Cell Phone Signal Boosters

[Erick Lihme]

I've been read entire threads trying to get up to speed. Has anyone explored Cellphone signal boosters? The now common cellphone only puts out a 1/4 watt. My guess is that they must desperately need to conserve battery power in our tiny hand phones relying on many repeater towers to make connections. Intermittant RX/TX in the middle of nowhere is usual, but with 3 watts, at least transmission could be improved. Reading posts from several very knowlegeable guys, could something like this improve communications? Boosting power out is helpful, particularly in an emergency, but what about reception? Could it be practical on the trail?

They have anntena's up to 40". The potential seems obvious.

Erick

Here's the link:
http://cellantenna.com/Boosters/cellphone_signal_boosters.htm

Cell Phone Signal Boosters

* Reduce Dropped Calls
* Extend your Cell phone Range
* Improve your signal strength by over 500%

The Cell Phone Signal Boosters connect between your cell phone or car kit and the external antenna. They boost the signal level and power output of your cell phone to the maximum FCC approved limits. Currently most cell phones are only 250 milliwatt of power ( 1/4 watt). In the old days ( a few years ago) the Bag Phone was king and they used to put out 3000 milliwatts or 3 watts of power. The Cell Phone Boosters that we sell boosts your cell phone to the levels of the bag phones so that long distance and more reliable communications can be achieved. Used with out Magnetic mount and Glass mount antennas, they are great for the Car, Boat, RV, or Truck. Combined with our Yagi and Panel Antennas, these boosters provide reliable communication in doors to cell phones connected directly to them.

[mountainpete]

Hi Erick,

There was a lengthy discussion about it a while back here: http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2116&highlight=booster

I am in the wireless industry and I use one personally. The Wilson boosters work extremely well on 800 mhz CDMA and AMPS. Combined with a good antenna you will significantly increase you coverage area. Others on the forum have personally used them have also seen coverage improvements.

You are right... In actual use, a handheld cellphone is often running at much less than even a 1/4 watt. Power output is network controled to be a little as possible to preserve battery life.

Pete

[Erick Lihme]

Hi Pete,

I'll go through that thread.

It looks like you are just north of here. Canadians are roughly 50% of the real estate buyers around here. It's that Canadian oil you know...

TX,
EL

[mountainpete]

Feel free to ask any additional questions that pop up. Lots of experienced people on the board.

As far as the Canadian oil - well my thoughts on the subject are mixed right now. Seems like we're selling oil just to buy gas for our cars! It's $1.035 a litre at the pumps today! :Wow1:

[Erick Lihme]

Pete,

Those are Excellent posts on cellphone boosters. I think I'll go analoge. The pop up tent looks adequate. At a price of only $3000, the value of the trailer, stripped of the tent, is more than 50% of the entire rig. The risk/reward of this investment is favorable. The tent could also be converted to work on top of a standard pickup bed. During the cold cloudy months it could be useful, allowing us to snowbird it for acouple of months. Health and sanity is everything!

Yes, those taxes on the gas are killer. I spoke with an oil company consultant in a local cafe. At least the ecomony in Alberta is benefiting. I've considered seeking one of those lucrutive jobs offered even to entry level postions should retirement become too boring.

[mountainpete]

Erick,

Don't go just analog - carriers are looking to turn down the service over the next few years and move people to digital. Lots of companies are quietly turning down analog in metro centres because they are simply getting so little use. In reality, CDMA 800 actually performs better then Analog from a coverage standpoint anyways.

The ideal setup is a tri-mode phone (800 analog/amps 800 digital 1.9 digital) but they are actually getting harder and harder to purchase. The vast majority of new hardware is digital only. At this point, I rarely carry analog equipment anymore and then only as a backup because I have access to it.

I'm very partial to CDMA (that would be your Verizon or Sprint PCS networks) because I know it the best. But pick a service that works the best where you are and then an appropriate matched booster. If you go just analog your investment might be too short term.

Pete

[crawler#976]

I've found that just having a Wilson external antenna can make a large difference in range/reception. You might start with that and see how it goes.

[teotwaki]

Official FCC sunset for analog and older services (TDMA digital) is February 2008

[Erick Lihme]

Okay, Verizon it is. The neighbor tells me that analoge is spotty out even in town. Gonna go with the whole works, two antennas, one for mountain and one for flat land as well as a booster. I have health issues which could require emergency medical.

TX
E

The ideal setup is a tri-mode phone (800 analog/amps 800 digital 1.9 digital)


Erick,

Don't go just analog - carriers are looking to turn down the service over the next few years and move people to digital. Lots of companies are quietly turning down analog in metro centres because they are simply getting so little use. In reality, CDMA 800 actually performs better then Analog from a coverage standpoint anyways.

The ideal setup is a tri-mode phone (800 analog/amps 800 digital 1.9 digital) but they are actually getting harder and harder to purchase. The vast majority of new hardware is digital only. At this point, I rarely carry analog equipment anymore and then only as a backup because I have access to it.

I'm very partial to CDMA (that would be your Verizon or Sprint PCS networks) because I know it the best. But pick a service that works the best where you are and then an appropriate matched booster. If you go just analog your investment might be too short term.

Pete

[mountainpete]

Regarding the antenna - unless you have the extra cash, don't bother with a second antenna beyond this one: http://www.wilsoncellular.com/ViewProductB.php?ID=5 I have used dozens over the years and that antenna is the best - especially in the terrain you are in.

If you do go with another antenna, go with this: http://www.wilsoncellular.com/ViewProductB.php?ID=6 Our optimization techs are using that antenna exclusively now.

This antenna: http://www.wilsoncellular.com/ViewProductB.php?ID=1 what I call the "big ugly run'em off the road trucker" is probably the best antenna on the market - but not very suitable for off-road use.

Pete

[Erick Lihme]

Pete,

Will go with your number 1 choice as one spends 99% of their time in their natural habitat.

TX
E



Regarding the antenna - unless you have the extra cash, don't bother with a second antenna beyond this one: http://www.wilsoncellular.com/ViewProductB.php?ID=5 I have used dozens over the years and that antenna is the best - especially in the terrain you are in.

If you do go with another antenna, go with this: http://www.wilsoncellular.com/ViewProductB.php?ID=6 Our optimization techs are using that antenna exclusively now.

This antenna: http://www.wilsoncellular.com/ViewProductB.php?ID=1 what I call the "big ugly run'em off the road trucker" is probably the best antenna on the market - but not very suitable for off-road use.

Pete

[Erick Lihme]

Pete,
Please correct me if anything here does not apply.

Below is an outstanding post. To save others time I'll offer my interpretation of a rather lengthy and somewhat technical post. Using a booster inappropriately may cause the user more dropped calls leading the user to believe that the booster is not effective. It might be a worth while read to understand the why Pete does not use the booster but only when necessary Boosters are best used only when the connection is weak, otherwise the system may drop your call attempt as it detects that your signal strength is excessive and may cause interference with other standard (low power) signals.

When I get the new toys, I'll use the external antenna first in both rural and urban environments, then the booster only when the attempts fail or the connection is marginal.

Here's the whole enchilada and link to the thread: http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2116&highlight=booster

Grim Reaper Grim Reaper is offline
Expedition Portal Team

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 575
Default
I'm SHocked. I have been in the phone Business for 18 years and this is one of the very few discussions I have ever seen that actually had any merit on a forum that wasn't related to directly to phones.

I carry a FCC GROL and I am a level 2 or level 3 certified bench tech for consumer product for Analog, TDMA and GSM for Nokia, Motorola and Ericsson.

Analog ran on 3watts because it was a new system with minimal towers. As more towers were built the output power needed to handle the call decreased.

Hand helds were regulated down to .6 watts because of concerns of excessive radiation. It also is a much more practical output with regards to size of the product and the battery capacity needed to power it. Fact of the matter is most phones don't exceed .4 watts max output to keep battery size down. They don't need to produce more in most urban areas anymore. Most phones are running at.2 watts or less (the system steps them down) including traditional 3watt analog.

Most of this discussion has been about CDMA (Verizon) and Analog. Let me point out that Analog is very close to being shut down and TDMA is not far behind. Analog products have not been available from the carriers in several years nor has TDMA. Don't waste money on a product designed for these technologies. They will be gone in a little over a year.

By far your biggest gain is an external antenna with a ground plane. The car is interference. Tinted windows are interference. If the tint blocks UV it blocks signal. The difference between visible light and radio signal is the broadcast frequency. Thats it. The hand held phone has such a small antenna that it is near impossible to make it efficient. Most phones are directional on the antenna as well. The flip blocks the antenna o if the antenna is built int the housing the circuit card blocks half the area it can transmit. All these conditions need to be taken into consideration. A external antenna helps tremendously for all of these reasons.

The boosters on CDMA, TDMA and GSM I really can't endorse.

These technologies were designed for minimal transmit power to increase channel reuse to increase capacity. The system depends on minimal transmit distances in population areas. There is only so many available channels in the spectrum width. Tower spacing has more to do with system call capacity and physical line of sight impediments then anything else.

A 200 ft tower on level ground can easily handle calls 50 miles out if the antenna is good on both ends. A tower on level ground in a hard woood forest in winter has less range as the trees become interference. Its even worse when the trees have leaves.

Its ground clutter and population density that dictate where the coverage area will be for a tower. In a dense population area a tower will be adjusted by power output and antenna angle to have a lower physical service area to all for more towers to be installed. There area also other issues including geographic coverage licenses. A carrier will down tilt the antennas to stay within that licensed area and that is forced by the FCC. So if you are on the edge of your carriers coverage area and a different carrier licensed on a different technology or there is no roaming agreement in place the system will drop you when you are beyond its licensed coverage area.

The phones have output power settings as well that the system will kick the phone to the minimum power it can still receive a good signal at the tower. While it would help to have a booster on the fringe of the system you may get into an issue where the tower would see you overdriving and tell the phone to lower out put. If it cant lower that output to the expected range for the level it may dump the call to prevent co channel interference. So these sort of liner boosters may actually increase dropped calls in urban areas.

Towers are programed to know what to expect the phone within its service area to be powered at when they hand off. This aids in tower hand-offs so that the system can make space for the next call once it hits a signal level that the system will feel it at the end of where it can provide a clear signal. Again the boosted output would throw a monkey wrench into the programmed parameters.

[mountainpete]

Pete,
Please correct me if anything here does not apply.

Below is an outstanding post. To save others time I'll offer my interpretation of a rather lengthy and somewhat technical post. Using a booster inappropriately may cause the user more dropped calls leading the user to believe that the booster is not effective. It might be a worth while read to understand the why Pete does not use the booster but only when necessary Boosters are best used only when the connection is weak, otherwise the system may drop your call attempt as it detects that your signal strength is excessive and may cause interference with other standard (low power) signals.

When I get the new toys, I'll use the external antenna first in both rural and urban environments, then the booster only when the attempts fail or the connection is marginal.

Erick,

I'll speak for specifically with CDMA here... a booster will not directly cause more dropped calls. Unlike on analog, the power of the booster is not a constant 3 watts - rather it is moduled at up to 3 watts. The cell site controls the output strength just like it does any phone. Logical thought: If boosters cause issues like this, would carriers certify and sell the product themselves?

Personally, I only turn on my booster when I need it because of the physical connection that needs to be made to the phone. It's more of a convienience thing rather then a dropped call item.

Bottom line is CDMA boosters work. I've personally experienced it. Plus thousands of oil workers in Northern Alberta can't all be wrong...

Pete

[Erick Lihme]

Pete,
It's good to get that clarification. What booster do you use?

Erick

[mountainpete]

I use this one: http://www.wilsoncellular.com/ViewProduct.php?ID=2

I choose that one for my personal use because the majority of rural sites are 800 MHZ and I would never have the need to boost 1.9 GHZ. If I had a need to replace it, I would probably get the dual band version just because it's nice to have.

Chirs (BajaTaco) has it right now down in AZ.

Pete

[Erick Lihme]

Pete,

Thanks again. I'll use Wat you use. Time tested, trail hardened is alway the most sensible IMHO.

:26_7_2: :26_7_2: :26_7_2: :26_7_2:

EL

[Grim Reaper]

As Pete indicated Boosters CAN help on the fringe but should be off when in good coverage areas.

I work for a TDMA carrier so I am speaking for that technology. TDMA Digital was built on the premise that the units within the system would be under 1 watt. Other then the first year there were NO 3 Watt "DIGITAL" products out. The booster car kits only boosted when in Analog where the system was designed to a 3 Watt standard. The TDMA booster kits did not boost TDMA (or GSM).

As for the comment I made of causing more drops:

The first big problem is you are boosting one way. While you are increasing your output wattage allowing the system to see you better but has the reverse effect that they system now thinks you are closer then you really are so it turns down its output power going TO YOU and the system then tells your phone to turn down the power on your end.

See the vicious circle of operating outside what the system was designed for?

The best bang for the Buck is a good outside antenna above the roof line or better yet dead center to the highest and largest flat horizontal piece of grounded metal on the truck. Preferably a direct connection to the phone if the phone has a RF jack. Many products will have a antenna coupler of some type.

Tomorrow I send a 53ft trailer FULL of TDMA digital gear to scrap. Millions of dollars at its original purchase price. #1 copper is binging $2.70lb And not even sure what all the aluminum sheet in the cabinets is bringing these days....That's what it will be sold off for. :yikes:

[lowenbrau]

I'm very partial to CDMA (that would be your Verizon or Sprint PCS networks) because I know it the best.

Pete
You must be ex Clearnet?

[Erick Lihme]

It's good to have basic understanding of any system being used so that one can adapt as necessary.

It appears that here in the woods (literally) there are way too many dead spots in areas one would not expect which the telecom folks have yet to overcome. I have some experience operating radio, and data transmission via trunked 800mhz systems for Mobile Data Terminals, not on the tech side, on the field side. A system is set up in a new area with the best intentions of providing full coverage. The guys in the field find out wat works, and wat does not as radio waves are do unpredictable things and rules of thumb do not always apply. The techs try hard to solve the problem with limited resources. Where theory and application meet is in the field.

I'll generally go with wat works in practice fully aware of wat in theory should not. What will be passable or work in one area shouldn't necessarily be applied in another, yet all the while keeping in mind the principles upon which a system operates. There are so many variables, hills, tree leaves, temps etc, variables which have more impact on a low output system, and specific frequency range. If it did not Verizon would not such unreliable coverage!. Somebody budgeted for Wat worked in another area!.

Using a Booster in the NW, such as MT and Canada might be appropriate. Using a booster in other terrain or areas may not. It advisable to be aware of a booster's limitations, pros/cons, and strengths, the knowledge which comes in part from experience.

For me, making an emergency call with a booster available, is good insurance :lurk: .

BTW, I'm so please to have been invited to such a fine group.

[mountainpete]

You must be ex Clearnet?

Hmmm... why do you ask? :sombrero:

[lowenbrau]

Hmmm... why do you ask? :sombrero:
I suspect we have a lot in common but I'm an implementation type.

[paulj]

Wilson offers two antennas with a magnetic base, one about 4" tall, the other 12" and $10 more. I assume the taller one is more effective, but I'm not sure it is worth the extra money and size.

I would be using it on an Element with some roof rack gear - small box and low platform. Still there is a good couple of feet of free sheet metal in front of the rack. The near term temporary use would be in eastern Oregon where coverage is sparse away from the I84 corridor. I have an analog capable Verizon phone.

Also, is an antenna like this usable away from the car? In most backcountry uses, especially emergency ones, I could stop and get out of the car, and even clamber up some nearby ridge, or in the worse case, hike some distance till I got reception.

paulj

[Big_Geek]

I've had both of the mag mount Wilson Electronics antennas and the 4" isn't even worth bothering with. I now own the taller antenna and am very impressed with it. I have been able to get fairly consistent signal in the national forest here in Arkansas, sometimes even in the valleys.

On another point, the antenna system is where you're going to get the most bang for the buck. Even if you have a booster and don't have a good antenna system, you haven't gained anything.

[gary in ohio]

It should be noted that the Wilson signal booster is NOT 3 watts output. Its 1 watt, Ok actually 1.04 watts, but no where near 3 watts.. Regardless of what the retailers/sellers says. Even the docs are wrong. While Wilson makes serveral models Alll you have to do is check the FCC website with the FCC id number to confirm your model. For example FCC ID# PWO8012SM depending on the frequency range your using goes from .0097 to 1.071 on 1900mhz and .01 to 1.04 on 800mhz. output power is based on power input from the phone. Also many of the wilson docs say that the cell site will control the amplifier power. This is really not true, The site will control the cell phones power level and based on the power level of the phone, the output power will vary. The wilson amp doesnt know there is cell site in the picture, its just amplifies the signal given to it.

[DaveInDenver]

It should be noted that the Wilson signal booster is NOT 3 watts output. Its 1 watt, Ok actually 1.04 watts, but no where near 3 watts.. Regardless of what the retailers/sellers says. Even the docs are wrong. While Wilson makes serveral models Alll you have to do is check the FCC website with the FCC id number to confirm your model. For example FCC ID# PWO8012SM depending on the frequency range your using goes from .0097 to 1.071 on 1900mhz and .01 to 1.04 on 800mhz. output power is based on power input from the phone. Also many of the wilson docs say that the cell site will control the amplifier power. This is really not true, The site will control the cell phones power level and based on the power level of the phone, the output power will vary. The wilson amp doesnt know there is cell site in the picture, its just amplifies the signal given to it.
Interesting, I would have expected them to be rated as a dBm gain, not max radiated power. So a +30dBm amp would in theory be a 1W output with a 1mW input. If the input is higher, so would the output be higher. Most phones are around 250mW, so the phones themselves do about 24dBm and so I would have expected that these Wilson amps would be able to hit much more than 3W (~35dBm) radiated power. My guess was that the amp is designed for a maximum gain and is only controlled down if the tower tells the phone to throttle back. Anyway, good to know that they can't do what they say before anyone spends their money.

FWIW, you find dBm by:

dBm = 10 * LOG (power in mW)