DesertRose
04-18-2007, 01:35 AM
A huge thank you to everyone who has taken the time to help me research and decide on a project vehicle.
The discussions here really helped me to investigate the definitions of Economical and Ecological in the context of an overlander vehicle.
First, allow me to recap my initial criteria for this project - and more importantly, why I embarked on it in the first place:
Why?
- I thought it would be interesting to try to find a real 'ecological' and 'economical' vehicle that is comfortable on the highway, easy enough to drive in the city, and could be used for overlanding (we already own a superb FJ40 and a project Land Rover 88).
- I do this every once in a while (swap vehicles) - I love vehicles, especially 4x4s, and though I adore my 2000 Tacoma, it has its faults: poor gas economy for its size, seats only 2, and the cargo area is inconvenient and mostly unused (I loved the convenience of my 4-door FJ55, for example). [Plus, now is the best time to sell it, while it still has plenty of equity.]
[I would add that another criteria is that we plan to increase our overlanding this year and for the foreseeable future - plenty more Mexico, northeast Canada, and definitely a trans-Africa . . . and the Taco is nowhere near my own first choice for that.]
So in the spirit of some recent discussions in the Conservation section about environmentally conscious overlanding, I wanted to see if it was possible to find a truck that fit my criteria. [And keeping in mind, because I have committed right now to helping start up a conservation organization and am making about 1/4 my potential income, I cannot afford to finance anything - if I could, I would have been seriously considering supporting the manufacturers who are coming out with 4x4 hybrids and efficient diesels.]
Below is a list of criteria, and my true secret goal revealed. :roost:
ECO-OVERLANDER PROJECT
“Economical & Ecological Overlanding Vehicle”
Primary Goal:
- Replace 2000 4WD Tacoma TRD (V6, Xcab,188K miles, OME, rear-locker, ARE topper, ARB)
- Est. sale price $11,000 [this is the low end figure, I expect a bit more]
Secret Goal:
- Have enough $ left over to buy a 250cc dual-sport moto :luxhello:
Criteria for new vehicle:
- Must be high-fuel-economy (i.e. - over 30 mpg average if possible; I don't consider 20 mpg to be remotely economical under my definition)
- Diesel or able to convert to diesel a major plus
- Seating for four
- Prefer 4WD or AWD; low-range very desirable but necessary? not sure
- Comfortable on highway
- Airbags
- NHTSA rating 4-5 a big plus
Okay, to recap a little more, I started with the reasoning that smaller might be more economical, I looked at things like the Isuzu Vehi-Cross and the Tourag, but was shocked to find out (duh) they are really very heavy and aimed at performance rather than economy. I seriously considered them - SO much fun! - but could not justify cruddy fuel economy. No point in losing the value of my Taco to that.
Then I started looking at cross-overs like RAV4s and CR-Vs, but again - check out the attached PDF chart (I'm a nerd) - they are not that economical. (I include an index factor for economy to compare mileage economy between diesel and gas.)
Chart of comparisons for Eco-Overland "Lites"
(http://www.jandrhanson.com/overland/Eco-Overlander.pdf)
Then I looked at small vehicles that were diesel - the Liberty - or the Suzukis that can be pretty easily converted to VW diesels. Now we see real economy here.
But the Liberty blows my budget, and frankly, I'm not sure I like the styling all that much. Ironically, Jeep is pleased because the Liberty is appealing to women because they say women want a smaller-sized but still-macho looking SUV, and my reaction is that it's too "cute" and I prefer a Land Cruiser overall . . . maybe it's because I just spent a few weeks driving Jonathan's gorgeous FJ40 nearly every day, and really, really enjoyed it . . . especially the expedition feel, and yes, the coolness and attention I got (I loved all the thumbs-ups and the 'dude' signs I got!).
The Zukes are very neat - tons and tons of cool accessories, with little ARBs (dare I say 'darling?') and racks and lockers, too. But safety and noise on the highway are a huge minus - they're pretty tinny. The Vitaras are better . . . but priced a little high for doing the swap to diesel, which would cost about $4K to do it right. Also, VW diesels have pretty low HP and torque (except the TDI, which are much harder to swap).
In our search and discussion thread, someone did find a Sidekick with a swap already nearly done, for $8500. Not bad . . . but by that time I had already begun to sway back toward a Toyota. In the end, turns out, I'm a Toyota Girl at heart.
So what I found out in my research is that the more modern these "small SUVs" have gotten, the heavier, the more powerful, and the more gas-guzzling they have gotten (though more safe). They're not economical at all.
Additionally, I used a really cool web tool at the EPA website to compare real ecological traits. www.fueleconomy.gov (http://www.fueleconomy.gov)
What really started to clear my dazed mind and make my mission a little easier was to compare both fuel economy with carbon emissions and particulates emissions.
Since I want to be as ecological as possible, I learned that of course hybrids are tops for low emissions and carbon, but was surprised to learn that a newer Corolla and a 2wd truck or RAV4 aren't that far off from each other, but a Volvo XC pollutes way more than an H2! (How many Volvo drivers have green-slogan bumper stickers and give Hummer drivers dirty looks, hmm?)
And all THAT research lead me back to looking at alternative fuels, if I want to drive an economical and ecological overlander. I of course looked at LPG/CNG conversions, because of the economical price, but they are still burning dinosaurs and releasing as much carbon as a gas car. Hybrids are great . . . but I can't afford a new Highlander Hybrid, alas.
So THAT lead me back to . . . diesel! Biodiesel really has huge potential to be a clean-burning, renewable resource that can, if managed well, help improve the economies of developing nations.
Furthermore, my nearest city (Tucson) has a burgeoning bio-diesel community, including a large-scale project to collect restaurant waste oil and turn it into high-quality biodiesel for sale locally through retailers. Now you can't get more ecological than that. So that sold me on diesel engines.
veldtschoen and asking me, "Why on earth did you do that to me?"]
And now you are wondering: why not shut up and present the winner? Pleeaasse?
Okay. Drumroll, please.
And
the
winner
is
http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/fj60_RH_0407.jpg
1984 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ60
to be fitted with a low-mileage 1HZ Toyota diesel with 5-speed manual transmission
-Arizona vehicle
-185,000 miles
-Desert Tan
-Engine and manual transmission still in good shape (though needs seals, radiator fix, etc) and the transmission will be used in Jonathan's 1973 FJ40
-1HZ will get approx 30 mpg highway and run bio-diesel
-Already has Old Man Emu suspension
- Has a huge long-range 40 gallon fuel tank
- Needs air conditioning compressor and service
-Negotiating for a parts vehicle to come with it (a 1989 FJ62 with a salt-water-ruined engine and frame) - it has a SafariGard front bumper and lights that will swap onto the 60 right away
- Interior in okay shape, will need new carpet, seat covers, and door panels to be really cherry, but very serviceable now; will need a new center console (the lockable Tuffy is what I want, for my 2M radio)
- Needs new right front fender (bondo job from hell) - but can get that off the 62
Price
- $2,500 for the vehicle(s)
- $8,000 estimated for engine/trans and labor (Jonathan, me, and nephew Jake, a master mechanic and Toyota genius - Tacominator.com)
It meets all my criteria except air bags.
It will be economical in that it will get very good mileage, and I can carry more than 1 passenger.
It will be ecological in that it is a "recycled" vehicle, will burn biodiesel (I plan to try to buy local and/or US sourced-crop-biodiesel) and thus burn cleaner on renewable fuel source.
But what really, really sold me was driving this one. It is so comfortable on rough (really rough) roads - the OME suspension is sublime - and it has that indescribable Land Cruiser capability that telepaths through the steering wheel: "I can take you anywhere you want to go . . . let's leave tomorrow . . . "
Timeline: will be selling the Tacoma in the next few months while also looking for the right engine, then we'll have the cash to finish it up right and hopefully, end up with enough for a Yamaha XT225 or a Kawasaki Super Sherpa . . . stay tuned!
I found this image from 1988, overlanding in Baja with my FJ55 and our first 2 sea kayaks - I was 24 years old! So you can see Land Cruisers really are my first love (after all, that's what Jonathan was driving when I met him . . . ]
http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/RH-FJ55.jpg
The discussions here really helped me to investigate the definitions of Economical and Ecological in the context of an overlander vehicle.
First, allow me to recap my initial criteria for this project - and more importantly, why I embarked on it in the first place:
Why?
- I thought it would be interesting to try to find a real 'ecological' and 'economical' vehicle that is comfortable on the highway, easy enough to drive in the city, and could be used for overlanding (we already own a superb FJ40 and a project Land Rover 88).
- I do this every once in a while (swap vehicles) - I love vehicles, especially 4x4s, and though I adore my 2000 Tacoma, it has its faults: poor gas economy for its size, seats only 2, and the cargo area is inconvenient and mostly unused (I loved the convenience of my 4-door FJ55, for example). [Plus, now is the best time to sell it, while it still has plenty of equity.]
[I would add that another criteria is that we plan to increase our overlanding this year and for the foreseeable future - plenty more Mexico, northeast Canada, and definitely a trans-Africa . . . and the Taco is nowhere near my own first choice for that.]
So in the spirit of some recent discussions in the Conservation section about environmentally conscious overlanding, I wanted to see if it was possible to find a truck that fit my criteria. [And keeping in mind, because I have committed right now to helping start up a conservation organization and am making about 1/4 my potential income, I cannot afford to finance anything - if I could, I would have been seriously considering supporting the manufacturers who are coming out with 4x4 hybrids and efficient diesels.]
Below is a list of criteria, and my true secret goal revealed. :roost:
ECO-OVERLANDER PROJECT
“Economical & Ecological Overlanding Vehicle”
Primary Goal:
- Replace 2000 4WD Tacoma TRD (V6, Xcab,188K miles, OME, rear-locker, ARE topper, ARB)
- Est. sale price $11,000 [this is the low end figure, I expect a bit more]
Secret Goal:
- Have enough $ left over to buy a 250cc dual-sport moto :luxhello:
Criteria for new vehicle:
- Must be high-fuel-economy (i.e. - over 30 mpg average if possible; I don't consider 20 mpg to be remotely economical under my definition)
- Diesel or able to convert to diesel a major plus
- Seating for four
- Prefer 4WD or AWD; low-range very desirable but necessary? not sure
- Comfortable on highway
- Airbags
- NHTSA rating 4-5 a big plus
Okay, to recap a little more, I started with the reasoning that smaller might be more economical, I looked at things like the Isuzu Vehi-Cross and the Tourag, but was shocked to find out (duh) they are really very heavy and aimed at performance rather than economy. I seriously considered them - SO much fun! - but could not justify cruddy fuel economy. No point in losing the value of my Taco to that.
Then I started looking at cross-overs like RAV4s and CR-Vs, but again - check out the attached PDF chart (I'm a nerd) - they are not that economical. (I include an index factor for economy to compare mileage economy between diesel and gas.)
Chart of comparisons for Eco-Overland "Lites"
(http://www.jandrhanson.com/overland/Eco-Overlander.pdf)
Then I looked at small vehicles that were diesel - the Liberty - or the Suzukis that can be pretty easily converted to VW diesels. Now we see real economy here.
But the Liberty blows my budget, and frankly, I'm not sure I like the styling all that much. Ironically, Jeep is pleased because the Liberty is appealing to women because they say women want a smaller-sized but still-macho looking SUV, and my reaction is that it's too "cute" and I prefer a Land Cruiser overall . . . maybe it's because I just spent a few weeks driving Jonathan's gorgeous FJ40 nearly every day, and really, really enjoyed it . . . especially the expedition feel, and yes, the coolness and attention I got (I loved all the thumbs-ups and the 'dude' signs I got!).
The Zukes are very neat - tons and tons of cool accessories, with little ARBs (dare I say 'darling?') and racks and lockers, too. But safety and noise on the highway are a huge minus - they're pretty tinny. The Vitaras are better . . . but priced a little high for doing the swap to diesel, which would cost about $4K to do it right. Also, VW diesels have pretty low HP and torque (except the TDI, which are much harder to swap).
In our search and discussion thread, someone did find a Sidekick with a swap already nearly done, for $8500. Not bad . . . but by that time I had already begun to sway back toward a Toyota. In the end, turns out, I'm a Toyota Girl at heart.
So what I found out in my research is that the more modern these "small SUVs" have gotten, the heavier, the more powerful, and the more gas-guzzling they have gotten (though more safe). They're not economical at all.
Additionally, I used a really cool web tool at the EPA website to compare real ecological traits. www.fueleconomy.gov (http://www.fueleconomy.gov)
What really started to clear my dazed mind and make my mission a little easier was to compare both fuel economy with carbon emissions and particulates emissions.
Since I want to be as ecological as possible, I learned that of course hybrids are tops for low emissions and carbon, but was surprised to learn that a newer Corolla and a 2wd truck or RAV4 aren't that far off from each other, but a Volvo XC pollutes way more than an H2! (How many Volvo drivers have green-slogan bumper stickers and give Hummer drivers dirty looks, hmm?)
And all THAT research lead me back to looking at alternative fuels, if I want to drive an economical and ecological overlander. I of course looked at LPG/CNG conversions, because of the economical price, but they are still burning dinosaurs and releasing as much carbon as a gas car. Hybrids are great . . . but I can't afford a new Highlander Hybrid, alas.
So THAT lead me back to . . . diesel! Biodiesel really has huge potential to be a clean-burning, renewable resource that can, if managed well, help improve the economies of developing nations.
Furthermore, my nearest city (Tucson) has a burgeoning bio-diesel community, including a large-scale project to collect restaurant waste oil and turn it into high-quality biodiesel for sale locally through retailers. Now you can't get more ecological than that. So that sold me on diesel engines.
veldtschoen and asking me, "Why on earth did you do that to me?"]
And now you are wondering: why not shut up and present the winner? Pleeaasse?
Okay. Drumroll, please.
And
the
winner
is
http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/fj60_RH_0407.jpg
1984 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ60
to be fitted with a low-mileage 1HZ Toyota diesel with 5-speed manual transmission
-Arizona vehicle
-185,000 miles
-Desert Tan
-Engine and manual transmission still in good shape (though needs seals, radiator fix, etc) and the transmission will be used in Jonathan's 1973 FJ40
-1HZ will get approx 30 mpg highway and run bio-diesel
-Already has Old Man Emu suspension
- Has a huge long-range 40 gallon fuel tank
- Needs air conditioning compressor and service
-Negotiating for a parts vehicle to come with it (a 1989 FJ62 with a salt-water-ruined engine and frame) - it has a SafariGard front bumper and lights that will swap onto the 60 right away
- Interior in okay shape, will need new carpet, seat covers, and door panels to be really cherry, but very serviceable now; will need a new center console (the lockable Tuffy is what I want, for my 2M radio)
- Needs new right front fender (bondo job from hell) - but can get that off the 62
Price
- $2,500 for the vehicle(s)
- $8,000 estimated for engine/trans and labor (Jonathan, me, and nephew Jake, a master mechanic and Toyota genius - Tacominator.com)
It meets all my criteria except air bags.
It will be economical in that it will get very good mileage, and I can carry more than 1 passenger.
It will be ecological in that it is a "recycled" vehicle, will burn biodiesel (I plan to try to buy local and/or US sourced-crop-biodiesel) and thus burn cleaner on renewable fuel source.
But what really, really sold me was driving this one. It is so comfortable on rough (really rough) roads - the OME suspension is sublime - and it has that indescribable Land Cruiser capability that telepaths through the steering wheel: "I can take you anywhere you want to go . . . let's leave tomorrow . . . "
Timeline: will be selling the Tacoma in the next few months while also looking for the right engine, then we'll have the cash to finish it up right and hopefully, end up with enough for a Yamaha XT225 or a Kawasaki Super Sherpa . . . stay tuned!
I found this image from 1988, overlanding in Baja with my FJ55 and our first 2 sea kayaks - I was 24 years old! So you can see Land Cruisers really are my first love (after all, that's what Jonathan was driving when I met him . . . ]
http://www.jandrhanson.com/rh/RH-FJ55.jpg