Give me ONE Reason NOT to buy an FZJ80...

[vengeful]

So....I've always liked the 80s...ever since they first debuted. I've always wanted a Land Cruiser. I am simply obsessed with them.

However, I also love my Pathy. I simply do not want to get rid of it.

In order to get an 80, I'd have to get rid of the Pathy.

Other than that...give me one good reason (other than getting rid of the Pathy, or gas mileage - Pathy already gets crappy mileage), why I should NOT get one...please.

Please talk me out of this...

[Scott Brady]

If you can find one with reasonable mileage you will own one of the greatest expedition vehicles ever brought into the US.

[vengeful]

Gee, thanks...LOL.

Also, for these, what is the expected longevity, and what qualifies as "reasonable miles"? I know that Toyotas have legendary reliability and longevity (I have a friend who has a Cressida w/ a 6-digit odometer that's rolled over TWICE...that's over 2,000,000 miles.)

If I were to buy one, I'd be looking for a Southwestern truck (no rust).

[brittan]

I can't give you a reason...I got a 1997 owned by older snow birds. It has under 50K on the clock. I'm selling my Taco and building on the 80. It will be a devoted trail/expo rig...I'll sell it...if I get a new unimog...

[Redline]

Wow, under 50k! I like my 4Runner lots but maybe I should have thought more and looked harder for one of these?

I didn't want to start with a used 100k rig for my current build. Not that 100k is a lot for one of these great rigs, but it depends on the first caretaker. I have 120k on my old F350 but I know its entire history (with me) and know it will go as long as I want to drive it. I would buy a high milage vehicle from a guy like me, but I tend to do more maintenance than many.

Nobody can tell you not to buy an FZJ80, only good things... is this an omen?



I can't give you a reason...I got a 1997 owned by older snow birds. It has under 50K on the clock. I'm selling my Taco and building on the 80. It will be a devoted trail/expo rig...I'll sell it...if I get a new unimog...

[DaveInDenver]

OK, you want a reason not to buy an 80 series Cruiser? They are expensive to buy and expensive to maintain. At least compared to a Hilux or 4Runner. They are excellent trucks, however I don't miss my Cruiser much at all though. I like buying bikes and skis and beer and stuff too much.

[Christian P.]

I had one and it was one of the greatest truck I ever owned.

What else came with both front and rear e-lockers from the factory?

But I will probably never have another one, unless it's diesel. The gas mileage is horrible. Worst than you can imagine. With accessories and large tires, you will need the long range fuel tank...


:truck:

Christian

[vengeful]

OK, you want a reason not to buy an 80 series Cruiser? They are expensive to buy and expensive to maintain.

Purchase is no problem (Already have the funds stashed away). Maintenance is probably going to be a non-issue, though it will certainly be, at least slightly, more expensive than the Pathy. I'm already dumping about $1500-1800/year in maintenance into the Pathy, between air filters, oil changes/filter, grease, the incessant exhaust system repairs after I trash it off-road, Heli-Coiling every freakin bolt that I need to put in...

And the rust...UGH!

How much can one of these things tow (on pavement)? I've got a VW Rabbit race car that I occasionaly tow to races, but the Pathy just can't handle it with the bigger tires and extra weight of tools and what not.

[Mike S]

So....I've always liked the 80s...ever since they first debuted...give me one good reason (other than getting rid of the Pathy, or gas mileage - Pathy already gets crappy mileage), why I should NOT get one...please.

Please talk me out of this...

CEL

Mike

[vengeful]

What about the CEL? If the emissions systems are in proper working order, it shouldn't be an issue.

[blupaddler]

CEL...Check Engine Light?


Like others have said...
1. Expensive to buy
2. Expensive to maintain
3. Check engine light malodies (EGR, O2 sensors...)
4. Gas mileage sucks (12-14 tops, maybe single digits with a RTT)
5. Cracked leather seats
6. Headgasket issues
7. Slow
8. Comfy
9. Too much stuff available to buy and add on
10. Cheap lift kit
11. Heavy pig @ 6500 lbs



Oh, towing is rated at 5,000 lbs.

But, I won't sell you mine :p

[Bluto]

Dont forget the headgasket issue on some and the oil pump and rear arch leak (again on some). But I figured once you fix these issues its probably good for another +100,000 miles.

One thing for sure its getting harder to find good specimens of FZJ80s - thats why Ill be keeping mine until its illegal to own one in CA. :D

[vengeful]

CEL...Check Engine Light?


Like others have said...
1. Expensive to buy
2. Expensive to maintain
3. Check engine light malodies (EGR, O2 sensors...)
4. Gas mileage sucks (12-14 tops, maybe single digits with a RTT)
5. Cracked leather seats
6. Headgasket issues
7. Slow
8. Comfy
9. Too much stuff available to buy and add on
10. Cheap lift kit
11. Heavy pig @ 6500 lbs



Oh, towing is rated at 5,000 lbs.

But, I won't sell you mine :p


Responses to these:

1) Already handled.
2) Like I said, and I read on Mud, it's not going to be all that much more than my Pathy...
3) I'm used to CEL maladies with the Pathy...was fighting EVAP isseus for 3 years...just ask Mike H!
4) I'm lucky to get 12-14 as it is, so that's no big loss there.
5) Neoprene seat covers fix that! :)
6) Now this one might actually be worth thinking about...but it seems fairly common for mid-90s Yotas to have HG issues. My friend had a 94 4Runner that popped them like JiffyPop.
7) Please...like the VG powered Pathfinders are fast? Besides...I've got the Guzzi and the Rabbit if I wanna go fast. :)
8) Nothing wrong with being comfortable.
9) Nothing wrong with having a good selection of quality parts.
10) Nothing wrong with inexpensive, good quality parts. :)
11) Weight is a mild concern, although 6,500lbs is a bit on the high side (max GVW, not unladen curb weight). Curb weight for the later FZJ80s (through the Standard Truck & 4WD Guide) is 4760lbs with a GVW of 6520lbs.

Am I just trying to justify this? Or is there really NO GOOD REASON to not own one? LOL

[vengeful]

Dont forget the headgasket issue on some and the oil pump and rear arch leak (again on some). But I figured once you fix these issues its probably good for another +100,000 miles.

One thing for sure its getting harder to find good specimens of FZJ80s - thats why Ill be keeping mine until its illegal to own one in CA. :D


Speaking of good specimens...this GEM just sold off-eBay, but WOW!

eBay Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=300101151634&rd=1&rd=1)

[blupaddler]

Responses to these:

2) Like I said, and I read on Mud, it's not going to be all that much more than my Pathy...

Am I just trying to justify this? Or is there really NO GOOD REASON to not own one? LOL

Sorry, I must have missed somewhere...it sounds like you have been reading up on mud. Spend time there reading and asking questions (just make sure you search first).
Here is a link to start off with:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=1012335&postcount=3
http://sleeoffroad.com/newbie/newbie100.htm
I apologize if you have already seen these.






And, if you are looking for a reason not to buy one...Probably the biggest reason of all...You'll have to sell your Pathfinder.

:safari-rig: (that's an 80 btw)

:sombrero:

[vengeful]

And, if you are looking for a reason not to buy one...Probably the biggest reason of all...You'll have to sell your Pathfinder.

That would be a tragedy. The people on the Pathfinder forum would kill me...:D

But, I feel that I've really maxed out it's limitations without some SEVERE modifications to it (not including lockers). And quite frankly...I feel it might be time for a change.

I've spent a lot of time the last week or so cruising around Mud and reading through the FAQs/Stickeys and the more general information threads on the 80s, since that's what I'm looking at. The 100s are gorgeous, but IFS, on a Cruiser?? Please! :D No offense intended to anyone who actually owns a 100 on here, and likes the IFS, but I'm not a fan, personally.

So, apparently, the ExPo's aren't very good at dissuasion. Instead of talking me out of something, you've only sold me more on it, because in the span of this thread, I've been searching, researching, looking at pictures and reading about the 80s. Also, let's not forget about the J2000 thread going, too.

[blupaddler]

Well, good luck with your decision.
If you need any help at all don't be afraid to ask.

Robb

[DaveInDenver]

6) Now this one might actually be worth thinking about...but it seems fairly common for mid-90s Yotas to have HG issues. My friend had a 94 4Runner that popped them like JiffyPop.

Sounds like you're trying to find a airtight reason not to buy a FZJ80 and there really isn't one. It's a complex, mechanical thing and will have issues. Just that it has much fewer serious ones than most platforms. The ruggedness comes with a higher upkeep and lower fuel economy, but there has to be compromise.

Now about the HG issues, the 1FZ engine is about as reliable as a sort of modern engine can be. It is no 2F, it's probably not as long lived as a 3F-E or 22R-E, but you can expect a couple of hundred thousand miles between major work. Even the much maligned 3VZ-FE (the engine I suspect your friend's 4Runner had) was good for a 100K or 150K right out of the box with a faulty HG design that Toyota fixes under warranty for free. A rebuilt 3VZ with the right upgrades (mostly head studs to replace the OEM bolts) is a 200K+ engine. From the factory some had issues worse than others, but they were all offered replacement upgraded HG for free and there's no reason they should be popping that often on the rebuilt engines.

[mike h]

Well Dan, we think alike. I've been obsessed with the 80 series for a while. The basic shape is just like the Pathfinder, 4-door hatch SUV, but on steroids, AWD with a bulletproof suspension/drivetrain right out of the box. I've spent countless hours on mud, and still check the vehicles for sale list weekly. I don't own a Toyota but I subscribe to 4wd Toy Owners magazine. I've come close to buying two 3 LCs in the last year - you may recall my 4-sale post on the Pathfinder forums about 15 months ago? I have logged a few serious trail hours driving a built 80, and it is impressive.

But will I actually buy a LC? It would have to be almost perfect, partially built to my tastes, and then... maybe. Many people love the 80s with a passion, but you also see several serious expo-type people make another choice. A handful of the best built 80s in the US have changed hands in the last year, and I expect more to come. They are being replaced with Tacos, newer LCs or FJs, most commonly.

Part of it is age - most of these built rigs have 150-250k on them, and as every owner agrees, they take a fair amount of cash for care and feeding. Your comment about dumping 1500/yr into the pathy - well, the national average for any vehicle is 1100/year - that's just routine stuff. My Subaru took more than that this year for timing belt, hoses, brakes, water pump... and it is babied.

Buy an LC and you'll drop 1800 on one bumper, 1000 on a winch, 1200 on rubber - I know how you built the Nissan, and with an LC everything costs 2-3x as much.

I dearly love and respect the 80s, but personally, it would be the rare trail where i needed that level of capability, and I'm not really excited about dropping 9k on a stock, non-PM'd, 10 year old, 130k vehicle that serves as the platform for a new build. Or, a well built 80 for 15-19k, and as we all know - even a built rig isn't ever 'done' by our personal standards, PM aside.

I've been looking at the V8 4Runners, which are showing up used at semi-reasonable prices. These will also enjoy a tremendous amount of aftermarket support - so I'm certain a beefy suspension and F/R lockers can be had, as well as full armor, and that is all I need. I don't feel the need for more than 32 - 33 in tires. I'd rather finance a newer truck with 50-75k miles to serve as a build platform, and be confident in it's performance for the next 10 years of ownership.

If I was really planning a yearlong adventure, driving Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, crossing a roadless continent - an 80 may be justified. (But I'd probably get a Mog camper instead.) As far as 'needing' an 80 just to try some hard lines at Moab, that isn't me.

All that extra $$$ that goes into LC ownership can finance a lot of 2-week trips every few months, and I try to spend most of my money financing my travels, not the vehicle used for those travels.

So, there is my argument for dissuasion. Think Taco, Fronty, 4Runner, Xterra - where you can buy a 2 year old vehicle for the price of a 10-15 yr old 80 series, throw 5 grand into suspension, rubber, armor - and follow an 80 just about anywhere on the planet. If you really are following an 80, he should be able to strap you through the few spots you can't pass anyway! And you'll have plenty of extra cash to buy him a beer that night.

m.

[bigreen505]

One issue is size. There is a lot more of it inside, but there is also a lot more of it outside. The most difficult terrain I have seen where this is a real problem is parking lots, but it may be worth considering.

[calamaridog]

I think it really boils down to how you plan on using it.

Do you commute far in this vehicle? Or is it a trail/weekend type vehicle.

How often do you tow?

Have you test driven one? Have you driven one with a lift and tires?

Shouldn't be too hard to find someone near you and check theirs out.

[upcruiser]

Most of the downsides have been already listed. The big one really is age and upkeep in my eyes. If that doesn't bother you and you have your heart set on one, go for it. You only live once. If you don't like it, you can always unload it for what you purchased it for more then likely. A newer alternative probably wouldn't have that luxury. As far as towing, you'll be fine towing your VW. I have a 3FE powered '92 that I tow with occasionally and it does it no sweat. Here's a shot with my old 911 in tow.

[vengeful]

I think it really boils down to how you plan on using it.

I agree completely!


Do you commute far in this vehicle? Or is it a trail/weekend type vehicle.

I have a Motorcycle that I use to commute when it's not snowing/monsooning. And will be buying a small sedan in the next year or so as well.


How often do you tow?

Not very often. Just the race-car to the track.


Have you test driven one? Have you driven one with a lift and tires?

Yes, and yes.


Shouldn't be too hard to find someone near you and check theirs out.

You've never been to Rochester, have you? ;)

[Skillet]

Like all vehicles, it has it's own idiosyncrasies, however...they don't outweigh my enjoyment of this vehicle.

Best truck I have ever owned, even with 207K on the ticker. When it gets to 300K, I will rebuild and keep on truckin'!

I would drive it back into another Mexican adventure tomorrow with no worries.

Also, knock on wood, I have none of the CEL problems as the other folks.

Only reason I can think of is gas. She is a thirsty girl.

[vengeful]

Have I ever told you I love your truck Skillet? :bowdown:

[adventureduo]

I can't really add anything that others haven't already said. I think i was ready for a change when i bought mine and i've been happy ever since. If you've been wanting one for this long, then i don't think you can possibly regret it once you have your own. You'll dig it.

Just get what you want man. You only live once like others said.

[vengeful]

I hear ya...

I'm definitely going to take my time and find the perfect one for me. I'd hate to rush into something and not like it 100%.

[adventureduo]

Yeah, i researched,, bought something else.. sold it and came back to it a year later... Then i drove 6 hours one way to get mine. Well worth it.

[vengeful]

I'm going to focus my search in NM, AZ and California, so I don't get a rust bucket....lol...a little more than 6 hours, but for not having to deal with the rust, I'll make the drive...I've already done it twice.

[MoGas]

The Land Cruiser is one of those few areas of life that the grass is truly greener.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/Mogas/Canyon3-28-07.jpg

You can't have mine but I could get you into a Land Rover........(see sig line)


Dave

[vengeful]

Hehe...I think I'll hold out for an LC.;)

[muchosdiaz]

The FZJ80 is an interesting but expensive rig to run around in. I had a 94 that i bought in 2000 with 85K miles. I put 120K miles before selling it and buying a Honda Pilot. They are reliable an hard to break, but when they do break WOW!!!! If you are going to buy one take it to a good toyota mechanic and have it looked at top to bottom. I took mine to a local mechanic who was supposed to be good and got a clean bill of health..... After I owned it for a couple months I took it to another mechanic for a belt and hose change (nasty little hose hides under the manifold on the driver's side)and found a cracked block. we used alumaseal and got another 20k out of the motor before it needed to be replaced(4500$ for used one). I had the check engine light issue which usually turned out to be a clogged EGR vacumn filter which I would replace every 30k. All that being said it was an impressive truck and even stock with stock sized BFG AT tires it went anywhere I wanted to.

A few observations:
1. Gas mileage was usually 13-15 around town or on the highway
2. Never ever let the temp gauge budge above normal. These engines are VERY sensitive to overheating. Even if the needle does not get into the red, but just goes a little above the norm the head gasket is at risk( I learned the hard way. the needle jumped up a little pulling a trailer in colorado and at the next stop there was oil in the coolent. Granted It is hard to overheat these things if the cooling system is in good shape, but watch out.
3. towing capacity is rated at 5000. this is pretty acurate. We towed a 4000 pound travel trailer for awhile in Texas without a problem. After the trailer was stolen we bought a chalet hard sided pop up that weighed about 3000 loaded and towed it from Austin to the Black Hills, over to Glacier and down through Yellowstone, the Tetons, Dinosaur monument in Utah and then back down to Austin via the Million dollar highway and we could maintain 60 on the flats, but the passes would get us down to 45 at times.

Would I own another one.... you bet, in fact I have a line on a 93 with lockers and cloth interior..................

[Skillet]

Have I ever told you I love your truck Skillet? :bowdown:

Why, thank you sir.

:sombrero:

:safari-rig:

[calamaridog]

It sounds like the perfect vehicle for you:luxhello:

[pskhaat]

The LC engine design is roughly engineered for 3 rebuilds in it's life. It was designed to be beat to death repeatedly every day for 30 years. I wouldn't blink an eye at 100k miles. Durango_60 is selling his FZJ80 with 200k on the clock and it purrs like it's brand new. If it is bothersome, factor in the cost of a complete engine rebuild at a reputable LC shop and re-do your TCO: I think you'd still be impressed.

There are only 2 reasons I can think of NOT to buy one: 1) Fuel mileage. It's horrendous. 2) No manual transmission. Uhh, that's about it. Seriously. My 1996 FZJ80 is the most pleasing and reliable machine I've ever had the pleasure of owning.

I fix things immediately when needed, and they're few and far between. Yes, I did have the HG changed pre-emptively and I've only had MIL/CEL when something actually went wrong and that was only once with an EGR tube that came unplugged.

FWIW, if I had the $ to do it all again, I'd spend the money on a 91-92 FJ80 (instead of 93+ FJZ80) and use the remainder to do the fun expedition things. The 91-92 FJ80s are quite amazing and different beasts unto themselves.

[adventureduo]

Scott, why would you want to go with a 91-92? Just curious.

All the good stuff started in '93.

[vengeful]

I was wondering the same thing actually.

And personally, I think I'd go with a 96 or 97 for two reasons. One, they're newer, so less corrosion, and fewer miles, and two...they're equipped with OBD2.

[pskhaat]

Since you asked :)

FJ80s have:
Vented front brake backing plates
Majority cloth seats
Strong A442 bus tranny
Mechanical center diff
Front PTO winch capable
H55f swapable
2F component integration
Engine-off cooling fan
Easy setup for expedition 3F/2F carb and manual dial BFE fuel dizzy
15" factory wheel option
Less expensive
Can read engine codes from the flashing dash CEL, no need for OBD scanner.
Can take all years 80 series accessories and mods.
You can bump up displacement with a factory 2F blockIt is lacking factory diff locks, but so are many FZJ80s. It is lacking FF rear, but so is the US 100 series.

[vengeful]

On the later 80s...are the brakes too large to fit 15" wheels? Or were they just equipped with larger wheels for stylistic effect?

[pskhaat]

Yes, the rear calipers rub a 15" wheel. There are a few who have taken the grinder to the caliper, but structural brake parts aren't something I'd feel comfortable adjusting :)

[Grim Reaper]

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/313056537.html
:drool: This is exactly what I want to replace both my wife’s Honda and our Suburban. It has the lockers. It would be my wife’s DD and it should pull our Airstream (3,000lb) and be a mild trail rig for the family when camping with the Airstream. Eventually be my trail rig :safari-rig:

Unfortunately I'm not ready to buy till I sell the Suburban. :(

[blupaddler]

Since you asked :)

FJ80s have:
Vented front brake backing plates
Majority cloth seats
Strong A442 bus tranny
Mechanical center diff
Front PTO winch capable
H55f swapable
2F component integration
Engine-off cooling fan
Easy setup for expedition 3F/2F carb and manual dial BFE fuel dizzy
15" factory wheel option
Less expensive
Can read engine codes from the flashing dash CEL, no need for OBD scanner.
Can take all years 80 series accessories and mods.
You can bump up displacement with a factory 2F blockIt is lacking factory diff locks, but so are many FZJ80s. It is lacking FF rear, but so is the US 100 series.


Thanks Scott.
I was unaware of the PTO availability.
The 5 spd would be cool as well.

[adventureduo]

I'd rather keep my 4.5 liter instead the PTO option. That is if you could even find a PTO winch setup. The PTO is super rare to find. Not to mention probably a slow winch. But still bitchen nonetheless to have as a factory option. Ill keep my full float rear axle and fat disc breaks too. I'd rather have 15" wheels though. Way more options for the expedition type wheels out there. Lockers I can give or take. You can always install ARB's.

But back to the 4.5 liter. I can't imagine driving around with the 4.0. The rig is already a dog with how much weight i have on it... i can only imagine how slow it would be with the 4.0.

[pskhaat]

i can only imagine how slow it would be with the 4.0.
Yep, it's bad, but not as bad as you might think. As you know though, the 2F and 3F designs (overstroked for one) keep the torque curve rather steep and peaks very early in the RPM range vs. the torque apex of the overbored 4.5 at IIRC ~3200rpm?

FJ803FE on the ExPo here (who unfortunately is quite an idle user) and I are out with our rigs often. Driving his FJ80 you can certainly tell that there is a more immediate feel of power to rock climbing and the truck due to to the 3F's torque rise is able to power over some obstacles that take the 4.5 a little more of the skinny pedal to do. Put both rigs on an open flat sand road though and there's no comparison.

The absolute torque numbers aren't there, but the `quality' of the torque in it's RPM range is truly outstanding on the old 3F, plus being effectively a destroked 2F can pull a few more rotations to yield some higher HP (granted not much).

The 4.5 is still an awesome engine though...

Oh, I should clarify the PTO winch is really just any PTO winch that you could put up there, because you can mate an H41/H42/H55f easily and thus have access to the various tcases with PTO gears.

[dieselcruiserhead]

I have to say that a 3FE with a 5 speed is really woken up.. The 3FE is sort of the last of the real land cruiser heavy duty motors IMO because they are bomber and very heavy duty (actually designed for those rebuilds previously mentioned) and the 1FZ-FE is more along the lines of a modern Japanese engine, designed to be.. "replaceable..." The A440F trans is great but sucks a huge amount of power out of one of them.. I have driven a FJ62 with a standard, night and day over a stock FJ62 with the auto... They get a bad rap because of the power loss, but again I think the 3FE is a sweet engine. Pretty much the pinnacle of F/2F/3F engine design...

So my $.02 on it.. Would I still buy a 3FE over a 1FZ-FE, good question, possibly but probably not. Those factory features and the increased power of the 1FZ-FE still seals the deal on it for me..

FYI, I had a lot of trouble selling a 1FZ-FE I had that was in basically perfect shape for only $1200.. Eventually it sold on ebay.. They can be found used easily enough.. Proffitts is putting 4BTs into them also.. I think that would be killer, particularly with a manual... Cheers, Andre :beer:

[dd113]

I love the 3FE and have owned, wheeled, rolled, killed them as my only rides for 8+ years. As much as I love it I would not go with it for any real reason other than price or availibility. If you fiind a sweet FJ 80 really cheap it might be worth snapping up but the FZJ is sooooo much nicer. My ideal truck is a '94 with the FF/rear disk.

Not sure if this was mentioned but...

FJ have a bastard Ft axle that only interchanges parts with other FJs (Bierfields are the same croos the board)

FJ have wimpy ft brakes and only have SF rear w/drums. Brake parts are FJ specific

Bumper and all front end sheet metal and lights are FJ only. Sucks when you wreck it; sucks more when you wreck it again, starts to really piss you off the 3rd time, 4th time you jsut leave it.

My 91 has 96 ft axle and a 95 FF rear w/disk which is a nice set up.

There are a bunch if hypothetical issues with the 1FZE but reather few real life issues outside of head gasket.

My half assed opinion is that if ya got a FJ build it and accept it for what it is; if you are buying try to get a 93-to 2/95 FZJ

[upcruiser]

My FJ80 has been great. It was my daily driver for a number of years and served it well. Even with 33's and stock gears I never found any issues with the power. I think the only place that I would really feel it was too underpowered was if I lived in Denver and had to drive I70 west frequently. That's a bit frustrating. I've driven the '93's plus and can definately appreciate them too, but if I was shopping for a nice example 80 and a good '91-'92 came around, I wouldn't pass it up due to the engine and rear axle concerns. Especially for an expedition platform.

[BPMOU]

I just read this whole post and I couldn't agree more with the previous posts. That being said, I bought my 80 last Feb and I have loved every minute of it. I have had to do minor things like brakes, base line, O2 sensors etc over the last year. I thought about selling it back in Nov, but decided not to. Now, with a baby on the way, three labs that usually travel with us when we are out and about, the wife and I are thinking about moving to a full size truck and an old accord as a get around car as my wife will only be working a couple of days a week. For me the 80 is a great vehicle that is stout and requires the maintenance that a 50K vehicle requires. For me, the HG issue, and front axle rebuild up around the bend and the lack of time is making move closer to trading her for a full size truck that would fit our needs.

In the end it boils down to what you want and need. If the pathfinder has suited your needs then I bet an 80 would not leave you wanting. I want to keep the 80, but for me it isn't really feasible.

[pskhaat]

I have to say that a 3FE with a 5 speed is really woken up..

No doubt. I have my simple H42 behind my 3F-E and it's almost a consistent 19% gearing drop across each of the 4 gears, it's like driving with 4.88s and sans the toque converter the thing is downright peppy, but with the higher RPM range has yet full drivabiltiy between shift points.

Another really dumb thing I like about them is you can start the F/2F/3F with the ``Toyota Tool,'' if your starter/battery fails, you can hand crank the thing (not recommended, but I've done it).

Outside of the quite obvious diesel, I think a non-US carb'd/dizzy'd FJ80 with manual tranny is the near perfect expedition platform.

[vengeful]

Why carb'd?

They're very finicky about altitude changes.
They're very grumpy at steep angles.

These are two reasons that I wouldn't want a carb'd vehicle on an expedition, since you're likely going to be dealing with fairly vast altitude changes, and possibly some pretty steep inclines/declines, and off-camber stuff.

Obviously, a diesel would be my first choice, but a fuel-injected gas motor would be put above carb'd, at least for me.

[pskhaat]

Why carb'd?

It's really my total inability at diagnosing and fixing FI. I have before run some fairly questionable fuels and would be just a lot more comfortable taking a carb'd rig (with adjustable dizzy) through SA for instance. I am confident with help I could limp it somewhere from harm's way pouring fuel into the barrels.

But of course, I actually have never done that (drive through SA) so I speak totally in the speculative voice :O

But in reality, FI is so choice I agree that anything reasonable FI is superior.

[dieselcruiserhead]

Dave why do you favor the earlier FZJ80's, because of the bigger earlier trans?

[Christian P.]

It's kind of late right now so I may be confused, but FZJ80's came with 1HZ in the rest of the world, right?

so with this influx of 1HZ engine in the U.S. lately, how difficult would it be to do a conversion? I suppose the cost would be prohibitive...but it would be so sweet to get a FZJ80 diesel/5 speed for a daily driver...

[Christian P.]

here's one on Ebay for you...I think it has everything:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1996-FZJ80-Toyota-Land-Cruiser-119K-Fully-Loaded_W0QQitemZ140108861189QQihZ004QQcategoryZ644 3QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Grim Reaper]

It's really my total inability at diagnosing and fixing FI. I have before run some fairly questionable fuels and would be just a lot more comfortable taking a carb'd rig (with adjustable dizzy) through SA for instance. I am confident with help I could limp it somewhere from harm's way pouring fuel into the barrels.

But of course, I actually have never done that (drive through SA) so I speak totally in the speculative voice :O

But in reality, FI is so choice I agree that anything reasonable FI is superior.
Carbs from the 80's...HELL NO! give me FI all the time. Most miserable repair I have ever done on our Honda was rebuild the carb. The carb rebuild was a piece of cake its all the plumbing on the 80's emissions carbs that brings the suck. They have a computer and 6,000 ft of vacuum lines. They are more difficult to deal with then the FI.

You over think FI. Fuel injection is actually quite easy to work on. Test meter, paper clip and the FSM and you are set. The FI on Toyota is a Bosch design. It dates back to the 60's. Very simple and with the diagnostics flow chart in the manual its very easy work on.

[DaveInDenver]

Carbs from the 80's...HELL NO! give me FI all the time. Most miserable repair I have ever done on our Honda was rebuild the carb. The carb rebuild was a piece of cake its all the plumbing on the 80's emissions carbs that brings the suck. They have a computer and 6,000 ft of vacuum lines. They are more difficult to deal with then the FI.

You over think FI. Fuel injection is actually quite easy to work on. Test meter, paper clip and the FSM and you are set. The FI on Toyota is a Bosch design. It dates back to the 60's. Very simple and with the diagnostics flow chart in the manual its very easy work on.
I have to admit that given the whole spectrum, an old carb'd truck would be my choice. But this assumes no emissions. When you add emissions, the EFI truck IMO becomes the winner. But then again, Grim, we are talking about the EFI like on a 22R-E or 3F-E. It's a pretty simple design and has the benefit of self diagnosing that a carb truck does not. Newer designs are so much more complex that I think in the field repairs become difficult. But the 22R-E EFI system will run in limp mode as long as the major parts are there (MAF, TPS, O2). If a temp or knock sensor is bad, the CEL comes on, but it still runs. Basic EFI systems can adjust for bad gas, radical changes in elevation, temp swings. This stuff is nice here, where you might leave Denver at 85F, 5280' and end up at 11,000' at 42F. The engine just does what it needs to run. No sputtering on high angle stuff, no issues with stalling.

[mike h]

here's one on Ebay for you...I think it has everything:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1996-FZJ80-Toyota-Land-Cruiser-119K-Fully-Loaded_W0QQitemZ140108861189QQihZ004QQcategoryZ644 3QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Well Dan, there you go. Disregard everything i wrote about in my previous post - this is exactly the type of LC I would buy, if I was ready to buy, right now... today. Problem is, I know I could get that financed with a phone call... but I wiil do my best to remain calm.

One more season... one more season...

The internal cage - now that is sweet. I wonder what the seller needs to make it happen, my guess is this one will go for mid to upper 20s. But, other than this board and mud, there are probably less than a dozen people seriously looking for a LC built to this level, right now, this week.

But Dan is...



m.

[Skillet]

here's one on Ebay for you...I think it has everything:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1996-FZJ80-Toyota-Land-Cruiser-119K-Fully-Loaded_W0QQitemZ140108861189QQihZ004QQcategoryZ644 3QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Minus the bling, that is a sweet looking ride.

Great color for those hot Arizona days too.

;)

[kcowyo]

....give me one good reason (other than getting rid of the Pathy, or gas mileage - Pathy already gets crappy mileage), why I should NOT get one...please.

Please talk me out of this...

I won't talk you out of it, but I'll tell you what keeps me from picking up an 80 and why I still look at FJ62's. And this is coming from a longtime TLCA member, I'm no hater.

The flippin' prices of a 10 year old LC are absurd! :violent-smiley-031:

This is not a knock on the product, their quality or reputation. I recognize that they are exceptional on & off-road SUV's. But I "cruise" eBay, Autotrader & Craigslist often for LC's and seldom do I see a 10 year old 80, with less than 100K, for under $15K.

Banks won't lend on a vehicle that old and I don't carry $15K in cash. And even if I did, I wouldn't cough it up for a hunk of metal. Many 80's have 120K-200K miles and people still want over $10K. 80's with over 200K still go for between $7k -$9k. Ridiculous....

There is the random good deal on an 80 out there, but they are the exception rather than the rule. I feel people want too much for 'em because they're a status symbol, not due to their exceptional off-road prowess and reliability.

I'm not going to pay over $10K for a 10 year old vehicle with over 100K miles on it, because a bunch of Dr.'s wives have driven the prices through the roof on their way to Starbucks. No matter how cool desertdude, blupaddler, Skillet, Boston Mangler and SoCalFJ make them look. ;)

It makes more financial sense to me to pay $4K or less, for an equally capable FJ62, in good condition with 160K miles. Same rep, same quality, same heritage, same aftermarket support, etc. I don't think the 62's are quite the lookers that the 80's are, but I like Toyota's oddball offerings best anyway.

[Life_in_4Lo]

here's one on Ebay for you...I think it has everything:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1996-FZJ80-Toyota-Land-Cruiser-119K-Fully-Loaded_W0QQitemZ140108861189QQihZ004QQcategoryZ644 3QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That is Landcruiserphil's 80! He is on Mud. Wow, I'm surprised he's selling it. I think that would a great truck to own.

Here is another- who I know personally- and this one would be a steal at what he's asking. I was so tempted even tho I don't need another 80!
Big thing here is he already did the HG and is running the uber rare Austrailan Safari turbo.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=145705

[DaveInDenver]

I feel people want too much for 'em because they're a status symbol, not due to their exceptional off-road prowess and reliability.

It makes more financial sense to me to pay $4K or less, for an equally capable FJ62, in good condition with 160K miles. Same rep, same quality, same heritage, same aftermarket support, etc. I don't think the 62's are quite the lookers that the 80's are, but I like Toyota's oddball offerings best anyway.
You make good points, but I thought these two statements are worth taking a look at. They are status symbols right now primarily for their offroad capability. They are very similar to a 62, but with coil springs and that is not a minimal difference. I really like the 60-series, but have always though the 62 looked a bit pieced together compared to a 60. I like the round headlights! The 80 is a very nice looking truck and add the flexy suspension, hard to beat. Right now there is rush to get them within TLCA and the 'Yota enthusiast crowd, where as a few years ago you'd be cast out with the Hilux owners if you showed up to wheel one. Then someone recognized that despite their girth, they wheel darn good (about the same time that the mini truck craze started, too!). I agree that 80 are overpriced, but I also don't think they are any more crazy than any other old Cruiser. I know a guy who bought a stockish FJ60 for $4K with about 200K. This thing has a poor repaint job (they painted the hub locks, which took him a day of cleaning to get to work freely again), needs a fair amount of engine love and the tranny isn't happy. There is no way I'd pay $4K for what is essentially a straight body that will need a lot more money to bring up to where I would feel comfortable. I paid $4500 for my truck when it was 9 years old, just barely turned 100K miles from the original owner and I thought that was premium at the time!

[kcowyo]

They are status symbols right now primarily for their offroad capability.

Right now there is rush to get them within TLCA and the 'Yota enthusiast crowd....

In the TLCA crowd they are a status symbol for their off-road capability, I agree.

But in the much larger general populace they are a status symbol because they cost more than an Explorer or an Envoy. The typical buyer, I feel, is driving the prices, not the guys who go to Baja or Tuk.

You don't need a coil suspension and diff locks to go to Pilates.....

[DaveInDenver]

In the TLCA crowd they are a status symbol for their off-road capability, I agree.

But in the much larger general populace they are a status symbol because they cost more than an Explorer or an Envoy. The typical buyer, I feel, is driving the prices, not the guys who go to Baja or Tuk.

You don't need a coil suspension and diff locks to go to Pilates.....
Do you think that a 10 or 12 year old LC with 150K on the clock and worn out leather seats impresses the rest of the foursome at the country club? My guess is that's why the used 100 series and 4th gen 4Runner prices are high, but I think the 80 series inflation is a more pedestrian crowd. People looking for something to replace (or augment) the built 40 series. Sure seems like the majority of the guys in the Rising Sun who have recently bought 80 series already have a 40 series and are looking for a way to keep the checkbook holder and lil' TLCA'er happy while in Moab. I think in general Cruiser prices are high, they are not terribly common and their reputation precedes them. But I think the current 80 series bump is artificial due to a bit of hording by Yota people. Same thing happened about 5 or 10 years ago with the 40 series. People would be asking $25K for a nice one.

[Christian P.]

It makes more financial sense to me to pay $4K or less, for an equally capable FJ62, in good condition with 160K miles. Same rep, same quality, same heritage, same aftermarket support, etc. I don't think the 62's are quite the lookers that the 80's are, but I like Toyota's oddball offerings best anyway.

I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you on this one.

I have owned both models for a long period of time, and the 80 series is far superior on many aspects.

More comfort, more power, safer (airbags), less noisy, power everything, etc. It's a more modern SUV, but still build like a tank. The major downsides are gas mileage, parts are a bit more expensive and no manual transmission (in the US).


The FJ62 looks nice in my opinion, it's a bit smaller for offroad and parts/add-ons are less expensive. But at 160000 miles you may be looking for a head gasket (happened on mine) and a rebuild tranny.

I even bought a FJ62 after my relationship at the time ended with my ex-girlfriend keeping the 80.... Bad decision. After I added the ARB bull bar, Kaymar rear bumper, long range fuel tank, roof rack, roof top tent, etc, it became totally underpowered and gas mileage was barely touching 2 digits. It was a real challenge to climb sand dunes, as the truck did not have enough power.

My original plan was to use the 62 for our RTW trip but I ended up selling it on Ebay. I should have started with a 80 as a platform. Live and learn.

Furthermore, you can get a 80 with both diff locks. I don't know if they are as good as the ARBs, but to add 2 diff locks on a 62 will cost you almost $2K.

If I had to choose one again, I would go with the 80 in a minute. It is such a sweet ride.

I agree that they are expensive, but not over-inflated.
Depending where you are located, you can find them on Craiglist for $8-9$

[Christian P.]

here's a couple finds for today...

1994 $7900
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/car/312465057.html

1990 $9300
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/car/314799913.html

1995 $7000
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/car/314009119.html

1988 $2250
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/car/313517293.html

1988 $2500
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/313292302.html

1993 $6000
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/car/313350882.html

so many choices...

[SOAZ]

Buy this or I swear to god I will, if someone wants to buy my 4runner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-Land-Cruiser-1996-FZJ80-Toyota-Land-Cruiser-119K-Fully-Loaded_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6443QQihZ004QQit emZ140108861189QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
:punk03: :punk03:

[Christian P.]

Right now there is rush to get them within TLCA and the 'Yota enthusiast crowd, where as a few years ago you'd be cast out with the Hilux owners if you showed up to wheel one. Then someone recognized that despite their girth, they wheel darn good (about the same time that the mini truck craze started, too!).


This is a very good example of social perceptions and influences.
I remember when I moved to CA 5 years ago a 80 series was perceived as the perfect soccer-mom mall crawler. I had a different idea because I had seen them in Europe and Africa, under different packages. Eventually they became recognized for their offroad capabilities, perhaps as the prices went down and more and more people could afford them. I am sure someone could write a thesis on this.

I would not be surprise if the exact same thing happen with a Serie 100. In Australia they are all over the place now. Sure some of them has front solid axle instead of IFS, but not all of them. They also have diesel, but beside the gas mileage, I am sure the V8 is pretty sweet. As price goes down for the serie 100, I am convinced more and more people will start taking them to Baja...

I know that I don't see them with the same eye anymore...just look at this beauty I saw in front of the ARB dealership in Sydney..

[Skillet]

One thing to watch out for if you are buying...

Many of these clowns who are selling put "locking diff" on the list.

This could be referring to the center diff only.

You have to double check for the infamous dial.

If you are looking for lockers, that is.

[kcowyo]

Do you think that a 10 or 12 year old LC with 150K on the clock and worn out leather seats impresses the rest of the foursome at the country club?

Only when they find out how much they got on trade-in for it at Stevinson Toyota.....


I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you on this one.

I have owned both models for a long period of time, and the 80 series is far superior on many aspects.

More comfort, more power, safer (airbags), less noisy, power everything, etc. It's a more modern SUV, but still build like a tank. The major downsides are gas mileage, parts are a bit more expensive and no manual transmission (in the US).

You can disagree, no big deal. I'm just stating why I won't buy an 80 at this time, even though I'm a big fan.

Far superior? I'll disagree back but there's no need to split hairs. The 80 should be improved over the 62's. That's the idea of presenting new models, for improvements and upgrades. I just feel the 62's at their current market price at this time are a better value and smarter buy than the 80's and their current high asking prices. When the 80's taper off like the 40's and 60's did, I would probably jump on one.

See, maybe to the housewife who drives her Landcruiser to the plastic surgeon to get the fat sucked out of her *** and have it shoved back into her forehead, fancy accruements like heated leather, airbags, center diff lock and a sunroof are worth paying for. But not to me when all I want is the coilover suspension. I would rather pay less for less, than pay too much for too much.

And the headgasket went on my old '89 FJ62 at 189K. An $800 rebuild kit (the equivalent of an ARB bullbar) and we were back in business. Last I heard it was approaching 300K miles.

But back to the OP, these are the reasons, even though I love the 80 series LC's, why I wouldn't buy one at this time.

[blupaddler]

See, maybe to the housewife who drives her Landcruiser to the plastic surgeon to get the fat sucked out of her *** and have it shoved back into her forehead, fancy accruements like heated leather, airbags, center diff lock and a sunroof are worth paying for.

But back to the OP, these are the reasons, even though I love the 80 series LC's, why I wouldn't buy one at this time.


LOL!!!
Thanks, that reminds me...I have to confirm my appointment with the DR. Only my fat is going to my chest, pec. implants baby!
:orngartis

For me the decision on the 80 vs. 60 came down to comfort. If I am going to be driving long distances. I want to be comfortable, not that a 60 isn't, its just that an 80 is more comfy. (minus the T100 seats)

[adventureduo]

One thing to watch out for if you are buying...

Many of these clowns who are selling put "locking diff" on the list.

This could be referring to the center diff only.

You have to double check for the infamous dial.

If you are looking for lockers, that is.

Yeah and.. now i've heard of people buying the actual dial switch, popping it in and telling you it has lockers to get a few more bucks out of the sale. I would check the vin# and crawl under the rig to make sure too.

[Skillet]

Yeah and.. now i've heard of people buying the actual dial switch, popping it in and telling you it has lockers to get a few more bucks out of the sale. I would check the vin# and crawl under the rig to make sure too.

When I first got my vehicle, my dash locker lights would not come on and I thought it was just a bad switch. Then I read about cases of what you mentioned and I puckered up a little. I ran out and crawled around, verified the presence of lockers then discovered that someone had unplugged the main unit under the dash on the PS.

I plugged it back in and the thing locked right up, both front and rear. Has worked great ever since.

Still cannot figure out why someone would unplug it, unless someone with knowledge of the truck did not want another driver, with less knowledge, locking those things in on the pavement and cruising to the Doctors for some adipose removal. :D

The world may never know.

[SLOwag]

Yeah and.. now i've heard of people buying the actual dial switch, popping it in and telling you it has lockers to get a few more bucks out of the sale. I would check the vin# and crawl under the rig to make sure too.

WOW!

Thanks for that gem of info. I'm kind of lurking for the right 80 or 100 and hoping it will fall in my lap...now I'm a little wiser.

[CodyLX450]

The ONLY downside I see after owning mine from stock to half modded, is the FRUSTRATION of seeing how much more expensive the bolt ons like roof rack, bumpers, sliders, etc......compared to more common rigs like Wranglers.

The thing that never gets old tho, are the people who think my 97 is some brand new truck Lexus came out with....and how shocked they are that it is 11 years old and has over 150,000 miles.

[Jenny Cruiser]

There are a lot of 80s around here, but there are at least 3-4 Xterras for every 80 I see and every one I pass checks out my slow, gas guzzling, 14 year old - expensive to maintain ride with that "Damn. That's a nice Land Cruiser." look on their faces. Go get you one. This is a good time of year to pick them up. :)

[blupaddler]

I know they are espensive, but you must remember they started at $50k ten years ago. (although I still miss my T)

:lurk:

[Diesel Joe]

No, I wont.:PROFSheriffHL: