Fridge/Freezers

[mountainpete]

Hi all,

I know that most of you have nice fridge setup's already, but I'm still using my trusty "Koolatron Kool-o-matic" for the past few years. It draws way too much power and doesn't stay cold enough. So the quest has been on to find a real expedition fridge.

There are a number of manufacturers out there that sell low draw fridges. But the newer three way fridges have peaked my interest (I've seen a few ads in Australian 4WD Magazine). They are 110, 12 Volt and Propane gas all in the same package. Being able to use Propane to keep the fridge running overnight inside a ventilated truck canopy (I don't sleep in there) would be really nice - don't have to worry about the battery at all.

I was particularity looking at models made by a US company called Dometic. They use an absorbtion technology that is (according to what they say) more efficient. At 25 C, they say it takes 150 Ah/24h, which I believe is high compared to others. But, a standard screw on propane bottle will last days... Here is what it looks like: Dometic fridge (http://www.dometic.com/templates/Product,1438,1197.aspx)

What do you guys think?

Pete

[Scott Brady]

I like the three way units. They are less efficient in 12v mode, which would be required while driving. Propane units wont work while moving or tilted.

I am curious of what you come up with. Keep us posted and throw out units you come across.

[mountainpete]

That's an interesting point I didn't know - that they can't be tilted in gas mode. Not really a big issue, but something I didn't think of...

I'll post different models of fridges that I'm looking at. My brother and sister in law are going to Australia for a vacation so if I find a good unit from there that is 110 & 240 I might get them to bring it over the pond. Only problem so far is they are all 240 AC only

[VikingVince]

from the research I 've done on this, you don't want a Dometic for offroading...they only work when they're level...check out Engel, Norcold, Coolmatic (imported by WaecoUSA)...they all have Danfoss compressors which enable them to work up to a 30 degree tilt.

I have a 50 liter Coomatic frig/freez and an auxillary battery in the bed of my Tacoma...it works GREAT!!!...I mean, my beer is COLD...can't beat that! :-) Also, consider an aux battery with high amp hours. I have a Concorde Lifeline 31T (an AGM - absorbed glass mat) with 110 amp hours. I can sit for 3-4 days easily without charging the aux battery. Plus AGM batteries are supposedly better for offroading than traditional dry cell because they withstand vibration better and recharge faster. Also, I wouldn't go any smaller than 50 liter...it fills up fast!...hope this helps

[BajaTaco]

I have to agree with Vince.

He makes a good point about the size. For trips any longer than a weekend (esp. for two or more people), the 50-60L units are really nice to have, as you don't have to be so scrupulous and logical about what you fill the fridge with. The extra volume can even be nice on short trips, because you can put ice containers in them (since you don't need to carry as much food/drink) and make them use very little battery juice that way (great for a 3-day weekend in hot temps. when the truck is parked at camp the whole time). However, if you mainly do short trips, the smaller models can be a great savings on weight and bulk.

The 3-way fridge is great for the versatility, and really becomes useful if you plan to park the truck and run the battery down for more than 3-4 days or so. The propane can be an alternative to having to use solar to keep the battery(ies) topped off.

As mentioned, the ability to operate at angles (30 degrees) is pretty much mandatory for a trail/expedition vehicle.

[mountainpete]

Thanks Vince & Baja...

I do a mix of short and longer trips. If it's a longer trip, it's usually about a week and the truck can be parked for two days at a time once I get to camp. Right now for those trips I'm taking a second Coleman Extreme cooler with ice. Actually keeps the ice in tact for a week, but is just way too heavy! So I can see what you mean about a 50L model.

So I guess the Dometic is right out... and so will be all of the three way fridges I have been looking at then. Might have to adjust the my thinking towards an electric fridge with an aux battery or a dual battery system. I don't enjoy dealing with batteries so I have been avoiding those topics a bit ;)

Can we talk for a bit about electric fridges and a single auxillary battery? If I get a high amp hours battery like Vince is saying and keep it in the bed, could it be possible to run the fridge and charge the battery using a solar charger for 3+ day trip? I have small solar panel which is useless for anything but winter starting, so how big would have have to go (I guess in watts) to make it work? Or would I have to connect up to the charging system of the truck similar to BajaTaco's system?

Also, what brand of fridges are you guys using?

Pete

[Scott Brady]

I have two of the 45L models, and find them to be a bit snug for trips longer than 3-4 days. What makes it worse, it that I need to use two coleman jell ice packs to keep things cool through the night. I do not have the aux. battery system finished yet, so this is a requirement.

So for the first few days I can bring lots of fresh food and meals, etc. Drinks are always fed in as each day starts.

When the aux. battery system is finished, I can ditch the ice packs, and gain another day or two of food, which will push this to a 5-6 day fridge. The danfoss compressors are very efficient and quiet.

If I was buying one new, it would be the 60L.

[mountainpete]

Have any of you seen this product before?

http://www.discountcamping.com.au/images/products/tl971.jpg

It's a Two Zone adapter for Engel/ARB fridges... It fits on top of the fridge to create a second compartment, adding 21 - 40 litres depending on the fridge.

Details here: http://www.twozone.com.au/

Pricing in Australia is in this range: http://www.discountcamping.com.au/index/products/twozone/fridges

Pete

[BajaTaco]

Can we talk for a bit about electric fridges and a single auxillary battery? If I get a high amp hours battery like Vince is saying and keep it in the bed, could it be possible to run the fridge and charge the battery using a solar charger for 3+ day trip? I have small solar panel which is useless for anything but winter starting, so how big would have have to go (I guess in watts) to make it work? Or would I have to connect up to the charging system of the truck similar to BajaTaco's system?

Also, what brand of fridges are you guys using?

Pete, you could use solar alone to charge an aux. battery, but I think you would really be limiting the potential return on your battery investment quite a bit. By not connecting it to the vehicle's charging system, you will miss out on the opportunity (every time you drive the truck) for a relatively fast charging source to get your battery topped off. Chances are you won't have the solar hooked up while driving (unless you can do full-time roof panels) and even when you do have the solar hooked up, it will likely take hours to get a drained battery charged back up.

How big would you need to go for solar? I'm not sure, but my guess is probably 100w. Keep in mind that this depends on a lot of variables. From what I have seen, solar is very expensive and I'm not sure if the price tag lends itself to the typical budget for a compact expedition vehicle. I would be tempted to just buy an additional deep cycle battery, and only take it along on trips where you intend to be parked for more than 3 days.

To answer your last question, I am using a Norcold fridge (same as Engel/ARB).

[BajaTaco]

Have any of you seen this product before?

It's a Two Zone adapter for Engel/ARB fridges...

Yea, I have seen them quite some time ago I think. I had forgotten all about them. Seems like a pretty cool option if you have the room for it. Without coils, it will add extra "non-working" volume to the box, so the compressor will have to run more. Something to keep in mind if parked.

[Scott Brady]

Have any of you seen this product before?

Pete

Wow! Great find Pete. That looks like a very interesting solution. I am not sure how it would fit though. Time to do some measuring...

[Outback Expeditions]

Are the two zone adaptors available in the U.S.?

[mountainpete]

Haven't found a dealer in North America.

[gjackson]

Using a 45L Engel (ARB) in the Sahara and other hot places, I found that I could get about 24hours of operation off an Optima yellow top before I had to run the truck to charge up. Solar has been used by a bunch of people to increase the running time. I think Chris Scott said he could go a couple of days stopped with the solar system. Check his book though.

cheers

Graham

[Scott Brady]

Using a 45L Engel (ARB) in the Sahara and other hot places, I found that I could get about 24hours of operation off an Optima yellow top before I had to run the truck to charge up. Solar has been used by a bunch of people to increase the running time. I think Chris Scott said he could go a couple of days stopped with the solar system. Check his book though.

cheers
Graham

Graham,

I have often considered solar, to make use of the area above the cab of my truck. I do not typically use a rack (I am not a fan of them), except if very lightly loaded.

Have you found any solar arays capable of withstanding scratches, tree branches, and some twisting?

I certainly warants for further research... :coffee:

[gjackson]

Scott,

I haven't really looked into solar for my truck. Chris has had good luck with his system. I'll look around and see what I can find out.

cheers

Graham

[BajaTaco]

Scott, regarding rooftop solar, that would require you to pass up perfectly good shady parking spots in favor of direct sun (with your fridge and gear inside the cabin, suffering as a result), not to mention the breakage liability, and also constantly having to clean the panels (dirty panels don't won't get you maximum charging). How about a portable panel that could be stored on a slide-out tray mounted under your tent? You could use some cables and a lightweight stand to set it on the ground and also be able to track the sun as the day wears on. the roll-up panels are very cool, but not sure they will produce as much power as the conventional panels for the same price and area.

[freightdog]

I use my ARB daily - dual yellow top Optimas and battery protection = cold storage

It better be filled with dove Thursday night - season opener!

[Scott Brady]

I have said this before, but after a good quality set of tires, the freeze/fridge is the next best mod for an exploration rig.

Only those without them disagree with me... :shakin:

I am really looking forward to having the second battery installed (with the isolator), temp gauge installed and the transit bag. After talking with Engel at SEMA last year, I really need to make getting one a priority! The transit bag not only protects the unit, but improves its efficiency with additional insulation.

[Desertdude]

I set up the Engel with the transit bag and slide lock about 3 months ago- It has made a hugh diff in the amount of work the unit has to perform. Especially in the over 100 degree heat. It is a nice fit, and not to hard to get used to opening and closing. I would like to monitor the inside temp - Scott what have you found?

[Scott Brady]

Great feedback Pasquale, thanks.

I am going to use a cyberdyne temp guage, most likely set in the dash (passenger side). The air pressure and outside temp guages will be next to it. That is the next project :)

[blupaddler]

Really, fridge/freezer that soon?
I am currently thinking about snorkel vs. fridge/freeze.

I know Vince has the Waeco (coolmatic) model. The rest of you all have the Norcold versions with the ARB/Engel brand stamped on them correct? Does anyone else have any feedback on the Waeco models? They sell reconditioned models on their website for about half price. But I am weary of the quality and long-term reliability. And the little voice in the back of my head keeps saying something about GoodTimes once sig., Price is soon forgotten, quality is not.

:coffee:

[goodtimes]

One thing I like about Vince's fridge opposed to the engle/ARB/norcold/whatever is the exterior case is plastic vs steel. This is one of the few applications where I think I prefer plastic. It will probably prove more durable in the long run if you tend to have stuff floating around in the back of your rig. The steel will dent, paint will scrape off, etc., where the plastic won't. Granted, the steel shell isn't going to get a few dents and fall apart...the functionality won't be diminished....but I think they will show the wear and tear much more than the plastic, cooler-esque outer shell of the Waeco.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go buy more ice for my cooler....

[Scott Brady]

Really, fridge/freezer that soon?
I am currently thinking about snorkel vs. fridge/freeze.


Fridge/Freeze gets my vote. With the upcoming Baja trip, you will be SOOOO happy you did that.

I like Vince's unit too. It looks very solid, and the plastic will take more abuse than my unit.

[goodtimes]

Fridge/Freeze gets my vote. With the upcoming Baja trip, you will be SOOOO happy you did that.

Don't say that! My wallet isn't happy already with the upcoming $3500 bill for a transmission.....

[BajaTaco]

I am currently thinking about snorkel vs. fridge/freeze.

:coffee:

Get the FRIDGE!!!! Hands down. You can avoid deep water crossings easier than you can avoid soggy sandwiches :D






The rest of you all have the Norcold versions with the ARB/Engel brand stamped on them correct? Does anyone else have any feedback on the Waeco models? :coffee:

Yes, I have a Norcold. I can say it is a very robust piece of equipment thus far, and from all of the comments I have read on the aussie forums, they are fairly bulletproof. It is not uncommon to see reports of 20+ yr. old units still in operation. I agree on the handsome and durable appearance of the Waeco that Vince has (http://www.bajataco.com/vikingvince/Vince_FlipPac/L_vince05_06.jpg). It is NICE! My Norcold was a "freight damaged" unit, whereby the thin sheetmetal grill that encloses the compressor/motor assy. was dented in. So yes, I agree that this particular part of the unit is easily dented (but is only cosmetic). The body with the ridgid cooler box would be a little harder to dent, but again, I think the plastic would be very durable providing it never cracks. At least I know the metal will not crack, so that is good. Robb, I would have do some searching on the http:www.exploreoz.com (http://www.exploreoz.com/) forum to get some reports and opinions from long-term waeco owners. There are lots of people using them there.

Regarding temperature monitoring, here is what I ended up doing (http://www.bajataco.com/fridge/fridge4.html) . A fairly simple setup/install that works good.

BTW, if by any chance, anyone out there is reading this thread that has a Fridge-Freeze (http://www.fridgefreeze.com/) or Artique fridge (http://www.artiquerefrigeration.com/) (sold in Tucson!), it would be fun to hear from you.

[blupaddler]

Regarding the Fridge-Freeze. There is a dealer here on Mission Bay, selling them primarily to boat owners. The guy producing them is in San Diego too. Apparently he is from South Africa. The people I have talked too so far have had nothing but positive comments.

There were rumors flying around for a while that they might be putting them on the fire trucks to keep drinks cold, etc.

[BajaTaco]

Yea, DesertBull from ORC (off-road.com) did a nice review article on the FF unit a few years ago, but I have never met anyone else who owned one. They look really sweet. 1500 bills for the 60L model. (probably a good example of GT's sig line :) )

[blupaddler]

Yeah, that is kinda pricey. But the stainless steel is a good option for the marine environment.

There is also a guy on craigslist, in the LA area, selling two Norcold 40's for $500 each. Maybe someone can bargain with him.

[cshontz]

Sorry to dig up an older thread, but I run an Engel/ARB 32L fridge. I can get at least 24 hours out of it at a moderate setting with an Optima Yellow Top, and an otherwise stock electrical system.

My only complaint is the exterior construction is prone to bumps and bruises. You're going to want to make absolute certain that this unit is strapped down at all times.

A good fridge-freezer is definately one of those things that once you have, you'll wonder how you ever lived without, expedition or not. :)

[pangaea]

Chris,

Trust me on this: Buy a transit bag for your fridge/freezer. It'll help out on both counts. Better insulation = lower cycle time and less battery draw. And the padding will help with the bumps and scrapes the fridge inevitably gets.

[Scott Brady]

Nathan is right on. I just installed the transit bag and the fridge is much happier. I dont cringe if something slides over the top of it.

[Brian McVickers]

A good fridge-freezer is definately one of those things that once you have, you'll wonder how you ever lived without, expedition or not. :)

Glad you started this up again, and I know what you mean as I once went a full year of living on our boat with no refrigerator or freezer. Did you know that eggs don't need to be refrigerated!

Ok, so the real reason for my post --
I want to get one of these 12v refrigerator / freezers for my rig but I don't want to spend $500. I have seen the Igloo's and the Colemans for about $80 but worried that they will be junk and seem to only go 40 degrees below ambient.

Is there a $100 - $200 option out there?

[Scott Brady]

Keep looking on Ebay. There are deals to be had from time to time.

I had two units for several years. The Engel I have was purchased off of a neighbor for $150... :D

[pangaea]

$150 for an Engel? You sure it wasn't stolen? :victory:

That's a smokin' deal. :ylsmoke:

[Scott Brady]

Yeah, I freaked out. He was an 80+ year old neighbor who used the unit in his motorhome as a freezer. I was trying to remain calm when he told me $150.

Even at $600+, they are worth every penny.

[BajaTaco]

$150 for an Engel? You sure it wasn't stolen? :victory:

That's a smokin' deal. :ylsmoke:

Got my 60 Liter unit for $270 :victory: :victory:

[pangaea]

Got my 60 Liter unit for $270

You people suck. I'm taking my ball and I'm going home. :shakin:

Those are amazing deals... I can't think of the last time that I saw a used Engel for sale, much less at a bargain like that.

[BajaTaco]

You people suck. I'm taking my ball and I'm going home. :shakin:


:p :o :p

Yea, I couldn't believe it myself. I bought it through a marine wholesaler and it was an old scratch & dent unit and they were cleaning out their warehouse. There were actually 3 of them and I was lucky enough to be told about it by the guys buying the other two. We all felt a little weird giving our CC numbers - thinking it was way too good to be true and we would be scammed. But sure enough, they all arrived at their respective destinations. Mine did in fact have a dent in the side where the grill is... but 2 1/2 yrs. later and it's still going strong :D

[flyingwil]

I need a great deal like that! If anyone sees one let me know! :shakin:

WIL

[blupaddler]

You & Me both!!!

Also, check www.craigslist.org they have regional stuff. You can find them every now and then. I keep searching, searching, and searching, and searching. Did I tell you I am searching.

:hehe:

[dmc]

It looks like I found my deal on a fridge. :xxrotflma I'm not sure the 60 is what I really need but I can't pass up the deal. It's not quite Baja Taco's steal but it's solid. $600 for the ARB 60liter. Thanksgiving :eatchicke weekend will be the perfect time to test it.
dmc

[Scott Brady]

Score David! You will not regret the 60L capacity at all :)

[BajaTaco]

Only 10 bucks per liter! Not bad at all :ylsmoke: You're gonna love all the room. Get ready for luxury :cool:

[cshontz]

Dave,
Since the fridge has numerous every day uses which you will inevitably take advantage of, you will have to remove the self-proclaimed "poseur" title from your sig. Its only appropriate.

[blupaddler]

Dave,
Congrats!!! How much nicer would your Utah trip have been with the 60?
BTW nice write-up in Toyota Trails. Really good, and made me yearn for another trip.

[dmc]

Dave,
Congrats!!! How much nicer would your Utah trip have been with the 60?
BTW nice write-up in Toyota Trails. Really good, and made me yearn for another trip.


Honestly that trip convinced me that ice and coolers were antiquated relics and would never cut it on longer trips. I guess I'll have to redo the trip to confirm it. :ylsmoke:
dmc

[Scott Brady]

David,

Sounds like a good idea to me :)

[jeffryscott]

so, does the trusty kool-o-matic suffice for occasional use? Or is a coleman with ice just as good for a few days?

I'm very interested in one of the ARB/Engel/Waeco, but right now $79 is much more palateable than $600, unless I find a great deal somewhere. Also, given the size of the Suzuki I need to be aware of space/size considerations.

Thinking of which, has anybody had any experience with the Waeco 30-quart drawer, (picture attached) I could probably build it in and make it part of an integrated storage area in back.

[jeffryscott]

I've found a few KooLex portables on Ebay Canada, but can't find any info about them. The prices seem a bit more reasonable.

Does anybody know anything about them?


Thanks,

Jeff

[Suty]

No Jeff , but like you I saw some on Ebay...It will supposedly cool down 40 degrees below the outside temp, meaning 100 outside ,60 in the Koolex I guess? The one I saw was like 54 qt for 109.00. But like most stuff I guess you get what ya pay for..... I would be intereseted in knowing how good they are. Tu Compadres, Suty

[BajaTaco]

so, does the trusty kool-o-matic suffice for occasional use? Or is a coleman with ice just as good for a few days?

I'm very interested in one of the ARB/Engel/Waeco, but right now $79 is much more palateable than $600...

Jeff, I think the one you are talking about is a "Peltier effect" cooler (uses semi-conductor thermo-electricity to cool), and they are generally regarded as fairly inefficient when you consider the power consumed vs. the cooling achieved. The advantage to them is that they are fairly affordable, and can be nice for use inside an air conditioned vehicle for trips where you are driving a lot and not parked very much. This is magnified for someone living in AZ. when you park your vehicle and it gets to be 110 - 120 degrees or more inside. I definitely wouldn't rely on one for storing meats or anything that can make you ill if it is not properly cooled. A good Coleman cooler with block ice or dry ice can last a very long time, but you are still left with the hassle of ice and the melt water, and the fixed temp.

[jeffryscott]

Thanks Chris, that is kindof what my gut was saying, the cheapo electric cooler wouldn't be much better than ice and a good coleman.

Although, thinking of Colemans, Costco has this:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11092204&whse=BC&topnav=&cat=293&hierPath=293*

I cannot find any info about it as far as off-road-ability. It lists for nearly $700 on Colemans site and looks like a good option compared to Engel/Waeco/ARB, but I'm ignorant about this stuff ...

Jeff

[BajaTaco]

Interesting find. I haven't seen this one before. I did find a manual (http://www.coleman.com/coleman/images/pdf/5726-750.pdf) for it. It appears to be the same thing - thermo-electric. But I'm surprised at the temperature capabilities of it which are pretty impressive. It says it draws 4 amps, which is not bad at all. But I wonder if that is constant draw or not. You would definitely want to find this out. 4 amps when you are running the alternator isn't a big deal, but a constant 4 amp draw when you are camping would be an issue. It also says not to exceed a 12 degree tilt, which is not so good for trail use where exceeding 12 degrees is pretty common. It uses air circulation inside the chest for proper cooling, and with it only being a 25 liter capacity, I would be a little concerned that it would limit how much food/drinks you could pack in there before you started affecting the circulation. It's definitely a nice looking fridge appearance-wise.

[jeffryscott]

Ok, 12-degree tilt won't work. This is looking more and more like the choices are the aforementioned name brands. I contacted the Koolex guy who is selling coolers on ebay Canada and the Koolex is his namebrand, made in China. I'll have to email him back about the tilt and draw.

Meanwhile, I'll keep searching for a ganga deal on one of the good ones.

Thanks,

Jeff

[blupaddler]

I know Vince got a "reconditioned" Fridge/Freezer from Waeco. I believe he has the 52 or something really close. He loves his, and hasn't had any troubles. You can get them at half price. The warranty is only valid for 30 days though. I recently saw an 80 for around $350. Not, bad...

Check out www.waecousa.com Look under products, and reconditioned or refurbished. Good luck.

:jumping:

[jeffryscott]

Thanks, I did see mention of waeco refurbs earlier and have been checking it. I think that or ebay will be the answer. Waeco posts the deals once a month, I will need to check it often and jump when they have what I want. I just need to take some measurements and figure out how big I can go in my limited space.

[jeffryscott]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7564301692&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ARTQ%3AUS%3A1&rd=1

Item: NEW KOOLEX PORTABLE 12V FREEZER/REFRIGERATOR-33 QUARTS (7564301692)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
wanbaofridge is the seller.

the average power consumption is about 45watts.
normally cooling compressor runs for long period, the angle shall be not more than 30 degree. We have tested our product at 35 degree, it worked well.The working principle is like a home freezer, the only thing is each component and circuit is compact and optimized.Thks


This is from the seller on ebay. Performance wise it seems similar to the other units, but I think I'd be nervous about quality issues.

[Scott Brady]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7564301692&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ARTQ%3AUS%3A1&rd=1

Item: NEW KOOLEX PORTABLE 12V FREEZER/REFRIGERATOR-33 QUARTS (7564301692)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
wanbaofridge is the seller.

the average power consumption is about 45watts.
normally cooling compressor runs for long period, the angle shall be not more than 30 degree. We have tested our product at 35 degree, it worked well.The working principle is like a home freezer, the only thing is each component and circuit is compact and optimized.Thks


This is from the seller on ebay. Performance wise it seems similar to the other units, but I think I'd be nervous about quality issues.

Jeff, that looks like a pretty good deal... I have never seen one though, or heard any feedback on its performance.

Have you checked out the Engel 25? It is a very compact unit with a great price: http://www.pangaea-expeditions.com/engel/index.html

http://www.pangaea-expeditions.com/images/productimages/engel/mt25sm.jpg

[BajaTaco]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7564301692&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ARTQ%3AUS%3A1&rd=1

Item: NEW KOOLEX PORTABLE 12V FREEZER/REFRIGERATOR-33 QUARTS (7564301692)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
wanbaofridge is the seller.

the average power consumption is about 45watts.
normally cooling compressor runs for long period, the angle shall be not more than 30 degree. We have tested our product at 35 degree, it worked well.The working principle is like a home freezer, the only thing is each component and circuit is compact and optimized.Thks


This is from the seller on ebay. Performance wise it seems similar to the other units, but I think I'd be nervous about quality issues.


It's probably using a danfoss compressor, so that's good. I believe all of the high-performance portable fridges are using either the danfoss compressor (Waeco, etc) or the sawafuji swing motor (engel, ARB, Norcold). You could always be a guinea pig and test it out. If it's not to your liking, I'm sure you could re-sell it with either no or little loss. If you plan to keep it "portable" in other words, easily removeable from your suzuki, you could always split the cost with another forum member that lives close by, and share it. If it's good, then you guys could just buy another.

[BajaTaco]

BTW, I notice that Engel has a new 80 litre model available now or very soon...

The MT80F (http://www.engelaustralia.com.au/cgi-bin/specific_item.cgi?id=12626-662496468-1123180878&item=MT80F)

and I guess they will also make a unit with separate fridge and freezer compartments, the MT80F-C COMBI. Pretty cool! :cool: (pun intended) The MT80F-C is noted in their ad in the latest Australian 4WD Monthly mag, but looking at their site, it appears that maybe the split chest version actually only comes out to be 75 liters (which makes sense depending on the interior construction). Regardless, that is a sweet option!

[Boston Mangler]

I have two of the 45L models, and find them to be a bit snug for trips longer than 3-4 days. What makes it worse, it that I need to use two coleman jell ice packs to keep things cool through the night. I do not have the aux. battery system finished yet, so this is a requirement.

Will it drain the battery dead, just from leaving it running one night? Are you talking about fridge or freezer mode? I am in the market for one of these and want to make sure i have all my details in order. From all my previoes "Net Research" they should be able to be run for 2-3 days and the battery should have plenty of power to start the rig. Am i wrong? Need to find out soon, i planned on getting one of these for my 5 day, self sufficent trip to Baja for new years. If i need an AUX battery to get it to work, i might have to rethink things.


Also, how long can these things be run continuous? Any ideas? You guys plan on running these none stop on the cabo trip?

Input?

[Boston Mangler]

Yeah, that is kinda pricey. But the stainless steel is a good option for the marine environment.

There is also a guy on craigslist, in the LA area, selling two Norcold 40's for $500 each. Maybe someone can bargain with him.

Hey Rob

Are you in the market for one? I might be interested in doing this with ya. Lets go offer him $900! :D

What condition are they in? I am free this weekend for the drive!

[BajaTaco]

BM, I definitely wouldn't risk running one for 2-3 days on a battery that is used for starting and running the vehicle. There are too many variables involved. If you want to take a fridge on your Baja trip and don't have time to set up an aux. battery, just borrow or buy one of those portable jumper battery packs with a decent reserve on it, and use that. You can recharge it while you drive by connecting it to a cigarette lighter outlet. Or you could just take a 12VDC deep cycle battery for that matter, if you have a safe place to secure it. You can charge it via the 12V outlet plug as well. Just rig up a paired wire with a cig. lighter adapter on one end, and a pair of alligator clips on the other.

I did a little voltage test with my 60 liter one hot weekend in the desert - I'll dig up the info. Also - take a look at the thread here on solar power for Scott's truck. We did some estimates on fridge power consumption there I think.

[Boston Mangler]

BM, I definitely wouldn't risk running one for 2-3 days on a battery that is used for starting and running the vehicle. There are too many variables involved. If you want to take a fridge on your Baja trip and don't have time to set up an aux. battery, just borrow or buy one of those portable jumper battery packs with a decent reserve on it, and use that. You can recharge it while you drive by connecting it to a cigarette lighter outlet. Or you could just take a 12VDC deep cycle battery for that matter, if you have a safe place to secure it. You can charge it via the 12V outlet plug as well. Just rig up a paired wire with a cig. lighter adapter on one end, and a pair of alligator clips on the other.

I did a little voltage test with my 60 liter one hot weekend in the desert - I'll dig up the info. Also - take a look at the thread here on solar power for Scott's truck. We did some estimates on fridge power consumption there I think.

What about starting the rig every 8 hours or so and letting it run for a bit? :confused:

I will be with 4 or 5 other rigs that could "Jump" me if needed.

What do you think?

[Scott Brady]

It is completely dependent on ambient temps. I killed a yellow top optima in 14 hours in the Altar Desert. I was glad to have the little back-up battery unit to start the truck with.

Here are some measurements I took during the Expedition Trophy:

Measurements of voltage drop on blue top optima 55ah aux. battery.

Day one:
Ambient: start 78
starting voltage: 12.9v
ending voltage: 12.1v
hours of operation: 16 hours

Day two:
Ambient: start 62
starting voltage: 12.8v
ending voltage: 12.2v
hours of operation: 14 hours

Day three:
Ambient: start 58
starting voltage: 12.8v
ending voltage: 12.1v
hours of operation: 13 hours
Note: included running laptop for 2+ hours 75watts

Technically, if the fridge ran non-stop, you would reach an optima blue top depth of draw at 10.8 hours.

Engel 45l: Amp Draw: 2.5
Optima at 50% DOD: 27 amps

27/2.5= 10.8 hours

Depth of draw is critical for evaluating battery requirements and accessory impact on amp storage.

[BajaTaco]

What about starting the rig every 8 hours or so and letting it run for a bit? :confused:

I will be with 4 or 5 other rigs that could "Jump" me if needed.

What do you think?

I think that would be a waste of fuel and add unnecessary pollution to the beautiful skies of Baja ;) If you let the fridge flatten the battery, you will just reduce the life of the battery. If it's a deep cycle, it won't eat into the life cycle as much. If it's a starting battery, you will do some pretty good damage to it by letting it run flat.


Scott, the ambient temp that you cited in your record - is that outside ambient air temp? If so, what time of day is the recorded run-time happening? Was the fridge on the whole time for each run time cited? What temp. were you maintaining inside the fridge, and what was the temp inside the truck cabin during the run time?

"Technically, if the fridge ran non-stop, you would reach an optima blue top depth of draw at 10.8 hours.

Engel 45l: Amp Draw: 2.5
Optima at 50% DOD: 27 amps

27/2.5= 10.8 hours"
When you say 27 amps, you mean amp-hour capacity, correct? The fridge doesn't run non-stop, it cycles on and off as conditions dictate to maintain the temperature setting via thermostat control, so I think the 10.8 hours could be potentially doubled or quadrupled or even more depending on variables such as ambient temps, contents of fridge, lid-opening frequency, humidity, etc.


BTW, I found my notes for that one little test I did at KOFA. This was during a pretty warm time of the year, and I did a little expiriment using some ice containers in my fridge to supplement the cooling and reduce run time. Keep in mind that I maintained a temperature a bit above what I normally run, which is 28-32 degrees F.

To quote myself:

" This past weekend, I went to the Kofa Nat'l Wildlife Refuge to train with Scott and Uwe for the adventure race. I tried an obvious trick with my fridge - I used two plastic containers of water totaling 3.5 gallons, and froze them before I left on the trip. I loaded them in the fridge with my food and drinks and left on Friday afternoon. I got to camp around 7 pm on Friday night. The truck stayed parked until Sunday around noon (about 41 hours). I adjusted the thermostat on the way to Kofa so that the fridge would maintain about 33° F (0.5° C). At camp on the first night, I adjusted it to about 36° F (2.2° C). Before retiring for the night, I turned it off. I was careless and did not record the overnight ambient air temperature in the cabin where the fridge is (in fact, I neglected to record actual cabin temps all weekend - my mind was preoccupied with other things). My guess is that overnight temps were in the low 60's F (mid teens C). When I checked the fridge temp. in the morning, it had only increased by 2 degrees. We left for the day's training, and I had to lock up the truck. I left the side vent windows cracked open for some air circulation. I adjusted the thermostat to the highest temperature setting to drain the battery as little as possible. I am sure the ambient temperature inside the cabin exceeded 100° F (38° C) during midday on both days, as outside temps were likely in the mid 90's F (mid 30's C). I checked the fridge on late Saturday afternoon when we returned, and it was at a cool 40.7° F (4.8° C). Not bad! I again turned it back down to a setting of about 36° F (2.2° C) for the rest of the evening. Once again, I turned it off before retiring. Sunday was a repeat of the previous day, except that we departed camp around noon. Before leaving, I pulled the negative connections from the battery and let it sit for about 15 minutes before taking a voltage reading with the MM. I recorded a voltage of 12.7 volts. Keep in mind that other than the fridge, I only used the battery for about 20 minutes of VHF radio operation, and maybe 10 minutes for a 5W halogen lamp.

Using this info, I can see an advantage to having a 60 liter fridge is the ability to put some nice big ice containers in there to reduce power consumption, and still have ample room for food and beverages. Of course, this ratio would diminish on a longer trip, but it is still pretty nice. Also, adding some insulation to the box for the time when it is sitting idle in the heat would certainly help as well. I noted that one of my ice containers (2.5 gallon), did not have a chance to freeze completely before I removed it from the freezer at home and left for the trip. The one gallon container did. If I was able to get the larger container to freeze solid, that would have helped even more. Using this preliminary data, I am speculating that I could use about 35-40% (24 liters) of the storage capacity for ice containers, and use the remaining (36 liters) for food and drink, and be able to park the vehicle for possibly 4 days without flattening the battery (or running out of food?). Beverages can always be added to the fridge as needed (but this will increase power consumption somewhat). And this also depends on the type of beverage and ambient dry storage temperatures. I will just have to expiriment more! "

Needless to say, That was over a year and half ago, and I haven't really done any more recorded testing. :p

[Scott Brady]

Scott, the ambient temp that you cited in your record - is that outside ambient air temp? If so, what time of day is the recorded run-time happening? Was the fridge on the whole time for each run time cited? What temp. were you maintaining inside the fridge, and what was the temp inside the truck cabin during the run time?

It was the outside air temp at the time I shut the engine off. I did not sample the outside air temp during the test cycles.

I do not know how often the fridge ran, or how long, just the voltage drop.

I was maintaining 28 degrees in the fridge.


"Technically, if the fridge ran non-stop, you would reach an optima blue top depth of draw at 10.8 hours.

Engel 45l: Amp Draw: 2.5
Optima at 50% DOD: 27 amps

27/2.5= 10.8 hours"
When you say 27 amps, you mean amp-hour capacity, correct? The fridge doesn't run non-stop, it cycles on and off as conditions dictate to maintain the temperature setting via thermostat control, so I think the 10.8 hours could be potentially doubled or quadrupled or even more depending on variables such as ambient temps, contents of fridge, lid-opening frequency, humidity, etc.


It was an absolute calculation, showing worse case. I try to use this as the test of the systems ability to perform under the most brutal of conditions, like a week in the jungle, etc.

I have had times when the fridge ran non-stop. This is especially true when it is hot out, and Steph and I are drinking fluids. Opening and closing the fridge, putting warm drinks inside, etc. :sunny:

During my first trip into the gulf region in October of 2003, the fridge ran non-stop for 4 days. It was 114 degrees when we hit the rail tracks north of the salt flats.

I will say that the transit bag has made a big difference in the performance of the fridge. The sun cannot bake the top lid anymore, and the fridge holds temps much longer when not running.

[BajaTaco]

Ahhh, ok, thanks for answering my questions. ;) I mentioned the constant run-time just to clarify that the 10.8 hours isn't an absolute, but I can see using that for worst-case scenario. One more question - I noticed that on Day Two you started with more voltage than you ended with on Day One. So this wasn't starting the cycle in the morning, but rather in the evening? And your run-times were overnight (when it is cooler)? I am trying to remember that weekend, but my guess is that Day One cycle started in late morning (on Friday), and ran until the evening when we went to the river crossing. Day Two cycle would have started in the evening (at camp) and gone overnight to morning. Day Three cycle would be an evening cycle as well.

[Boston Mangler]

Pete, you could use solar alone to charge an aux. battery, but I think you would really be limiting the potential return on your battery investment quite a bit. By not connecting it to the vehicle's charging system, you will miss out on the opportunity (every time you drive the truck) for a relatively fast charging source to get your battery topped off. Chances are you won't have the solar hooked up while driving (unless you can do full-time roof panels) and even when you do have the solar hooked up, it will likely take hours to get a drained battery charged back up.

How big would you need to go for solar? I'm not sure, but my guess is probably 100w. Keep in mind that this depends on a lot of variables. From what I have seen, solar is very expensive and I'm not sure if the price tag lends itself to the typical budget for a compact expedition vehicle. I would be tempted to just buy an additional deep cycle battery, and only take it along on trips where you intend to be parked for more than 3 days.

To answer your last question, I am using a Norcold fridge (same as Engel/ARB).

Check this out:
http://www.fridgefreeze.com/recreation/prod-accessories.html

[Boston Mangler]

Hey Guys

I just bought a 45qt Norcold and had a question. Do these things give off any kind of condensation at all?

I am planning on building a little box thing with the fridge on top and my power inverter underneath it seperated only by a piece of 1/2" plywood and about 2" of air. Anyone see a problem with water getting onto the inverter or are these things persperation free?

Thanks!

[BajaTaco]

Congrats!!

I have had no issues with condensation on the outside of my unit.

[Boston Mangler]

Congrats!!

Got it for $485 NEW plus $22 shipping!!!! It is the Norcold MRFT-40!


I have had no issues with condensation on the outside of my unit.

Cool! Glad to hear it! I am on a mission to find that cool thermometer setup you have? :)

Also, does anyone have that Engel "Transit Lock" sliding thing? Not the big $ one metal, but the $65 one? Curious to see it in action!

Thanks

[BajaTaco]

Cool! Glad to hear it! I am on a mission to find that cool thermometer setup you have? :)

I haven't seen any more specifically like the one I have, but any 12V thermometer with the little "outdoor" sensor should work fine. Or you could go all out and get a sweet LED digital Cyberdyne temp. gauge like the ExWest Taco has. Good find on the fridge deal. Man, you are gonna love it.

:jumping: :beer: :chowtime:

[Boston Mangler]

I haven't seen any more specifically like the one I have, but any 12V thermometer with the little "outdoor" sensor should work fine. Or you could go all out and get a sweet LED digital Cyberdyne temp. gauge like the ExWest Taco has. Good find on the fridge deal. Man, you are gonna love it.

:jumping: :beer: :chowtime:

Actually, i came across this one, Engel Unit

http://www.compactappliance.com/xq/JSP.detailmain/itemID.8882/itemType.PRODUCT/iProductID.8882/qx/shopping/product/product.htm

[BajaTaco]

Actually, i came across this one, Engel Unit

http://www.compactappliance.com/xq/JSP.detailmain/itemID.8882/itemType.PRODUCT/iProductID.8882/qx/shopping/product/product.htm

That's cool. The only thing I'm not crazy about is that it runs on AAA batteries (not 12v). A fresh set will probably run that thermo for a long time though, so no biggie.

[Boston Mangler]

That's cool. The only thing I'm not crazy about is that it runs on AAA batteries (not 12v). A fresh set will probably run that thermo for a long time though, so no biggie.

Yeah, i concur! I am on a mission to find something similar like what you have! :D

[Desertdude]

Actually, i came across this one, Engel Unit

http://www.compactappliance.com/xq/JSP.detailmain/itemID.8882/itemType.PRODUCT/iProductID.8882/qx/shopping/product/product.htm


I bought that one a few months ago - it runs on a flat disc watch type batery - being digital I cannot imagine it using much juice to run.

I did not get to into it - just dropped in the little thermostat end into the fridge - and velcroed the unit onto the back of the truck where I can read it from the mirror or by turningaround when I get into the fridge - it has been nice to know the exact temps inside and outside the fridge - Quick and easy for now ;)


Side note: I have really not had to change the fridge temp adjustment during hot or cold days - it just runs less on colder days ( I also have the tranist bag cover which is priceless) -

[Desertdude]

Actually, i came across this one, Engel Unit

http://www.compactappliance.com/xq/JSP.detailmain/itemID.8882/itemType.PRODUCT/iProductID.8882/qx/shopping/product/product.htm


I bought that one a few months ago - it runs on a flat disc watch type battery - being digital I cannot imagine it using much juice to run.

I did not get to into it - just dropped in the little thermostat end into the fridge - and Velcro the unit onto the back of the truck where I can read it from the mirror or by turning around when I get into the fridge - it has been nice to know the exact temps inside and outside the fridge - Quick and easy for now ;)


Side note: I have really not had to change the fridge temp adjustment during hot or cold days - it just runs less on colder days ( I also have the transit bag cover which is priceless) -

[Boston Mangler]

I bought that one a few months ago - it runs on a flat disc watch type battery - being digital I cannot imagine it using much juice to run.

I did not get to into it - just dropped in the little thermostat end into the fridge - and Velcro the unit onto the back of the truck where I can read it from the mirror or by turning around when I get into the fridge - it has been nice to know the exact temps inside and outside the fridge - Quick and easy for now ;)


Side note: I have really not had to change the fridge temp adjustment during hot or cold days - it just runs less on colder days ( I also have the transit bag cover which is priceless) -

Curious, on a warm day (75 or so) what setting do you run it at to keep everything cool?

Thanks

[Desertdude]

I run mine between 1 and 1.5 - stays between 39 - 45 degrees - depending on how full it is

[Boston Mangler]

I run mine between 1 and 1.5 - stays between 39 - 45 degrees - depending on how full it is

Thanks, i just got mine and am experimenting a bit

[Desertdude]

congratulations - it will change the way you live off-road :eatchicke

[BajaXplorer]

Also, does anyone have that Engel "Transit Lock" sliding thing? Not the big $ one metal, but the $65 one? Curious to see it in action!

Thanks

I use a transit lock and I'm very pleased with it. Not sure what you want, maybe a picture?
BX

[Desertdude]

I have the transit lock ( high impact pastic) it is OK I can't seem to get mine to work easily - I have it bolted down to a piece of 3/4" plywood - it is possible I have a slight bend to the ply - have not checked it out yet.

It does stay locked and when I hit the button it release fine ( just hard to slam it into lock position) :)

All and all the best way to hold the unit in place

[BMAN]

Reading through this thread I noticed where both SCott and Baja have run similar yet very different tests on their machines to calculate efficiency and battery drain. Can you really even be fair w/o addressing actuall hour of runtime for the motor? I'd like to know if anyone has thought of attaching an hourmeter to figure "ACTUAL" runtime for the fridge to maintain a set temp over a set time at whatever that random temp might be.

Pricey but maybe worth the investment for testing purposes is this unit
http://www.engineeringtalk.com/news/enm/enm100.html

Attaches directly to your compressor motor and measures only "true" run time.

[Life_in_4Lo]

Even on a hot day, 1.5 is a good setting. I had it around 2 and it started freezing stuff, outside temp was around 90

i think 1 to 1.5 is good for refrigeration

[BajaTaco]

Cool idea BMAN. (no pun intended) 73 bucks would buy a really nice bottle of tequila though. :p But if anyone wants to send me a meter - I'd be happy to run the test on my 60L. I bet someone could find comprehensive fridge tests in back issues of Australian 4wd Monthly. I might even have one somewhere... I will need to look.

On the setting, mine varies depending on ambient temps. and I haven't really paid much attention to where it is on the dial. I will check on this next trip.

[Boston Mangler]

I use a transit lock and I'm very pleased with it. Not sure what you want, maybe a picture?
BX

Thanks!

Basically i am trying to decide if the transit lock is a better deal then the unit shown here: http://www.sleeoffroad.com/products/products_fridges.htm

Seems to be a big price gap between the two. I have seen the metal one posted above in action and its great, but if the transit lock does the same job for about 1/3 the price, i would go that route! :D

Thanks

[gjackson]

I think the two have slightly different purposes. The slidelock is more of a nice mounting system to keep the fridge in one place. The unit Slee sells holds the fridge but also allows you to roll it out for easy access while still mounted. The slide lock is pretty easy to operate, but despite its name it does not make the fridge that easy to slide in and out on a regular basis. Mainly it just keeps the fridge in place without having to put a strap over the lid. The fridge slide lets you pull the fridge out of a door while still mounted for easy filling.

I've used a slidelock and it is a really secure mounting system. But then I don't have my fridge in a location where I could benefit from having it roll out.

cheers

[BajaXplorer]

My ARB is now permanently mounted in the transitlock on a platform where my rear seat used to be. Before the change, the transitlock was fastened down in the bed at the rear so that the when the camper shell was opened and tailgate down I could just slip it out to rest on the tailgate or sit it around camp (or picnic table) for a few hours then put it back into the transitlock. It work easily for quick install or removal. The only reason to pay the bucks for the unit with the slide built in would be if you needed the support to hold it up.
BX
Had to edit my post as I was using slide in place of transit (an old guy thing).

[Hltoppr]

I'm using a transit lock, which works very well. The slidelock would be convenient to have slightly better access when the tailgate is down, but not enough to make me switch...

-H-