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Beowulf
04-29-2011, 05:33 PM
Just in case no one has seen it, Samson.com has a great site full of .PDFs and Videos on splicing rope.

http://www.samsonrope.com/splicing-instructions.cfm

They also have a book out as well that I am guessing is all the PDF spiral bound.

Amazon.com: Samson Splicing Manual: Home Improvement

I figured we needed a place to share our splicing stories, techniques, and resources.

opie
04-29-2011, 07:16 PM
The splicing manual is essentially all the PDF files put into a small spiral bound book.

Some of the splices Samson demonstrates they have videos for as well. Very helpfull.

Master-Pull
04-29-2011, 07:16 PM
If you are stuck on a trail and need a quick fix this is a handy trail splice to use

A ball point pen, tape, and a knife is all that is needed to direct bury a rope. Depending on the diameter of the rope you are using a direct bury involves burying three fids, shown below.

For liability sake, I will say that I do not recommended anyone doing this and Master-Pull would like all of our ropes to be sent back if they are damaged so we can repair them. We are in no way liable for what happens to any of our ropes if you modify them or try to splice them yourself.


Step one- Taper 1 pen length of the line at the end, so you don't have an abrupt edge where the rope starts and stops. We taper by pulling 2 strands, skipping 2, pulling 2, skipping 2, pulling 2. After that you can taper half of the remaining strands (6 should be remaining of the 12 you started out with) about 2 inches from the end of the line.

Step two- Take the pen and measure out two more fid lengths on the line (in addition to what you just tapered) plus whatever rope wraps through or around the thimble. Mark this spot on the rope so you know where to start burying the end. Three 3/8ths fids are about equal to four ball point pen lengths.

Step three- Tape the tapered end of the rope into the flat end of the pen (or an easy thing to do is pull the ink out of the pen and shove the rope in and then tape it. We use masking tape or electrical tape. Just make sure you get enough on there to hold the rope to the pen.

Step four- Go to the mark on the rope (where you had marked out three pen lengths PLUS the thimble length, and start burying the rope back inside of itself. You will want to push the rope together like a Chinese Finger Trap so it loosens up and then you can slide the pen down. Don't try to pull the pen through, instead gently push it and make sure the rope doesn't get caught or bunched up. Once the three fids are buried you can pull the pen out and milk the rope tight.

Step five- Stitch the rope, so it doesn't come loose. It doesn't matter how really, as long as you get a few in there that can hold the outer strands to the onces you just buried in.


http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/alexer03/MASTER-PULL/P1010141.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/alexer03/MASTER-PULL/P1010142.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/alexer03/MASTER-PULL/P1010143.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/alexer03/MASTER-PULL/P1010144.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/alexer03/MASTER-PULL/P1010145.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/alexer03/MASTER-PULL/P1010146.jpg

-Alex

Beowulf
04-29-2011, 07:58 PM
Question:

Why choose a Brummel Lock on a thimble vs. the Stitch Lock splice? I see that most repairs just do a straight splice and recommend Lock Stiching the splice, but it seems most manufactures use a Brummel Lock? Is it just because it is easier to do in the field or easire for people to remember how to do it? I would prefer to never stitch a splice so it is easier to undo if/when I want to do something different.

Kris: Thank you for making this video.

YouTube - How to replace the thimble in your Amsteel Blue Winch Rope

Beowulf
04-29-2011, 08:01 PM
The pen as a fid is a good idea.

Master-Pull
04-29-2011, 08:09 PM
With a lock brummel vs a direct bury, you cannot pull the brummel apart without taking the entire line through itself. So manufacturers use this so a customer doesn't accidentally undo the splice, we stitch our direct buries to try to keep them together.

As far as getting stitches out, if they are properly done I can undo them in less time then it takes to put them in.

-Alex

Beowulf
04-29-2011, 09:11 PM
What is the difference between a Class I and Class II splice?

Master-Pull
04-29-2011, 09:29 PM
The classes have to do with what the rope is constructed of, different ropes might require different splices even though they are both a double braid or both a 12 strand etc.

-Alex

opie
04-29-2011, 10:09 PM
Question:

Why choose a Brummel Lock on a thimble vs. the Stitch Lock splice? I see that most repairs just do a straight splice and recommend Lock Stiching the splice, but it seems most manufactures use a Brummel Lock? Is it just because it is easier to do in the field or easire for people to remember how to do it? I would prefer to never stitch a splice so it is easier to undo if/when I want to do something different.

Kris: Thank you for making this video.

My pleasure. I need to redo the straight bury video to properly show the splice like what Alex has demonstrated with his pictoral.

I used to use a locked brummel because it is more secure in the hands of multiple users. It does require that you have acccess to both ends of the line to do, unless you do not intend on using a thimble then you can do it from 1 end. One of the benefits of doing a locked brummel is the splice is shorter, but only by 1 fid. The marlin splice (which is the technical term for passing the rope through itself prior to burying) does carry a bit of the load as well, hence you get away with a shorter bury.

Samson only shows the locked brummel for a Whoopie Sling and some speculate that it is because the locked brummel derates the line more than the 0-10% that is suggested to a straight bury. And since the weak part of a whoopie sling is the tail exit for the adjustable eye, then the derate from the locked brummel doesnt matter. Ive found that to not be true as have others.


What is the difference between a Class I and Class II splice?

Not much difference in the splices, its the number of fids used for each.

Class 1 ropes are olefin, nylon and polyester. This also includes composite ropes which are a combination of any of the above.

Class 2 ropes are Dyneema, Vectran, Technora and Zylon.

However, splicing double braid class 1 is different than splicing double braid class 2. Class 1 and class 2 12 strand are identical, just different number of fids for each.

Beowulf
04-29-2011, 10:17 PM
Kris,

I think you may have answered my next questions. I saw a thimble eye splice where they basically did a stich lock with the bury end. It was marlin spliced back and forth through the working end several times and then burried. I am guessing that although this would indeed lock the eye and keep the line from pulling back out, it would also degrade the line even more than a standard brummel lock.

Beowulf
04-29-2011, 10:43 PM
What diameter of whipping twine should used for the lock stitching on 3/8" amsteel?

I guess for the interest of creating a repository or knowledge we should lay out a matrix for the following sizes.

3/16"
1/4"
5/16"
3/8"
7/16"
1/2"

I saw on the Samson site they recommended the thread be the same diameter as one of the 12 strands in the rope.

opie
04-29-2011, 10:47 PM
Kris,

I think you may have answered my next questions. I saw a thimble eye splice where they basically did a stich lock with the bury end. It was marlin spliced back and forth through the working end several times and then burried. I am guessing that although this would indeed lock the eye and keep the line from pulling back out, it would also degrade the line even more than a standard brummel lock.

There is a splice called an "S brummel" where you essentially run the bury tail back through the standing part several times then bury. Sounds like what you are describing. I don't know if it weakens the line any, but it's still not totally secure. I can see it being temporary if you have no way of lock stitching the splice.

Another issue with a locked brummel and thimble choice is it is difficult to perform a locked brummel and have it stay tight enough to keep a stainless open thimble in the eye. And if the open thimble doesn't have a tight throat, performing a straight bury deforms the bury entrance more than I'm comfortable with.

All in all, with all the steps involved and difficulty of each splice, the straight bury is easier even after lock stitching it.

opie
04-29-2011, 10:54 PM
What diameter of whipping twine should be used for 3/8" amsteel?

I guess for the interest of creating a repository or knowledge we should lay out a matrix for the following sizes.

3/16"
1/4"
5/16"
3/8"
7/16"
1/2"

I saw on the Samson site they recommended the thread be the same diameter as one of the 12 strands in the rope.

I believe what you are referring to is the number of wraps with the whipping. The number of wraps, or width of the whipped area, should equal the diameter if the line being whipped. You can use the same material no matter the size of the line being whipped. Whipping and lock stitching are 2 different things as well.

I prefer regular nylon twine for any lock stitching or whipping. I have used Lash It extensively in the past and am going to give it a try for lock stitching.

Beowulf
04-29-2011, 11:01 PM
I was refering to Lock stiching, but figured regular whipping twine was used.

It is good to know you just use regular nylon twine.

Beowulf
04-29-2011, 11:02 PM
Besides straight bury of an eye and end to end splicing are there any other good ones everyone should master that will cover most field repair needs?

Master-Pull
04-29-2011, 11:14 PM
A direct bury will cover just about everything to get you out of the woods should a synthetic line break.

-Alex

opie
04-29-2011, 11:38 PM
Besides straight bury of an eye and end to end splicing are there any other good ones everyone should master that will cover most field repair needs?

No, those are the basics. If you ruin or lose your thimble, you can use a soft eye with a shackle or hook. Rope on rope, however is not advisable.

Beowulf
03-06-2012, 04:27 AM
I wanted to bring this thread back with thoughts on whipping. I have seen many videos on whipping were you just double the twine and just wrap over itself and then put the working end through the loop and pulling it tight. However, I have seen a finished product where the twine was wrapped 8-12 times but then there were double wraps of twine going perpendicular to those wraps going through the rope. If anyone knows what this is called or has a video, please post it up.

boxing kangaroo
05-26-2013, 11:43 AM
I wanted to bring this thread back with thoughts on whipping. I have seen many videos on whipping were you just double the twine and just wrap over itself and then put the working end through the loop and pulling it tight. However, I have seen a finished product where the twine was wrapped 8-12 times but then there were double wraps of twine going perpendicular to those wraps going through the rope. If anyone knows what this is called or has a video, please post it up.

Do you mean like this? Its called the sailmakers whip and is fairly easy you just need to keep everything neat and tidy.

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