Tell me about Native Watercraft hybrid boats?

[Haggis]

I've started looking for a single seat boat. Something I could throw on the rack easily and go puddle about for an afternoon or go do an overnight trip. Don't need anything fancy, I just want an occasional use boat. We have a couple of great canoes but they're not really one man friendly. I was thinking about a middle of the road kayak but I just stopped by my buddy Ryan's boat shop and he showed me this hybrid boat by Native Watercraft...a new line he's carrying this year.

Ultimate 12 link (http://www.nativewatercraft.com/ult_12_lg.cfm)

It's a 'yak/canoe hybrid with a tunnel hull, removable suspension seat, extruded aluminum accessory rails on top and bottom with adjustable foot rests. While still an open boat the seat is unbelievably comfortably and easy to ingress and egress. And as I'm not getting any younger I appreciate that. This boat has way more storage than a similar sized yak even if that yak has both front and rear bulkheads. There are a ton of accessories available from splash covers to pedal and electric motor drives. Better still it comes in camo so this could be a multi-use paddling/fishing/waterfowl boat for me. Ryan offered to let me try one but as the river is currently iced up I declined.


Anybody have any experience with these boats? How about how well a tunnel hull works both on flat water and river runs?

[cshontz]

That's funny. I'm looking very seriously at the Native Marvel 14.5 Tandem. I don't know anything about Native boats, but it looks like a very comfy float. Subscribing to thread.

[Haggis]

That's funny. I'm looking very seriously at the Native Marvel 14.5 Tandem. I don't know anything about Native boats, but it looks like a very comfy float. Subscribing to thread.

I looked at a Marvel and like the looks of it, but as we already have the canoes for tandem trips I don't really need that model. Though the Marvel can be set up for solo use also. I really like the seats and sitting position on the Native boats, very comfortable with your feet lower than your hips. Plus as the seats can be removed, you don't have to bring a camp chair on an overnight float.

How serious are you Chris? Ryan offered a 10% discount for multiple boat purchases plus 15% of accesories 'til the end of March. Michelle's been eyeballing a Bending Branches paddle for herself so she doesn't have to steal mine. If your willing I could get you a quote and maybe save ourselves a few dollars. Then we could go try 'em out somewheres between here and there. :elkgrin:

[cshontz]

Reasonably serious. I'm 60% serious, and 40% on the fence, I would say. I wouldn't be able to make a full payment until sometime in April, though. I got a quote locally:


The Marvel 14.5 Tandem currently sells for $1399 ($1482.95 w/ tax). We currently do not have any sales scheduled for March or April, but would be willing to extend the Sportsman Show sale for this boat if it's ordered by this coming Saturday (February 26th.) This would put the price at $1259 ($1334.55 with tax). We require a 20% (non-refundable) deposit; balance would be due when the boat arrives. We have an order scheduled to arrive here approximately the end of April.

[Outdoorsben]

I paddled around a 14.5 last year or so. The 14.5 can be made to paddle solo or tandem incase you want to bring someone else. That was a big draw to me. I ended up buying more of a fishing boat and less of a toss on truck and go somewhere boat. It paddled fine, i'm not a huge kayak fan i've also been into and fished from canoe's instead.

[Haggis]

Thanks Ben. :sombrero:

I've been searching out some reviews (http://www.georgiariverfishing.com/GAarticles/Ultimate12/Ultimate12.htm) for the Ultimate 12 model, seems the lake paddlers like 'em as all the reviews I've checked out were overwhelmingly positive. I'm still looking for some input as far as river running.

[cshontz]

Alright, make that 99.5% serious about a new boat, and $.5 percent not sure. Considering I just returned from putting a sizable deposit on this blue thing. Check it out, Mark. It was on a rack right under an Ultimate.

This was at Blue Mountain Outfitters near Harrisburg. They had a very nicely stocked store. I really got to poke and prod a lot of kayaks, and I really like the Natives.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5295/5479699931_6950db861d_z.jpg

[huskyfargo]

I have an Ultimate 12 that I bought 3 years ago, and has only seen the water once, that I'll consider selling if anybody cares to make an offer.
I'll include the paddle, vest, and the Yakima LandSharks.

[Haggis]

Alright, make that 99.5% serious about a new boat, and $.5 percent not sure. Considering I just returned from putting a sizable deposit on this blue thing. Check it out, Mark. It was on a rack right under an Ultimate.

This was at Blue Mountain Outfitters near Harrisburg. They had a very nicely stocked store. I really got to poke and prod a lot of kayaks, and I really like the Natives.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5295/5479699931_6950db861d_z.jpg

That's a nice boat, hope to see it on the Little Juniata come May. I'm 99.5% sure I'll be coming home with the camo 12 next week.

[Haggis]

I have an Ultimate 12 that I bought 3 years ago, and has only seen the water once, that I'll consider selling if anybody cares to make an offer.
I'll include the paddle, vest, and the Yakima LandSharks.

I'd be interested in the boat depending on the color and I don't know about shipping it all to PA. I don't need the accessories. If your interested PM me a price as I don't like to price other folks stuff for them.

[12husky]

I have been looking for a boat myself. I paddled a few trips last summer with my son's 10' sit-in kayak and am thinking of a 12-13' sit-in myself. That Native you are looking at looks versatile and would be nice in the marsh this winter! I am looking forward to checking it out in May.

~Matt

[huskyfargo]

I'd be interested in the boat depending on the color and I don't know about shipping it all to PA. I don't need the accessories. If your interested PM me a price as I don't like to price other folks stuff for them.

Haggis,
I'm not sure how much shipping would be. I'm sure it wouldn't be real cheap though. I would like to get $700 for the boat.

[Squatchout]

My main paddling/fishing partner has 2 native ultimates he's had for several years. Bottom line is he loves them. Especially as a fishing craft. With a little practice you can stand and fly fish from them. That was his major reason for going that way. I've paddled one a few times and it is a nice boat. My bud and I have done a couple of muti day fishing float trips camping on the way and he has never had comfort problems after several back to back 8-9 hour on the water days.

Native has the most comfy seats on the market. Several friends with back probs love them.

They are not white water boats. They will do some mild stuff but better suited to calmer water.

They have plenty of storage for float trips and are pretty dry boats. They are really just a tunnel hull canoe.

If paddling upstream a lot or into heavy wind I'd rather have my solo canoe. More on that in a moment.

The skegs can be a little balky to deploy and retract so you have to keep them lubed up.

They seem to be pretty durable.

They are not particularly fast boats.

Here are a couple of pics of his on the water.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/squatchout/solo%20canoe/P5170018Small.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/squatchout/solo%20canoe/P5170017Small.jpg

I'm past 50 now. I had a small inexpensive sit in kayak for years that I bought for just the purpose you are asking about. It was a Perception Swifty. Nothing special but a cheap does the job boat. It was a blast. However at this age any boat that has me sitting in the floor for a long time can be a problem. Knees and hips are plain worn out and getting out after a few hours sitting can be rough. So I sold the Swifty and bought a solo canoe.

I've been a canoeist most of my life. With the current rage in yaks small canoe's seem to be the forgotten step child. They are still and always will be a very viable alternative. Some things they do much better than a yak. My solo is an Old town Discovery 119. Not a high performance paddling boat but I've been very pleased with it for my uses. It's light enough to carry easily for me and I sit a good bit higher than in any yak. My comfort level has gone way up because of that and for me it is easier to get in and out of. It's not a fast boat but still seems to use less effort going upstream or into the wind then most rec or SOT yaks I have paddled. With a VERY LITTLE customizing it suits my purposes wonderfully. Everything from evening after work fishing for a couple of hours to multi day trips fishing. It carries tons of gear and my big ol' self just fine.
This boat is also sold in a cheaper version @ Dick's Sporting good as the Kanoe. Real good bargain but OT relocated the seat too far back in the boat for good paddling in this version. It's an easy fix.
OT also sells the Pack which is a nice little canoe that is about the same size but a bit lighter in roylex. Same basic purpose and design. There are many other nice small canoes on the market as well.

Here are some pics of my solo canoe.
I padded the cane seat and dropped it about one inch and added a backrest.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/squatchout/solo%20canoe/P5170033Small.jpg

Rod holder mods.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/squatchout/solo%20canoe/P5170032Small.jpg

Web straps with fastex buckles pop riveted under the gunnels fore and aft. Works great for keeping the gear in the boat. especially fully loaded on long trips.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/squatchout/solo%20canoe/Picture046Small.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/squatchout/solo%20canoe/P5170036Small.jpg

These pics are from a float trip and the boat is loaded with 4 days worth of fishing and camping gear.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/squatchout/solo%20canoe/Picture017Small2.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/squatchout/solo%20canoe/P7020001Small.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/squatchout/solo%20canoe/Picture018Small.jpg

Native Ultimate and Disco 119 on the roof rack. The disco has good bit more freeboard than the Ultimate. Same for gear capacity.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/squatchout/PTB%203-16-09%20working/Picture034Small.jpg


Hope this helps a little and good luck with your search.

[Haggis]

Hope this helps a little and good luck with your search.

Thanks Squatch, your post was very well thought out and informative. I'm digging the way you've trick your boat out.

I've been a fan of canoes since I saw my first voyageur canoe come floating into a trappers meet. We have also been fans of Old Town for many years. Our Discovery 169 has been our waterborne mule for the last 20 years. It's cut water from Maine to North Carolina and is still going strong. Our other boat is a Guide 147 and has proven itself to be a great river squirtter and is our goto boat when the water levels begin to drop. But I don't like the way the Guide handles as a solo boat so the search started for a single craft. I looked at a Discovery 119 and a Dirigo 120 but I was really drawn to the Ultimate. I think it will make a great multi-tool boat. Not only pond and lake paddling, fishing, or mild river runs, but as a waterfowl boat. With the open hatches it should be easy to deploy and retrieve decoys and the tunnel hull should provide a stable shooting platform for when the Black Cloud shot is going down range. I also really like the seating and the support it gives plus find the Ultimate very easy to get in and out of. If we had serious runs here I might go for a more dedicated river running boat but that style just isn't necessary for my overall needs.

[Flounder]

Our shop has sold maybe 30-40 Native Ultimate boats. They're nice little boats. If you're not in the need for a high mileage craft, they work great. They're a touch heavy, with 5ish pounds in just the seat alone, but that seat is bar none the most comfy seat to sit in. I'm an avid open ocean sea kayaker, so that seat is far more than I like, but there's no arguing it's super cushy.

Native boats are really ideal for water sportsmen. They make a multitude of add-on accessories from anchor mounts and rod holders, to deck covers and cleaver storage systems. You can stand in them if you have better than average balance which speaks to their stability. They track well enough, maneuver okay, but they're really not that quick or efficient. If I had to paddle more than 3-5 miles, I'd be looking for something else.

[Haggis]

Thanks Flounder. What would you recommend for around the same price point?

[Squatchout]

Haggis, That 169 is an awesome do everything boat. I've spent a lot of time in them. My tandem is a Disco 174 (stretched 169) It's my second one in over 20 years. Only complaint with any Disco is weight. You know what Mid-Atlantic rivers can do to a canoe hull in low water. The Disco's just laugh it off. My bud's Native is none the worse for wear in the same rivers.

If you are new to double blade paddles I'll show one more thing.
http://www.bendingbranches.com/straightcanoe/impression_solo.html

I also sometimes use a single blade but the 119 seems to track much better when paddled with a double as it's not the world straightest tracking boat.

The WW crowd likes short paddles and steep deep strokes. Canoes sit higher and are wider. For efficient DRY cruising in canoes(and ultimates) I prefer a longer paddle and a shallower stroke. For ME in MY boat it's dryer, more efficient, and easier on these old shoulder joints too. I have the 280cm version of the above paddle and just love it. It's been used for a push pole many times and doesn't show it at all. Carbon paddles are lighter but that wooden blade is plenty light compared to aluminum/plastic blades. It feels "oh so good" in the hands especially on cold days. It also has that wonderful furniture aesthetic that only wood has. Plenty strong and tough and the carbon sleeve is machined and not sloppy like an aluminum sleeve often gets.
I had to order mine as most shops don't stock the longer canoe doubles just shorter yak paddles. Most companies don't make a canoe length double they typically stop at 230-240cm longest. Being a sportsman you'll appreciate that the wooden paddle is quiet both in the water and banging the boat.

Here is another pic that shows the paddle. The blades are upside down of course because laying across the gunnels it rolls heavy side down.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/squatchout/solo%20canoe/P5170026Small.jpg

[Haggis]

:sombrero: I've been using kayak paddles for propelling the canoes for years. My wife bought me a Bending Branches paddle a couple of years ago and it is sweet. Back in '09 we did an ExPo float trip down the Rappahannock and everyone else kept wondering why Michelle and I could cruise so fast in our big, old, and fully loaded 169. I let them try out the BB paddle and it was a couple of hours while it made the rounds through the "fleet" before I got it back. It was then they realized I was able to do twice the strokes they were able to while using the traditional paddles.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1195/5103109795_0636e0195e.jpg

All this canoe talk is making me antsy for winter to be over....:drool: Forget the Jeep I want to go paddle.

[Squatchout]

:sombrero:
All this canoe talk is making me antsy for winter to be over....:drool: Forget the Jeep I want to go paddle.

x2
Rappohannoc is a nice river. I bought my 1st 174 at an auction at the Rappahannoc Outdoor Center. Used livery boat.

[Flounder]

Thanks Flounder. What would you recommend for around the same price point?If an Ultimate fits your needs, it will be hard to find another option. Don't get me wrong, those are really cool little boats and perfect for anyone wanting to do some flat water paddling involving some fishing, birding or just doing a little "liquid lawn chair" paddling. It's just not a high mileage boat. For that, I think you'd have to get something longer and sleeker, but that will come at the sacrifice of some of that versatility the Ultimates have.

My other favorite boat in this range is the Old Town Pack. That's a solo canoe, much like that 169. Super light little boat, easy to paddle, much less expensive than the Ultimate, but again, perhaps not a high mile craft.

[Squatchout]

The Pack is just like the Disco 119 solo I have in the pics above except it's roylex instead of crosslink3 poly. Very similar design. I've paddled both. It will be faster than the Utimate but not alot. They are also general purpose boats. It takes a 14 -16' narrow solo for speed.

Haggis, I think you will find these boats move fine. You are in river country and will mostly be going downstream I suspect and modest trips on still water.

Flounder is a Sea Yak guy. He understands the difference. But when you normally paddle an 18-20' needle anything else feels slow. Comparing any sportmans boat to those is like comparing a pick up truck to a Lambo as far as performance is concerned. Same goes for my stubby solo canoe. The performance of the Ultimate is similar to most any plastic rec yak of the same legnth. Most anything that is good for distance /speed paddling will not suit the purposes you are asking of a boat.

There is a reason I have 3 different boats and of course 8 different bikes. Because I like to do different stuff!

[Flounder]

Flounder is a Sea Yak guy. He understands the difference. But when you normally paddle an 18-20' needle anything else feels slow. Comparing any sportmans boat to those is like comparing a pick up truck to a Lambo as far as performance is concerned.Guilty as charged. My last three boats were in the 19' by 21" range and designed for speed and efficiency. So, anytime I get in a recreational boat, I feel like I'm dragging a submerged trash can.

I've put in a few miles in an Ultimate 12 and it was fine, just not the experience I was after. Then again, I don't fish, bird or hunt, so it's not the boat for me. Build quality is very nice and the potential to tweak the boat to your liking is hard to beat.

[Haggis]

snip.. My last three boats were in the 19' by 21" range and designed for speed and efficiency...snip

As most of our creeks are on the smallish side a boat that long would be like driving a Mack truck on a go kart track. :sombrero: If I was a big water paddler a longer boat would be the choice as speed and long distance traversing would be the main requirements. But we don't have any big water other than Lake Erie and it is not that inviting to paddle along...boring. Most of the time I'm poking around beaver dams and mucking about creeks going with the flow. I don't like to paddle upstream and then repeat scenery on the way back out. I'm more worried about draft depth than anything else.

I appreciate all the input though. It's always good to get different view points from folks with diverging needs. Often they bring up something that yer brain didn't even consider. I've got to the end of March for the sales price ($749 out the door) so I think I'll wait a few weeks. That will let the river open up (hopefully, if winter ever gets out of here) and I can give a few boats a test paddle before shelling out the cash.

[12husky]

You really have me itching to get out on the water now!

It was 70 degrees today, but pouring down rain and going below freezing again tonight. The trip in May just isn't going to be soon enough!

[Squatchout]

Yeah buddy, It's been crazy weather here in the Mid Atlantic this week. Warm last weekend, 6"s of snow 1st of the week, some cold, several inches of rain and warm midweek, Cold + high winds that knocked the power out for 1000s Friday and back to warm and thunder storms last night and today, warm and sunny tomorrow. Don't like the weather wait a minute!

I'm chomping at the bit myself. Picking up my kid from college in PA this weekend for spring break. I'll be driving next to the Suski and the beautiful Juniata river for a good bit of the way. I haven't floated it yet and it will be a big distraction for me! Soon very soon!

[12husky]

I'm chomping at the bit myself. Picking up my kid from college in PA this weekend for spring break. I'll be driving next to the Suski and the beautiful Juniata river for a good bit of the way. I haven't floated it yet and it will be a big distraction for me! Soon very soon!

Have you seen this thread: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47193

It should be a great paddle and maybe a chance to try out some new boats. It sounds like there will be a few there!:drool:

[Squatchout]

Just checked it out. I'll keep it in mind and see how the schedule goes when we get a little closer. Thanks for the heads up.

[Haggis]

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/haggis65/100_2524.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/haggis65/100_2522.jpg

[cshontz]

Nice! Congrats, Mark! What's that white stuff? Speaking of that white stuff, you should hop in the boat and have someone push you down the hill. I might pick up our Native yak this weekend, if I can squeeze out the last payment.

[Haggis]

Nice! Congrats, Mark! What's that white stuff? Speaking of that white stuff, you should hop in the boat and have someone push you down the hill. I might pick up our Native yak this weekend, if I can squeeze out the last payment.

White stuff? That's the price we pay for living in the arm pit of Lake Erie. :sombrero:

My boy Cam jumped in the boat after school and was "paddling" it across the ice in the driveway. Man that thing would scoot and we both thought it would make a great toboggan. At least until the snow leaves and the ice gets of the creeks.

[Squatchout]

Congrats, That's a real nice looking craft! Haven't seen one in camo up close. I like it. Can you get spray covers and such that match?

[Haggis]

I likey the camo, appeases my ridgerunner soul. And yep, you can get the spray cover suite in camo, I believe it's in the Advantage Max4 wetlands pattern. It'll match my waterfowl jacket....:elkgrin:. Screw khaki, camo is were it's at.

[Haggis]

Finally! We got some decent weather around here so I could try out the new boat. I had to sneak a paddle in between rainstorms but the sun came out long enough and the temperatures warmed up enough to get it done. I took the Native Ultimate 12 out to a local Game Land's pond to give it a try. I tried to do this a month or so ago but that didn't work out so well....


http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/haggis65/102_3725.jpg

The winds were blowing around 20mph and the surface was a little choppy, but I was determined to get this boat wet. As I eased the boat into the water and jumped on in I found getting into the boat a stable affair.

I adjusted the seat straps and the foot rests and got myself comfy and then dug in with the paddle. The boat paddled easily despite the chop though the fore wanted to turn into the wind with the chop action as I cut across the waves. Turning into the waves the boat cut wake nicely and tracked well. I pushed on across the pond and worked my way into the leeward side of a jut of land and cut through calmer water.


http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/haggis65/102_3732.jpg

Here I found the Ultimate to be real stealthy. This is one quiet boat, it eased through the water and allowed me to sneak up on a beaver and a muskrat not to mention a couple of geese.


http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/haggis65/102_3739.jpg

This is my favorite kind of paddling, working through flooded timber or lily pad waters watching and observing the wildlife there. The lily pads and duck weed aren't above the surface yet, but with some sunny days and warm temps on the way it won't take long for them to reach to the surface. I found the boat pretty nimble and was pleased with it's shallow draft as it would ease silently over submerged timber with ease. I should have brought my fishing gear as a glided over a bunch of nice pan fish and a few keeper bass. Next time we'll see what I can hook.


http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/haggis65/102_3735.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/haggis65/102_3737.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/haggis65/102_3743.jpg

We live in a major flyway for waterfowl and at this time of year if there is a puddle of water you'll probably find a bunch of geese and ducks looking for a nesting site. I almost missed this mama goose as she was well hunkered down on her nest as I passed by her...


http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/haggis65/102_3744.jpg

I spied a bald eagle and a couple of ospreys as well. I even got to watch one of the osprey hover above the pond before striking into the water to catch a fish. Than as the clouds came back in and then the sprinkles started I headed back to the launch. I spent about three hours on the pond and am real happy with my new boat. It's not the fastest, but it tracks real well, is stable as all get out and is the quietest boat on the water I've ever been around. Also, it is the most comfortable boat I've ever paddled. The seat is real easy to adjust on the move as are the foot rests. I'm half afraid to let Michelle paddle it. I think she'll steal it and make me go get another boat. :elkgrin:

[Squatchout]

Nice, I knew you'd like that boat! Great pics!