BDS lift kit

[Nikson]

wanted to get some opinion on this brand.

First of all... want a long arm kit (suggestions to these specs are welcome)

Will be running a set of 35 KM2 under the Cherokee... thus need a 4 1/2 to 6 1/2 inch lift.

Just came from SEMA2010, talking it over with lots of guys... came to conclusion, long arm kit has to be from total of 4 long arms, and not just 2 w/Y-type linkage. (less stress overall on the control arms)

At this point, BDS seems like to be the one....

http://bds-suspension.com/product?ma=7&mo=29&ty=38&yr=1984-2001

Anyone has any experience, or can suggest another 4 long arm lift kit for an XJ?

Thanks in advance...

[Root Moose]

The only other four link setup that I am aware of is the Full-Traction.

I think that Clayton may have a three link in the works but for an overlanding rig I would prefer a four link or a radius arm setup.

I haven't heard anything negative about the BDS but then I may not have been paying attention. :)

[Booner]

Not a long arm, but I've gotten excellent service from the 3.5 inch BDS short arm kit on my 98 Grand. After quite a bit of offroading, the only component that I had a problem with was my trackbar, and BDS replaced it, no questions asked. I just bought BDS suspension for my 78 CJ5 :sombrero:.

[Nikson]

The only other four link setup that I am aware of is the Full-Traction.

I think that Clayton may have a three link in the works but for an overlanding rig I would prefer a four link or a radius arm setup.

I haven't heard anything negative about the BDS but then I may not have been paying attention. :)

How is the Full-Traction kit? compariable to others good brands...

at this point, I am not wanting to waste money on lower priced kits, yet dont want to spend $5k for a lift kit either...

I've picked up my XJ from an auction at $2500 (2d, 1998 yr)... dont want to go overboard with all the mods...

[Nikson]

ideally, this is what I prefer & hope to do...

Long arm from (4 link) - BDS or similar(Full-Traction) front control arms.

OME rear leafs & shocks all around.

Front springs probably from BDS/or another good brand.

Tracbar & steering components on the go from other reputable brands as well...

at this point, after all the talking with bunch of other folks, seems like OME suspension components are the most reliable as well as best performing on/off road as far as comfort of the ride...

[Root Moose]

I can't speak to the Full Traction setup - I've never seen it in person. It seems to have a decent reputation. I think it may be popular with the JeepSpeed style crowd. The cross member where the front arms connect to the bottom seems to hang low (in images). I am biased though with the TNT kits on the XJ and MJ.

As far as OME, they make good stuff but are not the end all be all. Your last build seemed pretty highly developed. You may want to go with "cheaper" springs like RE or similar and have the price "flexibility" to swap out different springs (i.e. rates) as part of your tuning. I'm still doing the tuning with my XJ and am starting to chase spring and damper rates the more I drive the thing (I should make it road legal again I suppose?).

[Root Moose]

Oh, btw I have OME dampers and RE springs on my Jeep. I find the damping a little mushy in the front but I haven't really beat on it yet. I may swap out to try Bilstein 5150s eventually. My buddy has a similar setup (RE springs, 1" taller) but Bilstein dampers and they seem to have a better damping. I'm a sports car car that likes a stiff ride though so take it with a grain of salt.

[Nikson]

I can't speak to the Full Traction setup - I've never seen it in person. It seems to have a decent reputation. I think it may be popular with the JeepSpeed style crowd. The cross member where the front arms connect to the bottom seems to hang low (in images). I am biased though with the TNT kits on the XJ and MJ.

As far as OME, they make good stuff but are not the end all be all. Your last build seemed pretty highly developed. You may want to go with "cheaper" springs like RE or similar and have the price "flexibility" to swap out different springs (i.e. rates) as part of your tuning. I'm still doing the tuning with my XJ and am starting to chase spring and damper rates the more I drive the thing (I should make it road legal again I suppose?).

in past few months while on my trips in Russia & US, I've got a chance to try out various vehicle with various lifts... and at this point, guys with mostly OME suspension components got me convinced to try that out on my next project as far as SHOCKS/rear leaf go...

since OME doesnt make a long arm kit for the front, I am going to use another manufacturer for that...

being that 35s are the choice for this project, Long Arms are a must for me.

lift height will be no more the 6 1/2, but probably start at 4 1/2.

I want to actually build a trail worthy rig this time, yet very street capable.

[redthies]

I have used a couple of BDS kits in the past with no complaints. They were solid and reliable. I haven't used the exact kit you are looking at, but as a company I think they are a decent brand.

[OverlandZJ]

Take a look at this thread. Clayton has posted pics of his new three link setup and CAD drawings of his prototype four link that may be released.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1047457

Personally i think a radius arm setup can work well in an Overland rig... unless you plan to use all your suspension travel often.

[Nikson]

Take a look at this thread. Clayton has posted pics of his new three link setup and CAD drawings of his prototype four link that may be released.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1047457

Personally i think a radius arm setup can work well in an Overland rig... unless you plan to use all your suspension travel often.

it wont be used as a trail rig....

daily driver - weekend explorer / wheeler... not the type to be hauled on a trailer obviously...

[Nikson]

I have used a couple of BDS kits in the past with no complaints. They were solid and reliable. I haven't used the exact kit you are looking at, but as a company I think they are a decent brand.

its great to hear that BDS stands behind their product...

[stankfoot]

http://www.rockkrawler.com/?r_intro=1

has great warranty

[Nikson]

does anyone have anything to say about RubiconExpress' "Y" style long arm kits? reliability wise - on-road comfort?

[OttawaXJ]

if its a mall crawler you really wont see a difference between any of the long arm kits. The only time you have to be choosy with long arm kits is if you plan on wheeling. BDS has a no BS warranty on their stuff but what bothers me is I still hear people bending the control arms. Staangs fab on the other hand looks damn near bomb proof and has the same no BS warranty, for life instead of just a few years.

[Root Moose]

Personally i think a radius arm setup can work well in an Overland rig... unless you plan to use all your suspension travel often.


daily driver - weekend explorer / wheeler... not the type to be hauled on a trailer obviously...

IMO, radius arms would be fine for your usage.

If you are considering a four link versus a radius arm due to the caster curve being better with the four link I think that is not a good criteria to base a decision on. While it is valid from a physics point of view the relative difference is so minor to not really be felt through the steering wheel.

Radius arms are harder on bushings and they don't have the ultimate flex that a three or four link may have but exactly how much flex do you need on an overlanding rig? Even with the radius arms you may want to add heavy bump stops and/or limiting straps.

The negative that gets thrown out about radius arms is that they unload during steep climbs. How much of an issue is this? I can't answer that for you.

FWIW, full size Broncos, coiler Land Cruisers, Land Rovers and Galendewagens have been using long arms for a long time. It's simple, strong, and "good enough" especially for an overlanding rig.


does anyone have anything to say about RubiconExpress' "Y" style long arm kits? reliability wise - on-road comfort?

Another kit I haven't seen in the buff. The only quibble I've heard about it was that the mounting to the uni-rails is "interesting" and made adding rocker rails challenging. This may be old data from when the kit first came out. Research it further.

[OverlandZJ]

does anyone have anything to say about RubiconExpress' "Y" style long arm kits? reliability wise - on-road comfort?


Another kit I haven't seen in the buff. The only quibble I've heard about it was that the mounting to the uni-rails is "interesting" and made adding rocker rails challenging. This may be old data from when the kit first came out. Research it further.

I run RE longarms, with a twist. When i bought them the kit was still unavailable for the XJ, so the mounting wasnt completed. I used them in conjunction with Claytons crossmember and it's working out just fine for me.

I had no issue with the crossmember and RockyRoad rockrails, but the rails were gone shortly after i quit the rocks.

FWIW, if i had it to do over again, i'd opt for Claytons kit. The Johnny joints are larger and the setup just seems to have more beef. Check out Stump's build.. he runs them and seems happy.

For the record, my RE arms have held up fine. I do think i'm about due for a JJ rebuild which is cheap and easy enough.

I think i posted before about chasing a decent onroad ride once i went above 4.5", i hated the road manners till the LA setup. Then the addition of a good front shock made all the difference in the world. Bilsteins were worth their weight in gold for me.

[alosix]

does anyone have anything to say about RubiconExpress' "Y" style long arm kits? reliability wise - on-road comfort?

When I was running a shop, most guys really like it on-road. I run a mix of old school tera and handmade stuff I can't comment personally.

We did use the kit on a competition TJ. We beat the crap out of that rig and never had any issues with the arms.

RE is also nice to work with and the parts to rebuild the joints are pretty cheap. I run the same bushing/joints on my LA setup that RE uses, no issues so far.

[fireman33]

You should really consider this kit from iron rock offroad...excellent quality and awesome service...I run theire long arm kit on my wj and they are awesome.
http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-X_6LK

[Backwoods Rambler]

My vote is for the BDS kit since it uses 4 bushings and no hard joints that will transfer a lot of road noise and vibration on you daily drive. Although I absolutely LOVE the TnT stuff, I'm a bigger fan these days of having 4 front control arms with bushings, hence my XJ's setup with JK control arms.

I do wish that JKS Mfg offered a 4 arm long-arm kit with thier patented swivel points for my WJ. That would be the Bee's Knees!

[Nikson]

from all the info i've been gathering around the "world"... this is what I would like to do...

4 1/2 lift (+/-)

Would like to stick with most of the OME components, such as shocks & rear leafs.

The only fight now... is up to the front control arms.

For better onroad manners, so far most everyone says that longs arms are the way to go, since they are more "parallel" to the ground, thus softer ride overall.

Rear will be medium duty OME leafs (to compensate for the extra weight of the gear)...

OME shocks are one of the better ones (unless someone would like to suggest otherwise based on personal experience).

Now, just need to decide if a "Y-link" (RE or similar), 3-link or 4-link by Claytons or BDS would be the better choice to go with.
============================

Found a nice Ford 8.8 rear axle for $100 at a local junkyard, so it will be a good set up with my Dana30HP.

Plan is to run Eaton Elockers front/rear w/4.88s & 35 KM2s

[Root Moose]

FWIW, I won't run a three link on a Jeep that sees lots of on-road usage. Three link is trail b!tch only thing as far as I am concerned.

The components you've settled on so far is decent stuff - can't go wrong.

My short list if I was buying a long arm set up today (alphabetical order):

BDS
Clayton
Full Traction
RE
TNT

or

RE drop brackets

or "homemade" arms (yeah, like I have that kind of time).

Criteria:

Types of joints used:

- replaceable
- serviceable
- type (rubber versus poly versus heims - I would never put heims on a vehicle that sees a lot of on-road usage either)
- NVH effects by joint type.
- environmental effects on joint type

Geometry:

- radius arms versus four link versus drop brackets
- suspension movement clearance at desired ride height
- how much flex is "enough"?
- wheel arc/travel in the front wheel well
- caster gain/loss arc at desired steady state ride height
- effects on anti-squat and anti-dive (relative OEM)


Install Complexity:

- required welding and cutting of OEM components
- replacement of OEM components with heavier duty or lower MTBF components (geometry can play a role here)
- opportunities to replace ancillary components at the same time with stronger/better components (e.g. belly pan, steering, Panhard, etc.)


Cost

- Bang for the buck versus actual cost
- Can items be "staged" a bit at a time?
- what other costs will be revealed when install is completed - what needs to be replaced to work with the new components properly


I'm probably forgetting some stuff.

Compare your intended usage against these different points and you'll probably end up with a shorter product list.

Or just bolt some random stuff on and make it work. ;)



HTH

[gasman]

i have run the BDS 6 1/2 long arm on my 95 xj,, excellent kit, tons of flex, the first few times off road it scared the pants off me, i thought i was gonna flip, the kit took me everywhere i wanted to go , my only suggestion would be to make sure you get the upgraded track bar, and drop bracket that comes with it, it might be standard on the kit now, i had issues with the first trac bar , the bushing wore out after 2 yrs , shortly after i replaced the bushing my trac bar snapped , luckily i was on the street and there was no traffic, , BDS replaced the trac bar under warranty but i paid the differance to upgrade, with the 6.5 you will need a sye and drive shaft, and you e brake cables will be too short , 2 passenger side cables from a 92 or up ( tj i think ) were a perfect fit.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i60/superfitter/DSC04470.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i60/superfitter/n502922704_591311_556.jpg

[Nikson]

i have run the BDS 6 1/2 long arm on my 95 xj,, excellent kit, tons of flex, the first few times off road it scared the pants off me, i thought i was gonna flip, the kit took me everywhere i wanted to go , my only suggestion would be to make sure you get the upgraded track bar, and drop bracket that comes with it, it might be standard on the kit now, i had issues with the first trac bar , the bushing wore out after 2 yrs , shortly after i replaced the bushing my trac bar snapped , luckily i was on the street and there was no traffic, , BDS replaced the trac bar under warranty but i paid the differance to upgrade, with the 6.5 you will need a sye and drive shaft, and you e brake cables will be too short , 2 passenger side cables from a 92 or up ( tj i think ) were a perfect fit.


what size tires do you run?

what type of driving you mostly do? (offroad & trails or daily driver & lots of highway?)

[Nikson]

ONE GREAT LIST
HTH

Definitely there is somethings to consider... taking into consideration of what type of customer service one hopes to receive, would be another deciding point on the choice of lift...

[alosix]

The other thing you're going to want to check is if you can get the LA parts without getting the whole kit.

Full Traction in the past really wouldn't do that.
BDS : I don't see any separate parts listings for an 'upgrade kit'.

RE, RK, and Clayton will do this though. I think TNT as well.

Jason

[Root Moose]

Yeah, this is correct. AFAIK, BDS and Full Traction will not separate parts. TNT sells pretty much everything à la carte. I'm not sure if some of the JeepSpeed VARs like Currie or T & J have a different relationship that allows individual parts ordering. You will end up paying for it if they do.

Warranty concerns is a good point. I've never really worried about warranty on these types of things myself. If it passes inspection upon opening the box its good IMO. Past that I don't expect much and would fix things myself just because of the timeliness aspect. I'm in a different country so it tends to be simpler to just deal with things locally.

[OttawaXJ]

i have run the BDS 6 1/2 long arm on my 95 xj,, excellent kit, tons of flex, the first few times off road it scared the pants off me, i thought i was gonna flip, the kit took me everywhere i wanted to go , my only suggestion would be to make sure you get the upgraded track bar, and drop bracket that comes with it, it might be standard on the kit now, i had issues with the first trac bar , the bushing wore out after 2 yrs , shortly after i replaced the bushing my trac bar snapped , luckily i was on the street and there was no traffic, , BDS replaced the trac bar under warranty but i paid the differance to upgrade, with the 6.5 you will need a sye and drive shaft, and you e brake cables will be too short , 2 passenger side cables from a 92 or up ( tj i think ) were a perfect fit.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i60/superfitter/DSC04470.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i60/superfitter/n502922704_591311_556.jpg

Is that second picture from B&D in brockville? Looks like the hill top on that trail.

[Nikson]

The other thing you're going to want to check is if you can get the LA parts without getting the whole kit.

Full Traction in the past really wouldn't do that.
BDS : I don't see any separate parts listings for an 'upgrade kit'.

RE, RK, and Clayton will do this though. I think TNT as well.

Jason

That is the main point of the whole deal...

Since I am trying to set the lift up from different components, its important that I dont end up buying things I dont need.

Bilstein shocks VS OME yellows???

Anyone can comment on that?

[alosix]

My gut says that if you're going with OME springs I'd go with the OME shocks.

I liked my bilstien 5100s before I killed them. Really like my QA1s, but that's probably overkill.

[K2ZJ]

http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=175719

Don't know him, I just saw it and thought of this thread.

[Nikson]

My gut says that if you're going with OME springs I'd go with the OME shocks.

I liked my bilstien 5100s before I killed them. Really like my QA1s, but that's probably overkill.

for the most part... everyone i talked to who had OME shocks... said they were the best they ever had...

[Nikson]

I had this very discussion (http://naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=245025296&postcount=41) on another site a while back.

Consensus is that trail only trucks, most go with the Bilsteins (they're harsher). For DD or weekend warrior offroading, the OMEs are much smoother and even (as in cushier) making them a good choice overall for tarmac and offroad (they can take abuse). So for mostly tarmac, they deliver a smooth ride, but if you want to venture off into the wilderness, they're up to it.

I have OMEs and they're solid and smooth. They're not soft, just a consistent, even compression rate from extended to compressed.

I've hit potholes at 70-80 KMH (5" lift DPG/RE hybrid on 32s) and they didn't throw me off the line.

Also, I'm sure you know this, but running 35s would mean tarmac only. On 32s, with a true 5" of lift, I rip my fender flares off on the trails (no fender cutting).

sorry, but I dont know what TARMAC means... :( (russian in me) :)

[gasman]

what size tires do you run?

what type of driving you mostly do? (offroad & trails or daily driver & lots of highway?)

i was running procomp exterains in the 33x12.50 flavour, 4.88 gears and locked in the rear, i went to 35;s and regretted that,
the rig was my daily driver /weekend warrior, most of the good trails are 3 to 4 hours away and i was up there every couple of weekends, the rig would go anywhere i wanted it to go , 110 kph on the highway max, i just recently sold it with 380,000 kms and the guy who bought it plans on daily driving it and weekends to his cottage, ,

[gasman]

TARMAC= ashpalt..( on the road)

[Nikson]

TARMAC= ashpalt..( on the road)

Got it... well, mostly around here, I end up taking asphalt roads about 1-2 hours (depending on where I go)... and then mostly gravel (washboard type) roads... with some rock crawling here or there.

This XJ will be a daily driver for most part, but definitely plan to take it to MOAB and also up for a trip to Alaska wilderness...

so if you look at the overall pictures, I need to set it up good for 70% onroad / 30% offroad use +/-.

Being a daily driver, it dont see much of pavement either, just running errands here and there, since it is my second (weekend) vehicle.

thanks for feedback,

[Mr. D]

:lurk:

[gunselman]

FYI. BDS does offer their 4 link front a la carte. If you are a member on www.jeepforum.com they have a discount in the vender section for members. You can also get it without the arms if you choose to make your own. The directions to mount the kit can be found online so locating the crossmember is doable very easily.

This is the route i am going. I will be making my arms out of heat treated aluminum hex bar stock or round stock.

[alosix]

FYI. BDS does offer their 4 link front a la carte. If you are a member on www.jeepforum.com they have a discount in the vender section for members. You can also get it without the arms if you choose to make your own. The directions to mount the kit can be found online so locating the crossmember is doable very easily.

This is the route i am going. I will be making my arms out of heat treated aluminum hex bar stock or round stock.

That's good to know. I'd be tempted to use the front uppers, though they are at kind of an odd geometry on the TJ. I know why they did it, but its still a little odd.

I think there's a little more room between the rails to work with on a TJ though, you can see much longer upper arms in that kit.

[Nikson]

FYI. BDS does offer their 4 link front a la carte. If you are a member on www.jeepforum.com they have a discount in the vender section for members. You can also get it without the arms if you choose to make your own. The directions to mount the kit can be found online so locating the crossmember is doable very easily.

This is the route i am going. I will be making my arms out of heat treated aluminum hex bar stock or round stock.

After being on the phone for almost an hour with Clayton himself from Clayton's Offroad... and hearing lots of positive feedback from the actual users, I think that I am going to go ahead with their kit.

$1999 w/free shipping - is a great price for a 4 1/2 long arm kit with bulletproof lifetime warranty.

I guess I will take that trial & error path, and try out and see how this kit will work out on my next project.

I just picked today another XJ, so now i've got 2 of them - a 2dr & a 4 dr.

The plan for the 4dr is to get the coil conversion done.
============================
4 wheel drive parts has offered me a good deal on the axle builts...

D30/Ford 8.8 - EATON E-Lockers / 4.88 gears & installation for around $2500...

[gunselman]

Is that price for the kit with springs? I know the BDS long arm kit is significantly cheaper without the springs.

Also poly performance makes a 3 link and a 4 link for cherokees.

[Nikson]

Is that price for the kit with springs? I know the BDS long arm kit is significantly cheaper without the springs.

Also poly performance makes a 3 link and a 4 link for cherokees.

That price is with springs, but shocks are not included.