Full Size (LARGE) Family Adventure Rig - Selection Question

[Harmgrissom]

I apologize upfront if this is in the wrong forum - I apologize if it is - I couldn't figure out which vehicle forum would be appropriate.

My wife's mini-van will be paid off shortly, our youngest son is almost six months and I'm looking ahead to the future for some family trips. We have 6 people in our family and while its current TBD - we will certainly top out at 7. I'd like to find a vehicle for some overland/adventure drives that can comfortably carry 7. :Wow1: I know thats a tall order but I have hope/faith/madness that a capable vehicle can be found. This is helped by the fact that all but 2 of the passengers will be children under the age of 8.

To help open the floor - any and all trips will - at least for the foreseeable future - in North America. At that they will most likely be in the United States and Canada. With a large group like this the plan is to be doing a lot of camping out of vehicle. I'd like something extremely capable so more wild trips like Moab is still possible (not sure its thats an option but I'd like it to be).

So seatbelts, storage options, roof rack etc. And um... yeah. So thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[hoaxci5]

Jeep Commander (I'm bias) - I wouldn't say it comfortably seats 7, but it does seat 7, and if they are mostly children it shouldn't be an issue.

It's not huge so you can still run pretty decent trails, but it is defiantly bigger than a wrangler. There isn't a huge after market for them, but you can get whatever you need.

I call mine the yuppy wheeler. If there is any question of capability see video..

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1891737585334&subj=1598361114

[Harmgrissom]

ok regarding the commander (again just something to look at) is there a particular model i ought to look for? i.e. rubicon, sport, limited etc. That video does look pretty cool. what mods did it have?

[hoaxci5]

I've got a 2.25" spacer lift and 255/75/17 Goodyear Silent Armor A/T's.

There are 3 motor and 3 4WD systems. 3.6 V6 (pass..) 4.7 V8 and 5.7 V8 Hemi with MDS. The 2 V8's get roughly the same mileage mine is a 5.7 and I've averaged 14.7 overall. The v6 gets roughly 17 from what I've seen in real world numbers.

As far as 4wd systems, there is Quadra-Trac 1 (no 4 low and only on V6 I think), Quadra-Trac 2 which is 4 low and brake controlled traction assistance, and then Quadra-Drive 2 (which is what I have) which has electronically controlled limited slips front and rear. It can give 100% power to any single tire.

The way to tell which 4wd system it has is by looking for a t-handle next to the shifter, if it doesn't have one it's QT1, if it does then it's either QT2 or QD2. If it's QD2 there is badging closer to the arm rest by the shifter and the rear diff will have 12 bolts instead of 10 (QT2)

There is lots more info available over at www.xk-forums.com if you are really interested.. or just ask here and I'll try to remember to check :ylsmoke:

[Loco-Nomad]

I would look at more comfortable vehicles for your passengers (wife and kids) like a diesel Excursion or older 3/4 ton Suburban. I have 6 in my family, 4 are kids, one with special needs and I just traded my suburban for a 1 ton Dodge Cummins Quad cab pick up. I prefer the pickup for hauling and it fits my current needs for interior space and passenger comfort. The Jeep is just too small for that in my opinion.

[AxeAngel]

Diesel excursion or a ujoint conversion van.

-Sam

[Harmgrissom]

What about vehicles like the Armada or Sequoia? I hear some of the Land Cruiser 100's had 7 seats. I'll admit I love the Hummers. Would love to add a 3rd row seat. Heh.

[hoaxci5]

I'd like something extremely capable so more wild trips like Moab is still possible (not sure its thats an option but I'd like it to be).


This is the part that concerned me with Armada/Sequoia/Expedition/Suburban whatever else.. I looked at them before buying my Commander, and I was worried I'd have bumpers torn off the first time they were offroad. Sure you can put a big lift on them and then maybe be ok, thats why size wise I moved down to the Jeep.

They do make a bracket to install a third row in Wrangler Unlimited also.. but that would be even smaller than the Commander, but probably the most off road capable choice.

[Harmgrissom]

That makes a lot of sense thinking about it. Thanks.

[jonzer12]

X2 on Ford Excursion or a 4x4 fullsize van. 7 seats is not enough. You also need room for 7 people's gear.
Jeep, toyota, etc have nothing large enough. Nobody is going to want to spend days stuck in a commander with 7 people.

Much cheaper to modify for offroad having solid axles, and will handle all that weight with ease.
Have you considered an adventure trailer?

[shortbus4x4]

I am in the same boat as you when it comes to kids. Right now we have a Sequoia which is ok but has no room behind the last row of seats for much. On longer trips I have a tent trailer or hitch mounted cargo carrier. The upside is its alot easier in town for parking and stuff. I have owned a Suburban too which has more cargo room. I would say go for a Suburban, Excursion, or fullsize van. Does it have to be 4x4? You can go quite few places with two wheel drive. If I had to do it all over again I would have gone for a van, plenty of room for gear and passengers. Don't bother with a 1/2 ton, go 3/4 ton or 1 ton.

[Harmgrissom]

I'm thinking that a 4x4 is not a non-negotiable, but its certainly preferred. Gear wise I'm ok with something that gives us "just" 7 seats as I'm NOT against getting and using an off-road trailer. Which would help with gear. Plus, or rather in its place using a tow-hitch hauler. Also a roof rack would be an additional possibility. I don't go completely nuts with my gear and try and keep it as simple as possible i.e. light but realize that may not always be possible.

What would be awesome would be a trailer, and a spare tire carrier mount on the back a la Jeep/Hummer with a rack above the tire and a roof rack. Also a gear rack on the trailer tongue (light weight of course).

Anyways just some musings.

[hoaxci5]

Everything is a compromise, if you go with a Fullsize rig, you can't run tight trails. If you go with a midsize you lose storage and potentially passenger space.

Again just touching on my personal decision, I did not want to lose rough offroad ability, that was first priority of wants, I did however NEED 7 passenger seating. So I decided on the Jeep.

I would write up a need vs want list. It's different for everyone, and the priority ranging for each want item will vary also..

[sseaman]

You could look at 100 series Land Cruiser, but not much room behind the 3rd row. We have an 04 Sequoia and love it. We regularly carry 8 and with a Thule roof carrier can bring a lot of gear along. It is making the transition from the wife's to haul kids to my ride and will hopefully be used more offroad. I am Toyota biased since I have always had good reliability including my 91 LC which I sold with 320k miles 2 years ago and still see running around town.

[BCHauler]

People who own or have owned the 1st gen Ford Expedition seem to like them. Little bit smaller than a Suburban but still 3 rows and reasonably capable.

[4671 Hybrid]

I'm running an 80 series Landcruiser that I added an extra seat belt too (overseas models have them stock but mine is a US model). Anyway, I have 5 kids and I can haul them, my wife and I, and an extra passenger in total comfort. When they're all taller than 5'10 I don't think that'll still be the case but that's 10 years down the road. When we go on longer road trips, we put the car top carrier on the roof and occassionally add a hitch rack.

[Harmgrissom]

So it seems the Land Cruiser and Commander are getting a lot of nods.

My brother sent me a website this weekend for a company which makes a 3rd row seat for the H3. That would expand its occupancy to 7 passengers. Any thoughts on the H3 for expeditioning. :sombrero:


Regarding seat space and gear space - I'd really rather take a trailer and negotiate necessary gear than to decline certain trails/trips etc. based upon the inability of the vehicle to handle it. An adventure trailer is certainly an option that will be considered. If I can find one of the old military trailers everyone always brags about (I forget their M designation) then I may jump on that.

[BCHauler]

Most of the criticism of the H3 seems to focus around poor outward visibilty due to the small windows, and general "Hummer = wanton excess" attitudes. If neither of these are an issue for you and there is an aftermarket 3rd row option, then that sounds like a plan. If you do it please share some pictures. We like pictures.

[Harmgrissom]

well I have never had a problem with the perception of Hummers. More concerned with their capabilities. Especially as any vehicle I get it going to look a lot like a clown car with people continually pouring out of it. I can't see a difference between a 7 passenger SUV with a Hummer badge versus one with a Land Cruiser/Toyota badge. As long as the vehicle goes where I want it to. :coffee:

That said the visibility is something I will need to contemplate. Additionally I'm also very seriously NOT considering the Alpha due to gas mileage. The V8 is awesome and certainly tows the best out of many I've seen thus far (the Commanders in V8 are also right there) but for the loss in gas mileage - reported as serious as 12 MPG to just shy of 15. If the 15 is accurate - thats not so bad. If 12...

Just an FYI this won't happen anytime in the next week or two as this project vehicle is dependent upon my raise at work this fall. If its (fingers crossed & knock on wood) what I HOPE it to be then it will happen before the end of the year. If not then it might have to wait a bit.

Regardless of what I decide, bet money I'll have pics up as I experiment with the options to make it an effective expedition vehicle.

[pskhaat]

I don't have that # of children (bless you) but with you wanting to do the likes of the classic Moab treks, I would think a Toyota Sequoia, here's why:

Trying to remove my Toyota bias, I did not think the Jeep Commander was as big as advertised. The 3rd row seats were markedly narrower than the Cruiser's and fit only 2 persons back there. The large majority of LandCruisers 80 | 100 | 200 series are 8 passenger with a 3-person 3rd row. (Exceptions were a few 80s got only 2 3rd row seatbelts despite the same seat room).

Neither the LCs nor the Commander have any appreciable space behind the 3rd row. As such I've considered both the Excursion and Sequoia both in the past and now. I lean towards the Sequoia-side as the Excursion though beautiful in the diesel and interior volume department left a little to be desired on the tighter trails (IMHO).

The Sequoia has much more room than the LC back there and still seats 8. You'd need to take it pretty easy exiting steep obstacles (e.g. fins & things) or plastic armor a rear bumper for sliding, but it (again IMO) was an easier fit to do these style trails than the Excursion.

With a sufficient roof box (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/44455-Posers-with-Roof-Boxen), you might be able to fit all the junk and children necessities. YMMV.

[4671 Hybrid]

If you're looking at H3's then money probably isn't that big of a deal but just in case, consider the price point of a Landcruiser 80 series. A locked version in good shape can be had in the $6k range. Add to that a roof rack and car top carrier for $100, a winch for $400, skid plates for another $200, and you're looking at a ready to go truck for less than $7k.

That being said, it's hard to argue with an older Suburban in terms of trailer towing capacity, comfort for 7 people, off-road prowess with a cheap locker, aftermarket support, the ability to run a mild lift with 35" tires, and most importantly for frugal people like me, price. Also, if you get a diesel, you'll still be pulling better MPG than vehicles that are considerably smaller.

[mesha]

I had a early 90s suburban and loved it. Solid axle, easy and cheap to lift, tons of room, cheap starting price, fuel injected. I only sold it cause I needed more towing ability adn settled on a 04 cummins 4 door. The cummins is amazing, but probably not big enough.

[hoaxci5]

Just as an FYI on the Commander, I just returned from Moab and did Fins and Things with no issue. Mine is mildly modded, spacer lift and 32" tires. I hit my rear bumper lightly once. I can't comment on other "full size" suvs but I don't think they would have faired as well without significant mods.

[Sock Puppet]

Nothing beats loading the family in a rig and trying it on for size. It's all guess work until your wife is sitting in the passenger giving you the stink-eye because the kids are uncomfortable. Narrow it down to 3 or 4 to test drive, then take them home and load your kids and junk. Yeah, it will be a pain, but not nearly as much as buying the wrong vehicle.

[Mexican_Hippie]

I also have 4 kids (ages 1-9). Two kids in the Jeep TJ was fine. Three was doable with the extra seat belt I added. Four just doesn't work. I'm torn between a 2012 Rubi Wrangler w/ the Pentastar and a 3rd row, and a 89-91 3/4 ton Suburban. The Suburban would be SO much more comfortable, just lots of work to get it where I'd trust it with my family in BFE.

Let us know what you decide...and why.

[Jnich77]

Diesel excursion

-Sam

I would go for a big old full size van, do you really want 7-8 people crammed in anything smaller? then you have to haul gear and have the power to get all of that up a hill.... yeah.. full size van....lol

[Paijanne]

My family used to have a 1998 Chevrolet Suburban and its the only car that I've ever used that could comfortably fit eight people and two dogs (a lab and a bull mastiff, those animals take up a lot of space). We used to take it on all sorts of road trips around the country and through Mexico. It was also exceptionally handy for driving around little league players and all of their gear. They are just useful vehicles, especially when you are driving kids everywhere.

P.S. - They even have six door models now (which I think sounds kind of insane, even though I understand how it could be practical).

[adi]

I guess I was a little spoiled as a kid. Family of 4 in a Suburban, us 2 kids had an entire row to ourselves for the 8+ hour road trips.

Of course both my parents come from large families, and my mother still tells stories of her 9 person family going on trips (some to Nogales to get alcohol. Only allowed 1 bottle per person, and kids counted) in their VW bus, and spending time in Europe with similar sized vehicles that they all crammed into.

I'll echo the votes for a LC 80/100 sized vehicles for passenger space, plus a supply/shelter trailer you can keep at "base camp" when you want to explore off road.

[xpdishn]

Here's a 03 Excursion. It is on a lot, stopped and looked. The doors were open so I hopped up and those are HUGH. Only bad thing is the 6" lift. Seems it could hold as many as you like. :) I have absolutly no (financial) interest in this vehicle. The saleman said it came from Arizona.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=301493753&dealer_id=100030586&car_year=2003&systime=&doors=&model=EXCURSION&search_lang=en&start_year=2003&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type=both&distance=75&min_price=&rdm=1308593543538&drive=&marketZipError=false&advanced=&fuel=&keywords_display=&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2003&showZipError=n&make2=&certified=&engine=&dma=LAS_VEGAS&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&transmission=&default_sort=&max_mileage=&color=&address=89061&sort_type=priceDESC&max_price=&make=FORD&seller_type=d&num_records=25&cardist=47&standard=false&rdpage=thumb

[zukrider]

i vote suburban or excursion. goes diesel in the excursion. pulling a trailer wont always be practical. you have to think that with the seating required, there needs to be gear room to. an excursion has close to 4 feet of space behind the third row seat. burb is close to that too.

if you must stick to the smaller mid size, a 94-96 mitsubishi montero SR will give you 3 rows, good for 7 passengers. all 3 rows are reclinable. an sr has a big sunroof, rear locker, 3 way adjustable shock system, and easy to clean leather. 215 hp 3.5 v6, awd selectable transfer case. there is a guy in cali running 37's on a 3" body lift with some trimming, and wheels in the rubicon. has not broken a shaft yet. he is a friend of offroader, here on the mitsu board. offroader is running a 2" body lift and 35's. i have all stock with 33's. i get 14-16 mpg loaded for camping with the a/c on. 15 unloaded flat towing my samurai in the rocky mountains.

awesome platform, and significantly cheaper than a 80 series. half the price or better than a 100 series.

good luck with your choice.

33's on stock rims
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj104/josephfrank/DSCN1198.jpg
31's
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj104/josephfrank/monterosr.jpg

link to offroader's (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/24947-My-latest-mitsu-build-up...)

link to LAoutbacktrails build (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/55644-1995-Montero-SR-Build)

[Harmgrissom]

I've always liked the Montero's. Didn't realize they had 3rd row capabilities.

Honestly this purchase "MAY" be closer than expected as my wife's van is starting to gasp. :yikes:

While a Montero wouldn't be a bad choice a friend in town has really been showing off :Wow1: with his 08 Sequoia. :drool: Mild lift - 33"s. yummy indeed.

But we'll see. I'd prefer my original time frame of another year or so.

[SlowChevy07]

I would look at more comfortable vehicles for your passengers (wife and kids) like a diesel Excursion or older 3/4 ton Suburban. I have 6 in my family, 4 are kids, one with special needs and I just traded my suburban for a 1 ton Dodge Cummins Quad cab pick up. I prefer the pickup for hauling and it fits my current needs for interior space and passenger comfort. The Jeep is just too small for that in my opinion.

I am in the same boat as you are..... almost exactly! I've got 4 kids, one with special needs, and am currently driving a Suburban. I'm looking to get something else to turn into an Expedition Rig (Burb is an 07, yay crappy IFS). I've been checking out the older 89-91 model Suburbans, as well as the excursion, some newer double cab pickups, LR Discoverys, and a few Land Cruisers.

I just can't make up my mind. I want this rig to go anywhere, PERIOD, meaning I want it to be able to get into some crap (if I decide), and have enough to get out. I realize the benefits of the smaller SUVs, but can't seem to break myself of the Larger sized ones.

I love having all the extra room, BUT, don't want it to be the downfall of the rig while out somewhere in the wilderness.

I want diesel, but it's not a necessity. I do want a V8.




Any advice to solve this dilemma?????

[pskhaat]

First, may we please change your username?

[SlowChevy07]

First, may we please change your username?

You're the moderator, you can do whatever you need :)

How about


SlowChevy07

[mountainpete]

You're the moderator, you can do whatever you need :)

How about


SlowChevy07


Name changed.

[weberjeff]

I am biased towards the Excursion/ Suburban. I run a Diesel Excursion with a three kids ( all in kids seats) and still have room for more in the middle seats. You can also pull out the third row and fold down the middle seats and have almost a 8' bed to put stuff in when you don't have the family to haul. I just got back from running around in Steamboat Springs, CO and had plenty of room for all of the gear and the family. I do run a cargo carrier on top for the camping and fishing gear. I still am working on the lift options to bring it up a little so I can fit some 285s on it. Also at 17 mpg, tons of power and a 44 gal tank, you can reach out and do about 800 miles on a tank. I admit I am a Land Cruiser fan but the Ex fell in my lap and I couldn't refuse the offer for my F-350.

[SlowChevy07]

I am biased towards the Excursion/ Suburban. I run a Diesel Excursion with a three kids ( all in kids seats) and still have room for more in the middle seats. You can also pull out the third row and fold down the middle seats and have almost a 8' bed to put stuff in when you don't have the family to haul. I just got back from running around in Steamboat Springs, CO and had plenty of room for all of the gear and the family. I do run a cargo carrier on top for the camping and fishing gear. I still am working on the lift options to bring it up a little so I can fit some 285s on it. Also at 17 mpg, tons of power and a 44 gal tank, you can reach out and do about 800 miles on a tank. I admit I am a Land Cruiser fan but the Ex fell in my lap and I couldn't refuse the offer for my F-350.

I'm leaning towards an Excursion now after doing some digging. They've got all the room I want, solid axles, diesel, and great fuel capacity.

[weberjeff]

I'm leaning towards an Excursion now after doing some digging. They've got all the room I want, solid axles, diesel, and great fuel capacity.

My advice would to look for one that has been taken care of. There are plenty of Excursion owners out there. If you go with the 6.0L Diesel, just make sure you get it checked out and have a thorough review of the engine. Go with a 2005, if possible in with the 6.0. If you can find a 2002 - 2003 with a 7.3L Diesel then you will have a strong reliable engine. I like what I have and look forward to building it into a family adventure vehicle that can tow a small trailer for our outings.

[SlowChevy07]

My advice would to look for one that has been taken care of. There are plenty of Excursion owners out there. If you go with the 6.0L Diesel, just make sure you get it checked out and have a thorough review of the engine. Go with a 2005, if possible in with the 6.0. If you can find a 2002 - 2003 with a 7.3L Diesel then you will have a strong reliable engine. I like what I have and look forward to building it into a family adventure vehicle that can tow a small trailer for our outings.

Is there anything in particular that I should look out for? I'm not familiar with Diesels at all!

[weberjeff]

Is there anything in particular that I should look out for? I'm not familiar with Diesels at all!

If you decide to lock in on the Excursion Diesel then you will want to take a look at some of the other sites and start learning about the maintainence required to keep your diesel reliable. Oil and Fuel filtering is critical to the 6.0L. Differnt forums out there go into great detail on the diesel world. Some sites to review are
Ford Truck Enthusist --http://www.ford-trucks.com/
The Diesel Stop -- http://www.thedieselstop.com/

Ford Truck Enthusist has a specific Excursion set of forums that can be a good reference for the Excursion itself. It can be a good reference and some good ideas on how to improve the suspension and other good things you can do with the truck. Since the diesel engines are shared with the 2000 - 2005 Superduty Pickups (F-250, F-350), The Diesel Stop has both 7.3L and 6.0L forums to learn about the strenghts and weaknesses of both.

[tribeof5]

Okay so here is my suggestion. My wife and I have 5 boys. Youngest is 5 and oldest is 13. We drove a 4x4 Excursion for eight years. All the while, we wanted a 4x4 diesel van. Finally found one in our budget last April. Best purchase I have ever made. My boys have been camping since they were first born. Took my oldest when he was four months to Colorado on a 30 day trip. We have put just over 33,000 miles on our van in the last 16 months. Traveling in it is great since they have all the space they need. And don't forget the wireless headphones for the tv system. LOL. Also a huge part for those highway miles. Good luck and enjoy your adventures.

[BoilermakerSteve]

Hi harm,

We have a 2000 Excursion with a 7.3 L PowerStroke Diesel. We have four kids ages 10 to 17. The Excursion has 316,000 miles on it and I don't hesitate for a second to head across the nation with it. Here are my thoughts regarding an Excursion for the usages you have described.

Things I think are positive:
1. It is the largest SUV built. Tons of cargo space and seats 8 comfortably
2. F250/350 Chassis
3. Solid axles
4. The 7.3 is a great engine, a lot of people are also happy with their 6.0 L engines, even though the reputation is not good
5. Easy to modify as many F-series mods fit the Excursion
6. You can put a huge roof top rack on it, if you want
7. 4WD Hi and Lo
8. Wheelbase is short compared to crew cab pick ups (similar to a standard cab, long bed pick up)
9. We get 17 mpg over all types of driving conditions over long time periods
10. Easy 700 mile tank capacity (44 gallons)
11. The Excursion has a one piece driveshaft, no carrier bearing.

Things I think you might want to improve:
1. The Excursion stock springs are softer and shorter than the pick up springs. Many people upgrade to the F-series pick up springs gaining 1.5 to 2.0 inches of lift and a more stable ride. Of course, many go with 3 to 10 inch lifts from the aftermarket.
2. Some come with limited slip differentials, but most have open differentials
3. You need to upgrade the transmission cooler on the 7.3 L engine to the one the used on the 6.0 L engine, it is about four times the size of the stock 7.3L one.
4. May need or want to add swaybar to the rear axle


We take our Excursion into the National Forests and other public lands, but mostly on maintained roads, some just two tracks with occasional washouts. It has all the power we need and the torque is amazing. Using 4WD Lo makes things effortless. We run Michelin MTX mud and snow tires, nothing geared for the trail and do fine. We air down to 30 to 35 psi on the trail (run around 58 psi on the highway).

I think width and height are the things that will limit you on true trails, probably turning radius too. I am not a trail driver, but I think approach and departure angles and clearance can be addressed

My Excursion weighs around 8,300 lbs with two people. I figure we run around 9,500 with all the kids a cargo. So it isn't a minor presence in the boonies. 10,000 lbs is the official limit Excursion

I have driven Suburbans and prefer the Excursion, but I have a bias towards Fords. The ones I have driven or half-tons, you definitely want to go 3/4 ton, if you go with a Suburban.

I hope you find what works for you and your family. I certainly enjoy the size, comfort and cargo space of the Excursion. We have had it for 8 years.

Steve

My family is getting closer to the leaving the nest stage, so I daydream more about repurposing the Excursion into a expedition vehicle for me and my wife, and maybe the younger two kids. A roof top tent and kitchen kit in the cargo area...

[Harmgrissom]

I'm seeing a lot of these for sale in Az for seemingly decent prices - under 15k. I'm seeing a huge array of Engine options
5.4
5.8
6.0
etc.

Obviously this is a mix of gas/diesel. Now I've heard that maintenance for the Diesel is more involved. Maybe school me a bit on engine pros & cons?

[BoilermakerSteve]

I'm seeing a lot of these for sale in Az for seemingly decent prices - under 15k. I'm seeing a huge array of Engine options
5.4
5.8
6.0
etc.

Obviously this is a mix of gas/diesel. Now I've heard that maintenance for the Diesel is more involved. Maybe school me a bit on engine pros & cons?


Hi Harm,

If you are asking about Excursion engines there are four that I know of available:
5.4 L gas (V8), I think it is only available in the 2WD version
6.8 L gas (V10), the standard gas engine (I don't know anything about it, other than it is quiet) :)
7.3 L PowerStroke Diesel, 2000 to mid-2003. (I have 316,000 miles on this motor)
- I think they moved away from this motor to keep the EPA happy.
- It is a great motor, very reliable. International has their version in busses, delivery trucks, etc.
- The motor system has a few minor things that are probably already addressed on anything you would buy (cam position sensor, leaky fuel filter bowl drain valve, and the valve cover wiring harness connector)
- I get 17 mpg over a wide range of driving and high speed limits
- Some people don't like the transmission behind this motor, mine has lasted over 300K miles.
- In 2001 there was a mechanical diode in the transmission that caused problems for part of that year's run

6.0 L PSD mid-2003 through 2005 (everything is hearsay)
- blown head gaskets are probably the complaint I have heard most
- more power than the 7.3
- worse mileage
- most say the torque shift transmission is better, but it does have a more complicated design
- I see the 7.3 v 6.0 arguments in the Excursion forums and most people defend their own engine. There are several very happy 6.0 owners. But, most like the 7.3 better.
- I would suggest checking out the service history on a 6.0. To me higher miles would indicate it is a more stable motor.

"5.8" must be a typo for a 6.8 L V10

Hope this helps.

steve

[Harmgrissom]

Thanks for the info Steve. I think right now we're gonna set the Diesel option to the side since we won't be towing anything serious, or regularly enough to make the cost of maintenance a value. Probably going to go with something bigger than the 5.4 - looking at the 6.0-.8.

That said if a Diesel comes along with great mileage for a great price we'll probably make the jump.

I was ready to buy one this last weekend honestly. But unfortunately due to an unexpected hospital visit (everyone is fine more or less, nothing major) we're gonna have to put this on hold likely till January. At which point expect to see an update accordingly! :smiley_drive:

Obviously if anyone disagrees with the choice of the Excursion and wants to prevent their alternate full size option - please don't hesitate to make your point as I'm still open minded, but very focused on the big FORD right now.

[Awkragt]

Just to throw out another option. You should sit in an LR3. It's got seating for 7 with the same great visiblity and off road heritage at the Jeeps. The ability to go from low to the ground for my wife's grocery getting to 4 in lift for the rocks is really cool. Off road the LR3 is going to fit a lot more places than a full size. Definitely worth your while to sit in one and test drive.

We've got a 2-dr JK right now with 1 kid, and once we add one more kids I'm probably going to go LR3, then a few more kids go with an offroad trailer.

[Harmgrissom]

Awkragt - The LR3 is a great option - a friend of mine had one and it was extremely capable and comfortable - unfortunately as it got older the sheer cost of repairs is a turn off. I don't know that its a major issue for people prepared for that kind of cost - but for me it was a pretty serious turn off.

[Awkragt]

- unfortunately as it got older the sheer cost of repairs is a turn off.

Thats why I haven't pulled the trigger on one. It difficult to determine the true cost on the Land Rovers.

This Diesel Excursion sounds cool, especially if you can go 300K out of one and get 17 MPG. My neighboor's got an F250 jacked up 2 ft with 40in tires. You could probably do the same to an Excursion?

[JPK]

The V10 gets crappy milage, and that is not only costly but limits it's range. The diesel maintenance requirement is not too bad a trade off and your range will be improved 40%.

We have a fleet of Ford desel chassis cabs, the 6.0's aren't horrible, but we still have 7.3's running with 100's of k's of miles on them. The Ford fuel tanks since the switch to the 6.0 have been a real pita, with delamination occurrring all to frequently. The delamination reveals itself when the truck won't run, and it produces fine rust particles that irreparably clog the in-tank filter and pump. When one goes it often also requires new injectors. Replacement Ford tanks are as likely as the oem tank to delaminate. We finally began switching to aluminum after market tanks custom made to nearly oem dimensions - as close as welding shop can get it.

Don't overlook the diesel Suburbans. Some hate the engine, but when they're trouble free they seem trouble free "forever".

Seems to me that for what you describe you need the seating plus the cargo room of either the Excursion or the Suburban. I have a Suburban, my third, and I love it and its predeccessors, but I'd have a diesel Excursion if my wife would have tolerated the Excusion. She had trouble getting it up our driveway, which was tight, at our last house.

JPK

[Harmgrissom]

Thanks for the input guys - definetly a lot of food for thought. I'm still leaning to the Excursion. But something my wife mentioned to me last night thats got me all kinds of excited.

We don't want to take out a car loan as we're trying to stop using credit/debt. So we want to pay cash. It may take a year or so to save up the 10-15k for an Excursion.

So last night her suggestion was - "Why don't we just buy another Jeep Cherokee in the meantime and caravan?" :wings: :smiley_drive:

So... it may not happen in a month or two but fingers crossed we'll do that for a while leading up to a big purchase for a full size family rig.

-
Regarding the 4x4 Van - I'd need to see some more regarding them to really consider it honestly - we had regular full sized vans all growing up and I honestly don't trust them. So I'd have to see them in action to even consider it.

[r_w]

My vote is still a full-size van. The COG is an issue if you are going extreme, but they will go further than most people realize.

Seating capacity in a vehicle is like sleeping capacity in a tent--the rating is for just people shoulder to shoulder, if you want stuff inside or comfort you need more space.

[nely]

Whats not to trust about the van?

There available with the same engines and transmissions as the f-series trucks. The 4x conversions are done well. Ujoint makes a great diy 4x kit (thats what i have on my 97 diesel van) its all the same. I feel the ride quality is great. I recently drove a 2005 f series and i gotta say, it was awful. To bounce over the freeway, the 6.0 lacked power in my opinion.

The cog isnt bad on the lifted van. It hanldea great with my 6" lift and 37s. If you stick with the 4" & 33s itll handle even better and have a lower cog.

I have the diesel and i know another guy that has the v10 in his equally equipped van. He gets about 2/3 to 1/2 the mpg i get. He says hes about 8-10 & ive been averaging 15 mpg. Theres some maintenance i need to do thatll improve that, im sure.

All in all im glad i purchased the van and started the 4x conversion. I have more than enough room for my family and gear. Its me, my wife, and 2yr old son. In your situation id look at the ext van. Youll have plenty of room for your family, gear, and have a bed inside. I had a 96 extended van that i started 4x then someone crashed into it. Now i have the 97 rb. I like the ext due to the extra room. The way i want to set up the van the rb is small, but ill deal with that.

What other concerns do you have?

[Heading Out]

I have to vote for the EXT 4X4 diesel passenger van, with a roof rack. Lots of room for little kids and all the stuff that comes with them, the ability to tow a small trailer to leave at base camp now.

Later It can evolve as the kids grow, to tow a larger more comfortable base camp (trailer) and still seat the kids and the friends you know they will want to come along.

Better to have enough space now, with the ability to grow, than to have them all crammed in and grumpy on a long drive.

That will kill the fun and the possibility of future trips in a hurry.

my .02

[78Bronco]

Very happy with our roomy, capable, reliable and safe ***** Ford Expedition. A lot of vehicles have 7 or 8 seats but very cramped, like my montero, but the fullsize 8 passengers have real room, thus real comfort.

[ktm360mx]

It's funny- I stumbled on this thread after posting something similar in the general vehicle modification area.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/76547-9-Passenger-Overland-Safari-Vehicle-for-a-Family-Guy

We are one step ahead of you. We have 5 kids and have outgrown the suburban. What's next for us? I don't know. Here's what we did/are doing:

if you have 4 kids and are only doing day trips and want to off road- go with the suburban. That's what we have and love it. Skip the excursion- no head rests in the back row for accident protection, the gas engines get 10-12mpg (you may get 15 on the highway) and the diesel is dismal. I own the 7.3 and had a 6.0 truck- 7.3 is great, the 6.0 is not. Skip a diesel unless you tow heavy and frequently. Diesel is more expensive to operate and a lot more expensive to maintain. 7.3's have 4 gallon oil changes alone. Diesel is only good if you tow. I prefer diesel and have a 7.3 truck and a dodge 5.9. great vehicles, but we drive the suburban because it's less expensive to operate. Don't forget- the 7.3's are very loud-certainly not for wildlife viewing.....

On the other hand, the suburban does the same thing, slightly less cargo room, but will support a family of 7 on day trips (with or without a roof rack). If you are not doing super hard core stuff (and most don't), the IFS on the suburban is fine. I've driven up Rose Garden in Moab with a IFS Suburban. BTW- if you are going with the 7 seat option- you need a 2003-2006 suburban- the back seat is not split like on the 2007 and up. The 7th person will always be sitting on the crack in the 07's -- not fun!

We've lived your plight- with #7 on the way- you will need room for gear - the sub or excursion can do it. IF you overnight, get a BIG roof rack and you can still do it fine. If you want to bring a friend- you are out of luck. That's where we are at.

Our next vehicle may be a variant of this: http://www.prefix.com/Trekker/