pull pal alternatives

[big sky trapper]

A disscusision going on at yotatech.

http://yotatech.com/showthread.php?p=50502602#post50502602

my reply there and if any one here is interested...

I built one in under an hour, final cost for the first prototype is 42$. testing pics will be up tommorrow eve on here

Wasnt that hard to build. and it even folds up like a "real" one. For a spade i used a 14" duck foot plow similar to the golpher model on page one. 10 feet of 2 in square tubing. 6 - 1/2x 3 1/2 inch bolts washers nuts ect. six conection plates.

If it works Ill freely give the design info out on here if it dont well ...... I guess back to the drawing boards ...and you get to see some "when bad design go wrong" funnies !

[big sky trapper]

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/bigskytrapper/P4150004.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/bigskytrapper/P4150003.jpg

[big sky trapper]

It worked after a few very minor changes. will post pics and link siome vids this afternoon.

[dieselcruiserhead]

I have a home brew one too that I bought off someone who knocked out a few locally, for $50, pretty good deal.. Three rigs and myself and some friends spent a miserable afternoon-turned-evening spent buried in some muck once because we had winches but nothing to attach to... What a miserable night... What I like about yours it is collapses, a design feature who ever built this one overlooked.. I am going to start tweaking it to be a little more like yours.. Possibly have a larger blade as well maybe as my trucks are heavy...

[big sky trapper]

In the above pic's (first post) you can see a second unused hole, Its was to be a place to lock the assembly together when folded down. That ended up being as near to perfect for the front mount. In the original configuration I had the long arm on top at to high an angle. It needs to be as close to parallel with the spade for it dig properly.

This photo shows the how the wrong down angle made it actually want to plow instead of dig.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/bigskytrapper/P4160002.jpg

Here i moved the pulling bar down to where its parallel with the spade and it dug right down almost by itself. Only needed slight hand pressure to steady it and down it dug!
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/bigskytrapper/P4160006.jpg

here just a shot of the failed digs haha
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/bigskytrapper/P4160008.jpg

here the depth of how easilly it dug down...
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/bigskytrapper/P4160009.jpg

so now i have all the angles worked out. I did make this prototype out out of 1/16" square tubeing just for easy working with, now ill think Ill make the final out of 1/8-3/16" wall thickness just for long term durabillity ect. For a toyota sized truck i think the 1/16" thickness would be plenty but the weight differance will be marginal gain for strength I could use on a full size rig if needed. and the nose of this digger will have a provision for a clevis instead of a chain.

The original dims are: top long arm 53" center connecting arm 24" spade connecting arm was 25 inches. You will need 6 connecting straps-2x6, and 9 1/2 x 3 1/2 nuts bolts washers ect.

Happy building your own....

[big sky trapper]

need to re shoot a another video...my camra man shot mostly truck tires haha and nbot how easy it worked....

[Willman]

A disscusision going on at yotatech.

http://yotatech.com/showthread.php?p=50502602#post50502602


Love the Hi-lift idea!~

:bowdown:

Looks great! Great work! I like how you have used a shovel off a tool bar farm tractor!

Love to see a video!

When are they going to hit the market?....lol

Now...all we need to see is the REAL deal on the trail!

:chowtime:

[flyingwil]

Love the Hi-lift idea!

The hi-Lift idea is smart, but again the high lift is only rated for 4,660lbs, that part would concern the crap out of me when using it.:REOutArchery02:

[Willman]

The hi-Lift idea is smart, but again the high lift is only rated for 4,660lbs, that part would concern the crap out of me when using it.:REOutArchery02:

Good point!

Safety bolt is designed to shear at 7,000 lbs.!!!!!

And theirs my sign!!!!

:sport_box

Back to the drawing board!

[big sky trapper]

I dont think they will hit the the market, other than a few locally for some friends... The shipping would be more than the materials to make them i would think. But you are more than welcome to copy and improve on this one. And when you do please post pic's

But using your high lift as the upper base/pull bar could be done I would think if you tied in without the jack assembly just used the notched holed bar for a pull support. The lift bar i would think would be rated by whatever steel its made from and should be way more than my puney 1/16" ...HMMM might have to try that this week end.

So now i need to come up with a way to mount that monster.....

Now that trapping season is over I have to much time on my hands hahaha

[big sky trapper]

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/bigskytrapper/P4210021.jpg

Maybe something like this...but would definatly balace better with a 60" bar instead of a 48".

Mounting to only the bar I would think would be pretty strong. Considering the hook pin on most winches is only 5/16-3/8" the 1/2" bolt in the eylet of the bar should be plenty stong. testing to come....

[sockminkey]

I may be just a n00b, but I appreciate the research. Thanks for sharing it. I spend a lot of time driving solo in the Great Basin and I'd sure feel safer carrying a Pull-Pal or some reasonable alternative.

[akraven]

Where did you source the blade for it. I have web searched a few places but find various names for them. Thanks akraven
PS I am not in a great farming area so am a little short of local info!

[Howard70]

Hello Bigy Sky:

I really like the Hi Lift idea - I'm always trying to lighten the overall weight carried in our truck and using the Hi Lift like this would be great.

Along the "weight - reduction" lines: It looks to me like the forward diagonal piece would be under tension when your anchor was in use. If that's correct, then could it be replaced with a piece of cable with an eye spliced in each end? That save several pounds over boxed stock. What do you think?

Howard L. Snell

[big sky trapper]

The plow blade I got from the local ag store in fairfield, i think was about 4 bucks...I did a very quick google look and seen it from several online ag stores might check those out. they come in just about every size from 6inches to 14 inches.

I dont see why a cable wouldnt work, (the end of a recycled old winch cable maybe??) the main reason for the diagnal peice is to provide the stabiltiy it needs untill the plow digs itself in. and then provide some support for the thing untill it sets. Best I could say it try it and see.

Ive been so busy the past week or so i havnt had a chance to take either in the woods and see how they fair....

[akraven]

Thanks for the excellent idea!! I will hunt around today for some parts to build one. akraven

[dieselcruiserhead]

Here are photos of the home made pull pal I have.. Havn't tried it yet...

[crawler#976]

any updates???

[Nibstools]

I know this post has gone cold but I just built me one of these so here are some pics.

[StumpXJ]

I dig the idea, how does it work? Need a video... :D

Also, what prevents this thing from allowing the entire mechanism of the jack to pull itself into/under the dirt? We all know how *well* hi-lifts work when they are clean, throw a little dirt into the mix, and the jack is almost useless until its torn apart and cleaned. I know the pull palls often have to get pulled under VERY deep until it starts working. Just curious... neat idea for sure. Just wondering how well it actually works.

~James

[XJINTX]

WOW, what GR8 ideas!

I think you should pitch this to Hi-Lift.

I know I'd buy one that was compatible with my Hi-Lift I always have with me... save on weight and space.

Guess I need to look at building one :coffee:

[CanuckMariner]

If a Hi-Lift can be used as a cum-a-long (manual winch) as well as lifting 1/4 to 1/2 the weight of one's rig then this idea certainly has merit and deserves to be tested as long as one is careful. I would suspect the Extreme version of the Hi-Lift would be better suited and safer than the cast (doesn't bend much without breaking) everyday version. Another way of having more than one use for one tool, makes it easier to justify having it along.

[cruiseroutfit]

...Also, what prevents this thing from allowing the entire mechanism of the jack to pull itself into/under the dirt? We all know how *well* hi-lifts work when they are clean, throw a little dirt into the mix, and the jack is almost useless until its torn apart and cleaned. I know the pull palls often have to get pulled under VERY deep until it starts working. Just curious... neat idea for sure. Just wondering how well it actually works..

A dirty hi-lift is a dangerous hi-lift and now you are compromising one recovery device to build another.

My other concern is using the hi lift mast in what could be a bending moment. For the two 'authorized' uses Hi-Lift designed for, the mast is used in pure compression (jacking) or tension (winching). When setting a winch anchor its very possible for it to dive at a varied angle, not inline with your pull, would worry me.

We discussed using the Hi-Lift mast as the main beam for a winch anchor device in the past. The biggest pro was weight and space savings for the vehicle. However I pulled apart my Pull-Pal and figured the net weight savings was just 7 lbs assuming you used the mast for a pull-pal like setup. The setup in this thread is obviously different and far lighter
You can read about that here:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15064

My logic was this. Sure, the entire Pull-Pal represents a lot of weight, but I'd guess that the beam itself isn't going to save you more than 10lbs. (later measured to be under 7 lbs) Consider my complete Pull-Pall weights 34lbs, 36lbs with the case... add to that I don't carry a Hi-Lift (26lbs) rather an exhaust jack (15 lbs)... I'm at a net savings. Not that I'm honestly ever worried about 10 lbs in a 7500lb setup

[alexrex20]

who said he was trying to save weight? maybe he just doesn't want to spend $400 on a glorified boat anchor, when he can build his own for $40.

the concept is still the same and i doubt the mast of a Hi-Lift is much weaker (if at all) than that of an actual Pull-Pal.

[cruiseroutfit]

who said he was trying to save weight?

Read the link referenced by that comment and you'll see as was clearly stated weight came up as an advantage. My comments are based accordingly no?


the concept is still the same and i doubt the mast of a Hi-Lift is much weaker (if at all) than that of an actual Pull-Pal.

I wouldn't bet my recovery on it... nor would I feel remotely comfortable watching my hi-lift dig several feet into the ground. Different strokes for different folks but having used a Pull-Pal and seeing the forces it takes to get them started but not only anchored, the only glorified boat anchor is going to be whats left of your hi-lift. :elkgrin: Nobody is saying the Hi-Lift mast is 'weaker', what I am implying is that it is likely not designed to be used in anything but pure tension and compression, ie a potential bending moment like seen by a Pull-Pal recovery would not be a safe use imo of a cast mast arm.

[1leglance]

How come no one comments on the fact that it isn't very nice to copy someone elses hard design work.
Yeah I know almost everything is based on something that came before...
But it still bugs me to see someone come along and copy something as a homebuild, teach others and knock the very company they are making copies of.

Now I am not picking a fight, just saying that it has an effect, a company wants to charge more to get money while they can, and many times not even bother since they just figure guys in garages will copy it.

[R_Lefebvre]

How come no one comments on the fact that it isn't very nice to copy someone elses hard design work.
Yeah I know almost everything is based on something that came before...
But it still bugs me to see someone come along and copy something as a homebuild, teach others and knock the very company they are making copies of.


IF the Pull-pal were patented, is the patent still valid? Also, these setups are probably different enough they could get a patent if they wanted. The use of a standard, cheap, readily available farm blade is a significant improvement in construction, and also improves the design because it folds without needing to remove the blade. The patent laws are supposed to protect the rights of the holder to profit from their design. But it still allows considerable leeway to further improve the design for the benefit of society.

I intend on making one of these myself and will sleep well at night.


Nobody is saying the Hi-Lift mast is 'weaker', what I am implying is that it is likely not designed to be used in anything but pure tension and compression, ie a potential bending moment like seen by a Pull-Pal recovery would not be a safe use imo of a cast mast arm.


Technically... there is some bending moment in a Hi-Lift due to the fact that the lifting nose is several inches out of plane with the column.

[cruiseroutfit]

...I intend on making one of these myself..

Do you plan to use the entire hi-lift as shown? Your comfortable driving your hi-lift several feet or more into the ground?



...Technically... there is some bending moment in a Hi-Lift due to the fact that the lifting nose is several inches out of plane with the column.

A minor moment but true, exactly why hi-lift oriented the depth of their 'I-Beam' in that direction. The bending you're likely to encounter using this mast for a winch anchor is the opposite, across the weaker section. Will it fail, who knows, have hi-lift masts bent, yes. Regardless, I'm not over the point of burying my hi-lift mechanism in the ground several feet as its reverse logic and using the mast only as part of the winch anchor doesn't represent enough weight savings to mandate disassembling one recovery tool to build another when often time is crucial.

[R_Lefebvre]

Do you plan to use the entire hi-lift as shown? Your comfortable driving your hi-lift several feet or more into the ground?


Sorry, yeah, that wasn't clear. I don't intend on using the Hi-Lift beam. I agree, that the 7lbs or whatever weight savings isn't really worth worrying about compared to the disadvantages of using the Hi-Lift parts.

[dzzz]

How come no one comments on the fact that it isn't very nice to copy someone elses hard design work.
Yeah I know almost everything is based on something that came before...
But it still bugs me to see someone come along and copy something as a homebuild, teach others and knock the very company they are making copies of.

Now I am not picking a fight, just saying that it has an effect, a company wants to charge more to get money while they can, and many times not even bother since they just figure guys in garages will copy it.

Your against generic drugs? You only buy name-brand Tylenol?

[grouch]

How come no one comments on the fact that it isn't very nice to copy someone elses hard design work.
Everyone was waiting for you to do it.

[cruiseroutfit]

Sorry, yeah, that wasn't clear. I don't intend on using the Hi-Lift beam. I agree, that the 7lbs or whatever weight savings isn't really worth worrying about compared to the disadvantages of using the Hi-Lift parts.

Gotcha. I'll be interested to see what you come up with, with an item such as these there is plenty of room for some creative changes. :sombrero:

[R_Lefebvre]

I'll be interested to see what you come up with

Just don't hold your breath. So many projects on the go! ;)

[Nibstools]

Well I appreciate all the good input here. I have not had alot of chance to test this yet. the ground in my neck of the woods is frozen solid. I did get the point into the ground and was able to winch my YJ across my driveway with the parking brake on and 4wd set. all four wheels were locked and skidding across the driveway. the unit held up great so far. I am not trying to steal anyones ideas but just don't have 400 bucks to spend on one of those. I may consider replacing the upper bar with a generic tube. Definately need some strong stuff for that. Have less than 100 invested including the Hilift.

[Nibstools]

There was some talk about getting the workings of the hi-lift full of dirt. I found that the jack portion comes of the shaft very easily. Remove the base, set the Up/Down selector to the down position and the whole mechanism will slide right off. So the only thing that will be getting dirty is the shaft. This can be easily wiped off right away and really hosed off later. here are some pics.

[cruiseroutfit]

There was some talk about getting the workings of the hi-lift full of dirt. I found that the jack portion comes of the shaft very easily. Remove the base, set the Up/Down selector to the down position and the whole mechanism will slide right off. So the only thing that will be getting dirty is the shaft. This can be easily wiped off right away and really hosed off later. here are some pics.

Correct, we've been down this path... I simply contend the time involved with disassembling a hi-lift, bolting together your anchor and then reversing that for stowing isn't worth the 7 lbs of potential weight savings. If space is a major issue I could understand.

A different idea, making the main beam of your anchor serve as a handle for your hi-lift. One pin quick removal and it could be longer than the standard hi-lift handle for better leverage (and more jaw busting destructive ability :eek:). And if your hi-lift mounting is based on the mast like many are, you could likely leave it in place while simply pulling the handle out for your anchor device.

[skysix]

A different idea, making the main beam of your anchor serve as a handle for your hi-lift. One pin quick removal and it could be longer than the standard hi-lift handle for better leverage (and more jaw busting destructive ability ). And if your hi-lift mounting is based on the mast like many are, you could likely leave it in place while simply pulling the handle out for your anchor device.

Now there's a concept - so what we then have is the spade, a dedicated length of chain, and a 'connector' piece.

So now one device (with accessories) can be a winch, anchor, jack, clamp, and potentially a weird looking pickaxe/scythe!

[haured]

Was this ever tested? What were the results?

Thanks.

[Sirocco]

Putting our 'Kitty Gripper' to work in the Lake District (UK) 1st time used and I dont regret carrying it. 2nd pic is it stowed in the D90 blade is attached with 2 M12 bolts secured with R clips.

I believe it is a copy of the Pull Pal bought here in the UK 2nd hand for ~$40-$60 Dont think they made that many though.


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I love it :ylsmoke:

G