular belief, we DO have forests here in NM. Besides that, I have done Imogene and Black Bear several times, both of which have as tight a hair pin turn as you can get, no problems. I just don't see an issue here. my $.02:coffee:

[spressomon]

Zimm...on the subject of lightly comparing 100-Series and G: How have the overall electrics/electronics reliability been on your G?

Thanks,
Dan

[Fernweh]

Zimm...on the subject of lightly comparing 100-Series and G: How have the overall electrics/electronics reliability been on your G?

Thanks,
Dan

Let's start a new thread. so we do not have all the "bad" vibes buried just in one.

Something like: " How many times have you been stranded in a G-wagen"

[zimm]

Let's start a new thread. so we do not have all the "bad" vibes buried just in one.

Something like: " How many times have you been stranded in a G-wagen"


off to the bad vibe failure thread for my rant....