Help me choose an off road and expedition vehicle [Archive]

Nullifier

01-04-2006, 05:29 PM

Well we used to have an Xterra. I hated it. Heavy, uncomfortable seats, fuel mileage sucked, roof rack was to high, and it was underpowered and had a bad tendency to hydroplane. It was however reliable, it came with a first aid kit, and it looked cool. These are my impressions as a former owner take it with a grain of salt.

I know there are alot of people intersted in them as a poormans landrover so to say. I would say no matter what you get if the offroad package doesn't come with a locker forget it. You are going to upgrade the suspension anyway. Even then if it's 2k for that package you can add a locker for less so unless there are some other gadgets that you can only get in that package that will make it wirth wild I would skip it.

My choices would be Tacoma pre 2K5 double cab, Used 80 series land cruiser, Trooper, or for 25 you could buy just about any old vehicle and rebuild it to meet you needs like any 55/60/62 series cruiser, seriers type land rover, etc

bigreen505

01-04-2006, 08:27 PM

Thanks Nullifier, good points.

I would say no matter what you get if the offroad package doesn't come with a locker forget it. You are going to upgrade the suspension anyway. Even then if it's 2k for that package you can add a locker for less so unless there are some other gadgets that you can only get in that package that will make it wirth wild I would skip it.

Well, the offroad package on the X is about $5k and comes with nothing that wouldn't get pitched anyway -- pretty expensive locker!

My choices would be Tacoma pre 2K5 double cab, Used 80 series land cruiser, Trooper, or for 25 you could buy just about any old vehicle and rebuild it to meet you needs like any 55/60/62 series cruiser, seriers type land rover, etc

Do you have anything against the new Tacos besides the price? I'm concerned about dropping $20k on a used Land Cruiser with 150k mi that gets 14 mpg. A Trooper may still be a possibility, but I haven't found one yet. This vehicle will be my daily driver too.

calamaridog

01-05-2006, 10:40 AM

BigG,

As I see it, you have a ton of choices. Lot's of pros and cons for all of them. Everyone will pimp their personal preferences.

25k will get you a vehicle in good condition and plenty of accessories.

What do you need the vehicle to do? How many passengers and how much equipment do you need to move? How heavily do you intend to modify the vehicle? Many vehicles have very weak aftermarket support.

I suggest you determine all your needs and then narrow the list down. After that, test drive the vehicles you are looking into.

So just as an example, you could get yourself a 1999 UZJ100 Land Cruiser (with factory rear locker), full OME suspension, front and rear bumpers, winch, and roof rack for under the 25k budget.

bigreen505

01-05-2006, 01:18 PM

Thanks to everyone who responded. Here is a quick update so far, the original Trooper I mentioned is out, it was an old ad that was never deleted. The Tacoma is out because the 4-door with the extra short bed won't have enough storage length in the bed and the the other option is a 140" wheelbase, which is way too long for my tastes.

BigG,

As I see it, you have a ton of choices. Lot's of pros and cons for all of them. Everyone will pimp their personal preferences.

25k will get you a vehicle in good condition and plenty of accessories.

What do you need the vehicle to do? How many passengers and how much equipment do you need to move? How heavily do you intend to modify the vehicle? Many vehicles have very weak aftermarket support.

Thanks Calmaridog, great questions.

This will be my primary vehicle, daily driver and off-road adventurer. Passenger load is at minimum two people plus two dogs and at maximum three people, one baby and two dogs. I am a photographer so I need to move a fair bit of equipment, though I can't imagine ever being out for more than two weeks at a shot, 4-5 days is the usual max. I can currently fit gear for two along with the dogs in my 1990 Pathfinder without any problem, so it is not like I pack the kitchen sink.

I don't intend to modify the vehicle any more than necessary, but I don't know enough about anything I am considering to really know what that means. My Pathfinder gets me where I need to go with a 2.5" lift, 31x10.5 tires and a lot of skid plates. I wish it had front and reat lockers. I'm not sure what I would need to get similar approach/departure/breakover angles from a Cruiser, maybe 33x10.5 (or metric equivalent) and a 2" lift plus f/r lockers and probably bumpers as well.

So just as an example, you could get yourself a 1999 UZJ100 Land Cruiser (with factory rear locker), full OME suspension, front and rear bumpers, winch, and roof rack for under the 25k budget.

If you would so kindly point me to where I could find one of those with reasonably low miles I would be so very thankful.
:bowdown:

chet

01-05-2006, 03:57 PM

I don't understand you say you can fit everything in a pathfinder but the box on a tacoma is too small?

Also check out the frontier 4 door you can get the nismo package and wouldn't need to modify it at all.

I like the landcruisers though gas mileage sucks!

Look at this one! Already set up!

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=73008 :jumping:

bigreen505

01-05-2006, 05:28 PM

I don't understand you say you can fit everything in a pathfinder but the box on a tacoma is too small?

Maybe I should clairfy, this truck will proverbially wear many hats. I can fit the gear I need in the Pathy, though most of the gear is for lightweight backpacking, so it is small. However, I also spend a lot of time on bike, both road bikes and mountain bikes, and need to be able to easily fit two bikes in the back. I don't think I can do that on the extra short bed Tacomas with a cap on it. With a little creativity, I was able to fit two people, two dogs, two bikes and gear for a long weekend in the back of the 1990 Pathfinder.

Also check out the frontier 4 door you can get the nismo package and wouldn't need to modify it at all.

I will thanks, though I have to admit that the new ones just don't seem to be screwed together as well as the old ones. Perhaps it is just my imagination, but that is one of my concerns with the Xterra.

I like the landcruisers though gas mileage sucks!

Me too, but same concern. I spoke with someone very knowledgeable this morning who said maintenance is frequently neglected on the FJ80s and LX 450s and if I should go that route to budget about $2k-$4k for repairs. Also, the 80's don't seem to have enough power to get up the mountain highways in Colorado very gracefully, so if I go with a Cruiser it probably has to be the 100.

What do you all thing about a 2002 4Runner with low miles. They cost about the same as a new Xterra and come with a 7/70 powertrain warranty. Is it still a viable option or just way overpriced for what they are?

Thank you all for the help!

chet

01-05-2006, 06:03 PM

I like the new 4runners friends have one and it flys! A little overpriced but you get it back in resale later on.

I went and test drove a new Xterra wit the new engine and was really impressed. Its still too much cash for me though! :confused:

Nullifier

01-05-2006, 08:35 PM

I guess what I like about the plder Taco is the size. The double cab is plenty big for 4 adults. It's narrow width is easy to drive both around town and on the trails. The power and additional size of the '05 is handy if you pack alot of stuff but the added wieght means you'll have a harder working drive train, and more chance of breakage. Plus their is not a great availability of parts available. If your in east bumble you maight be screwed on geting parts to billy bobs garage ya know.

My though on an older 80/60 is that you can pick them up relatively inexpensive. Finding a 60 for under 10k is easy. Then you have say 15K to improve it. paint, interior, motor etc. By the time your done spending 15k it would be a very reliable rig and built the way you want it. either chevy motor or toyota. This direction however would onlybe recommended if you can do most of the work. Either yourself or being able to organize wrenchathons with other cruiser heads.

I really like the trooper for some reason I know scott can give you better feed back since he has/had one. I guess because the flat roof is lower for racks etc. I personally it rives better but that's my opinion which we all know about that! LOL!!!

Just go out and drive alot of vehicles. realy think about what is essential to your needs, not your hopes and dreams. I find more often then not most people are buying vehicles in this country to big for what they need. Hence the need for v-8 engines dana 60 axles etc. Now if you are building extreme vehicles these things are important, but a rig that is a daily driver is probably never going to see extreme duty since you have to drive to work on monday.

Make no mistake I want a double cab taco with 3.4 motor, But my regular cab 2.7 meets my needs. Plus it gets better mileage, is lighter which means less chance of breakage, and the shorter wheel base is better on tough trails. Now in 3 years when my wife and I are ready to start having kids. I will get a double cab with about 75-100k on it. Take all the stuff of my reg cab, move it over to the d-cab and sell the reg cab taco. This way I can keep all the suspension and stuff I have invested in. Economy of scale is lost on americans for the most part That's why you do not see the vehicles we drive in other countries and vice versa.

bigreen505

01-05-2006, 09:36 PM

If your in east bumble you maight be screwed on geting parts to billy bobs garage ya know.

You know it wasn't that long ago that Moab was East Bumble. A friend of mine at the time had a Mazda pickup that broke down. The mechanic looked at it, scratched his head and said "Muzada, huh? I think mah dad saw one a them once."

My though on an older 80/60 is that you can pick them up relatively inexpensive. Finding a 60 for under 10k is easy. Then you have say 15K to improve it. paint, interior, motor etc. By the time your done spending 15k it would be a very reliable rig and built the way you want it. either chevy motor or toyota. This direction however would onlybe recommended if you can do most of the work.

That's a good thought and something I would like to do in a perfect world. The reality is that I don't have the time, skills or patience for it and I need a truck that can do double duty a daily driver/family hauler/expedition rig.

I would love to hear from Scott more about the Trooper. I'm a bit concerned about reliability, though you both seem to have enjoyed good luck with them. I know I need to go drive a bunch of vehicles, but I would really like to narrow it down first. Also, what a stock truck feels like driving around a city has little bearing on what it will be like with an ARB suspension blasting along some dirt road fully loaded at night -- you know the road where you are not exactly sure where you are coming from or where you are going, but you need to be home by noon and now it is 2 a.m.

Just go out and drive alot of vehicles. realy think about what is essential to your needs, not your hopes and dreams. I find more often then not most people are buying vehicles in this country to big for what they need. Hence the need for v-8 engines dana 60 axles etc. Now if you are building extreme vehicles these things are important, but a rig that is a daily driver is probably never going to see extreme duty since you have to drive to work on monday.

I think I have pretty well outlined my needs, but maybe I'm still trying to sort it all out in my head. My dad has a Suburban and that is just about the coolest highway gear hauler in existance, but I worry that even a 100 series Land Cruiser is too big for my driving skills on a shelf road.

So what do I want? Everything mentioned above and earlier, with a long enough cargo space to fit two bikes (that would be 64" from rear wheel to brake lever with fron wheels removed on the short one, the bike with the aero bars is a foot longer) inside, protected from the rail, hail, rocks and bugs or accomodate two adults, two kids and two dogs plus gear (trying to think long term here). The Tacoma and Frontier would be ideal if they were about six inches longer. An Xterra, 4Runner (2002 era), or Discovery with a roof basket could handle the task, though maybe not gracefully. A Trooper or Landcruiser could do it with one hand tied behind their backs, but have issues with hidden expenses, potential reliability issues, bad gas mileage or some combination of the above.

Make no mistake I want a double cab taco with 3.4 motor, But my regular cab 2.7 meets my needs. Plus it gets better mileage, is lighter which means less chance of breakage, and the shorter wheel base is better on tough trails. Now in 3 years when my wife and I are ready to start having kids. I will get a double cab with about 75-100k on it. Take all the stuff of my reg cab, move it over to the d-cab and sell the reg cab taco. This way I can keep all the suspension and stuff I have invested in. Economy of scale is lost on americans for the most part That's why you do not see the vehicles we drive in other countries and vice versa.

I understand what you are saying completely. However, where you want to be in three years is where I am now. I don't have a huge budget and my wife gets a say in this decision too since she will be spending a lot of time in it and money on it. There are no parts I can move from the Pathfinder besides my iPod, rack and hitch ball. I'm not trying to be rude in any way, just point out that as good as your plan sounds it really doesn't apply to me. Or if it does I have completely missed how. We probably won't have another kid for a few years, but I know from this time around that when kids come, both time and money become rare and valuable.

That is why I am trying to do this once and have a truck that will last me for the next several years. Is that where I am going wrong?

datrupr

01-05-2006, 10:24 PM

You can not go wrong with the Trooper then. It is a great daily driver as mine is, Scott says that it actually performs better with the OME set up. I havew 107K on mine and it does not leak a drop af anything, and the only failure I have had was a starter failed on me in town. It has yet to let me down, they are cheap to buy, aftermarket is not great, but there is support and it is not all that expensive. The engine is quirky, but if you know how to deal with the quirks then you will not have any problem. JMO.

bigreen505

01-05-2006, 10:38 PM

The engine is quirky, but if you know how to deal with the quirks then you will not have any problem. JMO.

I've heard that from a lot of people now. Care to elaborate on what the quirks are and work arounds for them?

Thanks!
Bill

jeffryscott

01-06-2006, 01:52 AM

I too once had a Trooper. I put Old Man Emu shocks on it and better tires (265-75/16) and it was a great vehicle. Good off-road, good on the road. Reliable as anything out there.

The engine can burn a bit of oil (one quart every 1,000 miles) which is considered normal by Isuzu. Using a lighter oil, 5w30 Mobil 1, seemed to help.

since they aren't too common, parts could be an issue down the road, depending upon where you are.

Gas mileage was reasonable - about 15 in town, 17 or 18 on highway - and the 3.5liter engine was plenty powerful for me.

If I had kept it (traded straight across for a Land Rover Discovery) I probably would have added Old Man Emu springs and cranked the torsion bar up front for a bit more lift.

You can get supports for a roof rack and use the factory holes up top (still have a set somewhere I never installed) and that gets you into a variety of aftermarket racks or custom racks.

All in all, I put over 40K on mine in less than two years with no problems.

Good luck with the decision,

Jeff

BajaTaco

01-06-2006, 02:56 AM

You have a tough bill to fill. I don't think you will quite get all of what you are looking for in one perfect vehicle:

Carry multiple passengers, dogs
Carry bikes and gear (bikes inside vehicle)
short-mid wheelbase
Good fuel economy (unless you consider less than 20 mpg good?)My guess is that you will probably compromise first on the fuel economy, then the wheelbase, and lastly the passenger/cargo space. 25K is a tough price range to meet when considering adding modifications that can add up in a hurry (lockers, tires, armor, lift, etc). So that would almost have to dictate the purchase of a used vehicle if you didn't want to have payments to make. Like calamaridog said, people will pimp their own personal preferences, and I am no exception. For the sake of wanting to get the best chance for a reliable used vehicle that meets your specs, I would probably look at Toyotas first. Based on what you said though, the Tacoma is out, so that leaves the 4runner or Landcruiser/Lexus. The latter will definitely cost you more fuel but will otherwise probably be perfect for your needs. There are lots of other options too, but I would just stick with the Toyotas because that is what I already know. I'm not saying that you should though. The Isuzu and Nissan, or even a good full-size with a diesel might be cool, but I have no idea what the market is on those.

HOWEVER, I would do whatever I could to get into a new vehicle if possible. Quite frankly, I think all of the current offerings fall short in one way or another, but I would still like the advantage of a new vehicle if it were me. If I had to get a new vehicle now (based on your specs), and was trying to keep the price reasonable, I would look at the Tacoma d-cab 4x4 longbed. $25,615 base MSRP. Yea, the wheelbase is too long and it would be a heavy pig loaded up, but it fits the bill otherwise and would be pretty much ideal with a shell on the back. I would also consider the Xterra. The 4runner is too expensive for the budget. I also think the new FJ Cruiser is going to be a blast, but it might be too small for your specs. You would probably be able to carry the bikes, dogs, and 2 people, but not 3 or 4 people, plus dogs and bikes. The Jeep Rubicon Unlimited would be great, but also out of the budget.

bigreen505

01-06-2006, 03:58 AM

You have a tough bill to fill. I don't think you will quite get all of what you are looking for in one perfect vehicle:

Carry multiple passengers, dogs
Carry bikes and gear (bikes inside vehicle)
short-mid wheelbase
Good fuel economy (unless you consider less than 20 mpg good?)

Bikes only get carried with two people. As for the fuel economy, you drive a truck long enough it warps your perception and expectations. If actually get 20 mpg on a tank I'm extatic! I know it is a tough bill to fill, that is why I am asking everyone for suggestions. Also, I refuse to accept that I am the only looking for this.

Based on what you said though, the Tacoma is out ...

Yeah that really bums me out, I just needed a few more inches of bed length.

, so that leaves the 4runner or Landcruiser/Lexus. The latter will definitely cost you more fuel but will otherwise probably be perfect for your needs.

They do seem to be on the short list, particularly a 2002 4Runner if I can find one. I feel a bit like Goldilocks "this one is too big, that one is too small." The 100 series Land Cruisers seem too big, like I said, I'm not sure that I have the skills to drive something that large off road.

HOWEVER, I would do whatever I could to get into a new vehicle if possible. Quite frankly, I think all of the current offerings fall short in one way or another ...

Maybe I should check out the Jeep. I could make one happed, but it would definitely be tight. Maybe you are right about going new, especially since I plan on keeping it for a while, which would probably lead me back to the Xterra.

One problem I have with Nissan is they don't seem to learn from their mistakes. The alternator and starter still sit below the engine which means as soon as the truck hits water (or very dense and deep snow) they get soaked, not a good thing.

Again, thanks to all of you for your input.

calamaridog

01-06-2006, 08:34 AM

BigG,

I like the UZJ100 because it is a very nice used vehicle for the money. My truck cost $55,000 new in 2000. I bought it in 2005 for $22,000. The value on these things goes down more than on a Tacoma or 4runner for example.

With 80,000 mi. this was a much nicer vehicle than any new car or truck my wife and I have ever had. Comparing used to brand new, this Land Cruiser is better than say a "new" Jeep (which we also have).

There are compromises sure. Did I need heated leather seats? No, but I love the bun toasters now:sunny: Some of the stuff is "fluff" but its not breaking so whatever.

This thing is big and heavy. It gets crappy mileage. It has a V8. It wheels ok, the length is not so bad and the turning radius is good for a larger SUV. It is wider than I'm used to but not much more wide than a Tacoma.

Tons of room for all your stuff. No question about that.

Safety? For the family, etc. this is a very safe vehicle to drive around in. I'm not worried about my family when we drive down the street. Basic off road armour, suspension, etc. and this thing is a real tank.

You can fit the car seat in the middle row center position and 2 adults can sit comfortably next to the car seat. This was not possible in a Tacoma, which is what drove me away from the Tacoma.

Anyways, give one a drive and see what you think. My friend just bought a 1999 UZJ100 with 80,000 mi. for $18,000. The other vehicle he looked at was a 2003 4 door Tacoma 4x4 with 70,000 mi. Guess how much they wanted for that one? $18,000. Similar mileage vehicles but which one is a better used car value?

I don't want to discourage you from driving several different makes and models before you decide. The more research, etc. you do the better your decision should be.

I'm not sure what part of the country you are in, but I recommend buying a used car from a rust free state. It is worth traveling for buy a rust free vehicle in CA or AZ for example.

BajaTaco

01-06-2006, 02:36 PM

Yeah that really bums me out, I just needed a few more inches of bed length.

I'm going to go out on a limb here... but, I have seen lots of "bobbed" Tacoma beds. Why not an "extended" bed? You would need to know someone good at welding to make it an affordable project, but I think it is do-able. You could incorporate a custom rear bumper at the same time and make the back of the frame nice and strong, and accomodate a stretched d-cab bed. It would make for a crappy departure angle, but it might be a do-able compromise. OR - like I said, the new d-cabs are available with a regular bed length.

Maybe you are right about going new

Yep, with a 25K budget, I think it's a good idea, even if you have to finance some of it. You will end up with a vehicle that has it's entire life-span ahead of you, not just a fraction of it.

goodtimes

01-06-2006, 03:34 PM

Forget little trucks, go big. $9000 will get you a second generation dodge (3/4 ton 4x4 turbo diesel) that is just barely getting broken in, leaving you $16K to mod it out with. Life expectancy with the cummins is upwards of 300K. Fuel milage is around 20mpg. GVWR is 8800 pounds, GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating) is over 20K pounds. Dana 60 front axle, dana 70 or 80 rear axle (giving you huge wheel bearings that will take a ton of abuse on rough roads). $500 worth of engine modification will get you 350 hp/600 ft-lbs of torque (while maintianing that 20 mpg). 36 gallon tank (700 mile range!). 65 gallon tanks are available that fit in the factory location (1300 miles!)

The only downside is that maintenance is more expensive. For example, each oil change will cost you $30 worth of oil (although the change interval is 6500 miles, making it a little better).

datrupr

01-06-2006, 03:40 PM

I've heard that from a lot of people now. Care to elaborate on what the quirks are and work arounds for them?

The primary one Jeff already mentioned. The 3.5L engine has a tendancy too use a bit more than normal oil. I go through a quart of of 10w30 oil about every 4 tanks of gas, which relates to about 1000-1200 miles. A little more often when I do more highway driving and towing. Just check the oil every fill up and you will have no problems. On the late production run of the '01's and '02's Isuzu corrected this design flaw and they use much less oil. They also put a very substandard Intake Manifold Gasket on the engine from the factory and if it has not been replaced it will go out on you. It will cost about $400.00 to have a shop do it for you, but if you are only slightly mechanically inclined you can change it yourself for pretty much the cost of the gasket $35 - $75 and a couple of hours of your time. It is also very particular on what spark plugs it will happily accept, do not go with the fancy double platinum dual tip jobs, they will trigger a misfire code and make the engine run like crap. I comes from the factory with Champions, and that is what I put in mine, I think it cost $9.00 and 30 minutes to do a tune up on my truck a couple of months ago.Like I said, with 107K on the clock on mine it has been great and does not leak a drop of anything and the only squeeks or rattles come from the ambulance doors, and then only on a fairly rough road. However, because they are no longer being produced, parts can be a bit on the pricey side ($325 for an OEM Denso starter), but I have not run into any issues regarding parts availability, there were plenty of Troopers produced and a ton of them on the road still. They are very solid and very capable trucks. I like the rest however am a bit biased and I love my truck. Just thought I would fill you in since you asked. Good luck on your search.

datrupr

01-06-2006, 03:52 PM

can get supports for a roof rack and use the factory holes up top (still have a set somewhere I never installed) and that gets you into a variety of aftermarket racks or custom racks.Jeff

Jeff, you still have these support? What do you want for them? I have a nice Cobra hand held radio I can trade you for them:hehe: Seriously, I am interested if you are looking to get rid of them, let me know or PM me.

Hi Jack over, continue on with your regularly scheduled discussion.

BajaTaco

01-06-2006, 05:39 PM

The Isuzu and Nissan, or even a good full-size with a diesel might be cool, but I have no idea what the market is on those.

Thanks GT, you enlightened me on the cost - not bad!

bigreen505

01-07-2006, 12:40 AM

Okay everyone, only two remain. Thanks to all for your help.

Three options are left standing:
1. New Xterra with automatic
2. New Xterra with manual
3. 2002 Toyota 4Runner with 30k miles.

The manual Xterra is $23k, the auto is $500 more and the 4Runner is $500 more at about $24k. I am torn between the auto and manual Xterra as I like them both. The 5-speed auto was very smooth and quick to shift and the manual could limp forward on flat ground at 500 rpm with no problem.

Xterra Pros:
Power -- out the yin yang!
Removable rear seat
Price
New car with full warranty
Feels tight and solid
Quiet
Good seats
Cargo space for tall things (can easily fit two bikes, probably two bikes while two people sit in the back)

Cons:
Handling -- my Pathfinder can take a street corner 10 mph faster than the X!
Questionable build quality and reliability based low scores for Titan, Armada and to a lesser degree, Frontier
Comparatively low quality of materials
Build quality not up to par with Toyota
Height -- why is the truck so tall?
Roof rack -- is that thing realy useful? Seems like the Calmini replacement would be much better

4Runner Pros:
Quality
Toyota certified with a 7 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty
Resale vaule (not that I plan to sell in the next several years)
Cargo space (15 cubic feet more)
Visibility -- very impressive
My Thule rack will fit on the 4Runner -- this allows me to carry 10 pairs of skis on the roof if I have to (ski racing family, don't ask) and/or 2 bikes.

Toyota Cons:
Power. Adaquate, but nothing more, seems to be on par with my Pathfinder.
Seats. I drove a base model or SR5 (not sure) with a bunch of miles and not well cared for, the one I'm looking at buying is a Limited -- are they different?
Spending pretty much the whole budget on the vehicle, most mods would have to wait (I would get Slee rocker gards now because they are cheaper than body damage).

Neutral:
The Toyota has a wide selection of after market parts
Nissan will have bumpers, skids and 3" and 5" lifts available in a month or couple, lockers coming by June.
Xterra has smaller, but possibly more useful cargo space.
The engine bay of the Xterra seem very tight. Hard to work on, but keeps the front end compact.
If you are not familiar with Darren Kilgore's Web site, http://www.mycolorado.org you should check it out. Darren is a fellow photographer with a beautiful 4Runner. If I get the Toyota his setup would be my ultimate goal, but would probably take a few years to get there.

If anyone can think of anything else please let me know. I need to come to some sort of decision by late tomorrow morning. You have all been so helpful and I am very appreciative of your time. So, bring it on!

Thanks,
Bill

jeffryscott

01-07-2006, 01:37 AM

If it were me, given the above info I'd go Toyota. You still have a long warranty and at 30K it is still just a baby.

Good luck,

Jeff

BajaTaco

01-07-2006, 02:53 AM

Boy, tough decision.

If it were me (in your shoes, with those choices) I would feel safest getting the Toyota because there is a good bet you will never even need to use that 100K warranty, even at 30K miles. Jeff's right, it's just a baby.

HOWEVER, for the price, a brand new Xterra is hard to resist! With the upcoming aftermarket stuff available, that would be one fun rig to play around with. I don't have enough history with the Nissans to have my own personal gut feelings on them, but I have always liked them. Damn, I don't know - I might have to just flip a coin! :)

Regardless, you should check out this thread (http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/default.aspx?f=7&m=24382)at 4wdtrips.net and talk to this guy before you decide. He has been providing us with some great feedback on the new X.

BajaTaco

01-07-2006, 03:02 AM

Oh yea, I forgot to mention, that I would choose the manual Xterra over the automatic. I'm just a manual kind of guy, but also you will notice in that report that he mentions the manual has a better crawl ratio (sounds like you experienced that on your test drive).

Also forgot to mention, the new Xterras have done away with the torsion bars and are using arms with coilovers, which is way cool.

bigreen505

01-07-2006, 03:48 AM

Thanks for the link Chris. I'm leaning toward the Toyota a bit for reasons I'm not quite sure of, but we'll see what happens. I think flipping a coin might be a deciding factor. Also the fact the one is in state and one is not may weigh in as well.

BajaTaco

01-07-2006, 04:30 AM

Good luck Bill :wavey:

Whatever decision you make, will be the right one.

Darren

01-07-2006, 06:30 AM

Hey, Bill, I'm over here, too! I've been reading little pieces of this thread since you put it up and I had no idea this was you! Unreal. Good to talk to you again tonight!

It's a pretty tough choice between the vehicles you've checked out. That 4Runner you're eying is basically new, and like I said, if I wasn't as much of a 4Runner/Toyota fan of their quality, I'd have an Xterra. Too bad you don't have a bit more time picking one out, but I hope you end up with a good one. If you're going to the CNP get-together at the end of the month, I'll have to check out the new ride, assuming you have one by then.

Later!

calamaridog

01-07-2006, 07:02 AM

I wish I had some feedback on the Xterra. I'm just glad it still has the solid rear axle and not IFS. I'm sure it will be nice if you go that route.

My parents have had 2 - 2002 4runners. The first one was totally destroyed when my mother had a head on collision with a 20 ton boulder while doing about 35mph. The vehicle handled the impact flawlessly; very safe vehicle. The passenger compartment was totally intact after the accident.

The Highway Patrol was amazed they were not more seriously injured.

They immediately replaced it with another one. It has been perfect for 60,000 mi. so far.

No matter what you choose, you will be a winner, and we hope to see some pics:)

BajaTaco

01-07-2006, 01:41 PM

If you are not familiar with Darren Kilgore's Web site, http://www.mycolorado.org you should check it out. Darren is a fellow photographer with a beautiful 4Runner. If I get the Toyota his setup would be my ultimate goal, but would probably take a few years to get there.

Do I know Darren (http://www.bajataco.com/azadventure02/enlfr.htm?33)? Sometimes I am lucky enough to meet someone as famous. :bowdown: :D

bigreen505

01-07-2006, 03:15 PM

Yeah, I'm new here and't didn't realize Darren hung out here too. The whole Expedition community is new to me, I thought everyone had gone rock crawler crazy and I was the only one who wanted a vehicle I could drive comfortably for long periods of time to a destination, even at the expense of not being able to drive over rocks the size of my house.

Chris, that link to 4wd.net was great, sounds just like me. I think I've decided that it just comes down to price at this point. Which ever dealer gives me the best price will be the winner. I am reconsidering the Off-Road Xterra again because of the diffs, I didn't realize they were the same as the Nismo Frontier. History has suggested that ARB can't figure out how to put a locker in a LSD diff, but since these are ABS based it may not be an issue.

Darren, thanks again for all the help last night (he spent more than an hour talking me through the maze of 4Runners, aftermarket parts, and Xterras)! I do plan on going to the shindig. I better start looking for some good images from this year for the slideshow, most of work has been commercial.

gene

01-07-2006, 04:17 PM

The 2005/2006 Xterra is much better than the previous versions. Overall a really nice truck. Finally you get 2.67:1 transfer case. The older ones needed lower gears. The Trooper is a great car. I had one for 100,000 miles and it performed beautifully, nice low gears, more roomy and way better seats than the Xterra. My trooper got 16 to 17 mpg. By the time I sold it, there were fatigue cracks between the doors and window frames. No way to weld them without burning paint off the doors. The last 3 years (4 in my family) we used a Ford F250 Super Duty. It was my first full size and I was worried that it would be to big for off road. But to my surprise, with that V10, 75:1 crawl ratio and solid axles, that beast could crawl over big boulders and climb better than anything I have ever had (FJ55, various Toyota pickups, 2 Troopers, Frontier)! Plus I could now carry enough stuff to really enjoy my longer Mexico and Arctic trips. Gas mileage sucked at 12 MPG (manual trans). I sold it and started looking at 2006 Xterra vs. 2006 Tacoma Crew. They both are lucky to get 18 MPG. On a fluke,
I tried out a Dodge Diesel. You know what, super low gears, lots of space for true expedition amounts of gear, HD solid axles, 300,000 mile engine, biodiesel fuel compatible and whoa! 22 MPG!! I bought one and love it! $32,000 but I can stick your Xterra in the back of this truck and still get better fuel mileage than any of the little trucks. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

BlueTrooper

01-08-2006, 01:32 PM

My guess is that the Xterra would be a little more fuel-efficient, and the Trooper cheaper, and roomier.

Have you driven the Trooper? How a vehicle feels and rides, subjectively, is very important. One of the things I love about them is the headroom they get from the more traditional, boxy shape.

If you do go that way, there is a lot of info available right here on Scott's site, as well as looking at the discussion on Aaron's mod thread.

Also, check to see if the Trooper has the limited slip diff option (noted by the code G80 on the ID plate in the engine compartment).

Good luck!

(Maybe I should have read all the pages of the thread first, and realized that the Trooper was out of the running! :o Am sure there are lots of used bargains out there if you are still interested, though!)

bigreen505

01-08-2006, 08:03 PM

Fuunny you should mention that Roy. I just found a 2001 LS with 31k for $10k. We'll see.

jeffryscott

01-08-2006, 10:16 PM

10k for a 01 with 31K is SO much cheaper than either the 4Runner or Xterra - you could easily outfit it the way you want and then some for your 25K budget.

The Trooper is roomier than the other two as well and it should have the balance of the 10 year/100,000 warranty Isuzu offers.

Roy is right, if you haven't driven any of the above vehicles definitely do so. Toyota's tend to have you stretch out, the Trooper and Xterra have you sitting much more upright ...

Assuming the vehicle is not a lemon (always a chance with any used vehicle) you really can't go wrong with a Trooper if you like how it drives and sits and feels.

It is so difficult making these decisions, at some point you just have to say "This one."

Good luck, Jeff

Life_in_4Lo

01-09-2006, 02:01 AM

seems like a new Xterra is out of your $25K budget. A new car alone w/o mods is about that. Tax, lic, insc, etc...it adds up.

Account for the fact mods always cost more than you thought and you will easily top out $35K before you are done w/ the Xterra.

$10K base will leave you plenty for mods, maintence and travel money if you have a ceiling of $25K.
But beyond price, you should get something you will really enjoy. Is it $10+K in your pocket will make you smile or a 0 odometer new rig in the driveway? No wrong answer imo, just your preference.

bigreen505

01-09-2006, 03:56 AM

Thanks guys,

Jeff,
I have no preference in driving position between the Toyota and Nissa, both were fine. I do, however, have some concerns about the crash protection of the Trooper reported in Consumer Reports, especially compared with the Toyota and Nissan.

Life in 4 lo,
The Xterra does go over budget, but not by as much as you think, and can be built more slowly. Assuming everything goes as planned I would have about $27k in the X when it is finished.

So I guess I have a bit of reporting back to do. I drove both a new X (manual and auto) and a 2002 4Runner, though not the one I am considering. The 4Runner was a very unremarkable vehicle, which is both good and bad as nothing struck me as being particularly bad. I did have much less space inside than I was expecting based on the numbers. Power was underwhelming, but probably on par with my Pathfinder. It seemed to have okay power low and high, but nothing in the middle, where they Pathfinder is all in the middle (3500-4500 rpm).

The Xterra seemed nice, but handling was truly attrocious. My Pathfinder can take city corners 10+ mph faster! We are talking about a 15 year old truck with a 2" lift compared to a new vehicle that has handling described as car-like. I don't get it. :eek: I know I have spent a lot of time dialing in the suspension on the Pathy, but still.

My wife is coming with me tomorrow to drive them and see what she likes. I am leaning toward the X, but still not quite sure (and have not looked at the Trooper yet). My big gripe about the 4Runner is the exhorbitant used prices for the Gen 3 runners -- they are more than the current 4th Gen 4Runners. I thought it was a fluke at one dealer, but a trip to Edmunds.com confirms this. One the other had, the used market is strong for these trucks and if I decide to sell in a couple years I can get my money out. On the other hand if I drive it for 15 years there is no benefit.

I dug up a '99 4Runner limited that I am checking out tomorrow and will report back again. If anyone is interested in these trucks that I am passing up I am happy to divulge where they are. :wavey:

calamaridog

01-09-2006, 06:45 AM

The used prices on the 4runners and Tacomas is very high but the prices on Land Cruisers is relatively low.

When I test drove the first Xterra I noticed it handled quite poorly, much worse than the Jeep Liberty we ended up with. I'm surprised the new one isn't a whole bunch better.

The Trooper sounds very interesting for only 10k...

What about the 4th generation 4runner? I've seen 4x4 with the V6 for less than 22k.

Nullifier

01-09-2006, 02:02 PM

The xterra is so tall because of the stadium seating in the rear. Plus it's the high roof that allows you to place the bikes in the back with out messing with your bikes seat hieght. You will not be able to put bikes in the rear with people sitting in the back. They only fit the rear seat folded down.

The rack is useless. You will need to add either thule or yakima set up to it and that makes it even taller. Oh and you can ditch the factory cargo basket if you need it it only holds 35lbs.

One last thing the factory wind fairing on ours made a ton of racket. It wasn't strong enough and would vibrate something fierce at highway speed. after the dealer replaced it twice we decided to just take it off.

jeffryscott

01-09-2006, 02:33 PM

Thanks guys,

Jeff,
I have no preference in driving position between the Toyota and Nissa, both were fine. I do, however, have some concerns about the crash protection of the Trooper reported in Consumer Reports, especially compared with the Toyota and Nissan.

:wavey:

Frankly, I wouldn't give much credence to Consumer Reports when it comes to anything more than reliability. I've had two vehicles they deemed "unsafe," a Samurai and the Trooper. Neither were difficult or dangerous to drive. Isuzu won the case against CR for the "rollover" risk associated with the Trooper, but it killed Trooper sales (one reason prices are so low.)

I'm certainly not trying to sway you into the Trooper, just want to give experience from a former owner. A clear advantage with the Trooper is the price. You really do get a lot of vehicle, and it comes with reliability on par with the Toyota. (The only reason I don't have the Trooper is I traded it straight across for a Land Rover Discovery. I sold the Discovery after 3 years because gas was killing me).

With a slight Old Man Emu lift, you can fit 285-75-16 tires, get an ARB winch bumper and winch, sliders and ARB lockers and for less than 15K you would have a truly remarkable and setup. Throw in a rooftop tent and an ARB or Engel fridge and take the rest of the money for a nice trip.

Bottom line, if the Trooper is of interest, don't worry about what CR says. They are great vehicles and truly capable. And while there isn't a whole lot of aftermarket support, there is enough to make it a great expedition vehicle.

If you drive it, you'll notice the stock suspension (shocks) is soft and cushy. I replaced mine with Old Man Emu as the second mod (tires first) and wasboard roads I bounced all over at 25 in stock form I could cruise at 45 and track straight.

Sorry for rambling ...

Jeff

(BTW, I'm also a photographer)

chet

01-09-2006, 04:10 PM

Is there a problem getting parts for Isuzus now that the company is gone? I like the trooper as well but parts availability would scare me.

BlueTrooper

01-09-2006, 05:51 PM

The company isn't gone...they just stopped making the Trooper a couple of years back (unfortunately).

There are still a LOT of them on the road, though, and enough aftermarket providers of parts.

datrupr

01-09-2006, 07:37 PM

I have not had any trouble getting parts for mine. Most of the auto parts stores in my area carry them, or at least can get them the next day. Price is not out of line for them either. I did have to pay $350 for a new starter last year though, but the most expensive repair to date with my Trooper.

bigreen505

01-10-2006, 03:39 AM

I drove the Trooper today. It looked nearly showroom fresh -- very clean. Judging by the looks of the owner, I suspect this may have been the dirtiest the car had ever been! The size seems perfect -- roughly the same physical dimensions as an Xterra, but all useful space. I didn't love the driving position, but pretty much left things as the owner had them, so it probably could get better. Okay power. However, at 31,000 mi, this truck had more shakes and rattles than my Pathfinder at 322,000! Is this normal? The owner thought it was just the discs in the in-dash changer rattling around, but whatever it was it did not inspire confidence. It just didn't seem very well screwed together. I'm not convinced this particular Trooper will be a high-mileage, high reliability vehicle. (Scott, Kevin, Aaron, comments?).

On the plus side, I could see why this would be a good rig off road and the sunroof is to die for. If my math is correct this would be about $16k built up -- $10k less than an Xterra! However, there is a reason a Toyota or Nissan costs twice as much, at least for this rig.

Earlier in the day, I brought a load to the Nissan dealer to try in an Xterra. It included:
- 1 baby car seat (with baby attached)
- 1 jogging stroller, folded as much as they fold
- 1 road bike (XL compact frame with 110 stem)
- 1 "bike box," aka small laundry basket with bike clothes
- 1 pair of 188 cm skis
- 1 small backpack

All this fit in my Pathfinder with a little creativity and head scratching. It also fit in the Xterra, only with room to spare! It just goes to show there is more to life than numbers, or as the photography community calls it, measurebating. If you want to see if your gear fits, try it out. As a bonus my wife like driving it, which is important on long trips.

On the down side of it all, I remembered that a sunroof is high on the priority list. I ran the Alpine Loop in the Colorado San Juans last year for the first time with the sun roof removed in the Pathfinder and it was a completely different experience than previous trips. That was what led me to want a Jeep and begin the search for a new vehicle. Sometimes the best view is straight up. I'm not sure where this leaves me. Somewhere in the course of measurebating and carefully considering and pricing each potential vehicle, I forgot that the journey is the destination and, aside from getting home safely, enjoying the beauty of the scenery is the most important part of the trip for me. I'm not quite sure where this all leaves me, but I need to re-asses my priorities.

The one remaining option I have not yet driven is a UJZ100. I'll report back when I do.

-Bill

BlueTrooper

01-10-2006, 05:25 AM

The Trooper IS very nice when equipped with a sunroof. It's the biggest sunroof I've seen. Very handy for desert driving when a lot of dust is being kicked up, and you don't want to shut ALL the windows. It's also nice when you're driving at night in a remote area and want to see a starry sky. Try opening it and reclining the front seats (when you're stopped, of course!!).

One of the drawbacks I've found, in my Trooper, at least, is the rattle/squeak factor. As for the CD changer, it seems like unloading the CD's would be a good way to see if that was the culprit. Another thing that can rattle a bit is the equipment in the jack compartment (removable panel on the left side of the rear storage area) if it's not properly stowed.

There's also a "secret" tool/storage comparment (at least on my model year) located beneath the 60/40 split rear seats. You have to flip the seats down and then up to reveal it. I found that the previous owner had forgotten all about the tools he left in there....as well as the leaking can of fix-a-flat. What a mess! :eek:

Another source of shakes and squeaks is one of my favorite features on the Trooper: The wide-opening, EZ-load "ambulance doors." I've got a major squeaking problem on mine now that I recently hung a heavier spare tire on the outside. They sure do make loading/unloading easy, though!

"Measurebating..." Now that's an interesting word...:orngartis

calamaridog

01-10-2006, 06:55 AM

Bill,

If safety is a major factor in your purchase decision, the 2000 and later UZJ100's have TRAC (traction control) instead of the rear locker. They also have VSC (vehicle stability control) which works by modulating the abs system to help avoid losing control of the vehicle at high speeds.

The VSC really works, I've experienced it first hand. While traveling about 75mph on the fwy, a sedan came to almost a complete stop right in front of me. I was so surprised that I lost precious seconds to slow down. The only way to avoid rear ending this car was to swerve into the fast lane. I changed lanes, the VSC kicked in, and saved me from possibly losing control of the vehicle. It was very subtle and needless to say, I was impressed.

I've done a good amount of "threshold" and "pursuit" driving training. I should not have been able to control the vehicle at that speed and would not have corrected the swerve without additional actions if the VSC was not equipped.

If you do decide to get the UZJ100, then consider a 2000 or later model instead of the 98-99. You can always add an ARB locker later on.

As far as room goes, they have a bunch of useable space, especially when you remove the rear jump seats.

Also remember, the LX470 is the Lexus version but has a few more fancy features.

datrupr

01-10-2006, 03:32 PM

Bill, As far as the Trooper is concerned, the only squeeks and rattles I have ar from the rear doors, and that is only really audible on rough roads. If it is the Cd Changer that is causing the rattling then consider that a good thing, the factory in dash Cd changers are known for crapping out and trapping your CD's. I just experienced this with mine, and now where the CD changer was is my new CB radio, with a factory look fit. I have the same storage compartment that Roy mentioned under the rear seats, and I have a few tools, batteries, and what not in there and I can't hear any noise from that either on everyday streets. There is probably something the owner has in either the center console, ashtry, or somewhere else that is causing the rattle. Or, there may have been some work done around the dash area and it was not put back together properly. I do not have the sun roof on my Trooper, I wish I did though, those things are huge and very cool. I wonder now if that could be the cause of the rattle? I don't know, 107K on mine and still leak and rattle free for the most part. You may want to check out a couple of them and see if you are hearing the same rattle. I have not experienced it though. And, IMO still a great purchase, leaving you with extrra $$ for mods and Toyota like quality. I personally like the high up seating position on my Trooper, but it take me a bit to find the right settings between the seats and mirrors, but when I did I find very few drawbacks to the truck. Do get blind sopot mirrors though, that was the first "mod" I did on my Trooper. Good luck with your search. Here is a pic of my new center stack, with out the CD changer.

kcowyo

01-10-2006, 05:01 PM

On the down side of it all, I remembered that a sunroof is high on the priority list. I ran the Alpine Loop in the Colorado San Juans last year for the first time with the sun roof removed in the Pathfinder and it was a completely different experience than previous trips. That was what led me to want a Jeep and begin the search for a new vehicle. Sometimes the best view is straight up. I'm not sure where this leaves me. Somewhere in the course of measurebating and carefully considering and pricing each potential vehicle, I forgot that the journey is the destination and, aside from getting home safely, enjoying the beauty of the scenery is the most important part of the trip for me. I'm not quite sure where this all leaves me, but I need to re-asses my priorities.
-Bill

I haven't chimed in because I'm one who will agonize and over analyze every purchase. There never seems to be a clear answer when you're predicting the usefulness and reliability of a large purchase. But I will back you up on the perks of having a 4x4 with a removable top. It's one reason I'm not all keyed up on the new FJ Cruiser.

I lived in Lake City for several years and spent a lot of time on the Loop Road. I thought you brought up an excellent point about how much more scenic the road is without a top. At the time I had an '84 CJ-7, and the runs I made without the top on, were always more enjoyable. Indeed, the view straight up sometimes is best. At the beginning and end of the summer season when I would run with the top on, it seemed I made quicker time but noticed less of the scenery, smells, etc. When my Jeep met its demise near Hurricane Pass, I opted not to replace it as having a convertible 4WD in Colorado (and now Wyoming) is only practical from mid-June through August.

However, I don't believe that the benefits of having an open air 4x4, when traversing mind boggling scenic trails can be overstated. It just puts you that much closer to your surroundings and immerses you in the moment.

bigreen505

01-10-2006, 05:38 PM

Thanks to Aaron and Roy, those were very thoughtful posts.

The rattles were coming from two places, the ambulance doors were one, but the worst was in the dash -- centrally and near the firewall I'm guessing. Whenever the rpm whas high, particularly after a downshift, the rattle/resonation was almost too loud to talk over.

I feel bad that this post has gone on so long, but hopefully there is enough info here to almost make an FAQ for newbies in a similar situation -- either looking for a new vehicle or looking to replace an existing one.

-Bill

jeffryscott

01-24-2006, 04:07 PM

So Big Green,

Any decisions on vehicles?

Just curious,

Jeff

upcruiser

01-24-2006, 11:47 PM

Hey big green, you say your family is into ski racing, nice! I work in the business myself. Good luck with the vehicle hunting, looks like you are heading in the right direction. I'll be curious to see what you end up with. FYI, I use my FJ80 for alot of the same things that it sounds like you use your rigs for. I know how much the interior space thing matters. I've loved the 80. I've done 2 month trips in it with my bikes inside, a bed to sleep on, my kayak, and everything I need for a home away from home. When you pick wisely and set them up right, it definately pays off huge. Have fun and keep us posted!

bigreen505

02-02-2006, 04:57 AM

Thanks guys, unfortunately funds had to be diverted elsewhere for the time being due to an unexpected situation, hopefully I should be back on track by the spring or early summer. In any case, for now I'll be sticking with the Pathfinder.

Lot's of options, we'll see what wins out. As Bajataco rightly pointed out it is a battle of compromises and I'm not sure what I'm willing to give up. I have received a couple recommendations for a long-bed 4-door Taco and just deal with the limitations of the long wheelbase.

Upcruiser, I definitely know what you mean about space. Your post may have been the best endorsement for an FJ80 I've received. A couple years ago I had the (dis)pleasure of loading a whole hill worth of B-net into the back of Crawford's Suburban after a Noram at Loveland. That was really an eye-opener. If I could fit one 20M roll into the Pathfinder I would be floored.

calamaridog

02-02-2006, 05:51 AM

bigG,

Stuff comes up and the good thing is that the trucks will still be there when all is said and done. The free advice isn't going anywhere either:xxrotflma

bigreen505

07-09-2006, 05:41 PM

I promised I would post back when I found a winner, and it looks like I have.

Silver 1999 Isuzu Trooper with a rebuilt engine. The owner upgraded a bunch of suspension components but the goal was a lift for looks, not necessarily a lift for improved performance and travel. The engine blew on the way home from his second trip to Moab which led to a lot of expenses that coincided with his realization that his style was more WRX than Trooper, so he sold it.

It has the ARB 819 springs in the back (medium heavy), Rancho 9000x shocks (so far very unimpressed with them) and some assorted poly bushings supporting 285/75 R16 Futura Dakota tires (also would not have been my first choice -- or my tenth). I think I will wear them out and replace with 265/75 or 235/85, or if I get really lucky run two sets of rims with street/snow and off-road tires. In my opinion the stock torsion bars are worthless and they will be replaced with something -- either Sway-a-Way 1549's or ARB. It is possible the bars just wore out from being over cranked.

Daniel Stern has begun the hunt for e-code lights for it and recommended Cibie Oscar's for auxiliary lighting.

As with the Pathfinder, all mods will be focused on improving the stock form as much as possible while maintaining efficiency, durabiliity and reliability -- nothing huge or monsterish. I go off-road for travel and scenery, not for rock crawling or stupid truck tricks. On the wish list are a refrigerator, on-board air, ARB lockers, ARB or possibly custom aluminum (local fab) winch bumper with winch, storage, CB, 2M,and probably a roof rack with basket (so that rack and aux. lighting can be easily removed from the vehicle when not needed, and none of it in that order. I will probably start addressing the storage issue in the next couple weeks.

I'm going to install manual hubs right away and ball joints and tie rod ends very shortly thereafter, but hold off on everything else until I'm sure it's a keeper. Seems like a good truck after a couple minor teething problems. I'll start a mod thread (and sell the Pathfinder) when I know it's a keeper. I was reading 4wdtrips and came across a mod thread for the Expeditions West Trooper including a list of planned mods, and will probably use that as a general road map, but with an eye more for comfort than pure utility (think Dynamat, not Rhino Liner).

Thank you all for your help and patience!

Scott Brady

07-09-2006, 06:12 PM

Looking forward to following the build.

The torsion bars are likely ok. What shocks are up front? A Trooper really needs firm shocks.

After a few weeks, I am curious to hear your impressions. My Trooper has really become an old friend, with lots of great adventures during the 6 years of ownership.

bigreen505

07-09-2006, 06:31 PM

Rancho 9000x sent on 9 (max stiff). I don't really know how these shocks work, but the settings are not linear. Right now they are 10 front and 7 back.

I think part of the problem may be that the torsions are so high that there is really no up travel, causing the truck to handle in weird ways. I'll dive in over the next several days and see what's up. Basically it is a case don't put it in your mouth if you don't know where it's been. I'll report back after some experience. I need to do some basic mods and then I'll take it on a shake-down trip through the San Juans and possibly to Moad to visit some friends at the end of July.

calamaridog

07-10-2006, 06:34 AM

Glad you found a truck. I really like the Troopers. Post a pic when you have a chance:jumping:

datrupr

07-10-2006, 02:45 PM

Bill, congrats once again. I know you will be happy with the truck if all was done properly from the previous owner. Since the engine is rebuilt you may not have the IMG problem and hopefully the oil consumption issue is gone as well. In any case, check your oil at every fill up until you start to notice a trend. I know I have to put a quart in mine every 4th tank of gas (approx. 1100 miles), and if I do a lot of steady highway driving or towing I need to check it every tank, and fill it accordingly. I also have to agree with Scott, the T bars are probably fine, the stock T bars are very stout, they are probably just a little over crancked. Now, if you add more weight up front (like a bull bar) you will notice a difference, and will probably handle better. But until then, turn them back about an inch and it should handle much better. Keep us posted and I know we are all more than happy to help you out if you need anything. I was going to post a pic of for all you guys, but he pulled the pics off the add after he marked it sold. It was posted up on Planetisuzoo and a very nice looking truck.