Batteries

[trust]

Looks like I may need a new battery for the Jeep, is there a consensus on th ebest bang for the buck for a reliable battery? I have an Interstate now that I don't think is even out of warranty so that may influence my decision, after several Optimas.

thanks

[jeepdreamer]

Whats it for Trust?
a DD, a dedicated trail rig, expo vehicle/do it all?
None, some, or lots of the following?
Extra lights?
Winching?
Big old Boom-boom stereo (yeah, we found out about your other hobby...LOL)

Maybe sone more ideas of its use and needs will help?

[trust]

yeah, that would have been helpful huh? well it is a sometime DD, longer off highway trail/camping vehicle primarily. Does see a lot of resting time (goes for a while not being driven), does have a winch and a couple of extra lights but not a bunch. Does need to power an ARB refrigerator overnight while on the trail. NO Boom thumpa stereo, in fact, the factory radio doesn't seem capable of picking up the sirius receiver two ft away so I listen to that with earphones and leave the factory radio off.

Another question, I've got it out and charged up, can I assume that if it still reads the same votage across the terminals later tonight, tomorrow and each of the next couple of days that the reason it's not holding a charge is not the battery but rather a hidden load in the heep somewhere I need to chase? Or will the unloaded voltage stay high until it sees a load?

Thanks, Hope that clarifies things

[dockrat14]

Optima has always done the trick for me. Yes they are expensive, but you probably wished you spent the extra money and got one when you are out camping in the middle of nowhere and you have a dead battery. And the voltage can always be good but its the load that tells the story.

[Maximus Ram]

Trust, go to this section

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=48

type in battery in the search. There are a few threads comparing Odessey,Optima, Diehard and others.

[Mr. D]

let us know what you learn or decide

[gprsdlyt]

FWIW, i have a mopar 800 cca from a ram cummins in my wj.
2+ years no probs. no winch yet, just a bunch of lights.

[jeepdreamer]

Just my humble opinion from a few years and a few trails...ahem.
For a DD that is 90% paved road and the rest nothing more than fireroads...Go with just a good quality, High CCA off the shelf batt with a warranty. Its gonna do what needs doing and unless it has a flaw will last quite a while.
For anything after that I go only dry cell. Optima is what I usually run only since they are available everywhere now days. Even Pep boys carries them but you gotta play price match there as they like to mark 'em up!
Why the extra expense...? Several reasons.
Last thing I want to encounter out in the boonies is a dead battery if I am counting on it. All my jeeps are manual so that can be aided but not always.
Off road will beat the crap out of normal "liquid" batteries. The vibrations and bangs and sloshing can cause the lead plates to unseat and then its almost a done deal.
A deep reserve, High CCA will work in most cases even involving a winch and OR lights as long as the entire system is maintained. A duel setup is not a bad idea but I only run that in one of my rigs. It is more than twice the cost (extra wiring and crossovers etc..) and while is good for long winching sessions (you can run one, cool the other as needed) or emergency self starts...you need to look at how much that is worth to you.

[trust]

Thanks everyone, I'll take a look at the link you provided Maximus, thanks,

the one that I think is dying is an 850CCA Interstate, presumably a good battery, but it is about 48 months into an 85 month warranty. It read 13.4 Vdc when I took it off the charger last night, 13.0 vdc this morning when I checked it and 13.0 vdc just now (1900 MDT) so if it is not holding charge it's not losing it quickly. May have to start looking for a hidden load

Points well taken Jeepdreamer, this attery was sort of a fluke good deal or I'd have done another optima when the last one died for those very vibration concerns you mention. A dual system maybe in the future but that comes after a few other upgrades already in the queue.

[Maximus Ram]

Trust, do you have an Autozone or something similar that you can take the battery to and have them test it ? It may have a bad cell .

[trust]

There is one Napa and one Autozone here in town, I was thinking I'd load it up and drop it by for a load test tomorrow, thanks for reminding me to do that Maximus

[FlexdXJ]

DieHard Platinum. its a rebadged Odyssey for $100 less!:victory:

[trust]

I went to our local Autozone today for a load test, the kid who did it said it tested ok, had a full charge and everything was OK so I guess I'll put it back in and start chasing leaks. When that doesn't work I will likely make the trek to Sears for an Odyssey

Thanks for the input guys! I do appreciate it

[Maximus Ram]

So you thought the battery was bad because >>
I would start with the cables. Even if they look good,there can be corrosion under the covering. Went through the same thing with a couple of vehicles. The first thing I do now with starting/charging problems is change out the cables. It can be the cheapest thing to change first and saves you $$ in the long run.

[trust]

So you thought the battery was bad because >>
I would start with the cables. Even if they look good,there can be corrosion under the covering. Went through the same thing with a couple of vehicles. The first thing I do now with starting/charging problems is change out the cables. It can be the cheapest thing to change first and saves you $$ in the long run.

Thanks Maximus, I've had the same issue in the past so I now use the terminals with the bolt and nut and cables with ring eyes on them, they are 00 welding cable with soldered on eyes that are then shrinkwrapped over a label. I'll do some resistance measurements though to be sure. Back to the first question, I first thought it was the battery because the last several times I went out to drive the Jeep the battery has been dead and that was something new and was occurring after having been driven enough to ensure it was fully charged, the period was also decreasing, that is It would be fine 3-4 weeks of not moving then 2 weeks then 1 then less than one and I hadn't added or changed any electrical loads....And the battery was 4 years old which is mid warranty (85months). So I pulled it out to do a full recharge with the charger and it immeduately seemed to lose a half a volt charge withing 3-4 hours. Besides, that's the most expensive thing it could be......

[MuckSavage]

Your battery tested fine now, but one bump in the road could change that. Years ago I had a problem with a battery. It would be fine for days, then all of a sudden...dead. I was told that it could have a loose plate, or all of the gunk that falls off the plates piles & causes a short. Changed the battery & the problem went away. Also as stated. Replace your cables. Get the largest guage you can find!

[Maximus Ram]

Thanks Maximus, I've had the same issue in the past so I now use the terminals with the bolt and nut and cables with ring eyes on them, they are 00 welding cable with soldered on eyes that are then shrinkwrapped over a label. I'll do some resistance measurements though to be sure. Back to the first question, I first thought it was the battery because the last several times I went out to drive the Jeep the battery has been dead and that was something new and was occurring after having been driven enough to ensure it was fully charged, the period was also decreasing, that is It would be fine 3-4 weeks of not moving then 2 weeks then 1 then less than one and I hadn't added or changed any electrical loads....And the battery was 4 years old which is mid warranty (85months). So I pulled it out to do a full recharge with the charger and it immeduately seemed to lose a half a volt charge withing 3-4 hours. Besides, that's the most expensive thing it could be......

Did you make yours or buy them ?

[madizell]

Couple of observations:

Optima batteries are AGM-style (absorbed glass mat), not dry cells. You can find dry cells for drag racers and such, but they cost more than your mortgage, don't do as good a job in running winches and such because they don't cycle as freely, and I have never seen one on an off-roader in the last 40 years of running the woods. Manufacturing quality for Optima has declined in the last several years, but they do still make a good battery. Not the best warranty in the world, but a good battery.

Welding cable is generally expensive, and is no more conductive than automotive battery cable. If you have some laying around, fine. I would not go out of my way to buy it, though. In making up heavy duty cables, size matters. NAPA and the like will make battery cables for you in any gauge you want, limited to availability. Get big ones, and ask for arctic cable if it is available in your area. Arctic cable is fine-wire cable (similar to welding cable) that is very flexible, and thus easier to route around in making battery and winch connections. If your local dealer doesn't stock arctic cable, ask if they will order it.

You can solder the lugs if you wish, but I would have them swaged, which is how NAPA will do it anyway. If you want to solder also, go for it, but if all you do is solder, the heat generated by heavy winching can create just about enough heat to melt solder. Don't trust it to be the only joining there is between cable and lug.

As for the battery, for a daily driver, get a good CCA rated battery off the shelf with a good warranty. If you want hard core for winching and rough off road use, get an Odyssey. I have one that is 8 years old, spent more than half of its life on a shelf in the garage, has been drawn down to less than 4 volts recently (left the darned radio on) and it still recovered 100% and is going strong. It is steel cased, deep cycle, thin plated, runs in any position, and is an AGM-style battery

[trust]

Maximus - I made them several years ago, had some cable that was tail end of a spool and needed new ones as the #4 ga off the shelf cables weren't up to it in my view.

Madizell - Good points, our local Napa doesn't make cables or hoses like many do but it might be worth having a new set made next time I go to town. I am thinking about taking the battery to the nearest interstate battery store and seeingif they will go ahead and warranty it for the reasons you suggest, it is about half way through it's warranty. Failing that I'll likely go to at least one Odyssey.

thanks for the input guys

[ExpoMike]

Throwing out my opinion, based on facts of how electricity works. First fact, electrons run on the "outside surface" of a strand of wire. More strands, less resistance as you allow a more free flowing path.

Take two 4 ga multi strand cables. One your typical auto cable, one your typical welding cable. Count the number of strands. An auto cable might be as low as a dozen, maybe up to about 50 strands. Welding cable typically will be in the low 100 and might be up to a few hundred strands. Overall capacity is the same based on the load rating of a 4 ga cable but you will have less current/voltage loss with the welding cable over an auto cable. A bonus is that the more strands, the more flexible is it.

With everything else being the same, a higher strand count will be the better choice for cable, especially if you are building your own.

As for a battery choice, been really happy with my Sears Platnium battery.

[cnynrat]

Throwing out my opinion, based on facts of how electricity works. First fact, electrons run on the "outside surface" of a strand of wire. More strands, less resistance as you allow a more free flowing path.

This is true for AC current, not so much for DC current. The skin effect you speak of becomes more predominant as frequency increases, and really becomes significant in the RF range. So, for DC power distribution, skin effect is not an important consideration.

[madizell]

I would agree with cnynrat on that one. A solid copper conductor would probably be your best bet for carrying a heavy load without generating excessive heat, but it would be a bugger to route such cable. I suggest arctic cable only because of its flexibility which is handy under the hood. But it is not required. Cross sectional density is what you want. Welding cable actually has less cross sectional density gauge for gauge than standard stranded cable, and is made of fine wire for flexibility reasons, not for reasons of conductivity.

Bottom line is that you can have cables made to order, and they are not really all that expensive, nor do you need to seek out exotic cable material to get good results. All you need is cable large enough that the cable itself is not the point of greatest resistance in the electrical circuit.

[Tumbleweed]

I used to have great luck with Optima's but in the last 4 years the quality is just not there. I rarely get over two years service out of any battery, of any price. I am to the point that when they get to two years age I plan on replacing them anyway. They then go to someone with a forklift or similar equiptment where they are not having to rely on them as much. If I am going to be out in the "boonies", I always have another vehicle along; or I will carry a second known to be good battery. I am done paying $150 plus for batteries though.

[trust]

Thanks guys, interesting on the cables, I had assumed that the high strand count cable was the way to go but perhaps not the best afterall, I'm going to put it all back together and see if it starts, the battery is down to 12.75vdc tonight. I also cleaned up the battery tray, cut a rubber mat for it and have cleaned the terminals and clamps to help minimize resistance to the cables, which seem to check out ok with my meter.

sure been an education, thanks