7.3L vs. 6.0L vs. V10 Sportsmobile

[Toolman]

Diesel vs. GAS

I've been searching for the perfect SM for some time now and I know the basic over all differences between the drive trains with axles and T-Case, between the 2 generations.

My question is:

I have heard from multiple sources that the 6.0L Ford Diesels have major problems with the turbos and other issues.. Does anyone have some positive stories about the 6.0L ???? The 7.3L I'm looking for is getting harder to find as time goes on.

How does the gas mileage compare to all of the above including the V10 ?

I want to be able to flat tow my 98' Wrangler.. being that it has extra weight added to it with heavier axles, body armor, etc. it weighs some where around 5500 lbs.
I'm not against the 6.0L because it does have some Features and benefits the 7.3L doesn't... mainly the Atlas 2 and Dynatrac are much more attractive to me especially if it has ARB's .. which makes me want a little bit newer SM.. but the motor issues has always been a question I've had.

I want to be happy with my purchase as it will be with me for a long time.. however I would hate myself later down the road if I didn't ask for some advice on this matter from the people who already have owned these.

Any advice is welcome.

thanks

[18seeds]

Well i just went through the same thing and have ended up with a 7.3. I found a 2003 with 110k miles. If you are going with a 6.0 it is safer to stay with a 2006 or newer because a lot of the bugs were worked out by then. Finding a low mileage V10 used was tough.

In my case i wasn't looking for a sportsmobile just a 4x4 van. You can find a local conversion company to do it better and cheaper.

[billwilson]

I would ask you detail on what your use of rig and goals

My two cents:

Gas V-10
- quiet
- non smelly

Rig
- ford E350 ( eb espcially since you have jeep )

Drive train
- quadravan, uses ford parts
- however just read something that quigly now does too
- you mentioned Atlas 2 and Dynatrac
- I would think that if towing a jeep, that is your primary off roader
- why muck up the Van rig??

Rig Build:
- SMB for XL storage (single best thing on my rig)
- SMB or Colorado for penthouse top
- Fiberine for fixed top
- the PNW outfit (cant think of name ) for interior
OR Jeff at RVI in San Diego (want pics? he did my interior)
* builders other than SMB will get you what you want and prob better quality for less $$

bw out

[jh504]

The V10 has issues with the spark plugs like the 5.3. The threads are either too many or too little depending on what year. It will either spit your plug out like a rocket or it will get stuck in there.

We use the E450 with 6.0 on our ambulances and they are the worst vehicles we have ever owned. They are constantly breaking down and are in the shop all of the time. Also they are very slow compared to the 7.3 or the Duramax. We are switching our fleet to Chevy's because of the 6.0.

The 7.3 is a great motor. I love driving our old van ambulances with 7.3. They are fast and reliable.

[18seeds]

This is a pretty good deal http://sportsmobileforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5598
Low miles and SMB pop top. Do a UJoint 4x4 conversion and you got a nice solid rig. If you need interior work contact dsw4x4 on this forum.

[Toolman]

My goals are with rig are as follows.
I have the TJ with an off road trailer and we love our little rig.. however the most fun I have is in the winter and my better half enjoys it but she would be more comfortable inside a warm and cozy SM instead of the RTT when the bad stuff hits, for me I'm okay on the ground in a 1 man tent. Also my neices and nephew are coming of age and I want to be able to take them on some adventures before our government takes all the land away from us and they don't get to see the beautiful back country.. no matter how hard we fight, we will always be fighting for the land use in this "FREE CUNTREE" I just did the Rubicon and with the exception of Cadillac Hill I believe a 4X4 van can make it through there.. even to get to Rubicon Springs or Buck Island would be awesome in a Van... challenging I know and I wonder if anyone has tried to do it.
My main use will be to get to base camp in and around CA to do the Rock Crawling with the Jeep and eventually take farther trips to Moab, and drive accross country and see all the sites.. be self sufficient and be able to do all necessary repairs myself. Just like my Jeep.

I drive a Freightliner with cummins diesel and an alison transmission all day everyday for work. so I'm used to the diesel smell. it gets great gas mileage and has been very reliable and pulls 20,000 lbs of chrome with ease. I wish Ford would wise up and put that combination in an E350, I would be first in line with my $60K. My Dad has had a 7.3L in his Excursion and swears by it, and to avoid the 6.0L...

I'm not against a V8 or a V10 I just wonder how the gas mileage will be and towing up hills.

V10 I hear are terrible on gas mileage and will blow the spark plugs out like you said.. I sell the kit to fix that problem and to do it right takes about $600 plus labor. Being that I'm in the automotive industry I get all the inside advice from pro techs but I wanted to hear what some of you guys had to say that actually have and own these beasts.

Pretty much confirmed everything I've heard. 06' and newer, stay away from the V10, and the 7.3L has the power I want.

I would like to build my own however I know how I am.. I will end up spending more money building my own than I would if I bought one already done..
I'm not too familiar with U Joint.. however I can buy the Atlas, Dynatrac and all the necessary parts from Poly Performance to do it myself... oh ya and drive shafts.
I also like the resale value that a SM has if I ever wanted to sell it. I can speak from experience that the Atlas 2 gear drive transfer case is bullet proof, every off road buggy out there uses and abuses them.. I have one in my jeep and I love the fact I can control front and rear individually, especially in tight turns, kick out the front and unlock the rear and you're still in low gear to climb around a switch back... push the stick forward and hit the button and you're all locked up again. Ford parts don't have the versatility of those creature rock crawler comforts.. I probably won't be rock crawling in a van but I will eventually go to an atlas anyways.

I haven't seen any other 4X4 conversions that are done the way I like them, maybe I have had my head in the clouds...

BTW I was thinking that the one in Orange County was a good deal but I would have to tear out the interior completely and start over.... In that case I would rather buy a delivery van... which brings me back to a SM for around $75k

I too have the awsome usless hood scoop from TRD on my 4 door Tacoma which I'm selling

Thanks for the advice.
Keep it coming.

[18seeds]

BTW I was thinking that the one in Orange County was a good deal but I would have to tear out the interior completely and start over.... In that case I would rather buy a delivery van... which brings me back to a SM for around $75k

I think you will have a hard time finding a delivery van with low miles like the one in Orange County. That is the first 7.3 (4x4 or 2wd) that i have found with under 100k miles.

I also think you will be amazed on how much cheaper it is it have the interior of your van outfitted when you compare it to an SMB interior conversion. Also there are outfitters out there that are using more modern materials in their conversions.

Again, don't get me wrong i think SMB's are AWESOME just that it is not easy to find a used one.

I was real close to buying a 2008 6.0 Quigley. It was still under the factory warranty but was out of my budget.

[jh504]

The 5.4 will blow out the plugs too, as Im sure you know. Thats why I no longer own an F250. If I had went with a 7.3 I would probably still be building.

X2 on checking out Ujoint. If anything he would have some great insight.

[EMrider]

This topic can become a quasi-religious debate.

IMHO, it is worth spending an hour to check out these videos.

http://www.powerstrokehelp.com/6liter/6vs7/1of6.asp

http://www.powerstrokehelp.com/6liter/nightmare/1of2.asp

R

[jh504]

We definitely had issues with the 7.3's as well. But most of them had 300,000+ miles on them. The 6.0's we have give us problems from day one. That is the only real world knowledge I have of them though, I have never personally owned either.

[stewie]

This topic can become a quasi-religious debate.

IMHO, it is worth spending an hour to check out these videos.

http://www.powerstrokehelp.com/6liter/6vs7/1of6.asp

http://www.powerstrokehelp.com/6liter/nightmare/1of2.asp

R

Excellent references.

[Toolman]

Now that is the kind of information I needed...

Thanks to Bill Hewitt for taking the time and posting that information. He truly knows what he's talking about.

WOW !!!!!!

Thanks for posting that link.

[18seeds]

give us the cliff notes

[EMrider]

give us the cliff notes

IIRC, the highlights are something like this.

1) Ford rushed the 6.0psd to market before working out all of the kinks to 'beat' the new at the time duramax.
2) That is why early model years had so many problems.
3) Even with the kinks worked out in later model years (post 2004-5), the 6.0psd remains a much more complex/sensitive motor than the 7.3.
4) Fluids are key, much more critical to the 6.0 than the 7.3.
5) Aside from not using/changing fluids correctly, the best way to create trouble with the 6.0 is to chip or mod the engine for extra HP/torque. Keep it stock.
6) Much of these problems were compounded by crappy US diesel fuel that had a high carbon content. This changed for the better with introduction of ULS diesel in 2007. Low sulfur fuel helps the 6.0.
7) If you stay on top of the basics, the later years 6.0 is a solid motor.....but you've got to stay on top of the basics. The 7.3 is much more forgiving.

This guy's entire video series is a goldmine of useful information for all PSD owners. Wish his repair shop were on the west coast. I've had zero trouble from my 6.0psd in 55k miles. Oddly, it has been the most reliable vehicle our family has ever owned. But odds are something will break and having a competent repair facility is a real plus.

R

[Toolman]

I think what I took away from it was that the 6.0L is much more expensive to maintain over the period of 400,000 miles. The turbos are more complex making the 6.0L a faster off the line.

If you're going to tow heavy loads for long distances the 32 valves are more susceptible to wearing out faster because they have a side load on them which creates undue wear and tear on the valves and the guides..

Each cylinder has 4 bolts on the 6.0 which caused the head gasket problem and the 7.3 has 6 bolts on each cylinder. ARP has a $500 stud kit you can buy and install on the 6.0 .. also the stock head bolts are a 1 time use only at 60 foot lbs of torque (head gasket blows out on long haul with a heavy load) .. where as the ARP you torque them down to 245 foot lbs.. problem solved.. if you have to do a valve job on a 6.0 you should spend the $$$ on the ARP upgrade.

I comprehended more than I thought

[18seeds]

we need an ecoboost 6.2 V8 in the vans

[dsw4x4]

Aside from the 6.0 7.3 debate I have some real world v10 7.3 numbers for you to crunch. My van 15 pass poptop raised roof is a 7.3 with 4.10s and 35 inch tires. My buddy has the same van in a v10 with a raised roof poptop 34 inch tires and I believe he has 3.70s. Lightly loaded towing nothing we both run around 14mpg at 70 or 75 going across Kansas/ Nebraska. Up that speed about to about 80 or 85 my 7.3 stays around 14 he drops to about 12mpg add a head wind he drops a little bit more I stay the same. Add a trailer hauling a load I drop to about 12 he drops to about 8. Head west in the mountains instead of east across the plains towing a load his speed is forced to drop to around 40 and gpm is 6 to 8. I drop to 12 or ten on a real bad day and my speed stays above 60. If you plan on towing a lot I would stay away from the v10 everything seems to work harder tranny temps run higher etc etc...

[Toolman]

I found it and next weekend I will be picking it up... :wings:.

I will post some pics and the story when it's home safe and sound in my back yard...

[EMrider]

I found it and next weekend I will be picking it up... :wings:.

I will post some pics and the story when it's home safe and sound in my back yard...

Excellent news and congrats! Look forward to hearing more.
R

[Saline]

We have an 04 6.OL and love it. No real problems other than some issues from it sitting for months with the PO.

The 6.0L is a horrible engine for ambulances and I wouldn't totatlly judge it by that.
Ambulances frequently do all of the following that are not 6.0 friendly:
Extended idling periods
Cold start then run hard
Quick shutdowns
-----
Change your filters and oil regularly
Don't idle on low idle
Let the turbo cool down before shutdown
Install a coolant filter
Don't bump the HP too much with a tuner as heat buildup is an issue in the vans

I'll cross my fingers too.

[ujoint]

we need an ecoboost 6.2 V8 in the vans

YES!!!! If they made it. The standard 6.2 would be great, even the new truck 5.0. And the EcoBoost V6, now that's a lineup.

[Stumpalump]

My last P/U truck was diesel and my E350 4x4 has the V10. The diesel pulled moutain grades way better because a turbo compensates for altitude. The V10 is smooth as silk and very quiet. It runs great in every way but just not as powerfull. I love that engine for it's reliability and just how smooth and strong it runs. My understanding is that the 7.3 is the best diesel but they are very loud in the cabin and the make the drivers compartment hot. Some say that the 7.3 sportsmobile was the holy grail. They are rare and owners are extra proud of them $$$. My V10 milage towing the Jeep on a trailer is 11-13. The 7.3 is detuned from the factory to reduce the heat. Modifing with tuners may not be a good plan. The new V10's in the P/U's get the very strong 3 valve engine but the vans all still get the proven and very reliable old 2 valve v10. Anyway if you find a deal on a clean v10 then jump on it. The 03 and newer have more threads for the spark plugs but if you find an old one with the original plugs then they are OK. The plugs seem to be a problem only after a monkey changed the plugs. Do your research before attempting or letting anybody touch the plugs on any of the Ford gas engines. The last thing is the rear end gears. Mine are 3.73 and they suck. If you can find one with the factory 4.30's then that would be good. If you buy with 3.73's and tow often then budget 4.56 gears with tires 33" or higher. Mike at 5 star is the guru when you want a V10 tune to compensate for tires weight ect. I don't know what he does to the transmission tuning but it's like getting and extra gear out of it. Good luck with your search!

[Toolman]

Here's an update...

I got approved to by an RV.. however the value of a SM isn't in KBB and the NADA value is far from correct due to the fact that SM offers features that aren't in NADA's system .. the big one 4X4 conversion, so the credit union will only finance a third of the cost of the rig.. bummer.
I found one that is possible keeper however it's a 5.4L V8 and it's not going to pull my Jeep very easily. I really like it, it's done close to what I would do if I was going to build one. I've checked out a couple of conversions done by SM and I'm underwhelmed by the creativity that has gone into the design and type of materials used and more importantly the waste of space.. I don't really like the PH top and I would probably rip everything out and redesign it from the floor up, so I've decided to find a low mileage E350 Super Duty 7.3L Diesel and build it my way.. sure it won't have the name on the side but it will be done the way I want it and it will be done right. I've done enough rock crawling to know that up travel is very important and the same things are being said by the guys who own Quigly's or Quadravan's .. they pretty much ride on the bump stops when off roading which concerns me. I want a cushy ride off road, after all that's why I want a 4 wheel drive van.

So the search is on for a sweet 7.3L Diesel.

"VAN-DEBTA" is going to be built by me.. It may take a little longer than I'd like but it will get done.

Any advice is always welcome.
Thanks for helping me out with my decision..

Disclaimer... I like Sportsmobile's and I would buy one if it was newer and the 4X4 conversion was done with leafs and an Atlas 2, but I can't get the value correct for the financing..

[UHAULER]

I just saw this on Sac Craigslist.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/rvs/2037078990.html

[Maximus Ram]

I just saw this on Sac Craigslist.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/rvs/2037078990.html

Hmm, I saw that one, also...first thought was...ohhh 4x4 conversion prospect:)

[18seeds]

.. sure it won't have the name on the side but it will be done the way I want it and it will be done right.

and you just saved yourself $20k for the van built the way you want it. Win-Win. Good luck.

My 2003 Quigley 7.3 build has just started :)