POD: Homebuilt foam core fiberglass skin pop-up camper build thread

[pods8]

This is the build thread steaming off my design thread: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54664

General design concept picture:
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/Plan01.jpg

NOTE: First off this is a spare time project in my garage, I work full time and have a 10mo old son needing attention as well so folks will need to bear with in terms of progress, it'll be what it will be.

Personally I've always wondered the time spent doing some of the builds I've read about so I'm going to try and keep a running hours log going as I post updates (this doesn't touch on design/research time). A lot of my initial progress will likely be a couple hours here and there, which for the time being works since I have to wait for epoxy to cure. I'll just give a quick summary and a picture or two.

UPDATE #1 (5hrs in): A bulk order of epoxy was placed last week which should be arriving this Friday. This likely won't be enough epoxy to finish things off but will go a long ways while I refine the final number needed later on. Friday I picked up a load of foamular 600 that I'll be using as the core. Over the weekend I ripped a sheet of plywood into 2" strips to use in my core build, cut the bulk floor foam pieces and started putting them together. I still have some epoxy left from testing so I was able to get going this weekend with that. The first pieces I put together made me realize I needed some long pipe clams so I stopped after the first seam and picked up some clamps the next day to finish putting the other chunks together. After this cures I'll cut this into slices and add wood strips in the other direction to form a grid. I plan to sheet the floor core with 1/8" plywood which I'll epoxy and narrow crown staple down, then I'll glass over the top of it. Probably more robust than needed but off all things the floor needs to be strong.

I also made up four final test laminates since my earlier pieces were made with foamular 250, also I'm trying another fabric in there. I'll make a final decision after these pieces cure for a week or so and place my bulk fiberglass fabric order.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/Foamload.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/Build001.jpg

[Climber Rob]

Very cool! Looking forward to seeing this one take shape.

[windsock]

It is good to see you go forward with this project. I will be watching with a great deal of interest. All the best.

Cheers,

Phil

[Heifer Boy]

Go for it pods8!!! :wings:

I'm really looking forward to watching your build take shape after all the design discussions. I'm sure you will change your ideas and refine others on the journey. It only gets better from here.

Do you fancy putting a time frame on this? :bigbossHL:

HB

[riveroceanandmountain]

subscribed! :coffeedrink:

[4 play]

:coffeedrink:

[pods8]

Go for it pods8!!! :wings:

I'm really looking forward to watching your build take shape after all the design discussions. I'm sure you will change your ideas and refine others on the journey. It only gets better from here.

Do you fancy putting a time frame on this? :bigbossHL:

HB

Well since half of the fine details are still in the air I'd definitely say stuff will change. ;) Juggling a bunch of details right now that need to start getting checked off the list to allow progress on the other sections. That is why I've started on the floor first, fairly straight forward. I'll have some extra hard point blocking to allow some mounting flexibility, etc. Plus I can likely utilized the floor up on some saw horses as a work table. :coffeedrink:

Timeframe? Well in my ideal world I'd like the shell done in early summer followed my the bulk interior frame in. I don't mind if the finer details of cabinetry, etc. carried into the fall/winter if needed. However as mentioned it will be what it will be and I just need to manage my expectations. In my excitement I had hoped to cut up the floor slices last night so one of the days this week I could run out and glue in the perpendicular wood runs. However it was dry outside (with rain predicted the rest of the week) so the lawn took priority and I was only able to trim up the edges*** on the test pieces I made up before I had to move on with dinner/family time. I still hope to knock some of this stuff out mid week. Again in my ideal schedule, I'd like to sheet the floor with the 1/8" ply this weekend.

*** Technical note for anyone wanting to learn about fiberglass work, when you're finishing cloth lamination on a edge of a piece an easy way to get a clean edge is to lay up the cloth with 1/4-1/2" overhang (too much overhang and it'll sag and potentially lift the cloth off the edge), then let it partially cure till the epoxy is no longer sticky but still has some pliability. At this point you can slice right along your piece with a knife to trim up the edge and then smooth it the rest of the way with a few swipes of a sanding block. However if you miss this window the stuff is MUCH harder to cut/sand. Since I'm working in cooler temps right now I fortunately am able to still be able to do this trim work 24hrs later.

[eugene]

Your reason #1 is the reason I started with a fixer upper from craigslist. I have something that with a little bit of work can be used now even if its old and ugly. I can then work on replacing a part at a time over a longer period of time by building a new part then swapping it for the old. For example when I first got it i measured and duplicated the kitchen counter then swapped it out. Then did the roof one side at a time., then went on to the back door then the back wall then the floor and cabinets. I make each new section and then replace the old. So I have a pattern to copy off of and hold the new up against to check before removing whats there.
Yes I had a little more up front cost buying the old camper but I also was able to skip all the design and trial and error for the layout because I have an existing layout and can just make changes or improvements to it. And if I were in a state where i had to register a camper then i can show its still a repaired palimino bronco instead of having to go through any home designed paperwork,

[pods8]

Your reason #1 is the reason I started with a fixer upper from craigslist. I have something that with a little bit of work can be used now even if its old and ugly. I can then work on replacing a part at a time over a longer period of time by building a new part then swapping it for the old. For example when I first got it i measured and duplicated the kitchen counter then swapped it out. Then did the roof one side at a time., then went on to the back door then the back wall then the floor and cabinets. I make each new section and then replace the old. So I have a pattern to copy off of and hold the new up against to check before removing whats there.
Yes I had a little more up front cost buying the old camper but I also was able to skip all the design and trial and error for the layout because I have an existing layout and can just make changes or improvements to it. And if I were in a state where i had to register a camper then i can show its still a repaired palimino bronco instead of having to go through any home designed paperwork,

No other older camper on the market would fit the bill as a doner. I don't want soft sides, I want it to fit a flat bed, side access door, etc. An older alaskan might be a really rough starting block but I'd end up redoing 95% of it so might as well start from scratch.

I should note I already have a FWC hawk so its not like I don't have a camper in the meantime, technically this project could take as long as it needs and I can still camp. My time frame goals are to free up the garage and put this new on to use! Once I'm satisfied in the status of this one I'll be selling off my FWC which will offset a portion of this build cost.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/IMG_2377Small.jpg

[SLO_F-250]

pods,
Looking forward to watching your build. I was following the DD thread. Keep it up! :victory:

[pods8]

UPDATE #2 (16.5hrs in): Hoped to be a little farther along in general, and for the hours put in but the floor is one of the more involved chunks due to the grid and multiple hard point blocks installed. Now I have to wait for things to cure for a bit so I can sand the excess epoxy/filler off the top/bottom and level things out before I lay down the 1/8" plywood sheets over things. The cooler temps make for longer pot life time with the epoxy but also takes longer to set up, if I tired to move forward and sand right now it'd just get all gummy.

So what I have going here: 1/2" plywood grid which I'll attached the plywood sheets to (along with surface gluing to the whole floor pack), this serves to make sure the two skins stay well connected to each other and don't just relay on the bond to the foam alone. The corners have wood hard points that I can attach the eventual jack brackets into (the sides will have similar hard points in the corners for the brackets). There is also a plywood chunk in each corner to distribute the vertical load if I go with hydraulic rams. There is a 10"x10" 1/2" plywood chunk recessed into the foam to mount the table base to. The other 4 plywood chunks (forward set closer to the center, rear set farther apart) are in case I want to bolt through the floor to attach this to the flat bed. There is a 3.5"x3.5" 1.5" thick block centered under the 6"x6" 1/2" plywood. Right now I'll see about using the jack brackets to mount the camper but in case that doesn't work out I've got these bolt through points to fall back on. The 2" wide flat plywood strips around the perimeter is a theme I plan to carry through the interface points between all the various panels. I plan to screw the panels together while temporarily assembled, then strip apart to do the fiberglass work in the horizontal and then reassemble. They will again allow me to screw things together while the epoxy sets up joining things together, the screw holes will be filled and covered over when I lay down the fiberglass strips over all the joints which will really tie things fully together.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build002.jpg

[windsock]

Your many hours of research and investigation of method is paying dividends. Looking very thorough and well thought out. Liking what I see with the plywood inserted as you have done. You call it a grid. Great strength can be attained this way. We called them 'stringers' on surfboards. Multiple stringers = increased strength. I can see where 16 hours have gone for sure, no mucking around as you have achieved a lot.

What are you cutting the foam and plywood with between photo 1 and photo 2 in your posts above?

Once you start glassing over large flat areas, how are you going to sand flat over these large areas? When we worked on fairing the hulls of yachts we used what was colloquially termed an 'idiot' board. A long semi flexible board the width of a strip of sandpaper. The closest picture I can find online is here.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv211/sideslippa/002-5.jpg

The top two were similar to what we used but were longer. In some cases they were so long it took two of us to wield them. The flexibility of the board was determined by the roundness of the hull to be faired and the location of the handles on the back of the boards. The length determined by the amount of area to be covered. In your case, a reasonably rigid board about one to one and a half metres in length with a rough grade of sand paper would knock the rough bits off quickly. If it gummed up we used a wire brush to clean up the sandpaper. Once fully cured, the sanding was easy but monotonous (hence the term 'idiot'). A far greater area was covered than you would be able to cover with a hand sander or orbital sander. It was also 'flat' depending on the flexibility of the board used. We found we could easily form depressions with small sanding instruments sanding a large flat area.

Keep up the good posts. Enjoying seeing your ideas formulate.

Cheers,

Phil

[pods8]

With the foam core in there I don't know if they'd be called stringers in the traditional sense or not but whatever works. The function I'm using them for though is to ensure the two skins stay tied together as wood obviously has a much higher shear strength than foam (also the epoxy penetrates a little better so combined its hard to peel glass off wood than foam). A delamination of the skins from the foam starts giving up strength in this type of construction.

To insert the perpendicular "stringers" I went ahead and just cut up the whole floor into 4 strips since I'm not relying on the structural aspects of the grid, however just because it didn't take much extra time I did notch out a small chunk of foam on each side of the wood so I'd get an adhesive fillet between in and the new wood piece.

To insert the plywood pieces that are flush I'm using a router bit chucked into a rotozip (works great for the low cutting demands, easier to handle, and allows me to leave the router mounted on the router table).

The floor is my test piece on sanding since I'll be covering the bottom exterior in bedliner (will be forgiving in lack of fairness) and the interior will have some flooring over as well. Since I'm working with such flat stuff I'm going to see how my 1/4 sheet hand sander works out, if I need a larger surface area to fair things I'll end up using long board like you're talking about.

[Heifer Boy]

Nice work pods8. It's amazing how many things you have to think about for the future and ensure they are all in place now before you go and laminate it all together. Looks like you just have everything covered with your inserts.

I like your 'grid' idea. It's kind of like how the teardrop guys build a wall by framing on a piece of ply and then filling between with insulation. But in your case you have done without the outside wall and fibreglass instead while still have the hardpoints you need. Very clever.

@windsock

I watched some kayak builds on YouTube the other day and they were using these long boards for finishing off their fibreglassed externals. Looked really good and produced a beautiful finish on a curved surface. I was thinking of maybe using one on my build. I don't want to highjack pods8 thread but how flexible are the boards? Would they work as well on a flat surface or would I be better off with just a random orbital?

[Billhilly]

Great start Pods. Looks really good.
I like the idiot board idea too.

[windsock]

I watched some kayak builds on YouTube the other day and they were using these long boards for finishing off their fibreglassed externals. Looked really good and produced a beautiful finish on a curved surface. I was thinking of maybe using one on my build. I don't want to highjack pods8 thread but how flexible are the boards? Would they work as well on a flat surface or would I be better off with just a random orbital?

Sorry if deemed a hijack in response. The beauty of the long boards for sanding is that you get a large area covered evenly versus a small area possibly unevenly as with hand sanding. It may seem like an even job is done with a small sander but once the gloss coat goes on any minor hump or hollow is exaggerated. May not matter much in some quarters but on yachts where the beauty is in the lines, it mattered much. I guess the same can be said for camper lines too. On surfaces meant to be flat in apperance, humps and hollows can easily be avoided using a long board that is rigid enough to absorb the pressure applied by the arms to do the job. For curved surfaces i would use ply that is thick enough to 'just' take the shape of the curve under pressure. For flat surfaces I would use timber with very little flex at all. The sanding action is important too. Always keep the strokes moving around and never sand in one place too long. Spot sand for obvious bumps but use the long board to get large areas flat (or curved areas curved smoothly whatever is required).

[Heifer Boy]

Thanks for the tips windsock. That sounds great so I think I will make one up and give it a try.

Back to you pods8...

[pods8]

It was a relevant sort of hijack and has me thinking a tad more.

I'm wondering if trying out a cheapie inline air sander: $30 harbor freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/2-3-4-quarter-inch-x-17-1-2-half-inch-air-inline-sander-91773.html) would be worthwhile or not. I've also heard of folks converting over a foam pad polisher to a fairing sander by putting a piece of thin plywood over the foam and then sticking the sandpaper to that... Hmm got a couple days to stew/obtain supplies.

[r_w]

Those sanders work, but you need to make sure they don't blow oily exhaust onto your work. Some come with exhaust filters, some don't. Those that don't can be retrofitted with some gauze and duct tape.

ETA: the cheap ones take a LOT of air to run--that one is 5 CFM @ 90. If you don't have a huge compressor, it is worth the money to get a better brand with a more efficient air motor.

[pods8]

Those sanders work, but you need to make sure they don't blow oily exhaust onto your work. Some come with exhaust filters, some don't. Those that don't can be retrofitted with some gauze and duct tape.

ETA: the cheap ones take a LOT of air to run--that one is 5 CFM @ 90. If you don't have a huge compressor, it is worth the money to get a better brand with a more efficient air motor.

Very true, I've got a 20gal compressor but would need to double check the continuous CFM rating, that might be pushing it. Edit: I just checked it out, it is a 25gal 2hp unit rated for 6.8cfm @ 90psi so I've got a bit more air to work with than I expected.

The sandpaper/plywood mod on a buffer might be something more to check into as well since amps are easier to supply than CFM. ;)

[stomperxj]

Subscribed.... Great progress and awesome info :)

[pods8]

Those test pieces on this foamular 600 foam (verse the foamular 250 I was previously experimenting with) had sufficiently cured and I subjected them to the hammer test. In reality this is asking for much more impact strength than really needed, I mean if you hit an aluminum sided camper that didn't have foam bonded on the backside (ie like my FWC with fiberglass insulation) this hard with a hammer you'd likely punch into it. But its something to shoot for.

Below is the photo of the 4 test pieces with a HARD hammer hit to the center, all performed in a manner I'd generally be comfortable with using. The 2ply piece experiences more deformation but still fared okay. Three plys did well, yes there is cracking in the matrix but not a total failure. The 2 plys over 1/8" plywood held up the best as could be expected but its a definite weight trade off.
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build003.jpg

I know the questions will inevitably fly on weight, cost, etc. so I'll shine light on the information I put together to help decide on the path for the shell construction. I weighed each of those sample pieces as I assembled them. The results below show the component weights. I had to make an assumed correction for the glass weight since the pieces are cut oversized and then trimmed after the epoxy has set up a bit. I used the published weight figures for the cloth to make the correction. I was expecting a realistic glass ratio of near 50% so the 55% is appealing and I believe realistic for these flat pieces.

Below that is a summary matrix of which type of ply schedule on interior and exterior verse the weight. This is based on a rough estimate of 400ft^2 for my shell. This is the weight before the weave is filled/faired and painted. There is no allowance for windows, fittings, etc, etc. Just gives a ballpark weight for foam panel construction on its own. Also no allowance for the wood inserts I'm doing in my build but that would be the same no matter with ply schedule I went with.

And finally the cost of just the foam, glass, and epoxy to make those shell configurations. Again no allowance for shipping, tax, application supplies, etc. These are just rough decision guidance calculations.

Enough with the caveats here's the numbers:
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/MaterialSummary.jpg

[windsock]

Excellent post pods8. I don't recall reading what you do for a living but I would hazard a guess at scientific or engineering. Your approach equates to a high level of analysis and I appreciate you putting it up here for us. :D

I started to wonder about the hammer test after you wrote up on it above. Is it possible to do a crush test under known pressure conditions? That is use a mechanical press and say an area of pressure of twice to three times the area of the hammer head. It would be interesting to assess the kind of pressure your coating preparations can cope with before deformation and then penetration. I would think with a larger area the results would be surprisingly good given the hammer test results.

When I made and lived in a large truck and camper (many years ago now) I made the shell out of steel frame and aluminium skin mostly. In the high impact areas, (i.e., lower sides and front quarters of the cab-over), I used painted plywood. If it was damaged (and it was frequently) it was a simple case of fitting new ply over the damaged area until I was next able to repair with a new ply section. Worked well and I was wondering given the ability of the ply in your test to absorb high impact, maybe if concerned about damage, have a ply layer in the potential high impact areas only and glass-over the rest.

Keep up the great work. Liking it a lot! :victory:

PS (edit). I hope you are keeping all your test pieces. All joined together after the build completion in chronological order and framed would make a nice conversation piece in the workshop... :D

[pods8]

I don't recall that I've ever said what I do. I tend to want to let posts ride on their own merit (or get critiqued accordingly) without as much weight riding on the background of the poster. You're barking up the right tree though, however much of this building approach is new to me and has nothing to do with my professional knowledge set, I've just used my research/tinkering skill set to bring me up to the point I'm at on foam core/composite type work. Lots of reading on composite airplane building and some boat stuff. So with that I'll say this disclaimer: Don't take anything in my thread as professional advice and you're on your own liability. :)

I don't have the resources to do a known load compression test, if someone with that stuff wanted a test piece made up to play around with I can make one up from scraps as I get time. However from a more practical look, anything that can take the rapid impact of a hammer hit, which has both a lot of load but also rapid application of it, decently well should survive most situations I'll throw at it. The main section that I'll put the most critical eye on is the rails on the cab over section, those will require a build up of multiple plys to support the cantilever.

I've got a pile of the pieces that I'm made and beat up, I don't have any real intention of holding onto them long term, they're just around for the meantime if I need to interrogate something on them further. After that I'll need the space! :coffeedrink:



Tiny update: I picked up one of those $30 inline sanders from HF and ran it for a little while, it runs fine on my compressor and I think it'll work nice for fairing work but even with 36 grit it was slower going knocking down elevation differences. So in the interest of time I think I'm going to pick up a cheap hand held belt sander to do the rough knock down work.

[Heifer Boy]

Tiny update: I picked up one of those $30 inline sanders from HF and ran it for a little while, it runs fine on my compressor and I think it'll work nice for fairing work but even with 36 grit it was slower going knocking down elevation differences. So in the interest of time I think I'm going to pick up a cheap hand held belt sander to do the rough knock down work.

I succumbed the other day bought a belt sander too. It's a very handy tool but pretty brutal if you're not careful. I had rented one years ago for a quick job but figured I could justify buying on this time. It was just a $69 cheapy which is a day hire for one so I'm ahead already.

I also made up one of the 'idiot' long boards windsock was talking about the other day similar to the ones in his photo. I made up a stiff on on a 15mm ply base becasue I'm just sanding large flat surfaces. A quick play around and I love it. What a great tool!! I'm actually looking foward to the final external coats now.

[pods8]

Update 3 (27hrs in): A $30 harbor freight inline sander and $30 harbor freight belt sander were good investments on this project (note if I know I'm going to use a tool a bunch I'll splurge for quality but these things will likely get used/abused on this project and not have too much other use so the HF stuff should fit the bill well). 80grit on the belt sander along the wood areas to knock that all flush and then 36grit on the inline to fair out the foam. My compressor doesn't quite keep up for continuous use of the inline but it only slowly looses ground so I can get a good chunk of continuous sanding before I need to hold off and let it fully catch up before hitting things again. I think this will come in handy while doing fairing work after the glassing as well.

1/8" ply was epoxied down top and bottom with narrow crown staples & some pavers to hold things in place in the meantime. I had one mild bonehead move in that I drew out where the wood was on the upper 1/8" ply for easier reference later but then proceeded to staple down the first sheet mirrored in the wrong direction (front to back) due to the core being in a different position after I had flipped it from doing the bottom and me not thinking about it till after some staples had left the gun. Easy enough to just transfer the marks later though so no real harm other than a bit of wasted time.

The 1/8" ply is slightly oversized right now. I'll use a flush trim router bit along the top edge and a 1/2" radius bit along the bottom foam edge to trim it up later.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build004.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build005.jpg

[Heifer Boy]

Good work pods8. Can I borrow some of your paving slabs? A couple of those would have come in handy a while back... :)

[Billhilly]

Looking great.

[pods8]

Good work pods8. Can I borrow some of your paving slabs? A couple of those would have come in handy a while back... :)

I was feeling bad last fall when I didn't get around to laying these into place for a larger landing outside my garage side door, however right about now having a handy pile of concrete blocks is rather nice. :coffeedrink:

If I was doing the whole construction with plywood skins I'd probably think about a vacuum pump instead though.

[Lynn]

Pardon me for feeding the hijck, but I've been wondering if an old waterbed matress would be good for weighting a large panel. Whata ya think?

[pods8]

Pardon me for feeding the hijck, but I've been wondering if an old waterbed matress would be good for weighting a large panel. Whata ya think?

If you wanted to deal with it I'd think it okay for a bit of even pressure but pumping water in and out, etc. doesn't sound fun. If you're barking up that realm where you want a good solid constant pressure a vacuum pump would likely be much easier. Say a water bed mattress is 6" thick? If so that would get you ~1psi of pressure. Where as a vacuum pump pulling 27inHg would deliver ~13psi. It only takes ~2inHg of vacuum to deliver the same pressure as 6" of water. So if you're got the need for it perhaps check into that a bit more over a water bed mattress.

I didn't really see the need for it in this application in the way I laid down the epoxy and stapled the plys down. Since I had the pavers handy I tossed them on for good measure as well though. Don't get me wrong if I had a decent sized vacuum pump sitting around already I would have likely tried throwing together a vacuum bag out of thick visqueen and tape but I wasn't going to go out of my way for it.

[Birder]

Ahhhh, but you could sleep on the job then Pods8 :)

Cool build

[Home Skillet]

Looking really good Pods. I really like the imbedded wood. The attention to detail now will really pay off later.

I don't think vac bagging is a very good option here. Its not nessecary and adds a ton of extra work and effort for essentially the same outcome. What you are doing will work fine, probably even better than what I did and mine is good enough.

Keep it up!

Home Skillet

[Kilroy]

Really interesting and well written build. Look forward to watching your progress. Thanks

[pods8]

Update 4 (35hrs in): Did some cleaning/rearranging in the garage and used up some of the stacked materials so I'd free'd up space to move around a bit more. The overhanging 1/8" ply on the floor was trimmed, there were some gaps along the edge between the core and plywood so I filled those in with a thickened epoxy mixture and will need to resand/smooth all that out.

The floor creates a nice work platform in the meantime as well. I quickly did the rough outline of most of the lower walls and cut/fit the chunks of foam in the sections that aren't question marks. The other areas have windows/heater vents/propane hatch, etc. that I need final dimensions on so I can fit the wood/foam accordingly. Once I know that I'll glue the cores all together and fair them out to prep them for glassing (they are just friction fit, taped/clamped together right now). But it is good to see some shape coming together.

Sections mocked up together
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build006.jpg

Broken back down for the day
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build007.jpg

[Billhilly]

Nice progress Pods! You are going to have a great camper.
Note to self. Must get truck finished so I can consider a camper!!

[Heifer Boy]

Looking good pods8 :coffeedrink:

In that 2nd photo I can see the thin skeleton frame you have made up. Did you just rip some ply to make these pieces and staple them together? Do you cut the foam and fit the frame around that or make the frame and fit the foam to it?

Also, when you laminated your floor, how did you spread out the epoxy to ensure an even coverage? Did you coat the foam and frame or 1/8" ply? Lastly, did you thicken the epoxy for this or just use it mixed?

[pods8]

Looking good pods8 :coffeedrink:

In that 2nd photo I can see the thin skeleton frame you have made up. Did you just rip some ply to make these pieces and staple them together? Do you cut the foam and fit the frame around that or make the frame and fit the foam to it?

Also, when you laminated your floor, how did you spread out the epoxy to ensure an even coverage? Did you coat the foam and frame or 1/8" ply? Lastly, did you thicken the epoxy for this or just use it mixed?

Short answer: yes. :)


Strips are ripped 1/2" ply. For the floor I fit the wood to the foam and clamped it all togther, seemed like it might have been easier to make the grid. For the walls I'm going the other direction by gluing/stapling the "frames" together and fitting the foam to them. I think it will be more suiting to the walls construction that way.

For the floor core I used a thickened epoxy to glue the foam and wood strips together. Then I sanded/faired it. When it was time to put down the 1/8" ply I quickly squeeged a coat of straight epoxy onto the back side of the 1/8" ply and brushed a straight coat of epoxy over the plywood grid (wanted to make sure the wood had ample epoxy on it so it didn't adsorb too much later and "starve" the joints). Then I spread thickened epoxy over the foam (under one sheet of ply at a time), I was working with a regular squeegee and a notched squeegee. I'd pour the blob of thickened epoxy down and use the regular squeegee to skim a coat over the area I was working and make sure it got pushed into all the nooks, sanding grooves, etc. to "bite" into the foam as much as I could. I then used a 1/16" V notched spreader to leave a ridged layer behind. I just worked my way down one sheet of covered, flipped on the 1/8" ply and stapled it and then moved onto the other half. (Then flipped the whole thing over and did the other side the same way).

For epoxy thickening I have bulk microspheres, cab-o-sil, and wood flour that I'll use in various combination. Mircrospheres are light and bulk out the epoxy, they aren't very structural but are stronger than the foam so they have use in the foam interfaces. Cab-o-sil smoothes things out and mainly is used because it is thixotropic (helps avoid the epoxy from running). Wood flour is heavier than microspheres but is cheap, has structural properties, and is also somewhat thixotropic.

I'm playing around with mixtures as I go. For foam interfaces a 3 parts micro : 1 part cab-o-sil is my starting point. For structural bond 2-3 parts wood flour : 1 part cab-o-sil is my starting point. For gluing down the 1/8" ply I did a hybrid so I had some wood flour in there for the grid to 1/8" ply joints but also bulked it up with micro since the majority of the joint was to foam. That mixture was 3 parts micro : 3 parts wood flour : 2 parts cab-o-sil. I mixed that to a peanut butter thickness with the epoxy.

[pods8]

Update 5 (43.5hrs in) Received the rear window and propane hatch and completed the rear and drive side lower wall core framing out. Still waiting on the front window so I can wrap that wall up. Have some questions in my head on the door so I'll probably sand bag that wall for now.

I glued up the driver and rear wall to get it all tied together, I'll likely have a couple quick sessions of filling in the gaps on each side still present after the initial assembly. Also will need to get in the water hatch hole (wanted to glue in the blocking to the core first). I think I might wait to drill in the water drain and waste drain ports until later on.

I'll likely turn my attention to the cab over section next for core work. Also I need to get the bulk fiberglass order placed so I can start splitting my time between core work and glassing up structures.

Driver side wall (exterior) mocked up, large hole is the propane, to the side of that is the furnace exhaust. The recessed blocking on the upper left is for the water fill (it will be under the overlapping hard wall when the top is down). The other wood blocks are for drilling in drains (and possibly the electrical connection, haven't decided on this wall or the passenger side yet so I included a block) and having something to screw them into.
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build008.jpg

Rear wall (interior), fairly basic with a 24"x24" rear window framed out and some wood hard points for attaching a mount for the bottom of the actuators to (the side wall interior had similar blocking).
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build009.jpg

The epoxied up cores clamped & weighted down (one on top of the other).
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build010.jpg

[Overland Hadley]

A little late, but just wanted to be sure you want to vent your heater right next to the propane vent and tank. Should be just fine, but I would have given it more space if possible.

But hey, everything is a compromise. I am not even planning on having a propane storage area, just the tank under the sink. So who am I to talk. :)

[Flagster]

Once I'm satisfied in the status of this one I'll be selling off my FWC which will offset a portion of this build cost.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/IMG_2377Small.jpg

I'll buy your hawk:)

[pods8]

I'll buy your hawk:)

You're not the first to express that thought. ;) Just for clarification "Once I'm satisfied in the status of this one" will likely mean the shell of the new one is complete. Around that point is when I'll probably list up my hawk for sale, I'll make mention of it in my thread. :)

[pods8]

Mid weekend update: So the foam I'm using only comes in 2" thick pieces, but I wanted some 1" thick stuff so here's my DIY "Hot Wire Foam Planner". :)

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build011.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build012.jpg

[Pest]

Mid weekend update: So the foam I'm using only comes in 2" thick pieces, but I wanted some 1" thick stuff so here's my DIY "Hot Wire Foam Planner". :)


I like it. Gonna have to post the instructions on that little gizmo!

[pods8]

I like it. Gonna have to post the instructions on that little gizmo!

Same basic concept that is floating around the internet for a cheap hot wire power supply. Dimmer + transform putting power into a suitable wire. Most of the stuff I used was scraps laying around, I need to buy the transformer, fuse holder/fuses, and alligator clips.

120V input -> on/off switch (optional) -> dimmer -> fuse (optional) -> transformer: Then the transformer output goes to two wires with alligator clips to my cutting wire.

The on/off switch is optional if you just want to use the dimmer switch but with the on/off switch you can leave the dimmer set on the heat setting you want. You don't NEED a fuse but if you pull too many amps through the transformer you'll cook it, so I stuck an inline holder with a slow blow fuse in there for good measure. I happen to be using a 12V 3amp transformer from radio shack. Ideally a nickle chromoly welding wire supposedly cuts the best but I'm just using some 50lb rated stainless steel wire from homedepot that I could quickly/cheaply get and it's working fine for my needs.

The rest is just setting up a wire to do what you want. I have this wire setup between two bolts and have shims under the wire to dial in the ~1" thickness I wanted. Since I was cutting long sheets I wanted some guides to hold the foam down so that is what those two bar clamp across there for. The other clamps are just holding the cutting table down to the saw horses.

[EuroJoe]

might be an option for my cap idea

[pods8]

Update 6 (68.5hrs in): Been a little harder to work in time lately so no update until now. I've now glued up and surface sanded the front, driver side, and rear wall. I've remounted them so I can fit them to each other (and the floor) and do additional fairing sanding to the cores now before I go glassing them which will make any future sanding much harder. I need to turn some attention to how I'll do the door/latches so I can at least do the fixed wall portions so the passenger side can similarly get faired in.

I've started putting together the floor portion of the cabover as well with the 1" thick material I "planned" with the hotwire. After running the calcs on the siderails I've formed a plan of action there which I need to get some supplies on order for so I can build those and fit the rest of that up as well.

After all that is just a bit of sanding/router work to make round corners and smoother transitions between pieces. Then it gets broken apart and glassed up.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build013.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build014.jpg

(Note the cab through window is inset on the inside due to what I was able to readily source. The rest are flush inside/out. )
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build015.jpg

[washington taco]

pods8 will you be at the Overland Rally in Ellensburg? Would love to see your work. This is outstanding work!

[liftedlimo]

Can't wait to see the results! I might base my next camper of your construction. Keep up the good work!

[pods8]

pods8 will you be at the Overland Rally in Ellensburg? Would love to see your work. This is outstanding work!

Honestly I wasn't even following along to know there was one. However being realistic it would be pretty damn optimistic on my end to have to shell completed by then based on how much time I've been able to get in each week. I'll get there eventually. :coffeedrink:

I'm open to talking shop with interested parties though so don't feel intimidated if you want to chat or see the state of things at some point (should be more entertaining down the road when there is more to see!).

Update 7 (82.5hrs in): The cabover floor has all the wood inserts I was planning to add cut in and installed, still needs to be sanded. I cut/fit the two passenger side wall pieces that form the door jambs and glued them together, still need to fill/sand them. I was a bit zoned out while building the cabover side of the wall and only built it to the height of the front wall rather than the cabover rail height actually needed. It's not that big of a deal since I can just extend the cabover rail piece with the only extra aspect being I need to continue the door jamb up the edge of that.

Although I'll be out of town over memorial weekend I should have the supplies for the cabover rails when I get back and I hope to quickly knock those out and sand/fair out everything and then break it down to start glassing in early June. Here's hoping...

Passenger side wall/door jambs cut/fit prior to gluing up.
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build016.jpg

Passenger side walls glued up. The cabover floor is standing the in background.
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/build017.jpg

[pods8]

Update 8 (101hrs in): Little slower on the progress due to some travel over memorial weekend and going camping this coming weekend (that is why I'm holding onto my FWC currently ;)). But some good visual progress was finally made. The cabover pieces were assembled, filled, and sanded. I fit up the cabover today. Honestly it didn't go as smooth as I'd have liked as the floor wasn't quite fitting up right, something got out of square (likely a cumulative of tolerances in the assembly). I ended up trimming off a wedge from one side and epoxying it onto the other to work the floor into fitting.

Next stage is break out the sanders/router to radius various corners and smooth each piece into the next. Then they will be disassembled and glassing begins. I had hoped to finish this portion off today but the fitment issues burned up too much time. As always I just gotta roll with the punches and keep my timeline flexible.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-06-12_14-20-38_531-1.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-06-12_18-17-10_331.jpg

[Billhilly]

Wondered how you were getting on Pods.
Really looking good. So how many pieces are you breaking it down to before you start glassing it?

[pods8]

Wondered how you were getting on Pods.
Really looking good. So how many pieces are you breaking it down to before you start glassing it?

I'm breaking it down to all flat pieces so I can do the glass work with them lying flat, I'm thinking the extra effort to then reassemble them will be offset by the easier time working in the horizontal plane. 8 pieces: Floor, Driver side wall (including cabover rail), front wall, back wall, front cabover short wall, cabover floor, rear portion of passenger wall, front portion of cabover wall (including cabover rail).

[Kilroy]

I'm breaking it down to all flat pieces so I can do the glass work with them lying flat, I'm thinking the extra effort to then reassemble them will be offset by the easier time working in the horizontal plane. 8 pieces: Floor, Driver side wall (including cabover rail), front wall, back wall, front cabover short wall, cabover floor, rear portion of passenger wall, front portion of cabover wall (including cabover rail).

Won't your clearances for putting back together all be off after you've applied glass? Thought glass would be binding it all together.

[pods8]

Won't your clearances for putting back together all be off after you've applied glass? Thought glass would be binding it all together.

The panel/panel interface clearances hasn't been what I'm sanding/fairing out by test fitting, it's the outter surfaces/edges (not sure if that makes sense in words). I'm just trying to knock down the drastic high spots to minimize, not eliminate, sanding/fit work later.

The glass will be binding it all together, I'll have to cut cloth "tape" strips to apply a ply schedule across each joint. It's an extra step this way but I suspect it'll be far worth it compared to trying to glass this thing as a whole unit in my garage. Doing the bulk fiberglass work in the horizontal plane should be much much easier. Then the cloths "tape" strips will be wet out on plastic sheeting on the work bench and carried over and worked into place.

If I had a larger shop with more space and vertical height and a set of scaffolding I'd likely do the thing as a whole by flipping it around to do each panel horizontally.

(No progress to report, when camping over the weekend).

[Heifer Boy]

I'll have to cut cloth "tape" strips to apply a ply schedule across each joint...

...Then the cloths "tape" strips will be wet out on plastic sheeting on the work bench and carried over and worked into place.

%

[pods8]

%

?? :confused:

[Heifer Boy]

Bugger !!! :mad: I spend a long time on that reply last night and then had connection problems and ended up post 3 times last night. I cleaned it up but must have clean up too much.


What I was on about was I asked why you are using the method of wetting out the cloth the way you are?


For laminating I read up on both the dry method and the wet method of applying the cloth. The dry method won hands down!! The wet method (which was applying dry cloth to a wet surface) proved to be very difficult to get cloth flat and wrinkle free and generally used significantly more resin too. I tried a little bit of this method and it proved to be the case and everything else I did laying ouy dry first and then applying the resin.


I found the most difficult part of the laminating I did concerned the edges. Cut cloth edges fray like crazy regardless of how careful you are and trying to get them in place with a sticky resin soaked squeegee was frustracting. A roller or a brush was even worse as it all caught on the frayed edge and pulled off and dragged the wet cloth about the place. Very time consuming to get tidy and bubble free. So I ended up using larger over hangs and triming up after the resin has gelled. Much easier and much tidier.


In your case I think lamintating the panel horizontally is a great idea and you should get a nice consistent finish that way. Then you can just feather the edges and 'tape' as you have described. I'd recommend laying a line of masking tape 50mm out from your corners and cutting your cloth to about 200mm wide strips. Then you lay cloth and you can hold this on place temporarily with tape or thumb tacks or staples if needed. Then pour on your resin and squeegee to your taped lines and over the edge to the other taped lines. Although this bit is vertical you soon get and idea of how much resin to scrap over the edge. Then trim along the masking tape line and peel off the excess once gelled and you are left with a nice clean wrap over your joint. Same for the the vertical joints and you will definitely have to hold the cloth tape temporarily but once you get going from the top down the resin will hold it in place easily. Apply the resin with a brush and squeegee to your taped lines and down to remove the excess.


Loving the build BTW. The detail you have put into the frames and walls is outstanding and I can't wait to see it become a solid box. It's hugely satisfying :wings:

I hope this post works this time...

[Heifer Boy]

Now I'm not getting any line spacing!!! And a big chunk of what I said went missing from the middle!!! What's going on!!!

All fixed up now.

[stomperxj]

Now I'm not getting any line spacing!!! What's going on!!!

Looks legible to me HB....

[Heifer Boy]

That's weird?!? I had problems with my desktop connection last night and still today so I wrote the post above on my netbook. On it I couldn't see any line spacing on my post even though they were definitely there in the msg box. Now I am back on my desktop and I can see everything formated correctly!!!

I've just checked the netbook again and there's no line spacing. It must be something to do with the netbook 10" screen size. Not something I've noticed before though. Hmmm:coffee:

[pods8]

All methods are subject to change based on how I like using them. ;)

When you mention the method of wetting out are you talking about wetting the cloth tape on plastic sheeting I was talking about for tape work? If so I've read that laying out your cloth on plastic, pouring on some resin, then laying over another plastic layer and working the resin through the cloth on the outside of the plastic is a nice clean way to do tape work. Wet it out, trim it up to size, carry it over and peel one side, stick it down and work the back side which is covered in plastic. We'll see, I'll adapt as needed.

In regards to the panel work I'm using a fairly heavy cloth 8.6oz/yd so I'm not too worried about having issues working out wrinkles, but we'll see. That said since I'm doing multiple glass layers on each panel surface at once so there is no way I'd be able to just use the dry method and I want them all done together so they are a proper layup. I plan to lay out each layer ahead of time, then roll it up on a piece of PVC pipe and set it to the side. Then when I start laminating hopefully each layer will roll out fairly straight/flat. I'll pour/spread resin around and let things wet out. Then work it flat and get the air out w/o worrying about trying to get the excess resin out yet and move onto the next ply.

For the end I have decided to give peel ply a shot which should help smooth things out, remove excess resin, and address the frayed edge issue (Note that most of my panel edges will be overhung slightly and trimmed, the frayed edge issue is in my cloth seams, where the laminate wraps the top edge of the panels, and tape edges).

One other thing I'll likely try with and without is laying a layer of 4mil plastic sheeting over the top of the wet layup at the end and working out the excess resin through that. Has the potential to be cleaner work at the end and provide an air barrier once the excess resin is worked out and the plastic is suctioned down. We'll see how that goes. I'll have better options after the fact. :coffeedrink:

[Heifer Boy]

All methods are subject to change based on how I like using them. ;)

Got to agree there. These builds are certanly evolving things. I haven't finished mine and I'm already building the next one in my head a different way. :drool:


I've read that laying out your cloth on plastic, pouring on some resin, then laying over another plastic layer and working the resin through the cloth on the outside of the plastic is a nice clean way to do tape work. Wet it out, trim it up to size, carry it over and peel one side, stick it down and work the back side which is covered in plastic. We'll see, I'll adapt as needed.

I've never come across that method before and none of the boat building guys mentioned it. I've read about peel ply for sure which you mention and is kind of similar but this sounds good in one way and really messy in another. I would think you would have to wait until the resin gels a bit before cutting. Or do you use scissors coz it's not stuck to the camper yet? I'll be interested to see how you get on.


I'm doing multiple glass layers on each panel surface at once so there is no way I'd be able to just use the dry method and I want them all done together so they are a proper layup. I plan to lay out each layer ahead of time, then roll it up on a piece of PVC pipe and set it to the side. Then when I start laminating hopefully each layer will roll out fairly straight/flat. I'll pour/spread resin around and let things wet out. Then work it flat and get the air out w/o worrying about trying to get the excess resin out yet and move onto the next ply.

Rolling up your layers is a good idea and is used a lot. I had to be really organised and get everthing in place and in order before starting but coz it was so much smaller I just folder my cloth pieces and layed them in order. With all the testing and planning you have done already you sound like your REALLY organised so I'm sure you already have a game plan in your head ready to go :victory:


One other thing I'll likely try with and without is laying a layer of 4mil plastic sheeting over the top of the wet layup at the end and working out the excess resin through that. Has the potential to be cleaner work at the end and provide an air barrier once the excess resin is worked out and the plastic is suctioned down.

Isn't that the same job as using the peel ply?

Good luck with it all and looking forward to the end result.

HB

[pods8]

I've never come across that method before and none of the boat building guys mentioned it. I've read about peel ply for sure which you mention and is kind of similar but this sounds good in one way and really messy in another. I would think you would have to wait until the resin gels a bit before cutting. Or do you use scissors coz it's not stuck to the camper yet? I'll be interested to see how you get on.

I've done a fair bit of my reading based on the composite airplane guys verse boat folks. I made a couple test pieces with peel ply and liked it which is why I'm going that route. It's just a thin polyester type cloth that goes on as the last ply and wets out. Treat your layup like it's not there (ie trim up the same as you would have otherwise). Then once things are cured you can just peel the stuff off and you get a smooth but sandpaper feeling surface which is ready for the next bonding stage (whether that is tape work or final fairing) but also had held down frayed edges, etc. in the meantime.


With all the testing and planning you have done already you sound like your REALLY organised so I'm sure you already have a game plan in your head ready to go :victory:

My garage doesn't look it right now. :Wow1:



Isn't that the same job as using the peel ply?


The peel ply wets out. If I use some 4mil plastic sheeting on top it allows you to work out air/resin on the clean side since you're pushing it through the plastic. Additionally once you've pushed an air bubble out the plastic should be suctioned down, hopefully this would mean additional air won't reenter and that perhaps it will fight against wrinkles as you continue to work the rest of the piece.

I should have a better option of it all over the next few weeks. I just have a little bit of sanding to do before breaking things apart and starting to glass.

[pods8]

Well an unofficial update (don't have my notes in front of me for hours and no pictures): I finished sanding/fit up and broke the lower core back apart and cleaned up around the garage some. Then I started on my first piece, the floor. I debated whether to start on the floor first since its such a large layup but decided to do so since it's simple geometry, only 2 plys, and it'll have flooring over top of it so its not as visually critical compared to the exterior walls for instance. There is definitely going to be a learning curve here in the various aspects and it was a bit intimidating midway through but things turned out okay all things considered. It definitely wasn't as easy as I though to just layout the plys and roll up the whole deal to set to the side and roll out onto the piece when the time came. Lots of wrinkles to work out, etc. I'm thinking on the next shot to roll up each strip of cloth separately, it'll take a bit more staging organization but hopefully be a bit more manageable. Also I tried working the peel ply flat through a plastic sheet and that was a failed effort, luckily its peel ply and it gets peeled off! Next round I'll just work down the peel ply and probably forget the plastic. It's a learning curve.

Also I had planned on being to the glassing stage quite some time ago when temperatures were cooler so I've got a bit faster working epoxy because it still works at cooler temperatures and had decent working times at those temperatures. Now that things are warming up my working time is in the 1-2hr range which can be a bit challenging on a big layup. I end up needing to make sure I've not left excess epoxy on the layup as I move along because by the time I'm coming around with the next ply it's starting to tack up too much where as if I had more working time I could just leave the excess epoxy sit and let it soak into the next ply I lay down. It is still manageable at this point, if things get hotter I'll need to make sure to try and concentrate on doing things in the early morning on the weekend, etc. If it becomes a big enough issue, esp. when it comes to the roof which will be my largest layup I'll probably pick up some slower set time stuff (I ordered what anticipate to be 2/3-3/4 of my total epoxy need off the bat so its not that big of a deal to pick up some slower stuff where its needed since I'd need some more epoxy anyways).

[Rezarf <><]

Wow dude, thats gobs of work right there. I am definately looking forward to your build. Keep it up, it will pay off I am sure!

[pods8]

Wow dude, thats gobs of work right there. I am definately looking forward to your build. Keep it up, it will pay off I am sure!

Yeah lots of work. In the mid project trenches I must admit in the back of my mind part of me wonders if having learned to mig weld aluminum for this project would have been a decent route as well? Probably quicker to assemble a frame and skin it, and hard foam could also be glued to the skin in the frame gaps to help support it. However it probably would be heavier, things would have to be much more square verse radius edges, sealing up whatever skin at the joints is a potential leak route/not as clean looking, etc.

In the end assuming all goes well I'm going to be looking forward to the smooth/seamless exterior that should lower leak potential, shed water/snow better (hopefully also reducing algae growth in the nooks/crannies), and ideally look nicer. Plus should have some weight advantages. It's just going to likely take more time to get there.

Anyways onward I trudge documenting this home build. Right now the only "major" tools I'm using is a table saw and somewhat decent sized air compressor. You other potential builders can evaluate your own paths accordingly. :sombrero:

[pods8]

Finished off the other side off the floor over the weekend. Things went much smoother this time but it definitely is still time consuming. My floor is ~7'x7.5', I put two plys of cloth on the bottom at +/- 45deg and they wrapped over a radius edge to cover the sides as well. Took about 5.5hrs from start to finish for the 2 plys of glass and a layer of peel ply over top of that (all fabric was previously laid out and cut).

The wall sections are less area to cover but will have a bit more work in wrapping over edges in various spots. I'll be interested to see if I can pick up some speed on them. I've got the fabric cut/staged for two wall pieces but I didn't make any progress beyond that with the holiday weekend.

Here's my finished off floor, I've got plastic on it since I'll be using it as a work surface going forward most likely. The appearance is a bit hazy due to the peel ply, not that I don't have a bit of air here/there, just don't want anyone freaking out thinking that is what you're seeing.
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-07-03_10-51-34_849.jpg

A window into my snug garage workshop setting

Next two pieces set out so I can fit the cloth to them:
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-07-04_18-32-41_227.jpg

Three cloth plys of one of the pieces "staged". (Loosely rolled up the pieces by hand and then placed in some plastic to keep them clean and easier to handle in the meantime. When I'm actually laminating I'll grab the pieces and lay them out and position by hand and work out the wrinkles. I found it easier to just do it this way rather than trying to roll the multiple pieces onto a rod or such).
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-07-04_18-30-42_841-1.jpg

Cloth stand to spool the glass off, I tossed the dolley carts under there so I can push it around a bit:
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-07-04_18-30-25_577.jpg

Resin, hardener, stir sticks, squeegees, mirco ballons, dried residue (put a layer of plastic down on your bench ;)), etc. the tools of the trade. I should note for smaller quantities I usually use metering pumps with 8oz and 18oz plastic cups (ie party cups) and just pitch them after use. If I'm mixing up a larger quantities or needing to measure something out differently I'll use the traditional plastic mixing tubs.
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-07-04_18-32-03_904-1.jpg

[pods8]

Update 9 (150hrs in): Getting a into the flow of glassing these panels now. I think I've shaved some time off how long it takes per area but it is still time consuming over all. I'm past the halfway mark and on the down hill side of getting these lower core panels glassed up.

Floor: Both sides glassed.
Front wall: Both sides glassed.
Rear wall: Both sides glassed.
Driver side wall (including cabover rail): Exterior glassed, interior still needs to be glassed.
Cabover Floor: Exterior glassed, interior still needs to be glassed.
Cabover front rail: No progress yet
Passenger side wall front portion (including cabover rail): No progress yet
Passenger side wall rear portion: No progress yet

So the bigger panels / panels with openings in them (takes a little more work to cut and wrap the glass around window opening and such) are almost complete. The final three panels are the smallest and aside from wrapping glass over the door jambs should get ticked off the list fairly easily in comparison.

Shot of the driver side exterior I glassed this weekend (prior to trimming off the excess fabric after it cured a bit).
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-07-16_19-25-03_275.jpg

[Billhilly]

Coming along great Pods. Hang in there. Like you say, past half way now. So once you have these panels done it's assemble the lower core then start on the roof section? Anyway you'll see some real progress once you put these panels together for the final time!


Yeah lots of work. In the mid project trenches I must admit in the back of my mind part of me wonders if having learned to mig weld aluminum for this project would have been a decent route as well? Probably quicker to assemble a frame and skin it, and hard foam could also be glued to the skin in the frame gaps to help support it. However it probably would be heavier, things would have to be much more square verse radius edges, sealing up whatever skin at the joints is a potential leak route/not as clean looking, etc.

What do you mean specifically by 'skin it'? Commercial fiberglass sheet or? Glue your own composite panel??

[pods8]

Coming along great Pods. Hang in there. Like you say, past half way now. So once you have these panels done it's assemble the lower core then start on the roof section? Anyway you'll see some real progress once you put these panels together for the final time!

Yeah glue/tape these up and then start on the roof. I'll probably build the wood and foam right around the lower core so I know they're fit right (gonna be tight in the garage...). I think the second half should go quicker due to more familiarity and clearer thought on how to assemble various things.


What do you mean specifically by 'skin it'? Commercial fiberglass sheet or? Glue your own composite panel??

Well you could likely skin in either FRP or aluminum. Off hand I'd probably explore FRP with either a vehicle tape or sika type adhesive and see about doing hand laid glass to wrap the corners and then fair that all in. Ideally it would be a mostly seamless skin w/o the trim pieces commonly relied on. However as with this project I'd definitely do some experimental pieces first to make sure the various components worked and what combinations I liked.

I dunno, just an offhand thought to potentially shave quite a few hours?

[Billhilly]

Yeah glue/tape these up and then start on the roof. I'll probably build the wood and foam right around the lower core so I know they're fit right (gonna be tight in the garage...). I think the second half should go quicker due to more familiarity and clearer thought on how to assemble various things.
Are you going to use draw runners as guides or go with (something like) polyethylene in the corners? Did you ever finalise a lifting mechanism? I'm getting way ahead for you!



Well you could likely skin in either FRP or aluminum. Off hand I'd probably explore FRP with either a vehicle tape or sika type adhesive and see about doing hand laid glass to wrap the corners and then fair that all in. Ideally it would be a mostly seamless skin w/o the trim pieces commonly relied on. However as with this project I'd definitely do some experimental pieces first to make sure the various components worked and what combinations I liked.

I dunno, just an offhand thought to potentially shave quite a few hours?

I still wonder with how good Sikaflex glues are I couldn't make up a light exo skeleton (I've swung to alloy) and possibly make my own composite panels up.

[pods8]

Are you going to use draw runners as guides or go with (something like) polyethylene in the corners? Did you ever finalise a lifting mechanism? I'm getting way ahead for you!

Planning on drawer slides in the overlapping zone. I have provisions to go with either the actuators or hydraulics. I may give the hydraulic company another call to see if we can work something out and for a price I like. Otherwise I know the actuators are readily available and they are the current main plan. I've got some time still.


I still wonder with how good Sikaflex glues are I couldn't make up a light exo skeleton (I've swung to alloy) and possibly make my own composite panels up.

If you're not as concerned about the strength of the panel in terms of load carrying, which you may not be with an exo skeleton, you could look into just gluing commercially available FRP panels onto foam since I assume you're be intending to use square edged stuff as opposed to trying to radius corners, etc.

I pondered them a tad but due to the lower strength and some of the radius work I've decided to do I didn't pursue it further. If I were to build an aluminum frame (internal) I'd think about gluing commercial FRP panels to the frame then bedding foam in the frame gaps against the FRP with an adhesive slurry. Obviously testing would need to be done before going full bore but it's a thought that has crossed my mind as I've been working on things. Don't know where the weight would stack up in comparison in the overall design, probably wouldn't matter much on a larger truck but on a smaller one it could be an issue.

The biggest thing with doing the hand layups is they just take a while between wetting out glass and then dragging air, repeat on the next ply... In the end I'll probably be happier with what I'm doing but you're mind drifts while in the trenches. :)

[pods8]

Update 10 (185hrs) I finished off almost all the panel laminating, I've just got the exterior of the rear portion of the passenger all to do. However that doesn't really affect assembling the rest of the panels back together so I went ahead on that this weekend and will knock out that last panel lamination after work one day this week.

First off I got the floor all leveled out up on some concrete blocks, this will allow me enough access to the under edges to do the taping work. Then I reassembled all the panels with screws to make sure things were fitting up right (they did!) and then undid various joints to apply thickened epoxy and then screwed the joint back together. After wards I ran a thickened epoxy fillet along the inside of the joint. I finished off epoxying all the joints except for the rear wall and the rear portion of the passenger wall which I need to finish off still. From here I'll need to do a "tape" lamination on the inside of the joints and also on the outside (before doing the outside I'll do some more structural filling/sanding/fairing work, best to get it as good as possible at this stage to save hassle later).

Once this is all done I'll move onto building and fitting the roof cores around the lower camper to make sure it all fits. Also I can do parallel path work on portions of the interior and the lower door.

All the tape is on top of peel ply so I didn't bother to peel it all off since it will come off with the peel ply. I'll remove portions of the peel ply as I need to for the taping work and anything else that comes up. The rest stays on until I start the fairing work of the whole thing, makes it nice because I don't need to worry about getting stray epoxy on the surface (which is happening while doing the fillet work) of it since it gets peeled off.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-08-07_19-31-28_327.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-08-07_21-11-03_629.jpg

[washington taco]

Really coming along nicely!

[JamesDowning]

That looks like a ton of work, but very cool. I appreciate how methodical your process seems.

Really looking forward to seeing how this goes... subscribed!

[pods8]

Yep, lots of work. Its easy to underestimate the time required to actually construct things when you look at manufacturer's prices. However I will say I'm getting faster at all the various processes as I go so hopefully the upper portion comes along quicker.

Most of the time I find the playing around in the garage to be entertaining to me so as long as I'm on top of balancing family life and time line expectations it goes pretty well. I've had some heavy weeks in the garage that stressed one side of things and had some light weeks out there that made me get anxious about my time frame walking out farther. Still hanging in there and have a happy family. Should be interesting when the second boy shows up in late October, I'm hoping to have the cores all done (and maybe painted?) by then so I can just pick away at the interior build out... we'll see.

[JamesDowning]

Very true, once you finish a project like this, you inadvertently come to appreciate the prices that the manufacturers ask. As you said, time management is difficult skill to master while satisfying all other commitments. I experienced similar challenges on a smaller scale when I built a roof top tent from scratch. Good luck with it all!

[bee]

You have a really great project going on. On your chart you list really good prices for resin, fiberglass, and foamular.
I was wondering where you get your supplies?

What brand resin? and how many gallons of resin are you using in the build?

[pods8]

You have a really great project going on. On your chart you list really good prices for resin, fiberglass, and foamular.
I was wondering where you get your supplies?

What brand resin? and how many gallons of resin are you using in the build?

Foam: Local commercial building supply yard, not really relevant unless you're local to me. To find a supplier I sent a message to owens corning asking if anyone in my geographic region bought and/or stocked foamular 600. (I actually looked into 400, 600, and 1000 there wasn't too much price increase between 250 which is available at home depot to 600 but to jump to 1000 it was a substantial increase).

Glass: I ordered some 125yd rolls through thayercraft, I think stuff ran me about $3.5/yd once shipping was factored in. Another source to keep an eye on for BULK is discountcomposite but keep in mind you'll be getting a single roll of whatever yardage they have available that you select so factor in your ability to handle it in terms of weight if you are thinking of ordering one.

Resin: I'm using uscomposites 635 system with the 4:1 hardener. I think after shipping I paid about $47/gal (and in my case that is shipping from FL to WA). I'd have to go look at how much resin I currently have left in stock but I suspect I've probably used about 9gal so far which has gotten all the lower cores assembled, laminated (3plys exterior and for the most part 2plys interior), and glued together. I haven't yet "taped" across both sides of the joint yet.



Edit: Since I'm posting. I've done some camping so progress has slowed but the current status of things are I finished laminating that last lower wall core (passenger wall rear portion) and epoxied/filleted that into place as well. Then I sanded all the exterior joints to smooth everything out and also scuff sanded the fiberglass about 6" back from the joints on both the outside and inside (also scuffed up the epoxy fillet on the inside), this is to give the "tape" layers a good bonding surface. Cleaned up the garage a bit after that and I'm ready to start the "tape" plys. However I have another trip this weekend as well...

[Captm]

I may have missed this in the thread, but what is your estimated weight of the POD?
Keep up the great work, it is inspiring!:bowdown:

[pods8]

I may have missed this in the thread, but what is your estimated weight of the POD?
Keep up the great work, it is inspiring!:bowdown:

It will be what it will be but if you look back at thread 22 I give some estimated numbers based on sample pieces I made with different lamination schedules. In reality I'm using a blend of things. Punching up some rough numbers the foam/skins for the lower portion of the camper should be around 210lb, plus lets assume an 80lb allowance for the wood strips in the cores equaling a theoretical 290lb for that. (Don't reality have a way of actually weighing it currently, eventually I'll weight the finished camper).

Just spit balling forward: Based on how I'm thinking I'll build/dimension to upper portion I suppose somewhere around 200lb is a decent guess. The combined 490 doesn't factor in windows, interior build out, paint, etc. Maybe assume 130lb for windows/paint bringing the shell to 620 without an interior? I think the finished camper should come in under 1000lb dry (appliances, 160lb of battery, interior included but no water factored in). We'll see.

Sorta timely question, I was doing some side research at flooring materials. Just painting the floor is the lightest option but it's not very aesthetic or comfortable on the feet. Thin wood replica vinyl plank flooring would offer nice aesthetics and a long wearing floor but is hard to the feet and somewhat heavy. Real wood/bambo/etc. is heavier and over time could have moisture issues. Both of these could add 50lb to the floor area which seems a little excessive for aesthetics. Other options I was looking at that I just got some samples in on are foam and rubber type flooring samples which could offer some aesthetics if the right product is picked, be lighter that vinyl or wood, and offer some comfort under foot. Probably float or use a low strength adhesive for any flooring option so if I wanted I could change things out fairly easy down the line.

[pods8]

Those floor samples are below:

(Left to right)
Rubber tile: Heaviest but has some neat color options.
Thin rubber over foam: Limited color options, seems like it'd wear well, 3rd heaviest.
Wood colored foam: Decent appearance, probably a bit too soft though, lightest.
Wood toned sport foam: A bit more bland but not too bad, decently firm, weight is between regular foam and rubber covered foam.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-08-30_20-23-31_626.jpg

[Captm]

Sorry about that, I was busy looking at the photos and skipped over your very comprehensive work sheet. Have you looked at Amtico flooring. I have installed it on yachts and there are many builders who use it do to weight, easy install and excellent wear. We actually have it on the yacht I run, installed directly on the cored deck and is comfortable to stand on all day. It is available in hundreds of patterns, I am partial to the wood grain myself. If you do go this route be sure to use their adhesive. I've seen it installed with other adhesive and it has not worked out as well.

[pods8]

Sorry about that, I was busy looking at the photos and skipped over your very comprehensive work sheet. Have you looked at Amtico flooring. I have installed it on yachts and there are many builders who use it do to weight, easy install and excellent wear. We actually have it on the yacht I run, installed directly on the cored deck and is comfortable to stand on all day. It is available in hundreds of patterns, I am partial to the wood grain myself. If you do go this route be sure to use their adhesive. I've seen it installed with other adhesive and it has not worked out as well.

Not familiar with it, what is the weight on it? Most of the wood and/or vinyl products I've looked at seem like they'd add about 40-50lb to my floor where as a sport foam would be 10lb.

[Heifer Boy]

Hey pods... how's the build going?

HB

[pods8]

Hey pods... how's the build going?

HB

Slowly plugging away at the non-glamorous panel to panel seams. Probably 75% done with those, actually hoping to have them wrapped up after this weekend (crossed fingers). I had to do a little extra work around the door threshold area because I was getting a little flex in the floor there when I pulled down on the cabover. I laid down some unidirectional carbon reinforcements this week that should stiffen things up nicely. When I get the last of the panel joints down I'm going to load test the cantilever and see how it and the doorway react to see if any additional work is needed.

After that I can start all over with building the upper half. :Wow1: I picked up the LED lighting I'm planning to use and a small 12V hand held battery so I can mock up the roof and hold them up in places to determine where I want them for light dispersion. Similar placement will be determined for the vent(s).

All is taking longer and I'm not able to put as much time on it as expected but I'm still chipping away. :coffeedrink: My 2nd son is due in a few weeks so we'll see what happens for the next couple months, if he's a great baby I'll have downtime while I'm at home for a bit to chip away at some more, if he's not... :Wow1:

[Heifer Boy]

Ahh... life getting in the way again. This time it's a brand new life!!

Hope everything goes well in a few weeks with your new addition to the Expo world.

:av-7:

[southpier]

cork tiles?

[pods8]

Hope everything goes well in a few weeks with your new addition to the Expo world.


Thanks!


cork tiles?

That was my original thought but they're not intended for possibly wet areas. Far too likely in the winter and such that melting snow could take a toll on them. That is why I was looking at rubber, foam, synthetics.

[pods8]

Update (234hrs): Lower shell is all taped together. I did some carbon reinforcement work around the door frame but still getting a bit more flex than I want so I'll need to ponder how I want to handle that, whether its just more carbon or some other route (just tested it tonight so I haven't composed my thoughts).

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-10-07_18-20-07_440.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-10-07_18-20-16_912.jpg

Here's a shot with 320lb loaded at the front end of the cantilever. The tip of the cantilever dips down 1/4" which is fine with me however I'm displeased with the flexing I'm getting in the door gap. The door opening width at the top spreads about 5/16" with that load on it and may can door fit/seal issues.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2011-10-07_19-00-41_26.jpg

[Billhilly]

Looks good outside. Haven't got any bright ideas for the door gap spread at this stage. A 'night time bar' that tweaks it up while you slumber....

[JamesDowning]

The roof should add some stability right?

[bob91yj]

Old school strut/shock from the front of the overhang to the fender to help support the overhang?

[pods8]

The roof should add some stability right?

If I use the folding walls over the cabover to tie the roof to the bottom they could share some load. At the moment I'm looking over the numbers of how many additional plys of various materials across the door gap would be needed to reduce the deflection my a magnitude or two. Looks like a bit more carbon with a fiberglass cap could make fairly easy reinforcement (I had just done some localized 5.5" wide strips before, probably would add a couple 24" wide ones now).


Old school strut/shock from the front of the overhang to the fender to help support the overhang?

I'd like to get the structures to perform acceptable and independently so nothing is relying on a specific installation.

[EuroJoe]

How about a steel plate 1/4" thick surrounding the lower door in a U shape? Some flanging to keep it square or let the wall hold it. Or thinner steel but a "fatter" U

[SChandler]

Is the floor bowing up under the door when you do the load testing of the cabover, or is the top of the door frame opening up? If the floor is bowing up, the solution could be as simple as putting a mounting bolt through the floor into your (future) flatbed, along with some reinforcing to prevent the bolt head from tearing through the floor. If you haven't checked this yet, maybe you could try adding some weight to the floor at the doorway and reload the cabover and see if the door opening distortion is reduced any.

[pods8]

Yes it is the floor bowing and I confirmed it by adding a stack of weight in the doorway (while there was a load on the cantilever) and it closed the gap back up and if I go ahead and stand there too, adding another 200lb, it shrinks the gap another 1/8" the wrong way. Bolting it to the flatbed is a solution but I'm going to work on fixing it the right way first by adding some additional plys to the schedule to stiffen the floor. Probably will use some more UNI carbon and then cap it with some fiberglass to tie it in and also protect it when I'm sanding.

[SChandler]

Sounds like you've got a plan for reducing the flex. It will be interesting to see how much the additional plys reduce the flexing.

[eugene]

If its the floor flexing, why not reinforce with a piece of steel angle?
How far does your cab over stick out?

[pods8]

It will be interesting to see how much the additional plys reduce the flexing.

It all will depend on how much extra is added. What will be really interesting is seeing how well the theoretical additions play out in reality. IE if I double or triple the stiffness from where I'm at now, using theoretical numbers of the materials on both will it translate into the deflection being cut in half/third like it should?...


If its the floor flexing, why not reinforce with a piece of steel angle?
How far does your cab over stick out?

Steel would require mechanical fastening only (otherwise epoxy doesn't bond well long term with it, esp. due to thermal/mechanical cycling) and I'm unsure if that would pick up the stiffness needed in these small deflections. I'll try fixing the right way before bolting on fixes. Would have been easier to incorporate stiffening means during the construction of the floor but hindsight is 20/20.

My cabover is sized for a queen sized bed so it's ~60" cantilever.

[bee]

POD do you know the effects of having different material on either side of the sandwich core. An example would be. If I remember correctly you used 1/8" plywood and 2 layers of fiberglass on both sides of your floor. How does that compare to using 1/4" plywood with 2 layers of fiberglass on one side, and only 2layers of fiberglass on the other side? Same amount of material, but not evenly distributed.

BTW What kind of flat bed are you mounting this on? Are there going to be provisions for isolating frame flex?

Also for anyone who has been planning on doing some fiberglass work. Advanced Composite Traders did have great pricing, but after 4 phone calls, a few emails and 1.5 months I am giving up on ever receiving any fiberglass. At least he never charged my credit card. Luckily I am not in a big rush to begin my build. Looks like Thayercraft will get my business now.

[pods8]

I'm fairly tired these days (1month old in the mix now) so pardon any hacked up thoughts:

You can look at the strength of the new composite panel if you really wanted to get into it, the neutral axis would shift towards the wood side and it wouldn't be a symetrical profile for calc purposes. There would be less strength/stiffness on the glass side with the wood removal but you'd be able to take some credit for the increased distance from the nuetral axis (which means you can do more with less). That is what would actually happen in the panel if you had a load case you wanted to look at it against.

I just did the 1/8" on both sides mainly because both sides of the floor would tend to see more abuse than the rest of the structure.

If I buy a commercial flatbed I'd probably get a UTE, not sure if I'll build one though. Haven't composed all my thoughts on that front yet.

What was the issue with ATC, too hard to coordinate getting a big/heavy roll shipped to your receiving location? I never used them personally yet, they were just a source I had eyed up.

[pods8]

Camper update: No progress. :p Well a TINY bit, while family was visiting I took advantage of the extra set of hands to rip up a bunch of plywood strips to start putting together the upper camper core.

Between sneaking out for a little hunting and these two I've been fairly tied up/tired. Hope to start ramping back into some progress as the year wraps up and the new one starts sleeping longer:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/294028_10150512711427598_782567597_11369185_390327 982_n.jpg

[Jeep]

Very cool.

[bee]

Kid pictures just make you want to smile.

Times like this I wish I took a few more material and engineering classes. This is beyond my level. If I remember right, the reason the question on shifting the ply popped into my head is because I actually have a source of random sized scrap premium birch plywood. I just picked up a load and it is mostly 3/8" thick. I am pretty sure I have more then enough to make all the interior cabinets and was wondering if it would make sense to use one sheet of it for the floor. Basically your design but wood only on one side. I wasn't sure how that would affect things. Actually after your answer I still don't know how that would affect things lol.

I figured I would learn how to fiberglass and have started a build based primarily off of yours and the guy who did the carbon fiber version (I forget his name). Mine will be a 7x7x10 box with a small bump out over the cab of a dodge diesel pickup. I plan on using it year round in pretty severe weather and went with 3” thick walls. I don’t remember seeing anyone going that thick, but I guess I will find out if its overkill.

To anyone thinking of doing a similar build, I bought my foamular 600 from menards if you have one near you, and 15 gallons of resin from aeromarine. At the time I bought the resin it was 1 dollar more per gallon then uscomposites, but it is supposedly non blushing which I figured might be worth it. In all the searching I only heard good things about both uscomposite and aeromarine.

I was going to get 9.6 ounce style 1800 boat cloth from ACT. I called before placing the order to ask about shipping. He said there would be no problem with shipping so I placed the order. A week and a half later I was wondering where the fabric was. I called a few times and just got the answering machine. A few days later when I finally got through he stated that he couldn't find it but would ship style 7500 which is basically the same thing, only a slightly more expensive yarn for the same price. A few days later I contacted him for the tracking info and he said he would get it to me and it had already shipped. I never heard from him again. After another week or so I checked my credit card statement. He never charged me. So I figured it was time to move on.

[pods8]

Keep in mind much of the reason I did 1/8" ply on the floor was more for impact/walking strength as opposed to specifically for panel strength (could get better weight/strength out of glass alone). I wanted that on both the exterior and interior of the floor. Are you comfortable without it on one side or the other? Also if you're doing that thick of plywood I would consider a reduction in the amount of fiberglass going over top. If you do a good scarf joint on the plywood or some other means of stitching it together well then I'd probably just do a single fiberglass layer over the ply to seal it up nicely and make sure its all tied together. All that said 1/8" ply only runs ~$10-12 a sheet by me. Just depends on what you want in terms of weight from the end product, with a dodge diesel you might not care as much. Edit: What style door are you doing, I'm running into the fact I need to stiffen up my floor if I keep the style of door I've currently got, if I box it out and just do a short door the floor will be fine as is though.

Are you doing a pop-up or fixed wall camper? Surprising Menards had foamular 600 (the box stores around me only carry 250), cool that it worked out. I could only get 2" thick sheets, are you planning to plane down sheets for the 3" walls or did you find 3"? In general the 2" walls should be around R10 which is pretty damn good for the truck camper market, I think windows and vents will be the main areas to focus on for cold weather.

[bee]

Thanks for going into more detail about the floor construction.
I am going to do a fixed wall camper so I don't expect to have the same issues with door flex that you ran into. I might be comfortable with having wood on just the outside of the floor if I am finishing the interior with a laminate wood floor product. Except for the size of the box everything including interior layout is still up in the air. In fact the bump out over the cab might just be storage and not for sleeping. It will only bump out a total of 3ft (just a reg cab) and will be tapered for some aerodynamics.

I actually found the foamular on menards website as a special order. I think they might have taken it off the site, but it is still available. I had to buy in increments of 32 for a 2x8 sheet 3" thick. My goal for this camper is 300 day a year use in all seasons including the rocky mountains of Canada. ( how often I actually use it is also up in the air, but this is my goal.) I bought the truck just for the Cummins diesel engine figuring I would use hydronic heat for those extended winters. I would still have propane for cooking and a backup catalytic heater. Though honestly with the cost of diesel at 4.19 a gal and gasoline only at 3.40 local I probably should have thought out the diesel a little more thoroughly. Especially now that I found out about vented cat heaters.
Even with a 3/4 ton truck weight is still a big concern once you factor extended stay into the equation. To me extended stay means extra water, battery power, and gear which gets heavy fast.

You mention windows and vents being a big issue and I agree. It just seems painful to buy RV double pane windows for $500 each for a tiny little window. I am considering making my own. Making a waterproof hinged window frame might be difficult, but I cant imagine sticking 2 pieces of glass together to be very hard. Of course I have never done anything like this before, my background is professional mechanic which is diagnostic repair work, not fabrication. I have never even installed a house window let alone made one. Luckily I have a friend who can do some welding and most importantly has a heated garage where the build will take place.

[pods8]

I'm going with the atwood 8012 which only draws 1.8amps, hopefully with the increased insulation in this build (verse a soft side camper) the run cycles will be spaced out more than in my FWC. That said 1.8amps isn't too much if you've got the batteries to handle it. (For your long term winter stuff you'd probably want a small generator to run every couple days to recharge though).

FYI dual windows are expensive but they're not quite that much. I had motion windows price me out a 15"x30" horizontal slider and they ran $325 series 1800 dual pane. I'm going to start out with the cheapish single pane kinro's I got and look at using at insulating curtains. I can always swap windows later if I feel the extra expense is warranted.

[pods8]

New year, finally some new progress. Newest addition is 3mo old now and things are starting to get a bit more ironed out so I can start chipping away at this again. Got a few hours in on roughing in the roof structure. The center flat area is raised 2" from the rest to give the roof a bit of slope on the sides to hopefully sluff water off (I may try to put a slight arc in the top flat part too). The wide strips of wood are cedar (lighter and rot resistant, even though I'll have sealant on anything drilled into it) and are for solid blocking to bolt through for my 100watt solar panel (or whatever). I'll probably put it on the rear portion that is slightly angled down but I gave myself flexibility:

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-01-16_14-26-59_125.jpg

Also I've traded out my truck platform, here's the new rig (better brakes, payload, and larger fuel tank):
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/DSC_1404.jpg

[pods8]

Anyone have any thoughts about whether to bother with a second vent and if so the placement? Here's a sketch of what is currently going on. As mentioned above the center square is slightly raised and the sides slope down slightly. The red X is the current vent I've framed in and is in the vicinity of the stove which is where I intended. The blue X is probably where the solar panel will go. Pondering if I should bother with a second vent over the bed or not, since the one over the stove is close to the bed. If there was one over the bed the second question becomes placement, I was quickly stewing on it with the wife and we though maybe one centered on the bed (both front/back and side/side) might be a decent spot since it would direct airflow down at center mass rather than heads/feet. Again though not sure if its really needed compared to use using a 12V portable fan to direct airflow if needed. I do not have the over bed vent on my FWC and can't say I've ever really missed it, however the PNW isn't that hot and some of the south west folks say they really like the second vent, don't want to hamper travels in hotter areas down the line...

Any sage traveler advice as I rough this together?

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/vents.jpg

[gbail]

For what it's worth.....
I had a second vent in my overhead cab camper that was centered in the middle of the overhead cab roof section. On starry nights, it was really nice to be able to look up and out of that vent and see the night skys. It also let me hear better when lying in bed.......hearing the noises of things that went bump in the night around my camp!

[turbothrush]

82249Glad to see your back at it.
I am also doing a fiberglass foam camper but it is a slide-in hardside. Am planning to do most of fiberglassing on the horizontal then joining the large pieces together. My goal is for a self contained camper weighing 1000 lbs dry.
By the way I used your idea of the 1/8 " plywood on the bottom. The white photoshop pic is the look I am going for. Keep up the great work !

[pods8]

Glad to be back at it!

Cool build. Glassing all the pieces back together can be time consuming but in comparison to trying to glass vertical and upside down panels I think it's effort well invested.

[chnlisle]

Will this be ready for you to go to San Ignacio Lagoon with us the end of March?

[pods8]

Will this be ready for you to go to San Ignacio Lagoon with us the end of March?

Haha, I wish! As in I wish I was done by then and also that taking a trip down there with you all would actually be feasible.

[pods8]

Finished roughing out the top. Need to glue all the pieces together (only the top flat part and part of the rear are glued so far) and fill in the gaps. It'll get faired out well before glassing. I built the wood frame for a second vent and it's sitting in the possible position, after things are glued together I'll settle on a place and cut out a hole for that and glue it in. I'll probably start on the sides after that and circle back the interior blocking/conduit I'll need to install. Weather has been quite cold and family is sick so still moving slow but at least its something which is good for my morale!

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-01-23_17-39-11_951.jpg

[IdaSHO]

Lookin' good dude :ylsmoke:

[Billhilly]

Nice to see you progress. Like you say, good for morale.

[westyss]

Anyone have any thoughts about whether to bother with a second vent and if so the placement? Here's a sketch of what is currently going on. As mentioned above the center square is slightly raised and the sides slope down slightly. The red X is the current vent I've framed in and is in the vicinity of the stove which is where I intended. The blue X is probably where the solar panel will go. Pondering if I should bother with a second vent over the bed or not, since the one over the stove is close to the bed. If there was one over the bed the second question becomes placement, I was quickly stewing on it with the wife and we though maybe one centered on the bed (both front/back and side/side) might be a decent spot since it would direct airflow down at center mass rather than heads/feet. Again though not sure if its really needed compared to use using a 12V portable fan to direct airflow if needed. I do not have the over bed vent on my FWC and can't say I've ever really missed it, however the PNW isn't that hot and some of the south west folks say they really like the second vent, don't want to hamper travels in hotter areas down the line...

Any sage traveler advice as I rough this together?

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/vents.jpg

Wow! lots of work being done here! Just thought I would comment on the vent issue, typically air will want to flow "out" of the camper through the roof vent, not in, are you installing a fantastic fan? if so one should do the trick for air flow, just make sure a source of make up air is present ie, window. A fantastic fan does work very well and I recommend one, it can change the air in a camper your size in minutes.
I have 3" wall on my camper, but only at the base so that I can accommadate a hard side pop up, but as far as R value goes, in reality, 2" would be ample, dont forget that air will need to be exchanged constantly to avoid dying and condensation, so you never really want it totally sealed up, going to double pane windows will be in my opinion absolutely necassary to avoid massive amounts of condensation, might be nice outside but raining inside. A human body emites a huge amount of water vapour into the air that needs to get vented outside, so there is no chance of sealing up your camper so much that small amounts of BTU will keep it warm, once the bad air is vented and replaced with fresh (cold) air it will need reheating.

[pods8]

Wow! lots of work being done here! Just thought I would comment on the vent issue, typically air will want to flow "out" of the camper through the roof vent, not in, are you installing a fantastic fan? if so one should do the trick for air flow, just make sure a source of make up air is present ie, window. A fantastic fan does work very well and I recommend one, it can change the air in a camper your size in minutes.
I have 3" wall on my camper, but only at the base so that I can accommadate a hard side pop up, but as far as R value goes, in reality, 2" would be ample, dont forget that air will need to be exchanged constantly to avoid dying and condensation, so you never really want it totally sealed up, going to double pane windows will be in my opinion absolutely necassary to avoid massive amounts of condensation, might be nice outside but raining inside. A human body emites a huge amount of water vapour into the air that needs to get vented outside, so there is no chance of sealing up your camper so much that small amounts of BTU will keep it warm, once the bad air is vented and replaced with fresh (cold) air it will need reheating.

The vent over the stove will definately be a powered unit. The second vent might just be a vent for now but I'll pull wiring so it isn't hard to swap in the guts of a powered unit if desired.

Double pane windows were substantially more expensive than the basic single panes I picked up. They're all clamp in windows these days so I'll run these for now and consider an upgrade later if I need to. I'll have an Atwood 8012 installed in here (sitting in a box on the shelf currently) which will throw plenty of BTUs for this size space and at 1.8amps while running it won't be too harsh on the battery bank.

[westyss]

You are not too far away from these guys

http://www.sunviewindustries.ca/

they had better prices compared to Motion windows so it might be worthwhile getting a quote.

As for your heater, I dont think its all that necassary for big BTU's, in my experience, a lower BTU on for a bit longer will give more even heat. When I originally got the box part completed on my rig I tried using a Mr heater 18,000BTU cat heater as a temporary set up, that was not good, I couldnt leave it on for any length of time or I had the sauna affect, I have a small 3,000BTU tent cat heater that works better now, also temporary, with a window open I have more even heat, I am leaning towards a wave 3 cat heater, no power use, I also will have an Hydronic heating system if things get too cold, but then I'll have power draw from that. With the good insulating properties of your rig and the size of it you will probably only need something around 3-6,000 BTU. Keep up the good work!

[pods8]

You are not too far away from these guys

http://www.sunviewindustries.ca/

they had better prices compared to Motion windows so it might be worthwhile getting a quote.

As for your heater, I dont think its all that necassary for big BTU's, in my experience, a lower BTU on for a bit longer will give more even heat. When I originally got the box part completed on my rig I tried using a Mr heater 18,000BTU cat heater as a temporary set up, that was not good, I couldnt leave it on for any length of time or I had the sauna affect, I have a small 3,000BTU tent cat heater that works better now, also temporary, with a window open I have more even heat, I am leaning towards a wave 3 cat heater, no power use, I also will have an Hydronic heating system if things get too cold, but then I'll have power draw from that. With the good insulating properties of your rig and the size of it you will probably only need something around 3-6,000 BTU. Keep up the good work!

I got a quote from them a while back after checking with you on where you got yours. Don't know if the exchange rate wasn't favorable then or what but they were right up there with motion. Either way I already have my single panes and have for quite a while, I'll roll with them for now but will be paying attention. If the performance in the winter isn't as desired it's not too hard to change them out, verse getting this build done! :p I agree on the low/slow BTUs being nice, the atwood is 12k which if fairly large for this size space but about the smallest you're going to get of that nature. I'll see how much cycling and temp swings I get, I've always had in the back of my head to keep a propane line tap available for adding a Wave 3 or 6 if deemed necessary/desirable for my camping needs.

On the road at the moment but looking forward to getting back and chipping away a bit more at it. Been tossing dimensions around in my head for the sides, folding sides, etc.

[pods8]

Little bit more progress. I built a bit of a wood frame with tabs on it to support and position the roof pieces in proper alignment to glue them up and keep things from sagging while things are not glassed yet. I glued together all the roof pieces now and used spray foam to fill out the larger gaps (hard to try and exactly fit this geometry on the fly in the garage, so I did a bunch of close enough fitment figuring I'd shape/fill as needed). The extra foam on the top has been rough trimmed now. It'll obviously get sanded/faired/filled in as a whole before moving onto glass work. Ready to start roughing out the sides now.

That's is as far as I got because a back spasm hit me saturday morning and made me a useless lump on the couch most of the weekend. :(

Here you can see a little bit of that wood frame for positioning:
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-02-05_13-27-03_744.jpg

Here's the roughly completed roof with extra vent in place:
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-02-11_20-23-29_932.jpg

[pods8]

As I was pondering out final window placements for the sides of the upper half I noticed an issue. I put the rear window in the lower half down in a position that I'd have sight line from my rear view mirror and these dimensions are based off where I can see out of my current FWC rear window and accounting for the raised bottom of the camper on the flatbed. I mostly use my side mirrors but even having a small sight window directly to the rear of the camper is helpful to know if someone is hanging out right in your blindspot, etc. Anyways I was planning on a 24" lift height and realized this wasn't going to pan out dimensionally how I would like because if I build the upper half in a manner to have the window down low enough to match the bottom of this window then when the top is raised 5" of the window is still below the top of the bottom half which doesn't agree with me at all (the wall is about 4.5" tall above the window so coping it out doesn't solve the issue with a 24" lift either) I could abandon this sight line desire all together I suppose but then I'd rather have that rear picture window higher up.

Where I'm currently leaning though is to go with 30" actuators instead and put external limit stops in place to stop the stroke at 27" instead. With a 27" lift only 2" of the window is below the top of the current rear wall and I could realistically rework that part of the rear camper wall to drop it down in that area, in turn I'd lower part of the upper half rear wall to match with a ~2" overlap (that's how much I was thinking to overlap the halves). If I did this with the 30" actuators then if I ever needed to lift the halves past each other to work on seals or such I'd just need to move the external limit stop and could lift the top ~1" clear of the bottom. Leaving that flexibility is one reason in my head to not just lower the bottom edge of the upper half ~2" all around, also if I lowered it all around it would cover the propane hatch slightly and mean I'd need to lift the top a tad to access it which I wasn't planning on (my water fill hatch will be under the lowered upper half though).

Not sure if that thought process/description is making sense or not. Pictorially (on an old picture) it would mean I'd cut out the red line area and redo the top edge fiberglass. The green lines show were the bottom lip of the top half and window would be in the lowered position and the yellow lines show it in the raised position.
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/Modification.jpg

Feel free to comment, I haven't fully made up my mind on this yet.

[eugene]

Why not just cut out and put a small window below the other one. You could just make a cover that slides or hinges over it when not driving.

[Keithh28]

No offense, but it seems like you're considering doing a ton of extra work to accomplish something that could be achieved simply by adding a back-up camera. They're relatively cheap, can be integrated with your rear-view mirror if you like, and will afford you a much better view to the rear of the vehicle than a direct view through your rear window.

Keith

[pods8]

No offense, but it seems like you're considering doing a ton of extra work to accomplish something that could be achieved simply by adding a back-up camera. They're relatively cheap, can be integrated with your rear-view mirror if you like, and will afford you a much better view to the rear of the vehicle than a direct view through your rear window.

Keith

A camera hadn't even crossed my mind, gonna give that one some serious consideration. Thanks, that's why I'm throwing these out there for input. :)

The lower shell window will be down a little lower than desired and there will be a larger band of solid wall between the two windows right in the ideal viewing zone, I need to sit down and think this one out.

[Mrknowitall]

I've been following your build for a little while now (great work so far, btw) and I'm really warming up to the idea myself. I'm thinking slightly more compact and a different layout, but all the same challenges. I'm favoring a layout like the Geocamper.
One thing I haven't anwered for myself: how do you seal the roof to the body in its up and down positions?

[pods8]

One thing I haven't anwered for myself: how do you seal the roof to the body in its up and down positions?

Multiple ways and areas to address it. The top of the inside wall and bottom of the roof lips could both have a lip seal of sorts (like a brush seal, foam lip, rubber lip). I haven't scoured too hard for a brush seal yet. The foam side seals for a garage door, for the sides of the door not the bottom is the ones I was eyeing up, could have potential (you can see these at the hardware store). Alaskan campers uses pirelli rubber strips. I'm not really worried about finding a lip seal, lots of stuff, I'll spend more time stewing on how to make it aesthetically the way I want on the interior whether that's a metal/wood/composite trim piece over it or what.

Also you can put a bulb type gasket between the two walls. I've got a 1/2" gap between them to fit the slides in there and they make rubber gaskets of various stiffness that would work. Just need to figure out which one I like best. Or use a piece of UHMW or something if you don't want a softer rubber.

So at the moment I'm thinking a lip seal on the interior and bulb seal between the roof and lower camper near the bottom edge of the roof as my baseline.

[pods8]

Mocked up all the upper half walls. Everything is just taped/clamped together for the most part right now so I can shuffle around the window placements that I'm currently stewing on. I put some hooks in the roof and my garage ceiling to use ratchet straps to lift the roof up to the extended height to get the right sense of space. As you might have noticed at the moment I'm pretty sure I'm going to just shift the design to a short door in the lower half which should simplify some things. It'll address the flex in the floor, make working out the door design easier, and in terms of use means you don't have to open one door then the other and vice versa for closing.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-03-03_16-07-26_468.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-03-03_16-08-25_843.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-03-03_16-08-42_788.jpg

[Ponyracer]

Looking good man! When you finsh this one you can start on mine lol.

[eugene]

I hadn't noticed until now, your roof insulation sits on top of the roof frame and not inside it?
It looks like that cross board near the back in the last picture is sagging in the middle. Why not turn it on its side so its standing up then cut the roof taper in each side so you have some more strength in the center.

[pods8]

There is no "frame" in the camper, that's just a temporary structure to center and support the foam roof while it's being built since it's really not self supportive lying out flat like it does on the roof without the structural skins applied. Yes the 2x4's going across will sag in bit in that fashion but it was easier to assemble that way and not really critical if it dips slightly, just needs to make sure the center doesn't sag really far down and/or the sides to get pushed out wider.

[Mrknowitall]

Very nice- must feel good to get it all mocked together and be able to really see what you've been doing. Do you have enough room in there to make the door open to the inside? That would solve any interferance problems while you're top-down.

[pods8]

Very nice- must feel good to get it all mocked together and be able to really see what you've been doing. Do you have enough room in there to make the door open to the inside? That would solve any interferance problems while you're top-down.

Very nice but teasing as well since there is a bunch of fiberglass work to do before it's really a roof. :p

It had crossed my mind but standing space is a premium in these sized rigs and I think the swing/open door in nice weather would get tiresome. Plus in foul weather the door opening to the inside would likely shed off more rain/snow onto the floor than what would come in when opening outward in weather. It's not entirely off the table but I'm generally going along assuming my final design will swing out.

For top down access to the camper I was thinking of splitting the main door and have a short door that would open up below the overlap, I'd latch this short door into the upper door though so when that one opened they both did so in normal function I'd still just be working a single door verse the two overlapping doors if I had one in the roof half of the camper. I could fit a door that is about 22" tall I think, it's not huge but it's big enough to shove gear, a cooler, etc. in/out and allows a person to slip into there if they didn't want to put the top up or if there was some sort of malfunction with the lift system. Definitely not ideal in terms of sizing but it would be better than no access (or trying to come through the cab through window :p).

[IdaSHO]

Yes, from a sealing standpoint, you do NOT want an in-swinging door.

Just think if it managed to open on the highway... in foul weather... :snorkel:



Looking great BTW. Im envious that you are so far along on your construction, when Im still int he planning stages. :ylsmoke:

[Boonie Buster]

Looking Good! I hope it's painted the same color as the foam... :shakin:

[pods8]

Looking great BTW. Im envious that you are so far along on your construction, when Im still int he planning stages. :ylsmoke:

Oh once you get started I'm sure you'll pass me at the rate I'm going. :p Should have started this project a couple years ago prior to the first kid, I used to knock out quite a few hours on projects each week at ease...


Looking Good! I hope it's painted the same color as the foam... :shakin:

The breast cancer supporters might sue me for trademark infringement. :p Probably going to be a light grey/silver color I think.

[eaglebear]

A great project. Just an idea for you. It has given me lots of ideas. Look at the old Hi-low trailer sites for top sealing ideas and doors. Their doors are two piece and still available at a fairly reasonable prices the same with their seals if they would work.

[shachagra]

Very nice! I haven't had time to study in detail, but the construction method looks great. Do you have to put 2" supports in the upper section? I think I could have done without them on the build of Shachagra, and it seems even more appropriate on your build. The epoxy will bond to the foam well (I think!!)
Nice project. In 16 years you can have the 10 month old out there sanding for you, makes it so much easier!

[pods8]

Very nice! I haven't had time to study in detail, but the construction method looks great. Do you have to put 2" supports in the upper section? I think I could have done without them on the build of Shachagra, and it seems even more appropriate on your build. The epoxy will bond to the foam well (I think!!)
Nice project. In 16 years you can have the 10 month old out there sanding for you, makes it so much easier!

I've got some wood in there because it also helps me form the shape and also stiffens the foam during the construction phase prior to getting glassed. Time flys the 10mo old is now 22mo old... :p

[MrBeast]

Man Pods, this is a neat build, I wish I had found it sooner.

Id say with your flexing issue on the front your best bet is going to be to do a carbon fiber skin on that whole corner, it looks to me as though it is the floor that is probably deflecting the most. you may even think about building up that front corner slightly on the bottom to pre-load it so as that when it deflects it will deflect less.

I think the bigger lesson is probably that the door would be better suited in the back, having it where it is does seem to create structural concerns.

Another thing you may consider is when you build the flat bed it will sit on build a headache rack onto it that has rubber bumpers that will butt solid up against the front of your camper thus giving the front more support.

Either way I will be watching to see how it turns out. I have been thinking about building something like this for a while to go on my M105A3

[pods8]

Yeah the flexing is in the floor (that would be of any concern anyways), if I wanted to keep a fullsize door and was doing it again I'd need to stiffen the floor via carbon or more glass. However I've decided to simplify the design to having a door in the lower portion only so life in the camper isn't opening/closing 2 door halves all the time, etc. Which means I'll be adding structure across the top of the current door opening which should eradicate the flexing issue.

Yes a side door can create some more structural considerations but I think its well worth dealing with them for the improved floor plan. :coffeedrink:

[MrBeast]

Yeah the flexing is in the floor (that would be of any concern anyways), if I wanted to keep a fullsize door and was doing it again I'd need to stiffen the floor via carbon or more glass. However I've decided to simplify the design to having a door in the lower portion only so life in the camper isn't opening/closing 2 door halves all the time, etc. Which means I'll be adding structure across the top of the current door opening which should eradicate the flexing issue.

Yes a side door can create some more structural considerations but I think its well worth dealing with them for the improved floor plan. :coffeedrink:

I really do think that is your best option right there.

As well you and the misses will enjoy having the curb side door, especially with the kiddos, as they get old enough to walk you will feel much safer getting them in and out of there any time you are stopped in an urban area and are using the camper like on a lunch break or when going to the store.

[MrBeast]

Any Updates? I have been thinking about this build a lot since I read it.

[pods8]

Any Updates? I have been thinking about this build a lot since I read it.

Not a ton, had family visiting, ill kids, and too much travel for work. But some progress is better than none: The wall panels were pulled down, glued together (they were just tapped together before to make sure I like the dims), and I've rehung them so I can fair out the transitions into each other. Also need to mark off hard point blocking required for an exterior porch light and some interior stuff, will probably mock up the folding walls in the cabover too. Then I'll pull them down, add the last blocking I need, and fair out the surfaces prior to fiberglassing. At that point they'll be not much visually satisfying progress for a while as each panel gets glassed up but it's all part of the evolution. This addresses the walls and generally the exterior of the roof. On the roof interior I need to figure out light placements and some other things then embed conduit runs into the foam before fiberglassing the interior surface. I'm thinking I may glass the outside before doing this so the piece is held together better during all that work.

Oh I'm going to add some more foam onto the front and shape/round that off so. Probably will help with aero some but it's aesthetics more than anything.

[MrBeast]

Since I have seen this I have been thinking about building one for my 72 K30 Chevy Cummins. If I do though I probably will do a fixed top.

If you don't mind my asking, how much are you into this thing so far?

[pods8]

Someone on WTW asked me on the cost of the shell so far and here is a copy/paste:
I've got numbers at home but generally off the top of my head I think I've got ~$650 of foam picked up locally, lets say $200 in wood (a guess), $1000 in fiberglass cloth shipped. I originally purchased 12.5gal of resin which cost $600 shipped, I'm down to about 1gal left of that now (the upper wall foam structures are glued together now as well) so I'll need to order in some more (it'll probably take about 20gal total if I had to guess).

The above foam/fiberglass cloth is enough to finish out the project, more resin is need as mentioned to finish the shell structure. Stuff like paint, actuators, hinges, water tank, stove, sink, windows, interior fabric, furnace, fridge lights, fans, wiring, etc. will all keep building that total... however much of that depends on what type of products an individual picks out.

[pods8]

Some pictures to add. I had pulled down the taped up side panels and actually glued them together, put them back together one last time to sand where they meet each other flush, I'll sand the rest of the rough glued panel on the floor since its easier and round off the various corners/edges to different degrees depending on where they are. Better to do it on the cores now so the glassed panels fit better later. I also mocked up the two side flip up cabover panels and marked where the top of them would meet the upper shell when flipped up because I need to make a recessed pocket to install part of the retaining latch that will hold them up, the recessed pocket is so the latch doesn't interfere when the upper shell drops down to overlap the lower shell.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-04-08_15-09-14_463.jpg

Also I added on some more material to the front panel and rounded it out for aesthetics of the nose. Rough shape:
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-04-01_16-50-34_696.jpg

Not completely done rounding it out but I'll finish the rest off the camper so I'm not trying to round out the bottom of it from below:
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-04-08_15-31-42_594.jpg

[Ponyracer]

Here's a thought, how about forming some light holes into the leading edge? Some 9" lightforce or a light bar would be SWEET in there! Also, when you start glassing can you take a few pics of the steps for us, um, fiberglass challenged folks like me? I'm really interested in doing something similar someday!

Great job by the way!

[pods8]

Here's a thought, how about forming some light holes into the leading edge? Some 9" lightforce or a light bar would be SWEET in there! Also, when you start glassing can you take a few pics of the steps for us, um, fiberglass challenged folks like me? I'm really interested in doing something similar someday!

Great job by the way!

I don't personally have any interest in putting lights on the front of a removable camper so I didn't want to mess with the extra hassles. You'd need to make aesthetically pleasing holes in your structure, have to then deal with working fiberglass into/around these to encapsulate the foam all around (verse just a flattish panel like I have), deal with the body work both on the core and finished fiberglass so they look decent when painted. Also since I'm not using headliner in my camper I have to bury all my wiring runs in conduit embedded in the roof, so I'd need to do extra work there. Finally I wouldn't want high wattage lights touching my camper batteries so I'd want wiring going back to the trucks electrical system dedicated just for these lights so there would be an extra set of wiring connections at the camper/truck junction. Not really appealing to me.



During the action I'm gloved up/sticky but we'll see if the wife will poke out one of these days. Earlier in the thread I went over the non-glamours setup: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/58926-POD-Homebuilt-foam-core-fiberglass-skin-pop-up-camper-build-thread?p=914017#post914017 Basically once a piece is sanded, rounded, etc. and ready for glass I lay it down in a work space. I put my roll of glass cloth on a rod between two saw horses to spool cloth off it, I lay out a ply I need in the orientation I want and cut/trim/label it. Then fold it and set to the side and repeat with the other ply(s). As for glassing: Glove up, head over to the bench to mix up the correct resin/hardner ratio. First coat on these rough sanded foam cores I mix some micro balloons in it and use a squeegee to skim the piece and fill it in (this rough sanding give more surface area for the skins to bond to), then lay out the first ply onto it and once it's straightened pour unfilled epoxy over it, I'll usually start in the middle of a piece. Spread it around thick and give it a moment to start wetting out the cloth (it becomes clear), then I'll start in the center of my wetted area and start squeegeeing outwards to work out the air bubbles and excess resin, I'll push this to non-wetted cloth areas to keep moving along till I run out of mixed epoxy. Then mix more and repeat till the ply is done. Then lay down the next one, straighten it out and get it flat and repeat. Slow work, I just rock podcasts/audiobooks on my headphones.

There are books out there that talk about this stuff more and ALWAYS do some test piece work to familiarize yourself with the process before going full bore.

[pods8]

Top is all sanded out ready for glass. I'll work on finishing up the side panels and probably start on those first though most likely. When I get to doing the top I'll need to move the main camper out of the garage because it's too high up to comfortably do the big layup sitting where it currently is but I don't have enough room in the garage to do it side by side. After I glass the exterior of the top I plan to flip it over and work on finalizing light placements and router in conduit runs which will be embedded.
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-04-14_22-48-47_299.jpg

[Boonie Buster]

Lookin' Smooth! :ylsmoke:

[Ponyracer]

Very nice man, ya I see your point about the lights but it sure would look cool lol! So what is your overlap % if there is any from one piece of mat to the next? How many layers are you doing? And how you you get rid of the "matt" look when your done since you won't have a "gelcoat"? Do you skim and sand the whole thing with filler? Sorry if you already covered this, I don't remember seeing it.

[pods8]

Very nice man, ya I see your point about the lights but it sure would look cool lol! So what is your overlap % if there is any from one piece of mat to the next? How many layers are you doing? And how you you get rid of the "matt" look when your done since you won't have a "gelcoat"? Do you skim and sand the whole thing with filler? Sorry if you already covered this, I don't remember seeing it.

Some was covered earlier but a recap doesn't hurt, lot of pages ago. For starters I'm not using mat, I'm using fiberglass cloth. The cloth I'm using isn't a full unidirectional fabric but leans that way (ie the bulk of the glass is oriented parallel to the fabric coming off the roll). This combined with a couple plys means I don't really need to overlap them but I tend to to make sure I have full coverage on each ply, I shoot of about an inch or so but the final amount depends on how the cloth lays when it's squeegeed out (moves a little). Generally I've done 3 plys on the exterior and 2 on the interior for the walls. The floor was 1/8"plywood with 2 plys glass each side. The roof may get 3 and 3. The cabover rails got extra attention.

The only way a gelcoat works is if you have a mold, you lay up the gelcoat into the mold first, then your fiberglass and the mold makes the smooth exterior surface, I don't have that option since I'm not building a big one off mold. I'll be filling/painting. However I've opted to use peel ply over top of my lamination which helps smooth things out quite a bit and fills in the fabric weave. Granted the weave is filled with resin verse a micro balloon slurry or such but for the cost/little weight it will save me a lot of work later. Esp since there isn't a good way to sand the dips in the weave of fabric layups for adhesion of the next layer without sanding through the actual glass. Sand blasting works but I wasn't going to go there. In my case with the peel ply I just rip if off, give it a scuff sanding and start my filler work or primer layer depending on how it needs to be attacked and ultimate finish desired.

[Bike_Mech]

What weight fabric are you using? 7oz 10oz etc?

Thanks
-Chris

[pods8]

I'm mainly using 8.6oz crowfoot (style 1543). More details on ply schedules, weight, etc. bank here in the thread: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/58926-POD-Homebuilt-foam-core-fiberglass-skin-pop-up-camper-build-thread?p=860140#post860140

[slawson2000]

Very Interesting Build! Also, nice job thus far.

I have been contemplating a build myself (always the designer, never the builder) and have run into the potential of sag similar to what you have. I have been thinking about a build of 3/8" ply with fiberglass both sides. I know you have opted for the smaller door but I have a question.

Was all your flex in the floor or did you have some in the forward deck and front wall?

The reason that I ask is that I see you have some cabinets against the front wall in your design. Those could be fiberglassed into the front wall and floor to help with transitioning the forces down to the truck bed. Also you could run some runners/skids under the camper to stiffen the floor.

Since I a faced with a similar problem (but a short door is not an option for me), I would be interested in your thoughts.

[pods8]

Pretty sure all the flex was in the floor in the door threshold area, knowing that now and starting from scratch if the desire is to keep a large door that area could be stiffened from the get go more easily. I'd just build a more stiff structure into the core in that area and/or thicken/stiffen the skins. Off hand since I used 2" thick foam I'd look at using a 2" pultrusion box tube in the core more or less directly under the threshold (extending past to tie it in) and also do a bit thicker lamination in that area or use carbon fiber.

[pods8]

Need to figure out a camper jack bracket, I picked up a set of 2" square tube jacks. The main bodies are ~50" and there is 32" of extension. The three main studs on the jack body are in the upper 20" and then there is one lower down maybe 12" off the bottom as a guess. Due to the overlapping nature of my camper build the brackets on my camper will be on the bottom 20" and after that the overlapping top of the camper will jut out about 2.5".

So due to the nature of things if I mounted the jacks straight up to the camper then the lowest I could drop it down is ~30" which isn't desirable. So below is one idea that popped in my head, looking for input if anyone is seeing another good idea. I figured I'd mount a 2"x2" angle down the side of the bracket using the mounting studs, the top part of this would attached to the camper in a similar vertical dimension as above (ie I'd only be able to lower it down to about 30", this would be handy for short term removal where I didn't want it dropped lower down or if I had to lift it higher up, also this orientation is best for the crank handle). Farther down on the jack I'd add a piece of 2"x3" angle perpendicular to the first one and the jack would be rotated 90deg to use this mount, this piece would off set the jack body ~3.5" from the lower camper wall and thus clear the upper wall when it's retracted and it would allow the camper to be dropped lower to the ground (target is under 12", final dims to be determined based on practicality) this one has interference with the crank handle (even though I'd use a drill more often than not) so it's mainly be used when required to drop that low.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/Bracket-1.jpg

[pods8]

LOTS O SANDING complete and shifting gears back into the resin spread'n mode. My memory of how long lamination work takes was optimistic, hopefully I'll pick up some speed going forward as I bang these out.

Cleaned up my bench a bit, laid out some new plastic on it and got my resin/harder(s), gloves, acetone, fillers, etc. all at hand. I did the whole lower half in 4:1 fast but started in the cooler weather, it was sometimes a bit of a hussle in the summer to keep working with that so on this round I've also picked up some 3:1 medium which I'll use in the warmer temps. I still got a bit of 4:1 again for doing cooler temp nighttime work or small stuff that I don't need the longer work time. Sanded out panel in the foreground.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-04-28_13-13-40_685.jpg

Just finished up the lamination on the panel once it sets I'll trim up the edges. Working within the constraints on my space. I'll be able to do all the side panels like this but I'll have to move the main body of the camper out to do the roof.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee329/pods8/2012-04-28_17-13-45_924.jpg