Jwestpro
07-12-2011, 03:06 PM
I need help! Maybe in more ways than one seeing as I'm seriously considering a new G55....opinions and experience or other ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Aside from purchase price, how do folks view the current G550 and G55 in terms of reliability, engine & transmission appropriateness/capability over 200,000-300,000 miles? Safety is of high importance as well as pure fun to drive, enjoyable to exist with over many, many years.
I am mostly only interested in comparisons to current "luxury" models that have a high degree of comfort or high grade of finish. I say this because I have a 1996 Discovery at 225,000 miles which I started with 38k in 2001 and loved it but am looking for more overall comfort and long distance highway prowess as well as 4x4 time. My 2004 Discovery is well above the 96 but is still without any side airbags and fairs marginally on roll over from all I've researched so far. To be honest, it's my closest overall competitor to getting a new to almost new (09-11 G55, or 08 G55)
Uses would be, but not limited to: all-around multi-purpose vehicle every week (going to mountain bike races such as 12-24hr where my awnings deployed are awesome for sun or rain protection or napping), light trail duty (requiring the lockers but not winching out of windowsill mud), extensive camping (weeks sleeping inside solo in winter or using roof tent/offroad trailer with the roof top tent), general base camp vehicle, towing small things like an Airstream 16-23' max, towing car to a track, going to Alaska and back on a whim, or to Labrador on less of a whim in January.
More important requirements:
Safety (whether it be high tech like in the newest Land Rovers or inherent like in the G structure)
Reliability (short term, meaning unlikeliness of small electronic nonsense like a wheel sensor not getting consistent power from battery which will cause system to shut you down to restart. Long term, that it's major large parts/functions will simply last 200k-300k...)
Comfort (comfort meaning materials, design, ergonomics, I fit the G cockpit like it was made to measure, the LR3/4 is a little broad being that I'm lean and only 5-11, which helps me fit fine sleeping along the passenger side solo on elevated platform. The ventilated seats are nice but the main thing with 09+ is the fully adjustable seats for both front people)
Fun factor: (is there really any comparison to the G55? It's got the 3 lockers, but is awesome on the highway too, and even winding roads considering it's heft.
Flexible layout/set up (the very square and tall/wide interior is ideal for a wide range of cargo and/or people configurations. most likely the rear seats would be removed all the time, or at least the wider one)
Strong Points for the 2004 Discovery I have:
In addition to the cost (I own it) I do "love" the Disco overall.
Similarities:
Relatively comfortable, similar seating ergonomics although seats not quite as nice or adjustable as in the 09+ G.
Very good interior overall.
Probably more versatile interior volume being that it is taller inside while having similar width and depth from rear cargo door to back of front seats. Rear seats equally simple to remove/replace as in the G.
Both have swing out cargo door but Disco is wider access width and taller.
Both have solid axles, steel springs, easy to suspension lift if desired, in small increments to via spacers 30mm, to heavy duty springs.
Differences:
Reliability: surely the G is FAR more reliable, although until this year, my '96 Disco never needed towing! (it has however had nearly every part under the hood replaced except the engine block itself)
Durability: while I have an affinity for the Disco, it feels like no where near the build quality of the G.
Comfort: while the Disco is "good", the G is better
Fun: similar at trail speed, not even comparable on the highway, however the 04 disco is far better than the 96 disco
Capability: Well, if both equipped with lockers, the Disco 2 has more wheel travel right? I have not researched enough to "know" if ARB air lockers are better than the system used in the G.
Why a G55 over the G550? We drove the 09 550, did not like it's transmission feel at all except for at cruising speed on the highway. It felt weird at slow speeds, up down through the rev and speed range although the 550 engine (a naturally aspirated v8) is plenty powerful. That 7 spd transmission is also not designed as robustly like the 5 spd version in the AMG which handles the AMG engine beautifully.
I do "like" the special idea of the AMG engine build. I like the bigger brakes, which you could change as desired on the 550. However, these larger brakes are limiting to an 18" wheel. Again, you could swap those out for 550 size brakes which will allow a 16" I think.
Why NEW G over slightly used G? We've driven a few 2005 G55 and even a low miles 2007 and 2008. They always have the last persons "funk", which maybe I just haven't found the right funk-free example yet! The way these hold their value, unless you go with considerably less expensive, like a 2005,06, 07, you might as well get a new one if it's discounted. A barely used 09+ is not far off from a discounted 2011 so why risk how some knucklehead drove it or didn't take care of it.
Long term, I could justify the expense of a newer G if it can simply last 10-20 years. I would like to settle in to a vehicle and not have to replace it. I figure I'll have 40 years until I'm not allowed to drive anymore ;)
My only 2 reservations on getting a 2010-2011 G55 are, up front cost and fuel mileage.
We have considered the higher mpg diesel options, not many in the US, especially when you toss in our list of requirements on this page. For us, VW Touareg tdi wins the overall: capabilty offroad (12" clearance using 32" BFG tires, middle and rear locker, good traction control system), combined with very good mpg (24-27 is no problem on highway), it's biggest limitation is interior smaller size, short roofline (will not allow my rack and awnings) and it has a lot of electro-gizmos I like but fear failing (air suspension, fancy sensors). It is however incredibly safe, fairly comfortable, good public image, long, long fuel tank range. But alas, it is still just a "beefy car"
The Audi Q7 tdi even with air suspension for clearance, is even more of just a really cool "car" (essentially a more capable Allroad with better mpg), the BMW x5d, even more toward being a "car" (it's essentially a higher mpg version of our 535xi Wagon)
Range Rovers are awesome to hop in new and drive around, offroad even, but there are simply too many electronic gizmos and honestly, the interior volume is not very big.
The LR4, while "better" than the LR3, is still something that seems like you shouldn't own it past the warranty so this means at most, 100,000 miles and that's only 4-5 years for me.
We looked at the Jeep but simply weren't pulled in by the interior feel.
Rambling ideas:
This last part leads to my 2nd biggest issue with the G, mpg and long term use a fuel related concerns. 5 -10 years ago, mpg mattered less in terms of cost to the driver. At 20,000 - 30,000 miles per year, it does become a factor, if at least on principal, when you are blowing it out at 14-15 mpg.
I know one option is a sweet tdi swap into my beloved Disco2....maybe along with a 5 spd transmission. But then it still doesn't provide the safety factor and I do not know about reliability in other Discovery 2 with the tdi swap. I do use the 04 Disco right now, but only on the other coast for work as I travel back and forth.
Overall, money does matter, it has to, no matter how your resources are situated, a new G55 is equivalent to a lot of other ways to spend that $. New G55 = Combination of: A current VW V10 TDI $45k, a new Airstream small to medium size $25-$35k, a top of the line offroad trailer $20k, remaining $20k for build out of those. That's the way I look at all of it to consider the sanity in a new G which could on the other hand just last nearly forever ? I don't see the VW Touareg lasting 20 years or to 400,000 miles, the engine might but how about the rest of it. I don't know if we want to drive a 2004 Disco to 400k! Maybe I should consider buying a couple more nice 2004 Discos over the next few years to set aside like a pair of favorite shoes? ;)
Aside from purchase price, how do folks view the current G550 and G55 in terms of reliability, engine & transmission appropriateness/capability over 200,000-300,000 miles? Safety is of high importance as well as pure fun to drive, enjoyable to exist with over many, many years.
I am mostly only interested in comparisons to current "luxury" models that have a high degree of comfort or high grade of finish. I say this because I have a 1996 Discovery at 225,000 miles which I started with 38k in 2001 and loved it but am looking for more overall comfort and long distance highway prowess as well as 4x4 time. My 2004 Discovery is well above the 96 but is still without any side airbags and fairs marginally on roll over from all I've researched so far. To be honest, it's my closest overall competitor to getting a new to almost new (09-11 G55, or 08 G55)
Uses would be, but not limited to: all-around multi-purpose vehicle every week (going to mountain bike races such as 12-24hr where my awnings deployed are awesome for sun or rain protection or napping), light trail duty (requiring the lockers but not winching out of windowsill mud), extensive camping (weeks sleeping inside solo in winter or using roof tent/offroad trailer with the roof top tent), general base camp vehicle, towing small things like an Airstream 16-23' max, towing car to a track, going to Alaska and back on a whim, or to Labrador on less of a whim in January.
More important requirements:
Safety (whether it be high tech like in the newest Land Rovers or inherent like in the G structure)
Reliability (short term, meaning unlikeliness of small electronic nonsense like a wheel sensor not getting consistent power from battery which will cause system to shut you down to restart. Long term, that it's major large parts/functions will simply last 200k-300k...)
Comfort (comfort meaning materials, design, ergonomics, I fit the G cockpit like it was made to measure, the LR3/4 is a little broad being that I'm lean and only 5-11, which helps me fit fine sleeping along the passenger side solo on elevated platform. The ventilated seats are nice but the main thing with 09+ is the fully adjustable seats for both front people)
Fun factor: (is there really any comparison to the G55? It's got the 3 lockers, but is awesome on the highway too, and even winding roads considering it's heft.
Flexible layout/set up (the very square and tall/wide interior is ideal for a wide range of cargo and/or people configurations. most likely the rear seats would be removed all the time, or at least the wider one)
Strong Points for the 2004 Discovery I have:
In addition to the cost (I own it) I do "love" the Disco overall.
Similarities:
Relatively comfortable, similar seating ergonomics although seats not quite as nice or adjustable as in the 09+ G.
Very good interior overall.
Probably more versatile interior volume being that it is taller inside while having similar width and depth from rear cargo door to back of front seats. Rear seats equally simple to remove/replace as in the G.
Both have swing out cargo door but Disco is wider access width and taller.
Both have solid axles, steel springs, easy to suspension lift if desired, in small increments to via spacers 30mm, to heavy duty springs.
Differences:
Reliability: surely the G is FAR more reliable, although until this year, my '96 Disco never needed towing! (it has however had nearly every part under the hood replaced except the engine block itself)
Durability: while I have an affinity for the Disco, it feels like no where near the build quality of the G.
Comfort: while the Disco is "good", the G is better
Fun: similar at trail speed, not even comparable on the highway, however the 04 disco is far better than the 96 disco
Capability: Well, if both equipped with lockers, the Disco 2 has more wheel travel right? I have not researched enough to "know" if ARB air lockers are better than the system used in the G.
Why a G55 over the G550? We drove the 09 550, did not like it's transmission feel at all except for at cruising speed on the highway. It felt weird at slow speeds, up down through the rev and speed range although the 550 engine (a naturally aspirated v8) is plenty powerful. That 7 spd transmission is also not designed as robustly like the 5 spd version in the AMG which handles the AMG engine beautifully.
I do "like" the special idea of the AMG engine build. I like the bigger brakes, which you could change as desired on the 550. However, these larger brakes are limiting to an 18" wheel. Again, you could swap those out for 550 size brakes which will allow a 16" I think.
Why NEW G over slightly used G? We've driven a few 2005 G55 and even a low miles 2007 and 2008. They always have the last persons "funk", which maybe I just haven't found the right funk-free example yet! The way these hold their value, unless you go with considerably less expensive, like a 2005,06, 07, you might as well get a new one if it's discounted. A barely used 09+ is not far off from a discounted 2011 so why risk how some knucklehead drove it or didn't take care of it.
Long term, I could justify the expense of a newer G if it can simply last 10-20 years. I would like to settle in to a vehicle and not have to replace it. I figure I'll have 40 years until I'm not allowed to drive anymore ;)
My only 2 reservations on getting a 2010-2011 G55 are, up front cost and fuel mileage.
We have considered the higher mpg diesel options, not many in the US, especially when you toss in our list of requirements on this page. For us, VW Touareg tdi wins the overall: capabilty offroad (12" clearance using 32" BFG tires, middle and rear locker, good traction control system), combined with very good mpg (24-27 is no problem on highway), it's biggest limitation is interior smaller size, short roofline (will not allow my rack and awnings) and it has a lot of electro-gizmos I like but fear failing (air suspension, fancy sensors). It is however incredibly safe, fairly comfortable, good public image, long, long fuel tank range. But alas, it is still just a "beefy car"
The Audi Q7 tdi even with air suspension for clearance, is even more of just a really cool "car" (essentially a more capable Allroad with better mpg), the BMW x5d, even more toward being a "car" (it's essentially a higher mpg version of our 535xi Wagon)
Range Rovers are awesome to hop in new and drive around, offroad even, but there are simply too many electronic gizmos and honestly, the interior volume is not very big.
The LR4, while "better" than the LR3, is still something that seems like you shouldn't own it past the warranty so this means at most, 100,000 miles and that's only 4-5 years for me.
We looked at the Jeep but simply weren't pulled in by the interior feel.
Rambling ideas:
This last part leads to my 2nd biggest issue with the G, mpg and long term use a fuel related concerns. 5 -10 years ago, mpg mattered less in terms of cost to the driver. At 20,000 - 30,000 miles per year, it does become a factor, if at least on principal, when you are blowing it out at 14-15 mpg.
I know one option is a sweet tdi swap into my beloved Disco2....maybe along with a 5 spd transmission. But then it still doesn't provide the safety factor and I do not know about reliability in other Discovery 2 with the tdi swap. I do use the 04 Disco right now, but only on the other coast for work as I travel back and forth.
Overall, money does matter, it has to, no matter how your resources are situated, a new G55 is equivalent to a lot of other ways to spend that $. New G55 = Combination of: A current VW V10 TDI $45k, a new Airstream small to medium size $25-$35k, a top of the line offroad trailer $20k, remaining $20k for build out of those. That's the way I look at all of it to consider the sanity in a new G which could on the other hand just last nearly forever ? I don't see the VW Touareg lasting 20 years or to 400,000 miles, the engine might but how about the rest of it. I don't know if we want to drive a 2004 Disco to 400k! Maybe I should consider buying a couple more nice 2004 Discos over the next few years to set aside like a pair of favorite shoes? ;)