Disco I: 5-Speed Diesel Conversion

[Scott Brady]

As I grow restless with my truck being "finished" and the Trooper holding the record of the longest I have ever owned a vehicle (5 years) and the Jeep going to ebay/autotrader in a few weeks I would like to spend some time reviewing options for a solid replacement, but with good mileage.

It is not because $3.00 a gallon has any real impact on my budget (we drive very few miles per year in our DD, living in a small town), but because I am very interested in the efforts required and results of converting a nice SUV (for storage volume, transporting people and safety) to a fuel efficient solution.

I know there are other vehicles as options, like the 60 TLC, but the LR seems to be the perfect solution for my needs. Compact dimensions, great utility and excellent trail performance with minimal mods. I am also a hopeless Camel Trophy geek, so...

This will be a place holder for some research and feasibility. I know that several companies are bringing in the TDI and I have some good contacts in France too.

My opinion is that I can buy a new car for $40,000 (like the GC CRD) or build my own, with all of the best components for trail and reliability and still get mid to high 20's on MPG.

When in France, I drove a 2-door Discovery I with the little diesel and I loved that truck. We consistently got 28-29 mpg on the roads.

Base vehicle:

1997 Land Rover Discovery with 5-Speed and Cloth interior. Goal would be to find a reasonable mileage vehicle with really straight body and clean interior. Something from CA, AZ, NM would be ideal.

Considering swapping the doors out to manual locks and windows

Rebuild the axles with ARB/Maxi-Drive, new T-case and updated 5-speed

I am not sure on the project timing, as it might even wait until after South America, but I thought it would be a fun exercise regardless.

A little inspiration: :drool:

http://www.thegreenoval.com/chinese/sale/mpi/mpi01.jpg

[The BN Guy]

This may be kind of a rookie question but can you get the diesel powered rigs here in the states? I'd even settle for an older one if need be.

[stevenmd]

Scott - there is a guy in Reno who brings in TDi's and so forth. They even do the work of installing it if you don't want to do that yourself. If you want it, I'll look for his number.
Also, check out lrx.com ~ there is a gal named Linda who was selling a 1996 DI with manual tranny. I don't know if it is still for sale. She is in Los Gatos.

[nvprospector]

As for the t-case there is no need to replace that. The LT230 is a strong, gear driven t-case with a long history of reliability. For a pre DII t-case all you need to do is update the rear output seal to stop the chronic leaks they seem to have. If you are looking for lower low range, contact Bill over at Great Basin Rovers in Utah, he has a killer low range kit that I have in my rover. The only t-case low range that I have seen beat it was the Atlas t-case. Also Bill makes drive shafts that I just love and has a kit to get rid of the stupid Rotoflex. http://www.greatbasinrovers.com/

The DI axels are strong, full float systems made from 3/16 steel at the carrier flange. I used the electric locker system from KAM Differentials and love them. They have been in my DII going on 5 years now and would never think about the ARB system. JM2C http://www.kamdiffs.com/difflock_pricing.htm

To make the underside bullet proof look to http://www.rovertym.com for all these needs. Again, some of the best products I have ever used and when you talk to them they will help.

If you are not getting one that has a TDI, I would highly recommend a 300TDI. It is the most robust diesel out there IMHO. You can do a lot the TD5; even smoke your tires with the right computer. But that is the key word on why not to get the TD5, COMPUTER. The TD5, which is easier to get but the 300tdi does not use a computer. Don’t even look at the 2.5L or 200tdi conversation as so many in the states do. I was very disappointed with the performance of a 2.5L that was put in my friends rig. It does not have the upper end to sling a 6000 pound monster around in traffic, and does have problems off road when you have the t-case and diff's locked. That is why I opted to spend the extra $$$$ to get the 300tdi from England. There is a guy on ebay, have to find he site again, that I got my engine from and it only cost $4,000 with shipping. Just got it in this morning and it looks pretty :drool: . But most people pay well over $6,000 go get a 300tdi into the country.

Good luck

[pwc]

The 2.8L International may be an option but the 300TDI will be cheaper. It's being replaced by a 3.0 CRD I think.

As for transfer case, I've got a 1.4:1 for sale. :) But I guess that is going in the opposite direction from +MPG. Some people claim you need the 1.4:1 if you're going too heavy but I'm putting the 1.2:1 with a ZF and 2.8L, so in a few weeks I can tell you how that goes.

[The Swiss]

Don’t even look at the 2.5L or 200tdi conversation as so many in the states do. I was very disappointed with the performance of a 2.5L that was put in my friends rig. [/SIZE][/FONT]

Good luckWell, the 2.5L TD for sure is not a powerhouse, but in the LandRover 90 I had in Switzerland, it wasn't a dog either. Bigger problem was the engine design, that it basically was the naturally aspirated engine with a Garett turbo bolted on. Most turbos leaked oil into the air filter; so did mine. On the positive side,it was the last fully mechanical diesel Land Rover made, with mechanical everything including the fuel pump.

200Tdi or 300Tdi? Both have advantages; the 200 Tdi was more economical and more reliable, the 300 Tdi a little bit stronger and more refined.

[thallca]

I to am looking into the idea of converting my 1989 Range Rover's to diesel. While researching the idea I came across this long thread on the D-90 fourm about replacing their 3.9's with the 2.8L powerstokes. There is a lot of information from several Defender owners who did the conversion. You can find it here
http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4200&page=1&pp=15

[stevenmd]

I to am looking into the idea of converting my 1989 Range Rover's to diesel. While researching the idea I came across this long thread on the D-90 fourm about replacing their 3.9's with the 2.8L powerstokes. There is a lot of information from several Defender owners who did the conversion. You can find it here
http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4200&page=1&pp=15
Nice find dude. Did you go to RR this past weekend? If you are interested, the NCLR is doing a week long Oregon run the end of June.

[thallca]

Nice find dude. Did you go to RR this past weekend? If you are interested, the NCLR is doing a week long Oregon run the end of June.

No, I haven't been able to do much in the way of off-roading lately. Too, much work and not enough time off...

[pwc]

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/car/315981940.html
There's your Discovery with a R380 and transfer case. Just need an engine. It's a 1996 not 1997

[NeilWilson]

http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Discotech.html is IMHO a nice conversion project.

Neil

[Jonathan Hanson]

Scott, our research into this possibility indicated that the R380 five-speed in back of the petrol V8 is different from the one behind the diesel (ECR's site), apparently in more than just the bellhousing. If so, the only advantage you'd gain by finding a five-speed Disco donor is that the pedals and master cylinder would already be there. You might have an easier time finding a much-more-common automatic in the condition and color you (or Stephanie?) want, and installing your own pedals. Not sure what's involved in that.

I see a comparison test in our future: Disco turbodiesel versus FJ60 1HZ diesel!

[Scott Brady]

Niel,

Great link, thank you.

The more I research this project, the more feasible it becomes in my mind and the simplicity gained is impressive. The challenge would be the tire required, as I would want to do the conversion myself to be able to service the vehicle.

I am also looking into importation possibilities :)

[JohnC]

Here's what I had planned on doing:

Trade my 4.6 for a 300TDi in Argentina while I'm down there. Most of the guys down there would die to have the V8...

[Flounder]

Scott, Let me know what you dig up with regards to importing. I assume you're thinking France? I lived in France for 4 years (not too far from your Outback Import friends south of Avignon) and when I returned home I imported my Ducati 916. Seemed easy enough at the time but this was 10 years ago. We go to France every year and I always see vehicles I'd like to bring home. Keep us posted on what you find out.

[JohnC]

I had looked into importing the 2.8 TGV from Brasil, at the time the cost was around U$S2,500 but I had to buy 10 engines.... decided not to import them since Stephen Cahill was importing into Canada already.

[Scott Brady]

This would be a complete truck from France for "testing"

[Sleeping Dog]

Scott, there is a company in Canada who makes a conversion kit including the engine, the Powerstroke 2.8 for around $9K. I have the link somewhere and when I find it I'll post it.

Finding it wasn't hard:
http://www.disco-tech.ca/engines/

[pwc]

Good luck with disco-tech. they never respond and might be vaporware.

[Monkeyboy]

If you want to hear the "voice of experience" call Pendy ... 316-210-9514.

[Dmarchand]

Scott, there is a company in Canada who makes a conversion kit including the engine, the Powerstroke 2.8 for around $9K. I have the link somewhere and when I find it I'll post it.

Finding it wasn't hard:
http://www.disco-tech.ca/engines/


That company just sources their stuff from M&D Engineering in the UK. Go to the source (M&D).

[pwc]

Dave, or are you thinking of britrest? I know he did but he's on the other coast and he was doing the conversion and I think still is. He doesn't list the 2.8L but he has a container coming in with a 300TDI in it. http://britrest.com/index_a.htm


BTW, the discotech site has said this "$7,500 US as above w/fitting kit (available soon)" for the last two years.

[Dmarchand]

My understanding is they both source the kits from M&D.

A friend did not have good dealings with Britrest on some other engine stuff so I avoid them. I'm not even sure if they are still in business after one of their guys passed away in the shop.

You can get 300's from other places that don't advertise. It seems pretty easy now to get your hands on a 300 complete drivetrain. Still not cheap!

Glad to hear your project is back on track. I'm sure you are excited to see it completed.

[Icewalker]

Wonder i if it would be cheaper/easier to get a complete 300TDi disco from the UK to bring over as a parts truck (non-registered)? That way you have all the ancilliaries rather than having to root around and source everything from 101 different places?

Just a thought

[pwc]

Yes, it's cheaper to get a used 300TDI from the UK, sometimes complete with all you need, than to get a 2.8L, that's for sure. It depends on what you want and how insane you are. Take that whichever way you wish. :)

[SuperSoniC_110]

300tdi's are the best ever engines putted in the Disco's/Defender.
They will last for 500k kilometres if maintained well end they are great offroaders.
impressive engine breaking down steep slopes and definately powerfull enough when in low gear.

highway speeds can be beefed up by bigger intercoolers and tweaking the dieselpump by a few degrees or rebuild it with a sharper cam inside.

I owned D1 300Tdi's and D90 300Tdi and over here there are tons of them.

The 2.8tgv is even more impressive especially the torque.
One of my mates has a 110camper(3.2ton rig with all the cupboards and campingstuff loaded) with the 2.8Tgv on a R380 gearbox.he even fitted an overdrive to cruise highway at lower RPM's.It's amazing how he just goes up the big dunes in the sahara with his loaded truck(leaves all the 4.2turbodiesel toyota's behind).We tried the top speed the other day and we stopped pushing the throttle at 165km/h because we almost crapped our pants :roost:

[pwc]

Scott, get a hold of Scott at Old Town Garage (oldtowngarage@gmail.com) . He's up here in Washington but is looking at cheaper alternatives to put a diesel in Rovers. He's the guy finishing off the install of my 2.8TGV in a 110 and has been great with communication/updates as well as being extremely flexible when I dropped it off (9pm on a week night and stayed around until 10:30 after tweaking my Suburban to make sure I'd make it the 175 miles home). He has a genuine interest in diesels, is a certified Land Rover Mechanic and has a guy in his shop who used to work extensivley on ZF transmissions.
EDIT:=======
Ignore the ZF comment since you want a 5 speed. :)

[Scott Brady]

Scott, get a hold of Scott at Old Town Garage (oldtowngarage@gmail.com) .

Thank you Sir. I am going to start my investigation and search in earnest this July.

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

It's July...Hows the search going?

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

I forgot to add this to my post...

First let me say it was great to meet you at Pyramid lake, sorry I missed you on saturday with the diesel HJ45. I know your looking for a 97, but here's a 96 and the guy is asking 6500.00 (I think).

Jereme

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/ruffian05/disco.jpg

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

We want to know???

[Scott Brady]

Hey Jereme! Thanks so much for posting that option. We are working on finishing up the summer issue of Overland Journal, which has my full attention.

BUT, I am still very interested in making this project happen.

There is one snag... After Stephanie checked out pictures of Andrews D90, she is pushing pretty hard for one of those (not that I am pushing back at all).

So I might starting looking for a rough around the edges 90 (or one with a blown motor) later this year, delayed because of needing to save the extra $$$ the 90 will cost.

Still would like to have a Camel Trophy spec'ed DI (except white of course).:)

[pwc]

diesel Defenders are dead sexy. Why do you think the women flock to me now...:steak:

[stevenmd]

Hey Jereme! Thanks so much for posting that option. We are working on finishing up the summer issue of Overland Journal, which has my full attention.

BUT, I am still very interested in making this project happen.

There is one snag... After Stephanie checked out pictures of Andrews D90, she is pushing pretty hard for one of those (not that I am pushing back at all).

So I might starting looking for a rough around the edges 90 (or one with a blown motor) later this year, delayed because of needing to save the extra $$$ the 90 will cost.

Still would like to have a Camel Trophy spec'ed DI (except white of course).:)
There seem to be a ton of D90's on lrx.com for cheap right now.

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

Hey Jereme! Thanks so much for posting that option. We are working on finishing up the summer issue of Overland Journal, which has my full attention.

BUT, I am still very interested in making this project happen.

There is one snag... After Stephanie checked out pictures of Andrews D90, she is pushing pretty hard for one of those (not that I am pushing back at all).

So I might starting looking for a rough around the edges 90 (or one with a blown motor) later this year, delayed because of needing to save the extra $$$ the 90 will cost.

Still would like to have a Camel Trophy spec'ed DI (except white of course).:)

She's a good woman. I love the D90...I think everybody loves the D90. Andrews is perfect IMO. I called Pendy about a diesel conversion and he says he has a super clean TDI300 drivetrain for sale that would make a nice low mileage swap for somebody.

[Andrew Walcker]

diesel Defenders are dead sexy. Why do you think the women flock to me now...:steak:

LMAO!!! Make sure and upgrade the windshield wipers to handle all those panties that are being thrown in your direction! :jump:

[Andrew Walcker]

There is one snag... After Stephanie checked out pictures of Andrews D90, she is pushing pretty hard for one of those (not that I am pushing back at all).

So I might starting looking for a rough around the edges 90 (or one with a blown motor) later this year, delayed because of needing to save the extra $$$ the 90 will cost.

Yes, keep heading towards the dark side!!!

[sinuhexavier]

There is one snag... After Stephanie checked out pictures of Andrews D90, she is pushing pretty hard for one of those (not that I am pushing back at all).



Take a drive over 100 miles on pavement in one straight shot and your thoughts on a Defender will change...

[CornDog]

Well, it's a bit longer than a 90, but looking at what it's equiped with...!

http://www.agustinspurlock.com/

:drool: :drool: :drool:

Then I saw the price tag...
http://www.landroverexchange.com/listings/

"130 HCPU 300 Tdi" about half way down...

$85,000

:Wow1: :Wow1: :Wow1: :Wow1: :Wow1: :Wow1:

[Scott Brady]

Well, it's a bit longer than a 90, but looking at what it's equiped with...!


I know and lust after that truck...

[overlander]

Take a drive over 100 miles on pavement in one straight shot and your thoughts on a Defender will change...

I recently did my first family vacation in the 110 (3 hours each way), and just got back from a 4 hour round trip weekend. conclusion, I love my Defender even more! Something about it just makes driving an adventure! :26_13_1:

Now I just need some time to finish my soundproofing, and I'll be golden!

Oh yes, and I was passing cars all day long with my 2.8 in the 110.

oh, and BTW, I did it on biodiesel!