Anyone bring firearms with them on trips?

[kodiak1232003]

we usually do.

12guage 870 shotgun in a quick release encosed action lock...fits in the trunk of my dd.

trying to get a setup for my ruger sp101, too, as its a great packin' pistol. fairly light, very stout, shoots .38 special or .357mag.

thinkin' about a "gunvault" lockbox that is opened much like my longgun lock...

has a five button keypad with key override. very cool. completely safe to completely ready for use in about 2seconds....not bad!

here's the gunvault...bolts to anything sturdy...

[kodiak1232003]

here's the longgun lock...

completely covers the action and springs open automatically when keyed.

i think they discontinued them, but you can still find em on ebay.


both these are legal in commie-fornia for auto-carry, and both can be dismounted from their brackets to carry into a hotel or to a campsite/tent etc...

we had ours in our tent in glacier national park (shhh!) when there were reports of bears, wolves and mountain lions within a mile of camp..lol. no problem at all. it just sat perfectly safe all week with no issues. (you should know that its legal to have a gun in your car, unloaded and locked in a national park, but you can't take it out of your car. we figured we'd rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6, and put it in our tent with us.)


edit: oh, and i've had mine for 3 or 4 years now, with absolutely no problems. i change the battery once a year or so, but with probably 100 to 150 openings per year, i haven't had any battery issues(duracell). if i did i could just use the key anyways.

[Willman]

we usually do.

12guage 870 shotgun in a quick release encosed action lock...fits in the trunk of my dd.

trying to get a setup for my ruger sp101, too, as its a great packin' pistol. fairly light, very stout, shoots .38 special or .357mag.

thinkin' about a "gunvault" lockbox that is opened much like my longgun lock...

has a five button keypad with key override. very cool. completely safe to completely ready for use in about 2seconds....not bad!

here's the gunvault...bolts to anything sturdy...

I pack a firearm myself in my rig.....never know what you will cross out their..I also think of the firearm as personal protection, survial just incase you need to hunt for food.......

:REOutCampFire03:

Good idea on the locking box...I bet this will provide a great piece of mind!

:REOutShootinghunter

[Scott Brady]

I used to, then I started visiting countries were I could not (legally). Now I feel very safe in my own country and don't feel the need in most cases.

Just a personal thing. I prefered the experience without a firearm more than with.

When Stephanie and I travel solo, I sometimes bring a firearm along, as protecting her is my first responsibility. I have a sweet HK .45 with Galco leather.

I like guns and own a bunch of them. I am cool with hunting too (for food, not killing for sport), and would like to put in for Elk this year.

[Willman]

I am cool with hunting too (for food, not killing for sport), and would like to put in for Elk this year.

Boy do i have the place for you!!! The in-laws have some land here with a bunch of Elk roaming around!

We'll have to plan something for ya Scott!

:ar15: :cow: = :chowtime:

:ylsmoke:

[Scott Brady]

We'll have to plan something for ya Scott!


Oh man! Count me in... Mmmm, I can taste the Elk ribeye's now.

[Willman]

Oh man! Count me in... Mmmm, I can taste the Elk ribeye's now.

We'll have to chat at the up and coming Trophy!

[kodiak1232003]

I used to, then I started visiting countries were I could not (legally). Now I feel very safe in my own country and don't feel the need in most cases.

Just a personal thing. I prefered the experience without a firearm more than with.

When Stephanie and I travel solo, I sometimes bring a firearm along, as protecting her is my first responsibility. I have a sweet HK .45 with Galco leather.

I like guns and own a bunch of them. I am cool with hunting too (for food, not killing for sport), and would like to put in for Elk this year.


yeah, i know how you feel...been all around europe and china mostly and coming back here made home feel very safe..lol.

if my shotty and my revolver ride around with us in our travels for the rest of our lives and NEVER are deployed against a two-legged predator, that is just fine by me.

i find that its just a peace of mind thing, especially with the way that (unfortunately) we are encroaching on the habitats of large predators. not their fault (bears, mtn. lions, etc..), they're just doing their thing....

they're just not going to be doing there thing with MY family...lol :ar15:

[goodtimes]

If I am travelling with a group...then I leave the firearms at home. When I travel solo, I usually take a handgun.

[DaktariEd]

Yup...I usually bring along my .45 Colt 1911.
I usually travel solo and had the dubious distinction of being run off the road by some rednecks years ago. Now I am better prepared for self defence.

:sombrero:

[Skillet]

Sig .40 hides securely in the rig when solo with the GF. As Scott said, first responsibility.

When in groups, I am not worried about it.

However, when we go with the intention of shooting, we bring a little more :ar15:

[flyingwil]

If I am travelling with a group...then I leave the firearms at home. When I travel solo, I usually take a handgun.

I do the same. I take a 9mm not that it would do much harm... mostly make a bang and scare away (at least I would hope!)

[stevenmd]

Always carry a shotgun. Hope to never use it. But my wife and children are more important to me than a cougar and other wildcats we have here in California. Although I am aware that we are on their territory and I try to tread as lightly as possible, not disturbing the natural wildlife, you never know what you may come across or what may come across me. Like kodiak1232003 said, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 if it meant the safety of my family.

[Kermit]

You never know what you'll run into out there...

http://www.ibistek.com/images/viper-gallery/4.jpg

[Martinjmpr]

Depends on what I'm doing and where I'm going. For day trips, normally, no. For overnights, I normally take a .357 for protection. Of course, last time I went camping (last year) one of the activities we planned was a little target shooting so I brought a representative sample of my "arsenal" along with appropriate ammo and targets (2l plastic bottles filled with water were the best, and much easier to clean up than glass.) I generally don't keep the pistol loaded until I stop for the night. Once I get my CCW (should be this week) I'll probably pack whenever I leave town.

[Robthebrit]

I don't carry firearms ever. Probably wouldn't be the best thing, I am 37 years old and I have never shot or even held a gun. Not that I am against guns, i grew up in the UK where you simply don't see them, its one of those things I never think about.

Rob

[mountainpete]

I carry fire-water and bear spray, but not firearms :p

Maybe it's because of being in Canada and the strict regulations we have here, but I just don't see the value of carrying a handgun when travelling the backcountry.

What is the use of a handgun in the bush? To tick off a bear before he crushes your pelvis? There are not many guns that are truly effective against a charging grizzly, not to mention the time it takes to load, aim and fire as the pain train comes growling towards you at the speed of a horse. It's safer and more effective to take preventative measures and use bear spray.

I have considered taking a shotgun or rifle with me, but the intent is always as just fun target practice versus any level of protection. But in the end, I don't think that I could ever justify the expense and hassle.

Pete

[kodiak1232003]

You never know what you'll run into out there...

http://www.ibistek.com/images/viper-gallery/4.jpg


bwahahahhahahaha....:victory:


thats it...thats the one!!!

[slooowr6]

Where do you guys keep the hand gun? Isn't it illegal to have firearm in national parks and forest? Any one in CA has firearm with them when on trips where do you keep them? From where I came from it's illegal to own a gun but I did learn to use them when serving in military. :PROFSheriffHL:

[DaveInDenver]

Yeah, even if you're carrying a .357, got nuthin' on these guys.

[kodiak1232003]

Where do you guys keep the hand gun? Isn't it illegal to have firearm in national parks and forest? Any one in CA has firearm with them when on trips where do you keep them? From where I came from it's illegal to own a gun but I did learn to use them when serving in military. :PROFSheriffHL:

i know longguns are legal in national parks. how to transport them is on their website..... not sure about handguns, but i think its legal if they're locked and you are going to "do some shooting" on your trip and are bringing it for that reason...

longguns are really exempt from any type of law, you can have them in a gun rack in cali if you want, but i prefer mine locked and out of sight with a couple rounds on the buttstock sidesaddle. (also need to be locked in nat. parks)


like i said, i'm working on a handgun lockbox, and that includes research into legality. i'll post up specifics when i find them....

[ducktapeguy]

I was under the impression that the state laws supersede the National Parks regulations, at least in CA. That basically means you can't carry in open, must be locked, unloaded, in the trunk for transport, etc. I don't think you can legally shoot in any of the National parks, but that doesn't mean you can't be transporting it through the park. National Forest and National Seashores are different though, and the rules can vary from place to place. Best way to be sure is to call ahead and ask the rangers because the rules change often. Sometimes they say no firearms allowed, sometimes they just want to know if you're hunting, and other times they just dont' care either way. I would never risk carrying in a foreign country though, just too many legal hassles to deal with.

I'm glad this topic came up, because I've always wanted to ask the same thing, but didn't want to start a debate. I never used to carry anything with me, but I've recently started to carry a firearm, and usually only if I'm going to a remote area with just a couple of us. I don't know if it's because I felt invincible when I was younger, or more paranoid as I get older, but I don't feel as safe as I used to when I go camping. I would usually keep it locked in the car or in the tent with me at night, and I'm the only one that knows I have it. For large groups I feel safe enough without it.

And for those people from other countries, it's not the wild animals that that I am worried about. It's some of the people that are out there that make me nervous. I can deal with bears and mountain lions and whatever else lives out there as long as I keep my distance. But sometimes you just can't avoid the criminal element, even in the backcountry.

[Willman]

You never know what you'll run into out there...

http://www.ibistek.com/images/viper-gallery/4.jpg


That's what i'm talking about!!!!

You can do just about anything with a 50. cal!!!!

:elkgrin:

[Kermit]

That's what i'm talking about!!!!

You can do just about anything with a 50. cal!!!!

:elkgrin:
Could you imagine driving in traffic with that.

There was a a guy years ago with a real Humvee H1, with a dummie .50 cal, that used to drive around. I'll bet he got some looks of fear.

[BigAl]

Ever since I saw The Hills Have Eyes:Wow1: Mutants are scary

Seriously, I carry a S&W airlight hammerless revolver in .38 with me when I'm out alone. It's only 11oz. I run into 'characters' all the time in the old central PA stripmines but never once had a problem. Hell, I probably qualify as a character:elkgrin: .

I did run into a drunk once when dirtbiking. Me and 2 buddies were doing this hill climb and these 2 drunks stopped to watch. One drunk started calling me Mr.Fancy Pants b/c of my riding gear. He wanted to fight. His buddy, who wasn't quite so drunk, kept telling him to shut up b/c he knew they were about to get a beating. We just left. We still laugh about that guy.

[Kermit]

One drunk started calling me Mr.Fancy Pants b/c of my riding gear
Ha ha...I call 'em Clown Suits, I ride too....some of our gear is funnay looking.

I was call a giant marshmallow the other day, because of the mostly white gear...I am like "Hey! It's the desert you giant strawberry short cake!...I need to wear white"

[DaveInDenver]

Ha ha...I call 'em Clown Suits, I ride too....some of our gear is funnay looking.

I was call a giant marshmallow the other day, because of the mostly white gear...I am like "Hey! It's the desert you giant strawberry short cake!...I need to wear white"
Dudes, you guys don't know the half of. Try riding in spandex!

[Haggis]

In State I always have a shotgun in the truck, and even though I have a carry permit it's never loaded and it's cased (don't want it banged up). Ammo is copper-coated 00 Buck and mag 3 1/2" #2. The rest of the time it depends on where I'm headed and what state or states I'm going to be in (Mass is one state you have to consider). But I always have a good straight knife and axe on all camping and forest runs.

[Bergger]

I'm a cop so I almost always have a pistol in my pocket. Usually a Kahr PM9, very, very compact.

[Kermit]

Dudes, you guys don't know the half of. Try riding in spandex!
I have, that is why I quit road roading. :p

I only do the baggie shorts, hairy leg, mountain bike thing now.

[BogusBlake]

I'm pretty much with the consensus- I pack when alone but not with a larger group. I've seen some folks out there who I know weren't hiking for fun.

I carry a Ruger Single Six .22 Mag. I'm like Will in thinking the bark will be worse than the bite for scaring off preditors. I transport it in a holster in the unlocked glove box. If I leave the truck, it goes on my hip.

Most times, I also stick my Marlin model 39A (lever action .22) behind the back seat in a case with a trigger lock. If I had to hunt some dinner, this would be a much more efficient tool.

I used to have a Henry AR-7 takedown .22 that lived in the locked toolbox of my old truck, but I sold that a while ago.

[maximumrob]

I never have carried a gun with me on a hiking trip unless I'm hunting. Otherwise, I carry a 6" fixed blade knife with me EVERY TIME we're hiking. Between the kah-nife and my pit bull, we can keep the wife safe except for the most extreme circumstances (assailant w/ gun, charging bear, wolf pack, etc), and neither will get me a ticket or a lecture from a park ranger.

I must admit, I have yet to even spot a wolf pack in any wilderness environment I've been in, such as KS, MO, AR, OK, or West TX. ;) We've also not yet been assaulted by any creeps with guns, though I've occasionally heard banjos on some forays in to the Ozarks...

Now, if we lived in grizzly country, like CANADA, I'd be packing a Ruger Alaskan!

[kodiak1232003]

this is from Glacier national park's website:

Individuals are also reminded that firearms are NOT permitted anywhere in the park’s backcountry. Firearms brought through Glacier National Park must be unloaded, broken down (temporarily inoperable) cased, and stored out of sight and reach, with ammunition separated from weapons while in the park [36 C.F.R. 2.4(a)(3)].


"backcountry" means that if you hike out of a car-park, etc onto a trail...you aren't supposed to carry.

we car-camped in the very upper park and therefore were not in the "backcountry".

like i said, its bear country and i'd rather be prepared...:sunflower

just fyi...

[BajaTaco]

My hands are registered weapons. I have a concealed carry permit for the winter season.

:victory:

[stevenmd]

my pit bull
I bred them for about 18 years. Great breed. Don't have them anymore due to lack of time to do them proper. Best breed of dog I have ever owned. Very loyal, obedient, gentle, great with kids. Now I'm sad! I miss Miha and Rosie!

[TACODOC]

My hands are registered weapons. I have a concealed carry permit for the winter season.

:victory:

Nice. ;)

[Martyn]

Have never felt the need to travel with a firearm, and I've been to some interesting places, Beirut, Libya, Namibia / South West, Zimbabwe, and South Africa when they were lit up like fireworks.

I have seen on many occasions what happens to people who pull a handgun and find the people they are confronting are slightly better armed with AK's. For some reason the thought of traveling armed seems to attract negative attention, while unarmed is disarming.

[Colorado Ron]

Dont usually find a need for one. If its wildlife, theres ways to avoid conflict. If its a person, and I need it that bad, I just take it from the guy pointing it at me!:gunt: :REOutArchery02:

[maximumrob]

I bred them for about 18 years. Great breed. Don't have them anymore due to lack of time to do them proper. Best breed of dog I have ever owned. Very loyal, obedient, gentle, great with kids. Now I'm sad! I miss Miha and Rosie!

Lexie is my jogging buddy, our hiking buddy, my wife's portable heater, a playmate for the cat, and the child that goes on road trips with us. She loves kids, women, and most men. She's confident when strangers approach us on walks (tailwags), but when she's alone with my wife, no human or animal is permitted to get near. She only has three drawbacks: 1) she only gets along with about a third of the dogs she meets (duh, she's a bulldog!), 2) pits are single coat dogs so they shiver in the mildest of weather, and 3) she can't be left outside alone in a yard because she can and will jump a 6' fence. We want her indoors with us anyway!

Funny thing is, we didn't trim her ears and very few people are even able to recognize a "horrible, vicious pit bull dog."

[robert]

I carry most of the time anyways so I feel kind of naked without it (not as naked as I do without a pocketknife though). It's just another tool to do a different job. Most of the time it's the same S&W642 I normally carry, occasionally it's something different.

I keep one of these in the truck for securing it if need be (places I can't carry).
http://www.center-of-mass.com/

I can't say as there's much walking on four legs that worries me, it's the drunk rednecks that I don't care for. I tend to travel alone most of the time and it's difficult to get far off the road on the east coast; rednecks seem to like to drive their monster mudslingers down the same roads to drink beer and create bonfires.

Yeah, I've been out the country where I couldn't carry too.

[DesertRose]

My hands are registered weapons. I have a concealed carry permit for the winter season.

:victory:


:)

Jonathan says my elbows should be registered.

[DesertRose]

Have never felt the need to travel with a firearm, and I've been to some interesting places, Beirut, Libya, Namibia / South West, Zimbabwe, and South Africa when they were lit up like fireworks.

I have seen on many occasions what happens to people who pull a handgun and find the people they are confronting are slightly better armed with AK's. For some reason the thought of traveling armed seems to attract negative attention, while unarmed is disarming.

In those situations, Martyn, it is not remotely smart to be armed! I don't know about Lebanon, Libya, or south Africa, but Nairobi is such an awful place, especially for a woman. You have to be really careful driving around the city - try not to come to complete stops, keep the doors locked, and if possible have a guard with you. At the place where I stay, out off the Magadi Road south of Karen, there are armed (AKs), drugged-out gangs that do the usual rob, rape, and pillage, so our homes are fortresses. Everyone wears panic buttons around chains on their necks and the homeowners pay for a private security checkpoint and radio relay. I hate it because I feel so helpless. A friend is suggesting I learn Krav Maga, but really - a 120 lb woman against 4-6 or more armed druggies hell-bent for no good?

Anyway, I solve the problem by not staying there if I can help it, preferring to camp in the bush! I always feel safer out with four-legged critters and our Maasai friends as guards (out where they still carry their spears). Seriously, nobody likes to mess with those guys.

At home and when travelling in the US I do carry - I have a CCW for my HKP7. Why? When I've been out alone hiking, twice I've been confronted by (real) bad guys and once had to pull my weapon, which I absolutely am sure saved me from bad intent (real bad). When it's legal and the situation warrants, I prefer to carry - I am not going to be a victim.

At home, we've got a shotgun and buckshot. Why? We have no neighbors, the sheriff takes 30 min to an hour to get to us, and that's if we have phone reception at the time. I feel much much safer here than in any town, but if there is trouble (we do live in high-alert drug trafficking area), I don't want to be a victim. Druggies running from border patrol have hurt and terrorized more than a few folks down in the valley.

Important takehome lesson, though: NO ONE should carry unless they are willing to shoot/kill someone. A gun shouldn't be thought of as something to "just to scare someone off" with, because as Martyn says, it can lead to worse things and if you're not willng/prepared to step over that line, it's always bad news. When I pulled mine and told the guy who had followed me onto the trail (and who had taken off his clothes and made his intentions clear) to back off NOW or I'd shoot him, I wasn't kidding and he knew it - he took off (which later was funny, seeing a naked guy running through the San Pedro River).

Just something to think about.

[Skillet]

For some reason the thought of traveling armed seems to attract negative attention, while unarmed is disarming.

I have heard this sentiment before and it needs some splainin'.

If you travel with a firearm, and you brandish it or always have it where others can see it, then I agree, a controversial item like a gun can bring on some "negative attention".

However, if you carry a gun for emergencies (bears, meth addict gold miners in the Plumas, etc) and you keep it private, how can it possibly bring on negative attention?

I was traveling with someone a while back and somehow it came up that there was a pistol locked in the back. His reaction was that I was just asking for trouble with that thing. As if its very existence was some sort of "negative juju".

Is this a metaphysical karma laden thing? What am I missing?

Granted, if you are sitting in a populated campground flashing your piece, things can unravel.

[Martyn]

I have heard this sentiment before and it needs some splainin'.

If you travel with a firearm, and you brandish it or always have it where others can see it, then I agree, a controversial item like a gun can bring on some "negative attention".

However, if you carry a gun for emergencies (bears, meth addict gold miners in the Plumas, etc) and you keep it private, how can it possibly bring on negative attention?

I was traveling with someone a while back and somehow it came up that there was a pistol locked in the back. His reaction was that I was just asking for trouble with that thing. As if its very existence was some sort of "negative juju".

Is this a metaphysical karma laden thing? What am I missing?

Granted, if you are sitting in a populated campground flashing your piece, things can unravel.

I think "Karma Laden" and "negative juju" explain the situation exactly :)

I gain my experience from traveling the same road as others and having a positive experience, while others who are armed travel the road and experience violence. It has happened many times and I don't have a scientific explanation just a feeling of why it happens.

The essence of the argument for me revolves around the attitude and thought process that some who is armed has. Even when the weapon is concealed or locked in the trunk the person behaves slightly differently when placed in a situation where they start to feel uncomfortable or threatened. I think the other party or the group sense or see this and their reaction is also different. It as if on meeting the hairs on the back of both groups start to raise, both get aggressive or protective and the situation turns negative.

In contrast an unarmed person meeting another person or group may portray themselves as friendly, interested, or disinterested and just pass through.

I don't mean to imply that this works in every situation, but it may in fact get you out of most situations before they ever become a problem, or become violent.

Rosann brings up a situation where the other party obviously had bad intent and portraying herself as friendly, interested, or disinterested would not have been the best thing to do.

Rosann also bring up the very serious statement of not drawing your weapon unless you are willing to use it with deadly force. Having been placed in this situation many years ago and having that experience change me for the rest of my life I choose not to carry a weapon.

[xcmountain80]

I was raised to be nice until you can't anymore. We always drove for our vacations whether to the FL keys , or snow skiing in WV, and lets not forget the trip from FL to Washington. So needless to say, I became a driver too. I also am the type to be prepared for the worst, always! I have a concealed weapons permit and carry when I travel. I also mountain bike in remote areas and carry. I have never had to pull my weapon thank goodness. I dont want to harm anyone, but if it's me or them sorry looks like I make the news. As far as do I have it on offroad trips? Yes. Same rules apply offroad as they do in the open sea, have you ever seen a pirate? You better hope your more heavily armed and in a faster boat. No one but you is going to help you and it is the same in the middle of no where offroad. And for goodness sakes people don't flash it around, that isn't a good idea at all and does invite the unwanted attention. As my rule goes DONT PULL IT UNLESS YOUR GOING TO USE IT PERIOD!

Aaron

[DaktariEd]

I was traveling with someone a while back and somehow it came up that there was a pistol locked in the back. His reaction was that I was just asking for trouble with that thing. As if its very existence was some sort of "negative juju".

Is this a metaphysical karma laden thing? What am I missing?


Could be hoplophobia...
:gunt:

[BigAl]

I was raised to be nice until you can't anymore...

You were raised by Patrick Swayze??:)
Roadhouse is a classic, complete with drunk rednecks in monstor trucks.

[J_L]

I was raised to be nice until you can't anymore. We always drove for our vacations whether to the FL keys , or snow skiing in WV, and lets not forget the trip from FL to Washington. So needless to say, I became a driver too. I also am the type to be prepared for the worst, always! I have a concealed weapons permit and carry when I travel. I also mountain bike in remote areas and carry. I have never had to pull my weapon thank goodness. I dont want to harm anyone, but if it's me or them sorry looks like I make the news. As far as do I have it on offroad trips? Yes. Same rules apply offroad as they do in the open sea, have you ever seen a pirate? You better hope your more heavily armed and in a faster boat. No one but you is going to help you and it is the same in the middle of no where offroad. And for goodness sakes people don't flash it around, that isn't a good idea at all and does invite the unwanted attention. As my rule goes DONT PULL IT UNLESS YOUR GOING TO USE IT PERIOD!

Aaron
Aaron has hit the bullseye. When you are out in the boonies, it's dog eat dog. While the vast majority of folks you run across out there are just people having fun, "pirates" do exist. And his last sentence is more than a rule, it's gospel.

[Skillet]

Aaron has hit the bullseye. When you are out in the boonies, it's dog eat dog. While the vast majority of folks you run across out there are just people having fun, "pirates" do exist. And his last sentence is more than a rule, it's gospel.


x 3

[Lost Canadian]

I do not object to other people carrying guns out on a trip if they so choose, but personally I do not see guns as effective instruments for self-defence.

Armed with a gun versus multiple assailants, my honest assessment is odds are not in my favour. Confronting an animal, still not very good, in fact bear spray has been shown and proven to be far more effective at minimizing the likelihood of injury to the person. Versus a person with a knife, demonstrations show the knife usually wins. I think Australian police have a video circulating the net that illustrates this. Versus another gun, flip a coin.

I think guns instill fear which may be their saving grace as far as self-defence goes, but for practical application once engaged, if safe effective withdrawal of ones self from an incident is what is being sought then personally I think there are better tools.

I typcally carry bear spray and a knife with me while hiking. Of course if I'm on a hunting trip then I take my trusty savage 111.:chowtime:

[Tucson T4R]

I never carried when I was younger but after having a few negative experiences with running into drug runners in the desert and a couple just plain whacked folks in the back country. I now carry when I go out.

For personal protection, my choice is my custom built 1911 .45 with tritium night sights and hydroshock self defense ammo. I figure if your going to use it, you might as well have something with some knock down power. I hope I never have to use it, but it's good to know it's there if needed. :gunt:

[xcmountain80]

I thought about the 1911 but ended up with the S&W 4566 tactical. shorter frame than the 1911 but just as rugged rugged, also a 1st gen glock 19 9mm, both using hydro shock. Good ammo for the purpose.

Aaron

[Haggis]

Versus a person with a knife, demonstrations show the knife usually wins. I think Australian police have a video circulating the net that illustrates this. Versus another gun, flip a coin.


For the past 25 years I've been training with edged weapons and feel confident in my abilites with a blade. I acheived the level of Sword Master in the Leckenuecher schoola of war sword, training under Johann Schiemdbergur, and trained in the uses of axe, spear, staff and assorted grappling moves that intergrate with Medievel Swordsmanship. I have a Black Belt in Haidong Gumdo (Korean Sword fighting), and have sparred in many live steel matches. Yet I'm a firm believer in th old adage "Don't bring a Knife to a Gun Fight." Edge weapons take a lot of skill to be used effectively even against similiar weapons and it takes alot of fortitude to close with an opponent and then to actually strike with the intent to inflict damage on your opponent. Many Pull their strike. Gun's are easier to learn, and allow the user to keep a distance from their foe. Unless you are extremely fast or extremely lucky, that bullet is going to reach you first. The main thing in any confrontation is to be extremely aware of your surroundings and to remain calm in your actions, don't be aggressevive or assertive until there is no alternative and then commit to your course wether it is attack or flight without hestiation.

If you carry a gun, be proficient with it. Practice,practice,practice young Grasshopper.

[Bergger]

If you carry a gun, be proficient with it. Practice,practice,practice young Grasshopper.

This I agree with 100%. Unless you know how to use it please do not bring it. Using it does not mean I can take it to the range and shoot a target under ideal conditions. You must know how to shoot and reload it under extreme stress. And you better also know the laws. Pulling a gun out for intimidation can easily put you in jail. I also would like to reply on a previous comment about people who carry guns behave or act different. If this happens then that person should not be carry the gun in the first place.

[xcmountain80]

You are absolutely right, if you arent familiar with it, it can be pretty useless. If you use it for intimidation you are going to jail for sure. Like I said before dont pull it unless your going to use it. I dont feel any bigger because I have a weapon, its a last resort. I will protect my family and myself end of story. If you wheeled with me you would have no idea, I dont mention it, I dont show it, but bet your *** if we get in a jam we have a fighting chance to get out.

Aaron

[Tucson T4R]

For the past 25 years I've been training with edged weapons and feel confident in my abilites with a blade. I acheived the level of Sword Master in the Leckenuecher schoola of war sword, training under Johann Schiemdbergur, and trained in the uses of axe, spear, staff and assorted grappling moves that intergrate with Medievel Swordsmanship. I have a Black Belt in Haidong Gumdo (Korean Sword fighting), and have sparred in many live steel matches. Yet I'm a firm believer in th old adage "Don't bring a Knife to a Gun Fight." Edge weapons take a lot of skill to be used effectively even against similiar weapons and it takes alot of fortitude to close with an opponent and then to actually strike with the intent to inflict damage on your opponent. Many Pull their strike. Gun's are easier to learn, and allow the user to keep a distance from their foe. Unless you are extremely fast or extremely lucky, that bullet is going to reach you first. The main thing in any confrontation is to be extremely aware of your surroundings and to remain calm in your actions, don't be aggressevive or assertive until there is no alternative and then commit to your course wether it is attack or flight without hestiation.

If you carry a gun, be proficient with it. Practice,practice,practice young Grasshopper.

Well said. :bowdown: I studied martial arts under Jerry Pidington and competed in competition in my younger days. Your outlook on understanding your weapon of choice and being an expert in it's use is very true.

First choice is always understand your surroundings and avoid conflict whenever possible. Bottom line...walk away......... If you are forced into choosing conflict, commit 110% percent and get it done.

[kodiak1232003]

For the past 25 years I've been training with edged weapons and feel confident in my abilites with a blade. I acheived the level of Sword Master in the Leckenuecher schoola of war sword, training under Johann Schiemdbergur, and trained in the uses of axe, spear, staff and assorted grappling moves that intergrate with Medievel Swordsmanship. I have a Black Belt in Haidong Gumdo (Korean Sword fighting), and have sparred in many live steel matches. Yet I'm a firm believer in th old adage "Don't bring a Knife to a Gun Fight." Edge weapons take a lot of skill to be used effectively even against similiar weapons and it takes alot of fortitude to close with an opponent and then to actually strike with the intent to inflict damage on your opponent. Many Pull their strike. Gun's are easier to learn, and allow the user to keep a distance from their foe. Unless you are extremely fast or extremely lucky, that bullet is going to reach you first. The main thing in any confrontation is to be extremely aware of your surroundings and to remain calm in your actions, don't be aggressevive or assertive until there is no alternative and then commit to your course wether it is attack or flight without hestiation.

If you carry a gun, be proficient with it. Practice,practice,practice young Grasshopper.


nice. all that really needs to be said about self defense and gun ownership. lol.

i think we are done here..!!:beer:

[Scott Brady]

I believe in a one shot class weapon only and used with proficiency and accuracy. 9mm and 38 are not good choices IMHO for self defence. Hydrostatic shock is what stops an assailant, not necessarily the number of holes.

When I travel solo with Stephanie, her safety is my #1 priority, even more than my own life, so 3,4,5 assailants are not a barrier to her protection. With years of military firearms training (AF Small Arms Expert, AF Marksman), time with Gunsite trainers etc., and thousands of rounds through my HK45 (one of the most accurate tactical pistols available) I am prepared to use it, both mentally and physically.

But, as I said earlier, I prefer not to carry it, as it changes the experience for me. I take firearm responsibility so seriously (especially when carrying concealed) that it puts me in a reserved, defensive posture. Not my style.

I also would not likely carry a weapon in an area with animals (maybe if I had little children). Again, it changes the experience for me.

[adventureduo]

Can't carry here. Kalifornia. I've never really felt good having guns around me due to the fact that i sleep walk all the time. I'd hate for there to be some sort of accident.

is there a alternative to gun carrying for the outdoorsman? Like a stun gun or pepper spray? I'd like to carry something with Yosh and I on our solo trips for sure.

[asteffes]

Can't carry here. Kalifornia. I've never really felt good having guns around me due to the fact that i sleep walk all the time. I'd hate for there to be some sort of accident.

is there a alternative to gun carrying for the outdoorsman? Like a stun gun or pepper spray? I'd like to carry something with Yosh and I on our solo trips for sure.

Pepper spray and a folding knife, perhaps? Add a bright light for nighttime... a Surefire or a Strion? I have a Strion for nighttime dog walks. It has a lithium ion rechargeable battery, and is extremely bright. I bought it with chargers for home and truck.

Regarding storing your firearms safely at home, you might consider a quick-access handgun safe that requires you to enter a code based on finger position. These usually have slots on top for your fingers to work the buttons by feel, rather than sight. You can setup a code that requires simultaneous depression of multiple buttons, so you have to be at least somewhat lucid to work it. Keep the handgun in a holster in the safe, and don't keep a round chambered. It's somewhat roundabout, but it might work for you.

[navara-au]

Guns?? must be an American thing.

It wouldn't even enter my head to take a weapon of any description with me when I go camping or go anywhere else for that mater. Cant imagine living somewhere you needed firearms for self protection......I pity you guys.

[mightymike]

The Port Arthur massacre of 28 April 1996 was a killing spree which claimed 35 lives and 37 wounded mainly at the historic Port Arthur prison colony, a popular tourist site in south-eastern Tasmania, Australia. Martin Bryant, a 28-year-old from New Town, eventually pleaded guilty to the crimes and was given 35 life sentences without possibility of parole.[1] He is now interned in HM Prison Risdon.

Keep your pity....Some of us choose not to be victims. Evil is the problem. There are mean and nasty people the world over. Sometimes I think we have more than our share (particularly this week) but I promise you we do not have a monoploly.

[navara-au]

The Port Arthur massacre of 28 April 1996 was a killing spree which claimed 35 lives and 37 wounded mainly at the historic Port Arthur prison colony, a popular tourist site in south-eastern Tasmania, Australia. Martin Bryant, a 28-year-old from New Town, eventually pleaded guilty to the crimes and was given 35 life sentences without possibility of parole.[1] He is now interned in HM Prison Risdon.

Keep your pity....Some of us choose not to be victims. Evil is the problem. There are mean and nasty people the world over. Sometimes I think we have more than our share (particularly this week) but I promise you we do not have a monoploly.

That was 11 years ago when we had lacked gun laws. Now we have better gun control hopefully it is a thing of the past.

Here's the 2002 statistics

"Gun Related Murders per 100,000 of population in 2002 (From Sunday Times)

USA 4.08

Canada 0.54

England and Wales 0.12

Scotland 0.12

Japan 0.04
.
Our calculations show that the figure for Australia is 0.25. This means that approx 16 times more Americans die from gun murders than Australians. "

You can have your guns we dont need them.

[robert]

I'd love to sit here and dispute this (there are plenty of reasons for it), but you'll never understand or accept our point of view and we'll never understand yours so we might as well agree to disagree.

[BigAl]

Guns?? must be an American thing.

It wouldn't even enter my head to take a weapon of any description with me when I go camping or go anywhere else for that mater. Cant imagine living somewhere you needed firearms for self protection......I pity you guys.

I hope you never run into this guy, I hear he's still on the loose.
http://media.movieweb.com/galleries/2909/2283/lo/cob.jpg

[Scott Brady]

I am very thankful AU is as safe as it is (you are very fortunate), but it has nothing to do with a right to carry or not. AU was very safe (statistically) before gun control. After gun control, murder rates have dropped slightly, but all other violent crime (rape, etc.) have increased, along with non-violent crimes. Your country is geographically isolated, which makes the control of illegal guns much easier. We have the longest unprotected borders in the world.

Again, it is wonderful that you live in such a safe country, but I believe that the demographics, geography and population concentrations in the US require a different approach :beer:



Quote:
The Lott-Mustard Report

John Lott and David Mustard, in connection with the University of Chicago Law School, examining crime statistics from 1977 to 1992 for all U.S. counties, concluded that the thirty-one states allowing their residents to carry concealed, had significant reductions in violent crime. Lott writes, "Our most conservative estimates show that by adopting shall-issue laws, states reduced murders by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%. If those states that did not permit concealed handguns in 1992 had permitted them back then, citizens might have been spared approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and 12,000 robberies. To put it even more simply criminals, we found, respond rationally to deterrence threats... While support for strict gun-control laws usually has been strongest in large cities, where crime rates are highest, that's precisely where right-to-carry laws have produced the largest drops in violent crimes."

[VikingVince]

just for the sake of balance:ylsmoke:
be sure to to click on the link on the bottom



Ah, the Lott/Mustard Report...

The study uses incorrect and discredited methodology. The results
of any study are influenced by the type of statistical techniques
used by the researchers. The technique used in most of Lott and
Mustard's analyses has been deemed by criminologists and econometricians
since the early 1970s to be inappropriate for this type of study. The
validity of the statistical techniques chosen by Lott and Mustard depend
on the assumption that data used in the study (such as crime rates in
neighboring counties, and crime rates in consecutive years) are not
related to each other. If, however, relationships exist, than false
findings of statistical significance will occur.

Source: Stephen Teret. Critical Commentary on a Paper by Lott and Mustard

Oh, and that whole "study" seems to have been funded by the gun industry.

http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/lottlink.htm

[Skillet]

You can have your guns we dont need them.

:rolleyes:


Guns?? must be an American thing.

It wouldn't even enter my head to take a weapon of any description with me when I go camping or go anywhere else for that mater. Cant imagine living somewhere you needed firearms for self protection......I pity you guys.

Don't pity me, my friend.

[datrupr]

OK, lets just bring this back on topic. I do carry when I go on trips. But, unless it is absolutely necessary you will never see it.

[Scott Brady]

Oh, and that whole "study" seems to have been funded by the gun industry.



Well, looks like anything we read anymore can have questionable results, huh. I would just be very surprised if a law school had questionable (dubious) intentions with its research.

I did not research that study with any depth... Oh well.

[VikingVince]

I should add that I do own guns and usually have one with me when camping, especially if I'm alone. It's a consciousness I can't get away from...and I'm not really proud of it. I grew up in America!

I think the the posts by navara-au (australia) and MountainPete (canada -earlier in the thread) reflect the enormous and significant differences in our individual, societal, and cultural attitudes and consciousness about guns. And the statistics posted by navara-au speak volumes. And our American addiction to our guns is reflected in the powerful gun lobby, which I find a bit distrubing. And as I said...I'm not necessarily proud of my own addiction. I commend the Australians and Canadians.

[Skillet]

Well, looks like anything we read anymore can have questionable results, huh.


:iagree:

There will always be "studies" funded by one side or the other with skewed results.

Sometimes we have to draw our own conclusions.

Here is a little tid-bit which might make you think...


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=409_1176853869

[VikingVince]

:rolleyes:



Don't pity me, my friend.

Are you brandishing your gun as you say that?:gunt: :ylsmoke:

navara-au has a valid point. I think the gun-toting, violent aspect of our culture is rather pitiful. As a society and culture, we would do well if we could move away from that...but I suspect we are "doomed" for some time to come.

[DesertRose]

:rolleyes:



Don't pity me, my friend.

Ibid.

Intelligent discussion and gentleman/womanly dissent and disagreement is the order of the day on this forum, not snarky judgemental misspelled comments lobbed across the waters.

And I certainly will remember your pity next time I'm hiking alone and a man tries to accost me (see my earlier post) - despite your pity, I won't: a) throw rocks at him; b) try to engage him in hand-to-hand combat; or c) try to talk him out of it by asking him if his mother was mean to him as a child.

:PROFSheriffHL:

[DesertRose]

navara-au has a valid point. I think the gun-toting, violent aspect of our culture is rather pitiful. As a society and culture, we would do well if we could move away from that...but I suspect we are "doomed" for some time to come.

I disagree, Vince. I'm gun-toting, but that in itself does not make me violent. How I choose to behave makes me violent or not - not my gun. Besides, I would not need a gun to be violent. I can build a bomb, use a knife, or poison thousands of people through a municiple water system.

Humans are violent creatures - heck, all higher animals - especially primates - are violent at times.

I personally feel it's naive to think peace ever existed in the human experience - nor ever will.

The best we can do is live our lives the best we can, act well toward our fellow man - unless he intends to do us harm, then I really can't say I'd roll over and let myself be a victim.

But that's my choice, and I would not ever make fun or denegrate someone who chooses otherwise (at least publicly):elkgrin:

[erin]

Very well said.

[Skillet]

Are you brandishing your gun as you say that?:gunt: :ylsmoke:

Absolutely not.


navara-au has a valid point. I think the gun-toting, violent aspect of our culture is rather pitiful. As a society and culture, we would do well if we could move away from that...but I suspect we are "doomed" for some time to come.

His point is valid for himself or others who do not actually enjoy shooting guns and just carry them out of fear of others with guns.

I often carry a gun simply because I want to target shoot or trap shoot.
The nice thing is, I actually have the RIGHT to do that. He does not. There is something to be said for that.

I guess, with some rights or privileges there is inherent danger or risk involved.

Let me give you another example besides a gun, how about a car. When you make cars legal, there is an inherent risk for the driver and everyone else on the road, or patrons in a market place in Santa Monica, http://www.emergency-management.net/car_crash_la.htm. As a matter of fact, WAY more people die in cars every year than they do from guns, accidental or intentional. Look it up.
Should we ban cars? Or make more laws for car ownership? No? Why? Because most people love their cars and do not relate them to "violent acts" or death, nor do they pose a real threat to the government.
From Wiki: Road traffic injuries represent about 25% of worldwide injury-related deaths (the leading cause) with an estimated 1.2 million deaths (2004) each year - (World Health Organization)

Here is another, alcohol. Another case where more people die every year in the U.S., directly or indirectly, from legal drinking than do people from illegal gun violence or accidents.

People want their cars, drink and, in this country, guns. Legality of all of these comes with risk, but it is a risk we are apparently willing to take and fight to defend.

In Oz and Canada it is just cars and drink, as the government has taken it upon themselves to relieve them of one more of their rights.

At least the governments of these countries are happy now that they do not have to worry about the general populace taking up arms against them should they start removing more of their rights.

For that, I pity him and other countries with less rights than we have here.

Rant over.

Carry on. :PROFSheriffHL:

[SOAZ]

Okay, so this is getting pretty serious and on the border of heated.

Why dont we change the discussion to say, abortion... :av-7:

(just kidding!, trying to lighten it a bit!)

There were 3 topics a creative writing teacher of mine would not let anyone write about in college. Abortion, Religion and Gun Control. People get so heated! Its not that we shouldn't talk about it, its just that it can get too heated for an offroading forum so I thought I'd lighten it a little. Can you tell I'm an American can living in a PC world when I write this big of a disclosure without even giving it a second thought! Yikes.

Seriously though, vote for what you believe and put your money and time behind what you believe.



One thing is for sure. Just like the Flame that will be exstinguished in Hiroshima when the final Nuclear weapon is disassembled... Guns aren't going anywhere.

[asteffes]

Skillet, we should hang out sometime!

[Skillet]

Skillet, we should hang out sometime!


Name the place, date and time...

I almost forgot...bring some heat.

:sombrero:

[asteffes]

Name the place, date and time...

:sombrero:

I'll PM you.

[awalter]

I guess I'm one of the few here in the SW that have no desire to carry. I have had experience with firearms both from military service & in the civilian world. I am not a hunter. I live in a large metropolitan area & have spent 30-60 days each year in the back country, both in our southwestern states & Mexico, over the past 25-30 years. My experiences have been both with small groups & solo.

Am I one of the lucky few who have never had an encounter, that I would deem necessary to want to be armed? Or are the folks that have told us of their experiences & their need to carry, the unlucky few?

I do admit to having a few encouters that I felt uneasy about, but turned out to be perfectly innocent. I blamed the uneasiness on my own paranoia.

Again, this is my choice & I do not begrudge others their choice.

I guess my desire for a society where folks don't feel the need to carry is too idealistic.

Vince, just take the next step & leave it at home. Try it, you might like it.

Al

[Robthebrit]

Like I posted earlier I don't understand the whole gun thing, but I guess I never will, I want to live my entire life without ever touching one. The problems I see with guns are accidents and knee jerk reactions when you are angry. If there are no guns its a lot harder to get angry and shoot somebody in a rampage. For example, if you kill somebody in the UK with a gun its first degree murder, the fact you had the illegal gun or had to go and find an illegal gun shows all the intent necessary.

If a confrontation occurs in the US in the middle of nowhere it has a far higher chance of turning violent. The fact you have a gun is almost irrelevent as the people you are going to meet probably see the world the same way as you, they are almost certainly going to have guns. This alone gives any confrontation a different set of ground rules in the US than anywhere else I have been in the world. In addition, you are not necessilary going to win in a gun battle and are just as likely to get killed as the other guy. Whoever posted earlier that peoples attitues are different when they have a gun is bang on the money, your attitude may not be different when its friendly but when it starts to go sour then its more likely to shows - if it never shows you'll never use it. Somebody without a gun will respond very differently under bad situations. I would rather hone my skills in not having a gun and defuse the situtation via other means or remove myself from the situation, these are skills you can take anywhere. Once you leave the US your guns are of no use.

For all you people who carry guns how many times have you used them? I am guessing nobody has ever used one so am I any worse off by not having a gun? I have met my fair share of threatening and competely crazy people in the boonies but never felt threatened enough to do anything about it, sure they have been offensive and shouting things at the wife but you let that go, wave to them and keep similing. In this situation there were multiple people, stopping would of been asking for trouble and a gun would of been of no use.

With this in mind its a pity americans have to think that way, compared to most people I have met alot of them are more paranoid and worry about the extreme what if's - for example all the coments above about I have a gun to protect my wife or whatever. While thats very nobel where is the line between being paranoid and being prepared? My wife used to work in Compton, she don't need no help.

By the way I hope this didn't offend anybody. I wanted to say how I see things being from a different country but having lived here for 12 years (gives me a unique perspective). While I am 100% against guns I not saying you shouldn't have one, I 100% respect your rights to have a gun. I don't think I'll ever understand why.

Lets keep it friendly.

Rob

[VikingVince]

I disagree, Vince. I'm gun-toting, but that in itself does not make me violent. How I choose to behave makes me violent or not - not my gun. Besides, I would not need a gun to be violent. I can build a bomb, use a knife, or poison thousands of people through a municiple water system.

Humans are violent creatures - heck, all higher animals - especially primates - are violent at times.

I personally feel it's naive to think peace ever existed in the human experience - nor ever will.

The best we can do is live our lives the best we can, act well toward our fellow man - unless he intends to do us harm, then I really can't say I'd roll over and let myself be a victim.

But that's my choice, and I would not ever make fun or denegrate someone who chooses otherwise (at least publicly):elkgrin:

My comment and opinion goes alot deeper than the simple statement I made. Did you notice that I said I also am a gun-toter? And that in itself does not make me violent either. That's not really the point I was trying to make.

I'm commenting on the gun culture in this country and the disposition to violence. No other modern, "civilized" nation equals our homicide rate per capita or our gun ownership per capita. Why? Part of the answer, I believe, lies in our heritage and the cultural mindset that is consciously and unconsciously passed on from generation to generation, i.e.our nation was born of violence, our ancestors committed systematic genocide of native peoples, the Wild West was 'tamed with guns' and is embedded in our mythology...We the people... believe in guns more than any other modern nation. This mindset can even be seen in the words of Pres. GWB, "Bring 'em on..." which he has since publicly acknowledged was a mistake and only contributed to violent reprisal. There are many other historic social, economic, and political factors contributing to our cultural disposition to violence which is not equalled elsewhere...I've only pointed to what might be some of the roots for this country...other than man's basic nature.

I'm not so sure that it's naive to think peace will someday exist in the human experiece. Philosophers have grappeled with that notion for centuries. I tend to think that mankind has made progress in that direction, albeit at a snails pace over centuries. Where will man be 500 - 1000 years from now? It seems to me that centuries of history show that man is slowly evolving - the decline of absolute monarchy, the Magna Carta, the rise of democracy and self-determination, habeas corpus, abolition of slavery, decline of communism, the beginnings of women's equality, the slow growth of polytheism....all these movements lead me to believe that mankind is slowly moving towards a more enlightened existence and is not stagnating or regressing. In light of this progression of man's consciousness as reflected in these movements and institutions, could living in peace be somewhere down the road, albeit hundreds of years? I think it could. I think history shows us there is hope Ultimately, that's why I believe it's important to think about our culture of guns and violence...just as we think "green" to save Mother Earth for future generations...what can we think and do to save us from each other?

In the meantime, I guess we'll both still be packing. :smilies27 :smilies27

[teotwaki]

I'll carry a Glock .45, or Winchester shotgun or scoped .308


Side note:
Looks as if it took about 44 posts before this thread started going "political" rather than keeping it to "I carry this brand X firearm" or "I don't carry because I am a confident person".

I will carry when and where I feel it is prudent (urban/suburban/boondocks). I will carry whatever legal firearm is appropriate for the area (pistol/shotgun/rifle) and situation. Knives, clubs, pepper spray and other alternatives are always optional. I am at peace with a concious decision to facilitate someone else giving up their life while attempting to end mine through direct physical harm or theft of automobile, food or water that is critical to sustainment of my life.

Thread hijackers PLEASE go start a new Political/Off-Topic Guns Are Bad Rant and we can rehash all of the tired all arguments. This thread should be at least on-topic of Carry or Don't Carry.

[DesertRose]

[this Comment Moved]

New Thread Started In General Discussion

[DesertRose]

Thread hijackers PLEASE go start a new Political/Off-Topic Guns Are Bad Rant and we can rehash all of the tired all arguments. This thread should be at least on-topic of Carry or Don't Carry.

I'll start another thread, but I thought that we were conducting our discussion with a lot of thought and gentleman/womanly politeness.

As such, I thought the discussion was worthwhile, not tired.

I'll just take my HK97 off now and sulk in the corner . . . I mean start another thread.

[Haggis]

I was enjoying this thread, it was interesting to read what choice of weapon or method of self defense people considered for their protetion. And I liked gettin' a read on every one's thoughts on the responsibilities involved in carring a firearm. I thought that there was a good sense of non hostile readiness, I don't remember Rambo checkin' in ready to gun everybody down. If you want to have a discussion on why many of us hold tightly to our rights and will not freely give them away start a thread and let's have a friendly disscussion, but don't pity this poor backwoods hick.

Now time to go out with my daughter and shoot some rounds off, Junior Turkey season is Sat. and the girl wants to get some more range time in.:ar15:

[awalter]

This thread started with "Anyone bring firearms on trips?".

It did not ask for a response from only "packers". If you did not want specific participation it should have requested such.

Most if not all of the responses that were negative for "packing", concluded with a statement that they believed in the right for you to pack, & were only stating their opinion.

Most all responses that were positive, then went on to discribe what they packed, when they packed & there backrounds & their opinion.

I don't think this got out of hand politically.

[gjackson]

As someone who has been threatened with automatic weapons while overlanding, I'm still with Rob. Strange thing is I grew up in South Africa, one of the most violent places on the planet, and I have never ever felt the need to carry. In Congo when we were acosted en masse by dubious, threatening guys with AKs, my thought was not "I wish I had a gun" it was "keep it friendly, this won't go bad".

cheers

[awalter]

This thread started with asking "Anyone bring firearms with them on trips?". It did not ask for a response only from those that "packed".

If that was the intent of the thread, it should have been more specific.

Most if not all of the responses for not "packing", gave their opinions why & ended with a statement that they believed in your right to "pack".

Most of the responses for "packing", also gave their opinions why.

I don't think the responses were in any form political.

[asteffes]

Like I posted earlier I don't understand the whole gun thing, but I guess I never will, I want to live my entire life without ever touching one. The problems I see with guns are accidents and knee jerk reactions when you are angry. If there are no guns its a lot harder to get angry and shoot somebody in a rampage. For example, if you kill somebody in the UK with a gun its first degree murder, the fact you had the illegal gun or had to go and find an illegal gun shows all the intent necessary.

If a confrontation occurs in the US in the middle of nowhere it has a far higher chance of turning violent. The fact you have a gun is almost irrelevent as the people you are going to meet probably see the world the same way as you, they are almost certainly going to have guns. This alone gives any confrontation a different set of ground rules in the US than anywhere else I have been in the world. In addition, you are not necessilary going to win in a gun battle and are just as likely to get killed as the other guy. Whoever

Making the odds 50/50, not 100/0.



posted earlier that peoples attitues are different when they have a gun is bang on the money, your attitude may not be different when its friendly but when it starts to go sour then its more likely to shows - if it never shows you'll never use it. Somebody without a gun will respond very differently under bad situations. I would rather hone my skills in not having a gun and defuse


Yep, they can shoot back when threatened with deadly force. Of course, no one *wants* to shoot anyone else if they don't have to. The legal and emotional trauma would be devastating. But less so than being dead.



the situtation via other means or remove myself from the situation, these are skills you can take anywhere. Once you leave the US your guns are of no use.


People who pack know the firearm is their last resort. Why the assumption thay they don't understand this?



For all you people who carry guns how many times have you used them? I am guessing nobody has ever used one so am I any worse off by not having a gun? I have met my fair share of threatening and competely crazy people in the boonies but never felt threatened enough to do anything about it, sure

That's because you were not threatened with lethal force. You might feel otherwise if you had been.



they have been offensive and shouting things at the wife but you let that go, wave to them and keep similing. In this situation there were multiple people, stopping would of been asking for trouble and a gun would of been of no use.


No one would suggest otherwise in this situation.



With this in mind its a pity americans have to think that way, compared to most people I have met alot of them are more paranoid and worry about the extreme what if's - for example all the coments above about I have a gun to protect my wife or whatever. While thats very nobel where is the line between being paranoid and being prepared? My wife used to work in Compton, she don't need no help.


The people who I know who own firearms are not paranoid. In fact, they feel quite secure knowing they can equalize the odds if confronted in a lethal force situation.



By the way I hope this didn't offend anybody. I wanted to say how I see things being from a different country but having lived here for 12 years (gives me a unique perspective). While I am 100% against guns I not saying you shouldn't have one, I 100% respect your rights to have a gun. I don't think I'll ever understand why.

Lets keep it friendly.

Rob

No, not at all. The reasoning is really simple: there are bad people in the world and you can't always count on someone else to give up their life to protect yours. Having a firearm at hand and using it are two different things, but some want and train to have the option available to them. That's all.

[Flounder]

An old favorite Alaskan joke:

Guide says to client, "oh, I see you brought a .44 revolver along."
Hiker says, "You bet! For the bears."

Guide, "you might want to file the sight off the barrel before you draw it."
Hiker, "is that so I can draw it from my hip faster?"

Guide, "No, that's so it won't hurt so bad when the bear shoves that pistol up your......"

No guns for me. I'd probably shoot a hole in my foot. Just not something I need.

[xcmountain80]

This thread started with asking "Anyone bring firearms with them on trips?". It did not ask for a response only from those that "packed".

If that was the intent of the thread, it should have been more specific.

Most if not all of the responses for not "packing", gave their opinions why & ended with a statement that they believed in your right to "pack".

Most of the responses for "packing", also gave their opinions why.

I don't think the responses were in any form political.

This will almost always turn into a political issue, you have to look at the group who believe in guns and those who don't. The ones who don't will obviously chime in and say no I don't take one on trips and the supporters that do will say yes we do. Fact is opinions are like *******s and we all have them. So as it might have been a good idea to throw a poll on this one and not ask why they bring it, and just if they do or don't. Fact is there are those of us who would rather take the chance and try to walk away from the fight and then there are the rest of us who will be nice until it's time to not be nice. I love my wife and brother and if their lives were in danger would lay it out there to protect them both no questions asked but i wont be swinging damn stick!

Aaron

[GeoRoss]

I don't carry. I have no problem with those that do, though I admit that I get uncomfortable around strangers that are openly carrying.

I work as a field geologist in AZ. I work alone and often near the border. I have encountered meth labs and cooks, pot farms, angry ranchers, visitors from south of the border with surprisingly large packs :) and along the borders of crazy bunker filled compounds with the US flag flying upside down. I have even been buzzed by black helicopters at night.


Have I felt uncomfortable, YES! The meth guys were the scariest. The pot farmer the coolest. Pretty much all the situations that started off aggressive turned out pretty cool. I'd tell them I am a geologist and start explaining what I was doing and how. Show them maps, explain the local geology and answer questions. Works like a charm every time so far.

Do I think about CCW, yes all the time. The biggest problem for me though is I have a love hate relationship with guns. I like to shoot, yet I have experienced the other side of gun violence. I hate to say this also, but being a 6'3" male and not a women plays big time into the calculus. Will I carry in the future, who knows.

[Boston Mangler]

I guess I'm one of the few here in the SW that have no desire to carry.

I am another one! No desire whatsoever!


While I am 100% against guns I not saying you shouldn't have one, I 100% respect your rights to have a gun. I don't think I'll ever understand why.

Ditto!



Lets keep it friendly.

Ditto! :beer:

[Super Doody]

we usually do.

12guage 870 shotgun in a quick release encosed action lock...fits in the trunk of my dd.

trying to get a setup for my ruger sp101, too, as its a great packin' pistol. fairly light, very stout, shoots .38 special or .357mag.

thinkin' about a "gunvault" lockbox that is opened much like my longgun lock...

has a five button keypad with key override. very cool. completely safe to completely ready for use in about 2seconds....not bad!

here's the gunvault...bolts to anything sturdy...

Thats great and all but how do you prevent people from stealing the box?

[DesertDouglas]

Getting back to the original question—yes, I always try to take firearms with me wherever and whenever legal...not just for self defense, but for recreation too. A pistol for self-defense (this is such a personal choice), an 870 for its versatility of ammo (rubber buckshot, flares, birdshot, to slugs) and a .22 for fun. I know it's an alien thing these days, sitting outside camp—doing a little plinking. Really, trust me it's fun. And, I've yet to be overcome with the aggressive bloodlust so commonly attributed to our “gun culture.” A .22 in your kit is also helpful in handling one of the more common, and dangerous critters (at least around here)--rabid skunks.

(Okay, I don't know if the next two paragraphs should be moved to the other thread.)

I know with each generation familiarity with firearms dies. Our friends, subjects in the Commonwealths, once owned and used firearms for to feed and protect their families—now that's a job for the “authorities.” Here in the States, there was a time in places like NYC where a kid with a .22 rifle heading off to an indoor range could share the subway or sidewalk with a fellow leaving Abercrombie & Fitch with his new .30-06 (yes, they once sold outdoor equipment before thongs and tee-shirts). Now, such a scene would be cause to call out SWAT. Growing up I did know of one man who didn't own at least one firearm—never gave it a thought, but I have to say it was a wonderful, safe, loving, childhood. I know for many this new trend is seen as a good; but unfamiliarity, ignorance, and superstition over inanimate objects bothers me a bit. But don't worry, I'm sure you'll will win out in the end—having the “authorities” take care of us is the easiest path.

I have one question for members of this “vehicle culture”--am I sending out bad vibes, or being paranoid, by carrying a tools, recovery equipment, first-aid kit, auto insurance? I carry two spare tires—jeez, what does that say about me?

[pwc]

This will almost always turn into a political issue, you have to look at the group who believe in guns and those who don't.

Aaron
I still don't see the political side of things with carrying a gun. I'm not a democrat or republican......can you tell if I carry or not now?

[Super Doody]

Like I posted earlier I don't understand the whole gun thing, but I guess I never will, I want to live my entire life without ever touching one. The problems I see with guns are accidents and knee jerk reactions when you are angry. If there are no guns its a lot harder to get angry and shoot somebody in a rampage. For example, if you kill somebody in the UK with a gun its first degree murder, the fact you had the illegal gun or had to go and find an illegal gun shows all the intent necessary.

If a confrontation occurs in the US in the middle of nowhere it has a far higher chance of turning violent. The fact you have a gun is almost irrelevent as the people you are going to meet probably see the world the same way as you, they are almost certainly going to have guns. This alone gives any confrontation a different set of ground rules in the US than anywhere else I have been in the world. In addition, you are not necessilary going to win in a gun battle and are just as likely to get killed as the other guy. Whoever posted earlier that peoples attitues are different when they have a gun is bang on the money, your attitude may not be different when its friendly but when it starts to go sour then its more likely to shows - if it never shows you'll never use it. Somebody without a gun will respond very differently under bad situations. I would rather hone my skills in not having a gun and defuse the situtation via other means or remove myself from the situation, these are skills you can take anywhere. Once you leave the US your guns are of no use.

For all you people who carry guns how many times have you used them? I am guessing nobody has ever used one so am I any worse off by not having a gun? I have met my fair share of threatening and competely crazy people in the boonies but never felt threatened enough to do anything about it, sure they have been offensive and shouting things at the wife but you let that go, wave to them and keep similing. In this situation there were multiple people, stopping would of been asking for trouble and a gun would of been of no use.

With this in mind its a pity americans have to think that way, compared to most people I have met alot of them are more paranoid and worry about the extreme what if's - for example all the coments above about I have a gun to protect my wife or whatever. While thats very nobel where is the line between being paranoid and being prepared? My wife used to work in Compton, she don't need no help.

By the way I hope this didn't offend anybody. I wanted to say how I see things being from a different country but having lived here for 12 years (gives me a unique perspective). While I am 100% against guns I not saying you shouldn't have one, I 100% respect your rights to have a gun. I don't think I'll ever understand why.

Lets keep it friendly.

Rob


Its all about your personal experiences and how you were brought up. I live in SF bay area, CA. Its a very anti gun area. But I feel people see guns as a threat and increasing chance of danger are some what influence by the media. Most of the time, they have never been to a gun range or been taught about gun safety or even shot a gun. So how come you make a decision about something you never experienced?

Its all about what we perceive as a "risk" or "dangers". Its different for all of us. For example I see crossing the street every day as a risk because I work in downtown SF. I lived in small towns before where you just cross and the cars will stop for you.

Fortunately, I learned about guns and most importantly gun safety through rifle merit badge in boy scouts.

I have a gun because for sport (clays) and home defense. I'm self sufficient. If something bad happens, I'm not to be helpless and wait for the cops to show up.

[Jonathan Hanson]

Short answer to the original question (I posted a political opinion in the new thread): Yes. Glock 31 or 32 in .357 Sig. Sometimes a Colt Commander in .45 ACP. In the past: HK USP .45, Sig P229 in .357 Sig, CZ75 in .40, Smith and Wesson Model 19 in .357 Magnum, and probably more I can't recall at the moment.

[DesertRose]

The meth guys were the scariest. The pot farmer the coolest.

You met our neighbors, Ross! (We live just north and west of Arivaca as the crow flies, just south of 3Points)



I hate to say this also, but being a 6'3" male and not a women plays big time into the calculus.


I'm glad someone said this, finally! I've been trying to get that point across, too.

[Wanderlusty]

I don't carry. I have no problem with those that do, though I admit that I get uncomfortable around strangers that are openly carrying.

I work as a field geologist in AZ. I work alone and often near the border. I have encountered meth labs and cooks, pot farms, angry ranchers, visitors from south of the border with surprisingly large packs :) and along the borders of crazy bunker filled compounds with the US flag flying upside down. I have even been buzzed by black helicopters at night.


Have I felt uncomfortable, YES! The meth guys were the scariest. The pot farmer the coolest. Pretty much all the situations that started off aggressive turned out pretty cool. I'd tell them I am a geologist and start explaining what I was doing and how. Show them maps, explain the local geology and answer questions. Works like a charm every time so far.

Do I think about CCW, yes all the time. The biggest problem for me though is I have a love hate relationship with guns. I like to shoot, yet I have experienced the other side of gun violence. I hate to say this also, but being a 6'3" male and not a women plays big time into the calculus. Will I carry in the future, who knows.

I am in a pretty similar situation. I have never minded others with guns, but have never owned a gun of my own, even a rifle.

I think when considering back country travel, it is a different scenario than asking if folks were packing guns going into the inner city or some such scenario.

In back country travel, I think that without guns most are still going to be safe.

If you trip on the occasional pot farmer or meth cooker, it is a mutually beneficial situation to have both parties mind thier own. Most of those kinds of situations may be tense at first, but both parties are relieved later on. The 'cookers and farmers' glad to know it isn't the 'man' and the traveller for going peacefully on their way.

I think Hollywood has way too many people convinced that if they run into a situation with 'unsavory' characters in the backwoods that you will end up in a shallow grave. That really is just not the case. Not saying bad things don't, or couldn't happen...just saying that the perception is different from reality.

Yet, while I do not personally carry a gun, but someone in my party does...I admit it does feel like a nice bit of insurance...

[awalter]

You met our neighbors, Ross! (We live just north and west of Arivaca as the crow flies, just south of 3Points)





I'm glad someone said this, finally! I've been trying to get that point across, too.


I totally agree, that needed to be said long ago.

[Robthebrit]

Its all about your personal experiences and how you were brought up.

That I 100% agree with, I am sure if I grew up here I would have a very different view on guns. They are just something you don't see in the UK, however a few people do have shotguns, farmers in particular.

I did find it funny that you learnt to handle a gun in Boy Scouts, I learnt how to make a fire! It is encouraging to see that most of you guys who do carry guns have a long history with guns and some decent traning. This is another reason why I will never have one, I probably shoot mysel with it.

Rob

[teotwaki]

That I 100% agree with, I am sure if I grew up here I would have a very different view on guns. They are just something you don't see in the UK, however a few people do have shotguns, farmers in particular.

I did find it funny that you learnt to handle a gun in Boy Scouts, I learnt how to make a fire! It is encouraging to see that most of you guys who do carry guns have a long history with guns and some decent traning. This is another reason why I will never have one, I probably shoot mysel with it.

Rob

tongue in cheek alert! ........:camping: :REOutCampFire03: :REOutShootinghunter :REExeSwimmingHL: :REOutArchery02: :ar15:

In the Boy Scouts I learned about setting things on fire, shooting holes in everything with arrows, cutting things up with knives, hacking things to bits with an axe and maybe a little about firearms. Therefore we should conclude that we have to eliminate the Boy Scout organization to reduce our "culture of violence", right?

[Skillet]

tongue in cheek alert! ........:camping: :REOutCampFire03: :REOutShootinghunter :REExeSwimmingHL: :REOutArchery02: :ar15:

In the Boy Scouts I learned about setting things on fire, shooting holes in everything with arrows, cutting things up with knives, hacking things to bits with an axe and maybe a little about firearms. Therefore we should conclude that we have to eliminate the Boy Scout organization to reduce our "culture of violence", right?


:lurk:

[asteffes]

tongue in cheek alert! ........:camping: :REOutCampFire03: :REOutShootinghunter :REExeSwimmingHL: :REOutArchery02: :ar15:

In the Boy Scouts I learned about setting things on fire, shooting holes in everything with arrows, cutting things up with knives, hacking things to bits with an axe and maybe a little about firearms. Therefore we should conclude that we have to eliminate the Boy Scout organization to reduce our "culture of violence", right?

When you grow up with these activities, they don't seem nearly as scary, dangerous or violent. You learn to respect them and the taboo is lost. We don't need more gun control... we need more kids to grow up with campfires, knives, arrows, axes, firearms and the overall sense of respect and maturity that naturally grows from such activities.

[DesertRose]

tongue in cheek alert! ........:camping: :REOutCampFire03: :REOutShootinghunter :REExeSwimmingHL: :REOutArchery02: :ar15:

In the Boy Scouts I learned about setting things on fire, shooting holes in everything with arrows, cutting things up with knives, hacking things to bits with an axe and maybe a little about firearms. Therefore we should conclude that we have to eliminate the Boy Scout organization to reduce our "culture of violence", right?

In the Girl Scouts I learned how to sew (really - we made hot pads).

I like guns better.

[gjackson]

When you grow up with these activities, they don't seem nearly as scary, dangerous or violent. You learn to respect them and the taboo is lost.

If only this country could extend that view to alcohol. . .I'm all for advocating personal responsibility, but if you are going to do it, do it across the board.

cheers

[big sky trapper]

Ive been reading this one for a while...Yes I carry every day between work and then out and about. But most of my activities keep me in extreme back country area's. But suprisingly my biggest concern isnt 4 legged critters (including grizzlies) But the two legged variety.

...growing up in montana...your pretty much on your own so firearms play a significant role in our own personal veiw of "deterance".

I am perfectly at ease with any weapon and so is my misses and all our kiddo's

Its just another tool to get the job at hand done. (the same to me as sliders, a winch, good sleeping bags ect)

As quoted in some other interesting post ... "Its for the saftey and security of my familly"....

[teotwaki]

In the Girl Scouts I learned how to sew (really - we made hot pads).

I like guns better.


Mongo say Girl Scouts good. Mongo likes cookies. Yum. :shakin:

[GeoRoss]

You met our neighbors, Ross! (We live just north and west of Arivaca as the crow flies, just south of 3Points)





I'm glad someone said this, finally! I've been trying to get that point across, too.

:hehe:

The meth cookers I met were in the San Pedro Valley. I assume they were cookers based on teeth condition and twitchyness. They were awfully jumpy.

[erin]

I totally agree BST, just another tool, just like pepper spray, tazers, and such. Like I have always told people when working in this field who were unsure or skittish about guns, but also desired the ability to protect themselves or their families, it is just an object, it is the person weilding it that ultimately decides how it will be used. Funny how that is pretty much sums up about anything people decide to use for themselves nowadays, cars, equipment, alchlol, drugs, etc. Anyone of these items incorrectly used could vegatively affect other people.