Is it time? Pathfinder vs. Other...

[vengeful]

I've been doing a lot of work, mostly design and conceptualization and stuff like that, and thinking lately. Realistically, I've gotten to the point where I'm really limited in what I can do with the Pathfinder. I've come to the realization that it may not meet my needs anymore.

- The rear cargo area isn't large/long enough for what I want use it for.
- I'm really limited in what I can do with the front end, due to the strut front suspension.
- I'm limited in what I can do with the rear-end, because of the Unibody.
- I'm limited in what I can further modify on the truck, without going full custom, due to a severe lack of aftermarket support, and no interest in expanding that support.

I've been looking at a lot of pictures of various expedition style rigs, and at this point, it seems that a 3rd Generation 4Runner, or 80-Series Land Cruiser would suit my needs much better than the Pathfinder. Lift options are practically endless for either of those trucks, and the rear cargo areas are much larger than the Pathfinder. Drivetrain mods are more readily available, and less expensive than the Pathfinder. And lets face it...the Landys are just cool!

Truth be told, I don't WANT to sell my Pathy, but things have gotten to a point where I feel that it's time to move on, into something that will suit my needs a little bit better. I'd like to stick with a Japanese SUV, mid-size is preferred, but with Larger cargo capacity than the Pathfinder. And, I don't want an Xterra, everyone and their mother has an Xterra! I'll be very sad to see the Pathy go, and I know it'll be a tough sell, but I just feel that it's time.

If you were in my situation, what would you do? Any suggestions other than the 4Runner or Cruiser? And no...I absolutely do not want an Xterra...

[calamaridog]

Dan,

I think you are looking in the right direction with the 4runner. It just totally depends on your budget though. And do you plan on daily driver? If so, you want a low mileage vehicle for start. Also, what level of maintenance do you want to do? 4th generation 4runner has nice cargo room so don't discount them.

Izuzu Trooper can be a great value too, but not tons of aftermarket either.

I think the Pathfinder was a great SUV for people who didn't want mods. Good power, drives well, etc.

[ZooJunkie]

I don't know, with what a 97-99 Pathy can do with the available mods out there, I don't see any other reason to continue to change it. I went out over a weekend with XPLORX4 and his Pathy, and it was rock solid. Great performer for what it is and how it was set up. Plus he's done some gnarly trails too.

At some point you need to decide what kind of truck you want, and what type of trail you want to run. If you are just looking for a truck to mod, I suggest a Jeep. The most after market support of any 4x4 vehicle.

Cargo space is difficult in a Pathy, perhaps you can add stuff to the roof and/or pack selectively?

A well thought out Pathy is an excellent vehicle for overlanding.

[bigreen505]

I was in the same position and bought a Trooper, though in hindsight I wish it were about a foot longer. The Trooper is the same exterior dimensions as the Xterra (a bit wider) with 90 cu. ft. of cargo space. I ruled out the FJZ80 mostly on fuel economy and the UJZ100 on size, cost and economy. If I had to do it again I would look very hard at a UZJ100. I can't say that I regret buying the Trooper at all, but I think I will be much happier after new tires, shocks, ball joints and tie-rods. They are not worn out, but perhaps capable of less than I expect.

To me the Pathfinder is a great vehicle for two, but no more.

[vengeful]

I am very familiar with Dean's Pathfinder. One very great difference is that he lives out west where salt and corrosion are not a concern.

I love my Pathfinder, and really don't want to sell it. My biggest complaints about it are its size, while great for trails, it's not really long enough for overland, and the fact that it's unibody with a car front suspension setup. The unibody bit is my biggest complaint, because it just doesn't seem to have the structural rigidity that a body-on-frame vehicle would have. And, as I've said before, I've already had to have the inner fenders/strut towers replaced once because one broke clean off, and the other was severely damaged. I feel that I need something a little bit more durable.

I drove a couple of 4Runners last night, and they were as comfortable, if not moreso, than my Pathfinder. Also, they have much greater rear leg room than the Pathfinder, which is also a plus for me, since I do carry passengers occasionally.

However, my biggest gripe is the complete absence of any semblance of aftermarket support. The largest lift available is 2", and that only allows you to run a 32" tire. I want to run 255/85/16s. The only locker available is the ARB, which I would run anyways. Differential gears are not available, because the front diff is reverse cut, and NISMO doesn't make gears for the High-Pinion R200A with reverse cut gears. I've already got the lowest gears possible for my truck. I'd like some 4.88s with the 33s. There are ZERO bumpers available from reputable companies. Kennesaw Mountain Accessories (KMA) does produce bumpers for them, but they've got a very spotty track record. Some poeple have had great luck with them, but many have received very poorly built products, so I simply don't trust them. I searched for 4 years to find a USED TJM for my Pathfinder. I dread the day that some yahoo in a Honda pulls out in front of me and I smash up the TJM and can't get another one.

R&P gears for the 4Runners are $275. They're $600 for the Nissans, and I can't even get them. Calmini 3.7:1 T-case gears for the Nissans are $1400, and it's just the gears. Marlin Crawler sells a complete doubler box, with a 2.28:1 stock low and a 4.7:1 double low for $1600, ready to run. The aftermarket support, and availabilty of inexpensive, high-quality aftermarket parts for the Toyotas is awesome.

I never thought I'd come to the point where I was seriously considering selling the Pathfinder, but here I am. When I originally bought the Pathfinder, it was between a Pathfinder and a 4Runner, but I couldn't find a 4Runner I liked in my price range at the time. I wanted an 01, but they were only a year old at that point, and were still close to $30,000, and my Pathfinder was $15k.

Guess I should probably shut up now though...LOL.

[ZooJunkie]

Well, not knowing what exactly you like to drive your Pathy in, there will always be compromises in the vehicles we purchase.


Back to the chassis bit. A unibody chassis is actually far superior to a chassis on ladder setup. The unibody chassis is more rigid and lighter than a similar chassis on ladder setup. The fact that you stressed and broken your suspension points in your Pathy suggests to me that you wheel your truck really hard. Plus you looking for some 33" tires also suggest to me that you plan on doing more rock crawling.

As for the salt and rusting, these unibodies are zinc coated to prevent rusting, however, that doesn't mean that some other parts aren't zinc coated.

I see your dilemma, and it sounds to me like you need a truck that will satisfy your urge for bigger tires and suspension travel, which this truck will not allow you to build because of poor after market support.

Dean's rear bumper was custom made by Blue Devil Design locally here. His front TJM, well, if it gets bent, he can always have it welded back together.

Ever considered an Isuzu Trooper? In relatively stock form this truck can take on 33" tires without an issue. Has lockers or standard LSD. Though lacking in after market armor, ARB makes a front bumper, rock sliders aren't hard to find, plus it is very spacious. More spacious than said 4runner.

[vengeful]

I wouldn't mind the unibody bit so much if the front suspension wasn't off a danged Sentra! LOL!

I do wheel my truck pretty hard, but not abusively. When I broke the strut mounts, I was in the Outer Banx and had been forced through a sink-hole by an inconsiderate Sheep herder.

I drive my truck through pretty much everything. I've wheeled in Arizona, Moab, Florida, NY, Mountains, Desert, Dirt, Rocks, Mud, Sand, you name it. The "hardcore rock crawling" doesn't really appeal to me, but I want to build a truck that will be able to get me through any obstacle I may come across while on expedition, including, mud, rocks, sand, snow, etc. 255/85R16s are a good sized expedition tire, in my opinion. Plenty of sidewall to protect your wheels from damage, and to absorb bumps at lower PSI, yet narrow enough to not hinder your steering or fuel economy too much.

If I were to keep the Pathfinder, I would tube the front end, and do a coilover swap, something that would not be necessary on a 4Runner, as they're already equipped with a frame, and coilovers. The rear suspension I'm looking at is made for Toyotas. There is simply nothing out there for my truck. My front bumper was discontinued 6 years ago. If I crash my truck, I'm SOL. Yeah, I could have it welded back together, but then I wouldn't feel as comfortable driving with it, since the integrity of it had already been compromised once. There's so much that *could* go wrong with the Pathfinder, that could be prevented with another vehicle. Maybe I'm not expressing myself as clearly as I should be, or maybe my reasons aren't exactly well-founded, but it just seems like it may be time to move on to something that will allow me to do what I want - that is all.

[vengeful]

As far as the Trooper goes, not really, no. I never really liked how boxy and tall they were, and it just doesn't fit the bill at this point. Same with a Montero or even a Land Rover. They're just too big and boxy. Even the Land Cruiser would be too big, but I like them so much that I'd consider it if the right deal came along.

[slomatt]

vengeful,

I've been debating the same issue for a while, here's where I'm at. My 96 Jeep ZJ has never been very reliable, and a few weekends ago it failed yet again while on a trip (ZooJunkie, I was the Jeep that "disappeared" on the way to Sourgrass).

After researching the available options and looking at trucks ranging from full size diesels to mid-80's imported diesel land cruisers I've pretty much narrowed it down to either a 3rd gen 4runner or a R50 Pathfinder.

My Pathfinder concerns are pretty much the same as yours, the lack of aftermarket support, front suspension design, and unibody. Coming from a uniframe Jeep I'm just not sold on the strength of the unibodies over time. And while I don't intend to run massive tires, the limit of 32" tires on the Pathy is a bit discouraging.

With that said, coincidentally I've been offroading with Dean (Mr. Pathfinder apparently) for several years and have always been very impressed with his truck. It's been through the Rubicon and all over Moab and the only breakage during those trips was a single front axle shaft that we'll just blame on some heckling Wrangler owners. :) Dean's truck drives very nicely on road and offroad and gets where it needs to go as long as the aftermarket fan isn't dead and overheating the engine (since replaced with the factory fan). He's strongly advocating for me to purchase a ~2000 Pathfinder but my eye keeps going back to the 4runner.

The 4runner has a lot of benefits: the aftermarket is strong, they are reliable and hold value well, a factory rear locker is available, the front suspension is relatively strong and has decent articulation, and they have good room inside. The problem I'm having is that 4runners with manual transmissions are rare and I really don't want an automatic in my truck.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this helps at all but figured I'd post my thoughts since I'm facing the same choice.

Here is some R50 eye-candy to counter-balance my 4runner comments above. :)

http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/rubicon2003Huy/IMG_0009
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/rubicon2003Huy/IMG_0044
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/tahoe20051001/IMG_6916
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/deervalley_20050723/IMG_5262
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/dusy20040917/IMG_3274
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/pardos20040816/IMG_2992

- Matt

[calamaridog]

Just thought I'd throw the Trooper idea out there since they are a relatively affordable used option.

Can't go wrong with a 4runner really.

I sometimes wish I'd have gotten one...

[vengeful]

I've been offroading with Dean (Mr. Pathfinder apparently)

Now Now Matt....everyone in the Pathfinder arena knows that I'm Mr. Pathfinder. :shakin: I wonder what it'll take to get Dean to register over here and stand up for himself? LOL. Paging Dean to ExPo...Dean to ExPo!

There are options for running larger tires on the R50. I know of at least 2 that are running 35s. However, those are with Homemade IFS Drop Bracket lifts, which I just don't trust. There's a guy in Texas, Keith, who has been running a drop bracket lift on his truck for several years, with no problems, but then again, he is a mechanical guy, and a welder by trade. The "other" IFS lifts were built by a kid in his garage in Colorado, and he has had MANY issues with the unibody structure, due to his lift. He's cracked it, and bent it on more than one occasion. The other 35'd R50, in NJ, hasn't had those problems, but also doesn't wheel as hard.

Basically, if you're looking to have a good, weekend warrior type truck, with excellent road manners, that wont let you down, unless your aftermarket fan craps the bed and causes your radiator to EXPLODE (read the full story over on YotaTech), then go with the R50. I think the 2000 and newer ones are classier and more modern looking than the 96-99, but the older ones look more rugged. Another option, is the Infiniti QX4, if you're looking for a more luxurious rig.

The reliability between the R50 and the 4Rnr are going to be pretty much the same. Each has small problem areas that need to be addressed. Cracking of exhaust manifolds, timing belt changes are imperative, and a few other very minor things on the R50s. Head gaskets and cooling system on the 4Runners.

The biggest difference in them is the fact that the Runner has a Frame and a truck based coilover front suspension, and the R50 in unibody and has a car based strut suspension. I believe that the 4Runner is a 4-Link, coil sprung rear suspension, and the R50 is a 5-link (for sure).

I think that if you're planning on running larger than a 32" tire, go with the 4Runner. If you're planning more than weekend getaways, go with the 4Runner. If you're just looking for a good rig to get you to the trails, bomb around for a couple days, and drive you back home, then the R50 is the way to go. With proper modifications, either one can tackle pretty much anything out there, except maybe Pritchett Canyon, unless you're SASed.

My reasoning for going to something a little more robust, is that when I do go on weekend trips, I am very hard on my truck. The Pathfinder has stood up to the test very well over time, but the wear and tear is starting to surface. I would not feel safe taking it on an extended expedition through very remote areas in other countries.

[vengeful]

Just thought I'd throw the Trooper idea out there since they are a relatively affordable used option.

Can't go wrong with a 4runner really.

I sometimes wish I'd have gotten one...

While I was doing research on the various Japanese SUVs, I had looked at the Troopers. They are a very robust platform to start with, and the Dana44 Rear Axle is appealing, due to the multitudes of options for it. However, with the Trooper, I'd be in the same aftermarket support boat as I'm currently in with the Pathfinder. The options just aren't there. Yes, there are more options for the Trooper than the Pathfinder (which baffles me, since the Trooper wasn't very popular in the off-road market), but there really isn't that much out there, and I'd rather not do a whole lot of custom work. For expedition work, bolt-on, off-the-shelf parts are better suited, because of their availabiity in the clutch.

[ZooJunkie]

vengeful,

I've been debating the same issue for a while, here's where I'm at. My 96 Jeep ZJ has never been very reliable, and a few weekends ago it failed yet again while on a trip (ZooJunkie, I was the Jeep that "disappeared" on the way to Sourgrass).

After researching the available options and looking at trucks ranging from full size diesels to mid-80's imported diesel land cruisers I've pretty much narrowed it down to either a 3rd gen 4runner or a R50 Pathfinder.

My Pathfinder concerns are pretty much the same as yours, the lack of aftermarket support, front suspension design, and unibody. Coming from a uniframe Jeep I'm just not sold on the strength of the unibodies over time. And while I don't intend to run massive tires, the limit of 32" tires on the Pathy is a bit discouraging.

With that said, coincidentally I've been offroading with Dean (Mr. Pathfinder apparently) for several years and have always been very impressed with his truck. It's been through the Rubicon and all over Moab and the only breakage during those trips was a single front axle shaft that we'll just blame on some heckling Wrangler owners. :) Dean's truck drives very nicely on road and offroad and gets where it needs to go as long as the aftermarket fan isn't dead and overheating the engine (since replaced with the factory fan). He's strongly advocating for me to purchase a ~2000 Pathfinder but my eye keeps going back to the 4runner.

The 4runner has a lot of benefits: the aftermarket is strong, they are reliable and hold value well, a factory rear locker is available, the front suspension is relatively strong and has decent articulation, and they have good room inside. The problem I'm having is that 4runners with manual transmissions are rare and I really don't want an automatic in my truck.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this helps at all but figured I'd post my thoughts since I'm facing the same choice.

Here is some R50 eye-candy to counter-balance my 4runner comments above. :)

http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/rubicon2003Huy/IMG_0009
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/rubicon2003Huy/IMG_0044
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/tahoe20051001/IMG_6916
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/deervalley_20050723/IMG_5262
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/dusy20040917/IMG_3274
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/pardos20040816/IMG_2992

- Matt
Hey Matt! Welcome to the site! Didn't know you were on here. Too bad your Jeep overheated that day! good thing is you missed out on the trashing cleaning we had to do at base camp. :P

[ZooJunkie]

Now Now Matt....everyone in the Pathfinder arena knows that I'm Mr. Pathfinder. :shakin: I wonder what it'll take to get Dean to register over here and stand up for himself? LOL. Paging Dean to ExPo...Dean to ExPo!

I'll tell him someone is talking smack about his truck. :) If he can get heckled into driving his truck through mud, I'm sure we can heckle him into joining the site. LOL

[vengeful]

Dean....in mud? Surely you're joking! I've never even seen his truck DIRTY, let alone MUDDY! LOL. I think he washes it while he's on the trail! :arabia:

[slomatt]

ZooJunkie,

I heard about and saw pictures of the huge amount of trash left on the trail, that was horrible. Big kudos to all of you for cleaning up!

After diagnosing and replacing a seized thermostat we decided that it was too late to catch up with you guys, so we went wine tasting in Murphy's instead. :)


vengeful,

I'll let you and Dean battle for the title of "Mr. Pathfinder". :)

I belive the headgasket issues you mentioned were with the older 3.0l engine in the 2nd gen, I have not heard of any such issues with the newer 3.4l in the 3rd gen.

I agree that the Pathy is a very good weekend warrior, but on trails of Rubicon difficulty or higher I would be concerned with it's capability and strength. This is not a dig at the Pathy, just a statement of what I feel to be it's reasonable limits. When we went through the Rubicon the R50 had no issues, but we all agreed that the experience was a tough one on both the drivers and the trucks.

(note: I don't mean to keep mentioning the Rubicon, it just is a useful trail difficulty measurement since it is so well known.)

Is there a write up of the Death Valley radiator experience on Yotatech? I must have missed that. :) A friend and I were about ready to drive down and rescue Dean until we got the call that he had made it out to Lone Pine under his own power.

I was trying to find some good muddy pictures for you, but could only come up with this one:
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/prairiecity_20050507/IMG_4289

- Matt

[vengeful]

I completely understand what you're getting at. I agree completely that the Pathfinder just doesn't feel as rugged or durable as some others out there.

Deans report starts at post# 35 http://www.yotatech.com/f100/death-valley-07-a-110835/index2.html

[Redline]

I'm biassed as I recently (6-months) purchased a new '06 4Runner. I'm liking the 4Runner a lot and think it might be a near perfect combination expedition/distance travel vehicle when I'm finished. One exception is that while I love the torque of the 4.7 V8, I would prefer a more economical turbo diesel V6. I do have 255/85R16s (Maxxis Bighorn MTs) on the stock wheels with only an OME suspension. I also have 32-in ATs for street only miles.

I bought the '06 because I like to buy new cars and it was a nice change from my '05 LJ Rubicon. It is a much nicer 'car' to drive everyday than the Jeep. I didn't want an Xterra either and didn't consider the Pathfinder because of the unibody, lack of aftermarket support, etc. I did consider but ruled out the new diesel Grand Cherokee (which was not available yet) because of feared reliability, unibody, and price. I would love to have diesel but they don't make what I want yet. If Jeep makes a diesel JK Rubicon I will probably buy one.

Against my 4th generation 4Runner and in favor of the 3rd Gen is: 3rd Gen is less expensive (used), has many more aftermarket options available at this time, it is narrower (good for trails), and it's about as tall stock as a lifted 4th Gen.

The height thing is important if you consider a 4th Gen 4Runner. Even if you don't want to build a rock-crawler, a little more height, particularly more height with less/no lift, is a potentially huge benefit. My '06 is going to be very set-up, capable, and stable. It may drag on a few things because of its limited height but the bumpers and BudBuilt skids will take care of this. From what I can see, the 3rd Gen 4Runner is a terrific platform. Find a clean used one with low miles and proper maintenance and start 4Runnin'.

James

[mike h]

vengeful,

You and I, among others, have proven that the R50 Pathfinder is a very capable rig. But like any vehicle, it has drawbacks, and it always gets down to what the owner wants to do with it...

You've outgrown the Pathfinder for all the reasons clearly stated in your opening thread. You've given the 'finder a great life, so pass it on to someone else who fits it better, and get whatever you want next.

My pathy performed flawlessly on the James Bay trip in March, and in May I did a 6000 mile, 25-day run from Maine to Moab, south to the Uncompahgre in Colorado, and back to Maine. Pathy performed fine... but it was too small for all our gear, and I wanted to go a few places I knew it wasn't capable of, and after (another) 3 weeks in it on and off the road, I decided I have outgrown it. I've had it 7 years, a personal record.

So, if everything goes as planned, I'm flying south in the next 10 days to pick up a very clean '96 FZJ80 from a mudder. Even though I have made posts questioning the pricing/value of the 80 series, for the kind of travel I'm doing, I just gotta spend a few years with an 80 LC to satisfy my curiousity. Maybe I'll keep it forever.

My Pathy will be cleaned and prepped for sale in July, and I'll be completely obsessed with learning everything about my new toy... and beginning a new build.

You should probably just find yourself an 80 as well and be done with it.

mike

[mtnbike28]

I know of a Land Cruiser FJ60 in Rochester for sale. That seems to meet all the wants, except "new" - just FYI

Jay

[vengeful]

Yeah, I know that one....it does meet all the requirements, except for the Southwestern (i.e. rust free) vehicle. LOL.

The Rochester winters have taken their toll on the Pathfinder, and there isn't a single bolt on the thing that can be taken out without heat and lots of PB blaster...if at all.:(

[vengeful]

Ok, realistically, it doesn't make any financial sense for me to sell the Pathfinder right now. I wouldn't be able to modify another vehicle to the extent of the Pathfinder for quite some time, even if I do sell it and get a screaming deal on another vehicle. I'd only be able to afford a higher-mileage unit, and I don't want to buy someone elses problems.

I think what I'm going to do is keep the Pathfinder for another year or so and see where we stand. Besides...I can't go to GONEmoab next year if I have a Yota! It's not GOTEmoab! LOL.

[JoshuaTest]

Ok, realistically, it doesn't make any financial sense for me to sell the Pathfinder right now. I wouldn't be able to modify another vehicle to the extent of the Pathfinder for quite some time, even if I do sell it and get a screaming deal on another vehicle. I'd only be able to afford a higher-mileage unit, and I don't want to buy someone elses problems.

I think what I'm going to do is keep the Pathfinder for another year or so and see where we stand. Besides...I can't go to GONEmoab next year if I have a Yota! It's not GOTEmoab! LOL.

So... your own problems over somebody else's huh? sounds about right...

I think you made the right choice... I think i've said before, unless you have the money to buy another rig, and mod it right away... DON'T DO IT...

The 4Runner, or even the Land Cruiser would be awesome rigs, and they would surely do what your looking to do without a problem, however there are still a couple trails in the NorthEast the pathy hasn't found yet... So lets do find them first, then upgrade once your done with school, and know where you will be.

However you could always continue the search for the right 4runner, then finance it... Keep the pathy for another year or so, then sell it to pay for mods on the 4runner when your ready... That means payments, but hell... your gonna have payments with any new rig you buy... unless you hit the lottery, or sell a HUGE business account for your boss who I'm sure is a AWESOME guy who probably wheels a sick Nissan himself....

[calamaridog]

Save some cash for modding the new rig when you do finally get it. Otherwise, you will be like me and do one thing per year, which is frustratingly slow.

[vapathy]

Dan its funny i have been thinking the same thing about my pathy here recently. I just cant get rid of it. I spent nothing on it really and it has been a good rig. I agree that it would be nice to have some more aftermarket support but i still dont think i could get rid of it. I needed getting a 87 runner for 300 bucks that will be made in to my full time wheeling rig. The pathy more of a family camping one. I agree with the lack of cargo room, went up to GWNF a few weekends ago and with me the old lady and 2 dogs we were slam full. I also have 2 kids that make it even tighter. On a side note if you do decide to ever get rid of it i would love to get that TJM off you.:rolleyes:

[vengeful]

TJM was spoken for before I even got it installed. :)